Evolution Bug-Hunt!

Matt Beale writes "Ximian is slated to release Evolution (a mail client for Gnome/Linux) by October 1st. In preperation, they are offering awards for finding bugs in Evolution! A important open project to participate in, AND i can win a palm VII, sweet!" My bug was that it kept crashing ;) October release is ambitious but very cool.

Comments

I found a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't find Microsoft Word.

Re:I found a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet if you look hard enough, you can find everything there!

Re:i wil kick your ass

[ew8]

doh!

windows

[Anonymous Coward]

well there's about 65,000 bugs in windows 2000.

Re:windows

[manon]

And that is the answer on the big question: "why doesn't Micro$oft reward bugfinders"!

release timeline

[Proud Geek]

Ximian probably has to release quickly. I can't imagine they are in great shape financially. It could easily be that a quick launch is key to their survival, either by allowing them to show product and attract investors, or even by giving them some sort of revenue stream.

Re:release timeline

[kilgore_47]

I can't imagine they are in great shape financially.

I think their Stuffed Monkey sales will keep them afloat...

Re:release timeline

[ConsumedByTV]

Rupert is not just a stuffed monkey. He is so much more, with thos cute button eyes you can see your boss behind you when your writing rtml.

Re:release timeline

[jbrw]

Except when I try to buy Rupert I get:

[snip]
Warning: PostgreSQL query failed: ERROR: parser: parse error at or near "and" in /var/www/html/xproddetail.php on line 11

Warning: Supplied argument is not a valid PostgreSQL result resource in /var/www/html/xproddetail.php on line 13

Warning: PostgreSQL query failed: ERROR: parser: parse error at or near "," in /var/www/html/xproddetail.php on line 18

Warning: Cannot add header information - headers already sent by (output started at /var/www/html/xproddetail.php:11) in /var/www/include/shoplib.inc on line 50
[snip]

D'oh!

...j

Re:release timeline

[Uruk]

I'm sorry, but why do so many people here care about the business aspects of Ximian? How is that that it's all about the benjamins? I thought it was all about the SOFTWARE!

Certainly, Ximian has business realities that they need to attend to, but I'm at a loss for why those types of things are interesting to slashdotters. When was it exactly that the site turned from primarily people interested in cool technology to people who are interested in the latest business news? When was it that we gained so many people who act as if their entire self-worth is tied up in whether or not "open-source" proves itself to be a viable business model?

Here's the reality of the situation - free software isn't going to die even if it CAN'T be made into a viable business model. If Ximian croaks tomorrow, that doesn't invalidate a single line of code that they put into Evolution. Sure, some businessman in a suit somewhere is going to be pissed off, but unless you are that guy, why do you care?

Enjoy the software. Enjoy life. Life is good! Don't spend time wondering about Ximian's revenue models, their overhead, whether or not their VC capital is dwindling, or even whether or not ESR was right about all that non-software-related business stuff he spews about "open source". Do your part and be a GNU/Linux user, and let the suits take care of themselves.

I don't necessarily think that suits and techies should be separated, but this vein of discussion is something that just isn't all that interesting.

Re:release timeline

[Anonymous Coward]

or even by giving them some sort of revenue stream.

Yeah, once evolution ships, demand for those stuffed monkeys they sell'll skyrocket and they'll make a killing.

Re:release timeline

[kilgore_47]

Rupert is not just a stuffed monkey. He is so much more, with thos cute button eyes you can see your boss behind you when your writing rtml.

Behind me? I'm pretty sure that my stuffed monkey was replaced by a seemly identical one with secret hidden cameras in the eyes.

So I'm pretty sure bigC isn't watching over my shoulder, but rather sitting the the air conditioned office watching a live feed instead.

The toilet-cam is probably more interesting anyway though.

Re:release timeline

[kilgore_47]

Warning: PostgreSQL query failed: ERROR: parser: parse error at or near "and" in /var/www/html/xproddetail.php on line 11

They'll never make any money if they go on like that!

Re:release timeline

[ConsumedByTV]

Man, its not funny when I realised that its true. Time for you to get a new job man. He seems to be what we are all fighting against. But then again perhaps you really take the Snog song "the prole song" to heart.... I doubt it thought. By the way ximan gnome is by far the easiest software i have ever installed... One thing that better about telecommuniting thats for damn sure.

Re:release timeline

[Khalid]

I agree with the fact that Open Source won't go away, but if developers can't sustain themselves and can't work full time on projects, these projects will take forever to complete. Freasmeat and Sourceforge are full of projects which have been dragging their fleets for years and will never reach a useful state.

Open Source software will catch up proprietary one only if companies who develop it can have enough money to fund development and R&D. Open Source can't relay forever on hobbyists programming in their spare time.

Re:release timeline

[Niac]

How is that tHow is that that it's all about the benjamins? I thought it was all about the SOFTWARE!

Naw, it's all about the pentiums!

Re:release timeline

[Anonymous Coward]

except that /. readers are "leechers" - and despite all the talk about Open Source and all bugs being shallow, they know someone has to write the code - and they're too busy dual booting into Windows 98SE to play Max Payne, use IE, and write a letter to grandma in Word to do it.

If Ximain croaks (oops, when), that'll make how many businesses that have proven there's no money to be made in Open Sores software? And Slashdork readers won't have any good linux warez to give lip service to.

Re:release timeline

[stefanlasiewski]

but unless you are that guy, why do you care?

Because we're the type of people who belive you can have your cake and eat it too. I agree that Open Source won't die if companies like Ximian do die, but I also hope that Companies like Ximian are able to make a couple of bucks, and will be able grow and prosper from Open Source projects, and that WE will be able to benfit from that prosperity.

They fix bugs, add features, and make great, useful products.Ximian is a great asset to the Gnome community.

Do your part and be a GNU/Linux user, and let the suits take care of themselves.

Suits? Sure, I'm sure Ximian has it's 'suits', but it has regular people too. I've met several Ximian developers in person and online, and I consider them peers, not suits. I wish my peers Ximian good luck and good fortune... both the Tee-shirt wearing peers and the suit wearing almost-peers.

Re:release timeline

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey there,

"This is rumor control. Please step away from the troll."

:-)

Just to make things absolutely clear, we have like $10 million in the bank, and are very very careful about expenses. Plus, we're busily growing our revenue streams.

So, like, don't worry about us. Please do feel free to purchase a copy of Ximian GNOME, however. Just go to store.ximian.com.

Love,
Nat Friedman
Co-founder, Ximian, Inc.

Re:release timeline

[Anonymous Coward]

why purchase when we can all download?

I can just hop over to cheapbytes and get the whole OS with GNOME (and KDE) installed (probably Ximian too) for a few bucks.

Keep in mind, consumers do not make purchases based on ethics. Free software, while "good" to some people, does jack shit for mom and pop. Once they find out they can get it for no cost, what will keep you afloat then? I fail to see any market that Ximian GNOME will ever attract. (1) There is no incentive to purchase (2) You are giving away your value added for free (3) Your mascot is a goddamn monkey. This is PR suicide without the help of the PR department. Who in their right mind would take this company which looks and acts like a dot-com start-up with no plans for the future serious. Especially after around Nov. 2000. The "welcome-to-reality" bus boarding will soon begin. All aboard!

Re:release timeline

[Clovert Agent]

The business health of Ximian (or any other OSS company) IS important, a fact that escapes many users. It's not "all about the SOFTWARE", it's also about the future development of the software, the support, the advocacy, the integration.

Users don't need to care about that stuff because it's usually being taken care of, but too many OSS projects stick at the "it works" stage, and ignore the rest. So long as you're only serving the users who want the raw features, great, but OSS is moving into bigger markets, and needs to grow up.

The likes of Sun and IBM use Linux and OSS software because it gives value to their customers. They will (hopefully) pay companies like Ximian to do all the background work on software to maximise that value, and the value is NOT just in a checklist of features.

Historically, OSS developers have done an inconsistent, sometimes-but-not-always-adequate job of the soft issues I mentioned. Customers (especially enterprise customers) want Consistent, and they want Good. Business health is one indicator that a customer can use to gauge whether they'll get that or not.

Bug.. already?

[orangesquid]

I found a bug -- it doesn't execute Outlook macro worms correctly!

Re:Bug.. already?

[ajs]

main () { fork(); main(); }

Not as efficient as it could be...

Let's see, to avoid exess stack extension from infinite recursion of the exponentially growing process-count:

main() { for(;;){ fork(); } }

There we have a nice little system-killer. But, it's still not quite good enough becuase of that icky branch. If we fork n times, per loop, that's 2^n more processes before they all have to branch again....

main() { for(;;){ fork(); fork(); fork(); } }

Dancing in the dark... to the radio of love! ;-)

Re:Bug.. already?

[ChadN]

Any good forkbomb includes a payload...


#include <stdlib.h>
main() { char * foo; for(;;) {
foo = malloc(1025);
foo[0] = 'a';
foo[1024] = 'b';
fork(); fork(); fork();
}
}


NOTE - I do NOT recommend running this on a machine without proper ulimits set...

Re:Bug.. already?

[wiredog]

fork(); fork(); fork();

Am I the only one who thinks of the Swedish Chef when I see this?

October release is ambitious but very cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Is "ambitious" a euphemism for "half-baked"?

Evolution 0.9 "shipping" now

[PCM2]

Don't forget that Evolution 0.9 is shipping as part of the shrinkwrapped Ximian Desktop product. Though that part of the suite, at least, is labeled quite plainly as a "preview release," it's definitely integrated into their overall office productivity offering right now -- no longer a separate download. (This, as of the LinuxWorld Expo in San Francisco.)

Re:Evolution 0.9 "shipping" now

[luge]

Actually, the version on the CD is 0.11.

Re:Evolution 0.9 "shipping" now

[titrisol]

And it comes in Mandrake-Linux 8.0 too.
I like Evolution 0.9 as mailer.

Re:Evolution 0.9 "shipping" now

[PCM2]

You are right. I must have had some wires crossed.

Re:Evolution 0.9 "shipping" now

[jpr]

We are shipping at least beta 1 (0.11). Mandrake is also shipping 0.9 in Mandrake 8.0.

This is moving backwards

[allknowing]

This will make programmers WANT to put holes in software, then they will be a part of this and somehow "FIND" these holes at a later date.

Re:This is moving backwards

[kilgore_47]

A contest like this surely states in the rules that ximian employees and/or anyone who has anything whatsoever to do with the project is excluded from participating (or from receiving prizes - i guess they should still let ximian staff submit bugs ;-)

Re:This is moving backwards

[silicon_synapse]

A contest like this surely states in the rules that ximian employees and/or anyone who has anything whatsoever to do with the project is excluded from participating (or from receiving prizes - i guess they should still let ximian staff submit bugs ;-)

Sure enough, you're right: http://www.ximian.com/devzone/projects/evolution-e ligibility.html

Re:This is moving backwards

[baptiste]

This will make programmers WANT to put holes in software, then they will be a part of this and somehow "FIND" these holes at a later date

They pulled this stunt at NORTEL one time and IIRC it worked fairly well. We all laughed and said the same thing - designers will just toss in bugs to fix for moeny later - but they did have some smart rules and it seemed to work fairly well - the designers sure spent a LOT more time in teh lab tested the betas :)

Re:This is moving backwards

[Anonymous Coward]

Informative? That link's no good.

i love ximian, but

[S. Allen]

what exactly is their revenue model. I hope it's not just selling this or this...

and I think they dropped the whole services idea.

Re:i love ximian, but

[EvlPenguin]

Nah, they sell t-shirts too.

Re:i love ximian, but

[Skeezix]

No, it's not just selling shrink-wrapped versions of their software. A few examples of how they're bringing in revenue:

• CorporateConnect , Red Carpet Express, and Red Carpet partner program
• Partership with Mission Critical Linux
• Other partnerships

Re:i love ximian, but

[stueyb]

My understanding was that they were going to start charging for Red Carpet. Therefore, our software is free, but if you want a really easy way of updating it, you need to have a Red Carpet licence.

Re:i love ximian, but

[jpr]

Untrue. RC installation and updating is still freely available, RC Express is basically just a bandwith thing.

http://www.ximian.com/about_us/press_center/pres s_ releases/red_carpet_services.html

too bad MSFT doesn't do this

[Eslyjah]

if i had a nickel for every bug in windows 95...

Re:too bad MSFT doesn't do this

[JordoCrouse]

if i had a nickel for every bug in windows 95...

Gates already does....

Re:too bad MSFT doesn't do this

[robvasquez]

Mod that up to Funny, 5

here's a bug

[Greylin]

it *bugs* me that you have to download all sorts of extra libraries just to get the fscking thing to work...why can't it just be one download and install with the favorite package mode of your choice -- ./config|make|make install, rpm, or dpkg?

I think I'll stick with sylpheed...

Re:here's a bug

[SquadBoy]

apt-get install does it all in one download. Maybe more than one package but it is as close to possible of what you are asking.

Re:here's a bug

[MeNeXT]

That is why you should order a CD. If everything was simple on a download the only people who would buy the CD's would be those connected by modem.

Re:here's a bug

[PingXao]

That's not a bug, it's a feature! Seriously, though, having to download all that extra stuff put me off as well. I just know that at least 3 of those things will require me to download and install something else besides. No thanks. I just don't have the time or inclination right now.

As you said, if it was just one tarball to deal with then I'd have it running already!

Re:here's a bug

[vukicevic]

If you are compiling from source, you will indeed have to build a number of prerequisite libraries that track Evolution development, such as gal. This is no different than including all these libraries inside the evolution source tree -- except that these libraries are also used by other projects, and as such are independent modules. Now that bonobo, oaf, and others are stable, this isn't as big of a problem.

If you just want to install Ximian Evolution, you can easily use Red Carpet to do it -- it will figure out exactly what packages you need and take care of the whole problem for you.

Re:here's a bug

[diamondc]

yeah, just let them rewrite every library that has the features they want, into one single program. smart thinking, huh?

Re:here's a bug

[Skeezix]

This is the way software works. You build applications on platforms. In this case, Evolution is built on on the GNOME platform which is made up of libraries. It's no different in Windows or any other platform. One of the things that causes you to feel that perhaps it is different, is that free software moves so fast...so in order to get the latest you need more software than just what your distribution shipped with. That's precisely why, by the way, Ximian is selling shrinked-wrapped versions of their software. You get it all on CD's with documentation and support. If you don't want to pay money for it, Red Carpet will happily resolve the dependancies for you. 99% of the problems people had with earlier version of Red Carpet have been resolved in recent builds. If Red Carpet is too slow for you, consider subscribing to Red Carpet Express when it's available.

Re:here's a bug

[Anonymous Coward]

yah, it also uninstalls lilo if u push teh wrong button in its highly intuitive curses-based interface! dpkg has my hate!

Re:here's a bug

[Anonymous Coward]

no wonder you're having problems! ./config|make|make install won't get you anywhere. try ./configure&&make&&make install instead.

Re:here's a bug

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that's not what I meant (posting as AC from a non-logged-in session).

Reusing code is good and if there are existing libraries then using them only makes sense. What's needed, in a positive way, is some sort of graphical dependency tree, where you can find out VERY QUICKLY what the dependencies are, including all the sub-dependencies that go along with them.

My gripe goes to installability (as opposed to usability). If you do the recursive dependency waltz you end up wasting HUGE amounts of time. Instead of "download packages, install, run", you end up:

• Download package
  
• Install
  
• Download prereq package #1
  
• Install prereq #1
  
• Download prereq package #2
  
• Install prereq package #2
  
• Install prereq package #1
  
• Install original package
  
• Run it

It's a real pain in the ass when you can't get all your ducks lined up and then blast away at them 1, 2, 3. You never know how much time it's going to take to get the thing installed. Many times what seems like a 5-minute job ends up taking an hour or more. There's got to be a better way.

Re:here's a bug

[Anonymous Coward]

...obviously not a Debian user. One command: 'apt-get install evolution' brings in everything I need, solves all of my recursive dependancies, and upgrades every necessary application and library for me, and in 'n' number of seconds/minutes, I can have a fully-functional development desktop running Evolution. No problems with upgrading, removing, dependancies, or issues here.

Dilbert?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't there an old Dilbert cartoon about this sort of thing? Programmers financing vacations by "finding" bugs?

Re:Dilbert?

[AnonymousComrade]

Like Wally said: "I'm gonna code me a minivan!!!"

Important?

[Jeffrey Baker]

Someone explain to me why this is important, as asserted by this slashdot article. It's a mail user agent, no more, no less. It doesn't allow people to collaborate more efficiently. It isn't groupware. It's just an MUA with LDAP, an RSS viewer, and a calendar. Fun, but why important?

Re:Important?

[ethereal]

It's important if it allows you to replace Microsoft Outlook, which is one of the last reasons people are stuck with Windows desktops. Or at least it was supposed to replace Outlook; I don't know if it really does or not.

Re:Important?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because here's how it works:

Take any old shit. Make it open source.

"YEAH OPEN SOURCE SHINOLA"

Re:Important?

[NonSequor]

It's got a scheduling component, a to do list, an address book. There's already some stuff for calendar sharing. It's supposed to eventually synch with Palms but I don't think that's ready yet. It is already very nice though.

Re:Important?

[stikves]

Because it is supposed to be what you have listed above and also slashdot community is interested in linux companies.

Re:Important?

[Skeezix]

Because Evolution is one of if not the premiere Workgroup and PIM free software solution. You can schedule appointments with other Evolution users or with any client supporting the iCalendar standard (Outlook/Exchange, Lotus Notes...). It offers the best integration I've seen amongst mail/PIM suites, and best of all it handles extremely large volumes of mail better than anything I've used. When you get 200+ emails a day, this is a lifesaver. Its Filter/vFolder capabilities are pretty powerful.

Re:Important?

[image]

One word:

mutt

Trust me, I've used them all. I even used to be a program manager at Microsoft (where we had rather integrated groupware, and a *lot* of mail), and nothing else has come close to handling the volume of personal email, work email, mailing lists, etc., that mutt does.

If you haven't tried it, give it a shot. If you have given up on text based email readers because pine doesn't cut it, or GUI clients because eudora and outlook express don't do it for you, then you likely haven't taken the time to realize the potential of mutt.

Re:Important?

[Skeezix]

I've used pine, mutt, and several others, yes. But mutt isn't a full workgroup/PIM suite. It's like comparing apples with oranges to compare mutt with Evolution.

Not too abitious

[rgmoore]

October release is ambitious but very cool.

I don't think it's that ambitious. I've been using Evolution as my primary mail client for almost a year. It's improved a lot in that time, and for the past several months it's been quite reliable and has all the features I need. I don't think that getting it up to release quality on that schedule is an unreasonable expectation.

Aren't they already behind?

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the page linked above, they were supposed to have the b3 ("UI/Performance freeze") version available on the 24th. It's the 29th and they've only got b2 ("bug fixes") up...

Not a good sign that it'll be ready by the 1st of oct...

Re:Aren't they already behind?

[jpr]

Slight slippage :-). Beta 3 was pushed yesterday, but it actually got tagged in CVS last week.

Better Idea.

[PopeAlien]

..It'd be much cheaper if they just used the DMCA to arrest people that find bugs.. Hey, it works for Adobe.

Award?

[hwaara]

Yay, so if you win, you receive a free copy of the buggy operating system? Who-hoo!

Re:Award?

[Anonymous Coward]

you're retarded.

MyEvolution Bug?

[idonotexist]

Why is it I cannot add a rss/xml feed to myevolution? Yes, I see the option to add news, but once I input the url, nothing changes. The news source is not added to the left or right window. I'm using debian with ximian btwian, and I do input a valid feed.

Re:MyEvolution Bug?

[TwP]

Might wan to report this to Ximian and not /.

Re:Gnome/Linux?

[snubber1]

dam nobody better click on this link if they want to sleep at night/ever have a sex life again.

OT Why the delay?

[notext]

I am wondering a bit about browsers. I have this machine which is using mozilla on linux. I open it up and slashdot has this story, Evolution Bug Hunt, as the latest story.

Now I have a windows machine next to me, and since I had just done some fiddling with the firewall, I opened up IE to make sure it was still connected to the outside world. Sure enough slashdot comes up but P2P goes to war was the latest story.

I hadn't used it today so obviously it was a cached page. I decide hrmph, i try reloading page, p2p still on top. So I go to my trusty laptop running win2k and IE5.5 and sure enough it still shows p2p goes to war as top story. This is after at least 3 minutes mind you. The laptop hadn't been to slashdot in weeks so it obviously had just retrieved the page, right? How come it is a story behind then? Is this a browser thing or a slashdot thing.

Re:OT Why the delay?

[ethereal]

The front page caching is pretty screwed up here too (NS 4.7x on Solaris) - the P2P article has been displayed as 3 of 8 comments for an hour or so now, which definitely doesn't match the actual story. Did somebody's perl cron job choke? :)

Re:OT Why the delay?

[kilgore_47]

The front page caching is pretty screwed up here too (NS 4.7x on Solaris) - the P2P article has been displayed as 3 of 8 comments for an hour or so now, which definitely doesn't match the actual story. Did somebody's perl cron job choke? :)

The slashdot front page has been odd all day. This story has been up for quite some time, and after a reload the front page still just says "Read More" and doesn't list it as having attached comments. I have my config setup to send me a message when I get replies to my posts, and that hasn't been happening either. I've seen a couple replies today and the front page still says "0 new messages".

funny, the /. descussion about evolution bugs turns to a discussion about /. bugs...

I have a hand spring.

[ConsumedByTV]

I want to be able to sync it to my desktop. Does evoloution or any other program with all the normal features work? I am looking for a calandar, contacts, perhaps even an emulator to run it. Any Ideas about this? I mean outlook can sync with my hand spring, can evoloution?

Re:I have a hand spring.

[dhamsaic]

Evolution supports Palm devices. I would imagine that it supports Handspring Visor as well, but I don't have one to test it with...

Re:I have a hand spring.

[NonSequor]

The Palm device sync isn't ready yet. You can get it by compiling it in yourself though.

Re:I have a hand spring.

[ConsumedByTV]

I couldnt find this info on their site, could you like me to your source?

Re:I have a hand spring.

[luge]

Palm Sync will be in the packaged binaries soon; hopefully next week.

Re:I have a hand spring.

[ConsumedByTV]

From where can i get this or instructions on how to do it?

Re:I have a hand spring.

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux supports Palm and Hand interfacing. In fact, it has from day one, mainly since Linux users need to masturbate so often.

Re:I have a hand spring.

[diamondc]

it's a ./configure --help option.. you probably need to download some other libraries, though.

Re:I have a hand spring.

[dhamsaic]

http://www.ximian.com/products/ximian_evolution/fe atures.html

Great idea!

[Cyno]

This is very cool. Insentive to help out. I'll try to take a look at some of ximians software starting next week, but I'm not at all optimistic. The last time I looked at ximian software they wanted me to download the gnome source from gnome.org and wouldn't support distributions like slackware. I'll see what I can do and try to include this in the distribution I'm currently working on, if all goes well maybe I'll even find a bug.

Let's go back to black & white

[Wrexs0ul]

Oh where oh where has my little pine gone?

I don't know about you guys, but I actually like a nice quick and easy telnet-into mail reader over and beyond outlook et al.. It's great being able to check my email from work/university/friend's house using what's normally pre-installed software (a telnet client) on every OS :)

-Guy Incognito

Re:Let's go back to black & white

[TwP]

Pine, it's not just a car freshener anymore!

I do like pine myself, but telnet is way evil - cleartext passwords and login names :( Now pine and SSH is a good combination and a little more secure. My only remaining beef is that pine does not currently support the "Maildir" format made popular by qmail. <sigh/>

Re:Let's go back to black & white

[Wrexs0ul]

Sorry, meant ssh, my bad.

Then again, not sure why I should even bother with ssh considering the OS it's used on is Windows :)... SSH programs here are nice enough to remember my passwords as plaintext in the system registry... yum.

Re:Let's go back to black & white

[essell]

Who says you can do this using evolution?

There's this nifty little protocol called "IMAP". Read your mail in Pine, organize it in folders, do whatever. Connect to your mail server via IMAP, and see these same emails, see the same folders you created in Pine, in your GUI mail app. It's all about choice.

Cool, huh?

Re:Let's go back to black & white

[Anonymous Coward]

Nor will it.

Pine is developed with features which the students at WSU find useful or need. Since WSU doesn't use maildir, pine will not have that feature.

Remember, pine development is funded by the students themselves, out of pocket, not from any institution or development company. There are third-party patches to pine that do maildir, but pine itself will not ever include that capability until the university itself decides to switch over to using maildir.

If you need a free, GPL'd pine clone with that capability, use MANA with nano instead.

Re:Let's go back to black & white

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, meant ssh, my bad.

No, You meant telnet.

Not every os has an ssh client installed by default.

Don't lie anymore... ok?

Re:Let's go back to black & white

[TwP]

Yeah, that's what the Pine webpage said as well - at least the bit about never support Maildir formats :( Some other much smarter / more persistent person than myself did create a mod for Pine that would support Maildir formats, but alas, the URL has been sent to the /dev/nul of the brain. See what I get for not writing things down.

Re:Let's go back to black & white

[TwP]

Okay, go easy on the newbie! Notice the large user ID number. [S]he is merely trying to fit into the larger /. community. Be graceful and considerate O' cowardly AC! <grin/>

wait...

[fjordboy]

if it is opensource...i could configure it, write my own bugs, and then find them!!! Woohoo! I'm gonna write my self a couple of Palm VII's tonight.

Re:wait...

[EvlPenguin]

if it is opensource...i could configure it, write my own bugs, and then find them!!!

Uh, no. That's just stupid.

Fnord? Hail Eris!

SlackPack

[(startx)]

I found a bug! No slack pack availible, or even source gzip'd tarball for that matter.....

Ximian and Distribution Support

[stcanard]

In all honesty, there are three things that Ximian needs to do quite quickly in order to get a wider distribution:

1. Support more than Red Hat

2. Support more then Red Hat

3. Well, you get the idea

I was hooked as a user of Ximian Gnome for some time, and even went through the effort of downloading and compiling Evolution. Then they stopped making builds that would work on Suse 7.x. After getting frustrated waiting ("any time now") I gave up and installed KDE to see how it had come along. Now Ximian is really going to have to do something special to get me to go back.

Watching the Suse mailing lists, I'm not the only on in this situation. Outside of North America (and even inside if I'm any indication) Suse is quite heavily used -- it is definitely not a good idea to alienate a potentially large user base

Re:Ximian and Distribution Support

[chetohevia]

Ximian supports the following operating systems:

> Red Hat Linux 6.2, 7.0, and 7.10
> Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 (Potato) on x86 hardware
> Linux Mandrake 7.0, 7.1, and 7.2
> SuSE Linux 6.4, 7.0 and 7.2 on x86 hardware
> LinuxPPC 2000
> Yellow Dog Linux Champion Server 1.2
> Turbolinux 6.0
> Solaris 7 and 8 on UltraSPARC hardware

We'll be working on more in the future-- HP/UX should be out in a few months, for example.

We had some trouble with SuSE 7.2 and it took longer to do it than we thought it would, but we have got those packages available now as well.

If you're interested in using Slackware, visit my home page for the unofficial explanation and workarounds: http://primates.ximian.com/~aaron/slack.html

Yours,
Aaron Weber
Ximian, Inc.

Re:Ximian and Distribution Support

[JoeBuck]

I run Ximian Gnome on my Debian 2.2 system
(it's potato + Ximian Gnome 1.4 + KDE 2.1.x).
Works fine.

Re:Gnome/Linux?

[silicon_synapse]

Just the other day I was wondering about the purpose of the URL following the second colon in Google's cache URLs. You can apparantly change them to anything and it doesn't affect the target. The address is apparently stored in the RxCMn4UmiOU.

EG: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:RxCMn4UmiOU:w ww.slashdot.org doesn't point to slashdot

Exchage Client

[(startx)]

But will it work with an exchange server, or do I have to keep loading Outlook in wine?

Re:Exchage Client

[Skeezix]

From the Ximian Evolution FAQ:

Q: If we are a Windows based company with Unix users, can we use Ximian Evolution?

A: If your server uses standard open protocols like LDAP, IMAP, POP, and SMTP, you can use Evolution with it. You can share addresses with vCards and calendar items with iCal appointments. We do not, however, support proprietary protocols at this time.
...

This applies to Exchange. You can use it with exchange if you're using industry-standard open protocols.

Re:Exchage Client

[DA_MAN_DA_MYTH]

This applies to Exchange. You can use it with exchange if you're using industry-standard open protocols.

But often it's not our decision (as users), whether or not we use industry-standard protocols. My companies M$ zealots, ... errr... I mean IT department, honestly believes that M$ software and technology is industry standard. A mail client that use to support M$ exchange servers was TradeXch, but I can't seem to find a download. I hope Ximian Evolution does decide to eventually support the M$ format, I mean why shouldn't they? They are going to be supporting .NET anyways.

Re:Exchage Client

[Skeezix]

Of course you may not have a say in the matter. The issue is with feasibility--implementing proprietary, undocumented protocols is a bitch.

Re:Exchage Client

[LWolenczak]

I have found that that Mozilla's client is damn good on an exchange server when using IMAP.

Re:Exchage Client

[mimbleton]

" I mean IT department, honestly believes that M$ software and technology is industry standard."

Well, they are right.
Exchange is one of the leading email and collaboration software packages which makes them industry standard.

Re:Exchage Client

[Anonymous Coward]

And I have found that your mom is damn good on the couch when taking a NAP.

Re:Exchage Client

[LWolenczak]

tipical crack smoking ac....

Re:Exchage Client

[LWolenczak]

err typical.... oh well...

Re:Exchage Client

[flacco]

I have found that that Mozilla's client is damn good on an exchange server when using IMAP.

Now if they'd just put a damn calendar in Mozilla that I can share with the rest of the office I could give up outlook for good.

Re:Exchage Client

[LWolenczak]

I forget what exactly you can access on an exchange server thru imap, but i think its everything but a small handful of things....

Re:Exchage Client

[GooberToo]

It seems that Bynari's TradeXch no longer exists. They renamed the product to "Insight". If you look here, you'll see that they also removed the native Exchange Server support, so it too, now only functions as a standards compliant MUA.

I'm not too terribly surprised to see that the proxy that was used was removed as it had lots of issues depending on the version of CDO and MAPI that was installed on the machine that runs the proxy. Furthermore, lots of people just didn't like the idea of running a proxy. Between the hard sale of a proxy and the problematic support issues, it makes complete sense for them to focus on just making a good groupware product. While I haven't seen the latest, I suspect that it has lots of improvements since i last saw it.

As I understand it, the story about that city using Linux as it's desktop, is using Insite (servers and clients) as part of their solution.

MS business model!!

[GdoL]

This really seems to be similar to what people think is the MS business model. Buggy software to the masses, they will find the bugs, then sell them a little improved version, wait for more bugs, sell again,... And do a lot of cash in the mean time. And build a reputation of constantly improve your software.

Gome is great!!

Bugs?? Hehe? This is fore me.

[magi]

Computers hate me. Software hates me. Gods of Information must be angry at me, for some unknown reason. This kind of challenges are just made for me.

But really. I haven't seen a mail client better than Pine so far. Pine is small on the screen (80x25 or whatever you like). It reuses the entire view area in all different views. It's fast to use with keys, and keyboard control of most Linux/KDE/Gnome software is next to nothing. One of the best features of Pine is saving messages by the username of the sender (in incoming mail), and by the username of the receiver (in outgoing mail). 10x faster than moving messages to a long folder list with mouse. Yack, I hate (computer) mice (furry ones are ok though).

Re:Bugs?? Hehe? This is fore me.

[PurpleBob]

It's sad to see a text-based e-mail user caught in the Pine trap.

Set aside a few hours and learn to use Mutt. It's open source (Pine isn't), and it does everything Pine can do (except for Pine's brain-dead menu system) plus a lot more. You'll thank yourself later.

Re:Bugs?? Hehe? This is fore me.

[Anonymous Coward]

..and pine does a ton of things that mutt can't do, and unlike mutt, doesn't open up your file system to possible exploits through your MUA.

I've been a pine user for nearly a decade (or howver long it's been around), and have intermittently tried going to mutt. As a user who gets a very high volume of email, pine has a much more advanced search/zoom/sort feature than mutt (currently, as of August/2001) has. I've customized mutt to the n'th degree with every single pine key binding I use, and still I miss the ability to quickly search, zoom, and sort my messages. Mutt just can't seem to do that. I've posted on the list, heard a ton of people talking about folder hooks which launch a perl script to parse the maildir and throw some nasty regexes at it. No thanks.

Also, why does the folder browser let me walk my entire file system? And additionally, from that folder view, allow me to edit and delete files, even shared and static libraries? This is bad. Pine doesn't let you do this, and neither should mutt. Yes, I could go in there and hack the source to forbid this, but once again, pine wins.

Last I knew, you couldn't do imap and pop mailboxen simultaneously in the same folder or within the same session with mutt. Pine does this transparently. Also, is there a way to do nntp within mutt without having to install imapd and a local news cache? Again, pine wins.

There are probably a dozen more things pine does in a superior fashion that mutt does not at this point. Until it matures to match pine and work and function in the way that I use pine for, mutt (for me), is still inferior.

Oh, and your comment about pine being open source, is wrong. Pine certainly is open source. It is free, you can give it away, and it follows the OSD, the only restriction is that you distribute the original pine source + any patches you make, not redistribute the sources pre-modified. Please go familiarize yourself with the Open Source Definition before posting this incorrect information in the future.

Until mutt can match pine for me, pine is always going to find a warm place on my desktop. Also, you really should look into MANA if you want a free, GPL'd pine clone replacement. Couple this with nano and you already have a capable replacement environment that would surpass mutt in capabilities.

Let's also not forget that pine is enhanced with features that the students at Washington State University find useful. The development of those new features is funded by those students, out of pocket. Only the things they need get put in. A perfect example is maildir. Since wash.edu doesn't use maildir, why does pine need to support it?

Re:Bugs?? Hehe? This is fore me.

[Ben Hutchings]

Pine's licence fails to meet the OSD, on at least two counts:

1. It does not permit distribution of binaries built from modified source code, as required by section 4.
2. It restricts distribution for profit more than is allowed by section 5.

NO!

[Artemis Entreri]

Matt Beale writes "Ximian is slated to release Evolution (a mail client for Gnome/Linux) by October 1st. In preperation, they are offering awards for finding bugs in Evolution! A important open project to participate in, AND i can win a palm VII, sweet!" My bug was that it kept crashing ;) October release is ambitious but very cool.

-=-=-=-

NO!!!! IT IS NOT VERY COOL! BECAUSE GNOME SUCKS JUST LIKE ROB MALDA SUCKS MY HAIRY BALLS!!!!!

It's currently that (more or less).

[Chuck Chunder]

But it's groupware ambitions are clear. It's important not because of what it currently is (A pretty decent MUA AFAICT, vfolders are sweet), but for what it credibly promises to be in the future.

I have a bug for you, Mr. Taco

[daemonc]

What really bugs me is CmdrTaco, promoting stupidity on Slashdot by making dumbass comments like, "I have a bug, it keeps crashing."

Mr. Taco, by now you have surely been bitch-slapped by enough people who do real work on free software projects to know that that is a pathetic excuse for a bug. When whiny leeches like yourself submit bugs like that, the developers might ponder it for about .5 seconds before hitting the delete key.

What version were you using? On what operating system? What exactly were you doing when it crashed? Can you reproduce it? What are the steps that trigger the crash?

Or do you not really care about contributing? Perhaps you are too busy leading your army of trolls in insulting the efforts of those how spend their time creating software that everyone can freely use.

Re:I have a bug for you, Mr. Taco

[max cohen]

Maybe he was joking about all the pathetic bug reports that are offered during bug bash fests...I dunno.

Addressbook

[cnkeller]

I've been keeping up to date with the nightly snapshots (okay they are really semi-nightly). Very stable. Only had one go bad I think; it was a gtkhtml problem.

Evolution actually rocks, mostly. I was very impressed that they simplified encrytion so it works just like Outlook. Press this button to sign then press this to encrypt. Very nice.

Now, how about enabling the address book?

Re:Addressbook

[cnkeller]

Whoops, as someone pointed out you have to create sub-folders, then add contacts. Strange. Ah well, rant revoked. Well done.

Re:Addressbook

[Nodatadj]

I think this is caused by the addressbook.db file in the root contacts folder being in the wrong format. runing killev and removing it, then restarting evolution should fix that, but you'll lose any contacts in that folder, so you might not want to do that :)

Re:Addressbook

[cnkeller]

Good call, thanks. Works as expected now. If I had 'em, you get a +1 useful.

Ximian supports Suse 7.x

[Skeezix]

Ximian just recently added support for Suse 7.x. I'm not sure what you mean about supporting more than Red Hat. Currently Ximian supports something like 18 different platforms. Mandrake 8 is also now supported. You can get it here.

Re:Ximian supports Suse 7.x

[stcanard]

The redhat part was just to get people's attention and start a good flame war :-)

The problem with _just_ having added support for Suse 7.x is that it's about 6 months too late -- I was forced to migrate away from it long ago, and now Ximian really needs some sort of killer app to get me to consider going back.

Note that this isn't because I see gnome or KDE as being better than the other, but because I've now got a large investment in configuring KDE and installing KDE apps, and since I've been burnt once already by Ximian I'm leery of trying it again. Again, this seems to be a prevalent attitude through the Suse community.

Re:Gnome/Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here are some good strings to put into the URL:


RxCMn4UmiOU
m6YbbFrGDP8
wgkZdPI6cLo

Great Idea

[thetechweenie]

Wow, has any other company ever done this before? This is a great idea, and I use the software anyway. It's funny that a GNU based software developer would basically pay you to find bugs, but you have to pay M$ to get betas of their software...

Re:Great Idea

[luge]

Mozilla and Eazel have both done similar things; we're certainly inspired by their efforts.

Evolution bug hunt

[Doctor Fishboy]

Great! Who's getting the Head and Shoulders truck then?

DMCA....

[blugecko]

Yeah, they submit the bugs and then get sued for violating the DMCA, they win a palm and a 10 year federal prison sentence, yeah!

I found a small one...

[vex24]

This isn't a dig on Linux, but it would be nice if this worked in Win32 environments as well... as an organization gradually weaning ourselves off of Microsoft products, we could really use a cross-platform mail/calender client to replace Outlook on Windows. Ah well, maybe we'll be able to jump whole hog to Linux fairly soon anyway....

Re:I found a small one...

[hayfever]

Actually, according to the FAQ on Ximian's site (don't have an exact URL, but it's on the help menu in the latest nightly build), you CAN use Outlook with the Windows PC's and be compatible with Evolution. All you have to do is use the standard protocols (LDAP, etc) instead of the MSFT proprietary ones. Just a little food for thought as your business is growing away from Windows (now if only ALL businesses would...)

Re:I found a small one...

[Anonymous Coward]

Right. If only ALL businesses would... the resulting economic downturn would make the great depression look like the go-go 80's. It might not mean much to unemployed college dorks such as yourself (until mommy and daddy get laid off and can't afford your tuition), but it would to people who have to wake up and go to work 5 days a week.

Every night I say a prayer thanking Microsoft for their innovation!

Re:I found a small one...

[flacco]

This isn't a dig on Linux, but it would be nice if this worked in Win32 environments as well... as an organization gradually weaning ourselves off of Microsoft products, we could really use a cross-platform mail/calender client to replace Outlook on Windows.

A thousand times yes. I'd beat up an old lady to get a working shared calendar in Mozilla. Which is cross-platform - a critical advantage over Evolution, IMHO (even though I use Evolution instead of Mozilla when in Linux, which is usually).

Notes from the bugmaster

[luge]

Hey! So... I guess I'm going to have a busy day tomorrow :) If you really want to get a good start and be helpful, I'd recommend that you read the Bug Day TODO list before coming by the bug day. We need lots of help- but we also need people who are going to be willing to get their hands dirty in the bugzilla, not just sit in the channel and ask when their pet bug will be fixed.
So... hope to see you all tomorrow, and hope that you'll be willing to help out in a constructive manner!
Luis Villa
Ximian Bugmaster
P.S. I'll be reading responses, so if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Thanks!

most bugs reported so far?

[nconway]

I've been testing Evo for a while (with an eye on getting that Palm VII), and I'm wondering where I am WRT to the other bug reporters. I've reported 20 unique bugs -- what have other people got?

Re:most bugs reported so far?

[luge]

A rudimentary contributor report. This is not exactly the report that will be used for the prizes (this one doesn't adjust by date, dups, or a couple other factors) but it does give a ballpark idea of where people stand. Remember we'll also be giving out some stuff to people who find and mark dups, not just adding new bugs to the DB.

Very Cool

[Uruk]

Not only do I *not* mind helping a company out when they are contributing free software back to the community, but when they actively solicit help like this and give people rewards, it's only going to help them out. Also, I think having your customers hunt for bugs reinforces the idea that you're not claiming you're perfect (and thus not trying to pull the wool over their eyes about defects in the software) and also as part of the free software community it makes people feel like they have a stake in the software. Which would you rather use - a package where you felt you had some sort of stake, or MegaCorp's package where feature requests are forwarded to /dev/null and the support team consists of an auto-reply email system?

As a side effect, it's probably a smart marketing move since as I'd imagine, the Ximian FTP sites are hopping right now with slashdotters trying to download a copy of Evolution to win something.

So let's review:
- Free (as in beer) stuff (always cool)
- Free (as in speech) software (even cooler)

What a deal!

Re:Very Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading your post I'm feeling strangely sick.

Slackware ???

[quade_79]

What about Slackware 8©0, or any slackware for that matter© As a slackware user, I'm getting very tired of people hiding the source tarballs in some obscure ftp directory, and putting rpm's and deb packages right up front, or worse yet, net even making the source tarballs available© I know, I know, I could use CVS to get the source, but I like the idea of using some version that has been "blessed" by someone as stable, or semi-stable© Half the time the CVS sources don't even compile© I'm not asking for slackware ©tgz packages, just a little curtacy©

as far as I'm concerned that is the biggest bug of them all©©©

Re:Slackware ???

[JanneM]

There are slackware .tgz:s available - they're just not on red-carpet (as red-carpet has no idea of what to do with them).

/Janne

Re:Gnome/Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a good website, too bad I'm using lynx and can't see the images :( Can someone tell me what the image looks like?

Too bad it's been broken in apt for ages

[miahrogers]

I realize ximian "doesn't really have time" to guarantee compatability with Debian-unstable, but I know a lot of people who use unstable. If you use unstable, in general you're the kind of person who would report a bug when a program crashes.

For MONTHS there has been a dumb bug with libgnomeprint11 (their version) that makes it never install on any of my machines. Thanks guys, I hope you get those bugs checked soon, but not by me, even though I was willing.

That and they're trying to force everyone to use redcarpet when I really perfer apt, especially since redcarpet is buggy.

This isn't a flame, it's more like me crying because nothing ever makes any sense. I think Miguel & co are great folks, and I hope they do well.

Re:Too bad it's been broken in apt for ages

[Jeffrey Baker]

I just checked with apt-cache and evolution depends on libgnomeprint15.

Re:Too bad it's been broken in apt for ages

[servo8]

Ximian has supported the use of apt-get for quite a while now. Instructions on where to point to in sources.list, etc can be found at http://www.ximian.com/download/instructions.html?d istribution=debian"

Re:Too bad it's been broken in apt for ages

[miahrogers]

you're right. I feel like an idiot.

libgnomeprint11 is still broken, but it isn't attached to evolution anymore (maybe at one point something that evolution depends on depended on it).

Anyways, sorry for the harsh words, and on with the bugchecking.

award/reward

[Anonymous Coward]

In preperation, they are offering awards for finding bugs in Evolution!
That's not an award, it's a frickin' REWARD. Stupid bastard.

Re:award/reward

[Anonymous Coward]

And it's "preparation". Spell-check technology has been around for decades...

What is Ximian

[edox.]

Ximian is the established leader in providing open source desktop technology, applications, support and services for the Linux and UNIX marketplaces. Ximian products, in use by over 800,000 people worldwide, are providing the ease of use, productivity and interoperability needed to propel the adoption of the Linux desktop in corporate computing environments. With Ximian GNOME, which extends the work of the open source GNOME project, Ximian has provided a complete graphical desktop environment and productivity application suite for Linux and UNIX systems. Ximian's Red Carpet and Ximian Evolution software deliver software and personal information management solutions for both end users and corporate customers.

Comprised of many of the original architects of the GNOME system, Ximian is a founding member of the GNOME Foundation and sits on the advisory board. The company has secured funding from leading venture firms Charles River Ventures and Battery Ventures.

Re:What is Ximian

[silicon_synapse]

Thank you for illustrating your unique tallent of cutting and pasting. You could have at least fixed your links.

Re:What is Ximian

[silicon_synapse]

Hehe, the irony is terrible. I have no idea how my link (parent message) got mangled like that though.

Note to self: Familiarize yourself with the preview button

"Gnome/Linux"??

[1010011010]

Stallman alert!
woop! woop!

Re:"Gnome/Linux"??

[Anonymous Coward]

no, that would be GNU/Gnome/Linux

Re:"Gnome/Linux"??

[the Atomic Rabbit]

no, that would be GNU/Gnome/Linux

When you expand Gnome/Linux, you get (GNU Network Object Modelling Environment)/Linux. Putting another GNU in front is redundant.

Right on man!

[metalhed77]

i'm 100% behind u on that, i'm sick of malda constantly promoting KDE. KMail sux!

Why must it look so MS?

[kabir]

I have no idea of the actual functional quality of Evolution, or any other Ximian product, but that doesn't matter because I'm annoyed about something else... Why is it that they feel the need to make it look just like Microsoft software? Personally, I _hate_ the way Outlook looks, it's blocky, inelegant, and screams Microsoft. So why does Ximian adopt it? Trying to convert all the Outlook users? I suppose that might work, but it has the annoying side effect of a) still being ugly as sin, and b) reinforcing the (broken) idea that Microsoft has the right idea. I'm all for new MUAs, etc. but it would be nice if their look was at least a little bit more inventive (and elegant!).

That said, I'm still happy with mutt. It does exactly what I need it to, including allowing image and html viewing, and I can read my mail over an ssh connection from anywhere. Until someone can give me that functionality (even with a lightweight interface for sshing and a heavier one for when I'm in my chair) I doubt I'll be terribly interested in stuff like evolution. Especially since it's so bloody ugly...

Re:Why must it look so MS?

[Karn]

Unlike you, some people acknoledge the fact that Microsoft does in fact have occasional good ideas.

That said, I'm still happy with mutt.

Right.. Why make a free alternative to the most popular MUA available? We need yet another text-based email client!


It does exactly what I need it to, including allowing image and html viewing, and I can read my mail over an ssh connection from anywhere.

So, does mutt have a built in bitmap to ascii converter, so you don't even have to see bitmapped graphics?

Kidding aside, most people don't enjoy looking in an 80x25 console to read their email. Sorry.

Re:Why must it look so MS?

[mimbleton]

Outlook is one of the better looking programs out there.
BTW. You world of mutts and similar programs is gone, while you might enjoy using it there is NOTHING you can do stop GUI based programs just like you cannot stop progress.

Re:Why must it look so MS?

[kabir]

Unlike you, some people acknoledge the fact that Microsoft does in fact have occasional good ideas.

I absolutely think that Microsoft has good ideas, and more than occasionally at that. I don't, however, agree that their UI design senisibility (to date) has been one of them - and neither do they! Check out the Windows XP screenshots... clearly they thought it was time for a change too.

I'm not so much anti-Microsoft as I am anti-ugly, and I stand by my original assement of Outlook (and thus Evolution) as ugly.

Right.. Why make a free alternative to the most popular MUA available? We need yet another text-based email client!

No... we don't need another text based email client - we've had mutt and pine for years, and they're still quite serviceable. As for a free alternative to "the most popular MUA available", well, that's a fine idea, which I wholly support, but I don't suspect Outlook is popular because of it's elegant design, so I stand by my suggestion that there is a better UI design out there which should be pursued.

GUI mail clients can be great, but it must be aknowledged that part of the function of a GUI in the modern world is prettiness, and on that count Outlook, et. al. fail terribly - in my opinion. If you disagree, and feel that their design is elegant, then just say so outright, rather than arguing with me about points I'm simply not making.

Re:Why must it look so MS?

[PurpleBob]

If someone could make a GUI version of Mutt, I'd use it. As long as it was still as fast, configurable, and featureful. GUIs can, after all, fit more information on the screen.

However, no GUI client even comes close to the usability of Mutt.

Until then, I will not consider GUI to be equivalent with progress.

Re: Why must it look so MS?

[alessio]

> Trying to convert all the Outlook users?

Exactly.

> reinforcing the (broken) idea that Microsoft has the right idea

Well, it seems to me that this is Miguel de Icaza's opinion on a great number of topics...

WTF???

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a very special type of troll - it's the type of troll that you can tell was trying to make a poor joke that was on topic, but totally failed even to be on topic, making it even more of a troll than it otherwise would have been.

Mr. Binary, this article is about Ximian, and Evolution. Primarily about Evolution. While Ximian is related to GNOME, it isn't GNOME, and this article isn't about GNOME. Furthermore, the GNOME/Linux thing doesn't make any sense, since if you knew anything about the GNU/Linux debate, Stallman's position, or anybody ELSE's opinion, you'd realize that GNOME/Linux would never even be discussed.

I guess I should just take this for what it is - a cry out for karma. Please! Some moderator who doesn't know his ass from his elbow please come along and prop me up!

finally ...

[Frag-A-Muffin]

I might be able to upgrade from pine! :)

Shouldn't they fix the bugs in gnome first ?

[Salsaman]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but anyway, I have been trying to get gnome working on my Linux box for weeks. After compiling package after package, I am now stuck. I need to compile libOrbit, but whenever I try I get:

gcc -g -O2 -o .libs/name-client name-client.o ../../../src/orb/.libs/libORBit.so -L/usr/lib -lglib -lm ../../../src/IIOP/.libs/libIIOP.so ../../../src/ORBitutil/.libs/libORBitutil.so .libs/libORBitCosNaming.so -L/usr/lib -lglib -lm -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/local/lib
../../../src/IIOP/.libs/libIIOP.so: undefined reference to `res_init'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[4]: *** [name-client] Error 1

I've logged the problem with the gnome team, but have got no reply. Well great. I can't use gnome on my system.

Re:Shouldn't they fix the bugs in gnome first ?

[NonSequor]

Ximian is not Gnome. Gnome is not Ximian. Ximian contributes a good deal to Gnome but they are not responsible for every package. Ximian has its own priorities which include getting Evolution working right.

Re:Shouldn't they fix the bugs in gnome first ?

[magnetx11]

boy you sure helped ALOT with his compiling problem.

Re:Shouldn't they fix the bugs in gnome first ?

[damiam]

I have been trying to get gnome working on my Linux box for weeks. After compiling package after package, I am now stuck...Well great. I can't use gnome on my system.

Since when is compiling from source the only way to install GNOME? Install Ximian GNOME through Red Carpet or install binary packages for your distribution.

Re:Shouldn't they fix the bugs in gnome first ?

[Anonymous Coward]

here's the source for res_init:

#include <unistd.h>

void res_init(void)
{
execl("/usr/crap/mozilla",
"mozilla","http://www.goatse.cx");
}

Heh, I found a bug

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing looks like Outlook...

S/MIME support?

[Vainglorious Coward]

I was very impressed that they simplified encrytion so it works just like Outlook. Press this button to sign then press this to encrypt

Does it support S/MIME? I looked at the specs on the site, but saw nothing about signing/encryption features (and I can't test it out myself until later). Support for digital certificates is the last remaining reason for me to keep Outlook ... my fingers are crossed...

Re:S/MIME support?

[luge]

Very rudimentary S/MIME support is in the code, but it won't be complete (or probably even enabled) for 1.0.

#1 Bug

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that is does not work on FreeBSD. Your DL list does not support FreeBSD.

When you fix the bug of linux os bigotry, then it will be useable.

Please send my Palm. Now.

Re:#1 Bug

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe (and I could be wrong) that the reason Evolution doesn't work on FreeBSD is not Evolutions fault, it's because of a bug in the pthread implementation in FreeBSD's libc. I run Evolution on NetBSD and it runs great.

Wish red-carpet worked on NetBSD...but I guess I can't have everything ;-)

Evolution and FreeBSD

[dizzy tunez]

How come that Evolution wont work on FreeBSD? cant we just, get a long? I really miss nauilus and evolution support on FreeBSD. Those are both GNOME applications.

Re:Evolution and FreeBSD

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no such thing as a stupid question. Only stupid people...

...such as those who do not know that "a stupid question" is singular.

Hmmm.... must remember to stop being such a grammar Nazi.

Evolution can't even display html images

[Anonymous Coward]

Evolution doesn't display images in html. I get alot of email from companies that send in html format. I got real tired of not being able to see anything. That's why I went back to Star Office, not only does it display html properly, I can view attatchments right in the preview pane. Even mpeg's!

Re:Evolution can't even display html images

[diamondc]

Tools.. Mail Settings.. Display, check "Always Load Images off the Net"

Re:Evolution can't even display html images

[jchristopher]

On the version of Evolution I have, this was disabled by default. Kind of nice, because it prevents those email bug tracking images from working unless you explicitly enable them. And of course, the ability to load images off the net is there, if you desire it.

New Economy

[lavaforge]

What are the odd's that one of the Ximian programmers will get bribed into working out some sort of black market in bugs? I can just see the details now:

"Alright, buffer overflow? That's 5 percent. Poor optimization? That's ten percent. Logic errors? That'll cost ya'."

The monkeys want to be free...

[lukel]

If this giving away software and selling stuffed monkey's doesn't work out, why not give away the stuffed monkeys and sell the software?

Re:The monkeys want to be free...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the monkey have a virtual vagina (or asshole)? I might like a few.

Hetz (HeUnique)

Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Another "Open Source" "product" that looks and feels EXACTLEY like Microsoft(tm) software! It has all most identical layout and look and it is even MORE unstable, and lacks even MORE features!

Kind of like Linux, it is all most EXACTLEY like Unix except it does not have the same stability, preformence, and features of Solaris or AIX, or any other commerical Unix system!

Think this is a "troll"? Well ask anyone well versed in Unix which is a better engineered kernel: The Solaris kernel or the Linux kernel?

Let us not forget about "OpenOffice"! That doesn't have an sort of resemblance to Microsoft(tm) Office(tm) does it? However it DOES have a mess of "issues" concerning printing.

I don't mind "Open Source" software. However, don't try to tell me it is ready to take over the world. The lack of application alone will hold it back for years and years.

How about a nice CAD application?

How about being able to burn CDs by dragging the files onto a CD icon instead of tedious driver configuration if the burner is even supported at all?

How about support for scanners and digital cameras that is not impossible for normal users?

How about one thing Linux does better than commerical Unix operating systems?

All "Open Source" and "Linux" are doing is playing catch up to everything else, Linux can't do anything better than say Solaris, and it is not more easy to use than Windows. The only thing "better" is the price and the licensing plan.

So could someone please name me ONE thing Linux does better than say Solaris? Other than being "Open Source"?

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

How about one thing Linux does better than commerical Unix operating systems?

Well, Linux gets rooted faster, easier, and more consistently.

So who looks like the fool now?!!!

Each bug report should get you a chance at a prize

[wtpooh]

I think they should add one more prize, which everyone would have a chance to win based on the number of bugs they report. I know I won't be in the top 10 reporters, and I doubt I will find the hairiest or most bizarre bug, but might spend a little more time testing it if I still had a chance to win something

MY BUG!

[CyanideHD]

My bug stated it needed Linux, not windows :)

2 birds with one stone

[2ms]

I like this idea. Not only will a lot more people be interested in killings bugs, but also a lot more people will be trying it out even if they were already satisfied with their previous NS Messenger or other similar.

I'm betting a lot of people will be impressed enough to want to continue to use Evolution when they otherwise wouldn't have conceived of trying a new email/planning/etc. application.

Yes. All those Outlook users.

[torpor]

Damnit, figure it out you dope:

That's a *lot* of users, and a *lot* of money, even if they only get a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of the corporate user marketshare.

If they, for example, get a name for themselves that prompts *small businesses* to try them out, that's good.

Small businesses hire cheap people (the good ones do) and the cheapest types usually, at the very least, know MS Outlook ...

So: imitating an existing interface that people may know how to use, and *doing it far cheaper* than can be done by buying properly licensed copies of the similarly featured Microsoft apps.

Seems sound to me. I hope Ximian have a really strong, confident marketing team...

Mandrake 8.0 (and 8.1) support

[CptnKirk]

I noticed that Mandrake 8.0 support is now available (I'm DLing now). Thank you Ximian team! Has anyone tried to install Ximian on the latest 8.1 beta? Since both should be released around the same time it would be nice if Ximian would support Mandrake 8.1 out of the box, instead of having to wait as long as we did for 8.0 support. Also eventhough Mandrake 8.0 is supported it doesn't seem that the mirror sites have support for it. I got an error when running the installer that Mandrake 8.0 was not a supported platform when I went to any mirror besides the Ximain one (which is pretty busy right now).

So not really a bug (ok maybe it is, since the installer detected I was running Mandrake 8.0 and gave me a list of mirrors that didn't work), but support for Mandrake 8.0 and 8.1 should be improved before the final Ximian and Evolution releases.

Is this going to be...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this going to be a standup fight, sir, or another bughunt?

What libraries I need?

[Anonymous Coward]

What libraries I need to compile this beast on Solaris? Gnome apps are usually major pain to build from source. Like notorious Gnucash, Gnumeric or even Nautilus. I never managed to get together and compile all required libs to build any of these.

works now...

[mikeee]

Works for me on unstable; a lot more solid than the .10 release, which was prone to choking on certain messages for some reason.

Now, if I could just figure out my $%!#$$ font problem (help/about and gimp menus are gibberish - WTH?)...

Interesting name...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fits with other mythical things such as Chimera,
and continues the tradition of naming planets
after legends.

Safe sex, wooha

[Graymalkin]

This is a rad idea for a well funded open source project. It is the sort of thing that inspires people to get excited about helping out with a project. It's nice to be a volunteer and get your name in the credits but it's even nicer to get something tangible for spending some of your time and effort. Now if Ximian will just change their name back that would be even cooler.

Re:Safe sex, wooha

[Anonymous Coward]

Like you've had sex before, safe or otherwise.

Is there anything you DO like ? Like the little old woman you are, you not only bitch and moan about not getting laid, er, I mean paid. You also find it necessary to gripe about Ximian's name.

Is there anything else in this universe we need to fix for you, princess ?

Re:Safe sex, wooha

[Graymalkin]

You could kill any offspring you may have and then shoot yourself in the face :D

Where will palm support be announced?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a palm pilot and can't wait to try synching it with evolution. I tried to compile evolution with palm support but got bogged down in the required libraries. Where will it be announced when palm sync is included in the snapshots/other binaries?

Re:Where will palm support be announced?

[luge]

Red Carpet, and evolution@ximian.com. Not sure about other locations- I'm sure it'll be some place on the web site but I don't know any details about where.

Award eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well hot damn, I'm going to CREATE the best bug EVER!
unless they mean REward.. then I guess I'll have to find one that's already there.

did anyone make a comparison with kde's apps ?

[loopkin]

could be interesting to test it as compared to KDE tools (KMail, KPilot, KOrganizer, ...).
I was amazed by kde 2.2 for this suite. synchronize ur agenda with the pilot, and ur address book as well... and afterwards u have autocompletion for email addresses in KMail... this is great piece of software (though there remain some "bugs", like a huge slowdown when opening large mails).
anyway, if anyone has a link to a comparison between GNOME/Evolution and KDE on that point, would be nice :-))

Re:Important? [One more word]

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's another word beginning with M

Magellan [kalliance.org]

Just my .02 --

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been running Windows XP for the last couple of weeks. It's amazingly fast and stable. The interface is clean and intuitive. And virtually bug-free! The integration between the latest Outlook and the desktop is quite simply brilliant. Truly an amazing Desktop OS, maybe the best yet.

SLASHDOT HAS MORE BUGS THAN A BUG ZOO

[robvasquez]

Let's find all the bugs in Slashdot's site first.

Is evolution GPL

[clarkie.mg]

Hi bugmaster

I see no mention on the ximian web site of the evolution license. Is it GPL ? Will it always be open source ? Thanks for the answer.

mg AT unixe DOT net

Re:Is evolution GPL

[Menthos]

Yes, Evolution is GPL. I really doubt that will ever change, since a lot of Evolution hackers are really committed to free software.

Why we care.

[kanayo]

"I'm sorry, but why do so many people here care about the business aspects of Ximian?"

How many companies make Free Software? Not too many. And even the few that do don't seem to be so prosperous. So when we see a company that contributes software AND (most importantly) Source Code to the community, why in the world would we want to see them go bankrupt? Failing to support these small companies that do great things is simply begging to see the large corporations continue to dominate all aspects of our lives. That's why we care.

I found one

[StikyPad]

My roommate is an evolutionary bug. There's just no other way to explain him.

Complexity is the factor...

[driehuis]

Sourceforge is, indeed, full of dead projects. But please note that many of those dead projects either contain no code at all, or code of the

int
rescue_the_world()
{
// TODO: figure out how to do this
}

variety. Code that does *nothing* at all.

It is at the stage where code does at least one task well that the wheat is seperated from the chaff (except that one means wheat is another mans chaff). Before I pour considerable time into something, I test the waters: I do some small enhancement and report it to the authors. If they don't acknowledge that, I consider the thing to be unmaintained. Rejection of the code is not of a great concern, it's being ignored that hurts.

I've had pretty good luck with a number of Open Source projects which involve no paid staff at all. Especially when compared with the support for some closed source offerings.

The commercial open source thing is still very new. People jump up and down about Mozilla's failure, about OpenOffice's failure, etcetera. Let's face it, those are huge projects, and the success rate for their commercial counterparts is equally abysmal. The big hindrance for community contributions is the extremely steep learning curve for the infrastructure surrounding huge projects, and combined with rapid change that curve becomes in unsurmountable mountain. Once a more or less successful 1.0 is out, that ought to change.

Unless I'm seriously mistaken, no huge commercial open source project has reached 1.0. Unless you count Linux, but that sort of underscores the point that contributions on any level have always been possible building on a stable base. You can rewrite, say, the IP stack or the VM system, but you can do that in relative isolation, despite the complexity of the task. API's are pretty well defined.

Most of the grand commercial open source projects are just too big, with too many internal couplings. Writing a spreadsheet app is one thing (and plenty of those abound without commercial support). But keeping the thing alive when someone else is dicking with text editor code that your subproject needs is another. The horrible thing is, they need to be huge, because they need to appeal to the mass market.

If I had my way, I'd had a simple mail client, a simple web browser, a simple spreadsheet, with the minimal glue between them to make it work for me, and allow me to replace a component I don't like with another.

So, I guess you're right. Not because great things don't happen without people who are paid for writing free code, but because the marketplace demands solutions that are just too complex to deal with in part time.

troll?

[nexex]

Troll? how is this a troll? What kind of drug is that moderator on? I agree with him, they need broader distro support, not just rpm based ones.