Slashdot Mirror

Here's an easy-to-find one:

http://gop.com/

Let's get the cops over to their crib right away!

And you're the idiot. Eisenhower, for example, while president, took the initative in creating the interstate highway system, but he didn't invent roads. Gore, while Senator, took the initative in creating ARPAnet and expanding it from a government project to the real world.(1) Hillary, while first lady, took the initative in creating a national health care system, and she isn't a doctor and didn't invent medicine.

Creation doesn't mean invention, and what's more, 'taking the initative in creation' doesn't even mean 'creation', so you're like two steps away from truthfulness. I can take the initiative to do something by standing up and getting others to do it. Senators, obviously, cannot do everything, so they tell others what to do. That is why he said he 'took initative' instead of saying he actually did it. It was, instead, done in a lab, at his direction. (Granted, his rather indirect direction. He said 'Hey, you got a bunch of computers talking to each other? Here's some more money, keep spending it on that.'.)

No one in the universe parses 'When I was in a political office, I took the the initiative in creating X' as saying 'I invented X' unless they're delibrately trying to misparse it. Politicians take initiative by championing bills.

What's more, they use that exact terminology all the time. That is, in fact, what the damn word 'initiative' means in politics. Witness Bush's 'American Competitiveness Initiative' and 'Helping America's Youth Initiative'. How is he going to help American's youth? Why, via legislation. I quote the GOP: Hughes has served as an adviser to President Bush on many foreignpolicy fronts and took a special interest in the status of women in Afghanistan, leading the President's initiative to free Afghan women from the Taliban. Holy shit. The president is wandering around freeing women in Afghanistan?

Or is Gore 'taking' the initiative somehow different from Bush possessing the initiative? What grammar silliness are you going to try to weasel through there?

The Republicans had a theme in the 2000 election that Gore lied all the time, and this is just one of their most absurd twists of his statements. (This theme is really ironic in the face of who we got instead, Mr. let's-pretend-they-have-WMD.)

1) And, in what continues to baffle me, everyone knows he was a damn champion of this. The entire fucking first term of Clinton was filled with Hillary yammering about national health care, and Gore yammering about, wait for it, The Information Superhighway. Granted, he was talking about earlier, when he was in the Senate, but if there's any politican anyone alive during the early 90s should link to the internet, it's Gore.

I thought that Wilson said the yellow cake claim was not true

Correct.

the white house came around and admitted the fameous "16 words" in the state of the union were in fact not true

Source? I remember them saying they shouldn't have put it in the address, but no statement that I'm aware of retracted the statement as untrue.

[me:]every independant investigation thrown at it, both in England and the US

The GOP has a page with a good summary on how Joe Wilson lied. The Washington Post also has some more.

I thought Clarke didn't make just "gossipy" claims, but very disturbing ones such as how he couldn't even get an audience with Rice, et al.

The end of that sentence undermines the beginning.

The leak on the NSA is viewed differently because of the disturbing notion that the government is now spying on the "free press" in a manner that brings facist or communist regimes to mind.

Or you and me private citizens. Anonymous sources are the tools of a kangaroo court, which is much of what the media runs these days.

And the NSA program is nothing I see a problem with. While one can wonder what such a vague term as "domestic spying" means, the actual program and what is going on is nothing I've seen a problem with.

but Reagan and Michael Deaver showed a long time ago that the medium controls the message, not the substance of the message.

I'm not saying people can't be duped. I'm saying if people are duped its their fault becuase the truth is usually very accessible. If not the truth than proper principles that help one decide the right thing to do with little information.

entitlement reform just won't happen until those programs actually crash and burn

*Sigh* but one can always hope. Looking at GM and how they are litterally knocking on the door of bankruptcy for what they pay out in pensions, I can't imagine what will happen when the US government goes bankrupt also. I imagine the furor we saw when people only suspected they would be shortchanged would be a hundred fold more sevier when they are faced with a real loss of everything.

I thought that Wilson said the yellow cake claim was not true

Correct.

the white house came around and admitted the fameous "16 words" in the state of the union were in fact not true

Source? I remember them saying they shouldn't have put it in the address, but no statement that I'm aware of retracted the statement as untrue.

[me:]every independant investigation thrown at it, both in England and the US

The GOP has a page with a good summary on how Joe Wilson lied. The Washington Post also has some more.

I thought Clarke didn't make just "gossipy" claims, but very disturbing ones such as how he couldn't even get an audience with Rice, et al.

The end of that sentence undermines the beginning.

The leak on the NSA is viewed differently because of the disturbing notion that the government is now spying on the "free press" in a manner that brings facist or communist regimes to mind.

Or you and me private citizens. Anonymous sources are the tools of a kangaroo court, which is much of what the media runs these days.

And the NSA program is nothing I see a problem with. While one can wonder what such a vague term as "domestic spying" means, the actual program and what is going on is nothing I've seen a problem with.

but Reagan and Michael Deaver showed a long time ago that the medium controls the message, not the substance of the message.

I'm not saying people can't be duped. I'm saying if people are duped its their fault becuase the truth is usually very accessible. If not the truth than proper principles that help one decide the right thing to do with little information.

entitlement reform just won't happen until those programs actually crash and burn

*Sigh* but one can always hope. Looking at GM and how they are litterally knocking on the door of bankruptcy for what they pay out in pensions, I can't imagine what will happen when the US government goes bankrupt also. I imagine the furor we saw when people only suspected they would be shortchanged would be a hundred fold more sevier when they are faced with a real loss of everything.

Something many people here and in other predominantly-left forums seem to be missing is that many Americans truly, honestly believed that Bush was the better candidate. I doubt that your average Republican voted for Bush any more automatically than the typical Democrat voted for Kerry, and yet everyone seems to think that only Republicans were partisan voters. Well, guess what: there are sheep on both sides of the fence. Singling out one group of them will only alienate the bloc of voters you should be trying to persuade.

I voted for Bush for various reasons, but I would probably stand alongside you if a recall vote were held today. The time for partisan sniping is over. We need to work together if we want to make a difference.

As a side note to fellow Republicans, his closing advice is just as valid for us. Contact the RNC and make your opinion known. Write to your representatives and senate and let them know that you disagree with executive branch policies. This is your party: step up and take charge of it.

"If aliens would like to see webpage of WHOLE earth's goverment, where would they go?"

GOP.com, of course.

We live in a capitalist society, and in that kind of society products and services and provided by companies based on the greatest demand.

The analogy between demand and votes, often called voting with one's dollar, is a common rhetorical device. Besides, apathetic American voters elected the Republican and Democratic legislators who enacted the anticircumvention provisions of the DMCA by voice vote, putting us into this mess in the first place.

When your right to vote gets taken away because your black, or your right to drive gets taken away because you're a woman, then you can start complaining.

My right to vote, and the right of everybody else who doesn't agree with the platform of the GOP or the ASS to vote, is already taken away under the equilibrium of Duverger's Law, which applies to all first-past-the-post election systems.

"Gringo" has a pejorative element to it. You know this as well as I do.

I'd say you're the one who's using "weasel words" here as a way to veil your hatred.

And if you don't feel like you can participate in civil discourse without bigoted terms, then you're the one who should leave

I'm sure Latino-nationalist hate sites like Voz De Aztlan or MEChA would love to hear from you.

I know its offtopic here, but there are devastating, point-by-point rebuttals of Moore's lies here and here.

Technically Ed Gillespie is the Head of the republican party. The President is the Senior elected official of our government and he happens to be a member of the GOP.

However, the Dallas Morning News, which also looked into Bush's military record, reported that while Bush's unit in Texas had a waiting list for many spots, he was accepted because he was one of a handful of applicants willing and qualified to spend more than a year in active training flying F-102 jets.

Um. No. Sen. Kerry is opposed to tax reform. He wants to raise taxes. Maybe that's where you got mixed up.

In case you didn't notice the USA now has the single biggest deficit it has ever had in its entire history. *Someone* has to pay for that, or do you think (as Bush seems to) that the magic money fairy is going to just make the debt vanish? Deficit spending is like using a credit card, you get instant gratification, then pay through the nose later on. Someone's got to pay, and the elite have more money than I do, so let them pay for Bush's war.

Sen. Kerry wants to keep Social Security as it is; President Bush wants to introduce privatization initiatives.

Sen. Kerry wants to make health insurance a federal entitlement; President Bush wants to cut health care and health insurance costs instead.

Less sarcastically, are you aware of the fact that here in the US we spend around $4,500 per capita on health care. In Canada they spend around $2,500 per capita. In Japan (where they also have socialized medicine) its only around $2,000 per capita. The USA has the absolute highest per capita health care expenditures on the planet, and yet has the third lowest average life expectancy of any first world nation (only Ireland and Portugal rank lower). My point here is that the fabeled "efficiency" of corporatized medicine doesn't seem to be apparent in the real world. We spend more money, and have shorter lives, and you want me to think that that's a good thing?

There are important differences. These are just a few. Read the platforms.

You'll notice, as you read the Democratic platform that eating Christian babies, raising taxes on everyone, forcing streights to become gay, and surrendering to Osama are not actually part of the Democratic platform. Funny how reality doesn't really match what Rush says, isn't it?

1. Throwing a knife = harm.
2. 
   Throwing a napkin = no harm.
   Spewing sarin = harm.
   Spewing asbestos = ???
   Spewing carbon monoxide = ???
   Spewing peanut oil = ???
   Spewing hydrogen dioxide = no harm

So a few weeks ago the Republican National Committee comes out with Kerryopoly, apparently criticizing John Kerry for being rich. Yes, that's right, republicans criticizing someone for being rich. The response? Contractopoly from the Centre for American Progress, where you get to collect no-bid Iraqi rebuilding contracts. There's an expression to do with pointing out the splinter in your neighbour's eye while not noticing the plank in your own, I think it might apply here.

The so feared Republican Guards just disappeared.

Some wish they would...

What if Iraqi people were able to sort out Saddam Hussein themselves?

They weren't able to do so for decades.

You have made some good clearly stated points and I believe I have as well. This has been a good debate, but we see things from a different perspective. I will make one final comment though.

It's too bad you didn't ask the same before believing the Iraq Weapons claims.

Actually I was against the war from the beginning. I felt that Iraq was not a real threat even if he did have WMDs, though I still do not doubt that Bush felt he was. I also felt that we were going into Afghanastan without enough proof. As it turns out we were right about Bin Ladin, and I am certainly glad that Sadam is out of power whether our war was justified or not.

Believe me I am not a Bush supporter. I just don't see a viable alternative. As for Kerry's voting record there is a nice chart here. The article is of course BIAS, but then again every article about politics is Bias. The chart is good though. For a source with far better source quoting try here If you can get past the fact that it is the GOP website. Finally for a completely unbiased look here is a link to his voting record. I notice quite a few instances where he was not voting. I have also read Kerry's website extensively and though I find him MUCH more tolerable than Howard Dean, I still wish there was a viable third candidate.

http://www.gop.com/default.aspx Sign up right at the top.

Republican Guard

...funding was continued by another Democratic leader called George Bush.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Im a young male puertorican in college and i agree with you 100% percent. Its unfortunate that the argument we share would have us branded as Uncle Toms by our own people.

One of my life goals is to find like-minded people and help spread this message.