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No, Nexenta does not include any of the closed source binaries
http://www.gnusolaris.org/: "NexentaOS is completely open source and free of any charge.".

Here is the list of what is missing from OpenSolaris: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/no_source/. Missing is e.g. some device drivers, luckily some of them have OSS counterparts in the net (e.g. http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/).

However, the way Nexenta is built it can use binary only Solaris drivers - a very nice feature IMHO.

I was supposed to give those links in my previous post but somehow managed to screw up ... sorry.

In fact, if we take everything GNU except the kernel, and port it to Solaris or *BSD, or even Mac OS X, we generally still call it Solaris or *BSD or Mac OS X with a few GNU tools sprinkled in. We don't call it GNU/Solaris, just because someone installed glibc, gcc, etc.

If glibc is the only libc, and bash is the default shell, and ld is GNU ld, etc then people generally *have* called those things GNU/Solaris or whatever. Take a look at Nexenta OS for example.

Considering the sad state of the scheduler in Linux, I would recommend not to fork the kernel, but instead ABANDON THE LINUX KERNEL.

Really, it's not that good. And it's not that special. Just dump it and use Solaris instead.

In addition to being better technically, Solaris stands to become freer than Linux with the adoption by Sun of the GPL3.

In the meantime: http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki

By all means, show me this wondrous swappable kernel project in action.

I am with you. I am waiting for Nexenta to mature... http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki

Ask and ye shall receive.

Route 1: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/on/devref_toc/ devref_1/
Jump to chapter 1.3.3. Follow instructions.

Route 2: http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki
Follow instructions.

HTH. HAND.

Apart from being an official Sun project, how is this project different from NexentaOS? http://www.gnusolaris.org/ Any explanation is appreciated!

Nexenta OS: Ubuntu userland with OpenSolaris kernel. Has been in development since 2005 and it's quite usable already (especially as a server) if your hardware is supported. The latest beta allows you to boot straight into a ZFS root filesystem.

Nexenta OS: Ubuntu userland with OpenSolaris kernel. Has been in development since 2005 and it's quite usable already (especially as a server) if your hardware is supported. The latest beta allows you to boot straight into a ZFS root filesystem.

What you suggest exists: Nexenta - http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki

Indeed.

If Solaris is licensed under GPLv3, I'll be making the move to Nexenta as soon as it is stable enough to run on my system. Better yet would be if Debian co-opted it and created a GNU/OpenSolaris distro, much like their GNU/kFreeBSD variant.

Nexenta is already about as Linux-like as you can get. Hopefully they'll trade in their antique package manager for apt as well.

and all the functionality of Linux has jumped ahead of Solaris...

Just like all the functionality of Windows has jumped ahead of Linux? I'm not talking about Windows clean install, I mean a typical windows setup for a typical (non-power) user with all the very capable and user friendly and consistent looking userland tools and freeware sprawling all over the internet.

I'm not being an MS fanboy and I'm writing this off Ubuntu 7.04 but the point I'm trying to make is, Linux "functionality" isn't miles ahead of everyone else. Also from my own experience of working on the systems side of things, Solaris is a very powerful, stable and rock solid system under the hood with YEARS of "beta testing" by some of the most demanding customers on Wall Street. You can't dismiss all that just because vim or X-windows comes out of the box on a Linux system.

I for one am eagerly awaiting Nexenta

BrandZ isn't for Linux... it is Linux, running in a Solaris Zone.

If you want a GNU-like system for Solaris, try out Nexenta

ZFS? DTrace? Zones?

Get Nexenta - basically Ubuntu running a Solaris kernel. /home is ZFS by default - not sure if each homedir is a filesystem or not.

I can second that! The last update of GNU/Solaris was Alpha 6 on 17 October 2006. I am still battling to get this version to work properly.

There's Nexenta, which is basically Debian on the OpenSolaris kernel. But you're right, it would be nice to have a completely unencumbered Solaris.

Ahem.

http://www.gnusolaris.org/

Of course, my views are my own and are not representative of any employer.

Nexenta may be of interest to you, then.

I really hope Sun takes advantage of the work Nexenta has done. It's Ubuntu on OpenSolaris. Hopefully Ian will do something very similar with Solaris.

There already is one. It's called Nexenta and it's a melding of Solaris with the Ubuntu userland. They have a LiveCD you can try out and everything. Worked pretty nicely when I tried it back in September.

Nexenta.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Servlet and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User-mode_Linux and http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki just to name a few- as far as "pure" java goes (it's a pain in the ass to read) their are other's that aren't: http://processing.org/ for one

Here.

Debian derivative. Uses Solaris as it's kernel.

What was wrong with Solaris? Besides the weird userland tools -- eg, not GNU.

Check out http://www.gnusolaris.org/ , a GNU/Solaris aimed at addressing those who would like a GNU userland.

Actually, I'd really like if Dell supported an OpenSolaris option as well -- it's a fine piece of work.

> And that's one symptom that indicates his views will never
> become a consensus in the Linux community.
> This mania of prepending "GNU/" on the Linux name is considered
> obnoxious by a majority of the people who use and contribute to Linux.

Speak for yourself. I do contribute, and like to call things as they are.
*Flash* Big news for you: there are systems almost identical to
GNU/Linux which do not happen to include Linux!

See http://www.gnusolaris.org/ http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/
and get a clue.

> You know one of the easiest ways to make life simpler
> for people new to GNU/Linux?
> Just calling it fucking *Linux* rather than being pedantic.

You say pedantic, I say correct.
Most Free operating systems are different in that they are less monolithic,
and more a sum of parts.

What will you say the Nexenta distro is/will be, for example?

http://www.gnusolaris.org/

It is very similar to Ubuntu GNU/Linux, but guess what? No Linux there.
It is Nexenta GNU/Solaris.
As I see it, the name most suitable for the 'masses' is the name of the distribution.

> So please Gnome people start behaving, be humble,
> accept the patches and do not upset Linus, we really need him,

Not really: http://www.gnusolaris.org/

perhaps RMS will get behind the Nexenta/gnu-solaris project. Maybe someone in the know can explain (to me and others) whether this would meet the needs of a GNU operating system.
Nexenta says so on http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/FAQ, but I wouldn't bet on it. Though, the very moment SunOS / better: OpenSolaris gets GPLv3 instead / on top of CDDL, I do bet both him and Eben will put their weight (sorry - no pun intended) behind this combination.

Debian won't officially endorse the project due to resistance to the CDDL license. The Nexenta FAQ explains the issue; licensing solaris under GPL3 gain acceptance.

Debian won't officially endorse the project due to resistance to the CDDL license. The Nexenta FAQ explains the issue; licensing solaris under GPL3 gain acceptance.

Well, if Linux insists on staying at GPv2, then perhaps RMS will get behind the Nexenta/gnu-solaris project. Maybe someone in the know can explain (to me and others) whether this would meet the needs of a GNU operating system. While I am a *BSD user, I'd love to see a Linux-free GNU system take off. If for no other reason, Torvalds increasingly seems like an obstinate teenager. And to be snotty about, his kernel certainly does. I'll slip into my asbestos suit, so let it fly....

This will change things drastically. Solaris is a mature OS with some unique tools that could really benefit Free Software: DTrace, ZFS, etc. GPL licensed OS's would really benefit from this stuff. DTrace and ZFS will be included in Mac OS 10.5. But up until now they have been licensed under Sun's CDDL which is incompatible with the GPL.

If Linus ceases to be bull-headed and moves the kernel to GPLv3. The Sun move will be great, Gnu/Linux will be able to integrate these new tools. Sun will be able to use and improve GPL licensed tools more easily. Everyone wins. Except proprietary software developers and MS in particular.

What if Linus continues to be an ass and refuses to license the kernel under GPLv3? Free software developers who do not want their work to be used in DRM or hardware that locks the user out of their software will move towards Gnu/Solaris! The Samba team, Alan Cox, all the GNU projects could all shift focus to Solaris as the default kernel. There is already a Debian-based Gnu/Solaris and this could become the main focus of Debian work. Would Ubuntu Gnu/Solaris be far behind?

If the second case happens Linus could continue with GPLv2 only for the kernel and see the importance of Linux diminish or he could give in and license it under "GPLv2 or later" and contain the hemorrhage.

Interesting, interesting.

If you like Solaris and Ubuntu, then maybe you should try Nexenta; it's a Debian/Ubuntu-based system running atop OpenSolaris. You get a system that looks and feels a lot like Ubuntu, but has an OpenSolaris kernel, complete with ZFS, DTrace, Zones, etc.

If you are actually interested and not trolling, I'd suggest you join the other 18,000 or so people over on OpenSolaris.org where the source code used to build Solaris is available under a Free license. You'll find a number of other OS distributions based on the same code - the most interesting is probably NextentaOS, which is essentially Debian with the kernel switched.

GNU/Solaris especially if, as rumored, Sun put Solaris under the GPL

FUCK DEBIAN, FUCK GENTOO, FUCK UBUNTU! Remove that crappy shit out of your computer today! We have a clear winner here now, a TRUE Unix kernel - Solaris 11 kernel with state of the art GNU software and apt-get tools to install it. It's been such a fucking pleasure to use Solaris that I've almost forgotten how crappy piece of shit Linux kernel is! Try Nexenta today! You will not lose anything, it's completely free! Try and see how fucking much better it is compared to any Linux or BSD shit you've ever tried. Solaris is here today! Stable, beautiful OS, TRUE UNIX! Get Nexenta HERE NOW!

They would definitely abandon Europe sales to save the company.

Linux threatens the company, now very seriously.

All Linux and Mac desktops released in the past 6 months already exceed Vista in usability for the common user.

Office 2007 does not run on anything but windows.

If Vista is unable to get at least 80% of desktop OS market share, Microsoft will have lost advantage of ubiquity, where an inferior product is adopted because everybody else has adopted it, and it would be more painful to adopt a superior solution. If 1 in 5 person out there does not use Microsoft Vista (resultantly Office), an average user would not gravitate toward Microsoft+Office as a safe albeit more expensive choice. Rather, the average user would see Ubuntu and alikes as a good alternative, and would demand such from their vendors.

As an example of market forces driving change, Dell now ships computers with AMD processors.

Now, the Microsoft strategy, as I see it, is to create enough anguish in the marketplace (in corporations to be honest) by implying possible threat, so that customers mill purchase Vista to be on the safe side.

The problem with that strategy is that a lot of companies are still on Windows 2000 pro and are seeing a surge in migration of unofficial IT desktops to Linux and Mac because developers today are generally fed up with 2000 and are jaded about Vista.
Microsoft expects management at those companies to mandate safety and get rid of the Linux systems once Vista is out there. The problem, and Microsoft has not yet seen it, and will not see it even after it's killed their company, is that management in today's IT is made up of post-1970 geeks, which means the remnants of the mainframe management has now completely retired (in the past 10 years).
Also, a lot more heavy hitters are playing nice with Linux (HP, IBM, Sun (especially with Ubuntu and Shuttleworth in particular) and Oracle). These vendors have a lot of pull in dynamic organizations, especially because of the recent SOA mega trend, and these vendors have no love for Microsoft.

My assessment is that there will be a softening of PC sales after the release of Vista and that a few vendors will start selling a lot of Ubuntu-loaded corporate desktops (Lenovo, HP) and then Dell will see their stock take another tumble, and they will scramble to sell a Ubuntu-ready PC by fall 2007.

Microsoft meanwhile, oblivious to all, will continue touting software-as-a-service in Google's footsteps, not realizing until much too late that Google makes money not from the users of the software but from advertisers who get dream-come-true-accurate lifestyle marketing profiles on users of Google applications.

They will continue selling Office and Vista licenses to corporations (who may or may not use them) and will not notice for a while that hardware vendors will have pushed hardware component manufacturers to make their hardware really play nice with Linux (internal components, but also printers, scanners, etc) and then maybe, just maybe, some systems that work on Linux will not work on windows, and the Chinese manufacturer of some component that get put in Lenovo laptops will just not write a windows driver, and slowly but surely fewer and fewer new models will work with Vista. We're talking mid 2008 here, with quad-cores and gru-on-cpu level machines.

Then Microsoft will be where it was in 1993: trying to convince hardware manufacturers.

This is why it is good that OpenSolaris is out there mingling in the Linux world (see nexenta) to give it some healthy competition.

It's also good that Java is GPLv2, to help with the adoption of of Java applications on Ubuntu desktops -- personal note: eclipse 3.2 works beautifully there.

In any case, from the above you can see that Microsoft has a major problem. I don't think Ray Ozzie can reinvent the company fast enough, especially with Steve Ballmer

> my Solaris box is nicer than any Linux machine I've used (although
> I really don't like the Solaris userland)

Then you should really give Nexenta a shot. Some debian folks have legitimate trouble with the licensing (mixing GPL software with CDDL libc). However, barring this niggling issue I think the Nexenta team has done an amazing job. I've tried it out myself. dtrace and zones work, so you should be at home.

Yeah, I've been playing with Nexenta and was pretty impressed by the layout (and ZFS of course), but had a rough time figuring out what hardware was detected, how drivers are loaded, and so on.

As for the Linux distros, I had to start thinking about them as branches in a family tree, rather than as one OS. There is the Debian lineage, the RedHat/Fedora lineage, the Gentoo lineage, ....

Debian GNU/OpenSolaris. (cf. Nexenta at http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki and Debian's non-Linux ports at http://www.debian.org/ports/#nonlinux)

Imagine what it will feel like when you have hassle free OS - a true UNIX running on your computer! You can have it in 1 hour!

Get it here now.

Even if you installed those GNU tools into your Windows system, the Windows kernel wouldn't be using those instead of the core tools Microsoft are shipping. They'd be installed, but not be required to run your OS. Is it that hard to understand? Linux ain't usable without any decent core utilities to work with.

Your arguments are in my opinion void. The BSD systems are mostly using BSD utilities, and Debian's GNU-running systems do credit the GNU project. I assume Solaris uses the BSD utilities as well, being BSD-derivative. Nexenta, a GNU/OpenSolaris system, does give credit. No Windows system uses the GNU utilities in its core system. Mac OS X is a name for the complete operating system, not the kernel, just like Debian or Ubuntu are.

You have missed the reason why Stallman wants people to refer to the operating system as GNU/Linux.

While trying to install Nexenta GNU/OpenSolaris the installation kept failing for random reasons. The installer includes a console version of Tetris you can play while the software installs, I found out that playing it kept the installer from failing. That's what I call Computer Voodoo.

There are a variety of very good Open Solaris distros now:

Belenix: http://belenix.sarovar.org/belenix_download.html/

Polaris, Solaris for PowerPC: http://www.blastware.org/

Nexenta, the Solaris/Ubuntu mix: http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/Nexenta_OS/

And of course you can go straight to the official Open Solaris Communities page here: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/communities/;jsessio nid=6E46815A1C5CC33AC6470A9439DABAA6#all/

Fight IBM FUD with Open Solaris Fact.