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thats funnyI always went here or here for Enlightenment.

Until I decided to look it up ust there, I had no idea what bogo-MIPS was. Enlightenment can be found either here or here.

-- Michael

I just hope they don't add too much bloat when it comes to Aqua. Then again, what am I talking about? I use Enlightenment.

Also, indeed early in the development of Linux, Linus stated his preference for a monolithic kernel. However, it was simply an issue of simplicity. He didn't want to write all the micro-kernel complexity for a 'hobby'.

Despite this, we continue to see increased modularity in the Linux kernel. It seems this is the way things are going, which IMHO is a good thing.

If you want a really good looking and customizable desktop, run enlightenment by itself. Much nicer IMHO.

E is customizable in the way that emacs is. You know there's a way to do it, but damned if you know where/how to change it.

E is quick, but it's lacking in some serious respects. Namely in the themes arena. I'm not talking about the lack of themes (good lord! there's a lot), but the way themes are managed. If I want to change the color of my titlebar, I don't want to have open up some huge theme hunt around for the one line and change it from "SlateBlue" to "Salmon" or whatever. What E (and all themeable WMs in general) is a WYSIWYG theme editor, on the level of Windows's Contol_Panel|Display. Just a nice place where I can click on a title bar and say "make this putrid green" and WHALLA! It's done.

I also would like to have looks and feels seperated like how they are in Afterstep. (Which has config files that are pretty easy to understand). (In all honesty I haven't divulged down into the depths of E themes, just far enough to say, "This is too involved for such a trivial task. Fuck it.", so this may actually be the case in E, but if it is, it's not as obvious as it is in AS.)

The other feature I'd like to see introduced is more control over icons in E. 1. I'd like to be able to have icons uniconify to where they were iconified from, not always the active screen. 2. I wish the icons wouldn't constantly resort themselves. It gets damn confusing. (I icononify and uniconify alot. I can keep track of what's what if the icons would just stay put.) Finally I'd like to beable to turn that damn icon box off. I REALLY don't like icon boxes; they're too confining (which is coincifently why I don't like taskbars/lists and CDE style button-based pagers). I websurf in a VERY atypical fashion. As I read a page I open interesting links in a new window and continue to read the original page. I then group relavent icons together. For instance when I read /. I develop an inverted comb of icons. such as:

SSS
CCC
11
2

(where S = story, C = comments, # = newslink)

I can only work this way if icons go to the root window and can be moved anywhere I want. (forcing icons to stay in an icon corral on the root window is not acceptable. Infact it's just wierd.)

Because of these short commings I'm going to start playing with sawmill.

Sorry you had such horrible install problems. Linux isn't for everybody...no doubt, that's why it will never be popular.

actually Enlightenment is working towards becoming a desktop shell. not another desktop environment. I believe that the enlightenment website explains this in more depth

• Bluesteel
  
• Blueheart
  
• AbsoluteE
  
• Cyrus
  
• Brushed-Metal - Default E theme.
  

Maybee its just me but that stack of icons at the bottom of the screen reminds me alot of the panels in gnome or kde. And as far as anti alias support its coming along fine in the opensource world. And as far as high color icons and widgets that isn't an apple innovation, thats a tigert/mosfet/gtk/raster innovation. Not to mention all of the fine work of the creators and users of themes.org

Heretik's FinalE for E is clean, good looking and efficient - just what most of us want from a Window Manager theme. It gives E a nice slightly futuristic look similar to some themes in BlackBox.

You'll find the theme from http://e.themes.org/themes.phtml ?themeid=944708022

/Bergie

--

Enlightenment lets you assign so many shortcuts to so many things that I can effectively work without a mouse most of the day.

I love the choice that GNU/Linux provides. I love offering my friends these same choices when I introduce them to the GNU/Linux operating system. I have multiple sessions configured from gdm. Do you want to use E + GNOME, E standalone, KDE, KDE with E or Window Maker, GNOME + Sawmill, Window Maker standalone, etc...you get the idea. I love it.

The other benefit of having "competing" projects is forced improvement. KDE can borrow ideas from GNOME and vice versa. And the code is there for referrence. With time, you'll see a greater interoperability between KDE and GNOME, rather than a further splintering.

--Jamin Philip Gray
jamin@DoLinux.org

PS The two links I included are just examples; I don't mean to single those two out ;).

Alex Bischoff
---

I consider both statements to be personal opinions and devoid of universal truth.

I consider the Gnome system to be wonderful, UI wise, compared to Windows. I would attribute 80% of that to the included Enlightenment Window Manager, not to Gnome in general. I consider GTK+ to be eons ahead of MFC for making quick and dirty programs with that actually look good.

As a beginner, which would I prefer? Windows maybe ... for now. Which do I like for what I use my computer for? Gnome of course (I'm using it right now ...).

I don't think this poster has the right to claim that the other person was arrogant any more than the latter had the right to say that Gnome all-in-all makes Windows look crude. Windows has some points that shine in comparison to Gnome (the Gnome configuration panel sucks ... bad!, but Windows' themeability sucks worse ;-) ).

The fact that Miguel is doing something new is interesting ... and through the few E-mail contacts I've had with him as a programmer, I'm impressed with his abilities, so I'll be watching closely.

- Michael T. Babcock <homepage>

A solid, stable, pretty, glitzy GUI is needed first.
As many have mentioned before, see KDE or WindowMaker or Enlightenment w/ Gnome

The OS needs to be usable to a new user - on the same level as Windows.
Again, see above comment, and Corel Linux
Linux needs to be easy to install, easy to uninstall, able to sense hardware without the user needing to open the PC to read numbers off of chips.
Yet again, see Corel Linux
Linux needs to support the latest and greatest hardware, like USB (USB2), firewire, parallel port scanners, WinModems...
Again, see.... er.. wait. Damn, we don't have these. Linux needs to have GAMES!
See Linux Game Tome and Linux Games and Loki Games
End see

It's a simple typo ... Redhat 6.1 comes with 2.2.12 ... but I love your sig ;)

Gnome -- I use ... for the three panels I have running (autohiding) with clock / stats / etc.

I may get rid of them entirely at some point as Enlightenment's support for Epplets allows me to do the same things (and its root menus drop down the Gnome and KDE menus so I don't need little feet :).

- Michael T. Babcock <homepage>

THE GOOD

• LinuxCare's little bootable Linux recovery CD kicks ass. No bigger than a business card, it fits in the 3" diameter groove in CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drive trays and has the potential to save your butt when lilo eats itself. They also had some Linux stickers that now adorn the case of my 386... (Yes, it runs Linux.)
• IBM had a presence. Although certainly not the largest or flashiest booth in the show, Quake 3 on a rather large plasma display attracted lots of attention. Dual PII-400 Intellistation + Voodoo 3 3000 + large plasma display. Mmmmmm. Thanks to the guys there for letting me get some game time on that mammoth thang...
• O'Reilly also had a presence, and their trade show pricing kicks much booty. Picked up a few books for 20% off list and got a shirt to boot...
• Mad props to VA Linux Systems for not only having a cool booth and giving away lots of stuff but for supplying the machines used for public Internet access. Their Debian boxed set is pretty cool and sports Learning Debian GNU/Linux from O'Reilly. (Yes, I was one of the people who stood around in line for ten or fifteen minutes to win this...)
• Thanks to the Sun and Rave Systems folks for all the free stuff. Learn to play Quake 2 without cheating before next year's show... :-) (Now where's my complimentary Sparc 5?)

THE BAD

• None of the shirts I got fit. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. I'm 6-foot-3-inches tall and weigh 295 pounds. Show me the big-assed shirts!
• The IBM guys told me that the Showcase had a T-1 connection to the 'Net. I couldn't verify -- the packet loss and latency was horrible on the connection. I'm hoping this is only because lots of geeks were pounding on the connection like a pack of wild monkeys...
• Food choices were few, and lines were long. Within the Galleria, your choices were Subway, some cafe whose name I don't remember, Ruby Tuesday's, and Chick-Fil-A. If you were bold, you could go to the movie theater downstairs and buy a big tub of popcorn. The group I was with walked across the street to another mall and ate at Arby's. Yum... I think.

THE UGLY

• Where the hell were the Slackware people? I wanted Slackware apparel... Hmmph.
• Linux merchandise places came out of the woodworks to hock their goods. Yay capitalism...
• Don't eat at Shoney's. Our group waited over an hour for food before giving up and leaving.

THE REST

• The andover.net/freshmeat.net/slashdot.org booth was smack dab next to the linux.com booth. Taken together, it looked like one big congregation of slackers with laptops. All things considered, however, I wouldn't have minded flopping down on the couch for a rest after walking around for a few hours...
• I will seek revenge against the guy in the Debian shirt who shot me in the arm with a Nerf dart... muahahahaha
• The Debian folks had a Sun Ultra 5 running XaoS, Netscape, and some Tetris clone in separate windows. Just for kicks, I maximized the XaoS window. Can we say slideshow?
• I had nothing interesting enough to trade with the lady at the VA Linux booth, so I didn't get one of those nifty enlightenment shirts. Dammit.
• NetBSD was there. Go figure.

Overall, it was a pretty cool show, but I wish I didn't have the 2-1/2 hour drive. It was put on very professionally and appeared to be very well organized. I was only slightly disappointed that the show wasn't any bigger... The nifty canvas bag attendees got and the included CD made up for that, though.

Maybe you're using the wrong window manager. Try Enlightenment -- I use it, and I almost never touch my mouse.

------

Not much info on what's new & updated though, it's mainly just thanks to various people and organizations.

There is a list of features, but there's no annotation as to what is new.

http://enlightenment.org/rant.html

IMHO Enlightenment is a fairly innovative product that I have not seen a full featured alternative in any shape or form. Their dedication to wiping the slate clean and rewriting their code for efficiency is amazing.

But your argument does not shed any light on your theory that GPL stifles creativity. You're beginning to sound like Microsoft claiming that the DoJ is "restricting their freedom to innovate" by putting them on trial for monopoly-like business practices.

I personally don't see how any particular license could stifle creativity and I'll point to commercial games as an example.

/me goes back to playing Final Fantasy VIII and twiddling with E.

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Slashdot Load Testing (Continues) Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon August 30, 02:13 PM EDT
from the ain't-this-fun? dept.
Fixed so far:

• Dropped http MaxClients down to 75
• increased mysql max_connections to to 250

( Read More... | 190 of 190 comments )

Help Test Our New Server! Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon August 30, 12:51 PM EDT
from the load-testing-is-cool dept.
So here it is: A mirror of Slashdot (as of a week or so ago). It exists now for testing: So feel free to post comments and help test the new load balancer. For the curious, the new system has 3 http machines (P2s) and one mysql box (a dual P2) with a load balancer trying to keep everyone all equally busy. And its about time: the old setup has been really stressed out trying to keep up with everyone. Anyway, don't get to attached to any of your comments here, when we're satisfied that the new setup is stable, I'm gonna mirror over Slashdot and make the final switcheroo.

( Read More... | 335 of 335 comments )

Interview: Mandrake Answers Posted by Roblimo on Fri August 20, 12:00 PM EDT
from the x-leads-to-enlightenment dept.
Monday a whole bunch of people had questions for Mandrake, one of the heavies behind Enlightenment. Slashdot Moderators picked the best ones. We forwarded them, unedited, to Mandrake on Tuesday. His (excellent) answers appear below.

( Read More... | 11562 bytes in body | 9 of 9 comments )

Geeks in the Space: The Attack of 5 Posted by Hemos on Thu August 19, 04:10 AM EDT
from the more-stuff-to-listen-to dept.
Well, we've done it again. Yes, Geeks in Space, Episode 5 has been released. In it, we lament the lack of good news, talk about anti-matter, and the hiring of hacks by companies. You can also become...educated in my long-term plan for the hostile takeover of a certain Redmond-based company.

( Read More... | 14 of 17 comments )

Apple announces Darwin 0.3 Posted by Hemos on Thu August 19, 12:24 AM EDT
from the more-to-download dept.
J. FoxGlov writes "Macintouch reports that v0.3 of Darwin, the open-source foundation for Mac OS X Server is available on Apple's Public Source site. Apple Developer Connection members can get it on CD for $29. Check Public Source for more about the Darwin SDK and the new Darwin. "

( Read More... | 67 of 68 comments )

Microsoft's New Audio Format Cracked Posted by Hemos on Wed August 18, 05:23 PM EDT
from the secure-this-buddy dept.
Barcode (JPB) was one of the first to send us the word from Wired that the new audio format Microsoft introduced (Two days ago), supposed to be a secure format (resricting playback) has already been cracked. Dimension Music first carried the news-and what a name the crack has *grin*.

( Read More... | 238 of 240 comments )

Find your Star Wars Twin Posted by Hemos on Wed August 18, 05:16 PM EDT
from the what-freud-really-wanted-to-do dept.
The_Monk writes "Ever wanted to know your Star Wars twin? Now this incredibly important information can be verified. It placed me the likes of Astro Mech Droids, 'Tarkin, and R2-D2. " Ahem-as the lost twin of Lando (extraversion), I have a Cloud City I'd like to sell someone. But I'm about as agreeable as Boba, always a bonus.

( Read More... | 94 of 94 comments )

Now Police Can 'See' Through Walls Posted by Roblimo on Wed August 18, 12:40 PM EDT
from the move-along-there's-nothing-to-see-here dept.
Bram writes "Just found an article about another way to invade privacy." He's talking about hand-held radar systems police can use to detect breathing, beating hearts or other motion through walls and other obstacles. Sounds like a declassified version of the Ground Support Radar [GSR] units we used years ago in the Army. I can see why police would want them, and I can also see why Bram considers them a privacy threat. Depends on how they're used, I suppose.

( Read More... | 205 of 205 comments )

FreeType posts patent warning Posted by Hemos on Wed August 18, 11:53 AM EDT
from the i-want-my-verdonna dept.
Anonymous Coward writes "According to the the FreeType web page, there have been some new concerns raised about Apple's patents on TrueType. I hope this doesn't affect the planned TrueType support in XF86 4. " It appears that they are still checking into the issue, but I'd really like TrueType support. A lot. Let's hope Apple responds nicely.

( Read More... | 202 of 206 comments )

Microsoft to "publish code" to Instant Messenger Posted by Hemos on Wed August 18, 09:49 AM EDT
from the want-more-market-share dept.
VFVTHUNTER writes "According to this article at cnet, MS, in an attempt to gain a share of AOL's Instant Messenger Service Market, announced today it is going to publish the protocol to its own messenger service. " It's important to note it's NOT the source code, just the protocol.

( Read More... | 192 of 192 comments )

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Features The latest installment of Geeks in Space is up at The Sync. We talk about the Red Hat IPO, crazy naming schemes, and much more.

Perhaps you are seeking Jon Katz's series of articles related to recent events in Colorado. These articles include Voices from the Hellmouth, More Stories from the Hellmouth or The Price of Being Different,

With all the hype about the recent MindCraft Linux/NT benchmarks, you might be interested in reading ESR's Response to the Mindcraft Fiasco

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Don't kid yourself. Little is relevant, and nothing lasts forever. All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-99 Andover.Net. [ home | awards | supporters | rob's homepage | contribute story | older articles | Andover.Net | advertising | past polls | about | faq ]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Look up the code for, say, L0pht's AntiSniff or any number of Windows sniffer programs.

Admittedly, Microsoft uses a different set of nonstandard interfaces to access raw network data than *BSD or Linux does, but since there's no actual standard for this, what's the problem?

I find it hard to avoid getting the impresion that the vast number of people posting on this site who profess to know so much about programming, and are such rabid Linux advocates, program very little. My suspicion is that their experience of Linux is mainly confined to twiddling the icons in the execrable Enlightenment. And why they feel able to comment on Win32 programming, about which they evidently know little indeed, is quite beyond me.

As for the Windows tools vs Unix tools argument, well, Unix users are arrogant, and have little reason to be. I -- and many others -- prefer to be using a Unix system from day to day -- until I have to use Adobe Photoshop -- but this doesn't mean that Windows users deserve ridicule for it.

Rumour has it that Rasterman, of
Enlightenment fame who just left Red Hat, is
joining the team at VA. ;o

Ahh.. the migration begins. ;)

Hopefully Raster can find a job somewhere that will support his efforts more whole-heartedly.

No need for a resume, just a URL !

>That doesn't seem to be the mark of someone that won't accept input from others.

Actually, when I first heard about GNOME and Enlightentment, I went to the respective web sites to have a read. Gnome was okay, but on the enlightenment web site the following comments caught my eye:

"One thing you can be certain of is that it DOES work - the developers run it all day themselves - There is a reason it doesn't work for you - it is likely something on your system."
and
"Please make sure you also have a stable Xserver - Enlightenment can push X hard - often X breaks. When your server goes down - your server is at fault."

Those two sentences gave me the distinct *impression* that the authors didn't really care about the end users, "it works for us, if it doesn't work for you, it's your fault, not ours"

Of course, with any software, it is always possible to be a user configuration problem, and nothing to do with 'E', but the attitude that came across in those sentences would leave me very reluctant to even attempt to report a problem.

So before he throws too many stones about redhat believing users don't really count, he should check if he's living in a glass house.

--

The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.