I haven't watched that many DVDs on the PS2 (since, i dont have one:-P) but the few I've seen was pretty decent, eventhough i still think my own trusty Pioneer player does a better job though. But to be fair, i don't think the difference are large enough for anybody but enthusiasts to care. And im guessing its going to be like that with Bluray too, the PS3 player probably wont be the best of the bunch (its more likely it will live in the other end of the spectrum) but I doubt that will stop people from buying it as a bluray player (at least untill budget movie-only players gets released).
Maybe not the enthusiast which just got a mint 1080p HDTV, but people who have bought HDTVs because:
a. They're flat and pretty b. They needed a new TV and the salesman said HDTV was the future
Probably wont mind slackin' a little on player quality, if the are in for a $500+ discount.
I mean, look at popularity of the $35-$40 dvd players (most of which are relatively "horrible"), a lot of people don't seem to mind. And lets not get started on PC based software players, which are pure and utterly crap, i just want to comment, it seem like a lot of people doesn't mind:-)
It would be difficult to sell PS3 initially as anything other than a game machine
That's a bold statement if i ever saw one. The PS3 vill probably be priced O($500), and judging from what I've read about the upcoming first generation Bluray movie players, they aren't going to be cheap. Pioneer's have a $1800 player set to debut around march, and judging from this interview http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/ces2006/par sonsinterview.html it doesn't seem like they are in a rush to get out budget models because they claim early adaptors want über gear(they even claim sony's early $1000 DVD players outsold their $500 players).
anyhoo, back to the subject. I'm willing to bet good money that a ½-decent salesman will be able to sell a 500$ PS3 to people with HDTVs who want a HD alternative to their regular DVDs if the alternative movie-only players are x2 the price.
I'm no law student, but according to a lawstudent friend of mine there's actually a huge difference(we've debated the fair use subject again and again).
I mean, because of their new 3D input device, the gameplay will be vastly different . Like, in nintendo's teaser video where you saw a dude using it to control a sword, as if he was holding the sword in his own hand swinging away.
So even if Fedora's directory server doesn't offer any console tools (i dont know if it does), it won't be any problem making scripts manipulating its data. Take a look at this example on howto remove a record, its from the python-ldap site, and it isn't exactly overly-complex to use from the looks of it:-)
Most of the people in my dorm are willing to play good games, regardless of graphics, voice acting, etc.A few of us have Half-Life 2, and there's a few xboxes with Halo and Halo 2, but we can still get a few people playing Quake 3, because we like the pace of the game and the fact that corpses explode into a giant cloud of fine bloody mist.
But Quake 3 is not exactly a indie game(its just free), and you'll be hard pressed finding a indie title of its overall quality.
Yes, if you re-made Doom, it's nowhere near Doom 3. But most gamers wouldn't mind going back to Half-Life graphics if there was gameplay, plot, etc to back it up.
your right, nobody would have problems going back to halflife quality graphics. But the indie games I've seen, like the ones from garage games etc, isn't even at that level. Thats what I was trying to say with my post, the difference is still to big. The difference are nowhere near as big, because a camera is bacially a camera.
My favorite movie came at the end called "Always Greener," a movie filmed by teenagers (S.M.H Productions) from Fairfield, Iowa. Think of "American Pie" light - without the pie (thank God). A web-based cologne merchant goes too far with his marketing campaign and local students do everything in their power to put him out of business. The movie surprisingly is well put together. A budget of about $3,000 and 3 months of filming allowed these filmmakers to walk away with 6 awards at this festival - including "Best Narrative Feature." Every character was fun to watch and I am very eager to see their next project.
I'm aware of the fact that movies with "low quality" visuals can do quite well, it was kinda part of the point I was trying to make. The whole start of my post, kinda stressed that (with the clerks example(aka. the movie made by the guy in the video store), which won quite a few awards too.. including one at cannes)
I'm also aware that the story pretty much makes or breaks a movie, BUT the difference in visual quality in home-recorded/16mm-film vs. 32mm-film is no where near the difference u seen between indie games and games by bigger developers. The actors in movies, still look like actors. The "actor" in a tripple A title today is a lean mean 8000polygon guy, in the indie verion of the game he's a 16-coloured block sprite.
And while I do agree that gameplay and story is the most important factor, I simply just don't alot of people who wanna pay for something that looks like it should run on a Amiga 500.
And if you need further proof that graphics don't matter, try Nexus (nexustk.com), which despite a tiny team and 2D side-scrolling graphics, manages to be one of the more interesting MMOs I've played.
Sorry for being forward, but how does that "prove" anything? Yeah, its a indie game, which u like. If you want to convince me that graphic really doesn't matter. Then link the computergame counterpart of Clerks, Blair witch or whatever. A underdog production that because international hits.
What kinda chance does a guy working in a video store have creating a successful movie with a budget of 30K dollars, filmed by amateurs, acted out by amateurs(or Z-list actors) and filmed on old shitty cameras that make it look like barf. Pretty slim..
still it happens, and its not even THAT rare in the movie industry.
I think eventually, the same will happen with games. The problem today, seems to be that graphics are still very though to make relatively good looking. The difference between the indie productions and the big software houses is simply too big still.
This will change in the future though, sometime 3D scanners and other appliances will make it possible for hobbyist/amateurs to produce graphics that can be accepted by gamers. Not anything state of the art, just good enough to be accepted.
Just like movie viewers can accept less quality in indie movie productions. The problem ATM is simply the difference is to big, too compare it with the movie business it would be like if the independent movie productions was a slide-show of pictures with text underneath them.
Isn't this a kinda pointless debate? There will always be room for both the artistic style and the photo realistic one. Visuals are about mood, of-course there will be room for other moods than the ones that photo realistic rendering offer.
The technology for creating photo realistic movies for years, but directors still do animation, claymation, dolls, black and white and other offbeat stuff like for example "Walking life".
I actually think that when game developers get the power to do really near photo-real visuals, they will simply exploit this to do even more surreal/artsy imagery.
And about gameplay.. a quote from TFA: We'll always stand by gameplay: but it's graphics that will be handcuffing us to the bed during our next "business trip".
I really think the author is wrong here, take counter-strike as an example, until Source popped up and gave it a face-lift its graphics hasn't been up-to-date/state-of-the-art for quite a while. Still, loads of people preferred it over DoD and whatever because they liked the game play in CS better. Graphics play a important role in advertising, as gamers tend to get interested when they see awesome looking realtime graphics, but the handcuffing is done by the "gameplay" aka. is the game actually fun to play.
I've been running the unstable/preview release for almost a month, and after resolving a minor DBUS problem i had right after upgrading, its been running extremely solid. The only noteworthy problem I've had is evince like to chrash when reloading/refreshing.dvi documents, this is really impressive for a unstable release IMHO.
I've been using Ubuntu now for almost one year (I was seeking an open/free alternative to Gentoo), and since then it has become the only Linux flavor I run (well, that and debian for my server). Simply because it gives me the choice of choosing what I want to spend time on. Meaning, I'm not forced to read a multiple pages of documentation to get my digital camera to work, it just works when plugged in. And then if someday I'm like, "Hey, I wanna learn more about HAL/DBUS/whatever" I'm free to mess around with it.
I know its like this with most distributions today, but since I'm a gnome user ubuntu is a perfect fit with their release schedule trying to follow the gnome one.
The only remotely bad thing about Ubuntu is the documentation, not that the wiki isn't nice, its just no FreeBSD or Gentoo handbook;-)
The point is, that your list of examples was just plain BS. I know what you mean and everybody else does on/., but your rant wasn't remotely based on facts. If you would've ranted about the lack of professional audio applications, most of us would agree on that.
I used the following examples in my rant,
3D apps, DVD/video apps CAD software Games
to try and make a point that apps are still missing from the equation, and we should make fun of people who claims so (like they did in the article) untill we actually have a repository that s complete. You for example, mention a need professional audio apps, and if thats valid(when there's rosegaarden, ardour AND emulation software) then some of my points (like games and DVD) are too.
I'll agree that the 3D apps and the CAD apps wasn't "based on facts" as you call it. Especially the 3D apps shouldn't have been there.
But in the DVD/video department, we deffently lack. Maybe not in the VERY high end, but the stuff that people actually use to make their homevids/dvds are way off.'
And the "facts" also seem to suggest that the linux:windows ratio of games being released could be better...
is a pretty good example of who sensitive some of you guys are, when somebody is being just remotely critical of the OS.
Not true, what you said was not critical, but just plain wrong.
please try reading though our dissussion again, I wasn't talking about your response in general. I was talking about your response to the line about the 3d commercial applications becoming available for linux. How can it ever be wrong to say that? when the applications we where talking about, all have been available on other platforms first?
I don't see a lot of/.-posts about the lack of professional-Linux-only-software (Massive, other 3d software) on Windows. Do you? I don't think so. But whenever possible, Windows-zealots are posting comments like yours - and even worse - without any knowledge and fact-checking.
Now you're complaining, that your original comment has been bashed...
not at all, the bashing was valid based on my choise of words. I just think its funny that EVERYBODY focused on the errors (3D software) instad of the point, that certain type of software is lacking so its wrong to make fun of people suggesting it is (as the article did).
Your right, the statement I made was way to harsh and I deffently should have checked up on it first(but also, try and keep in mind that the 3d apps everybody seem to love bashing me about, was just part of the post and the point i was trying to make).
I think this reaction
Not even that is true. There is a lot of 3D software available for Linux, where you simply can't get a Windows or MacOS version. For example Massive (software requirements)
is a pretty good example of who sensitive some of you guys are, when somebody is being just remotely critical of the OS.
What I said, and meant was simply that the commercial apps (The ones we where talking about in the thread, aka. the big important ones) where appearent all available now. There's nothing untrue about that statement at all. You just read a bunch into it. I didn't mean it in a bad, "everything get made for windows/osx first and then gets ported to linux" kinda way. I simply meant that they(the one we talked about) where apperently available now.
But the 3D apps wasn't the entire point of the post. What I was saying was bacially I think its wrong to make fun of the statement that Linux lacks software when it still does(maybe not 3D software then).
I still think its vaild when, for example, hobbiest DVCam users want stuff like the iLife suite. There's a bunch of these types of entry-midrange editing, effect and authoring applications for osx and windows and we still really doesn't have alot of them. The best I've tried is kino, and it really still is some way off.
That wasn't really the point (i'll admit that i made my point poorly), the point is that some types of software like DVD-VIDEO authoring apps(and players) are hard to come by on linux. I simply mentioned the players because, its a thing that to this day still is a issue on our favorite OS, and its a extremely common thing on OSX and Windows.
OKAY, I missed the fact that the GFX applications I've pointed out where available for Linux. Sorry.
What I meant with the post is, that i think its pretty arrogant to make fun of the fact that some people are arguing that software is missing.
And while I stand corrected on the 3D packages, I still stand by the rest of the post.
Ok, so I can get a $5000 professional editing solution to edit my home vids, that wasn't exactly what I mean. I was thinking something like Apple's Ilife or the Ulead software. Likewise with the authoring applications.
Anyways, to sum it up. We do miss software on linux, we miss alot of the stuff most hobbiest users make their stuff with and it IS a "problem" if we ever want to reach a broad audience on the desktop.
The problem is, when u mention it, you get reactions like this.
Yes, I've tried blender. Also after the tried fixing the UI problems. Its almost decent, but no where near being a alternative to the mentioned software.
Fluendo's player isn't available yet, and I've searched regularly. But then Ok, give me a link to a 100% legal implentation of a DVD player AND ofcourse the MPEG-II codec.
btw. I'm not trying to flame, I just have to write something when i see stuff like this. Its dumb to the point of being idiotic to claim there's no problems with software availability.
EVEN if i missed a secret DVD player solution out there, theres a fantazillion of them for the commercial OSes and DVD isn't exactly a new format, so I hope your right(and there's one available atm). I stand by the point i was trying to make, and you missed because I angered you or whatever, we are YEARS behind in the software department when we're talking advanced applications. We got a fantazillion OS text editors though..
Talk about deluting yourself, reason #3 is pure horse shite.
where's the Maya/3DS/LW/Softimage alternative? It doesn't exist (dont be a bone head and suggest Blender here, its like comaring a 79' VW to a Ferrai).
where's the video editing solutions? We have one decent one, but all with haggid no-useable interfaces (seen from a non-linux-fanboiii perspective).
Where's the DVD authoring software(i know about dvd-author, and the v.0.0.1 guis being made for it. From a desktop users perspective these are 100% useless atm)? Heck, where's the LEGAL dvd player to watch your newly mastered holyday vid?
You'll be playing that before you'll see the type of linux destop your talking about here.
Cario is coming pretty soon, gnome 2.12 will include it even though it will just be to up 2D quality the first time around. Hardware accelleration isn't, ready yet.
XGL and luminocity is just testbeds, also they wont be done anytime soon (which was why one of the two main developers recently dropped out of the project, he felt it was too far from release). I saym, 3-4 years. We'll be where OSX is today, OSX (and windows) will ofcource have evolved then.
This stuff is prettycomplex, and like all type of complex development the OS model seem to have a hardtime competing against the commercial offerings(simply because they have more qualified people working full time that, for example XGL has it. Currently ONE guy does the bulk of the development. one!).
Breathe out, and realize if you want the "latest and greatest" desktop you shouldn't run linux.
I've just tried undoing the manual fix i mentioned doing, that br0ked it again so it doesn't really seem like its fixed:p
About the bug#, im not sure which bug you mean? The one i repported on hdparm problems enabling dma, or a more general "root drive on sata gives pata problems"? If you mean mine, just search on dma and you'll find it in a jiff (only two results).
First, let me say I really like ubuntu(it's edged out gentoo as my perfered linux distro) and have nothing but respect for its developers.
But with that out of the way, I really think there's room for improvement in the bug-squashing/support department.
For example, I reported a bug about three months ago that made it impossible to enable DMA support on devices connected to my ATA controller(i knew it wasn't a hardware problem, or bios misconfiguration since i had a gentoo install on another partition where everything worked fine).
Several users promptly confirmed the issue, and a nice person linked to a thread on the forums where the issue was debated. The issue wasn't too complicated, and was bacially a hotplug bug that was fixed by blacklisting the ata controllers driver module and then adding it to/etc/modules.
The "problem" is, that it seems this bug is relevant for most i875 based motherboards(when the distro is installed on a sata disk, its then impossible to enable dma on the ATA devs), and its still not fixed in the repositories. To this day you still need to fix it manually, eventhough the bug is confirmed and very easily fixed.
I'm aware that the algoritms used for raytracers aren't the most complex thing in the world, but my point is that both these engines are most likely pretty big(judging from the amount of features they support, like glowmaps, special light objects in LW etc etc) and i seriously doubt that porting it to a completely new arch would be something that newtek would be willing to do, just to give a demo of a "new" chip.
I haven't seen the actual code, of LW or Maya's rendering engine, but I'm pretty sure it a tad more complex that the basic raytracer we encounter in college. Also, I would like to bet good money that a good deal of the code is written in assembler.
So I'll stand by my post, I don't think it realistic to think Maya or Lightwave will be ported to the CELL just to give a proper demo.
Also, IBM really dont have the option. Neigther LW or Maya are OSS or owned by IBM, so this debate is not at all relevant:p
Slashdot Mirror
Check out:t ory/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000001
:-D
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/cgi_direc
OpenGL 1.4 support, emulated by D3D?
Yeah right, good luck convincing slashdotters that "Vista Won't Suck"
I haven't watched that many DVDs on the PS2 (since, i dont have one :-P) but the few I've seen was pretty decent, eventhough i still think my own trusty Pioneer player does a better job though. But to be fair, i don't think the difference are large enough for anybody but enthusiasts to care. And im guessing its going to be like that with Bluray too, the PS3 player probably wont be the best of the bunch (its more likely it will live in the other end of the spectrum) but I doubt that will stop people from buying it as a bluray player (at least untill budget movie-only players gets released).
:-)
Maybe not the enthusiast which just got a mint 1080p HDTV, but people who have bought HDTVs because:
a. They're flat and pretty
b. They needed a new TV and the salesman said HDTV was the future
Probably wont mind slackin' a little on player quality, if the are in for a $500+ discount.
I mean, look at popularity of the $35-$40 dvd players (most of which are relatively "horrible"), a lot of people don't seem to mind. And lets not get started on PC based software players, which are pure and utterly crap, i just want to comment, it seem like a lot of people doesn't mind
It would be difficult to sell PS3 initially as anything other than a game machine
r sonsinterview.html it doesn't seem like they are in a rush to get out budget models because they claim early adaptors want über gear(they even claim sony's early $1000 DVD players outsold their $500 players).
That's a bold statement if i ever saw one. The PS3 vill probably be priced O($500), and judging from what I've read about the upcoming first generation Bluray movie players, they aren't going to be cheap. Pioneer's have a $1800 player set to debut around march, and judging from this interview http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/ces2006/pa
anyhoo, back to the subject. I'm willing to bet good money that a ½-decent salesman will be able to sell a 500$ PS3 to people with HDTVs who want a HD alternative to their regular DVDs if the alternative movie-only players are x2 the price.
I'm no law student, but according to a lawstudent friend of mine there's actually a huge difference(we've debated the fair use subject again and again).
check item 16. @ http://copylaw.com/new_articles/fairuse.html
I mean, because of their new 3D input device, the gameplay will be vastly different . Like, in nintendo's teaser video where you saw a dude using it to control a sword, as if he was holding the sword in his own hand swinging away.
t _tgs05_quick.zip
Check out the vid here if u haven't: http://zdmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/1UP/revolution_con
No console have ever offered this kinda gameplay before, so i think its fair to call it revolutionary.
Most scripting languages will have some kind of LDAP module available, like python has http://python-ldap.sourceforge.net/ and perl has http://ldap.perl.org/.
:-)
So even if Fedora's directory server doesn't offer any console tools (i dont know if it does), it won't be any problem making scripts manipulating its data. Take a look at this example on howto remove a record, its from the python-ldap site, and it isn't exactly overly-complex to use from the looks of it
import ldap
try:
l = ldap.open("127.0.0.1")
l.protocol_version = ldap.VERSION3
username = "cn=Manager, o=anydomain.com"
password = "secret"
l.simple_bind(username, password)
except ldap.LDAPError, e:
print e
deleteDN = "uid=anyuserid, ou=Customers,ou=Sales,o=anydomain.com"
try:
l.delete_s(deleteDN)
except ldap.LDAPError, e:
print e
Most of the people in my dorm are willing to play good games, regardless of graphics, voice acting, etc.A few of us have Half-Life 2, and there's a few xboxes with Halo and Halo 2, but we can still get a few people playing Quake 3, because we like the pace of the game and the fact that corpses explode into a giant cloud of fine bloody mist.
But Quake 3 is not exactly a indie game(its just free), and you'll be hard pressed finding a indie title of its overall quality.
Yes, if you re-made Doom, it's nowhere near Doom 3. But most gamers wouldn't mind going back to Half-Life graphics if there was gameplay, plot, etc to back it up.
your right, nobody would have problems going back to halflife quality graphics. But the indie games I've seen, like the ones from garage games etc, isn't even at that level. Thats what I was trying to say with my post, the difference is still to big. The difference are nowhere near as big, because a camera is bacially a camera.
My favorite movie came at the end called "Always Greener," a movie filmed by teenagers (S.M.H Productions) from Fairfield, Iowa. Think of "American Pie" light - without the pie (thank God). A web-based cologne merchant goes too far with his marketing campaign and local students do everything in their power to put him out of business. The movie surprisingly is well put together. A budget of about $3,000 and 3 months of filming allowed these filmmakers to walk away with 6 awards at this festival - including "Best Narrative Feature." Every character was fun to watch and I am very eager to see their next project.
I'm aware of the fact that movies with "low quality" visuals can do quite well, it was kinda part of the point I was trying to make. The whole start of my post, kinda stressed that (with the clerks example(aka. the movie made by the guy in the video store), which won quite a few awards too.. including one at cannes)
I'm also aware that the story pretty much makes or breaks a movie, BUT the difference in visual quality in home-recorded/16mm-film vs. 32mm-film is no where near the difference u seen between indie games and games by bigger developers. The actors in movies, still look like actors. The "actor" in a tripple A title today is a lean mean 8000polygon guy, in the indie verion of the game he's a 16-coloured block sprite.
And while I do agree that gameplay and story is the most important factor, I simply just don't alot of people who wanna pay for something that looks like it should run on a Amiga 500.
And if you need further proof that graphics don't matter, try Nexus (nexustk.com), which despite a tiny team and 2D side-scrolling graphics, manages to be one of the more interesting MMOs I've played.
Sorry for being forward, but how does that "prove" anything? Yeah, its a indie game, which u like. If you want to convince me that graphic really doesn't matter. Then link the computergame counterpart of Clerks, Blair witch or whatever. A underdog production that because international hits.
What kinda chance does a guy working in a video store have creating a successful movie with a budget of 30K dollars, filmed by amateurs, acted out by amateurs(or Z-list actors) and filmed on old shitty cameras that make it look like barf. Pretty slim..
still it happens, and its not even THAT rare in the movie industry.
I think eventually, the same will happen with games. The problem today, seems to be that graphics are still
very though to make relatively good looking. The difference between the indie productions and the big software houses is simply too big still.
This will change in the future though, sometime 3D scanners and other appliances will make it possible for
hobbyist/amateurs to produce graphics that can be accepted by gamers. Not anything state of the art, just good enough to be accepted.
Just like movie viewers can accept less quality in indie movie productions. The problem ATM is simply the difference is to big, too compare it with the movie business it would be like if the independent movie productions was a slide-show of pictures with text underneath them.
Isn't this a kinda pointless debate? There will always be room for both the artistic style and the photo realistic one. Visuals are about mood, of-course there will be room for other moods than the ones that photo realistic rendering offer.
The technology for creating photo realistic movies for years, but directors still do animation, claymation, dolls, black and white and other offbeat stuff like for example "Walking life".
I actually think that when game developers get the power to do really near photo-real visuals, they will simply exploit this to do even more surreal/artsy imagery.
And about gameplay.. a quote from TFA:
We'll always stand by gameplay: but it's graphics that will be handcuffing us to the bed during our next "business trip".
I really think the author is wrong here, take counter-strike as an example, until Source popped up and gave it a face-lift its graphics hasn't been up-to-date/state-of-the-art for quite a while. Still, loads of people preferred it over DoD and whatever because they liked the game play in CS better. Graphics play a important role in advertising, as gamers tend to get interested when they see awesome looking realtime graphics, but the handcuffing is done by the "gameplay" aka. is the game actually fun to play.
I've been running the unstable/preview release for almost a month, and after resolving a minor DBUS problem i had right after upgrading, its been running extremely solid. The only noteworthy problem I've had is evince like to chrash when reloading/refreshing .dvi documents, this is really impressive for a unstable release IMHO.
;-)
I've been using Ubuntu now for almost one year (I was seeking an open/free alternative to Gentoo), and since then it has become the only Linux flavor I run (well, that and debian for my server). Simply because it gives me the choice of choosing what I want to spend time on. Meaning, I'm not forced to read a multiple pages of documentation to get my digital camera to work, it just works when plugged in. And then if someday I'm like, "Hey, I wanna learn more about HAL/DBUS/whatever" I'm free to mess around with it.
I know its like this with most distributions today, but since I'm a gnome user ubuntu is a perfect fit with their release schedule trying to follow the gnome one.
The only remotely bad thing about Ubuntu is the documentation, not that the wiki isn't nice, its just no FreeBSD or Gentoo handbook
who cares about 3dmark anyways ;-)
The point is, that your list of examples was just plain BS. I know what you mean and everybody else does on /., but your rant wasn't remotely based on facts. If you would've ranted about the lack of professional audio applications, most of us would agree on that.
/.-posts about the lack of professional-Linux-only-software (Massive, other 3d software) on Windows. Do you? I don't think so. But whenever possible, Windows-zealots are posting comments like yours - and even worse - without any knowledge and fact-checking.
I used the following examples in my rant,
3D apps,
DVD/video apps
CAD software
Games
to try and make a point that apps are still missing from the equation, and we should make fun of people who claims so (like they did in the article) untill we actually have a repository that s complete. You for example, mention a need professional audio apps, and if thats valid(when there's rosegaarden, ardour AND emulation software) then some of my points (like games and DVD) are too.
I'll agree that the 3D apps and the CAD apps wasn't "based on facts" as you call it. Especially the 3D apps shouldn't have been there.
But in the DVD/video department, we deffently lack. Maybe not in the VERY high end, but the stuff that people actually use to make their homevids/dvds are way off.'
And the "facts" also seem to suggest that the linux:windows ratio of games being released could be better...
is a pretty good example of who sensitive some of you guys are, when somebody is being just remotely critical of the OS.
Not true, what you said was not critical, but just plain wrong.
please try reading though our dissussion again, I wasn't talking about your response in general. I was talking about your response to the line about the 3d commercial applications becoming available for linux. How can it ever be wrong to say that? when the applications we where talking about, all have been available on other platforms first?
I don't see a lot of
Now you're complaining, that your original comment has been bashed...
not at all, the bashing was valid based on my choise of words. I just think its funny that EVERYBODY focused on the errors (3D software) instad of the point, that certain type of software is lacking so its wrong to make fun of people suggesting it is (as the article did).
Your right, the statement I made was way to harsh and I deffently should have checked up on it first(but also, try and keep in mind that the 3d apps everybody seem to love bashing me about, was just part of the post and the point i was trying to make).
I think this reaction
Not even that is true. There is a lot of 3D software available for Linux, where you simply can't get a Windows or MacOS version. For example Massive (software requirements)
is a pretty good example of who sensitive some of you guys are, when somebody is being just remotely critical of the OS.
What I said, and meant was simply that the commercial apps (The ones we where talking about in the thread, aka. the big important ones) where appearent all available now. There's nothing untrue about that statement at all. You just read a bunch into it. I didn't mean it in a bad, "everything get made for windows/osx first and then gets ported to linux" kinda way. I simply meant that they(the one we talked about) where apperently available now.
Yeah, I was wrong there. Sorry.
But the 3D apps wasn't the entire point of the post. What I was saying was bacially I think its wrong to make fun of the statement that Linux lacks software when it still does(maybe not 3D software then).
I still think its vaild when, for example, hobbiest DVCam users want stuff like the iLife suite. There's a bunch of these types of entry-midrange editing, effect and authoring applications for osx and windows and we still really doesn't have alot of them. The best I've tried is kino, and it really still is some way off.
That wasn't really the point (i'll admit that i made my point poorly), the point is that some types of software like DVD-VIDEO authoring apps(and players) are hard to come by on linux. I simply mentioned the players because, its a thing that to this day still is a issue on our favorite OS, and its a extremely common thing on OSX and Windows.
OKAY, I missed the fact that the GFX applications I've pointed out where available for Linux. Sorry.
What I meant with the post is, that i think its pretty arrogant to make fun of the fact that some people are arguing that software is missing.
And while I stand corrected on the 3D packages, I still stand by the rest of the post.
Ok, so I can get a $5000 professional editing solution to edit my home vids, that wasn't exactly what I mean. I was thinking something like Apple's Ilife or the Ulead software. Likewise with the authoring applications.
Anyways, to sum it up. We do miss software on linux, we miss alot of the stuff most hobbiest users make their stuff with and it IS a "problem" if we ever want to reach a broad audience on the desktop.
The problem is, when u mention it, you get reactions like this.
Okay, I'll retract the 3D apps comment since the commercial apps all apperently are getting available by now.
but NeroLinux, isn't able to DVD-VIDEO authoring and I doubt that many of the CAD programs on that list could replace SolidWorks or AutoCAD.
and about the games, yes some games are released(like 1/100^2 or something like that) and the emulation isn't really an option for joe/jane user.
Yes, I've tried blender. Also after the tried fixing the UI problems. Its almost decent, but no where near being a alternative to the mentioned software.
Fluendo's player isn't available yet, and I've searched regularly. But then Ok, give me a link to a 100% legal implentation of a DVD player AND ofcourse the MPEG-II codec.
btw. I'm not trying to flame, I just have to write something when i see stuff like this. Its dumb to the point of being idiotic to claim there's no problems with software availability.
EVEN if i missed a secret DVD player solution out there, theres a fantazillion of them for the commercial OSes and DVD isn't exactly a new format, so I hope your right(and there's one available atm). I stand by the point i was trying to make, and you missed because I angered you or whatever, we are YEARS behind in the software department when we're talking advanced applications. We got a fantazillion OS text editors though..
Talk about deluting yourself, reason #3 is pure horse shite.
where's the Maya/3DS/LW/Softimage alternative? It doesn't exist (dont be a bone head and suggest Blender here, its like comaring a 79' VW to a Ferrai).
where's the video editing solutions? We have one decent one, but all with haggid no-useable interfaces (seen from a non-linux-fanboiii perspective).
Where's the DVD authoring software(i know about dvd-author, and the v.0.0.1 guis being made for it. From a desktop users perspective these are 100% useless atm)? Heck, where's the LEGAL dvd player to watch your newly mastered holyday vid?
Where's the CAD/CAM software?
Where's the games?t
You'll be playing that before you'll see the type of linux destop your talking about here.
Cario is coming pretty soon, gnome 2.12 will include it even though it will just be to up 2D quality the first time around. Hardware accelleration isn't, ready yet.
XGL and luminocity is just testbeds, also they wont be done anytime soon (which was why one of the two main developers recently dropped out of the project, he felt it was too far from release). I saym, 3-4 years. We'll be where OSX is today, OSX (and windows) will ofcource have evolved then.
This stuff is prettycomplex, and like all type of complex development the OS model seem to have a hardtime competing against the commercial offerings(simply because they have more qualified people working full time that, for example XGL has it. Currently ONE guy does the bulk of the development. one!).
Breathe out, and realize if you want the "latest and greatest" desktop you shouldn't run linux.
I've just tried undoing the manual fix i mentioned doing, that br0ked it again so it doesn't really seem like its fixed :p
About the bug#, im not sure which bug you mean? The one i repported on hdparm problems enabling dma, or a more general "root drive on sata gives pata problems"? If you mean mine, just search on dma and you'll find it in a jiff (only two results).
First, let me say I really like ubuntu(it's edged out gentoo as my perfered linux distro) and have nothing but respect for its developers.
/etc/modules.
But with that out of the way, I really think there's room for improvement in the bug-squashing/support department.
For example, I reported a bug about three months ago that made it impossible to enable DMA support on devices connected to my ATA controller(i knew it wasn't a hardware problem, or bios misconfiguration since i had a gentoo install on another partition where everything worked fine).
Several users promptly confirmed the issue, and a nice person linked to a thread on the forums where the issue was debated. The issue wasn't too complicated, and was bacially a hotplug bug that was fixed by blacklisting the ata controllers driver module and then adding it to
The "problem" is, that it seems this bug is relevant for most i875 based motherboards(when the distro is installed on a sata disk, its then impossible to enable dma on the ATA devs), and its still not fixed in the repositories. To this day you still need to fix it manually, eventhough the bug is confirmed and very easily fixed.
Thats not very impressive if you ask me.
I'm aware that the algoritms used for raytracers aren't the most complex thing in the world, but my point is that both these engines are most likely pretty big(judging from the amount of features they support, like glowmaps, special light objects in LW etc etc) and i seriously doubt that porting it to a completely new arch would be something that newtek would be willing to do, just to give a demo of a "new" chip.
:p
I haven't seen the actual code, of LW or Maya's rendering engine, but I'm pretty sure it a tad more complex that the basic raytracer we encounter in college. Also, I would like to bet good money that a good deal of the code is written in assembler.
So I'll stand by my post, I don't think it realistic to think Maya or Lightwave will be ported to the CELL just to give a proper demo.
Also, IBM really dont have the option. Neigther LW or Maya are OSS or owned by IBM, so this debate is not at all relevant
I mean, optimizing Maya or Lightwaves raytracing/radiosity engines to make use of the Cell is NOT a trivial task.
Does anybody know if it will allow creation of LVM2 volumes during install?