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There are major distros that are systemd free, and not only because systemd was removed from them, but because they never had it (Slackware)... or at least only have it as a non-required option (Gentoo).

Well according to Distro Watch Slackware rates 16 and Gentoo rates 36 on the list of page hits so they must be major distibutions.

Consider this: Slackware is the last of the original Linux distros still active, with updates, etc. It's the origin for numerous distros - including many other major distros. Its authors are some of the top and moist respected in the LInux community.

Gentoo is the first real major source-based distro, and the origin distro for numerous other distros, the most famous being ArchLinux.

Know your distro history before trying to downplay the role a distro has.

There are major distros that are systemd free, and not only because systemd was removed from them, but because they never had it (Slackware)... or at least only have it as a non-required option (Gentoo).

Well according to Distro Watch Slackware rates 16 and Gentoo rates 36 on the list of page hits so they must be major distibutions.

I want control of my f__king computer back.

Then install something else.

Still enslaved?

NEVER10!

The escape hatch to freedom is here!

Hmm, but has Devuan found any reasons why systemd is bad (Devuan's VUAs recommend this thread and this particular author in their interview with Distrowatch)?

I mean, sure, many Devuan users found these convincing, but I would prefer some fact-based discussions.

there is always a choice. there is always a path to escape.

one of many. http://cdimage.debian.org/debi...

You can also try the stable releases of Fedora . You can even choose what GUI you would like as the default.

Of course, you can also try one of the many distributions as described here .

If you are an avid gamer then you basically have two choices. 1) Have a Microsoft Operating System or 2) Run a Linux distribution and run a Microsoft OS in a virtual machine if your PC has enough power. There is a third choice and that is to dual boot but IMHO this is rather pointless since most people will only stick with the OS that they play games on.

If you are not willing to switch to a Mac or a Linux distribution then just put up with Microsoft Windows.

OEM Rescue Kit

This isn't the first time Apple Music has deleted a users' locally stored music files.

You ran proprietary software on a closed source OS from a vendor that operates sweatshops with suicide netting and, most importantly, has a track record for disrespecting user rights. While I tune up the worlds tinyest violin and get going on my rendition of the Free Software Song, why not take a look at http://distrowatch.com/ for some examples of operating systems that put you in the drivers seat, and https://osalt.com/ for software that doesnt trample your ability to rock out mellow folk sensation Roger Whittaker at four in the morning.

= Announcements:

https://tails.boum.org/news/ve...
https://twitter.com/Tails_live...
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid...

I think that the so beloved original start menu was much worse

Of course, the Start menu is complete shit, there is no sense of organization. It's a joy to go to Linux and find things tidy and nice like this.

I was of the same onion as you, and I installed Linux Mint MATE on an old laptop my mother in law had. She wanted to take it with her on a trip overseas. I figured linux would give it some extra kick and be extra stable for her. Initially she was happy and browsing around in it. Soon after she left on her trip, SOMETHING must have changed in the OS because the touchpad stopped responding as soon as she logged in and her desktop came up. Fortunately I had left the old windows partition and showed her how to dual boot, but it was a lesson that Linux is still only for people who know what they are doing. The solution for the failing mousepad? I had to manually install the gnome settings editor with apt-get, navigate to a setting that caused the desktop to interact with the mouse location and set it off. Then everything worked fine. IMHO, total bullshit issue.

My wife who is about as computer literate as a mouse, maintains her own Linux Mint touch screen computer. This was after she refused to use it any more on Windows 8.

I've probably done 30 laptops and 15 desktops, with Linux distros, including a Chromebook, and it's been at least 5 years since I had any issues with drivers - more the opposite, I've done dual boot systems where teh Windows side didn't support a device, like when I had a USB to serial converter setup on the Linux side, and it worked well, then when I went to set it up on the Windows side, it wouldn't recognize it. Going to the website for the device, I found that the converter was for an old Palm Pilot, and that it wasn't supported at all any more. Planned obsolescence, no doubt, since on Linux the old not supported in Windows adapter worked just as well as the New adapter I had to buy. That's just one example.

What I've found over time is that the biggest reason for Linux not working is when people try to enforce Windows on it. The same thing happens with OS X. And since OSX and Linux are blood brothers, maybe people familiar with Unix OSX can make the transition more easily.

Should I have gone with another distro? Perhaps something else would have been more stable, but a lot of them now are crap without 3d acceleration and I wanted something that was windows-like. MATE is based on gnome 2 so I thought it would be stable and no-nonsense.

Ive found that Linux Mint Cinnamon tends to keep people who have used Windows a lot happier.

Now you bring up the one thing about Linux that is both good and very bad. So many distros! While a geek such as myself can spend hours going through this site, http://distrowatch.com/ It can get confusing to people, It's like going to a grocery store with 273 brands of peanut butter.

But I see they now have a page with the major distros on it. http://distrowatch.com/dwres.p... That's a big help.

For most users, Linux Mint - and I especially like Cinnamon for them. For a slower computer, like a netbook, I like Lubuntu.

Now watch this. I'm going to be descended upon like crocodiles on a wildebeest, but for most people, I discourage FreeBSD. Let the feeding frenzy begin! I hope I don't have to go into the witness protection program. Again.

I was of the same onion as you, and I installed Linux Mint MATE on an old laptop my mother in law had. She wanted to take it with her on a trip overseas. I figured linux would give it some extra kick and be extra stable for her. Initially she was happy and browsing around in it. Soon after she left on her trip, SOMETHING must have changed in the OS because the touchpad stopped responding as soon as she logged in and her desktop came up. Fortunately I had left the old windows partition and showed her how to dual boot, but it was a lesson that Linux is still only for people who know what they are doing. The solution for the failing mousepad? I had to manually install the gnome settings editor with apt-get, navigate to a setting that caused the desktop to interact with the mouse location and set it off. Then everything worked fine. IMHO, total bullshit issue.

My wife who is about as computer literate as a mouse, maintains her own Linux Mint touch screen computer. This was after she refused to use it any more on Windows 8.

I've probably done 30 laptops and 15 desktops, with Linux distros, including a Chromebook, and it's been at least 5 years since I had any issues with drivers - more the opposite, I've done dual boot systems where teh Windows side didn't support a device, like when I had a USB to serial converter setup on the Linux side, and it worked well, then when I went to set it up on the Windows side, it wouldn't recognize it. Going to the website for the device, I found that the converter was for an old Palm Pilot, and that it wasn't supported at all any more. Planned obsolescence, no doubt, since on Linux the old not supported in Windows adapter worked just as well as the New adapter I had to buy. That's just one example.

What I've found over time is that the biggest reason for Linux not working is when people try to enforce Windows on it. The same thing happens with OS X. And since OSX and Linux are blood brothers, maybe people familiar with Unix OSX can make the transition more easily.

Should I have gone with another distro? Perhaps something else would have been more stable, but a lot of them now are crap without 3d acceleration and I wanted something that was windows-like. MATE is based on gnome 2 so I thought it would be stable and no-nonsense.

Ive found that Linux Mint Cinnamon tends to keep people who have used Windows a lot happier.

Now you bring up the one thing about Linux that is both good and very bad. So many distros! While a geek such as myself can spend hours going through this site, http://distrowatch.com/ It can get confusing to people, It's like going to a grocery store with 273 brands of peanut butter.

But I see they now have a page with the major distros on it. http://distrowatch.com/dwres.p... That's a big help.

For most users, Linux Mint - and I especially like Cinnamon for them. For a slower computer, like a netbook, I like Lubuntu.

Now watch this. I'm going to be descended upon like crocodiles on a wildebeest, but for most people, I discourage FreeBSD. Let the feeding frenzy begin! I hope I don't have to go into the witness protection program. Again.

They are OLPC users

Take a look at antiX Linux and MX Linux. They are both modern distros with fairly modern desktops and they don't use systemd.

Check out MX Linux and antiX Linux. They are not in the top 10 distros but they are solidly in the top 30. They're based on Debian but don't use systemd. They also have some pretty neat features and friendly communities.

> How about a "roll back drivers" or "system restore" when updates go wrong, something Windows has had since Win2K? The zealots can get pissy and downmod all they want but there is a reason that "the hairyfeet challenge" has lasted for 8 years with nobody passing

--I accept the hairyfeet challenge, and offer a quick google: OpenSuSE has had this feature since 2014; see:

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20141110#news

--From the article:
[[
However, perhaps the biggest advancement is the way openSUSE automatically takes snapshots of the Btrfs file system and allows the user to rollback to previous configurations by rebooting the machine and selecting an old snapshot from the boot menu.
]]

--FYI, I have been using a btrfs Root filesystem on Debian (Antix--64) for the past few months and it's been stable for me. I'm running stock repo kernel 4.x. Apart from that, I do a full system tar backup before doing *any* apt-get update, and log every package that is being changed...

--You're one of my Friends here on /. -- I imagine the SuSE forums might benefit from some of your input and ideas regarding system recovery ;-)

As a long time Linux user, I'm dumbfounded by how the Linux community has basically turned on itself over the past 5 years.

It's not Microsoft, nor SCO, nor Apple, nor any other external entity that's destroying the usefulness and practicality of Linux. It's the Linux community, as a whole, that's doing this!

Systemd is the obvious example of this. Never have we seen a piece of software so divide and devastate the Linux ecosystem.

Go here: http://distrowatch.com/

Then come back and blame this silly fake disaster on systemd.

[...] the only way to avoid it [systemd] is to either run old distros or some other OS entirely.

A third option is to use a newer distro that does not use systemd. I run a Gentoo system that does not use systemd. You can also get up-to-date Debian based distros such as antiX Linux which don't use systemd. I imagine these are not the only options.

# Tails is a live system that aims to preserve your privacy and anonymity.
It helps you to use the Internet anonymously and circumvent censorship almost
anywhere you go and on any computer but leaving no trace unless you ask it to
explicitly.

# It is a complete operating system designed to be used from a DVD, USB stick, or SD
card independently of the computer's original operating system. It is Free Software
and based on Debian GNU/Linux.

# Tails comes with several built-in applications pre-configured with security in
mind: web browser, instant messaging client, email client, office suite, image and
sound editor, etc. - https://tails.boum.org/about/i...

# Tails, The Amnesic Incognito Live System, version 1.5, is out.

= Announcements:
https://tails.boum.org/news/ve...
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...
https://mailman.boum.org/piper...
https://twitter.com/Tails_live...
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid...

= Tails Site:
https://tails.boum.org/

= Download:
https://tails.boum.org/downloa...

# Tails is a live system that aims to preserve your privacy and anonymity.
It helps you to use the Internet anonymously and circumvent censorship almost
anywhere you go and on any computer but leaving no trace unless you ask it to
explicitly.

# It is a complete operating system designed to be used from a DVD, USB stick, or SD
card independently of the computer's original operating system. It is Free Software
and based on Debian GNU/Linux.

# Tails comes with several built-in applications pre-configured with security in
mind: web browser, instant messaging client, email client, office suite, image and
sound editor, etc. - https://tails.boum.org/about/i...

# Tails, The Amnesic Incognito Live System, version 1.5, is out.

= Announcements:
https://tails.boum.org/news/ve...
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...
https://mailman.boum.org/piper...
https://twitter.com/Tails_live...
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid...

= Tails Site:
https://tails.boum.org/

= Download:
https://tails.boum.org/downloa...

# Tails is a live system that aims to preserve your privacy and anonymity.
It helps you to use the Internet anonymously and circumvent censorship almost
anywhere you go and on any computer but leaving no trace unless you ask it to
explicitly.

# It is a complete operating system designed to be used from a DVD, USB stick, or SD
card independently of the computer's original operating system. It is Free Software
and based on Debian GNU/Linux.

# Tails comes with several built-in applications pre-configured with security in
mind: web browser, instant messaging client, email client, office suite, image and
sound editor, etc. - https://tails.boum.org/about/i...

# Tails, The Amnesic Incognito Live System, version 1.5, is out.

= Announcements:
https://tails.boum.org/news/ve...
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...
https://mailman.boum.org/piper...
https://twitter.com/Tails_live...
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid...

= Tails Site:
https://tails.boum.org/

= Download:
https://tails.boum.org/downloa...

# Tails is a live system that aims to preserve your privacy and anonymity.
It helps you to use the Internet anonymously and circumvent censorship almost
anywhere you go and on any computer but leaving no trace unless you ask it to
explicitly.

# It is a complete operating system designed to be used from a DVD, USB stick, or SD
card independently of the computer's original operating system. It is Free Software
and based on Debian GNU/Linux.

# Tails comes with several built-in applications pre-configured with security in
mind: web browser, instant messaging client, email client, office suite, image and
sound editor, etc. - https://tails.boum.org/about/i...

# Tails, The Amnesic Incognito Live System, version 1.5, is out.

= Announcements:
https://tails.boum.org/news/ve...
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...
https://mailman.boum.org/piper...
https://twitter.com/Tails_live...
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid...

= Tails Site:
https://tails.boum.org/

= Download:
https://tails.boum.org/downloa...

According to
Distrowatch

Kali doesn't use systemd

distrowatch.com

Why Mint in particular, compared to the other distros?

Quite frankly, I wanted to deflect the drubbing I would get if I just linked to Apple's site; and so, since I hear a lot of people on Slashdot speak highly of Mint, especially for users that are coming to Linux for the first time, I figured it would be a kind of "neutral" distro to pick.

But, since Linux fanbois can't seem to pick which of the 100+ distros they want to get behind (one of the biggest reasons why Linux on the Desktop is a complete non-starter, IMHO), I guess I would have to point to someplace like here, instead.

So, to me, your question simply registers in my brain as "No good deed goes unpunished".

And it is so odd, because the last time I checked, I had a couple hundred choices: http://distrowatch.com/ or even the possibility of making my own linux distro, one so capable of "purity", that everything in it meant I put it there: http://www.linuxfromscratch.or...

Isn't it odd that a post like that gives links to the many possibilities of Linux, one that offers a cure for the apparent seething, white hot hatred that some folks have for systemd, gets "overrated" and "flamebait" mods?

So tell me, is Distrowatch flame bait? Is Linuxfromscratch flame bait?

If giving links to a solution is flame bait, it becomes very, very difficult to claim that some folks do not have a deep seated need to hate something, in this case systemd. There is a fix, but even mentioning the fix is bad among some folks? Cure yourselves "doctors".

You are only proving the authors point, that there is something deeply wrong with people who are at each others throats when there is absolutely no need to be.

Thanks for proving the article,

This is what happens when the users have NO WAY to influence direction, you get shit like Pulse and Systemd rammed down your throats.

Then he does an even better job of proving it. By doing the same old thing he claims to accuse others of doing.

And it is so odd, because the last time I checked, I had a couple hundred choices: http://distrowatch.com/ or even the possibility of making my own linux distro, one so capable of "purity", that everything in it meant I put it there: http://www.linuxfromscratch.or...

Which is all to say, with a couple hundred choices out there, it is pretty obvious that this whole hate thing is based on a need to hate, not actual reality.

When you are done ranting here, there are some guys down at the corner gas bitching about Ford Versus Chevy. You'll fit right in.

DistroWatch is running an an article entitled The systemd Project Forks the Linux Kernel.

Can anyone confirm if that story is true?

Some of the comments for that article are suggesting it may just be an April fool's joke that has come a few days early.

Has the systemd project actually forked the Linux kernel? Or is this some sort of a joke/hoax?

HOLY MOTHER OF FUCK, is this for real?

I've just been reading The systemd Project Forks the Linux Kernel from DistroWatch, which I presume is what you were referring to.

This isn't an April Fool's Day joke, is it? It is dated March 30, so I have to assume that it isn't.

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Systemd is utterly destroying the Linux community. It's doing this so much better than Microsoft or SCO could have ever done.

Well GNOME and Debian are two of the biggest OSS projects along with Red Hat being one of the biggest open source companies and they have all decided to integrate systemd. Not to mention that many developers have chosen to use PulseAudio despite it not being in any way mandatory.

The resistance to change is strong in some folk.

The problem is that his solutions to existing problems aren't perfect so sideline commenters get all caught up in the imperfections of the solution while the actual project maintainers and stakeholders integrate it and get stuff done.

I'm a Linux zealot first but Oh my gawd! a piece of Linux software that isn't perfect - something out of the gate that isn't 100 percent perfect! Honey, the neighbor's kids are all shitting on my lawn!

The virtue of open source is that you can fork projects if you don't like them and if a large swath of actual developers took issue with projects like systemd then it wouldn't be integrated into their projects

bam...

and/or the major projects that do integrate it would be forked.

Bam!

If you don't like it then don't use it or do something about it but for fuck sake stop whining about it, the fact that there has been so much vitriol yet so little progress on maintaining pre-systemd codebases proves that most of that vocal uproar comes from people incapable and/or unwilling to contribute anyway.

BAM!

And down they go.

http://distrowatch.com/ doesn't show FreeBSD as the top download, hell it's at number 20. Top distros? Mint, Ubuntu, Debian, OpenSuSe, and Fedora.

Perhaps the haters are all out making their own pure versions of Linux? It's not that hard.

http://www.linuxfromscratch.or...

So there we go! I'll not hold my breath though. The systemd bashers are an almost perfect example of the drones that believe their opinion is all they need to contribute.

DistroWatch

Please, the most insecure OS in the world is Linux (Damn Vulnerable Linux)

Linux installs any drivers needed during installation.

That's an overly broad sweeping generalization.\

That's because I didn't want to write a book. Yes, it's true that there are some really minimal distros that might harken back to 1999, and that you have to roll everything on your own, just like earlier days. And as for problems, have you researched which distort is applicable to your needs? When I wanted a replacement OS for my wife's Asus touch screen laptop, I did diligence, and Cinnamon Mint came up as the winner. I have had exactly one problem in that Dockey doesn't like to wake form sleep mode. But that's not an OS but a Docky problem. I could just be really lucky, but I haven't had an install problem in a long, long time.

If I hadn't done that due diligence, I suspect I would have had a lot to do to get it to work.

And since we are here, one of the biggest pluses of Linux is one of it's complications

At http://distrowatch.com/ They have at present 286 different distros they are keeping track of. And there are more out there. I'm burning a dvd .iso of Shackbox premium as I write this. But selecting the right version of Linux has become as complex as selecting a program.

So, you're against choice.

The pro-systemd people want to force their crap on everybody, and call anyone a hater who doesn't like having things forced on them.

The anti-systemd people want the freedom of choice - you know, one of the major things that set Linux apart from Windows,Ridiculous, and completely backward/

Most very respectfully you want to demand that systemd go away. You are the one who is anti-choice.

You speak of freedom of choice, then you demand no choice but what you determine to be acceptable.

As I noted before, you or I can make our own linux distro . And the unmatched power of Linux is that if we do not want systemd on it, we goddamned well do not have to have systemd on it. Actual choice, systemd, or not systemd - and not your screaming, bawling, and crying that you cannot control what others do. Then making the ridiculous claim that your restrictions are somehow a choice.

And now, I present to you the ultimate choice in Linux operating systems, in all it's glory:

http://www.linuxfromscratch.or...

And if you don't want to do your own build:

http://distrowatch.com/

I suggest clicking "Random" distribution first, just to get an idea of what all is out there. Many without systemd, many BSD variants. Take a look, It's a wonderland .

That is what freedom of choice is, not your demand that everything conform to your idea of what is right.

That's why this argument is so silly, it's like demanding that Ubuntu not be allowed to put out their weird GUI. I don't like it, so I don't use it.

Anyone have any direct experience with both Mint KDE and Fedora/KDE who can comment on how they compare? This might be worth checking out.

I gave Mint a spin on the boy's eeePc (i686) and wireless networking was a mess. Failed hardware detection, but only sometimes, failed dhcp, but only sometimes, failed shutdowns, but only sometimes..

Probably because Mint shouldn't have been the version installed.

I use Lubuntu on an eep netbook, and it works very well indeed. All functions supported.

Here is a fine site to go to. http://distrowatch.com/

It has various distros even for ridiculously low powered computers, like Legacy OS

Anyhow, Lubunto for the netbook, and now on to the original question

I had a Toshiba Satellite that I was running dual boot and Ubuntu on. Not caring for the interface, I gaver Mint a try. Never looked back, All functions were installed and went out and got all the drivers, on install, and even avoided any setup nonsense and just asked if I wanted to replace my Ubuntu Linux. Mint does provide support for touchscreens.

Mint's biggest shortcoming is that when it has a major upgrade, you need to reinstall. It's not an issue for me, as I store my personal files externally, but could be an issue with some.

disclaimer - it is possible to do a complete version upgrade without reinstalling the OS, but that's pretty advanced stuff.

For look and feel, a Windows user should be able to make the switch without too much problem to Mint - LUbuntu too for all that matter. I like it, My wife, who is a relative tyro, is really happy with it after refusing to work with W8-8.1.

And for reference, I use Pulseaudio, the apparent satan's spawn that systemd haters love to hate, without any issues at present, after an early issue with the program.

It's a very popular distro, but not the most popular one: Distrowatch consistently puts it behind Mint.

And the solution being to not use Microsoft Windows .. DistroWatch .. 'a very simple table comprising of 5 major distributions' ...

I believe its: dyne:bolic distro. http://distrowatch.com/table.p...
He also is one of the authors of MuSE aswell as FreeJ.

I've used MuSE for along time to connect up my keyboards to zynaddsubfx, doubling up octaves, switching one keyboard up +2, the other down 2, and my analogue synths. And to record midi when I do that (if the song is only going to be a midi song rather than using all the other hardware).

Good that he's the lead, he knows what he's doing.

Distrowatch shows that Trisquel 7.0 uses sysemd 204: http://distrowatch.com/table.p...

Id rather run straight linux.

As opposed to Lesbian Linux, Tinkerbell linux (derivative of Slutware Linux), Linux is Gay, myriad dual-booting scenarios (linux is Bi), and using linux to run Windows in a VM (Transgender linux).

Ubuntu 3D Desktop

Ubuntu Demo

Distro Watch

You fail to appreciate the difference between Linux and Bash (there's Linux with no Bash, there's Bash with no Linux). You fail to appreciate the fact that no, the most popular Linux distributions don't ship with Bash as the default shell. And yet you invest almost two thousand letters, and the Karma Bonus, doing the condescendent and attacking me personally. If you were trying to appear funny, in my opinion, you aren't. If you were trying to appear smart, then you had better get your facts right before attempting to.

"Microsoft has teamed up with HP to make an affordable Windows laptop to beat Google Chromebooks at their own game"

How would you go about replacing Windows 8.1 with a Linux distro?

It isn't even the first Linux distro to try this. Remember Dream Linux?.

SoylentNews.org
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  Distrowatch

Try http://distrowatch.com/search.... and select GNOME in the Desktop interface and Wayland in the Package search.

Could you be referring to this?

Well, but you could also compare for alternative KDE defaults: openSUSE kde theme, Netrunner KDE theme, Chakra Kde theme,Nitrux Theme, Rosa Theme... There's a lot of distros who doesn't ship a vanilla KDE theme... But if you want a more moder-looking KDE.. you could wait for the default theme (wip) in Plasma Next.. for example, for Dolphin

Since Mint has solidly dethroned it, who cares about Ubuntu?

Next time, don't link to a page that debunks your own argument.

The DistroWatch Page Hit Ranking statistics are a light-hearted way of measuring the popularity of Linux distributions and other free operating systems among the visitors of this website. They correlate neither to usage nor to quality and should not be used to measure the market share of distributions. They simply show the number of times a distribution page on DistroWatch.com was accessed each day, nothing more.

DistroWatch Page Hit Ranking

Since Mint has solidly dethroned it, who cares about Ubuntu?

http://distrowatch.com/dwres.p...

Too bad Canonical hasn't quite figured out trying to act like Microsoft in the OSS world doesn't work out very well.