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Come on now -- would you let them kill you rather than give up your crypto?

No, but I'd sure as fuck move somewhere else like Anguilla if these control-freak totalitarian motherfuckers succeed in turning America into a police state. I expect Havenco http://www.havenco.com to see a serious uptick in business soon as they will host any content and won't divulge customer data to anyone.

was co-lo in an (formerly) abandoned platform in the Northern Sea, then this. Whhat's next? A submarine? Co-lo in the international space station?

Sierra Leone.

As far as I and appendix C of "DNS & Bind" are aware SeaLand does not have a ccTLD yet. I can't see that it really needs one and they don't seem to think so either since their official website is at http://www.sealandgov.com and HavenCo. has their own seperate .COM website. That aside, .ccTLD != server in whatever "cc" represents, but WHOIS should give the correct info. If is wasn't so easy to lie on WHOIS anyway...

So we've established that ccTLDs are useless in this respect and that WHOIS is unreliable, which rules out the Internet regulating itself as it stands. So the Econmist has hit the nail right on the head; because the global legislative bodies can't agree on anything we are going to end up with a patch work of laws and ugly France/Nazi memorabilia type law suits.

In that light, countries like China and Afghanistan that take on the responsibility of policing their own laws at their borders suddenly seem more friendly to the Internet's way of doing things. It's just highly unfortunate that their populace didn't get a say in the matter, which more than cancels that out.

While I feel incredibly sorry for Dmitry and his family, there's absolutely nothing about this incident which couldn't be fully predicted from the DMCA itself, and the general legal trend in the US for the past 50+ years. Corporations are in the business of maximizing profit and minimizing risk, and governments are in the business of maximizing order, increasing control, and growing their headcount, prestige, and budgets. This is the logical result of evolution through time.

Without strong protections, enshrined in contracts like the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and in the everyday behavior and norms expected by a well-educated, informed, and active citizenry, things will naturally become more and more authoritarian. We've seen it in the US with DMCA, CALEA, and other new laws, as well as administrative actions taken by government agencies. We've seen it in the UK, with abominations like the RIP Act. We've seen it in the EU, which passes laws which ostensibly protect individual privacy but in fact create new bureaucracy. And Asia and Australia are even worse in a lot of ways.

Absent a major change in public perception (which I think is highly unlikely), the only path to individual liberty is technical. Perhaps it is now the case that security researchers, mathematicians, and pro-liberty activists must go underground, communicating using anonymous remailers, pseudonyms, and strong cryptography. Certainly groups have been forced underground in the past, but given certain conditions, it is impossible for them to be totally silenced. There are plenty of places in the world where people can live in freedom, due to a policy (intentional or unintentional) of tolerance -- Holland, Costa Rica, islands in the Caribbean, the Pacific -- for those who can't live underground in their own lands. Hopefully, HavenCo and Sealand can play some role in safeguarding liberty for those who live in other nations, by hosting servers for sensitive projects, remailers, and other infrastructure, as well as serving as an example of rational security policy for other nations. However, systems like Mojonation, Gnutella, Napster, ZKS Freedom, Mixmaster remailers, OpenPGP, and BitTorrent are perhaps more important for enabling this kind of research to be conducted, if not openly, at least securely.

If you're going to campaign for political change, don't just campaign for Dmitry to be released, or the DMCA to be overturned -- the core issue here is the continued erosion of individual liberty, at the hands of government, "well-intentioned do-gooders", and corporations.

I look forward to seeing people at HAL 2001, which thankfully is being held in a fairly free country.

Ryan Lackey
http://www.venona.com/rdl/
http://www.havenco.com/

While I feel incredibly sorry for Dmitry and his family, there's absolutely nothing about this incident which couldn't be fully predicted from the DMCA itself, and the general legal trend in the US for the past 50+ years. Corporations are in the business of maximizing profit and minimizing risk, and governments are in the business of maximizing order, increasing control, and growing their headcount, prestige, and budgets. This is the logical result of evolution through time.

Without strong protections, enshrined in contracts like the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and in the everyday behavior and norms expected by a well-educated, informed, and active citizenry, things will naturally become more and more authoritarian. We've seen it in the US with DMCA, CALEA, and other new laws, as well as administrative actions taken by government agencies. We've seen it in the UK, with abominations like the RIP Act. We've seen it in the EU, which passes laws which ostensibly protect individual privacy but in fact create new bureaucracy. And Asia and Australia are even worse in a lot of ways.

Absent a major change in public perception (which I think is highly unlikely), the only path to individual liberty is technical. Perhaps it is now the case that security researchers, mathematicians, and pro-liberty activists must go underground, communicating using anonymous remailers, pseudonyms, and strong cryptography. Certainly groups have been forced underground in the past, but given certain conditions, it is impossible for them to be totally silenced. There are plenty of places in the world where people can live in freedom, due to a policy (intentional or unintentional) of tolerance -- Holland, Costa Rica, islands in the Caribbean, the Pacific -- for those who can't live underground in their own lands. Hopefully, HavenCo and Sealand can play some role in safeguarding liberty for those who live in other nations, by hosting servers for sensitive projects, remailers, and other infrastructure, as well as serving as an example of rational security policy for other nations. However, systems like Mojonation, Gnutella, Napster, ZKS Freedom, Mixmaster remailers, OpenPGP, and BitTorrent are perhaps more important for enabling this kind of research to be conducted, if not openly, at least securely.

If you're going to campaign for political change, don't just campaign for Dmitry to be released, or the DMCA to be overturned -- the core issue here is the continued erosion of individual liberty, at the hands of government, "well-intentioned do-gooders", and corporations.

I look forward to seeing people at HAL 2001, which thankfully is being held in a fairly free country.

Ryan Lackey
http://www.venona.com/rdl/
http://www.havenco.com/

Is this really a media hack to tweak people about the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Buch League's plans to drill it for oil and cut down all the trees to make government paperwork?

You'd have much better luck putting a hosting center on one of the First Nations reservations outside of Victoria BC. Some of them don't have treaties with the Canadian government, so there're interesting possibilities for using their sovereignty rights and tax status, and they're English-speaking and near the networks.

For that matter, you'd have much better luck putting a hosting center on some or a slightly-used nuclear missile bunker in the UK.

Oh, I dunno ... there are places that sound similarly confining (see HavenCo ;)) and if you like snow, darkness and books, it might not be so bad.

More importantly, though, it should be staffed like the Enterprise, with a co-ed crew made up only of attractive youngish people from all races in skin-tight clothing.

With 1/2 a million (!! could that have been a typo?!!) servers, they could probably due with a small colony of sysadmins, build a small orgy room, holodeck, etc.

timothy

All of our contracts give HavenCo the right to cancel at will if the customer's web site or service is endangering our access to Internet connectivity, reasons for which spam is typically #1. Our advanced technical anti-spam and anti-attack techniques will prevent all customers from using our services for this purpose, and we will respond promptly to any complaints of spam.

While I think we can all agree with their choice to ban use of servers for spam on the basis that it could seriously endanger their business, what does this imply about their provision of other taboo services? If someone sets up Napster2 on Sealand, will it be shut down on this same basis, that it "is endangering [their] access to Internet connectivity"?

Sealand could face some major flak if they serve as a safe-harbour to exiled Internet services and they may simply not be willing to allow that flak to threaten their operations, as Spam would.

It seems clear to me that a constitutional challenge by the ACLU and other organizations would follow, treaty or no treaty. Since when do we allow enforcement of foreign laws within the United States? With treaties like this in the works, only anonymized Internet access AND servers located in data havens like HavenCo are likely to provide us with protections we (Americans) should already enjoy under the 4th Amendment.

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, "A people who give up freedom for security deserve neither."

You're trolling here, right ? Or do you really want to tell us that swapping music is comparable to drug traffiking and money laundering ? Man, you should really stop reading tis MPAA/RIAA propaganda crap. You know, they lie a lot...

Maybe (IANAL, so I can only say maybe) this avoids responsibility but does this make it any less illegal?

Well, it depends. Check out Havenco's AUP. It's an interesting read and they don't permit to have everything hosted on their servers (e.g. spam is explicitely prohibited).

Arguably Sealand is an indpendent country and its governmental structure doesn't leave much leeway for brib^H^H^H^H threat^H^H^H^H^H^H buying l^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H to lobby it into putting more value into protection of corporate interests then individual rights.

Thankfully, the US doesn't have world jurisdiction. Recent incidents (supreme court on presidential elections, DeCSS ruling, eToys vs. the etoy.CORPORATION, etc...) make me believe that this would be a very bad idea indeed.

BTW: I never downloaded an MP3. It's just too darn tedious and expensive in Europe.

I woke up this morning to find about 500 messages in our trouble ticketing system about this. Heh.
(I'm one of the cofounders of HavenCo, and the CTO, if you didn't already know; I'm also an active slashdot reader (what else do you think we do for fun out in the middle of the north sea?))

First of all, www.fairtunes.com is hosted in Canada, is slashdotted, and isn't our fault!

Second, I can't comment on confidential discussions with customers w/o their permission, but yes, from looking at the fairtunes site, it looks like they're trying to raise money to pay for a year of service on one of our boxes with the goal being to host an offshore OpenNap server. I'm personally a user of napster (although I mainly use Mojonation now. We definitely would like to have them as a customer -- what they're doing doesn't violate our AUP, and we're happy to offer service to anyone who will pay. Of course, what they are doing is NOT being done by us; if they choose to host with us, it's still their responsibility.

We have network connectivity through multiple providers around the world, and can easily add more. We assign customers a /29, so if any government decides they must protect their citizens from human-rights information, music trading services, etc., they would need to block the customer's /29, affecting only that customer. I personally think the chances of IP blocking at the borders of a country are pretty slim in any marginally free country -- it's difficult from a technical perspective, would be widely opposed by users, and is generally not worthwhile.

As for HavenCo's service, we've been up since May 2000, and now that we have high-speed low-latency network, fully debugged power systems, etc. we're offering commercial service to anyone who is interested and obeys our AUP. Our pricing is standardized, and is USD 1500/month for a 2U box with redundant power, cooling, 24x7 network monitoring, armed security, etc., and 256kbps of Internet bandwidth (local 100baseTX is free, so people can offer services to other HavenCo customers without paying for bandwidth). We charge a USD 1500 one-time setup fee, and USD 3500 for hardware (we can use any high-quality 1U or 2U box, and pricing is US cost; we don't try to make a profit off hardware, but we can't accept non-rackmount, low quality, etc. stuff). We have about 3-5 days lead time, from receipt of payment, before we can have a server up and running, and as long as you're not doing spam/spam support, child pornography, or hacking from our machines, we'd love to have you as a customer; contact sales@havenco.com for more info.

We're in the middle of a web redesign, and have been trying to focus on getting services fully up, rather than getting more press, but we're about to begin a big sales and press push. This is a bit earlier than was planned, but now that people are getting slashdotted, might as well post. :)

I woke up this morning to find about 500 messages in our trouble ticketing system about this. Heh.
(I'm one of the cofounders of HavenCo, and the CTO, if you didn't already know; I'm also an active slashdot reader (what else do you think we do for fun out in the middle of the north sea?))

First of all, www.fairtunes.com is hosted in Canada, is slashdotted, and isn't our fault!

Second, I can't comment on confidential discussions with customers w/o their permission, but yes, from looking at the fairtunes site, it looks like they're trying to raise money to pay for a year of service on one of our boxes with the goal being to host an offshore OpenNap server. I'm personally a user of napster (although I mainly use Mojonation now. We definitely would like to have them as a customer -- what they're doing doesn't violate our AUP, and we're happy to offer service to anyone who will pay. Of course, what they are doing is NOT being done by us; if they choose to host with us, it's still their responsibility.

We have network connectivity through multiple providers around the world, and can easily add more. We assign customers a /29, so if any government decides they must protect their citizens from human-rights information, music trading services, etc., they would need to block the customer's /29, affecting only that customer. I personally think the chances of IP blocking at the borders of a country are pretty slim in any marginally free country -- it's difficult from a technical perspective, would be widely opposed by users, and is generally not worthwhile.

As for HavenCo's service, we've been up since May 2000, and now that we have high-speed low-latency network, fully debugged power systems, etc. we're offering commercial service to anyone who is interested and obeys our AUP. Our pricing is standardized, and is USD 1500/month for a 2U box with redundant power, cooling, 24x7 network monitoring, armed security, etc., and 256kbps of Internet bandwidth (local 100baseTX is free, so people can offer services to other HavenCo customers without paying for bandwidth). We charge a USD 1500 one-time setup fee, and USD 3500 for hardware (we can use any high-quality 1U or 2U box, and pricing is US cost; we don't try to make a profit off hardware, but we can't accept non-rackmount, low quality, etc. stuff). We have about 3-5 days lead time, from receipt of payment, before we can have a server up and running, and as long as you're not doing spam/spam support, child pornography, or hacking from our machines, we'd love to have you as a customer; contact sales@havenco.com for more info.

We're in the middle of a web redesign, and have been trying to focus on getting services fully up, rather than getting more press, but we're about to begin a big sales and press push. This is a bit earlier than was planned, but now that people are getting slashdotted, might as well post. :)

Sealand isn't really much of an island. It's an old WW2 concrete artilery platform - completely man-made. It was abandoned for many years, before being settled on by Paddy Roy Bates, who has since been proclaimed 'king'

Their main claim to sovereignty is that the UK ignored them for many years, writing them off as a bunch of loonies. However, in the last few years they've been allowing HavenCo to situate their servers on the island, and the UK government have started laying claim to the island.

Note however, they get all their power and internet connection from nearby countries, who would be entirely within their rights to switch off the connection if Havenco start doing something they disagree with.

Useful Links:

• The Principility of Sealand's page
• HavenCo's corperate page

-Ciaran

Matt

maybe this has been talked about before, but what about moving napster/etc to a place like Sealand,an island off the british coast that has claimed it's own independence since 1967. A company called HavenCo plans to host colocation services there.

may be a longshot, but you never know

--

OK, this is illegal, right? Computer fraud? unsolicited email? I know that if I did something similiar, I'd have the FBI busting into my house. Oh, let me guess... The DMCA allows this.

I wonder if this sort of intimidation holds any weight at a hosting company like Havenco. Any thoughts?

One word: HavenCo

here, for us lazy people :) considering I just got this URL cause I was too busy reading about how people forge Sealand passports :)

the most important thing to consider is that its a treaty, not everyone will sign it...

NOT SEALAND, not Haven Co.

:-)
/nutt

Isn't Sealand/Havenco exactly what you are talking about? They will host your server, I don't think they enforce copyright, big pipe (and growing), no unstable govt (though yet to demonstrate a long-term viable one, they have yet to fail to do so either). Why bother with Afghanistan (no pipe, unstable/oppresive govt, etc). Put Sealand to the test!

HavenCo is the ideal place to host this type of information. I can already hear a few of you screaming, so put a sock in it. This is a great idea whose time has come, and needs support.

If you are talking about Havenco, they haven't started hosting yet.
----------

And if such an organisation were created, which I find an excellent idea, a first place for them to host their communications could be havenCo.

On the other hand that might just be the level of undesirable attention that would lead to an invasion of SeaLand.

------------------------------

...to secure data/backups would be, as he writes in his article, off-site backups. How about VPN or secure NFS to a place like, yes you guessed it, HavenCo.
Most of my friends tell me that I'm paranoid, and maybe I am, but hey I think it's kind of cool encrypting emails, files etc, and apart from the feeling, it does keep my data safe, should it be necessary.

If the hackers release the source into the "wild", we're likely to see a similar situation to DeCSS - anyone who hosts or links to the source code for Windows or any other Microsoft software will have the full force of Microsoft's legal vultures brought to bear upon them.

Wonder if HavenCo would host it. That would mean a real, live-fire test of SeaLand's sovereignty - if Microsoft can't beat them, then noone has a chance! :-)

D.

HavenCo!

Man, will HC ever go live so we can stop reading about all these precious web jewels being trounced upon by lawyers?

- JoeShmoe

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -

...whether HavenCo has considered setting up a service with all of these features. They would be in a unique position to support privacy because governments couldn't pressure them. They'd probably have very good reliability too.

Law is a very funny thing, and funnier still is the American attitude that any laws they pass are enforceable globally (examples such as the Helms-Burton Act, relating to trade with Cuba, spring to mind very quickly).

At the end of the day, people that understand the problems that today's technology laws are making will start moving themselves, at the very least in a virtual manner, to jurisdictions where such things aren't problematic, or don't exist. One classic example of this is (or will be) HavenCo. Based on the Pseudostate of Sealand, is a place which is basically lawless, and proud of the fact. As long as you don't peddle kiddie porn, you will be able to host just about anything on their servers.

HavenCo's existance could, theoretically, be ignored if ISPs are forced to filter the IP addresses to which users are allowed to connect. However, this is an impractical technology to use, as there are a vast array of methods available to get around it.

BTW, HavenCo has been mentioned on Slashdot here and here.

laws, schmaws!
HavenCo

Does this sound like Sealand (more info here) and HavenCo? It sure does to me.

I was pondering at length on this a while back, and had a disturbing though:

What would happen if instead of HavenCo operating on Sealand, suddenly Microsoft picked up from Redmond and plunked itself down on Sealand? What would happen if Microsoft was its own COUNTRY?

http://www.havenco.com/

Time make copies of *all* your books/data/publications and move them to a data-haven. Yes, they aren't just for Neal Stephenson books any more. See:

• Havenco

How fat a pipe does Sealand have? Even just providing a centralized list (or several, to be more accurate) of people with song X, and not actually CARRYING song X, with several thousand users per server (pre-lawsuit) that's not exactly an insignificant bit of bandwidth.

And, if you'll excuse my paranoia for a moment, how easy is it to pull Sealand's plug if they get deemed "too dangerous"? While the connection from Sealand is by satelite, the signal has to come down at some point and travel on physical wire/fiber.

Backhoe operator says "Oops, I didn't realize that data cable was there!", then goes home with a nice wad of $CONSPIRACY_THEORY_SUBJECT cash to buy little Suzie a new dollhouse.

Dan "Of course, at the threshold=2 I normally browse at I'm not likely to see this post, let alone any replies..." Poore

I was thinking about this whole napster thing. What if Napster went off and hosted in Havenco on the territory of Sealand? What forces would be able to bar them if they were based off Sealand? I feel this seems to be the only logical step Napster or a future derivative of that company could take to minimize all this legal fights with RIAA.

Havenco is also letting people who are proseucuted by their gov's host their sites free of charge. Very nice deal.

--

The problem with this, however, is the fact that if you encrypt your communications as you suggest, you face a 2 year jail sentence for refusal of giving them the keys. Furthermore, you can't tell ANYONE that you have given them the keys (if you decide against a 2 year sentence). If you do, you face a 5 year jail sentence. This kind of crap literally SCARES me. If the US ever thinks of pulling that, I'm moving to sealand to work at Data Haven.

And OpenNap servers are just as easy to target for take down by the music industry goons as they get the IPs for them.

I wonder if anyone has considered opening a Napigator/OpenNAP server on HavenCo/Sealand where the can know the IP addy of the server all they care, but can't do a damn thing about it...

I wonder if it has occured to folks at Napster that they might apply for free colocation services at Havenco ? Of course, it'd quickly get them all in hot water with the court (if they lose for good, and would then be defying the judge's orders), but they could just move to Mexico and remotely manage the whole thing from there.

HavenCo is donating free colocation space to Non-Governmental Organizations of our choosing. In general, the types of organizations that we will want to provide hosting for are those that

promote free speech - check

promote human rights - uhm, check, I think

give a voice to minority and oppressed groups that otherwise may not be heard - check!

I wonder if it has occured to folks at Napster that they might apply for free colocation services at Havenco ? Of course, it'd quickly get them all in hot water with the court (if they lose for good, and would then be defying the judge's orders), but they could just move to Mexico and remotely manage the whole thing from there.

HavenCo is donating free colocation space to Non-Governmental Organizations of our choosing. In general, the types of organizations that we will want to provide hosting for are those that

promote free speech - check

promote human rights - uhm, check, I think

give a voice to minority and oppressed groups that otherwise may not be heard - check!

What if someone were to just setup a napster server outside of the United States? opennap seems to allow anybody to do this. What about that island near England that's supposed to be a haven to that sort of stuff? I can see it now: Saddam is no longer the ememy! It's those HACKERS that pirate the music. Everybody invade Sealand! It will start World War III. The slashdot article is located here

Yes, there is a high probability that naively encrypted e-mail will be detected, if not now, then in the foreseeable future... and they're not going to announce when they develop that capability. If it's detected, then you want to hope it's blocked, since if they don't block it, it probably means they're investigating you and planning something nasty.

People have suggested steganography. It's a good idea, but it is detectable. Present steganographic methods will not protect you against anybody who's investigating you specifically and has any real sophistication. You can tell if a message has been watermarked into an image, for instance.

And, as somebody else pointed out, even a pattern of large images passing back and forth is suspicious if you're visible enough to be watched at all. Eventually, they might get bulk techniques for detecting most kinds of steganography. Use with extreme caution.

Somebody suggested an offshore drop. Probably the safest thing, but use with caution.

Whatever crypto or steganographic software you use, make sure you know the consequences of getting caught with the software itself. I don't know what they are, but I'd suspect there might be some, especially if they wanted an excuse to nail you.

Iran

It depends on who you want to collect donations from. If you really want to take credit cards, it can be tricky to get a merchant account. One trick is to use a Web shopping-cart billing service, although they'll skim a lot of money from you.

Where to host: How about HavenCo? They're giving out free hosting for qualified human rights people. They should be pretty hard to get at.

It shouldn't be too difficult to get the money into a US bank account, perhaps in the name of a local sympathizer. It's probably a bad idea to put her own real name on the account.

Transfer of funds is the hard part. Setting up some kind of bogus commercial transaction might work. Probably not enough money there to make it worthwhile to smuggle cash, and that's mondo expensive, anyway. Be careful about running into US (or wherever) "money laundering" authorities... they have very sophisticated surveillance on this, and I wouldn't put it past them to let the information fall into the hands of the Iranian government.

There are specialists in this sort of thing. It's a good idea to seek out a good one. I've probably already said more than I'm competent to say.

I don't see any copyright issue as long as you have the author's permission (assuming the author hasn't sold the rights to anybody else).

All the comments about communication for China apply, only more so.

As I recall, one of the arguments his attorney was going to make was that forcing him to divulge this info in order to recover his property would violate his constitutional protection against self-incrimination.

Oh yeah, tricky stuff like "My passphrase is 'I killed Jane Doe' so I can't be forced to divulge it" won't fly in court. Judges don't think that kind of thing is cute at all. If you refuse to obey a Judge's order, you can be held in Contempt of Court indefinitely. However, after a few years the Judge might release you if he believes there isn't a reasonable chance of you coughing up the keys. If the alternative is a mandatory-minimum 25 year or more sentence resulting from the newly discovered evidence, it might be a worthwhile strategy.

It's important to use perfect forward secrecy whenever possible. In perfect forward secrecy, the private/public key pair is not used to encrypt the session key, but only to authenticate it. The session key is then emphemeral and never stored. That means later recovery of the private key will not allow the attacker to decrypt previously recorded communication (only conduct future man-in-the-middle attacks and other authentication based attacks). Of course, this is not terribly useful for stored data. That's why you should store your sensitive data in your brain, or Sealand, where it is out of reach of the court.

Burris

If MAPS lose their case against Yesmail, they could always relocate to Sealand.

HavenCo


-------

The internet's global, no one seens the difference between a site hosted in Ca, US and one in London, Uk for example. Just move the site offshore, and no US legislation can touch you. ( Havenco, anyone?)

That's why governments are afraid of the net, because it transcends their power. No longer is individuals at the mercy of government.

And if they make all ISPs block sites? (ignoring how costly this would be). Cryptography comes to the rescue, use freenet or ssh tunnels into offshore computers. Once something's on the net, it'll always be there.

Perhaps we could apply to their free colo department with a proposol for offering SSH and PGP based email services to the masses. Certainly not @havenco.com but something else could be sorted surely.

HavenCo is donating free colocation space to Non-Governmental Organizations of our choosing. In general, the types of organizations that we will want to provide hosting for are those that promote free speech promote human rights give a voice to minority and oppressed groups that otherwise may not be heard

The current issue of Wired has a list of the 40 biggest tech cities in the world (this is the issue that has Sealand as its cover story). They rated the cities by the VC coming in to the cities, the start-ups in the cities, the established tech companies in the cities, and industry ties with local colleges and universities. This doesn't quite tell you what cities will be geek friendly but it will give you a good idea of where your skills will be most wanted and a lot of the time if companies are looking for a lot of geeks they will try and make the people in the city geek friendly, especially if its a city where one of these companies employs many of the city residents.

He's refering to Sealand, a "soverign nation" off the coast of the UK. Go to Havenco to learn more.

I'm not saying that gambling and money-laundering are immoral, but they aren't on the pure altruistic level of free speech, either. Then again, Havenco makes no bones about being a for-profit company... look at those rates!

Vovida, OS VoIP
Beer recipe: free! #Source
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