Slashdot Mirror

Have you ever used a Mac? Do you know somebody who has? Macs have a tendency to "just work" much, much more than Windows or most Linux distributions. GNOME 3's their own version of that. See the GNOME Shell design page and the latest mockups for more information.

Another reason they're pushing GNOME 3 back is that Shell's design isn't quite usable yet. I would know because I frequently use daily builds of GNOME Shell for testing purposes. I mean, look at it. It's so... blah and thrown-together. The design team is working on the design, and the final design will look much different. If you clone the gnome-shell-design git repository, you'll get the most current mockups. Here's a link to those of you unable to use git including the latest mockups as of today. These mockups look amazing and make the shell much easier on the eyes as well as usable. Ever since they announced this new design, I've been looking forward to it much more than I already have.

Another reason they're pushing GNOME 3 back is that Shell's design isn't quite usable yet. I would know because I frequently use daily builds of GNOME Shell for testing purposes. I mean, look at it. It's so... blah and thrown-together. The design team is working on the design, and the final design will look much different. If you clone the gnome-shell-design git repository, you'll get the most current mockups. Here's a link to those of you unable to use git including the latest mockups as of today. These mockups look amazing and make the shell much easier on the eyes as well as usable. Ever since they announced this new design, I've been looking forward to it much more than I already have.

... or Epiphany.

I'll take you off-topic quote and raise you a relevant one from one of the ffmpeg developers who ported webm: http://blogs.gnome.org/rbultje/2010/06/27/googles-vp8-video-codec/.

The quote really isn't off-topic, it's quite relevant. My little rant was the off-topic bit.

And your quote doesn't help your argument... The only thing listed that is shared with H.264 is "intra prediction". The other bits of ffmpeg that are shared with VP8 are from PREVIOUS VPx codecs. Yes, I certainly won't deny that VP8 is VERY similar to VP7/6/5/4/3 in many ways.

I think that they're more similar than you choose to believe...

Meanwhile, I think you're the one who is mistaken. And since I KNOW that I know quite a lot about VPx, I'm going to take my opinion supported by facts, over yours which is not.

Funny - the x264 developer that criticized VP8 (Jason Garrett-Glaser) also helped implementing VP8 it in ffmpeg...

From what I read - that guy know an awful lot about video compression and his only interest seems to be technical - not political.

I think that they're more similar than you choose to believe...

I'll take you off-topic quote and raise you a relevant one from one of the ffmpeg developers who ported webm: http://blogs.gnome.org/rbultje/2010/06/27/googles-vp8-video-codec/.

I totally hear you and feel your pain. I'm a .NET dev, and I am a near pariah for even suggesting that it's a decent solution. I nearly got my head taken off for suggesting to other Linux-based devs that perhaps we can do some tools in Mono.

And I get to sit around and watch them spend countless hours trying to write a stable sockets server, or write string.Split, or figuring out how to encode in UTF-8.

Show them Vala. It's completely FOSS, its own design (unlike Mono), and generally Unix-centric, but it's got a lot of good things from C#, and will specifically let you avoid a lot of boilerplate code typically associated with C, or the inherent complexity of C++.

That said, if you're not afraid of C++, then every task you had listed is easy if you use a decent framework, such as Qt.

Virtually any Bugzilla install has "love" bugs, e.g. Gnome Love, or bugs that are tagged in a similar way for new devs to dive in.

I appreciate they probably had some QA to do in order to release this puppy and it took a while, but I loaded Evince, un-installed flash and called it a day. If you can't see it on youtube using their HTML 5 beta then that's a real good time to boot up Linux even if it's just in Xen or Oracle/Sun Virtualbox running on Windows. It works just fine for web browsing and less zero day exploits.

Yes, I do.

Microsoft has a lot invested in a lot of things other than .NET, so I think you're making a really large leap here to assume that they're talking about .NET here. Every major software company out there has invested into different things, and they'll protect their IP up to the point where it no longer benefits them to restrict it.

It's in Microsoft's best interests to allow people to use .NET and C# everywhere, period. They've already stated that they're applying the Community Promise to their patents so that they won't sue people over them.

Mono, the framework, is fantastic and it's really sad that RMS and the BoycottNovell tards are spreading so much FUD over it. And that some of you here on Slashdot are perpetuating that.

Last year at the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit, Cody Russell asked Richard Stallman if there was anything that Microsoft could do to ease his fears of patent threats, and he said that there was. Microsoft could come out and publicly state that .NET was open to use and promise not to sue people over it. Days later they did exactly that and Richard did not change his opinion.

As much as I tend to detest Microsoft, I would love to see C#, or a language like it, become more widespread.

Have a look at Vala.

I think it's that every release breaks compatibility and every release follows Firefox's development schedule. Epiphany originally used Gecko. See their reasons for switching: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/epiphany-list/2008-April/msg00000.html

Dan Williams, the guy behind Network Manager, does a lot of work to get cellular modems working in Linux. There seems to be lots working and steady process on others.
His blog http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/ is informative and frankly pretty hilarious in a geeky way.

Props to Dan for doing a great job.

Being able to quickly link arbitrary tasks/windows with hotkeys would be more useful to me, as such I proposed this:
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121349
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignersPlayground/KeyboardShortcuts

Alt-tab allows quick switching between two active tasks, but is not as quick for more than two. In the end I gave up waiting, and actually wrote something to do that in Windows (my current workplace is a mainly Windows environment): http://sourceforge.net/projects/linkkey/

It's handy enough for me whenever I need to work with more than two windows. It doesn't work with all app windows ( e.g. those using the ITaskList_Deleted property ). But I think I'm the only user anyway. I guess everyone else is happy enough with "alt-tab" and clicking.

Lots of people get impressed with stuff like 10/GUI ( http://10gui.com/ ) but it would be slower if you actually need to use it for stuff, after all I don't see how it can even switch tasks faster than "alt tab". It's only good for Hollywood ;).

Thought-based interfaces are already appearing, so what would be a better UI than all that flashy animated 3D crap would be the ability to link "thought macros" to arbitrary actions or objects/items.

Then I would only have to think "command" (this would be a unique thought macro - not thinking of the word command), "recall", [thought macro of object follows] (object retrieved), "send to" [thought macro of Bob here], "confirm", "uncommand" (to get out of command mode).

It looks like they are aware of various scaling issues and a better scaler might be along in 2.8, maybe I will try again then, but this is a fundamental operation, so I am deleting again. Much testing shows me scaling is unpredictable and inconsistent with other image processing programs. Often it looks like it was done nearest neighbor, or had USM applied after, not what a good scaling algorithm should do.

There is already some bug reports (mine is closer to the one that was marked duplicate in last comment, downsize jaggies).
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=553390

Just install Xpdf/evince and be happy. You don't need embedded crap in your documents.

And if cross-platform is what you're worried about, install evince on Windows. http://download.gnome.org/binaries/win32/evince/2.30/evince-2.30.0.msi

Maybe it wouldn't scale to your needs, but I find Tomboy Notes pretty handy. I use it keeps notes of whatever, including follow-ups with contacts (not as an address book). It does full text indexing, making it easy to find the note(s) I'm looking for.

Really, it's in all their official screenshots

http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.30/

Just a note for Linux users: since Cairo, we have more-or-less the same thing. And yet we are still not resolution independent either.

(A note on that note: there exists a branch of gtk+ that is resolution independent, the discussion, but it's not merged.)

Wine and Linux for the client machines should work well for your needs. Ive seen that most games work quite well under Linux+Wine. If Wine isnt enough, possibly CrossOver Games would be better.

Windows prior to Vista doesnt really offer capabilities that you are requesting, as far as I know. And Windows is still expensive...

But on the Linux side, there are a few tools that can do that.

For GNOME, there is GNOME Nanny. Though it seems restricted to time session management and web activities.

A more universal set of tools is available too:

• TimeKpr- Controls login and session times using PAM
• WebContentControl- Despite its name, it does more than control website access. It also includes scripts for controlling application access.
• A new *in-development* GUI called GChildCare is being made to succeed WebContentControl.

Im not sure if there are other tools out there that work. I think Mandriva Linux actually provides integrated support for parental controls similar to GNOME Nanny and TimeKpr. The scripts from WebContentControl would let you block which applications they can run, though that isnt that big of a problem on Linux if they dont have a compiler or root access.

KDE itself has a configurable Kiosk mode, which can help control KDE itself.

Nice theory, but in practice it doesn't work. You still get bothered again next time.

You sound like an advanced hacker type. Google search for "Linux USB hotplug scripts" and read up. You can control what happens when you plug a device in, and you can choke off the behavior you don't like before GNOME is ever notified that something was plugged in. (I haven't bothered to research this in detail because, as I said, I'm okay with the default behavior.)

What does bonobo even *do*, besides complicate the dependency tree?

Bonobo was a way for GNOME applications to expose functionality and data to each other. It is very similar to Microsoft's OLE, or KDE's KParts. The replacement for Bonobo is that the whole world is using DBUS now. (DBUS isn't just for the kernel to publish notifications to user space; user space processes can also use it to talk to each other.)

http://library.gnome.org/devel/platform-overview/stable/bonobo-corba.html.en
http://library.gnome.org/devel/platform-overview/stable/dbus.html.en

steveha

Nice theory, but in practice it doesn't work. You still get bothered again next time.

You sound like an advanced hacker type. Google search for "Linux USB hotplug scripts" and read up. You can control what happens when you plug a device in, and you can choke off the behavior you don't like before GNOME is ever notified that something was plugged in. (I haven't bothered to research this in detail because, as I said, I'm okay with the default behavior.)

What does bonobo even *do*, besides complicate the dependency tree?

Bonobo was a way for GNOME applications to expose functionality and data to each other. It is very similar to Microsoft's OLE, or KDE's KParts. The replacement for Bonobo is that the whole world is using DBUS now. (DBUS isn't just for the kernel to publish notifications to user space; user space processes can also use it to talk to each other.)

http://library.gnome.org/devel/platform-overview/stable/bonobo-corba.html.en
http://library.gnome.org/devel/platform-overview/stable/dbus.html.en

steveha

KIOSlaves are awesome, and while there are GNOME counterparts they aren't as used.

One neat thing about GVFS, the GNOME abstraction, is that part of it wraps FUSE filesystem modules. Any application, not just GNOME applications, can use filesystems mounted with GNOME's 'connect to server' feature, for instance. I think it's more desirable to write a FUSE module than a KDE-specific KIOSlave.

GNOME sometimes comes across as a hodgepodge of bindings and semi-coherent libraries, but there has been a great deal of work to consolidate and even eliminate core libraries, tighten up coding standards, get rid of deprecated symbols in GTK+ and GLib... At least they're trying to get things right, right up and down the stack.

GNOME 3 will be a big shift. I can't say I'm crazy about the new shell, and the Task Pooper scares the shit out of me (ha ha).

They'd have to screw it up really badly to make me go back to KDE. Even then, I'd go to 3.x.

KIOSlaves are awesome, and while there are GNOME counterparts they aren't as used.

One neat thing about GVFS, the GNOME abstraction, is that part of it wraps FUSE filesystem modules. Any application, not just GNOME applications, can use filesystems mounted with GNOME's 'connect to server' feature, for instance. I think it's more desirable to write a FUSE module than a KDE-specific KIOSlave.

GNOME sometimes comes across as a hodgepodge of bindings and semi-coherent libraries, but there has been a great deal of work to consolidate and even eliminate core libraries, tighten up coding standards, get rid of deprecated symbols in GTK+ and GLib... At least they're trying to get things right, right up and down the stack.

GNOME 3 will be a big shift. I can't say I'm crazy about the new shell, and the Task Pooper scares the shit out of me (ha ha).

They'd have to screw it up really badly to make me go back to KDE. Even then, I'd go to 3.x.

KIOSlaves are awesome, and while there are GNOME counterparts they aren't as used.

One neat thing about GVFS, the GNOME abstraction, is that part of it wraps FUSE filesystem modules. Any application, not just GNOME applications, can use filesystems mounted with GNOME's 'connect to server' feature, for instance. I think it's more desirable to write a FUSE module than a KDE-specific KIOSlave.

GNOME sometimes comes across as a hodgepodge of bindings and semi-coherent libraries, but there has been a great deal of work to consolidate and even eliminate core libraries, tighten up coding standards, get rid of deprecated symbols in GTK+ and GLib... At least they're trying to get things right, right up and down the stack.

GNOME 3 will be a big shift. I can't say I'm crazy about the new shell, and the Task Pooper scares the shit out of me (ha ha).

They'd have to screw it up really badly to make me go back to KDE. Even then, I'd go to 3.x.

KIOSlaves are awesome, and while there are GNOME counterparts they aren't as used.

One neat thing about GVFS, the GNOME abstraction, is that part of it wraps FUSE filesystem modules. Any application, not just GNOME applications, can use filesystems mounted with GNOME's 'connect to server' feature, for instance. I think it's more desirable to write a FUSE module than a KDE-specific KIOSlave.

GNOME sometimes comes across as a hodgepodge of bindings and semi-coherent libraries, but there has been a great deal of work to consolidate and even eliminate core libraries, tighten up coding standards, get rid of deprecated symbols in GTK+ and GLib... At least they're trying to get things right, right up and down the stack.

GNOME 3 will be a big shift. I can't say I'm crazy about the new shell, and the Task Pooper scares the shit out of me (ha ha).

They'd have to screw it up really badly to make me go back to KDE. Even then, I'd go to 3.x.

KIOSlaves are awesome, and while there are GNOME counterparts they aren't as used.

One neat thing about GVFS, the GNOME abstraction, is that part of it wraps FUSE filesystem modules. Any application, not just GNOME applications, can use filesystems mounted with GNOME's 'connect to server' feature, for instance. I think it's more desirable to write a FUSE module than a KDE-specific KIOSlave.

GNOME sometimes comes across as a hodgepodge of bindings and semi-coherent libraries, but there has been a great deal of work to consolidate and even eliminate core libraries, tighten up coding standards, get rid of deprecated symbols in GTK+ and GLib... At least they're trying to get things right, right up and down the stack.

GNOME 3 will be a big shift. I can't say I'm crazy about the new shell, and the Task Pooper scares the shit out of me (ha ha).

They'd have to screw it up really badly to make me go back to KDE. Even then, I'd go to 3.x.

Conduit is a very promising sync framework. I've used it a year ago, sync over ssh failed, but the project is really nice, allowing to create complex sync rules with an easy to use GUI.

http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/binaries/win32/evince/2.30/evince-2.30.0.msi

Evince does not open cmd.exe. Evince runs on Windows.

Evince does not open cmd.exe. Evince runs on Windows.

The GIMP is brought up because it's the flagship application of the Linux/free software/open source crowd.

GTK+ is (basically) the GIMP Toolkit. GNOME is built on GTK+ and was at one time the only totally free desktop environment because KDE was built on Qt, which wasn't free-libre.

In fact, what would be really weird is if there were a Photoshop thread in which the GIMP wasn't mentioned.

An alternative question would be: why is Photoshop compulsively mentioned whenever there's a new GIMP release?

...on how to get your rendering context setup in Linux. Here are a few:

http://www.wxwidgets.org/docs/tutorials/opengl.htm
http://projects.gnome.org/gtkglext/

Beyond these, NeHe still applies. The exception are operating system specific APIs like playing sound, but those have nothing to do with OpenGL. After NeHe, you may want to consider using shaders, which are covered in the Orange Book:

http://www.3dshaders.com/home/

I have a feeling that you guess wrong, i can't imagine GNOME would pick up anything from this mess, they have clearlooks, tango and other visual styles, all of which are tasteful and professional, and they're working on the gnome shell, which takes care of any UI ripoff accusations http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Screenshots

Ubuntu's new clothes, by comparison look as though they've been put together in five minutes in a panic. If this theme doesn't evolve rapidly into something slick, polished and original then they need to drop the re-theme until they've got time to put the work in and just use newwave, from a couple of ubuntus ago, as their default.

Really any of the most popular distros on distrowatch.org should work as long as they come with a GUI. KDE by default is oriented in a way similar to windows, and other DE's like Xfce or Gnome can be configured that way with very minimal effort. Any of the *buntu's, mandriva, opensuse, fedora, linux mint, debian, centos, and simply mepis should be suitable for your purpose. I would recommend that you start them off with something that you are familiar with in case there are issues. (similar package manager/desktop environment/configuration files among other things).

If you are looking for themes they are all over the place.

http://art.gnome.org/themes
http://gnome-look.org/
http://kde-look.org/


I introduced my mom to Ubuntu 2 years ago and she has been using it since without any problems. I do upgrades for her (she doesn't seem to notice otherwise) and I helped her get Google Earth installed. And with SSH access I can help her if something goes wrong from miles away. My favorite part of setting it up was telling her it was all free. She couldn't believe me :)

My understanding was that MS Office's implementation of ODF (at least in Excel specifically) had some serious issues.

The "issue" in this case is that spreadsheet formulas (and some other things) are underspecified in the text of the standard (see here and here and here), and the (proprietary) MSOffice implementation is different from the (proprietary) OO.org implementation. Specifically, MSOffice uses formulas as specified in ISO 29500:2008 (that is, ISO-amended OOXML).

This wasn't the case just between MSOffice and OO.org, by the way, other implementations had similar interop problems. One of the links above describes such a problem between OO.org and KOffice

OO.org had since moved to implement a draft of ODF 1.2, which does cover spreadsheet formulas. Other FLOSS word processors have followed suit. However, MSOffice remains an ODF 1.1 implementation, with no stated goal of having OO.org compatibility.

That said, MSOffice ODF formulas are still open in a sense that there is an open specification for them.

> I had to type text paths to set up folder shortcuts on the desktops

with the mouse, it works the same as on Windows: click the folder + CTRL+SHIFT drag it on the desktop. Rename it if you need later on.

Or right click, Make link, move/rename it.

Contextual menu is there to help, in most case.

> Setting up a place for common desktop items, equivalent to Windows "all users", was a bear.

There doesn't seem to be a GUI for it.

http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/menustructure-2.html.en

I personally don't have the need for it. On my setups the programs I install all have their .desktop with them. I.e. the package of the program comes with the menu.

What are you trying to achieve exactly ? which programs are missing in your menus ?

Maybe you're trying to do something that comes from your Windows experience, and thus should be doing in a different way on a Linux system ?

The real WTF is that you are trying to view a PDF in your browser in the first place. Try opening it with a real pdf viewer instead.

give anjuta[1] a try, last i peeked it could embed and use both vim and emacs as editing components

[1] http://projects.gnome.org/anjuta/index.shtml

Well, there was a lot said about the benefits of spatial around the time it was introduced. I sort of assumed that readers here would either remember the discussions or else would be capable of using google. E.g. this has an overview and links, including to this.

Basically file windows remember their form: where they were opened, what size and other properties. I found that I would become familiar with what windows should be where as I opened them, and I found this really helped finding them back. It was just a very nice organisational touch, assisting my brain in associating windows on the screen with what I should expect to find in them.

As for many windows:

- just hold shift as you click a folder

OR

- use the "close parent folders" option in the file menu

As for navigation: Did you miss the button in the bottom left that drops down to show the hierarchy of folders, and lets you open any them by selecting them?

I've noticed Nautilus in Ubuntu seems to be screwed up wrt spatial though, least it's quite different to Fedora. Did they apply weird patches?

It does appear that Nautilus' people are taking many many lessons from (let's not say ripping off) KDE's Dolphin. I mean, if you compare Nautilus' demo screenshot and you use KDE's Dolphin (please ignore the command line at the bottom and info dock widget at the right) on a daily basis you will be hard pressed to find any differences.

And they rip of XTree, Thunar, Apple Finder (OS X), Windows Explorer (between 95 and XP) and hundreds of other file navigators too. Just look at the screenshots (using the rigth set of preferences)!

Canonical would still need to build a user interface on top of the server component, so while it is a good idea there would still be quite a bit of work for Canonical to do as Google has not and most likely will not open source their own Wave implementation. Then again, let's not forgot that Google Wave in the current state is completely unusable for both communication (chat, discussion etc.) and any form of collaboration (specifically collaboration on documents). EtherPad on the other hand actually nails it regarding document collaboration.

So integrating EtherPad support into Ubuntu One would be feasible in the short term, at least to allow users to work together on Notes. It would be double as awesome if there was an effort to integrate support for libinfinity (from Gobby) in Tomboy (which already synchronizes with Ubuntu One). Then for collaboration over the web you'd use Ubuntu One's EtherPad functionality and in your desktop you can easily collaborate from within Tomboy.

> The point of a spacial file browser is to use your spacial memory

I thought spacial file browsers were for "spacial people" e.g. retards ;).

Seriously though, I agree. Lots of these "fancy UIs" that these jokers come up with only work fine for users who just need to manage a handful of objects (windows, tasks, files, folders) at a time.

I find this silly since there is evidence that people are already able to manage a handful of objects at a time ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus_or_Minus_Two ), but can't manage far more.

We don't really need help when there are a few objects and need help when there are lots. But that's when all those stupid GUIs start getting in the way.

For example: thumbnailed windows don't really help when you have > 10 of them (especially if they are similar looking documents - using the same standardized template), same goes for those graphical selectors where they show the windows from a 3d or fancy perspective. Useless if you have 20+ windows, cool looking when you have three or four windows, but why'd you need them when you only have a few windows?

When you have a few objects to track you should be able to remember which ones are which. When you have way more, you need some help. That's where computers and software should help. But they don't!

The exceptions are some game UIs. Some of which are proof that you can build UIs that work for "noobs" and still help skilled users.

Games are also proof that people, when sufficiently motivated to, can actually do far more than what these Desktop GUI makers assume. Very many actions per second. Keeping track of stuff. Learning of difficult combos. So where's the Desktop GUI that actually helps you to sustain a high "actions per second" average?

I've personally suggested this:

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignersPlayground/KeyboardShortcuts

And something like it in 2006:
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121349

I think this sort of thing will help skilled users more, while not getting in the way of "naive" users (you can still leave the flashy stuff for them).

Car analogy: current OS GUI designers seem to be making cars that look really cool (and are theme-able) but have top speed of 30kph (play a beautiful animation while doing so), have a range of 3km, and have only space for one person at a time.

Not really helpful when we need to do some serious traveling.

Well, the rationale for changing from spatial to browser mode in Nautilus is because much of the functionality is now being implemented in Gnome-Shell.

From the following post by Alexander Larsson:

The current ideas behind the design of nautilus is that its the main way to access files. By this I mean everyday stuff like finding and opening your files, rather than "file management" (reorganizing files, copying files, etc). This together with the desktop having links to important places (as well as being a repository for currently worked on files) makes this a sort of "desktop shell" in the sense that its how apps are launched to a large degree. This is also why spatial mode is the default for the desktop icons (and why browser mode is availibile in the menus as "File Browser" for those times you want to
do intense file management).

However, in the gnome-shell design a lot of the things nautilus is currently used for (locating and opening files) is integrated into the
shell and mixed together with the ui for locating and starting applications. This makes a lot of sense to me as launching applications and opening files with an application are closely related actions, and a merged UI could do a lot better than the current sort of double UI with the panel launching apps and the desktop launching files. The shell also wants to de-emphatize the desktop as a place for storing files in use and launching links, for good reasons (read the design paper[1] for details).

This leads to two initial conclusions from my side. First of all we should disable the drawing of the desktop by default. Second we should default to browser mode. This might seem a bit suprising (sic) since I've generally been on the spatial side. But, this has mainly been because I've seen nautilus as much more used as a kind of file activation shell rather than a hardcore file manager, and when that changes the rationale for spatial mode change too.

Will we get another Slashdot newsflash when they fix the copy/cut situation?
Please see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47948 for this age old 'unimportant' bug.
Even the basics take ages for them.

It does appear that Nautilus' people are taking many many lessons from (let's not say ripping off) KDE's Dolphin. I mean, if you compare Nautilus' demo screenshot and you use KDE's Dolphin (please ignore the command line at the bottom and info dock widget at the right) on a daily basis you will be hard pressed to find any differences.

http://live.gnome.org/Gnote

But I also know that I am a fan of Free Software. I'd be too happy Gnome could shed non-free software (like Tomboy notes - based on Mono)

Mono is free software. RMS himself says so, in the very mailing list thread that sparked this slashdot discussion. When the list starts working again, you can read RMS saying so here.

How can all of this be more important than getting the most basic features of their GUI right?
See http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47948 for a bug that has been open for wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too long.