Slashdot Mirror
Sun to Make Solaris More Linux Like
ramboando writes "In an effort to spur adoption of Solaris, Sun Microsystems has begun a project code-named Indiana to try to give its operating system some of Linux's success.
Sun has been trying for years to restore the luster of Solaris, but that since has faced a strong challenge chiefly from Linux. Sun wants to embrace some Linux elements so "we make Solaris a better Linux than Linux," said Ian Murdock, Sun's chief operating systems officer, quoting Netscape co-founder Marc Andreessen, whose latest start-up, Ning, uses Solaris.
But it's a tricky balance to adopt elements of Linux while preserving Solaris technology and advantages such as the promise of backward compatibility. "As we make Solaris more familiar to Linux users, we don't [want to] lose what makes it more compelling and competitive.""
Not to say that some of the Solaris tools couldn't use a good sprucing up with newer and fresher versions, but I tend to get nervous whenever Sun codenames something. It usually means that they're about to start on something that isn't a bad idea per se, but will be guaranteed to be aborted prior to any real commitment or follow-through. What state that will leave Solaris in is anyone's guess.
*shudder* I still remember Mad Hatter. Such promise. Such failure to follow up,
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I've liked many aspects of Solaris for a long time, but the #1 thing that turns me off it is the userland tools.
Yes, I know they ship a DVD with lots of GNU tools, but the fact that the built-in make, vi, grep, etc. are still basically unmodified from the early 1990s (if not longer) is not, to me, a feature. Those hoary old versions should be the ones on a supplementary DVD for those who need perfect backward compatibility with 15-year-old shell scripts and so forth.
It sounds like that's a focus of this project, so I say fabulous. If I can get ZFS and DTrace plus a modern toolset out of the box, Solaris will start to look much more attractive.
...they should name the project Purdue instead. =)
Or you could just run Linux on Sun hardware?
Sun is hemmoraging cash. Their hardware is fairly standard (in an enterprise way) and all the functionality of Linux has jumped ahead of Solaris... So what do they have to offer? Nothing. I can't see what they can do in this regard to gain back market share. making a "better linux" than Linux is not it.
There are probably other paths that they can take that would be more effective than this one. But I don't know what they are.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
The only reason I might change is if Solaris was made open source (and free). Thats the reason Linux is superior. Better support, design etc. flows from that.
Sun is a for-profit entity. How do they expect to make money off of their OS? They should GPL Solaris, let the code monkeys snatch the best bits for Linux, and forget about wasting their money developing Solaris. They can write a "shim layer" on Linux for people needing backward compatibility so they don't alienate long-time customers. They need to figure out where they plan on making money, and scrap the parts that lose money. Open sourcing Java was an indication of desperation; we saw plenty of companies open source their product during the dot-com bust, either because they didn't want their work to die, or because they thought it would magically boost market share and generate revenue. It doesn't.
What the hell are they talking about "...promise of backward compatibility."? I guess it depends on how you define backward compatibility... but I manage about 1500 SUN servers, from old Sparcstations to enterprise class servers, and they are about as backward compatible as putting a stone wheel on your Honda. Sure, it might fit, but you sure as hell don't want to drive anywhere with it.
Most of my users on various boxes are afraid to even apply Sun patches because it breaks applications left and right. Granted, we are development segment of my company, but still... the Solaris operating system is barely backward compatible within it's own major release, much less between versions. Simple tools will run just fine, of course, but the more complex the application, the less likely it is to run between major versions, and likely going to cause some sort of havoc between minor revisions within the same version. I see it happen daily.
They really don't need to worry about their "backward compatibility," when trying to make Solaris more Linux like... I'm glad they are doing this - I absolutely hate administrating a stock Solaris system. It feels so archaic and like something straight out of the late 80's or early 90's, back when I was logging into the beasts on my 300 baud modem. The only worse offender in this area is HP-UX... though I will admit that with Solaris 10 and HP-UX 11 there have been some minor inroads into the monolithic, archaic feel to both OS's, but they both have a very, very, very long way to go.
Just to clarify - I understand why those OS's are that way, but it doesn't mean I like it nor want to use them. If they can retain the stability of Solaris and make it more comfortable to use, I'm all for it.
...is like making caviar more vegemite-like.
They can start by shipping my solaris cd like Ubuntu did.
Yeah, and OS/2 was a better Windows than Windows. Anyone remember how that worked out?
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
shipping me those solaris disks they said they ship for free. I really wanted to try it without sitting here downloading the stuff myself on this poor connection..
m10
I'm currently struggling to implement a Solaris server right now. The user space is archaic, obscure, and seems to be difficult for the sake of being difficult. Things like updates are still done the way they were done 15 years ago, often requiring a drop to single user mode (as bad as a reboot in my opinion), and often require a system reconfigure. Solaris' kernel is cutting edge and, in some ways, way ahead of Linux. But in the ways that count, Solaris lags far behind.
/usr/bin, usr/local/bin, /opt/sfw/bin, /usr/sfw/bin, /usr/ucp, etc. I frequently find that I have to compile things from source just to get basic functionality. For example, Sun ships Samba with solaris, but it doesn't support LDAP. They also ship some hacked kerberos libraries, based on MIT, but if you need to build anything that depends on kerberos, you have to compile and install a separate set of MIT Kerberos libraries. Some apps are available in package form (solaris packages) from sunfreeware.com that you can pkgadd. But PKGs don't seem to be a complete packaging system like deb or rpm is. The pkg-get utility from the aforementioned site is very useful, though.
Just to make the system usable requires a ton of third-party software that sun does not ship nor support. In the end my path has nearly half a dozen bin folders in it, by the time you could
The init system is currently in a disorganized state. Most things are migrating to svcadm, which under the hood is very much like launchd. But there are still init.d scripts, but they don't always work right. Maybe Linux should move away from init.d, but at least on redhat, they are very full-featured and quite easy to work with.
Sun's biggest strengths right now are zones, zfs, and dtrace. However, if you don't specifically need these features, Linux is a better choice in many circumstances. And Linux is gaining features in these areas. xen can do a lot of what zones do, albeit much less efficiently. dtrace functionality is coming, I hear. ZFS, well the kernel developers seem to be suffering a bad case of NIH syndrome. The only reason I'm using solaris right now is ZFS. But I'm taking a big risk deploying it on a 12 TB disk. I have yet to hear of a failure, and Sun assures me that it's enterprise-ready. Sun's assurances do carry a lot of weight; they've had a lot of experience in these things. But I'm only a silver-level support customer. It's taken two weeks and some 20 phone calls to get issues sorted out with our sunsolve account and updatemanager. Our assigned support group only wants to talk over e-mail, which is annoying. Turnaround time on trying out their suggestions is hours if not days. This certainly isn't quite the same Sun as in the olden days.
Anyway, talk to any Sun jocky and he'll tell you that none of my complaints about Solaris are weaknesses. They are strengths. Cryptic commands are second nature. Besides, they separate the real sysadmins from the wannabes. Sound familiar? I think I've talked the same way about Linux to my Windows friends. I'm glad that Ian is going to work to improve Solaris' user space (which is what he means when he says make Solaris more like Linux, right?). On the other hand, Solaris reminds me not to get complacent with the state of linux. Every complaint I have about Solaris could easily be echoed by a Windows refugee trying to make sense of Linux. Both Linux and Solaris are powerful, cryptic, and archaic OSes. They both have a lot of room for improvement. We'll have to see. I told my RedHat friend the other day that his company has nothing to worry about from Solaris. Hopefully Ian will change that.
But what exactly makes Solaris worth using to begin with? What open source or commercial software makes it worth having? What makes it more than just a fringe system? Linux is finally approaching the point where it stands a chance at competing against Windows in the consumer market, does it really need competition from a fairly mainstream corporation?
For that matter, sure, the machines look cool on the outside, but why do so many people consider them worth buying (even models up to 10 years old) today, and for that matter, what makes them worth switching over to? Is it sheer geek chic, or do they actually provide some form of useful function, as opposed to Windows/Mac/Linux's growing trend towards multipurpose multimedia machines?
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
How many years has it been since "csh considered harmful" was published? There is simply no excuse for its continued use as a default shell--bash is the current best practice that newbies should be steered toward.
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
I am now reading the book Rebel Code and it is interesting to notice that exactly this was suggested years ago. If the heads at Sun listened to the "sourceware" suggestion back then, they could have been miles ahead by now...
Need an ISP in South Africa?
Anyone who has managed very high load webservers already knows that solaris has significant advantages. a much better effort would be a grass-roots effort to educate the Linux community of why 10+ years of professional development lead to significant performance benefits on multi-core, multi-processor systems.
Solaris serves a niche in the market that is growing like crazy now, and most web developers who are building apps today should look into it seriously, IMHO.
Are they making CDE less butt-ugly?
Bears don't normally eat things that talk and move backwards.
Let's see here; Sun wants to make their proprietary operating system more like the one that's given away for free. I may be a little dense, but I don't see a valid business model here...
I m seeing so many news stories from Sun in past few days... JavaFx, JDK source code, Sun "iPhone", and now this "Linuxolaris"? Is this some sort of media manipulation game? for example, in 2005s every other day you heard about Big G releasing a new fancy toys..
that's all we want... the current list of supported x86 hardware is ridiculously small... oh and put some effort into Gnu/Solaris... that project has effectively stagnated for ages now and nothing appears to be happening...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
They can start by making the man pages suck.
Ning by the way is yet another piece of do-nothing get-a-life-ware...
Rational decision aimed at grabbing the loot, even if a disingenuous marketing strategy... linux is reaching full buzzword status. Not only will it help Dell sell more computers, but apparently, its going to help sell competing operating systems. But they've seem to miss the point... its ubiquitous because its free, not because its trendy.
The Admin and the Engineer
I've been using sunos and Solaris and sun hardware since '86. I can build a very security solaris 9 server that ends up with about 5 packages and a few things from a few other packages so it results in a nice simple stripped down system that is just enough to run the application and its great for systems that live in data centers.
Then sun comes along with Solaris 10 and adds in a ton of complexity with out providing any additional services. The new things like zones and zfs don't need all the new extra crud but its nearly impossible to build a lean system with solaris 10. There are also a number of issues that are just plain wrong and reeks of security the Microsoft way. Why does live update look inside zones? If its in a zone, its not to be trusted outside the zone. Thats covered in Security layers 101 so back to school guys. (you can purge one file inside a zone that breaks doing patches in the global zone). The new admin tools remove the rc scripts... except that most of them are just moved and hidden by layers of config files. Then it uses a binary file to figure out what to run at shutdown, and it keeps changing the file when servers start and stop and you can't get an accurate picture of the data its going to use when it shuts down the system. Since the file is a binary file, you can't checksum it and you can't dump it so you've got no clue if someone has put a Trojan in it. The data in the file could have just gone in a nice plane text file but I guess the coders missed the Windows registry too much. The appear to be handing the keys to the source castle to any old hack. Someone "fixed" telnetd and added a new feature in one of the worst security lapses I've seen in a long time.
I just bought 3 new netra 210 because 1) they run SPACR Solaris 9, 2) they fit in my racks and 3) are one RU. I'll stop buying Sun hardware the day I can't run Solaris 9 because there is no way I'm putting Sol 10 on a production machine.
Nexenta seems to be doing things the right way for Solaris to proceed as a viable operating system. A debian-like package system and a choice of easy installable GUIs, but still without the hardware support that linux has,
I am also curious about Solaris's desire to go GPL. If that ever happened, Solaris will most likely be cannibalized into Linux - and Solaris will die a slow death. Even as we speak, the most valuable assets for Solaris (Dtrace and ZFS) are being usurped by FreeBSD (thanks to a more permissive BSD license) - which means that some people may choose it over Solaris.
Sun really has to work hard to sell us on the benefits of Solaris, and why we would choose it over other things available at the moment.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Solaris is dead. Thank your mother and get over with it.
A better Linux than free Linux is a Linux they actually pay you to use. Are you listening, Sun?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
1. Switch Solaris to FreeBSD ...
2. Linux Compatibility
3.
4. Profit!!!
FreeBSD current has ZFS and DTrace now! Why wait? Run, don't walk, to your nearest FreeBSD dealer ( ftp.freebsd.org ). Let's face it, Sun just hasn't been the same since AT&T strong-armed them away from BSD into the void of System V.
Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary. May cause increased bandwidth charges. Offer not valid in Lichtenstein on odd days of even months during leap years.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
They want to make it more Linux-like? Just relicense the whole thing under GPL. Then sit back as the kernelgeeks merge the two, taking the best bits of both and creating an OS which is both Linux and Solaris, and better than either.
The more they make Solaris like Linux, the easier it will be for people to move off Solaris onto Linux as the environment fill be more familiar and the skills barrier lower. So Sun are taking a bit of a gamble.
for god sake,
just make the default shell bash! ( a recent one would be bonus points )
As some have said the last couple of years.
Solaris will just be another Linux distribution...
Unless I'm mistaken; Virtuozzo which is based on OpenVZ gives you the same functionality on Linux as Zones.
apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade
G++
"As we make Solaris more familiar to Linux users, we don't [want to] lose what makes it more compelling and competitive."
If Solaris was compelling and competitive, they wouldn't be trying to make it more like Linux.
Solaris is something that we use as a legacy OS where I work. We have well over 700 Linux systems in the school of engineering. At last count we had maybe 35 systems running Solaris still lingering here and there in places where they either cannot be replaced or there is no economy in doing so. There has not been a NEW installation of Solaris deployed in at least two years. We've also got five Tru64 systems, two HP-UX systems, three Irix systems, and I think 4 VMS systems that a dedicated die-hard won't allow to expire.
The bottom line is that the unix wars are over, Linux has won, and whatever contender eventually does take the crown from it will NOT be one of the has-eens of the past.
I'm long past caring what Sun does or does not do with Solaris for the same reason that I don't care what E-com does with OS/2. Both OS's may or may not be configured with fancy new features in the future, but it doesn't matter because they've already lost.
Game over dude, and no you don't get your quarter back.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
3 think gpl 3. If sun goes for 3 for everything-we'll see a huge surge of interest. It won't take all of the linux devs-not by a longshot, but *thousands* will switch.
Licenses *do* matter. Code is important, but the whole idea of FOSS is based on licenses, what they say and what they do.
The thing is, there are hundreds of different GNU/Linux distributions. Solaris isn't competing against Linux, nor against GNU. It is copeting against Debian, Gentoo, Redhat, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Slackware, Suse ... etc What does "making it more Linux like" even mean? Will it be more like Gentoo? More like Debian? Unless they are actually talking about the kernel I really don't see what they are planing to do, and if they are then you may consider that Debian is being ported to FreeBSD, NetBSD and GNU Hurd. This sounds more like marketing than actual policy to me.
I'll prolly get flamed but I guess we're talking about servers here cause I don't think I would use with Solaris or Linux as a desktop/workstation because Windows and too a less extent Mac's are some much more accessible at the moment - I will say though it's a pain to have to deal with all the problems that come with Windows - but less of a pain than not having all the nice GUI applications that I am used to.
I'm not so fussed Solairs becomes more Linux like - the tools are fine and as mentioned above you can use gnu tools without too much trouble if you prefer. How did you learn them on Linux, man pages - how do you learn the different tools on Solaris - well it's pretty much the same thing.
I guess the biggest similarity is the desktop because both Linux and Solaris do not have desktops built in you can install your favorite one - no problem at all.
There is nothing to much wrong with Solaris as it is - Sun have done a great job with the OS and having it around has benefited everyone. If they want to make it more of the same as Linux then fine but at the end of the day I am quite happy with using either Solaris or Linux - it's not much effort to switch between them.
When is Linux going to become more Solaris like - I know zones are not there yet but I am sure they would be useful in the Linux world. I don't think either OS should really be knocked as they are both available for free and all it takes is a little time and effort to get familiar with them - keeps your mind open. I'm not sure but isn't this a similar situation between Windows and Mac's variety is the spice of life?
Anyways - Solaris is a great free offering - long live Solaris
Uh... so they're making Solaris GPL, to be able to use Linux code :-) how cool!
See Non Sequitur by Wiley Miller starting April 16, 2007...
...and I told them to adopt the standard linux filesystem, you know, the one implemented by GoboLinux.
I look forward to seeing the results.
In short Sun is feeling the competition from the Open Source Linux. And Jeff's blog entry shows that pretty well
I don't know much about Sun but certainly they are not very happy with the way Linux is eating up Sun's share of servers.
At this juncture such an announcement does not come to me as a surprise.
~psr
-- "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - TAE --
At any rate, it's a very awkwardly constructed and confusing sentence, and if I was some kind of grammar Nazi, I'd fucking parse the author's ass.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
... we named the dog Indiana.
I have recently been engaged in a serious effort to learn about Solaris 10, and have been very pleasantly surprised at what I have found...
...In fact, I am right now thinking that Solaris offers a lot of technologies that Linux can't touch ...
Could you point out some of them? I used to use Solaris a lot, a long time ago, but that was never as a system administrator. It was rather good then, but over the last 7 years I've moved to linux, OS X and OpenBSD. Last time I used Solaris for work was in 2003. What's better with Solaris these days?
dtrace, if I (mis-)understand correctly, is mainly useful for kernel work and is available on other platforms. What other uses might there be, if any?
zfs seems to have some kind of RAID capabilities, but last I heard can't be used as the root file system.
zones seem intriguing, but a cursory examination does make it stand out over other virtualization / paravirtualization methods.
If Ian Murdock is able to get Sun to adopt apt, that would bring me and a lot of others in again. If they can make the install as easy as Debian or Ubuntu, then that will pull in a lot of the curious: as of a few weeks ago the installation process required a serious time commitment and patience.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
It has been said before, so this is kind of a me2 message.
I have seen solaris boxes being responsive to ssh login with an load of #proc * 20 in top.
This is worth every penny, especially if it is a productive webserver.
Using a different OS in your access layer as reverse proxy is great and makes you sleep
a bit better at night.
Not to speak of dtrace, zfs and the other nifty stuff, which I personally do not use, but
I know it's there in case I need to fly in an engineer to help me out.
But userland solaris is really annoying. I want to to feel like a standard unix
box and a standard unix box these days is a gnu/linux box and "gtar" and "ggrep" do
not feel standard. Solaris tools break my scripts and make me cry out loud for
decent debian box.
Solaris kernel rocks, solaris environment is poor.
In reality, I remember Solaris as a backwards compatibility nightmare, like the Solaris 1 -> Solaris 2 transition, OpenView, and NeWS. And there's a simple reason why Solaris is such a pain: Sun engineers apparently can't leave "good enough" alone and need to "innovate", create "advantages", and add "technology". The latest, ZFS, is going to cause a heap of pain for people and tools.
So, here's a simple suggestion for Sun how to make Solaris more Linux-like: stop adding crap and start deleting code.
Is selling us the * FASTEST * damned hardware in existence. I mean, really cool innovative stuff, orders of magnitude faster than the commodity stuff that Linux runs on. Their research teams should be working on stuff like reconfigurable computing and replacing disks with something faster.
But they are not there, so there's no particular reason to use Sun hardware or Solaris. People only make a choice about which Operating System to use when there are no other compelling reasons to choose product X over product Y. Actually by Opening Solaris up they've pretty much admitted that there's no real reason to choose it or any of their products over Linux. If there was, they'd be damned sure to keep the algorithms secret.
Deleted
I want solaris to be different from linux!!
I want it to take a learning curve for people to transition to it!!
How else am I going to continue justifying an obscene daily rate for having solaris 8&9 skills in bank if any monkey thats run linux for a bit has the same skills?
Supply and demand is why the average solaris admin can get double what a linux or windows admin can
I for one do not want this to change!!!
$_="Slashdotter";$syn="OTT";s;..;;;sub _{print shift||$_};s!ash!Perl !;s=$syn=ack=i;tr+LLEd+BLAH+;_"Just Another ";_
Jeez, tfa is talking almost exclusively about the GNU/Whatever Free userland stuff. It's not about redesigning the solaris *kernel* which is what *Linux* is, remember?
/etc/modprobe.d and /sys/*. And Solaris *has* a great interface for that stuff. Yes, it's different, but I'm quite sure it's in the part they'll keep in order to differantiate themselves.
Ok, I know people can't remember more than one brand which has to do with the GPL, and it's long since been determined that they'll remember Linux, not GNU. But *come on*?! Csh != Linux, everyone should be able to see that! Gnu ls != Linux etc.
Ok, they *are* talking about stealing, err, sharing driver code and that has to do with Linux. But even users that reguarily compile their own kernel hardly ever touches anything Linux-specific, with the execption of
Caseih" is correct when he says "This certainly isn't quite the same Sun as in the olden days", in regard to support and how it is delivered. It certainly isn't the same Sun for those of us who are tasked with delivering support. Management has implemented all sorts of programs to improve customer "sat" and bring down call hold times, programs that INTERFERE with the day to day support work; effective and seasoned TSEs are bailing out right and left and ARE NOT BEING REPLACED in many cases; the EDS "partners" have a large turnover rate (what do you want for $9 an hour?); more time on the phone taking live calls, meaning the TSE have less (or no) time to do followups, research, spend time in the lab . .
The "Dell-ization" of tech support is spreading like a virus; support is a commodity now. Even enterprise level tech support. Sold to the lowest bidder. Who cares if the person on the phone can't spell "LDAP", as long as the call is picked up in X minutes and keeps the manager's pager from going off? THAT is where Sun support is today.
8 bit color with no obvious way to change it is stupid. That appears to be a fault with CDE in general though.
I've got nothing against Solaris, but I am sad that I'm fighting the same stupid UI issues today that I did 10 years ago.
how they will make 500 different Solaris distros.
But I really cannot think of any reason why I would install Solaris instead of Linux on any x86-based hardware that I use for normal day-to-day work. Not only do I know Linux much better than Solaris, but the range of Linux hardware support is much greater. And dare I admit it but whilst I can work in and script on the Korn shell, I've been spoilt by BASH which comes as default on Linux.
Sun have a great OS in Solaris for running on their own hardware platforms and the combination can't be beaten for medium- to high-end servers in Internet, database and corporate environments. But it's a niche operating system now and has no need to copy Linux.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Other than another Linux [like] distro is work towards an f'ing standard. We kinda have a standard in terms of glibc and most user space libraries like pthreads. But what about things like run level editors, placement of configuration files, etc.
...].
More than just yet another distro [well in this case a new OS] what I think the *nix world could use is some standardization. Personally I like the rc-update scheme from Gentoo as it's fairly simple to use and should be portable to other OSes. In the grand scheme of things the Linux kernel seems to be doing ok given the variety of platforms it must support. Though it still has odds and ends it needs to keep up [like how USB support on some AMD based boxes died mid 2.6.x stream
That said, the "better Linux than Linux" solaris distro would have to have a glibc compatible layer, and all the usual suspects [pthreads, X11, GTK, motif, etc...] to be useful as an OSS replacement OS. Otherwise, you're no better off.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
SUN, you thought that by hiring Ian Murdock open source people would jump Sun bandwagon. Not going to happen! You are going down and it doesn't matter how many well-known OSS figures you hire. In the end you exist only to make profit so MONEY IS THE ONLY MOTIVATION THAT DRIVES YOU - nothing else.
If SUN could use pkg-get to bring the ease of apt-get to Solaris, lots of people would dance with joy. This would mean official repositories and better dependency management. Also, the Solaris serial-console text install routine does not seem to have the same level of granularity in package selection as the X-win install (especially on the companion CD). It would be nice if the install had a few ready special-purpose recipes a-la Debian tasksel. (Yes, I know about jumpstart/flash installs, but I only want to install one or two boxes and that's not worth setting up a jumpstart config, so it would be nice if the install CD prompted for package selection).
/dev/dsk/c0t6d0s2 /cdrom" to mount a freaking cdrom and I shouldn't have to fiddle with vfstab or create my own little shell script alias for that. I should be able to just type "mount /cdrom" on a default install and have it work. It is those little types of polish that would make solaris a lot more usable.
Now about perl. On Solaris it is compiled with SUN's compiler and make instead of gcc and gmake. That is not unexpected. But this causes lots of cpan packages to fail. Maybe that is cpan's fault for allowing gmake and gcc specific packages, but the result is that perl and cpan are seriously borked on Solaris. There is a perlgcc hack which works sometimes, but not all the time. I'm not sure what the fix is for that, but it is a serious PITA when you just want to grab a cpan pkg and get on with life.
Oh yeah, I shouldn't have to type "mount -F hsfs -o ro
I think SUN could probably do all the above without breaking the solaris kernel.
I don't know about zsh, where I work root's default is always ksh.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
(Quote from Samuel Clemens)
I lived through the dot-bombs; I remember very clearly hearing, "We're going to make our product, a better brand X, than Brand X."
Ya might want to adjust your strategic portfolios accordingly. Any time someone has an idea that's trying to be someone elses, it obviates the concept that they're not a new idea, and that they have shortcomings. No matter how many 'power meetings' and 'paradigm shifts' they go through, the miming partner hits the skids.
I'm not anti-Sun; they've provided great hardware for a long time. I'm no particular fan of proprietary OSs, but Solaris and company could have sucked more. I just wish they'd pay more attention to their business (i.e. customers) and less time trying to run it like they were told in business school.
Anyone remember them paying Kodak $90M without a fight? I wonder if their soul is gone for good, this time?
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
Well, I'm typing this from a Sun SPARC laptop, and the wireless drivers are there, as well as a gui from Tadpole for configuring/diagnosing them. They were available somewhere in the Solaris 9 lifetime.
For cards where there are only or primarily proprietary drivers, Solaris is actually a pretty good bet, as Sun made the effort to go out and buy them and make them available on both SPARC and x86. Breifly, there were more Solaris wireless drivers than Linux, but Linux and the BSDs have since mostly caught up (;-))
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
It surprises me how many people in /. talk about Sun that clearly have not worked with their wares for any considerable amount of time if at all.
Solaris has been free for several years now, and before that a nominal charge was levied when you bought Sun servers.
In many ocassions we got new machines with newer version of Solaris and we could install it in older machines with their blessing, free of charge, and supported under the contract for the previous version.
You can say many things about Sun, but they never tried to abuse the Solaris upgrade cycle to make a buck.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is a piece of cake to bring a Linux machines to its knees.
Solaris performance in much better in similar hardware, specially if it is SPARC based processors, and Solaris escales properly with different machines: you can start an application in a small deprtemantal server and then migrate that to big Sun iron without any changes.
In Linux the only way to achieve equivalent performance is using a grid (like Google does),
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Been solaris is what make solaris solaris. If solaris is gonna be yet another linux then why install solaris when i already have so much linuxes where to choose from?
...if they want to make a dent in Linux's success, they would have to:
* GPL 2 it. (not likely)
* Make it faster. (not likely)
* Make it so that all gnu projects will compile easily on it. (impossible)
* Invent the killer app everyone just has to have that forces you to run Sun operating systems. (won't happen)
* Come up with some other realistic incentive besides being Sun.
Right now, I have a Linux-based infrastructure for my business, and there's NO incentive to use Sun software or hardware, none, nada, zip.
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
Very few people can attest to this because few people work in environments where the differences becom obvious.
It is of course the combination of Solaris/Sparc vs Linux/x86 , Solaris is designed in a way that scales well with your application. If you need more swap, disk space, memory Solaris will make good use of it, Linux not necessarily so (this improved with the most recent release of the kernel, the new scheduling mechanism seems to have imporved things quite a bit).
On top of that the tools for disk management (Disk Suite and Veritas) are more mature in Solaris, as is Database Support from Oracle and Sybase, the big dadys in the field. Armed with this infrastructure you can approach problems that Linux/ix86/MySQL (or evne Oracle) can't touch at the moment.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And so, the wheel turns full circle. As summer fades into autumn, then winter gives way to spring and summer returns again; so doth GNU depart from Unix, only to return again to Unix.
The GNU project was originally meant to be an alternative to the closed-source Unix implementations of the day. Like a heroin dealer relying on the twin pillars of illegality and addictive potential, closed-source Unix vendors had little incentive to improve their products; they just had to be different enough from the competition that you couldn't switch easily.
It really took for Linux to come on the scene to get GNU into a usable state; the BSD kernel (which had been favoured by the GNU developers prior to the advent Linux) already came with well-matched userland tools. And you've got to be serious about something to buy a whole car that already works just to rip out the engine and use it in a different chassis that looks identical to the first one from a distance. The GNU/Linux combination sparked interest in GNU. In turn, the BSDs diversified; today FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD all have their own respective market niches.
Closed-source Unix continues to stagnate and ultimately will grow irrelevant. The elephant in the room is that neither hardware nor software make up the bulk of the intrinsic value of a computer system; that value comes mainly from users' saved data.
Open Source pretty much forces you to implement Open Standards for saved files, which leads to transparent interoperability between programs that do the same sort of thing. In the end, AbiWord on GNU/Linux, OpenOffice.org on Solaris and KWord on FreeBSD will all be able to open the same documents. The brand of tools used to shape the data is becoming less important than the result of using them. That's already how it is in other industries. After all, who ever asked what brand of cooking equipment a restaurant uses, or what make of tools a cabinet maker uses? The important thing is that chopping food with one make of knife doesn't block you from cooking it in a different manufacturer's pans, and rough-cutting a piece of wood with one make of power saw doesn't prevent you finishing it with a different manufacturer's chisel. Using one OS and application stack on your computer shouldn't preclude you from working with data manipulated using a different OS and stack. That's already the way it's heading, slowly but surely.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
They remain set for a single-CPU desktop workstation.
Page scan rate and all the other VM parameters come set out-of-the box for a workstation. Imagine how well that works on a fully-loaded SunFire 25K with 144 CPUs and half a terabyte of RAM that starts swapping...
"As we make Solaris more familiar to Linux users, we don't [want to] lose what makes it more compelling and competitive." For those of us that missed the memo, what was it that made Solaris "compelling and competitive"?
It wasn't until solaris 7 that the X11 header files were actually useable. Compiling anything 'non-sun' was, and still is, a pain in the ass. Especially Xlib. Especially if you don't want to buy Sun cc. Sun is doing too little, way to late, IMO. I've been replacing Sun workstations and servers with linux stuff left and right for the past couple years. Users enjoy the desktop facelift, and admins like the myriad of tools available for Linux (not to mention tcp-wrappers and netfilter). The budget likes the cheaper hardware. Yes, the PC hardware is crap compared to Sun's but transplanting hardware is a breeze with a lot of PCs on site. Let me say also that I don't agree with the svcs stuff in Solaris 10. The idea of not trying to mount NFS partitions if the nic isn't coming up is a great idea but the time it takes to master the complexity of svcs is not ample tradeoff to boot -s and editing vfstab.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
...but, to be successful, both Linux and Solaris need to learn from MS, that is, try to figure out what the end users want.
machine >uname -sr /bin
SunOS 5.8
machine >cd
machine >ls *sh
bash hash ksh pfksh remsh rsh ssh zsh
csh jsh pfcsh pfsh rksh sh tcsh
machine >
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
So at then edn they will not really care what OS you are running.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Here's what worked for me:
/compat
...
1. Dump Linux for FreeBSD
2. Linux
3.
4. Peace of mind!
Get out in the real world some time.
Where reliability isn't just important, it's critical. Where scalability isn't just important, it's critical. Where maintainability is valued over a hacker's OS because there aren't a bunch of free grad students to do all the damn work.
Show me a Linux kernel that can handle multi-threaded apps running on 144 CPUs and using a terabyte of virtual memory.
Hell, show me a 64-bit Linux that doesn't puke on its shoes when you put a multi-threaded app like Oracle under strace to see what it's doing. Kinda important for apps that want more than a couple of gigs of memory, isn't it? Solaris has been fully 64-bit compliant for over a decade.
Put that in your hash pipe and smoke it.
I do not want such abomination as default, thank you very much.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I love haveing 50,000 rpm dependencies just because I need to install a X11 library.
Sun's Business Model
If you're going to sell someone a $54,000 server, you damn well want to make sure it uses as robust an operating system behind it as possible. When you're in the business of buying and selling SPARCs, charging for OS licenses is just nickel and dime stuff.
Solbourne was already dealing with Sun's hi jinks BEFORE Axil was even started. Tadpole came ALONG MUCH LATER. And obviously, you were not associated with any of these companies back then.
I could site the standard disclaimer that I'm a Solaris SysAdmin and have worked with most major versions of UNIX over the years. Hrm.. I think I just did.
:shudder:) is the OS for the data-center and things that are big. Linux is fine for most things that are mid-sized to smallish, and let's face it, the majority of things these days are mid-sized to smallish, despite what we may say when we're explaining things to management. If it's not maintaining over 20 concurrent Apache threads, or using a SGA of upwards of 8 GB Linux is fine. (and I'd bet the Apache thing would be fine there too).
Having just come out of a project to implement a large multi-system Oracle project on Linux, in a Solaris shop, this announcement brings me a little hope, and a little trepidation. Linux is better for day-to-day usage by non-sysadmins. Bash lets you be lazy, which is good, and the default path lets you do all sorts of things that you have to know where they are on Solaris. Bottom line for me though is I can do more with fewer Solaris machines. We've implemented this current solution on about 16 little linux boxes and 4 'big' linux boxes. The sysadmin overhead of attending to this small flock of systems is aggravating, especially when I know I could do about the same thing on 2 Sun machines. Yeah, I don't get the cool 'up2date -u' command to patch, but in our environment we can't just turn that on in cron, we have to test releases and such. What really cheeses me off about Linux is how well it doesn't do for really large databases and memory foot prints. You have to jump through a lot of hoops to use more than 4GB of RAM, and it doesn't get much better when you start heading north of that point. Solaris lets me be lazy in that regard. "Oh, we need more processors and memory? Hrm... my 2900 has a blade left, let's just drop in 4 more cores and another 8 GB of RAM. Sure I've gotta re-boot but it'll go out of the box and I don't have to monkey with the clustering."
Solaris (or AIX or HP-UX
Quit whining and learn UNIX. The greybeards are better to have on your side than to be fighting with.
What if it is just turtles all the way down?
That's pretty neat, thanks! I'd never heard of Nexenta before. So basically it's the kernel+libc from Solaris, with the Debian userland...
But, uhm, is there any real evidence that the Solaris kernel is actually *better* than the Linux kernel? The Linux kernel definitely supports a LOT more hardware. Although Solaris is seen as more heavy duty by a lot of IT folks, I'm not sure if there's a good reason for this besides long-time familiarity.
My bicyles
Isn't this what AIX did years back when they released AIX 5L? (L for Linux)
"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
i presume that leaves you with CDE as well?
Remember Microsoft telling us OS/2 would be a better DOS than DOS?
Then Microsoft turns around and screws their own deal with IBM by releasing Windows 3.0 as a separate product with a hacked together back end and the original Presentation Manager front end, then divorcing themselves from IBM after it actually became marketable and successful.
A build system would not be ideal.
I should be able to point my boxes at a mirror (or enterprise-central) server, search or ask it to install a package by name, it download only what I need, install it and the prerequisites (updating anything that would need to be updated in the process), put example config files in the right place, all without using Make or CC.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I mean, it's nice to do it all in one command, but all it's doing is:
gunzip -9 infile | tar xf -
When you add that z flag to "tar xzf infile"
Syntactic sugar. I don't know, tar and cpio are really shitty archive formats anyway unless you need to do stuff in a stream. We need an archive format with per-file (or per-directory) compression and an index so you can actually use the goddamn SEEK system call to speed up access... (and infozip, while it has some nice Unix features, is limited by compatibility with other implementations).
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
it's just a pain in the ass after using almost any Linux distro.
I know that's a troll comment. I don't mean to be a troll about it, but if I were to distill all of my experiences with Solaris, it really would come down to that. More than anything, it seems like Solaris consistently excelled at wasting large amounts of my time. And I don't think it was just because I was unfamiliar with it. I became familiar with it. I tweaked it until it almost looked and felt like Linux, and still it was a pain to use.
While ZFS is incredible, and DTrace amazing, there are so many other aspects of the system that are just horrendous. The package system, the userland, the complete (and intentional) lack of virtual terminals, the installer (this is a whole new world of pain). The installer is singularly the worst computing experience I've ever had, bar none. And don't lecture me about jumpstart. New users don't use jumpstart, they use that crappy-ass installer that is enough to put even the most devoted fanboy off Solaris. And this really tells the story about Solaris. While it has an amazing kernel, Sun has just completely ignored the critical features needed to recruit and retain new users.
Solaris needs community support, yet Solaris, even OpenSolaris, is still not self-hosting. Solaris is not open source in the way Linux is. The source is there, but for all practical purposes it is useless. There is no official OpenSolaris distro. You have to install Solaris Express, muck around with things, and then if you are lucky enough to get things compiled, you have this kind of hybrid, non-redistributable thing that sits in a legal gray area. Furthermore, even if you get this far, your "open" system is liable to be completely out of date in a month because there is no way to incrementally upgrade the kernel source. On "flag" days, you have to use a utility which is little more than a "this works in most cases but don't use it production" hack to install the new source and utilities. So to even get a system with the kernel source, you will not be able to reliably keep it up to date, or have any assurance that is even stable. Contrast this with having the source to the stable Linux kernel as a standard part of the OS. Forget the idea of having anything like 'make menuconfig.' So in many respects, Solaris being "open" is more marketing than practical reality.
And while there is Nexenta (Ubuntu with a Solaris kernel), which is an amazing feat, and already about as close to a Linux system running a Solaris kernel that you can get, they receive almost no support from Sun. As wonderful as Nexenta is, it still suffers from the fact that not all of OpenSolaris being completely open. That last I looked, it had no man pages, b/c Sun had not released them. They had to hack libm, as it was not available for a long time, and they had to hack their libc because Solaris' libc had strange dependencies on their (long broken) ksh implementation, which was not released as well. Furthermore, it, like every OpenSolaris distro is not self-hosting. And, rather than just embracing Nexenta's fabulous work in this area, Sun massive NIH complex demands that it make Solaris more Linux-like things it's own way.
There is little doubt in my mind that the Solaris kernel is one of the finest operating system kernels in existence, and is far superior to the Linux kernel. Sun's problem is that not only is everything surrounding that kernel stagnant, but that it really hasn't done the basic things needed to build a real community. Until OpenSolaris really is an open Solaris, with a stable, compilable kernel which can be incrementally upgraded and maintained by users, Solaris simply will not gain the support of the open source community. And that is what really matters today. I can Google "Ubuntu kidney" and find some informative post on how somebody configured Edgy to run a dialysis machine. That is, if I have a problem, I can get answers. Community support is more powerful than Sun support. I know, I've used both. And withou
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/User:Steve_Ballmer
pre-emptive multitasking guaranteed sound driver latency 3D support on a modern graphics card All of which I can't see coming to solaris.
I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
That's a good start...
If you're as hardcore as I am, you realize that Sun OS hasn't been a true operating system since the day they unbundled the compiler. An OS without a compiler? What do they expect me to use? Stone Knives and bear skins?
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Probably my favorite feature of Linux is the /proc filesystem.
/proc/cpuinfo . For all other Unixes, use some proprietary administration application that might not run as a normal user or might require X11.
Want to know how many and how fast your CPUs are? In Linux, cat
I can also find CPU temperature, battery status, memory usage, network stats, low-level network settings, and gazillions other things. Most other Unixes don't report that data at all necessitating third-party hardware or one must write custom ioctl client code.
The biggest SNAFU was printing; Red Hat dumped old reliable spaghetti-coded Berkeley LPR/LPD and put in outrageously unstable CUPS. Using the GUI tools, though, it only took about five minutes to re-create the same print interface and behaviour so that no clients had to be modified at all. It was just counter-intuitive to use GUI on a *nix server - I don't know why *nix companies think they have to reinvent the mac, seems like Apple already has that under control.
I think the ability of your system to survive major upgrades has more to do with how you architect your customizations (do you write a five line POSIX compatible awk script, or 200 lines of kernel-API C++ to do the same job?) than it does with what OS you choose. There's a scalable, portable way to think about meeting requirements, and there's a wet-behind-the-ears-CS-graduate way to think about it.
Right. The power of UNIX is it's simplicity. It's the flat bed truck of operating systems. Here's my car analogy in full:
This headline has been floating around Sun for over five years now. Ditto with AIX -- remember IBM's tag line of AIX-5L for 'Linux'. Solaris's core and kernel are far stronger and more extensible than Linux. Sure, with Linux every wannabe can have an x86 box - and every Solaris wannabe buys a ten year old box that no longer sells for ridiculous $$ Linux has never won an "O/S" war over Solaris or AIX. Linux can say it's beaten IRIX or HP/UX since both are pretty well dead. Solaris continues to innovate in areas such as zfs (etc); further no one can say that all the tools Solaris provides are better in BSD (because the license is better) simply because BSD is using this software based on the Solaris (Sun) CDDL, not the GNU license !
Everyone knows that Sun should have tried this years ago but did not in a denial of reality.
Just because Schwartz, a somewhat _new_ CEO, may be facing the truth does not in any way mean that the people who matter, the Solaris community, have the ability to change their culture to accomodate newcomers with a different mindset.
This is not meant in any way to disrespect the old guard; rather, it's more a humbling comment on people in general. *Solaris RIP.
[points to Indy] ... Junior.
Professor Henry Jones:
Indiana Jones: I like "Indiana."
Professor Henry Jones: We named the *dog* Indiana.
Marcus Brody: May we go home now, please?
Sallah: The dog? You are named after the dog?
Indiana Jones: I've got a lot of fond memories of that dog.
One thing people seem to forget is the GNU userspace is still being developed. If people cared, you'd find out that GNU sed and has new options to help people write better scripts. All the basic userspace commands we use in Linux (most of the GNU ones) are still being developed and enhanced.
I doubt many people even know about ftp://alpha.gnu.org where some of the REAL snapshots of the GNU userspace live (not all of them).
Thats why the GNU userspace is popular. Its not stagnating.
I remember using Solaris userspace commands, I prefer the GNU userspace.
Everyone wants a Tux in their life.
WTF? You use figures which are OLDER than the grandparent poster to show that the long term looks bad? If you read the GP article, it was talking about why Sun profitability had been turned around (for structural reasons which will continue to reap profit)
Your are either a FUD-monger or confused.
They can update their classic SunOS 4 with FreeBSD and provide the support to FreeBSD for getting it up to snuff with applications, SMP, hardware, etc., etc. It sure would be nice to see these guys really get back to their roots.
I remember as Slowaris was a time ago.
... US$ billiiiooonnnnn!!!
Solaris is poor in drivers of modern hardware. Their drivers come from its incompatible hardware.
What is the difference beetween OpenSolaris and Solaris? <- eye!!!
McNealy is thinking in copying the GPLv2 drivers from Linux to OpenSolaris.
OpenSolaris can be dual-licensed, GPLv2 and CDDL, but CDDL is incompatible with GPLv2 of the drivers and has to be revoked/removed.
McNealy is thinking too in copying the GPLv2 drivers from OpenSolaris to propietary Solaris.
We're waiting for a Sun's violation to be fined a
Maybe they can make their keyboard like the ones used my PCs, Macs, Linux, Unix, basically every other OS and networking device on Earth. That way I can type characters like "\" and "|" without having to have a separate monitor, keyboard and mouse for my Sun box while I have every other machine on one KVM switch.
Oh, and could they make solaris not suck sweaty donkey balls? That would be great.
This has been the problem with the UNIX manufacturers since Day One: NIH syndrome.
They could have merged together ten years ago and come up with an OS to beat Windows with then.
But no, they wanted to continue the policy of charging high prices, spending millions on their own development teams to "differentiate" themselves from their "competitors" - when their only "competitor" was Microsoft.
So they shot themselves in the foot and let Microsoft take over.
And now Sun is slowly realizing this. So they OSS Solaris - too little, too late. Now they want to screw around with trying to make it "look like" or "act like" or "interoperate with" or whatever with Linux.
This is stupid.
What Sun needs to do is DROP Solaris completely, and donate all the useful technology from it to the Linux development community, to be integrated into the Linux system.
HP needs to do the exact same thing with HP/UX (assuming that POS HAS any useful technology.)
IBM needs to do the exact same thing with AIX.
Where there is ONE UNIX technology (or two, counting BSD - which is not a factor against Microsoft), these companies MIGHT have a chance to topple Microsoft from the server room and someday the desktop.
As long as they continue to play the NIH game, they will lose - and only Linux has a chance - but it will take Linux longer if the big boys don't get behind it.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
There are many rather clueless comments here, but I'll address one the one about Google being able to do it, so why can't he.
(a) Google uses a custom Linux kernel. Do you know that they haven't changed the VM to address issues such as this?
(b) Google does not write large amounts of software in lisp.
I am quite familiar with the NISPOM... but everyone hates COEs (which is what you really need if you're going to try to set up any moderately complicated system)
IMHO, DISA doesn't really seem to care if you are that anal about configuration management (I've never seen an inspector look at a mouse or monitor with any seriousness). They are more concerned with functional safeguards (does the system actually behave correctly and log appropriately) and appropriate reactions to questions from key personnel (i.e. "Show me your backup password list". Correct response: "No.")
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I once complained to a Sun guy about this issue and he told me it has all got to do with certification. You see, to get US Gov projects, the OS needs to be certified. Apparently, they don't want to improve those userland tools as it may mean they will break the certification process and billions of $ worth of contract ....
Solaris tar sucks. It can't handle long filenames and renames them to some weird looking thing that reminds me of Progra~1 fugly-ness. Just what the doctor ordered a piece of backup software to do. A few random samples of people on the net complaining about Solaris tar:
t -setup/Solaris10I nstalling/SOLARIS323_2.shtmle ek-of-Mon-20040809/017086.html5 84.html
http://www.mikehan.com/rant/solaris-tools.html
http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ticket/1750
http://42.pl/postfix/postfix-2.2.2/examples/chroo
http://www.idevelopment.info/data/MySQL/DBA_tips/
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvm-commits/W
http://justlinux.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-40
Aufruf: grep [OPTION]... MUSTER [DATEI]
Suche nach MUSTER in jeder DATEI oder der Standardeingabe.
Beispiel: grep -i 'Hallo Welt' menu.h main.c
Auswahl und Interpretation regul"arer Ausdr"ucke:
-E, --extended-regexp MUSTER ist ein erweiterter regul"arer Ausdruck.
-F, --fixed-strings MUSTER ist eine Menge Newline-getrennter
Zeichenketten.
-G, --basic-regexp MUSTER ist ein regul"arer Standardausdruck.
-P, --perl-regexp MUSTER ist ein regul"arer Ausdruck,
wie Perl ihn akzeptiert.
-e, --regexp=MUSTER MUSTER als regul"aren Ausdruck verwenden.
-f, --file=FILE MUSTER aus DATEI lesen.
-i, --ignore-case Unterschied zwischen Gross- und Kleinschreibung
ignorieren.
-w, --word-regexp MUSTER passt nur auf ganze W"orter.
-x, --line-regexp MUSTER passt nur auf ganze Zeilen.
-z, --null-data Eine Zeile endet mit Nullbyte, nicht Newline.
Verschiedenes:
-s, --no-messages Fehlermeldungen unterdr"ucken.
-v, --revert-match Nicht-passende Zeilen anzeigen.
-V, --version Versionsnummer ausgeben und beenden.
--help Diese Hilfe ausgeben und beenden.
--mmap Wenn m"oglich, Eingabe in den Speicher mappen.
Ausgabekontrolle:
-m, --max-count=ZAHL Nach ZAHL "Ubereinstimmungen abbrechen.
-b, --byte-offset Byte-Offset anzeigen.
-n, --line-number Zeilennummer anzeigen.
--line-buffered Jede Zeile einzeln (ungepuffert) ausgeben.
-H, --with-filename Dateinamen bei jeder "Ubereinstimmung anzeigen.
-h, --no-filename Dateinamen nicht anzeigen.
--label=TEXT TEXT als Dateiname f"ur Standardeingabe ausgeben.
-o, --only-matching Nur den Teil der Zeile anzeigen, die mit MUSTER
"ubereinstimmt.
-q, --quiet, --silent Alle normalen Ausgaben unterdr"ucken.
--binary-files=TYP Bin"ardateien als TYP annehmen. TYP kann
>>binary>text>without-match>read>write>always>nev
If you like a horse carriage fine - but I just want a automobile!
Martin
http://www.superseventies.com/sl_indianawantsme.ht ml
Being in somewhat an agreement with the overall approach to make two operating systems more alike, I just was wandering what kind of a$$hole had written the original article? Did he (or she) ever saw Solaris and Linux not mentioning do something with those? Or such called modern journalists are just fine with putting together a few words from one guy and few from another and make their own semi-baked ignorant conclusions? What an outrage :-(
Take care, Cos