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Linux 2.4.19 Released

Adrian Voinea writes "The latest stable Linux kernel (2.4.19) is out. The somewhat massive changelog has the details. The patch file is here and the full source is here. If possible use a mirror."

367 comments

  1. WOW by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1, Funny

    This is earth shattering news! I think I need a beer to calm down.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:WOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... er... didn't the maintainer get deported? Who did this release?

    2. Re:WOW by packeteer · · Score: 1

      one question...

      how much was that beer... ...mine was free

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    3. Re:WOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS trolls give it up windows is Dead

  2. If possible? by SpamJunkie · · Score: 5, Informative

    What do you mean, "if possible use a mirror.". Use a mirror. The only time it isn't possible is when, say, the main server gets slashdotted and there ARE no mirrors.

    When will you ever learn?

    1. Re:If possible? by tunah · · Score: 4, Funny
      Oh yeah, great. Why don't I just go and have a clove of garlic for breakfast while i'm at it? You want a silver stake? 'Cause I've got one right here that you can have. Honestly, you are a load of insensitive bastards.

      Dracula

      --
      Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
    2. Re:If possible? by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Didn't you just contradict yourself? You have admitted that there are times when it is not possible to use the main site (it is Slashdotted). In which case, the phrase "if possible use a mirror" makes perfect sense. By your own admission.

    3. Re:If possible? by jgkastra · · Score: 1

      Well, considering that it is Friday night, the load should be a little lighter.

      But realizing this, I've come to see that I'm compiling the kernel on a Friday night.

      And I need to readjust a few priorities of mine...

    4. Re:If possible? by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Don't post.

      I'm suprised you managed to figure out how to do it to begin with.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    5. Re:If possible? by ChadN · · Score: 2

      You say in your post:
      Don't post.

      and yet your signature says:
      The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored.

      Seems a bit strange, is all...

      --
      "It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
    6. Re:If possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, people can just simply "use a mirror" and there will be no contradictions.

    7. Re:If possible? by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Unrelated.

      Requesting that someone not speak because their stupidity offends me is far from censoring them.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    8. Re:If possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I say we form a committee and study the issue.

    9. Re:If possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well Sheldon, as long as you put it that way. Shut the fuck up.

    10. Re:If possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait if you're dracula, shouldnt you suck his blood instead?

    11. Re:If possible? by MSG · · Score: 2

      I think he meant when the main server is slashdotted before the mirrors do their mirror thing. In that case, they probably can't, and the only site with the content is the main one.

    12. Re:If possible? by drwho · · Score: 1

      what we need is our own p2p system for kernel updates.

    13. Re:If possible? by LinuxHam · · Score: 2

      I've advocated using a "Linux" Gnutella network name for a long time.

      Anyone with a static IP want to be the first node?

      --
      Intelligent Life on Earth
    14. Re:If possible? by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Stargate SG-1 and Farscape are on on Friday night.

  3. Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Meanwhile, SP3 for Windows 2000 is released, implementing the new "Set Program Access and Defaults" feature. Unsurprisingly, Slashdot is silent.

    1. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I can tell Windows to use whatever browser, media player and email program I want!

      Oh wait, I already could do all that anyway.

    2. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are looking for fans of Microsoft you are in
      the wrong place. Don't worry it happens all the time. I
      can't tell you how many fans of Microsoft products show
      up here at Slashdot and expect to be treated fairly.
      -
      -
      No really. No one will miss you. YOU are free to leave. Go
      hang out ZDnet or something.
      Has slashdot ever been friendly to Microsoft?? NO
      Does slashdot have a responsibility to be friendly to
      Microsoft?? NO
      If you are looking for a place where other people will
      blow hot air up that little skirt you are wearing
      YOU are in the wrong place. We don't care.

    3. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A typical neanderthal posting from a typical biased Slashdotter. I'm still trying to figure out what ZDnet has to do with anything.

    4. Re:Meanwhile... by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 1
      No, no... see the poll:
      Watch Master of Disguise? I'd rather:
      [ ] Drive Nails Under My Favorite Eyeball
      [ ] Install SP3 for W2K
      ...
      I would hardly call that ignoring.
      --
      I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
    5. Re:Meanwhile... by dehex · · Score: 1

      ZDNet is a Pro-Microsoft News Site.

      --
      Opensource=Openmind=Freedom
    6. Re:Meanwhile... by sbrown123 · · Score: 1

      ZDNet IS very pro Microsoft. They host the largest majority of Microsoft Certified morons anywhere that I know of in ZDNet's crappy Talkback section. Its actually humorous to read at times just HOW confused these individuals really are.

    7. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2

      "Meanwhile, SP3 for Windows 2000 [microsoft.com] is released, implementing the new "Set Program Access and Defaults" feature. Unsurprisingly, Slashdot is silent."

      I'm not surprised. Slashdot seems blissfully unaware that not everybody can switch to Linux. I'm a 3D artist. I use Lightwave, Photoshop, and After Effects extensively. Despite the fact that Lightwave is responsible for a fair number of pixels on Star Trek, Babylon 5, and a whole slew of other shows that /.'ers like, I still get treated like a moron for preferring Windows 2000 over Linux. Never mind that it is reliable, gets the job done, plus I can play all my favorite games as well. No no no, you see MS is evil and doesn't do anything right.

      I mentioned wanting to use VNC like a KVM the other day and somebody responded with "I do stuff like that all the time. It's called the X Windowing System. Oh, you're probably running MS Windoze, never mind.". Yeah, Linux'd really solve that problem there. Too bad my rendering times would suddenly become infinity.

      While I'm busy doing my job with Windows, Slashdot is posting minor updates to the Linux kernel. I think it's silly.

      I'm sure I'll get modded down for this post, but it felt good to let it out. I don't mind /. blasting MS when they do something wrong, but I do wish they'd pay attention to the brighter news from MS's camp. If the Linux community acts like it's solely out for blood when dealing with MS, nobody'll take their comments seriously despite being the most informed about them. "Oh, it's those stupid Slashdotters again. What are they blithering about?"

    8. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Its actually humorous to read at times just HOW confused these individuals really are.

      To be fair, exactly the same could be said of slashdot. Some of the 'informative' stuff you read here is just laughable.

    9. Re:Meanwhile... by Xpilot · · Score: 2


      While I'm busy doing my job with Windows, Slashdot is posting minor updates to the Linux kernel. I think it's silly.


      You don't have to read about Linux if you don't want to you know. There are a lot of Linux fans here who love to hear about new kernel releases and talk about it. This is slashdot. This site wasn't meant to cater to Windows fans. That's just how it is. If you want to read about Windows updates, you're looking in the wrong place.

      --
      "Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
    10. Re:Meanwhile... by Alioth · · Score: 4, Funny

      What do you expect?

      Slashdot isn't about Windows. If Slashdot was a Windows-centric (not UNIX centric) site, it would be \. and not /.

    11. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      May a is on Linux, and I *think* that Lightwave is intended to g osoon.

      Blender works well, but the UI paradigm is a little different.

    12. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ain't ZD filed chapter 11?

    13. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what he was trying to say was if you look at the bad, also consider the good. They have £££ to spend on R&D. If we can hijack that then we can improve without spending that money. We cannot hijack it if we only slag them off without considering that they >may do somthing good sometimes... Just a thought...

      Zenith_tb

    14. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2

      You are correct, Maya is on Linux. Lightwave will be able to render on Linux, but you still need Win/Mac in order to create animation on it.

      The problem with Maya is that the renderer is quite inferior to Lightwave's. You'd haveta get Renderman. That puppy's expensive. $5,000 last I checked.

    15. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not surprised. Slashdot seems blissfully unaware that not everybody can switch to Linux. I'm a 3D artist. I use Lightwave, Photoshop, and After Effects extensively. Despite the fact that Lightwave is responsible for a fair number of pixels on Star Trek, Babylon 5, and a whole slew of other shows that /.'ers like, I still get treated like a moron for preferring Windows 2000 over Linux. Never mind that it is reliable, gets the job done, plus I can play all my favorite games as well. No no no, you see MS is evil and doesn't do anything right.

      I suggest you switch to Mac OS X. Then the /. community won't trash you as much, and you can still use Lightwave.

      Besides, you'd get the benefits of AltiVec

    16. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2

      I shouldn't have to switch to OSX just to get a little respect. Especially true when I'm actually doing cool stuff with my computer as opposed to trying to make it play catch-up with Windows.

    17. Re:Meanwhile... by sydneyfong · · Score: 2

      Imagine!! "Backslashdot"

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
    18. Re:Meanwhile... by qurk · · Score: 1

      Ya you will get a lot of respect by railing about how you are hard working on Saturday and you are just compelled to write a slashdot post about how it offends you so deeply that a lot of people are much more interested in reading about the new kernel release then anything about microsoft. Obviously you are suffering from an inferiority complex. Fuck Microsoft. This weekend I hooked up a 2 gig hd to my master, formatted it, and hooked my 40 gig hd with all my data on it as a slave. So I put in the Microsoft CD and boot from the CD and it tells me it's about to get the "first hard drive" ready. So it repartitions my 40 gig hd as a 2 gig hard drive and leaves my 2 gig master hd empty. It then proceeds to need to reboot real quick although it didn't change the boot sector to reflect it just wiped out my computer. So if your gonna come preaching to a predominately anti-microsoft crowd about how you deserve so much respect for sucking Bill Gates dick well fine, it's a free country, Micro-fuckhead!

    19. Re:Meanwhile... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2

      " So if your gonna come preaching to a predominately anti-microsoft crowd about how you deserve so much respect for sucking Bill Gates dick well fine, it's a free country, Micro- fuckhead!"

      Those are strong words from somebody who admitted they can't do something as simple as install Windows. Heh. What a tard.

      Sorry bud, you can't attribute your incompetance to Microsoft. You certainly can't troll me with it.

    20. Re:Meanwhile... by qurk · · Score: 1
      Hehe.

      Actually I can install windows just fine thank you :)

      I've done it dozens of times, this was just the first time I've done it kosher with the boot option, rather than just going to the spot on the CD and running setup.exe.

      Actually by the time 12 hours had passed I had installed SuSE entirely from ftp, installed Gentoo twice, and yes, installed Winsuxmyass on /dev/hda4.

      So now that we have that issue out of the way I still believe that you've come to the wrong place to preach the goodness that is Micro-shit!

  4. On a more serious note... by electricmonk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can anybody here summarize any important changes that went on between 2.4.18 and 2.4.19? This changelog is just a ton of bug fixes between prereleases. Did they do anything interesting with it?

    --
    Friends don't let friends use multiple inheritance.
    1. Re:On a more serious note... by B1ood · · Score: 1

      i hope nothing big happened. those kinds of changes or additional features should be going into the 2.5 kernel.

      --
      Note to self: pasty-skinned programmers ought not stand in the Mojave desert for multiple hours. -- John Carmack
    2. Re:On a more serious note... by DCowern · · Score: 3, Informative

      There should be much improved IDE support including much improved support for UDMA6/ATA133 especially on Promise cards. To me, this is the most important thing because I've been unable to use Linux on my main system due to spurrious lockups when my large UDMA6 disks are mounted (even without DMA turned on..). -- Dave

    3. Re:On a more serious note... by rakarnik · · Score: 4, Informative

      Main important change would be the IDE updates from the -ac kernels which are in 2.4.19. These should support the new large disks and ATA133, AFAIK. Also, the Changelog is accurate: those were the patches from 2.4.18 to 2.4.19.

      -Rahul

    4. Re:On a more serious note... by Atzanteol · · Score: 1

      I agree. I'd love to know if there is better support for new hardware, etc.

      If it helps, I believe there is better USB support in 2.4.19. I've got a Quickcam 3000 Pro that I'm hoping has better support in 2.4.19...

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    5. Re:On a more serious note... by Jim+Norton · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they finally support my chipset (VT8233A)... now I can finally enable DMA mode on my drives instead of the CPU-sucking PIO 4! Whoo-hoo!

      Jim

      --
      -- Jim
    6. Re:On a more serious note... by glwtta · · Score: 2
      aren't stable branch releases supposed to be just that - bug fixes? the "interesting" stuff goes into 2.5

      but yeah, the "user friendly digest summary" idea is brought up every time, guess that kernel literate person who wants to take the time to do it ever time has not materialized yet.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    7. Re:On a more serious note... by Brummund · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can verify the Promise part. I've been using the new Promise Ultra ATA 133 controller on 2.4.19-rc1 for a little while, and it works great!

    8. Re:On a more serious note... by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I hate to say it, but the Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 release notes are much more clear than the ChangeLog. They might not tell you in great detail what was fixed, but at least you can understand it.

      Say unlike this item in the ChangeLog:
      [PATCH] Important Bluetooth fixes

      Uhhh... yeah... okay... they're important, but why?

    9. Re:On a more serious note... by loginx · · Score: 1

      You seem to be confusing the changelog with a marketing tool, which is pretty much what microsoft just released. All of a sudden, the microsoft people announce that users may chose the default browsers, email software, media player (which they could already do before), and microsoft decides to release some of their code in open source, blablabla... They see the new thing that's starting to work and they want their piece of the pie... It seems logic enough to me. Also the kernel changelogs are made to be understood by developers, not end users. The end user that wants to be able to read a changelog and understand will read the major distributions' changelogs and will see something they can read like "Now brews your coffee every morning". This is the marvel of marketing my friend.

    10. Re:On a more serious note... by Dimensio · · Score: 1

      Hrmm...I tried 2.4.19-rc3 and my 120GB drive on my ATA100 Promise controller went to shit. Went back to 2.4.18 and all was well. I do hope that was just a problem with that rc.

    11. Re:On a more serious note... by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 1
      The Service Pack release notes are not marketing tools. Go read them. You're also confusing the unreleased Windows XP Service Pack 1, which does the software removal stuff, with the Windows 2000 Service Packs.

      I'm not saying that Microsoft is perfect. I'm just saying that their release notes are better than the ChangeLog. I'm not even sure if developer's are going to get some of things noted in the ChangeLogs.

    12. Re:On a more serious note... by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Funny
      yes!

      pipe.c: ++i; changed to i++;
      panic.c: printf("shit!\n"); changed to puts("shit!");

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    13. Re:On a more serious note... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not even sure if developer's are going to get some of things noted in the ChangeLogs.

      They don't have to. Clearly it's just a brief summary. If they need to know more about the changes, they can look at the code (and the comments within the code). They can also check the appropiate mailing list archive for relevant discussion.

    14. Re:On a more serious note... by MADCOWbeserk · · Score: 2

      First, thank you Gogo for the link, I have been wanting to know what was in SP3 all week. Second, to be fair microsoft has writers and secretaries and corporate accounts to cater too. Alas the SP3 update is a major update, NT service packs are almost as important as new OS's to enterprise customers. Whereas second decimal point Kernel releases are frequent. Changelogs are written by Kernel developers that can better spend time kernel hacking than making organized concise changelogs. All things considered Marcelo has done a good job compiling this log, if you want more information on any change just do a search for it or the developer who contributed it in the Kernel mailing list.

      "hmm, sacrilicous" HS

    15. Re:On a more serious note... by bockman · · Score: 1
      This changelog is just a ton of bug fixes between prereleases. Did they do anything interesting with it?

      Bux fixes _are_ important, as you'll discover when a nasty bug bites you. This is why there is a stable branch: to fix bugs.

      --
      Ciao

      ----

      FB

    16. Re:On a more serious note... by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 1
      You're welcome.

      I agree that the ChangeLogs have gotten a lot better than what Linus used to put out.

      I think that one of the areas where Open Source is severely behind with regards to non-Open Source is in the area of documentation. There are a few notable exceptions, of course, like Perl and Apache, but often times the documentation is either lacking or severely out of date. Telling users to "read the source" or "use --help" just doesn't cut it. The Linux Documentation Project is a great step forward, but has lots of work to go.

      Unfortunately, I don't see a huge change on the horizon. Writing documentation is "boring" and not as "exciting" as programming. Maybe somebody needs to sponsor a group of technical writers...

    17. Re:On a more serious note... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > panic.c: printf("shit!\n"); change to
      > puts("shit!");

      Needless fiddlin' - gcc will do this transformation
      as of 3.1 - now if only those *&^%$ kernel hackers
      started to use it ...

      Toon Moene.

  5. use this mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    1. Re:use this mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      this source has backdoors in it, check the signature -- it's invalid!

      Don't download from here!

    2. Re:use this mirror by Mike+Markley · · Score: 1

      gpg: Signature made Fri Aug 2 17:43:11 2002 PDT using DSA key ID 517D0F0E
      gpg: Good signature from "Linux Kernel Archives Verification Key "

      Hmmmm... I mean, sure, I guess the ftpadmin key could've somehow been compromised, but the signature certainly seems fine...

  6. Re:neat by morgajel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ....
    apt-get kernel-source-2.4.19
    unbzip2, untar etc...
    make menuconfig
    make dep clean bzImage modules modules install
    cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/newkern
    lilo
    lilo -q

    I've only had it fail on one machine, and it had a crappy mobo.

    --
    Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
  7. Does dump work yet by mosch · · Score: 5, Interesting
    A fundamental question. Does this release of 2.4 make it so that dump is now reliable, or is dump deprecated as a method of backup forever?

    If it's the latter, can any of you linux gurus tell me what is the current "accepted" solution for making backups. Not archives or images, backups.

    For those of you who are going to say dump works fine on 2.4, please read this message from Linus Torvalds. I keep hoping he'll change his mind though, at least until a viable alternative arises.

    1. Re:Does dump work yet by stikves · · Score: 2
      Read the message you referred.

      Linus says: "use tar, do not use dump. it's not a good design anyway"

      I'd better listen to him.

    2. Re:Does dump work yet by robl · · Score: 2

      'cpio' is also a good choice, especially when capturing special files, like those in /dev. I trust this more than the system default tar on many systems (e.g. Solaris).

      Supposedly 'afio' is advertised as a better alternative to cpio. It's biggest advantage would
      be safer creation of compressed archives.

    3. Re:Does dump work yet by TimFreeman · · Score: 3, Informative
      I use Mondo Archive. Works great for me.
      If it's the latter, can any of you linux gurus tell me what is the current "accepted" solution for making backups. Not archives or images, backups.
      Mondoarchive clearly doesn't do disk imaging. I'm not clear on the distinction you're making here between backups and archives. The issues mentioned in the abovementioned post from Linus are:
      • Backing up without unmounting disks. Mondoarchive does fine with that.
      • Altering atimes and ctimes. I haven't checked this so I don't know what Mondoarchive does with them.
      Mondoarchive can do incremental backups. Internally it uses afio for all of its work.
    4. Re:Does dump work yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      > 'cpio' is also a good choice, especially when capturing special files, like those in /dev. I trust this more than the system default tar on many systems (e.g. Solaris).

      FYI, GNU's tar handles the special files just fine. I've used it to do partition-to-partition copies several times, all went well. ..just make sure not to try copying /proc ;-)

    5. Re:Does dump work yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If it's the latter, can any of you linux gurus tell me what is the current "accepted" solution for making backups. Not archives or images, backups.

      What's your objection to BRU?..

    6. Re:Does dump work yet by glwtta · · Score: 2
      tee hee... "dump" *giggle*

      (as a side note - shouldn't having karma of "fucking awesome" or whatever mine is, relieve you of the whole "you must wait two minutes between posts" thing? ok, maybe this wasn't the best post to attach this gripe to, but still...)

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    7. Re:Does dump work yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Linus is unlikely to change his mind about dump being a stupid program, because the concept of dump is just plain broken.

      If you want to back up raw devices, use dd.

      If you want to back up filesystems, use tar, cpio, or similar programs. These tools will back up everything that the standard Unix APIs expose about files.

      Dump, however, tries to do more. Since there isn't an API to get what it wants to know, it has to read the raw device and duplicate the kernel's interpretation of the raw data. Since the kernel is being bypassed, there's no way to ensure that the data is coherent; sooner or later, something will get out of sync and bite you.

      You can make dump work right, if you add new hooks into the kernel, extending the API. So it may work fine on Solaris, for example. But I don't think that those hooks are part of the POSIX standard. Dump is always bound to a particular implementation, with zero portability.

      Figure out what you really need. Most can get by with file backups. If you truly need to restore to the same block numbers, then use dd.

    8. Re:Does dump work yet by realdpk · · Score: 2

      Wonder when Linus will get tired of "tar"? After all, its about as standard as "dump" is in any UNIX distribution. Maybe some file buffer cache change will render tar unusable, and we'll be told to use say.. dd? Or maybe cat.

    9. Re:Does dump work yet by macshit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wonder when Linus will get tired of "tar"? After all, its about as standard as "dump" is in any UNIX distribution. Maybe some file buffer cache change will render tar unusable, and we'll be told to use say.. dd? Or maybe cat.

      Um, do you understand the difference between dump and tar?

      Tar (and cpio, etc.), works via the normal user filesystem interface, which is very stable and well-defined. Dump, on the other hand, looks at the underlying disk, and so is extremely sensitive to changes in the way the filesystem works. As a result, it's not very robust (though it can be speedy).

      Linus's advice is very good. Hopefully dump will just go away altogether; its time has gone.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    10. Re:Does dump work yet by wscott · · Score: 1

      You can use partimage instead. It supports most filesystems on linux and saves a raw partition without saving empty blocks.

    11. Re:Does dump work yet by shlong · · Score: 2

      Linus is unlikely to change his mind about dump being a stupid program, because the concept of dump is just plain broken.

      What's broken about incremental backups? When you run a datacenter that needs 10TB of data backed up every night, you're going to have a hard time doing that with dd/cpio/tar. Incremental and/or differential backups are the only way to go. Now, you can debate the merits of dump using the raw device and bypassing the buffer/cache, but the idea of dump is not wrong.

      Btw, FreeBSD dropped raw devices two years, and its' dump still works. Also, unified buffer/caches are not all they're cracked up to be.

      --
      Cat, the other, tastier white meat.
    12. Re:Does dump work yet by AJWM · · Score: 2

      Dump? Use of dump was discouraged when I started using Unix back in the mid-1980s.

      For home/small systems, 'find' and 'tar' or 'cpio' are fine ('find' so you can do incrementals). For serious stuff, use one of the professional packages.

      Of course it also depends on how much you want to back up and what your budget is like. A 100 GB removable drive and 'dd' could be all you need...

      --
      -- Alastair
    13. Re:Does dump work yet by AJWM · · Score: 3, Informative
      Incremental and/or differential backups are the only way to go.
      $ man find
      FIND(1L)
      [...]
      -newer file
      File was modified more recently than file. -newer is affected by -follow only if -follow comes before -newer on the command line.
      Works great for providing the list of files to do an incremental backup of with tar or cpio.
      --
      -- Alastair
    14. Re:Does dump work yet by ChadN · · Score: 2

      Use LVM, filesystem snapshots, and tar (or cpio).

      --
      "It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
    15. Re:Does dump work yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      RTFM, GNU tar does incremental backups. From the man page:
      -G, --incremental
      create/list/extract old GNU-format incremental backup
      -g, --listed-incremental F
      create/list/extract new GNU-format incremental backup
    16. Re:Does dump work yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      From the above-linked message..."On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Neil Conway wrote:"

      For a second I thought it said Cowboy Neal. Heat's gettin' to me!

      All this talk about dump, tar, cpio... remember when people used 20 different archivers in DOS? (zip, arj, arc, lha, ...)

    17. Re:Does dump work yet by guacamole · · Score: 2

      If you truly need to restore to the same block numbers, then use dd.

      But we note that dump is not a disk imaging tool. It's a backup program with support for things like incremental dumps, interactive restores, etc. It can't be replaced with dd. It should be obvious to anyone who is doing backups in a real world.

    18. Re:Does dump work yet by __aakpxi9117 · · Score: 0, Troll

      There's a solution for just about ALL Linux problems. It's simple, SWITCH TO *BSD.

      Tired of unstable untested kernels that crap out on you? Tired of NEEDING to reconfigure and recompiling a kernel every week? Sick of modules that for some reason never completely work right? Tired of incredibly and needlessly complex SysV startup scripts? Tired of having a needlessly complex and non-stateful firewall? Tired of working your damn ass off just to get a single stable system?

      Use BSD and all these problems will magically disappear.

    19. Re:Does dump work yet by Peter+H.S. · · Score: 3, Informative

      We have been using BRU backup backup software on our Linux servers the last couple of years. Recommended. The price is right too. They have fully working demoes for download. http://www.tolisgroup.com/

      The main reason that we chose a commercial package was, that backups, especially on DAT streamers, can be a nasty experience. After experiencing a couple of "write-only" backup incidents (on NT 4.0 using DAT 1 and 2 streamers), I wanted something that actually verified the backup, and had extremely good error-logging, and CLI/scripting facilities.
      Since BRU probably is the oldest commecial Linux and BSD backup package, it was the best choice at the time. There are several other solutions now.

      Some advanteges with BRU:
      Good CRC-32 check to ensure that what you _try_ to back up, actually end up on the tape in a non-corrupted state.
      Fast verify.

      Excellent error-logging.

      Back up of live filesystems, and special files like sparse files, pipes, special device links etc.

      Excellent CLI options, like regex selecting files, or filesystems to backup.

      We still use v.16. But v.17 has Quick File Access (QFA. It also has a better GUI, but BRUs real power is as CLI program.

      They also have a free (QPL lince) program called CRU, that enables booting from tape (if the streamer supports it, like HP's), and making a complete restore of the OS and data, including fdisk'ing, in one go.
      (You just press a button on the DAT streamer, while the server boots).

    20. Re:Does dump work yet by richie2000 · · Score: 2

      The name BRU rang a bell, I seem to recall the backup engine under HDBackup in AmigaOS 2.x/3.x was called BRU - Backup and Recovery Utility or something like that. Any relation?

      --
      Money for nothing, pix for free
    21. Re:Does dump work yet by Peter+H.S. · · Score: 2

      It certainly looks like it, not only because of the name but also since the syntax /switches (http://www.amigarealm.com/) basicly are the same as in BRU from tolisgroup. Eg. BRU -G for getting archive info etc.

    22. Re:Does dump work yet by guacamole · · Score: 2

      Please don't troll.

      There is no need to reconfigure or recompile the Linux kernel every week. I don't know about the slashdot crowd but I stick with vendor kernels (redhat) and they work pretty well and rarely need to be replaced. Modules work fine too. In fact, the Linux kernel was modular long time before FreeBSD kernel war. The Linux 2.4 iptables packet filter is stateful and I find the syntax to be much better than that of IPF. I have setup about Linux 50 systems at work and they're very stable, thank you very much.

    23. Re:Does dump work yet by BlowChunx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't rsync provide the same ability to do incremental backups?

    24. Re:Does dump work yet by prog-guru · · Score: 1
      If you truly need to restore to the same block numbers, then use dd.

      only if you are restoring to an identical disk.

      dump, when it works, is the best IMO, it's time estimate is always right on, and it's my favorite way to upgrade hard drives. I do get better performance (faster backups, faster restores, more data on tape) with tar czpSf. If you run out of tape or something, you can also usually get some of the files out, try that with dump. I tried star, but it didn't seem much faster on my system, and I couldn't get it to work with gzip.

      one advantage of dump is security, you only need to give the user running dump read to the raw device, in tar you need read to the whole FS, which means root.

      --

      chris@xanadu:~$ whatis /.
      /.: nothing appropriate.

    25. Re:Does dump work yet by prog-guru · · Score: 1
      we'll be told to use say.. dd? Or maybe cat.

      or cp, gross.

      --

      chris@xanadu:~$ whatis /.
      /.: nothing appropriate.

    26. Re:Does dump work yet by prog-guru · · Score: 1

      one more note I haven't seen mentioned, tar works with journaling filesystems. XFS has a dump utility, but I haven't seen one for ReiserFS (my favorite) or EXT3. I always wondered if we could use dump for EXT2 on EXT3 systems.

      --

      chris@xanadu:~$ whatis /.
      /.: nothing appropriate.

    27. Re:Does dump work yet by MSG · · Score: 2

      Well, despite the opinions of some, I also hope that dump gets the love it needs from kernel developers soon. There's more to some filesystems than tar or cpio take into account. ACL's spring to mind... Neither tar nor cpio back those up. Basically any file system which offers extended management features will need its own dump program. It's all covered in O'Reiley's "UNIX Backup and Recovery", which everyone who thinks that tar and cpio are always good enough should read.

    28. Re:Does dump work yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nothing's wrong with incremental backups. You can even do them through the file system layer, which is safe. But dump operates below that layer, which is dangerous.

      Dump/restore have great features, are useful, etc. That's not the problem. The problem is that bypassing the kernel's file system code is an unsafe kludge. It's like jumping directly into the middle of the code for some function, because you want to access some internal variable that's not exposed through the normal interface.

      The idea of using the raw device while it's mounted is what's wrong with dump. I have no objection to the rest of it.

      The file system calls expose the data that most people need. Some of the file system internals aren't exposed, making things like sparse files hard to deal with. The right way to do dump would be to add calls that tell the kernel to expose that data, so that the kernel can do the needed synchronization. Doing that in user code that gets the file system structures by reading blocks straight off of the disk is just plain broken. It won't work in Linux, where dump/restore are not managed as part of the kernel release process. *BSD and commercial Unixes always include both the kernel and dump in any release, making it possible for it to work.

      But the right way to get the data is to ask the kernel for it.

    29. Re:Does dump work yet by Mark+Bainter · · Score: 2
      Lonetar + rescue ranger! It's a carryover from my SCO days. SCO server failure? If you've got lone-tar/airbag you're up w/out hassle. Freaking reliable.

      Backups for linux are fire and forget too. Fortunately, I've never had a catastrophic failure under linux, so I've not had a need to test RR outside of a lab environment. (Where it works fine)

      --
      "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
      --James Madison
    30. Re:Does dump work yet by zerocool^ · · Score: 2

      What's so wrong with amanda?

      ~Will

      --
      sig?
    31. Re:Does dump work yet by ChadN · · Score: 2

      Yes, they are related. Fred Fish even helped develop it, IIRC.

      --
      "It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
    32. Re:Does dump work yet by guacamole · · Score: 2

      No.In addition, rsync doesn't work with tapes.

    33. Re:Does dump work yet by mosch · · Score: 2
      okay, so let's say I use tar or cpio, how do I get file attributes I set via chattr? I just double-checked the man page for GNU tar, and for cpio and didn't see a way to do it.

      I'd very seriously like to know, because to my knowledge there's currently no way to backup an ext2 filesystem, at all. dd isn't an answer either, restoring via dd requires identical (or mostly identical) hardware, something which isn't always available when you're restoring data off of a 5 year old machine.

      It's fine to kill a program, if there is a replacement but tar, cpio and dd aren't replacements.

    34. Re:Does dump work yet by mosch · · Score: 2

      And what does Linus say I should do in order to preserve file attributes at the filesystem level (those set with chattr).

    35. Re:Does dump work yet by __aakpxi9117 · · Score: 1
      The couple years or so when I was really into Linux, it was a necessity. From about RedHat 5.2 through 6.0, 6.1, and 6.2. The kernel was well behind the rest of the world, so I was constantly upgrading to get a better filesystem, USB support, fix bugs introduced in the previous rushed release. So many more reasons I've mentally blocked and don't even want to try remembering.
      I stick with vendor kernels
      I always thought it strange that those with thousands of dollar invested, can't themselves compile a kernel where all the modules will work. I have been using a Mandrake 8.2 box recently and see it's still at least as much of a problem now as ever before. To even get sound (on an older soundcard) and not an 'overheating' error message, I had to compile a new kernel.
      the Linux kernel was modular long time before FreeBSD
      Well first of all, FreeBSD lkms work, linux modules fail miserably. Secondly, who gives a damn? I much prrefer OSes like Net/OpenBSD that which are plug-n-play. They detect everything and load drivers accordingly. All from a 3MB kernel, with no modules needed, no recompiling to add any features or to improve performance.
      I find the syntax to be much better than that of IPF. I have setup about Linux 50 systems at work and they're very stable, thank you very much.
      Laughable. IPF/PF are undisputed as much better than their Linux counterparts. The BSDs are also undisputably more stable than Linux.

      And I'm not a troll, I'm a pissed-off ex-linux user. I can't understand the logic in so many people using Linux. I've asked and gotten no decent answer as to why this is so.

    36. Re:Does dump work yet by jrwyant · · Score: 1

      For ext2, I'd contrive something like this (for the [Ba]sh shell) to record the attributes:

      for i in `grep ext2 /etc/fstab | awk "{print \\$2}"`; do lsattr -R $i; done > attributes.manifest

      and archive that along with the other files in the .tar archive. Then, cobble together a script to operate on that file to re-set the attributes when you unarchive the .tar file.

      Hackish, yes, but completely doable in the user space, and can be done with whatever archival tool you like (tar, cpio, etc.)

  8. bout time. by _pi-away · · Score: 5, Funny

    When 2.4.18 came out, i thought to myself "well i'll just wait till 2.4.19 comes out to switch to 2.4, shouldn't be more than a month or so."

    Since then i've had to renew my drivers license three times.

    Longest . . . update . . . ever!

    --

    "The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
    1. Re:bout time. by Atzanteol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is a good thing! The 2.4 kernel went through some fast and furious releases. Now that it's officially "stable" (meaning there exists a development branch) it's good to have it slow down. Look at the most recent change log events. Mostly minor bug fixes.
      Kudos to Marcelo for having the patience to release a stable product!

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    2. Re:bout time. by applejacks · · Score: 1

      Where do you live that requires you to renew your drivers liscense ever 2 months. Fork lift liscense? No, oh you ment cdl? Wait.. What are you talking about.

  9. Please explain the issue. by glrotate · · Score: 1

    Why won't:

    find . -print |cpio -ocBv /dev/rmt0

    or some variation work for you?

    1. Re:Please explain the issue. by schon · · Score: 1

      Why won't:

      find . -print |cpio -ocBv /dev/rmt0

      or some variation work for you?


      Because they use the filesystem interface, and the atime will get updated, and I'm guessing this bugs him..

      FWIW, I think Linus is right; if you want to do a complete image, umount the drive and use dd.

    2. Re:Please explain the issue. by mosch · · Score: 2

      This will modify the atime, lose file attributes, ignore ACLs, etc. It will provide an archive, not a backup.

    3. Re:Please explain the issue. by mosch · · Score: 2

      Unmounting the drive and doing a dd is fine. assuming that the hardware I'm backing up stays permanently available, which it will not. Restoring via dd onto non-identical hardware is hit or miss at best.

  10. Re: On Gentoo by Mr+Thinly+Sliced · · Score: 0

    deadonarrival home # uname -a
    Linux deadonarrival.entala.co.uk 2.4.19-gentoo-r7 #8 SMP Thu Aug 1 00:02:37 CEST 2002 i686 AuthenticAMD

    Because, of course, Gentoo comes with 2.4.19.

  11. Hrm. by Jonny+290 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Insert standard Darn-And-I-Just-Finished-Downloading-The-Last-One- Yesterday wisecrack...

    --
    Hey Taco! Looks like you're using the "infinite monkeys and typewriters" scheme to generate Ask Slashdots again...
    1. Re:Hrm. by randomErr · · Score: 1

      Darn-And-I-Just-Finished-Downloading-The-Last-One- Yesterday...

      Mission Complete.
      Hero Yue - Gundam Wing

      --
      You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
    2. Re:Hrm. by sir99 · · Score: 1
      Insert standard Darn-And-I-Just-Finished-Downloading-The-Last-One- Yesterday wisecrack...
      Well then, you're in luck! The one released yesterday is the same as the one released today!

      On the other hand, I downloaded one on Wednesday, and then again yesterday, when Marcello felt the need to release two in a row.

      --
      The ocean parts and the meteors come down
      Laid out in amber, baby.
    3. Re:Hrm. by glwtta · · Score: 2

      finished downloading? geez, it's only about 25 megs, it's not like you wait for it...

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    4. Re:Hrm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, I downloaded one on Wednesday, and then again yesterday, when Marcello felt the need to release two in a row.

      You say this like it's a bad thing, that is his job you know, and we _can_ trust him to make logical decisions in -rc's just as he does in -pre's.

      PS - His name is spelled Marcelo.

    5. Re:Hrm. by kubrick · · Score: 2

      Out here in the real world, some of us are stuck using 28.8K modems.

      Hmmmph.

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
    6. Re:Hrm. by glwtta · · Score: 2
      um, yeah, having broadband (along with, what is it now, about half the US?) means I live in some sort of fantasy world.

      out of curiosity - I keep seeing these 28.8 references, I can understand not being able to get DSL or cable, but why not at least buy a more or less modern modem? 56.6 came out a looong time ago

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    7. Re:Hrm. by kubrick · · Score: 2

      Oh, I own a 56.6 modem, it's just that the line quality here is crappy enough that it always drops out after 10 minutes. So I have to use an older one (actually it's 33.6, not 28.8 -- fat lot of difference that makes).

      That's what a telecommunications monopoly will do for you (Telstra, in Australia) -- as does their anticompetitve restriction of local loop access and bandwidth pricing. I live in a city of over a million people, but apparently it would cost them too much to provide decent services...

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
    8. Re:Hrm. by alan_d_post · · Score: 1

      That's what a telecommunications monopoly will do for you

      Lots of infrastructures don't make sense to run competitively -- who wants dueling water or sewer systems? The trouble with local telecoms is that they are run as for-profit, top-down nasties. Having two competing for-profit, top-down nasty organizations would not necessarily be much better than an for-profit monopoly. In practice, two-corp situations often result in the companies partitioning the market between them, and keeping prices high for both companies.

      What we need is for the telecom workers to run the organizations themselves, so they can actually solve people's problems, rather than try to increase the profit margin.

    9. Re:Hrm. by alan_d_post · · Score: 1

      What we need is for the telecom workers to run the organizations themselves, so they can actually solve people's problems, rather than try to increase the profit margin.

      On second thought, I guess that's the sort of thing you had in mind when you were complaining about the local telecom suppressing coops.

    10. Re:Hrm. by Eil · · Score: 2


      I was stuck with 28.8 dialup internet access for the longest time, so I know how badly it sucks to *deserve* broadband (or even a decent 56k) but still feel like I'm stuck in the early '90s technology-wise.

      Now that I have broadband, I will admit that I've been pretty much spoiled. In a few weeks however, I'm going to have to switch back to 28.8 due to a location, career, and (positive) marital status change. I'm hoping that reverting to a much slower means of internet connection won't be too much of a shock since I spent all those years at 28.8 prior.

      See, with a slow net connection, one truly realizes the value of kernel patches. Larger patches can still take awhile to download, but not the nearly 24 hours that the entire linux kernel source would normally take.

      But with broadband, where downloading an entire kernel can take less than 30 seconds, it's not even worth your time to download 3 to 4 (or more) version patches and then sit there trying to remember the exact command to patch the sources while hoping you didn't just screw yourself by patching the wrong tree* and/or applying the patches out of order, etc etc.

      * Am I the only one who believes that making the kernel source extract into ./linux rather than ./linux-$major.$minor.$pl is just a stupid idea? So far I've not seen one good bit of evidence for why this is superior other than "it's always been done that way."

    11. Re:Hrm. by Eil · · Score: 2


      Hmm, I take back the asterisk note. Someone mentioned a few posts down that starting with 2.4.19, the kernel does in fact extract into a directory with the version number.

    12. Re:Hrm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay ... ready for it ... ?

      Trying to get NAT working over PPTP tunnels and breaking the patch-o-matic incessantly, I decide to get the patchset from 2.4.18 to 2.4.19-rc5. It did not apply cleanly because it turns out that Debian applies patches to their source tree afterall, so I say, "Screw it, I'll take -rc5". Download, patch-o-matic, compile, install. Boot the new kernel, life is sweet. Go home.

      Wake up Saturday to read the 2.4.19 announcement released at 9:57pm. I got home *1/2 hour* before that!

      *grumble* *grumble* *grumble*

      At least nothing actually changed ...

    13. Re:Hrm. by kubrick · · Score: 1

      OK, rephrase that as "part-privatised telecommunications monopoly", with both major parties wanting to sell the rest, and wanting to sell it as a monopoly instead of enforcing some sort of structural separation (services division & technical division, for example).

      They were bastards when they were a "government-owned corporation", and they're still bastards now. Grrrrr. The least they could do, given their dominant position and the inability of the Government to enforce any regulations on them, is use their market power to give us better access and themselves more money -- but no, they'd prefer not to invest any money at all on improving their networks, they're spending it all on Asian telecoms and sports stadiums (A$100m for the naming rights to the "Telstra Dome" -- this when they have some 85% of the market.)

      I'll stop ranting now... :)

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
  12. kernel-package by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 2

    ncftp ftp.us.kernel.org ...
    tar -xvzf linux-2.4.19.tar.gz
    cd linux
    cp ~/kernel/configs/2.4.18 .config
    make oldconfig
    su
    make-kpkg --revision home.1 kernel_image
    make-kpkg modules_image # for alsa, nvidia-glx, plex86
    dpkg -i ../kernel-image-2.4.19_home.1_i386.deb
    dpkg -i ../alsa-modules-2.4.18_0.9+0beta12+3+p0+home1_i386 .deb

    etc.

    Thanks for the good work, Manoj!

  13. Re:neat by Mike+Markley · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually:

    apt-get install kernel-soruce-2.4.19
    tar xvjf /usr/src/kernel-source-2.4.19.tar.bz2
    cd kernel-source-2.4.19
    make menuconfig
    make-kpkg --rootcmd=fakeroot buildpackage
    sudo dpkg -i ../kernel*2.4.19*.deb

    Easy :)

  14. ChangeLog summary anywhere? by plaa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Can anybody here summarize any important changes that went on between 2.4.18 and 2.4.19? This changelog is just a ton of bug fixes between prereleases. Did they do anything interesting with it?

    This is exactly the thing I'd like to see someone make. A simple list of notable changes for the average kernel-compiling Linux user. I've been wanting such a list for several years now, but have never seen one.

    Something in the form of, "If you which to use hardware X with option Y, you may wish to upgrade, as this version adds beta support for it. If you use option Z you should definately upgrade, there are many bugfixes. ..."

    Is there any kind of ChangeLog summary available anywhere? And if not, why? I shouldn't think it would be such a big deal for someone with some knowledge of the kernel.

    --

    I doubt, therefore I may be.
    1. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by rizzuh · · Score: 1

      PHP has a separate NEWS and CHANGELOG file. News highlights the changes in human-readable format. Changelog, as with any project, doesn't.

    2. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Pretzalzz · · Score: 3, Funny

      There is a summary at the very end of the Changelog, or are you like me and the summary wasn't very explanatory? Then, uhhh, I don't know what to say. Though the summary was understandable enough that I know that more explanation probably wouldn't help my understanding much...

    3. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by alue · · Score: 2, Informative
    4. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by lakeland · · Score: 1, Interesting
      This is the stable release of the kernel (yes, I know you knew that already). That means it contains fixes, bug patches etc. for various exotic things (less exotic things would have been fixed before .19) and it doesn't contain any new significant features.

      Now you say you want a changelog? And how exactly is someone to produce a changelog that shows you which bugfixes will apply to you? i386 only? Only affecting popular chipsets? Only affecting new hardware? Old hardware?

      I guess my point is: There is no reason not to upgrade to 2.4.19. Unlike a major upgrade (e.g. 2.2 to 2.4) this is very, very unlikely to break anything.

    5. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To see what exciting new features there are in the kernel, I just look at Configure.help portion of the patch.

    6. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://lwn.net/ generally does the best job. Hopefully they will stay in business.

    7. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me guess, you've been through the Army's sysadmin course....

      I can see it now, 10000 script kiddies start working on exploits for WebStar because of a /. post....

      Some people need to learn when to STFU!

    8. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Martigan80 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What is so funny here is that people were bitching because there was not enough info, now they're bitching because it's too much. When will it end?

      --
      This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
    9. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2

      "A simple list of notable changes for the average kernel-compiling Linux user."

      I think the biggest change that was made to the kernel update was the upgrade in version number. I wouldn't trivialize this update, it did earn it quite a bit of visibility on Slashdot!

      *Hopes people have a sense of humor today.*

    10. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's more stable. Linus put in a shitty VM in 2.4.x. now every minor release will be much more.

    11. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Secure42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ok, just my 2 cents.

      Orinoco driver updated from 0.09b to 0.11b
      If you are using wireless network card (specially lucent and similars), you could think about upgrading your kernel, there have been many improvements and bug fixes

      More info: http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/OrinocoDr iver

    12. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by suwain_2 · · Score: 2
      My "bitch" is that it's not too understandable to the "average" user. I don't care if there's a single sentence or 120 pages -- it's *way* over my head.

      For example, I have a dual Athlon system... I still wonder if that bug in agpgart or whatever has been fixed. But, as a non-kernel-hacker, I don't have a clue if it has or not.

      I think a good solution would simply be an alternative site for non-kernel-hackers. Obviously, having the kernel.org changelogs be newbie-friendly (well, I'm not really a newbie -- I've been using Linux for several years; I just don't do kernel development... but I digress) would be a huge mistake.

      It really has nothing to do with quantity, it has to do with comprehendability. Perhaps if there are two changelogs -- the current one, for developers; along with a second one, that provides more of a less-technical overview of who should/shouldn't upgrade, in plain English.

      --
      ________________________________________________
      suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
    13. Re:ChangeLog summary anywhere? by Odinson · · Score: 2
      My "bitch" is that it's not too understandable to the "average" user. I don't care if there's a single sentence or 120 pages -- it's *way* over my head.

      This is definatly a legitimate concern, and a great reason to stick to the kernels in your Linux distrabuton. You(or somebody) is paying for them to make this easy for you. I afraid of the docs getting dumbed down to much though, it will slow down the kernel writer/maintainers/bugfixers even more.

      Linux kernel watching can be a spectators sport but not a occasional one. Mundane experimental kernel arguments become key conflicts in the stable series later. Linux Weekly News has a great kernel page with intermediate explanations every week. Good thing they get to live a few more weeks to live.

  15. damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by lingqi · · Score: 5, Funny
    Since then i've had to renew my drivers license three times.

    for about three minutes i sat wondering: who the fuck do you buy your hardware from that actually *license* their drivers, and requires you to *renew* them? I didn't know Microsoft started manufacturing important PC components...

    then it hit me.

    sigh... goes to show that friday evenings are best spent away from the computer for best results.

    --

    My life in the land of the rising sun.

    1. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by Elbereth · · Score: 3, Funny

      I had the exact same reaction, but I didn't even realize he was talking about cars until I read your message.

      Yeah, yeah, I need to get out more.

    2. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by qubit64 · · Score: 1

      I didn't realize he was talking about cars until I read your message and was specifically told, so I guess I'm even worse off.

      --
      "Save me jebus!" - Homer Simpson (btw, I'm probably talkin out of me arse)
    3. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by glwtta · · Score: 2

      oh! cars!!!

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    4. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys are killing me...

      -mol

    5. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 2, Funny

      what's a car?

      --
      ^_^
    6. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn Drunk Drivers.

    7. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by glwtta · · Score: 2
      What's a truck?

      I love that :)

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    8. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by Thyrsus · · Score: 4, Funny

      A car returns the first element of a list. A cdr returns the remaining elements.

    9. Re:damn... did anyone else mis-read this? by affenmann · · Score: 4, Funny

      > A car returns the first element of a list. A cdr returns the remaining elements.

      And you need a license for this? Now I know why LISP is out fashion.

  16. Anyone else notice that... by randomErr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anyone else notice that in the last couple of days Microsoft's ad for Visual Studio .Net keeps coming up in the rotation when ever there is Linux story.

    Wonder how much that cost them to buy those keywords? Could C. Taco be enjoying a quiet vacation on an island somewhere?

    --
    You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
    1. Re:Anyone else notice that... by /dev/trash · · Score: 1
      Wonder how much that cost them to buy those keywords? Could C. Taco be enjoying a quiet vacation on an island somewhere?

      Taco is just an employee, all the money goes to VA Software.

    2. Re:Anyone else notice that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I saw it at sourceforge!!!

    3. Re:Anyone else notice that... by danpbrowning · · Score: 2

      Yes, I was very surprised to see that on Slashdot. I wonder if it means the MS-bashing by the editors will be reduced (actually I haven't noticed it much lately...).

      Truely, it is ironic, I wonder why there hasn't been any public word about it.

      --
      Daniel
    4. Re:Anyone else notice that... by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it means the MS-bashing by the editors will be reduced

      There do seem to have been a lot of "Linux is dead" articles posted latley though. If I was just a tiny bit more paranoid...

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
    5. Re:Anyone else notice that... by Anonymous+Bullard · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      One thing that I've found a little surprising has been the rise of MicrosoftNBC as the #1 preferred news source by Slashdot.

      Not only are the M$NBC articles usually rehashed versions of news already scooped elsewhere, but pointing out Slashdot editors' strange fascination with promoting M$NBC tends to result in downmodding.

      I'm not suggesting any comprehensive conspiracy, but considering Microsoft's favoured modes of covert action (they turned astro-turfing into an art form), I'd be surprised if we didn't have microserfs here trying to create divisions.

      --

      Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?

    6. Re:Anyone else notice that... by Inoshiro · · Score: 2

      " Anyone else notice that in the last couple of days Microsoft's ad..."

      Nope, haven't seen a thing.

      --
      --
      Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  17. Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by strredwolf · · Score: 1, Informative

    I just tried just the patch to .19, and it's blocking on this driver. Pulling the full code to confirm we need Alan again...

    --

    --
    # Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
    $Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
    1. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think Alan is so much better than Marcelo, then why the fuck don't you use the latest -ac and stop your bitching?

      Give Marcelo a break, he's doing a fabulous job.

    2. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by strredwolf · · Score: 2

      Let me know when you understand SARCASM tags...

      --

      --
      # Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
      $Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
    3. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by superpeach · · Score: 1

      Works fine here (yes, I do use the AIC7xxx driver :) ). Which patch did you use? I got the bz2.

    4. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which sarcasm tags might those be? Troll. Please mod down.

    5. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by ahaning · · Score: 1

      I just tried just the patch to .19, and it's blocking on this driver. Pulling the full code to confirm we need Alan again...

      Pardon me, but, what <SARCASM> tags? I don't see any in your post.

      --
      Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
    6. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      _What_ sarcasm? Have you lost your fucking mind?

    7. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by ashpool7 · · Score: 1

      Glad to know it compiled. I just hope those AIC7xxx patches work.

      I can't get 2.4 stable with my pure scsi system (hdd, cdrom, etc). Using a 2940U2W. It bombs when installing Drake 8.2. Slackware 8.1 will go on (with segfaults in the package install) but you can't compile a thing with it.

    8. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by shlong · · Score: 3, Informative

      I can't get 2.4 stable with my pure scsi system (hdd, cdrom, etc). Using a 2940U2W. It bombs when installing Drake 8.2. Slackware 8.1 will go on (with segfaults in the package install) but you can't compile a thing with it.

      Care to give details? Do you have a console log by chance? I'm slowly taking on maintenance of this driver, so please feel free to contact me with these kinds of problems. My email is available from my URL.

      --
      Cat, the other, tastier white meat.
    9. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by wp14 · · Score: 2, Informative
      ashpool7 writes:
      (with segfaults in the package install) but you can't compile a thing with it.
      Your problem is almost certainly a SCSI hardware problem. The AIC7xxx is one of the most widely used of all SCSI drivers and if it were broken there would be a huge outcry.

      It may be a bore but here are some things to check:

      • termination - using proper terminators for LVD? for SE? Both ends of bus terminated? only ends of the bus terminated?
      • cables - quality cables of proper impedance? correct cables for LVD, for SE?
      • general - are you mixing LVD and SE? is bus length too long? all jumpers settings configured correctly on all devices on SCSI bus? bus speed set too fast for length?
      • connectors - properly and tightly seated? oxidized connectors? remove and re-seat them a couple times to break oxidation.
      • term power - are you sure that your bus is getting termination power? Check term power voltage at each end of the bus? are term power fuses blown on controller or external devices (yes, it happens )?
      You may be in denial. But it is not the kernel that is broken. Somewhere there is a fault in your SCSI hardware configuration. I tell this to you as a grizzled SCSI veteran. I've blamed software and various kernels and *always* in the end it turned out to be a problem with *my* configuration. There are a whole lot of variables. It sometimes takes a little more effort to run SCSI. . But IDE is not without its own set of problems either.

      Use your best debugging skills. You can do it!

    10. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by mccalli · · Score: 2, Informative
      ... it is not the kernel that is broken. Somewhere there is a fault in your SCSI hardware configuration.

      Certainly not. A driver's response to broken hardware should never be to segfault. Sounds like both the configuration and the driver need work. Sounds also like this person is a good one to speak to regarding testing which improves the driver.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    11. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by trollhead · · Score: 1

      Linux version 2.4.19-xfs (root@localhost.localdomain) (gcc version 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-85)) #1 Sam Aug 3 11:05:41 CEST 2002
      [...]
      scsi0 : Adaptec AIC7XXX EISA/VLB/PCI SCSI HBA DRIVER, Rev 6.2.8
      <Adaptec aic7890/91 Ultra2 SCSI adapter>
      aic7890/91: Ultra2 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 32/253 SCBs
      [...]

      I'm not quite sure what you're talking about...

    12. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I'm hoping this solves some of the problems I've been having with my CDRecorder.

    13. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by wp14 · · Score: 1
      Ian (mccalli) writes:
      Certainly not. A driver's response to broken hardware should never be to segfault.
      You are wrong Ian. The flaw in your logic is your failure to consider that the SCSI driver is responsible for causing executable code to be loaded. When the driver in question loads executable code, bad hardware can cause segmentation and other faults. Even a perfect, totally bug-free driver is susceptible.

      It helps to remember that the SCSI bus is a transmission line, not an ideal digital bus. A bad hardware configuration causes a segfault when some of the data from the disk is corrupted as it passes through the SCSI bus. When the corrupted data happens to be executable code it can fault for several reasons:

      • corruption results in illegal pointer.
      • corruption results in an illegal jump target.
      • corruption results in an illegal instruction.
      With SCSI, one of the first symptoms of improper termination is spurious segmentation faults. Since there are no widespread reports of serious AIC7xxx problems, and since SCSI hardware misconfiguration is by and large the most common cause for SCSI problems, the odds are stacked against this being a driver problem.
    14. Re:Adaptec AIC7xxx driver broken with patch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I hope so 2. I care deeply about your CDRecorder.

  18. Re:If linux is really not pro-terrorist, why the G by Bremen24601 · · Score: 2

    Ok, I'll bite.

    I didn't actually manage to get through the whole thing (about the first ten points), but basically they all seemed to deal with how the GPL could infect your software and impose certain responsibilities on you. Of course almost all of these points only affect you only if you actually develop your own inhouse programs. Horror of horrors, you can't "borrow" the code and do with it whatever you want ala BSD. I'd like to know how many companies use Windows source in their programs ;0)

    Basically, this just creates FUD in the minds of business execs who don't understand software licenses to begin with. Most just pay for the software and use it as is. Very few would even think to ask if they could modify the program themselves! So this whole thing can be safely ignored by them (well, when they pirate the software by using it on home computers they'd have to remember not to copy the source, otherwise they're not breaking any laws!)

    So unless we actually modify the software we run to begin with (and I assume since this is an MS doc, they're trying to get you to use MS products), how would using a GPL program be any different for the majority of users? For the minority who still write their own stuff, they should darn well be familiar with software licenses already!

    --
    Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the national debt. --Herbert Hoover
  19. Directory name... by Atzanteol · · Score: 5, Informative

    Anybody notice? Whenever you *used* to untar a new kernel tarball, it created a directory 'linux'. Now it creates 'linux-2.4.19'.

    'Bout time! I always hated creating a temporary directory to uncompress to...

    --
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

    - Charles Darwin
    1. Re:Directory name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why create a temporary directory? I just symlinked 'linux' to 'linux-2.4.9'. When it's time to upgrade, remove the symlink, unpack the source, do 'mv linux linux-2.4.10', then symlink linux to 2.4.10. This way is much better though, because if I forgot to remove the linux symlink, my old tree would get written over. It never happened, but I bet it would be messy.

    2. Re:Directory name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you used the patches like a good linuxer, this wouldn't be an issue.

      You don't need a temporary directory, either. tar jxvf linux-2.4.x.tar.gz; mv linux linux-2.4.x

    3. Re:Directory name... by BetaJim · · Score: 2
      It's good to know that the maintainers are doing this. Having the extraction directory be linux/ has cause me to blow away a kernel tree once or twice...

      --

      "Drug related crime" is a misnomer, "prohibition related crime" is the more accurate and correct phrase.

    4. Re:Directory name... by belg4mit · · Score: 1

      tar -C is your friend

      --
      Were that I say, pancakes?
    5. Re:Directory name... by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 2

      And here I always just used

      tar tfz linux-x.x.xx.tar.gz | head

      to see if it would uncompress to linux/ or linux-x.x.xx/ and if it shows the former, simply:

      mkdir linux-x.x.xx
      rm linux
      ln -s linux-x.x.xx linux
      tar xfz linux-x.x.xx.tar.gz

      Not too bad, if the result of the first command shows the tarbal did extract to linux-x.x.xx (which I don't recall it ever doing), the process is pretty much the same, but in a different order:

      tar xfz linux-x.x.xx.tar.gz
      rm linux
      ln -s linux-x.x.xx linux

      and the only think that missing from the previous list of the commands is the mkdir command. So, I really wouldn't consider it that much of a difference either way.

    6. Re:Directory name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..or if you have a newer tar that refuses to unpack over a symlink...

    7. Re:Directory name... by kasperd · · Score: 1

      It has actually been that way since 2.5.4, but it is new to the 2.4 series. Now I gotta remember to change the script I use to extract the source and apply a ton of patches.

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    8. Re:Directory name... by ianezz · · Score: 2
      Why create a temporary directory? I just symlinked 'linux' to 'linux-2.4.9'.

      Linus said that is a relly bad idea if you compile things by yourself, but I admit I don't know if that is still a valid argument.

    9. Re:Directory name... by Fluffy+the+Cat · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, that's talking about /usr/include/linux being a symlink to /usr/src/linux/include/linux. Having that as a symlink is a bad idea - /usr/include/linux should be supplied by your C library and match whatever kernel your C library was built against. Having /usr/src/linux be a symlink to your current kernel source is unlikely to break stuff.

    10. Re:Directory name... by afairch · · Score: 1
      Actually it talks about both. If you read the last three paragraphs, Linus specifically talks about the whole /usr/src/linux mess.
      And yes, this is what I do. My /usr/src/linux still has the old 2.2.13 header files, even though I haven't run a 2.2.13 kernel in a _loong_ time. But those headers were what glibc was compiled against, so those headers are what matches the library object files.

      And this is actually what has been the suggested environment for at least the last five years. I don't know why the symlink business keeps on living on, like a bad zombie. Pretty much every distribution still has that broken symlink, and people still remember that the linux sources should go into "/usr/src/linux" even though that hasn't been true in a _loong_ time.

      I must admit however that I have until now always compiled new kernels in /usr/src/linux.
  20. Win2k by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what do I press to install this in Win2k?

  21. Labels... by anakog · · Score: 5, Funny

    (02/06/06 1.537.2.10)
    [PATCH] Re: mislabelled label patch

    No pun intended...

  22. Re:If linux is really not pro-terrorist, why the G by stinky+wizzleteats · · Score: 1

    Your comment is very interesting. Can you provide an e-mail address or web link where I could learn more?

    ...must ... not .... laugh...

  23. oxymorons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    stable linux

    1. Re:oxymorons by vga_init · · Score: 1

      You're joking, right? ::grumble grumble:: BSD nuts... -_-'

    2. Re:oxymorons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly a troll, and even if it were true (which we all know it isn't), that would be an oxymoron (note he/she used plural). ;)

  24. funny. I have been using it for days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am using Gentoo's linux release 7 of the 2.4.19 kernel.

    1. Re:funny. I have been using it for days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gentoo is the rawks!

    2. Re:funny. I have been using it for days by delta407 · · Score: 3, Informative

      gentoo-sources-2.4.19-r7 is based on a kernel prepatch, not the kernel that was released today.

      However, an updated vanilla-sources ebuild has been in the Gentoo CVS repository for 25 minutes and should make it to the mirrors shortly, if it hasn't already. Then, you can grab the new source tree by typing "emerge vanilla-sources"; or, if you're already using it, emerge -u will fetch the new copy.

    3. Re:funny. I have been using it for days by foonf · · Score: 2

      Gentoo has been calling their kernels "2.4.19-rX" since 2.4.19-pre1 came out. Its meaningless. Other distributions have also been tracking the 2.4.19 preleases, but they have kept the version number at 2.4.18. If you download that gentoo source you'll notice it actually notice that it starts with a 2.4.18 tarball and then applies a huge patch.

      --

      "(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
    4. Re:funny. I have been using it for days by packeteer · · Score: 1

      2.4.19-rc5 IS 2.4.19 ... it was deemed good enough and renamed... sorry but no difference... if you have rc5 no need to beat a dead horse and /. kernel.org

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    5. Re:funny. I have been using it for days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And your point is that what Gentoo calls a 2.4.19 kernel is in fact a 2.4.19 kernel?

    6. Re:funny. I have been using it for days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be surprising considering 2.4.19-rc5 was released early in the morning on August 2nd, and the chances of you people "using it for days" is nil.

    7. Re:funny. I have been using it for days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops make that August 1st.

    8. Re:funny. I have been using it for days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rc5 was released on August 1st. That was two days ago.

  25. Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by _john_i_ · · Score: 1

    I see one change log item related to AMD processors. Does anyone know if this or any other fix in this kernel fixes the nvidia/amd lockup problem (which can be worked around in 2.4.18 with the mem=nopentium boot parameter)? _john_

    1. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hope so.

      I've never seen this problem myself, but I added the mem= option "just in case"(TM) ever since the probelm was first announced.

      I recently tried 19-rc3-ac3 to try out some video4linux stuff. Since then I've lost the ability to use sound in quake. Perhaps the kernel gurus fixed things up too well, I thought. Now I drop back to 18-pre* and have lost quake sound altogether :(

    2. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by _john_i_ · · Score: 1

      I only got the lockup while playing OpenGL games, and then just occasionally. The mem= option definitely fixed it, with no real visible loss of performance, though I haven't run any benchmarks. Maybe I'll give 2.4.19 without it a whirl and see what happens. _john_

    3. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't count on that being fixed anytime soon. It supposedly requires a major restructuring of memory mapping code.

    4. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by crimsun · · Score: 3, Informative

      No Linux kernel branch currently contains fixes for the issue you noted. Folks from SuSE, AMD, and Nvidia are working toward a solution that will, as another post mentioned, require major restructuring of how memory is mapped (not to mention the issue of cacheline flushes, etc.). I think you have a better chance of seeing a workaround in 2.5. (I doubt the "mem=nopentium" append fixes it, perhaps lessens the chance of an erroneous state in the cacheline. Search lkml archives for details.)

    5. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hi

      the mem= option definitly do not help (me)
      I have an nforce/Duron board combination, and using
      - vmware needs network traffic to hang
      - kde3-konqueror about 2 webpages to hang

      Of course I will try .19 but don't think it will get better, and reverting to non nvidia drivers won't work for me, as the nforce needs a nvidia driver for net & sound :-(

      bying an apple next time .

      H.K.

    6. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      Uh oh .... I just bought an nVidia card for my PC because I thought it'd work well with Linux - and I have an AMD Duron. Could you please tell me more about this problem?

    7. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically, AGP is broken if you use an AMD motherboard. Disable AGP and it should work.

    8. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mem= works fine, recompiling your kernel for k7 CPU also works. and you are simply ... a troll. Please mod him down!

    9. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by puetzk · · Score: 1

      to be more precise, there's a small (but nonzero) chance that bad AGP cacheing will bite you and cause a crash due to odd athlon cache behavior (not sure if duron works the same way, but I'd expect it to). mem=nopentium will force off large page mode and make the bug much, much rarer (if you see it with this on, buy a lotto ticket). I thought 2.4.19 did this automatically now but nobody else seems to think so, so I may be wrong.

      The bug affects windows also, current drivers supposedly work around it the same way mem=nopentium does (by disabling 4meg memory pageing for pages overlapping with AGP). So, though not technically a 'fix' the workound is seems to be quite adequate to prevent the bug from manifesting in real life...

      --
      The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
    10. Re:Does this fix the nvidia/amd lockup? by _john_i_ · · Score: 1

      Don't sweat it. It's not a problem at all as long as you put "mem=nopentium" in your lilo boot parameters. As I said in my previous post, there is no noticeable performance degridation. _john_

  26. Not broken, but must "make dep" before anything. by strredwolf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wrong bug. It compiled, but folks need to do a "make dep" after an "make oldconfig"

    --

    --
    # Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
    $Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
  27. Last minute?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There were no changes between 19-rc5 and 19-final, and fewer and fewer changes between the -rc's.

  28. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when does changing the kernel break anything?

  29. Re:Warning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The last change to inode.c was in February. If that's last minute, the minutes certainly are getting longer.

  30. 5... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Man, that took about 5 MONTHS! I can't comprehend the maddness!

  31. actually it all goes to the DA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to keep him from prosecuting VA linux for stock fraud . just kidding.

  32. 2.4.19 for Debian Woody? by Brummund · · Score: 1

    Will there be an 'official' 2.4.19 kernel image package for Debian Woody?

    1. Re:2.4.19 for Debian Woody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes. you can buy the official kernel from a debian developer.

    2. Re:2.4.19 for Debian Woody? by Sivar · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, you've gotta wait until 2.4.19's been tested for a few years.

      --
      Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
    3. Re:2.4.19 for Debian Woody? by ggeens · · Score: 1

      Will there be an 'official' 2.4.19 kernel image package for Debian Woody?

      No. Woody is stable now, meaning that no new packages can be added, and updates are only allowed in case of very serious problems.

      Just take the package from testing (Sarge) when it appears.

      --
      WWTTD?
    4. Re:2.4.19 for Debian Woody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ive got a woody for you !

  33. Re:Not broken, but must "make dep" before anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amateur, got any other insightful remarks to make?

  34. Linux 2.4.19 boxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Imagine a Beowolf Cluster of THESE!!!

  35. I Agree With This Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I also agree with website.

    Thank you for your time.

  36. Re:Warning! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Proof that the moderation system doesn't work. Informative my fscking ass.

  37. Outdated? by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

    What do you mean, I should upgrade my 2400bps modem?

    --
    !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    1. Re:Outdated? by m0l · · Score: 1

      Nah. Save your money.

  38. Re: On Gentoo by _Knots · · Score: 1

    Erhm... no, sorry, 2.4.19 is out NOW. Yes, I run Gentoo, and yes, it's confusing as fsck. 2.4.19-gentoo-r7 is actually based on 2.4.19-pre5, if memory serves.

    --
    Anarchy$ dd if=/dev/random of=~/.signature bs=120 count=1
  39. Great mirror advice! by wackybrit · · Score: 0, Troll
    If possible use a mirror.
    Someone should let Alan Cox know about that one!
  40. Re:Why? by Zapper · · Score: 0

    he he, and add in those l33t backdors at the same time...

    --
    So much to do, so little bandwidth.
    --
    Try Mozilla
  41. Re:neat by Horizon_99 · · Score: 1

    Can you explain the last two lines and the advantage of doing that instead of what was mentionned in the original post?

  42. Favourite changelog entry: by Spooky+Possum · · Score: 3, Funny

    (02/07/17 1.642)
    [PATCH] PATCH: personality clashes

    If only they were all that easy to fix ...

  43. Re:neat by freebsd45 · · Score: 1

    I like FreeBSD's method much better:

    cd /usr/src
    cvsup -z /etc/cvsupfile
    make buildkernel && make installkernel && fastboot

  44. Re:Bet it has more Exploits in it than Mac OS 9x,8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    neither has my fucking microwave.

  45. Also... by ZorinLynx · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you are at a University, use a mirror located at another University. Chances are the traffic will travel over Internet2 at ridiculous speeds, and not strain your University's (usually) clogged commodity Internet link.

    I got 1.42Mbytes/sec from U of Wisconsin to FIU, myself.

    1. Re:Also... by LinuxHam · · Score: 2

      Informative??

      What ever happened to staying within your University's network and never hitting the any Internet link, traditional or Internet2??

      Then, your bottleneck will be the slowest link between your dorm and the server. (kids, this doesn't count if you live in off-campus housing and have a cable modem) And FYI, I live in Pennsy, and often get over 2 Mbit/s with Red Carpet from Univ of Michigan via Comcast.

      --
      Intelligent Life on Earth
  46. Is ext3 best used in 2.4 only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry for being off topic.

    I'd like to use ext3. I would not like to apply a third party patch to any kernel. Does that mean I must use 2.4.X, and can not use 2.2.X? Thanks in advance

    1. Re:Is ext3 best used in 2.4 only? by puetzk · · Score: 1

      ext3 is available only as a separate patch for 2.2 kernels, and that will not change. If you want to use it, you're really best off upgrading to 2.4. If you want to use it without patching, you'll have to use 2.4 kernels. If you're really interested in feature work like ext3, you probably want to anyway.

      --
      The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
  47. somebody mod parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This strredwolf character must be a karma whore or something. I'm wondering how he even managed to patch his kernel with his skill level.

    1. Re:somebody mod parent up! by m0l · · Score: 1

      I have laughed more tonight reading all this stuff than I have in two weeks!

  48. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  49. I donno by twitter · · Score: 1, Troll
    Dump? Thanks for the letter from Linus telling me not to use something I never heard of.

    Let me try to be helpful. Combinations of tar find and grep work well for me.

    basic tar syntax:

    tar cvx archive_name.tar file_path_1 file_path_2 ... to create archive_name.tar with all files in path.

    tar xvf archive_name.tar to restore. the .tar is optional of course, but it helps me.

    useful tar options:

    -u, update to only add new or modified files.

    -G, old style incrimental

    -g, new style incrimental

    -z, gzip files

    Combined with find and grep and put into a chron job, this is a very powerful backup tool. For example something like:

    tar cvu archive.tar `find | grep patern`

    performed at regular intervals does a great job.

    Tell me about dump.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:I donno by Mr.+GuySmiley · · Score: 1

      Dump has the concept of levels. A level 1 dump would be only the changes to a filesystem since its last level 0 dump, and so on.

    2. Re:I donno by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > tar cvu archive.tar `find | grep patern`

      thanks for the tar tutorial, from someone who doesnt even know how to use find thats really useful.

      loser.

  50. From the changelog by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 3, Funny

    (02/07/30 1.659)
    PATCH More -ac merge

    Sweet, now my system will scream "FIRST BOOT!!!!" at me when I turn it on. :)

    --
    Everything will be taken away from you.
  51. Re:neat by spauldo · · Score: 1

    It makes the kernel a debian package, which gives you the benefits of package management.

    Not a real big deal, but nice to have in certain situations.

    --
    Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
  52. Re:neat by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 5, Informative

    Don't use LILO, use Grub! There is absolutely no reason for anyone to subject themselves to LILO any more now that we have Grub. Imagine: filename tab-completion, in a bootloader! Since grub can read your filesystems, you'll never be stuck needing to use a rescue disk if there is still a valid kernel somewhere on your HD. If you mess up the upgrade, you won't hose your system as long as you didn't delete your old kernel.

    --
    main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  53. Re:Is this the famous/infamous one with.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    err...which unfree stuff is that?

  54. Re:If linux is really not pro-terrorist, why the G by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's funny that Microsoft never released a document explaining their EULAs this thoroughly
    well said.

  55. Re:If linux is really not pro-terrorist, why the G by noda132 · · Score: 1

    Of course almost all of these points only affect you only if you actually develop your own inhouse programs.

    I'll bite too...

    That's dead wrong. You can do whatever you want as long as you license your in-house programs GPL. What's wrong with that? You don't have to give them to anybody, so you don't have to give away your source! There's absolutely no reason to worry about it.

    So you're even more right than you think ;)

  56. fix for broken PowerVR driver by Nomad128 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Hey all,

    Assuming someone else on this list was, like me, silly enough to buy a PowerVR Kyro-based graphics accelerator, here's a fix for a compile bug that I got w/ kernel 2.4.19 and gcc 3.1:

    drm/pvr_drm_vm.h, line 138, change to:

    physical = (unsigned long)page_address(pte_page( pte ));

    1. Re:fix for broken PowerVR driver by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's broken is Linux changing its API every
      ten seconds.

    2. Re:fix for broken PowerVR driver by agdv · · Score: 1

      I have the kernel (2.4.19) and haven't been able to find the file you say (drm/pvr_drm_vm.h). Are you talking about the same kernel? Or is it in some patch (-ac, etc)?

    3. Re:fix for broken PowerVR driver by Nomad128 · · Score: 1

      It's in the PowerVR drivers for Kyro-based graphics boards, available at www.powervr.com. Closed source; the distributed tarball just links in the precompiled shared lib's, like nvidia drivers.

  57. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Grub no speaky the language. I think it uses esperanto to be more universal or something.

  58. Modules? by evilviper · · Score: 1, Troll

    Great!!! I always love when a new kernel comes out so I can deal with a completely different set of modules having 'unresolved symbols' and being impossible to load/use.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:Modules? by crouchingpenguin · · Score: 1

      egads!

    2. Re:Modules? by EllF · · Score: 2

      Because you must, must, must have the latest version? Bah.

      Anyways - you might be able to get around that problem by not enabling versioning information on all modules - I've resolved a fair share of "unresolved symbols" problems by doing so in the past, most recently with my webcam.

      --
      We who were living are now dying
      With a little patience
    3. Re:Modules? by teeqemm · · Score: 1

      Try this: cd /usr/src/linux-2.4.19 cp .config /tmp make mrproper cp /tmp/.config . make oldconfig make depend bzImage modules modules_install... (I think it's mentioned in the kernel faq)

    4. Re:Modules? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you should try to upgrade your binutils.....

    5. Re:Modules? by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Doesn't it strike you as... crappy... that with a piece of software that is getting so much financial support, and tons of programmers working on it, that this happens at all?

      I've used Linux and FreeBSD for some time. With Linux, I've never been able to compile a kernel where all the modules worked. With FreeBSD, I've never had a kernel where even a single kernel module didn't work. Just pointing out a fact.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  59. For those wanting to build under debian by Rufus211 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, I've seen a few instructions for debian, but they're either wrong or not comented, so I'll try my own also.

    First, get the sources. I don't see them in the debian tree yet, so get them from kernel.org yourself. Put it in /usr/src/linux or whever your favorite place is.

    To compile (all in /usr/src/linux):
    # optional: tells debian to apply any debianized patches (eg. preempt, ReiserFS, XFS, whatever)
    # very important to do *before* config, or else you'll be configuring and building different things
    export PATCH_THE_KERNEL=yes
    make-kpkg --append-to-version "-me" -rev test.1 --initrd debian
    # configure the kernel as you chose
    cp /boot/config-2.4.18 .config
    make oldconfig # or x/menuconfig
    # build the kernel image
    make-kpkg --append-to-version "-me" -rev test.1 --initrd kernel_image
    # optional: build debianized modules (eg. nvidia, lirc, alsa)
    make-kpkg --append-to-version "-me" -rev test.1 --initrd modules_image
    # install the resulting .deb's
    cd ..
    dpkg -i *2.4.19-me*.deb

    Explination of make-kpkg options:
    --apend-to-version: optional, but a good idea. Makes the kernel version into 2.4.19-me and avoids any conflicts by installing to /lib/modules/2.4.19-me, /boot/vmlinux-2.4.19-me, etc
    -rev: needed for the debs. good as long as it has some number in it
    --initrd: tell it to build the initial ram disk (/boot/initrd.img-2.4.19-me). Not sure if it's really needed, but all debian kernels have one so I figure might as well use it.

    I'm aware that not all of the options are needed on all of the commands, but I figure for safty and consistency's sake, to just leave it as is.

    Hope this helps someone.

    1. Re:For those wanting to build under debian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rm -fr /usr/src

      Do it at $HOME!

    2. Re:For those wanting to build under debian by uhoreg · · Score: 1

      Or, if you want to build as a normal user, put "fakeroot" before each make-kpkg (i.e. "fakeroot make-kpkg ..."). If you're building as a normal user, obviously you won't have write access to /usr/src, so you'll have to tell make-kpkg where to find the module sources: set MODULE_LOC to the base directory of the module sources.

      --

      To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three persons, two of them absent.

    3. Re:For those wanting to build under debian by Rufus211 · · Score: 1

      You could do that, or you can add yourself to group src (`adduser rufus src`). That way you have write access to /usr/src and can do stuff without messing with fakeroot, but if something is already there owned as root, you can't touch it.

    4. Re:For those wanting to build under debian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Add yourself to group src, as Rufus211 indicates, and use make-kpkg --rootcmd fakeroot.

  60. Don't forget to check the signatures by David+McBride · · Score: 5, Informative

    Having a trojaned SSH build script was bad enough.

    You *really* don't want a compromised kernel. Use the signatures.

  61. Re:If linux is really not pro-terrorist, why the G by Bremen24601 · · Score: 1

    um... if a program is licensed under the GPL, you can't do whatever you want. You can only do whatever you want as long as you don't violate the GPL. Which means you can't do some things you might want to do... So if you want to do them, you can't do anything you want.

    So yes, I'm even more right than I thought (but I did think I was that right... ) So maybe you're just wrong?? But you're right, you don't have to release GPL programs (big issue with online chess servers).

    Hrm, I believe I shouldn't post comments at 3AM judging by what I've just written... of course why I was bored enough to respond to the orginal troll is beyond me... I think I'll go play some chess on FICS (www.freechess.org).

    --
    Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the national debt. --Herbert Hoover
  62. ACPI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I have had an Arm CY-13 with PhoenixBIOS for about 3-4 months. Right now I have zilch ACPI support for 2.4.18. Is there anyone who has tried the ACPI with the new kernel? If so, does it work at all?

  63. rsync access to source files not tarballs by Kalak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One thing I really with kernel releases had was a way to rsync/cvs/bk whatever to the release kernel. That way only the files that have been changed get sent. kernel.org's rsync is setup to let you mirror the site, but not the individual kernel. I'm thinking of the kind of access provided to the kernel sources on the penguinppc.org project. That way, I can start with any bastardized kernel source and arrive at a pristine new source dir without using up the bandwith to download the whole thing. Heck, I can even exclude the architectures I'm not using, saving even more bandwidth.

    Anyone know if/where to get this kind of access to the kernels?

    --
    I am, and always will be, an idiot. Karma: Coma (mostly effected by .hack)
    1. Re:rsync access to source files not tarballs by Eil · · Score: 2


      That's not an altogether bad idea, but I think the kernel patches provide for most people's needs in this area.

      I myself just keep one recent "pure" linus tarball and whatever patches I might want to apply. A few months ago, I was testing out various versions of the 2.4 series and ended up downloading every kernel with a patchlevel divisible by 5. I then proceeded to download whichever version patches I needed to get the kernel version that I was looking for. Saved myself a ton of time doing this.

      I think it would be great if support for architectures other than x86 were provided as patches instead of the main tree, but I suspect doing this would be a huge pain initially (going through dozens of megs of code to figure out what's x86 and what's not) and only add additional overhead to development of the kernel.

      The KISS principle applies pretty strongly to OS kernel development and even stronger to the largest OS kernel in existance. (Yes, that'd be Linux for the humour-impared) :P

  64. Re:neat by charon.de · · Score: 1

    "unbzip2, untar etc...
    make menuconfig
    make dep clean bzImage modules modules install
    cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/newkern
    lilo
    lilo -q"

    You and the other posters missed the most important step!

    less /usr/src/linux/Documentation/Changes
    and check/upgrade you system accordingly....

  65. If candles are really not pro-union, then why wax? by castlan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of those 10 points, point 10 is the only significant "Question Every Business Should Ask About the GNU General Public License (GPL)".

    10. Do you have any existing obligations that might preclude your use of GPL software?

    The answer is NO, there is nothing precluding anybody from using GPL software once they have access to it. The deceptive answer immediatele switches the bait to the use of "GPL code", which implys a significantly different animal. In any case, there is nothing stopping you from using the code however you se fit. The only restriction involved is in who you give the GPL code/software to, and how you go about it. Not "Every Business" is in the business of distributing computer code.

    Every other Question is irrelevant with the context in which this treatise was presented.

    Oh, and I didn't notice any variant of the word "terror" in this thread.

  66. Re: neat by Omniscient+Ferret · · Score: 1

    Well, I use a SUSE version of LILO for cool animations at bootup. I have a few kernels in the startup menu - the version installed by Debian, and various versions of 2.2 & 2.4 (in case the new one, say, doesn't properly load sound, apm, or pcmcia drivers). But I do tend to keep a rescue cd or two around anyway.

  67. Qlogic drivers won't compile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just found out that both RedHat's and Qlogic's version of the QLA 2200 HBA won't compile on 2.4.19. Did they screw up?

    1. Re:Qlogic drivers won't compile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it does compile but modprobing it fails. Something about to few /dev/sg-devices...

  68. EULA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Where is the new EULA that states that you allow Linus to collect information about the hardware and software installed on your system, and to install new versions without your prior consent?

  69. Re:neat by Grandpa+Jive · · Score: 1

    emerge vanilla-sources :p

  70. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever, once compiled a kernel ?

    I dont believe you have. heres why :

    > unbzip2, untar etc...

    umm, you can do this in just one command, depending on your version of tar:

    tar -yxvf blah.tar.bz2
    tar -jxvf blah.tar.bz2
    tar --use-compress-program=`which bunzip2` -xvf blah.tar.bz2

    > make menuconfig
    > make dep clean bzImage modules modules install

    thats not even gonna work _ AT ALL _ and why are you making two commands out of this ? have you even read the README ? it tells you to make mrproper before this...and what the fuck is "make clean" ?

    make bzImage, than make Install then cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/newkern, are you a fucking moron ?

    and why the hell are you make install'ing twice ? JESUS. these modules arent even gonna get installed.

    make mrproper menuconfig dep bzlilo modules modules_install

    is the correct way. I dont know what the hell gave you the idea that your way would even work!

    > lilo
    > lilo -q

    no need for lilo -q _AT ALL_, even with your way.

    with the correct way, make bzlilo, you dont need to even run lilo.

    > I've only had it fail on one machine, and it had a crappy mobo.

    no you havnt, your lieing, you run windows 98 on your p200. im surprised you even know what linux is,

  71. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Since grub can read your filesystems, you'll never be stuck needing to use a rescue disk if there is still a valid kernel somewhere on your HD.

    Really? Try this:

    rm -f /lib/ld-*.so

    Not that I would ever do anything like that... :-/

  72. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, then you still should have been able to boot in single user mode, into a shell (You DO have a statically linked shell installed as /bin/sh, dont you?). You can then use all those wonderful statically linked binaries in /sbin to recover your system.

    /sbin, its where the statically linked binaries live!

  73. It's a good kernel ... by YeeHaW_Jelte · · Score: 2

    But it has some serious personality problems. Luckily, I'm not the only one who noticed:

    (02/07/17 1.642)
    [PATCH] PATCH: personality clashes

    --

    ---
    "The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
  74. Not necessarily so obvious by r6144 · · Score: 1

    Once I wanted to upgrade libc in some queer way: cp -f /lib/libc-2.1.3.so /lib/libc-2.1.1.so and the system froze completely (because I'm in X). The libc got corrupted so I have to use a rescue disk.

  75. Microwave!!! FUNNNY!!! mod up!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mod parent up funny!!!

  76. Trashes the current sources by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2

    If you've got a current linux source dir, either it's called linux, or linux is a symlink to it. Thus the new tar blows away the old one.

    1. Re:Trashes the current sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So then rename or remove it, smart guy.

  77. Re:DAMMIT STOP PRE ANNOUNCING RELEASES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PROOF : kernel hackers are now less profane than with the 2.4.18 release : /usr/src/linux-2.4.19$ grep -ri fuck . | wc -l
    43 /usr/src/linux-2.4.19$ cd ../linux-2.4.18 /usr/src/linux-2.4.18$ grep -ri fuck . | wc -l
    46

  78. LILO and STITCH by yerricde · · Score: 2

    There is absolutely no reason for anyone to subject themselves to LILO any more

    Unless, of course, you want to support an evil corporation that goes by the name of The Walt Disney Company.

    The Truth About Lilo & Stitch

    Since grub can read your filesystems, you'll never be stuck needing to use a rescue disk if there is still a valid kernel somewhere on your HD.

    That is, unless something else <cough>Windows Update</cough> eats your dual-boot machine's master boot record.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:LILO and STITCH by gnugnugnu · · Score: 1

      According to Disney LILO is pronounced "Lee Low". I thought the bootloader was pronounced "Lie Low" but I recently heard some respectable hackers call it "Lee Low"

      Strangley this page about LILO explains how to pronounce Linux but not LILO.
      http://home.att.net/~lilo-boot/lilohome.htm

      And yes - Windows update - meddling bastards.

    2. Re:LILO and STITCH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > That is, unless something else Windows Update eats your dual-boot machine's master boot record.

      If you were using lilo as your dual-boot manager, how would this fate be avoided (vs grub)? MBR code is MBR code, no matter what bootloader you (were!) using.

      (for my info, under what circumstances does WinUpdate do this? GEEEZ, talk about hostile, self-centered coding!)

    3. Re:LILO and STITCH by 13Echo · · Score: 2

      "Li"nux "Lo"ader. :)

      Kinda like LEE-NUCKS. LEE-LOW. :) Not that it really matters, or anything.

  79. When not hacking Scheme... by yerricde · · Score: 1

    A car returns the first element of a list. A cdr returns the remaining elements.

    Or if you have no interest in Scheme or Common Lisp, a car is a transportation device, and a cdr is a backup medium.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  80. Recursion by yerricde · · Score: 1

    Insert standard Insert-Standard-Wisecrack wisecrack...

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  81. 50% of US == 2% of world by yerricde · · Score: 1

    about half the US [has broadband]?

    Half the US is 2% of the world. Even if you assume that 2% of the population both can get cable or DSL to the home and is willing to pay for cable or DSL (the "willing to pay" excludes T1, which the local telco monopolies have kept high in the three figures USD by suppressing bandwidth co-ops), you shouldn't be mean to the 98% who can't get it.

    If you are running 2.4.14 to 2.4.18, don't download the entire Linux kernel. Download the patches from the old tree to the new tree; they're smaller.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:50% of US == 2% of world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...you shouldn't be mean to the 98% who can't get it.

      That's assuming the US is the only place that can get broadband though. It exists elsewhere too, you know.

    2. Re:50% of US == 2% of world by glwtta · · Score: 2
      for one, 100% of the world is not online (not even at 28.8) so they hardly represent the "real world" here. secondly, the overwhelming majority of /. readers are from the US, and while it is all nice and grand to consider the world as a whole, to most people reading this the "world" consists of those 280 million living in the US. Hell, I'm not even from the US myself, just happen to be living here for a while, and I'm sorry if I am mean to most of the world, but believe me, an overwhelming majority of them have much bigger problems than not having fucking DSL.

      incidentally, seeing how I am privileged enough to be able to pay for all the bandwith I want, I'll download precisely what I please. (in this case it will be whatever emerge gets, but nonetheless)

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    3. Re:50% of US == 2% of world by tanksimpson · · Score: 1

      Right on brother! I'm sick and tired of all these whining modem-users. First of all, they lag everybody out on Counter-Strike servers. That, in and of itself, is a good enough reason to line up every 56k loser up against a wall and shoot them. Secondly, I'm getting really pissed about these damn warez pirates putting out gamez and appz in a zillion little 1 MB ".rar" files. WTF! Just gimme the whole damn ISO so I can download it in 20 minutes with my 3.2 mbps phat pipe! There's nothing worse than having to search around Limewire for that last "Adobe_Photoshop_6_full_version.r99" when you've got the other 98 little files. Then, to add insult to injury, you have to screw around with WinRAR to put the little fuckers back together again!!!

  82. Migrating from win2k to linux by yerricde · · Score: 1

    So what do I press to install this in Win2k?

    If you want to install a Linux system on a computer that runs Windows 2000 Professional, you should buy 1. a second hard drive (linux can't reliably write to ntfs 5) and 2. a copy of a distribution. If this is your first time using Linux on a PC workstation, I'd suggest using Mandrake or Lycoris.

    Then come back and ask about upgrading your kernel if you need support for some specific devices attached to your machine.

    You have been helped :-)

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Migrating from win2k to linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn your .sig is stupid. What do the Village People have to do with democracy?

  83. Re:If linux is really not pro-terrorist, why the G by mjh · · Score: 4, Informative
    First you say

    Because the GPL is so frequently misunderstood...

    And then later...

    As noted above, the use of GPL code with code licensed from another party could, under certain circumstances, arguably obligate you to sublicense the other party's code under the GPL.

    Wow! Excellent example of misunderstanding the GPL! There are *NO RESTRICTIONS* on the use of GPL'd code. Don't believe me? Check the GPL:

    Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted, and the output from the Program is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the Program (independent of having been made by running the Program). Whether that is true depends on what the Program does.

    What this means is that the *only* thing the GPL applies to is redistribution of code. If you simply use the code, you're free to do with it whatever you want (except redistribute it). So I'd recommend that you take your own advice and read the GPL before you start spouting off about what it's implications are.

    --
    Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
  84. Finally! by mrfiddlehead · · Score: 1

    The tarball now includes the first directory level as linux-2.4.19 instead of linux! Now I don't have to do,

    cd /usr/src/tmp
    bzcat ../linux-2.4.19.tar.bz2 | tar xf -
    mv linux ../linux-2.4.19

    Two whole commands fewer!

    I'm already kind of missing those days. :'(

    --
    :wq
    1. Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you just use this to extract the files?

      tar jxf linux-2.4.19.tar.bz2

  85. and all those apples by oliverthered · · Score: 2

    I noticed a huge number of apple stories hitting the front page a few weeks ago.
    Somthing's going on at /. central

    --
    thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  86. check out freshmeat by oliverthered · · Score: 2

    the kernel change log on fresh meat is always nice and tidy.
    but you have to go through gatch rc and pre version to get a full picture.

    e.g. 2.4.19-pre9 change log is....

    This release should be the last pre-patch before 2.4.19. It contains USB, emu10k1, and i2o fixes, a devfs fix, several gcc 3.1 compilation error fixes, support for I845G, USB Casio EM500, and Tieman Voyager USB Braille display drivers, and several documentation updates.

    --
    thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    1. Re:check out freshmeat by mythr · · Score: 1

      It also includes several mew opportunities for those ever-so-fun kernel oopses! ;)

  87. But it is easy to DOS a Mac OS 9x,8 web server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just hit "refresh" on your browser.

  88. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, yes, grub is neat, but perhaps you've missed the point that lilo is *very* stable and grub isn't so stable...

  89. Re:Linux 2.4, Service Pack 19 released by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    troll troll

  90. release early and often with small changes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 2.4.19 release took way too long to happen. This is supposed to be the stable branch. I believe that they tried to change too many things at one time and that some of the changes were large which caused a lot of problems.

  91. Logic ... by bockman · · Score: 1

    You don't try to sell a product to the people that already bought it. You go and stamp your ad on the window of your competitor's shop.

    --
    Ciao

    ----

    FB

  92. Still wating for 2.0.40 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't need no stinkin 2.4 kernel! I want my 2.0!

  93. Re:neat by uhoreg · · Score: 1

    You don't have to worry about forgetting to make/install the modules, and running LILO. It does that all for you.

    --

    To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three persons, two of them absent.

  94. Reading and Understanding the GPL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Your expectations for the Micro$oft troll are too high.

    This FUD-spouting dumb fuck can't even spell MCSE.

  95. You don't have to license it at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    You can say "It's mine, and I'm not going to distribute it or sell it."

    The GPL does not force you to redistribute your product. It just says if you do, anything that is built on GPL'd code must also be GPL'd.

  96. Hey Micro$oft dumb-fuck! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    (yeah, I know the title is redundant, but you gotta hit these idiots over the head with a 2x4 to make them realize how dumb they really are...)

    If the GPL is so damn bad, why did that noted terrorist-supporting NSA pick GPL'd Linux when they wanted a secure operating system?

  97. "Busy" my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    While I'm busy doing my job with Windows, Slashdot is posting minor updates to the Linux kernel. I think it's silly.

    You're not only reading a "silly" posting, you're posting to it yourself!!! If that's "busy" I want your job.

    Who's worse? The silly poster or the supposedly busy person reading all about what the silly poster wrote?

    1. Re:"Busy" my ass by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "If that's "busy" I want your job."

      I posted on a Saturday, numbnuts.

  98. MAC server!?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WFT is that? They burger-flipper who gives you your Big Mac?

  99. Re:neat by kisielk · · Score: 1

    Unless of course you are using any architecture other than i386.

  100. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Grub? Unstable?

    Over the years, I have had many problems with LILO. Kernels that won't boot due to filesystem changes, the dreaded "LI" or "LI LI LI" bugs... LILO is highly dependent on how both the filesytem and partition table are set up. Even the MSDOS bootloader is more reliable.

    But I have not once had a problem with Grub. I've been using it for six months now.

  101. Still 2% by yerricde · · Score: 1

    [Broadband] exists elsewhere too, you know.

    I assumed that the number of USA residents who can get residential broadband but don't was about the same as the number of people outside the USA who get broadband.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  102. Finally... by gweihir · · Score: 2

    ...in its own subdirectory!

    I was geting tired of renaming ./linux directly after unpacking. Perhaps the most user-friendly change in the kernel in a long time.

    I already like it! ;-)===)

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted and ignored otherwise.
  103. Problems with USB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't make my USB mouse work with 2.4.19.

    Same compilation options I had with 2.4.18.

    Initialization seems ok, but nothing happens when moving it under GPM or XFree.

    Back to 2.4.18!

    1. Re:Problems with USB? by Wally_bear · · Score: 1

      Did you actually read when you did make oldconfig? Go into the USB options and look in the HID section, there is an additional option you must now turn on for ALL keyboard and mice HID.

      I checked it, but it would have been pretty easy to overlook.

      --
      Remember, don't feed the trolls.
  104. But I just finished compiling 2.4.18 by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    I have a slow machine!

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  105. Great News Linux will rule in OS !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux is the best OS I have seen so far in both server and desktop. I think this is just the beginning for Linux the good days are just a head of us.

  106. Re: On Gentoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So are Gentoo users generally as retarded as you are?

  107. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > You don't have to worry about forgetting to make/install the modules, and running LILO. It does that all for you.

    What if you're using Grub and don't have lilo installed? Does it still try to do lilo anyway?..

  108. Re:neat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Oh, yes, grub is neat, but perhaps you've missed the point that lilo is *very* stable and grub isn't so stable...

    Examples, please, of recent (last 6 months) grub instabilities. I haven't read about any.

  109. Re: On Gentoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    -pre5, or -rc5? -rc5's the one that was just formally released.

  110. Because sometimes mirros don't have the file ! by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2



    I can understand the "if possible" clause.

    Mirros sometimes don't have the file.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  111. How many changes are there ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2



    I know that 2.4.19 took more than 5 months to complete.

    I also know that Marcelo intended 2.4.19 to be a fix-bug-only release.

    So, exactly how many changes are there, as compared to 2.4.18 ?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  112. How do I pay? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you accept a major credit card?

  113. (OT) Explanation of my signature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn your .sig is stupid. What do the Village People have to do with democracy?

    The Village People never sang a song about the "DMCA". They sang about "YMCA". At least a half dozen parodies of that song were about the DMCA.

    The point of the signature ("They call this a DeMoCrAcy?") is this: In a truly representative democracy, would Americans have let their leaders enact the Digital Millennium Copyright Act?

    -- Damian Yerrick (yerricde) (posted AC because it's OT but it needs to be said)
  114. An INSTALL kernel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't be clueless, there was never an intent to use an install kernel
    beyond intiail installation. One should always compile a custom kernel
    as the first act on a new installation, other than adduser of course.

    'apt-get install kernel-package' and read the README.gz file there,
    as well as Rationale.gz.

  115. I did.... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 2

    the full 23MB of it.

    At 56kb...

    And I need improved wireless support in 2.4.19.

    My ISP will be very pleased.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  116. Re:neat by uhoreg · · Score: 1

    > What if you're using Grub and don't have lilo installed? Does it still try to do lilo anyway?..

    You can set it up to run update-grub instead.

    --

    To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three persons, two of them absent.

  117. There IS a reason to use lilo by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    the reason is:

    AMD + Nvidia = crash

    unless you pass mem=nopentium to the kernel. and I couldn't figure out how to pass mem=nopentium with GRUB.

    GRUB is _SO_ stupid it refuses to run if the parameter after an '=' sign is anything but a number.

    --
    What ? Me, worry ?