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Damien Sandras, the lead for the GnomeMeeting project, has snapshots rolled of the forthcoming 0.12 release of GnomeMeeting.

Ripped from Mailing List
There are a lot of new features :
* ILS rewrite (you can browse several ILS servers at the same time)
* full ILS support
* videograbber support (you can now make changes on the fly)
* gatekeeper support
* docklet support (Miguel Rodriguez)
* image zoom support
* jitter buffer delay support and other advanced codecs settings
* devices auto-detection
* bandwidth control support
* preferences reorganisation

The drivers are the problem. There will hopefully be a user added section for Camera ratings on the site soon.

On the V4L mailing list there have been a lot of discussions about which cameras are best and how to take advantage of a bttv based card to use a camera for video input. The mail list is here. And you have to be a list member to see the list archives. You might also check out which cameras are supported at http://www.linux-usb.org and match that up with something on the V4L list and/or GnomeMeeting list and archives .

This isn't a troll, I'm just trying to get a handle on why exactly the HURD exists.

1) Is it because its all GPL?

2) Is it because its a microkernel?

3) Maybe a new, improved microkernel? Not MACH.

4) Security?

5) Performance? Yea right.

6) Ease of use? Isn't that up to KDE and GNOME?

7) Translators, Namespace unification, RPC? Been there, done that.

So, exactly why does HURD exist? What does it bring to the table that hasn't been seen dozens of times before? (Besides allowing non-root users to mount partitions!)

I guess the (small) difference I'm seeing is the difference between "to create an entirely free desktop environment for free systems" and "to support the principle of software freedom". One of these seems practical, the other political.

Currently the only disagreement that I'm aware of between RMS and the GNOME foundation is the mentioning of the (non-free, but free software related) Star Office application suite some time back. This caused RMS to ask for a policy decision to never mention non-free software. (Does this mean that it would be no longer possible to announce that Sun have released GNOME packages for non-free Solaris?) Does this help in any way the goal of creating an entirely free desktop environment for free systems? I sincerely doubt it.

The GNOME Foundation board should focus on facilitating interested parties (individual or corporate) create free software for the GNOME desktop. They should not be making it more onerous for these interested parties by creating policy for the sake of policy.

25. TELSA GWYNNE " I do docs, bugs, and hassling developers. I don't code. I also make last minute decisions. " No affiliation. Full statement at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-announce /2001-November/msg00030.html

I have no corporate affiliations. I am a Jr. undergrad student at MIT, and I'd like to see Gnome succeed, like all of you. If I win, I don't promise to do a better job than most of you could do, but I do promise to do it while eating a truckload of bananas. Really, I want to use the position to impress chicks^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hhelp guide the direction of Gnome toward what I think will make it the ideal computing platform.

And don't forget to read Rhett Creighton's Master Plan.

MR. GATES: Let me start out, really the reason that you see open source there at all is because we came in and said there should be a platform that's identical with millions and millions of machines, and the bios of that should be open to everybody to use, and all the extensibility should be there. And so it was very predictable that once we had gotten the PC going, and going and gotten hundreds of millions of machines out there, that it had always been sort of free software and the universities would flourish and there would be more of that. We certainly accept free software as part of the software ecosystem. In fact, there's a very virtuous cycle where people do free things, some people find that adequate, sometimes companies will take that work and turn it into commercial products, those companies will hire people, pay taxes. And so you see the free software and the commercial software existing together.

==========

I've been working for GNOME since years before there was a GNOME. In 1983, while formulating plans for the GNU operating system, I decided it ought to include a window system. Later, around 1988, we obtained X, but we found out that X only did the lower-level half of the job, so I decided we needed to develop a free software desktop to do the rest of the job. After our desktop initiatives in 1990 and 1994/5 didn't produce a working desktop (*), I became aware of another desktop project based on a non-free library (**), and spoke to the community about the problem posed by that dependency. This inspired Miguel to launch our third desktop project, the one that succeeded: GNOME.

Hmmm...

sPh

5. RHETT CREIGHTON " The future is now, and that future is: Bowling Balls. Do you realize that if GNOME starts making bowling balls, we stand to net profit $11,000?! That's right, eleven big ones. Net profit, mind you. " No affiliation. Full statement at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-announce /2001-November/msg00007.html I wonder how many votes this fellow will get?

The role of someone on the GNOME Board of Directors is to represent the best interests of the GNOME project not the interests of any other third party. Can RMS make this distinction?

Just for sake of clarity :)

< KDE gets awards...
< Gnome gets RMS

Consider that Gnome is an offical part of the gnu project.
If Gnome wants to have Gnu's seal of approval, it has to follow all Gnu coding conventions and as well its philosophy. No more, no less, no bullshit thank you. :)

This post, on the other hand (which was linked from the article), is actually relevant.

Hearsay evidence is given by the following quote: "RMS replied telling us that he disagreed with my argument and saying the we are legitimatizing the use of non-free software by mentioning it. I left it at that, but today RMS remailed us today asking us to confirm that we will not mention non-free software anymore."

The message that sparked this email is unknown, but circumstantial evidence would seem to point to the idea that RMS wants no mention of non-free software in some projects.

Yes. That post was what I was specifically referring to. RMS is whining that non-free (by his definition) software is being mentioned in the context of "free" software.

You know, I've always resisted comparing RMS to a communist, but this sounds like what the Soviet Union would do. "We must expunge all references to evil Capitalism from our literature so the people are not poisoned with impure thoughts. They will only be exposed to the beauty that is the communist ideal."

Sorry for pulling out the "instant flamebait" of the C-word, but I find this unbelievably appalling.

On GNOME's homepage they claim "GNOME is part of the GNU project, and is free software (some times referred to as open source software.)".

If they want to participate in the GNU project then they are giving away their choice to the Free Software Foundation.

As a user, you still have choice in what you do. But as developers they bought into something, and they need to follow through in their goals, or adjust their participation in the Free Software Foundation.

Joseph Elwell.

The GNOME mail archives have a post which shows what RMS is pissed about. There's even a Hall of Shame which lists some non-free packages, most GNOME-based.

Well what about this, from the April Ximian Gnome 1.4 announcement?

You can read the full announcement yourself. In the meantime, we've had to do without or change desktop :(

(Sidenote: the lameness filter rejects ... on a line by itself !!! That's just fantastic)

Yes, you could build and run Evolution under Windows, but currently ONLY under Cygwin + an X11 server (this is still local on the Windows box). A Cygwin setup can be accomplished by a newbie. See links below for running GNOME under Cygwin on a Windows box.

Much of GNOME will not build natively, although the libraries themselves are designed to be portable, and GTK is working just fine as Win32 (see GIMP).

There are two kinds of Windows ports... X11 display based, and true "native" Win32. The former is easy to do; the latter is not yet possible (tho you can help!). It's likely that a "native GNOME for Windows" will be much easier, once GTK 2.0 is released.

Links regarding running GNOME or compiling under a local X11 display:
http://news.gnome.org/976323862/index_html
http://xfree86.cygwin.com/screenshots/
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley/1596/en/c ygwin.html

From the GNOME FAQ, regarding native GNOME for M$ Windows:
http://canvas.gnome.org:65348/gnomefaq/html/x359.h tml

A lot of people want to port GNOME and GTK apps over to Windows. To conquer the enemy they say, you have to enter their territory, then sway them to your culture (OS). ;-)

Yes, you could build and run Evolution under Windows, but currently ONLY under Cygwin + an X11 server (this is still local on the Windows box). A Cygwin setup can be accomplished by a newbie. See links below for running GNOME under Cygwin on a Windows box.

Much of GNOME will not build natively, although the libraries themselves are designed to be portable, and GTK is working just fine as Win32 (see GIMP).

There are two kinds of Windows ports... X11 display based, and true "native" Win32. The former is easy to do; the latter is not yet possible (tho you can help!). It's likely that a "native GNOME for Windows" will be much easier, once GTK 2.0 is released.

Links regarding running GNOME or compiling under a local X11 display:
http://news.gnome.org/976323862/index_html
http://xfree86.cygwin.com/screenshots/
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley/1596/en/c ygwin.html

From the GNOME FAQ, regarding native GNOME for M$ Windows:
http://canvas.gnome.org:65348/gnomefaq/html/x359.h tml

A lot of people want to port GNOME and GTK apps over to Windows. To conquer the enemy they say, you have to enter their territory, then sway them to your culture (OS). ;-)

A non-techie will never figure out the mess that is /etc. Until there are applets and/or wizards for every single file in /etc, Linux will not be ready for prime time.

I, on the other hand, dread the day that there is a wizard for every /etc file.

There are a couple trends I hate about GUI config, and certainly not all config programs are guilty of this, but I have noticed all of these "in the wild" at certain times:

• When the GUI config tool is intended as the primary configurator, and the actual config file is in XML or binary, or documentation on the commands is sparse.
• When the GUI config tool completely overwrites the existing configuration to achieve it's functions instead of reading in the existing file and delicately changing just the lines needed. (linuxconf is guilty of this, especially to the sendmail setup where it practically takes over.)

Although nobody has made one that I've seen, I'd love to see a configurator that has the original text config file in a window pane below or beside the main options panel, and update it as options are changed, so you can see the actual commands and what is being changed. Maybe even color highilight the changed lines. That would rock.

What we need to do is start a project which will create these applets, with a consistant look and feel, which will appear in a control panel when an app is installed.

We don't need to _start_ anything, just join one of the existing projects if you want to help: linxuconf, gnomecc, webmin, etc.

I do not think a lot of the developers are going to take the time to answer a RFP in the depth that most software vendors or VARS would.

Open source people are not going to be paid for a "sale" were as the normal software vendors are competing for some money if they can make a sale.

He sends them a large bill - $15,000 - for his services, and someone in the Accounts Payable department says the bill is too expensive for what he did, and needs to be itemized. So he itemized his charges:

• Making chalk mark, $1.
• Knowing where to put mark, $14,999.

One can sell one's expertise in selecting software as much as one can sell one's expertise in creating it. Or one can sell other things. We sometimes miss this in our industry because it is extremely rare for someone other than the manufacturer of a software product to provide maintenance and support of it. But because a product is open source, a purchaser can find anyone who is capable of doing so to provide maintenance.

In about 50 miles I need to change the oil again in my 1998 Dodge Intrepid because it's been another 3,000 miles. I can do the work myself and perhaps save money, I can pay a third-party perhaps $12 to do it, or I can pay a little more, take it to a dealer of the car to do it. It's a commodity operation and I can get anyone I feel qualified to perform it.

With non-open-source you only have the last option when you need something done (if they even will do it; consider calling up Microsoft and asking for a customized change to Outlook. Better be prepared to either be a huge customer, pay a huge fee, or suck air). With open-source you can get your hands as dirty as you want or you can pay someone else if you don't feel competent (or your organization doesn't have the direct ability) to make the changes. You have choices.

An RFP has some type of reward (sale) possible to the winner for them to spend time on responding to it.

A RFP is a request for proposal - A proposal for what? A proposal is a first step toward a contract. A contract with who? Who will get paid? I do not think a RFP process will get you very far.

For an open source product the cost of the software will be zero.

What is the cost of water these days? I can get it for free from a water fountain, perhaps pay almost nothing for a quart of water out of the tap, perhaps pay $20 for a filter every couple of months if I don't like the taste of tap water, or perhaps pay anywhere from 50c to $3 for a bottle of it in a store. That does not ignore the fact that the original price of the water was probably in the neighborhood of 1/10 of 1c per gallon from a public utility or a municipal water district. For all intents and purposes the original price of the water might as well be considered 'free' yet that doesn't stop companies from making money 'selling' water that cost them next to nothing to obtain.

Perhaps the customer pays for having the supplier provide and deliver 20,000 CDs of the software to sites so everyone has a copy instead of clogging network usage downloading it from servers. Or pays for a customized installer where the original product didn't have one or it's too complicated. Or pays for special services to go with it, like paying not only for the software but having someone write documentation. Or train people in how to use it. Or train their technical staff in how to support it. Or doing the support themselves. Or that the customer pays the supplier for finding the precise package that best fits their needs because the supplier knows what products are better for their particular circumstances.

Support and maintenance I guess would be in-house.

Let's say the Sixth National Bank wants to stop paying for Microsoft Exchange as their mail server and client licenses for Microsoft Outlook. I offer to provide them with an equivalent functionality using a Linux box running QMail (let's say that they want a highly reliable e-mail system so that eliminates use of Sendmail) and include for the client end some Windows port of an open-source client or group of clients that originally ran on KDE or GNOME, for less money than it would cost to have one person at the bank to maintain it because the maintenance I can offer on an as-needed basis to several companies.

The bank has people who could do the work inhouse but they are better suited handling the stuff that is the bank's core expertise (handling checking accounts and the billing of outrageous fees on those checking accounts), and the bank can pay me to provide them with updates and added functionality without having to have people doing work that isn't part of their core competency, BUT with the additional advantage that since the product is open source if I decide to quit, they can find someone else to do it or they could do it themselves if they choose to do so.

What's left then is comparison of different capabilities. This becomes a request for comments now (RFC).

A suggestion change here. Maybe send a RFP to consulting firms on helping you with project(s). A selected firm could help in gathering requirements, research products, help in the installation and maintenance ... If you trying to spend money anyways. :)

Paul Robinson <Postmaster@paul.washington.dc.us>

BeOS developers could definitely help out with these two projects:

KDE usability
Gnome usability.

In fact, as I mentioned in another article recently, if you know of anyone that has experience with usability engineering, maybe it's a good idea to introduce them to these projects. Making linux user-friendly is going to take a lot of work, and unfortunately there are just not enough people to do it.

Currently it seems like only programmers are willing to donate their time to the open source software effort

This not true. Saying so takes away from the hard work being done by many volunteers to make Linux more user-friendly.

KDE Usability,
GNOME Usability.

Given that, maybe in a year or two Nautilus will pick up in performance and reach a state of usability.

Usability amounts to more than just performance. It has to do with GUI design, taking the user's conceptual model of the computer into account etc. To see what the GNOME Usability Project's proposals for Nautilus are, please visit Nautilus GNOME 2 must-fix list.

Given that, maybe in a year or two Nautilus will pick up in performance and reach a state of usability.

Usability amounts to more than just performance. It has to do with GUI design, taking the user's conceptual model of the computer into account etc. To see what the GNOME Usability Project's proposals for Nautilus are, please visit Nautilus GNOME 2 must-fix list.

Fred is a DBA, so Windows "major major asset" is DB modeling tools.

Recent Oracle clients run on Java technology. Java technology runs on Linux86; Fred can download a Linux version of the SDK or the smaller JRE.

Sally is a project manager, so Windows "major major asset" is project tools.

She can use MrProject or Toutdoux.

Biff is an accountant, so Windows "major major asset" is spreadsheet software.

Like Gnumeric?

The situation with office apps does not parallel like the situation with Photoshop vs. GIMP. Most office suite users do not need the "high-end features" that Microsoft pushes on users with each new relea$e. Even then, those who clone MS Office don't have to worry about broad color-correction patents that play a significant part in keeping GIMP from matching Photoshop's feature set.

Screenshots can be seen on the GNOME site There also are some more Nautilus-centric screenshots on their sourceforge project page.

A full list of changes can be found here

Try this:
GNOME Basic

If you don't want Linux to look like XP, create your own theme/style/icons and behavior configuration ruleset. If you do want Linux to look like XP, do the same.

I can not believe that the parent post got the moderation (Score 5: Insightful).

I am sure that he has had some problems with Nautilus bloat (which is a commen problem), but Sawfish bloat is really a stupid comment.

I am also sure that he has grown up on CDE, but to claim that the Gnome interface is clumsy and difficult relative to CDE or Windows for a new user, is just rubbish. Also, one should give Sun credit for working hard on making the Gnome interface more user friendly, something all GUI should have even mind all the time.

But the real troll comment is "GNOME is at least five years away from any sort of maturity". Since we just have celebrated KDE's 5 years birthday, that is one of the least : Insightful comments I have seen in this whole slashdot posting. Talk about not paying attention for the last 10 years.

Moderators, wake up!

As I've read some of the mailing lists every day for the past few weeks, there seems to be MAJOR activity by SUN on GNOME. Sander, Billh, Calum, and Stephen (sorry if I missed people!) are very active on the mailing lists. The Accessability Toolkit has been part of their work, but also in drafting some rather encouraging style guides and documentation, along with general hacking on various libraries and applications (including Nautilus, which was pronounced dead after Eazel went boom...). I seriously doubt they plan to drop GNOME, as I seriously doubt Solaris 9 will ship without it, considering the work they are putting into it. The DEVELOPMENT platform should be out by Christmas, with other applications ported soon afterwards.

And, for a better question, why would Sun want to pay TT for a licence for QT? Redhat? Why would any company want to pay for a widget set to develop (closed-source, mind you) for Linux? If a Symantec, IBM, Intuit, or, GASP, even M$ wanted to write Linux software, my guess is they would use an LGPL library (Gnome) over paying for QT licences. (I could be wrong, as I don't pay much attention to KDE, but their FAQ seem to say I'm not...)

Which brings me to the main point I'd like to make, IT'S BEEN ALL ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THE PAST YEAR!!! It takes a lot of behind the scenes work for a program such as Evolution to work, so that's what the Gnomers have been hacking on. The problem is, YOU (the user) won't see it right away!

The technologies these guys have been busting their arses on will make the applications (like Evolution already proves) kick butt.

GConf - Consolidated configuration system with multiple backends. XML or BerkleyDB for user now, hopefully ACAP or LDAP for network users soon. Who know's what's next!

ATK - Accessability Toolkit for screenreaders and such, built-in to the platform. This is important for corporate use with the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) in US, and I'm sure others outside the US.

Bonobo - Corba based REAL components, not just OLE. Look at the power in Evolution. (I'm a big fan, as if you couldn't tell, but not just for myself, but for my wife and grandmother as well. I don't think mutt would cut it for them... :>)

Pango - i18n and l10n, Right-to-Left, and such... Don't know much about this being an en-us, but I'm sure it's important!

Glib/Gtk+ - Very nice improvements, Anti-Aliased text, and so forth.

Nautilus - Darin and others have been optimizing and working out the bugs in this for a while. It has it's problems on the bleeding edge, but it's comming along! I'm not sure about the extent of his involvment, but tigert has been showing up on the list. If he is working on it, we can expect quite a bit in the way of jaw-dropping eye-candy...

Glade/libglade/bonoboui(?) - XML UI descriptions at runtime. RAD UI development at it's best... This is very important.

GStreamer - While not Gnome platform, per se, it has ALOT of infrastructure in place in the A/V dept, and once ported to 2.0, will make for a nice multimedia API/Application Toolkit. (If memory serves correctly, it's been a while since I checked up on this one...)

And a plethora of other platform tidbits. Sure, YOU (user) won't see any radical differences between 1.4 and 2.0, other than AA text and such, but just wait until 2.0.1, 2.2, or 3.0, and so on. It took YEARS for the infrastrucure of Linux to become what it is. Now, it is proven solid. The infrastructure of Gnome is REALLY fleshing out. And need I remind you of the 1.0 - 1.2 hurdle... I imagine 2.0 will come out with eveyone trashing it, much like 1.0, then 2.2 come along with much the same reception 1.2 had... Sure, not good for PR, but... :>

NOT that this takes anything away from KDE. Infact, it's what I recommend to my non-developer friends. To my developer and/or sysadmin friends, I show the horsepower under Gnome's hood. So far I've had nothing but ooos and ahhhs from both camps. Later, I'm sure I'll be showing Gnome all-around.

And finally, CUT THAT "GNOME'S DYING" CRAP OUT! Not only does two projects not hurt, it HELPS! We need all the competition we can get, because that's what causes innovation! We've all seen M$ resting on their laurels, because they've had no competition! WE DON'T WANT THAT! And aside from some notable exceptions, the DEVELOPERS OF BOTH PROJECTS SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THIS!!! Take a look at this happy bday congratz to KDE on Gnome News and PLEASE, BE THANKFUL TO EVERYONE.

For my part, thanks Havoc, Owen, Michael, Seth, Darin, Sather, Ian, Jacob, Alex, Maciej, Calum, Bill, George, Chema, and all I've left out for your hard work. Don't let the ignorance of a few make you at all hesitant in your work. It is greatly appreciated!

Chris

You thought MS had sort of nazi-esque methods? Well, I will now, in this brief essay, reveal to you the hidden truth of Linux, an joint Finnish-German Nazi conspiration for revenge against the victors of WW2. Let's look at the evidence.

During the second World War, Finland was a close allied to the Third Reich, as is clearly illustrated by this photo of a finnish military aircraft. After the defeat of the Axis Powers, a revantionist urge abounds in both countries.

Linux was written by Finnish stuent Linus Thorvalds, a member of the small Swedish-speaking minority of Finland, well known for it's white supremacist tendencies. In this article Torvalds expresses his enthusiasm and admiration for the German-led KDE project. He also makes some unclear statements about the claims of Richard Stallman for calling the operating system GNU/Linux being invalid. Why is this? Obviously, the Nazi -and therefore Anti-Communist- Thorvalds here shows his support for his German allies against the Communist GNU and GNOME [gnome.org] projects.

But what does this hideous Nazi conspiracy want? We cannot, at this point, know. But what we do know, is that Nazies are up to no good. To stop them from achieving whichever horrible goals they hav in mind, I would strongly discourage any use of the Linux kernel or the KDE. Instead, I would recomend the use of a truly democratic operating system.

Thank You.

You thought MS had sort of nazi-esque methods? Well, I will now, in this brief essay, reveal to you the hidden truth of Linux, an joint Finnish-German Nazi conspiration for revenge against the victors of WW2. Let's look at the evidence.

During the second World War, Finland was a close allied to the Third Reich, as is clearly illustrated by this photo of a finnish military aircraft. After the defeat of the Axis Powers, a revantionist urge abounds in both countries.

Linux was written by Finnish stuent Linus Thorvalds, a member of the small Swedish-speaking minority of Finland, well known for it's white supremacist tendencies. In this article Torvalds expresses his enthusiasm and admiration for the German-led KDE project. He also makes some unclear statements about the claims of Richard Stallman for calling the operating system GNU/Linux being invalid. Why is this? Obviously, the Nazi -and therefore Anti-Communist- Thorvalds here shows his support for his German allies against the Communist GNU and GNOME [gnome.org] projects.

But what does this hideous Nazi conspiracy want? We cannot, at this point, know. But what we do know, is that Nazies are up to no good. To stop them from achieving whichever horrible goals they hav in mind, I would strongly discourage any use of the Linux kernel or the KDE. Instead, I would recomend the use of a truly democratic operating system.

Thank You.

You thought MS had sort of nazi-esque methods? Well, I will now, in this brief essay, reveal to you the hidden truth of Linux, an joint Finnish-German Nazi conspiration for revenge against the victors of WW2. Let's look at the evidence.

During the second World War, Finland was a close allied to the Third Reich, as is clearly illustrated by this photo of a finnish military aircraft. After the defeat of the Axis Powers, a revantionist urge abounds in both countries.

Linux was written by Finnish stuent Linus Thorvalds, a member of the small Swedish-speaking minority of Finland, well known for it's white supremacist tendencies. In this article Thorvalds expresses his enthusiasm and admiration for the German-led KDE project. He also makes some unclear statements about the claims of Richard Stallman for calling the operating system GNU/Linux being invalid. Why is this? Obviously, the Nazi -and therefore Anti-Communist- Thorvalds here shows his support for his German allies against the Communist GNU and GNOME projects.

But what does this hideous Nazi conspiracy want? We cannot, at this point, know. But what we do know, is that Nazies are up to no good. To stop them from achieving whichever horrible goals they hav in mind, I would strongly discourage any use of the Linux kernel or the KDE. Instead, I would recomend the use of a truly democratic operating system.

Thank You.

Apparently, the GTK widgets won't blink anymore when a window gets resized. I think double buffering was implemented to achieve this but can someone confirm this?

There is a cool new looking control center and I wouldn't mind seeing what the new tree widget looks like if someone has a shot of that.

the "GNOME" needs to be capital.

According to the changelog on news.gimp.org there were updates in the last 24 hours. The news site is also still up, maybe you can reach somebody there?

Anybody have a link I can try?

You can try this (gnome.org).

I'm not that guy, though, so I don't know if that's what he's talking about -- but it looks it.

Well, now that gtk and gnome are around, X apps are starting to look more "coherent" to me. This is probably the same for the KDE side of things, but I have never used it.

The fact that there is more than one popular GUI toolkit available means there are still going to be strange looking apps out there, but it is definitely getting better than the "everyone designing their own GUI using Xt" days..

This explains it much better than I could. Besides, without knowing what other applications are currently running one cannot make that judgement. Memory can be mapped multiple times and top is commonly WRONG (it's a dumb program, just does what it thinks is right, what else can you expect). I wouldn't really trush a value from it. Look into X, you'll see that id does mmap memory more than once, so top will count it more than once. Added to the fact that memory counted against X is actually another program's display, then you'll see that the actual main system RAM used is very little.

Lemme see:

Full open source projects:

OpenOffice

Netbeans

Tomcat (The source was gifted from Sun)

NFS (gifted to the Linux community)

They also have source that free for research and internal use at:

http://www.sun.com/software/communitysource/index. html

They also have given financial and programming support to:

Gnome

Mozilla

And I'm just scratching the surface! And for the record, Lutris was perfectly able to create a fully open source, J2EE branded server. The catch 22 was that they couldn't open source Sun's code so they would have to write their own. Did they? No.

Geez, you people could at least TRY to understand the issue before shooting off at the mouth.

Disclaimer: This post does not meet established Slashdot doctrine. Go ahead, mod me down. I dare you. Be a censor just like the news media. The truth? You can't handle the truth!

So that is why nobody ever tried to write a Visual Basic look-alike, sweetheart?

GUI tools are wonderful for tasks like creating user interfaces. Most GUI tools don't scale very well, though. When I build user interfaces in Java I code all of the layout manager stuff by hand rather than using the tool in Symantec's expensive environment -- it isn't good enough. Glade http://glade.gnome.org/ is good enough. It's wonderful. Does anyone write libglade XML by hand?

I also like having an editor that respects my breakpoints and adjusts them when I move code around. I learned how to program in assembly language and it seems natural to me to inspect registers/variables and change code while it is running.

Color syntax highlighting, dialogs to set compiler options, integrated icon editing, these features I don't *need* but I don't mind a pretty environment as long as it is designed as a view into the command line tools rather than a replacement.

Microsoft's best product is Excel. Why? Because, unlike NT or Word or whatever, it's the main application used by the people who sign the cheques.

The Free Software Foundation's best product is Gnumeric. Why? Because, unlike GNU/Linux or GNOME or AbiWord or whatever, it's the main application used by the people who sign the cheques.

The KDE Team's best product is KSpread. Why? Because, unlike KDE or KWord or whatever, it's the main application used by the people who sign the cheques.

It's not too late. Have you seen the GNOME usability report from Sun? http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/ut1_report /report_main.html.

what's up with this: "Your comment violated the poster comment compression filter. Comment aborted"

Yes, Evolution is GPL. I really doubt that will ever change, since a lot of Evolution hackers are really committed to free software.

I'm not a big Mandrake fan, but you can't really fault them for that. Sun actually bothered to ask users about Gnome and received some good feedback, if a bit anal. maybe Gnome will get some of that polish soon, but until there is actually a more or less common UI, there are always going to be rough areas.

GNOME Usability Study

Nothing wrong with warez sites. Not that I ever download warez, since I prefer to use FreeBSD, X Windows & Gnome for anything that resembles a workstation. Unless, its for someone who doesn't know anything about using *nix, so I'll usually install a version of windoze. But still, when it comes to mp3s, there is some music I'd like to have, though doesn't deserve my money. On the other hand, music I like and listen to regulary deserves my money, so when I have the money, I make sure the artists get some money by buying the CDs. Even still, most of that money goes to the producers, but at least the artists get some.

Maybe its time for people who like mp3s to start to convince bands for running an Internet feature, where you can download music freely, but if you like it -- send a donation. Then again, most people would rather save their money so it wouldn't exactly work.

and Abiword. OpenOffice is not a part of gnome and nowhere near usable yet.

I think the Abiword developers would disagree with you there. Abiword is part of Gnome Office. Its a testament to abiwords interoperability and cross platform status that you dont think its a gnome app, its a shame more Gnome apps dont try as hard to be cross platform.

Hi /.-ers,

My primary browser is Galeon, and has been for the last few months. It's a Gecko- and Gnome-based web browser. As such, it is very fast, because it uses a native graphics toolkit (Gtk+) and does very nice rendering. Give it a try - the guys have RPMs for RedHat, Slackware packages, and it's already in Debian sid - just apt-get install galeon. It is significantly faster than Mozilla and offers pretty much the same web browser functionality, if not even better. Stability with Mozilla 0.9.3 and Galeon 0.11.5 is pretty much perfect - I don't recall a single crash with this combo. And it seems like it's becoming the default browser for GNOME - somethind I'd definitely love to see.

Just a note to those using Konqueror - I don't know what the claims that it supports CSS are based on. I haven't yet tried the latest KDE 2.2, but the one in 2.1.1 just doesn't cut it.