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I have tried most of them at one time. ASP Linux, Caldera, SuSE, Immunix, Lycoris, Vector, Debian, Astaro, all have brought a little something unique to the table.

But you havn't tried doubling your speed I see.

Why am I telling it? I think Mac OS (including Mac OS X) users should use the same formula as was driving users from PC to Mac - "Think different, think Apple!", but now with a small change: "Think different, think Linux/PPC". Mac/PPC world should not be and is not limited by the dictated choice of the sector monopolist (Apple). And Linux is doing the same great job is it's doing on the PC sector - it's giving the choice for people. The choice of OS.

Seriosly, think about it. What kind of choice Mac gives to people? To spend another $1K for more expensive hardware and then to stick with Mac OS after discovering lots of Mac OS (even OS X) problems? With Linux/PPC people can buy Mac/PPC and use same skills as they have with Linux/x86.

I think that Apple, instead of porting of Mac OS X into PC/x86, should officially support (and contribute!) Linux/PPC. Eventually Apple should either port Aqua to Linux/X11 or to give up Mac OS at all.

Exactly!!

Just slap Gentoo Linux on the system and you will be using every MHz you got to create the ultimate operating sytem.

I personally just have a 1.2GHz with 512 SDRAM and I am severely wanting to upgrade right now - but I think I am going to wait until next summer so I can get a Hammer... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 64-bit Linux! Delicious!

Derek

The link to its ftp server seems to be missing...

If you want some working linux distro in a floppy you may look at Tom's. It's my favourite, it helps me install Gentoo Linux on some boxes cannot boot from CDROM.

Besides, you can find list of Linux floppy/CD distros here

I don't care if they make an 'easy' version of Linux that novices can use, provided we always have the distros where we can go in and make everything work exactly how we want (eg. gentoo). The whole usability/prettyness thing isn't for everyone, and I think these days a lot of people are lost in trying to add these things to their OSes while leaving more important things undone.

Clue: You're welcome.

Our company seriously considers Gentoo as it helps to build a Linux distro (or two) customized for specific corporate needs. Our research shows that with RPM or DEB we'd spend more resources on creating and supporting own distros.

Our company seriously considers Gentoo as it helps to build a Linux distro (or two) customized for specific corporate needs. Our research shows that with RPM or DEB we'd spend more resources on creating and supporting own distros.

Here is a discussion of LSB compliance and Gentoo on the Gentoo forums. In short, Gentoo won't be LSB certified, but it will "likely maintain the 'spirit' of LSB standards."

I think the RPM requirement and probably the requirement to maintain two separate init-script implementations would be undesirable for most Gentoo users.

can anyone recommend any helpful Gentoo-related IRC channels on any irc network? I mean, the kind of channel where if you ask for help and their response is "read the documentation", they're willing to actually tell you sometimes where the documentation in question is :)

In true /. tradition, I will give you exactly what you didn't ask for. Go to forums.gentoo.org and ask them. Most helpful group of s.o.bs I've ever come across. I know you're looking for an IRC channel, but that forum is almost like IRC... you get answered just as quick sometimes. Besides, they could probably point you to a good channel (I think they mostly hang around in whatever general channel is listed on the gentoo front page).

I've been using GCC 3.2_pre on a Gentoo Linux PIII laptop for about a month. Everything seems to work just fine.

That is, gcc 3.2 is the ONLY gcc on this computer. So the ABI interop issue isn't a problem, I suppose.

Gentoo is a species of small, fast penguin.

Actually, my current best DVD player is Mplayer and Linux running on my Toshiba Satellite DVD laptop.

I use Gentoo Linux with all the performance patches in the kernel (low-latency, pre-empt). Combine this with the fact that all of my libraries/apps/tools are built specifically for my hardware, and I have a blazing system. I use the latest XFree86 to support my laptop's video hw accel. Then, I use Mplayer from the CLI (tho, there are some fancy GUIs for those who prefer the stuff). Since the laptop has a TV out, I can plug it into my home entertainment system.

The end result is a DVD player that allows me to skip all ads/warnings/etc, and watch what I want when I want. Plus, since everything is so optimized for my hardware (it helps that everything on the laptop is 100% supported ;-) I actually get DVD playback as good as anything else I've tried (I have a PS2 and used to own a dedicated DVD player). I was even shocked to discover that with all this set up, DVD playing under Linux actually /can/ outperform Win32 on the same box (don't flame me, it's really true.. and I was as surprised as you are ;-)

Have a look at the Portage Manual to see how their ports system works. It does smoke FreeBSD's make install.

Gentoo Linux has a ports system that smokes BSD from a design standpoint, but it's still a little buggy at the moment. It's really cool to log into a freshly minimally installed Gentoo box as root and type "emerge gnome" or some such high level thing and watch it eat your processor for hours on end, compiling every dependency from scratch off the original tarballs from the net.

gentoo-sources-2.4.19-r7 is based on a kernel prepatch, not the kernel that was released today.

However, an updated vanilla-sources ebuild has been in the Gentoo CVS repository for 25 minutes and should make it to the mirrors shortly, if it hasn't already. Then, you can grab the new source tree by typing "emerge vanilla-sources"; or, if you're already using it, emerge -u will fetch the new copy.

• Gentoo mirrors the source tarball at ibiblio and elsewhere, the current ssh being 3.4p1
• The MD5sum for the Gentoo ebuild is correct
• The mirrored tarball is also correct
• I've had no trouble installing the current openssh over the last several days
• I have personally verified the md5sums on each machine, not one of them contained the trojaned version, confirming that Gentoo's ebuild system did in fact correctly check the md5sum, had the correct md5sum, and had the correct source tarball.

Actually, I was worried already about the way gentoo might be heading. See this proposal which seems to make a lot of people enthusiastic. It talks about a system where "everyone" can contribute with packages/ebuilds and there is a voting system that determines whether this package is tagged new, or approved or whatever. There is a thread on the Debian mailing list about it starting here.

Richard

End result: no one in Gentoo has been able to compile/emerge openssh for the last few days.

Which is good :-)

you could dump debian and use gentoo

While we're plugging things, I'd add that Source Mage definitely does a decent job of avoiding the addition of cruft in a way similar to Debian's. Every time an application ("spell") is installed ("casted"), Source Mage tracks all the installed files. If you want to get rid of a program, just "dispel" it and all the files will be removed. You only can possibly run into problems if you modify these files (Source Mage has an option to either delete or keep modified files...neither is ideal though), which generally does not happen except possibly if they install something to /etc/. Furthermore, you can "gaze alien" to get a list of all the files that are not being tracked by Source Mage, so that you can try to manually remove any cruft that managed to sneak in. Finally, Source Mage strictly enforces the LSB standards, and casting will never put anything in /usr/local/, so generally things that you install manually that can potentially add cruft have a good chance of being isolated in there.

Finally, I'd assume that most of the above is also true of Gentoo, though I can't say I know from personal experience.

For source-based packages, and in response to the point about Gentoo:

Portage is the source-based build and package management system that forms the core of the Gentoo distribution.

It does, indeed, allow fine-grained control over dependancies and build options. You can set global environment variables that tell Portage to download and build the requested package with ./configure flags that will compile a binary with just the features you wish.

USE="slang readline gpm berkdb gdbm pam ssl tk lm_sensors ldap sdl gtk mmx mitshm guile 3dnow tcl ogg libg++ directfb snmp gnome X opengl pdflib gpg -nls -kde -qt -esd -motif -alsa"

The .ebuild scripts are kept in a tree at /usr/portage. emerge uses the USE environment variables with the .ebuild scripts to download the source file (and download and build any dependancies), then runs ./configure with all of the flags set according to the USE variables, with no extraneous options. Then emerge runs make; make install (with your favorite and optimized GCC flags for system arch) into a temp directory, then properly manages the system installation of the resulting binary package.. Viola! Instant perfect packge installed.

You can also do "USE="-gnome -gtk; emerge foo" to override the global USE options for that one package.

Of course, package removal, dependancy handling, package searching, local modifications of the .ebuild scripts, multiple versions of core packages, many versions of patched kernel trees (gentoo, security, plain, mjc, redhat, mandrake, etc.)

Absolutely phenomenal.

For source-based packages, and in response to the point about Gentoo:

Portage is the source-based build and package management system that forms the core of the Gentoo distribution.

It does, indeed, allow fine-grained control over dependancies and build options. You can set global environment variables that tell Portage to download and build the requested package with ./configure flags that will compile a binary with just the features you wish.

USE="slang readline gpm berkdb gdbm pam ssl tk lm_sensors ldap sdl gtk mmx mitshm guile 3dnow tcl ogg libg++ directfb snmp gnome X opengl pdflib gpg -nls -kde -qt -esd -motif -alsa"

The .ebuild scripts are kept in a tree at /usr/portage. emerge uses the USE environment variables with the .ebuild scripts to download the source file (and download and build any dependancies), then runs ./configure with all of the flags set according to the USE variables, with no extraneous options. Then emerge runs make; make install (with your favorite and optimized GCC flags for system arch) into a temp directory, then properly manages the system installation of the resulting binary package.. Viola! Instant perfect packge installed.

You can also do "USE="-gnome -gtk; emerge foo" to override the global USE options for that one package.

Of course, package removal, dependancy handling, package searching, local modifications of the .ebuild scripts, multiple versions of core packages, many versions of patched kernel trees (gentoo, security, plain, mjc, redhat, mandrake, etc.)

Absolutely phenomenal.

Sometimes I see portage (gentoo) hitting ibiblio for source files. Some things never change...

It's called gentoo.

Welcome to gentoo.org.

• The compiler can't compile a program due to the source not being compatible with the new GCC.
• Commercial binaries are not compatible with libraries compiled with the new GCC. This affects things such as Mozilla plugins (Flash, Acrobat).

emerge foo

It's so close to being the perfect distro, yet at the same time so far :-\

Maybe you should try Gentoo. You won't be disappointed.

Debian has long been one of my favorite Linux distributions. It's nice to see it get some coverage from mainstream Linux media (other than Taco's postings).

However, I've recently begun to be put off by Debian's pace of accepting newer desktop technology. Yes, Debian is a truly free Linux distribution, with a great social contract. But I'm wondering if that's now starting to affect the quality of the distribution. Because it's a volunteer effort, packages updates are slow to come for new versions. The maintainers that do keep their packages updated regularly are often held back by other maintainers of depended packages. This makes it very frustrating for the users who just want to be able to run KDE3 (for instance). Potato is now several years old, but it continues to be the stable release. I can't even consider running Potato on my servers, because older packages are holding back newer, exciting features, such as winbind or iptables.

I will always love Debian, and will probably continue running Woody on my servers. However, I've switched my desktop over to Gentoo, and I haven't looked back. I'm still running a truly free, volunteer Linux distribution, but at least I'm not held captive by slow package maintainers.

http://www.debian.org go here and try it!

As a Linux user wanting to spread The Word, I tried to get my parents interested in Linux and Open Source Software. I showed them Mandrake - all the cute little icons and the cool games and screensavers. Since they dont do much other than web-surfing (mainly reading email thru a web interface), it seemed like a natural choice.

Then, I made the mistake of showing my mother a Gentoo Linux install - a screenfull of bizzare and verbose gcc flags scrolling across a text console. She became frightened and intimidated. I tried to explain to her that all I did was type 2 words, "emerge gnome", and that it was nothing to be scared of - and I tried to explain the process. Now, shes afraid to try Linux - and everyone I try to recommend Linux to gets scared off by her proclamations of how "difficult" it is.

*sigh* Oh well.....who was it that said "GUIs are like diapers - everyone grows out of them eventually".

I believe what you're looking for is called gentoo.

Sure Warez Dude!

Gentoo
Source Mage
Debian
Freshmeat - More Free Wares than you can shake a stick at.

Course, in the world of Free Software we don't need to write wares with a Z, 'cuase it's already free. ;-)

linux based gateway and firewall running on an former desktop

linux on my hp laptop

dual monitor windows 2k machine I have to run 2k on for work--primary desktop

xfree cygwin on the 2k desktop that remotes to both the gateway (rarely) and the laptop (always up)

this way, I've got my linux desktop (all linux in this house is gentoo), i can still run windows apps if necessary, and all is right with the world...

You can also try Gentoo Linux if you have enough bandwidth. It downloads and compiles the program (with emerge 'app') and dependencies from source, so it is fully optimized for your system. There isn't any dependency hell associated with it (unless you decide to 'emerge unmerge glibc' or something)

LINK CORRECTION ... [debian.org] ... should be ... [slackware.com]

heh!

But of course, that should actually read:

I'll just stick to the best distributions and watch the fun from afar

[grin]

Seriously, though, it is this choice that allows you to use and enjoy slackware, and me to use and enjoy Source Mage and Gentoo, others to use and enjoy Debian, Red Hat, Mandrake, and so on, that makes the GNU/Linux community, and the Free Software community in general, so dynamic and so productive.

It is this choice the efforts like UL are trying to undermine, by promoting the myth that commercial and proprietary software vendors should (or need to) package their wares up for one or two reference distributions, rather than packaging them up in a distribution-agnostic manner as Blender, VMWare, Id, and Loki have done. This myth may serve the interests of the distribution promoters in question (in this case, UL), but it is a disservice to the GNU/Linux community as a whole by creating unneeded incompatabilities with other distributions and excercizing some degree of coercion for people to adopt the reference distribution instead. What is more, as other binary releases have proven, it is absolutly unnecessary.

It behooves us all, slackware, Debian, Gentoo, Mandrake, and Source Mage enthusiasts alike, to stand up and make sure the word gets out to commercial vendors that they can, and should, package their software in a distribution-agnostic manner so that they can target their entire marketplace, and not just a portion thereof, by packaging their software in standard tarballs, documenting precisely which versions of which dynamically linked libraries their software requires, and providing a statically linked binary-of-last-resort in parallel that will run regardless (this is important as distros mature and the old version of the software remains desirable anyway, so it not only allows any distro access to the software, it also provides insurance that the software will run on most any GNU/Linux distro 5 years hence, or even longer, long after the state of the art has moved a great deal further along).

I'll just stick to the best distribution [debian.org] and watch the fun from afar

should be

I'll just stick to the best distribution [slackware.com] and watch the fun from afar

should be

I'll just stick to the best distribution and watch the fun from afar

Best distro eh? Thats just *begging* to begin a flame war!

Well, yes, considering the best distros can be found here and here.

Personally I like the idea of United Linux. There's no reason that all Linux venders can't use the same base for rpm compatibility, etc. It'll hapen one way or another. Do you want one company to control the standards, or a shared effort?

I think the idea of UL is horribly flawed (and rather arrogant on its part), and the underlying premise of your reasoning for supporting UL equally flawed.

It isn't necessary to have One True packaging scheme, or One True distro to which all must maintain binary compatability, in order to effectively release binaries.

It has already been demonstrated by the folks at Blender, VMWare, Id, Loki, and others that it is quite possible to release binaries that are distribution agnostic. These real world examples, all of which install and run just fine on my Source Mage and Gentoo boxes, as well as my Debian, Mandrake, and Suse boxes, exist despite naysayers saying it isn't possible, and claiming that UL, or UL+Red Hat, bring a much needed cohesion to GNU/Linux.

Nonsense. It is an effort to impose a proprietary embrace-and-extended standard on a community that is doing just fine with consensual standards where they make sense, and a wide open, free and fair marktetplace that encourages choice everywhere else.

Telling commercial vendors that they should package their wares up as RPMs aimed at one (or two) distributions, when it is quite possible, and vastly more desirable, to package them up in standard tar.bz2 or tar.gz format along with a README listing the required libraries+versions, as well as a statically linked "last resort" fallback binary in parallel with the dynamically linked binary and thereby make them compatible with almost every distribution out there, is a terrible disservice to both the Linux community at large, and the vendors themselves who are being misled and excluding a big chunk of their target market.

This nonsense only serves the interests of the purveyors of UL, at the expense of virtually everyone else, and at the cost of our freedom of choice as GNU/Linux users. There is IMHO absolutely nothing good about this whatsoever, regardless of what your favorite distro happens to be, and even though I am not a Mandrake fan per se, I applaud them for their courage in standing up to this nonsense.

This, and some other advantages of compiling from source, make this distro much faster than any other I've tried.

The install process is definitely not for the inexperienced, so your point about precompiled distros still applies, but once it is installed, it is very easy to administrate, and one of the first to get new security packages (I woke up after OpenSSH 3.4 was released and typed 'emerge rsync openssh' and it was installed).

Sorry to come across as yet another offtopic smug evangelising gentoo user... I guess I am :P</rant>

Why sit around and wait for somebody else to compile the images for you? Use a source based disto dammit, one that grabs the source to your system and then compiles it. As other people commented before, most linux apps are allready 64bit ready. Because most needs to be compileable on MIPS/ALPHA/SPARC platforms.

GCC(and binutils) supports compiling to x86-64 , this is still experimental though. But searching/looking abit in the mailinglist archives @ x86-64.org show that stuff like qt allready are comiling fine, only needing a wee-change in the makefile(Link).I think thats quite impressive, and im willing to bet good money that GCC has production class x86-64 support by the time the processor is actually available to buy.

So, armed with gcc and a version of Gentoo, Linux From Scratch or any other sourcebased disto that supports compiling the entire system from scratch. You will beable to create/compile your very own system, which can be WAY more optimized that anything a vendor does(i cant really see how its possible for a precompiled kernel images cant be optimized to a system).

The the only bad thing about thiese kinda of disto s is that big large packages as x/gnome/openoffice/what-ever takes for ever to compile. But on 64bit processor, who cares =)

And since the car sells for 1/2 the price of other cars, people will flock to it.

Embrace, Extend, Litigate.
-
www.

Yup. Here's my answer.

I really like the minimal install that slackware comes with, but I also love the debian package system or the bsd package system. If you want both try gentoo.

Try Gentoo! It raawks! :))

Check the forums or the mail archives.

Check the forums or the mail archives.

I'm sorry, but you're completely mistaken. Not only is it freeware, but they make it quite easy to download and use for free.

Check out Gentoo's web site or the x86 Installation Instructions, which tell you where to download ISO images and how to install them. :)

I'm sorry, but you're completely mistaken. Not only is it freeware, but they make it quite easy to download and use for free.

Check out Gentoo's web site or the x86 Installation Instructions, which tell you where to download ISO images and how to install them. :)

Instrustions for network install of gentoo.