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Brewing Storm: Stealth, ISPs And Copyright
Handulschteim writes: "As if nobody could have guessed, the Internet community has continued to circumvent the entertainment industry. According to this Reuters article, HavenCo has joined the action. It might be great marketing for them. But it might also be the beginning of the end if they attract the ire of their closest neighbor and its American buddies." (ruebarb contributes a link to the same story featured on MSNBC.) Since ISPs are going to face increasing pressure from the various 4-letter acronyms, it seems like the obvious next step for the the entertainment factories to lobby for would be a ban on all encrypted traffic for which no key is in escrow for easy policing.
That's just SETI@home data blocks, really! uhhhhh, digitized noise from my AM radio?
I guess there's always stenography! Of course, you still have the SIGINT that party A is sending data to party B...
Why is it not a problem for "domestic traffic"? Who do you trust - absolutely no-one!
The RIAA already got busted for price fixing recently. I wonder what other shit they're up to...
Ever notice that the black community is the only segment of america patriotic enough to riot and tear shit up until the politicians and judges get a clue. They have done this many times, fighting for the rights they feel strongly about. Nobody else has done anything since the civil war.
I have been a moderator 3 times this week. I have noticed that many comments are getting over moderated. What is wrong with the system, anyone have any insight?????????
I have already addressed this issue to people over at sealand, and even offered them some advice. Host lots and lots of good content cheaply as well, and big companies will buy server space their because of their big nice multiple connections. Then, there would be reason not to shut it down. Mix good with the bad.
Morlocks eat Eloi. Weak attempt at a troll... And if you think I'm talking about x-men, shouldn't your high school's filtering software have kept you from slashdot? Or for that matter from anything written by Huxley?
Now, on the other hand, what are they going to do about it. It would merely risk an international outcry, which I'm imagining would be fairly weak anyways
Yes, assuming the UK was taking the action, with or without pressure from the USA, any outcry would be nominal at most, this isn't a major issue to most countries and certainly not something anyone's going to go to war with the UK over (and by extension either go to war with NATO or break up NATO). If it's not the UK doing it on the other hand then there would be rather more than just an outcry, HMG would not take lightly to anyone mounting even a minor military operation that close to the UK.
Sealand is in the rather odd position of being effectively protected by the UK until such time as the UK ceases to find them amusing, at which point there really won't be anyone for them to turn to.
Key escrow was dead the second someone figured out that it would require General Motors to turn over all 50,000 Lotus Notes User IDs they had deployed.
The FBI was too worried about cryptofreaks, kiddie porn ops and terrorists, nobody thought about corporate America's bread-n-butter.
no, the savings when to the competing industry shareholders
That's right. They will write an exclusion into the law to protect business communications.
I say :P to the lot of them.
Japan might be free some day, but right now it's just less expensive than it used to be.
You see, a circle is defined as the set of all points lying in a two-dimensional plane which are equidistant from a single point, not the set of all points lying in a two-dimensional plane less than or equal to the radius r. Assuming the platform was not red to begin with, that sufficient slop is allowed to lay down non-infintesmally small drops of paint, that the surface is effectively two-dimensional, and that the concentric circles all have the same center, the parent poster's comment is sufficient to describe the requisite image for the humourous effect.
In summary: you are the diet coke of pedants - just one calorie, not pedantic enough.
- pedant nazi moderator
"no pedant for you!"
>What will happen to a slave-based economy when robots replace everybody,
>i. e., when human labor, knowledge and expertise become worthless?
Isn't it obvious? A relatively small number of individuals, I'm guessing at less than 25,000, will own everything. Those that own nothing, will have no tools to build anything that they might sell, nothing to build that someone might buy, etc etc. Some will be kept around as servants, but only for the power/humiliation of it, because machines will be so much more efficient. Others as prostitutes. Some as pets, even. Sooner or later, this will lead to genocide on a massive scale, but my guess is that will take more than a few generations. The last of the slaves might have a few hundred years, to ponder the question that you asked.
Capitalism is a closed system, and eventually, it must devolve into complete stagnation. If humans weren't the technological animals that they are, the time it would take might be so long as to seem eternal, but at this rate, I expect to see it in my lifetime.
They killed thousands of Iraqis so they could save a nickel on gas.
--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Any ISP that doesn't state that in their terms of service needs to fire their legal department, and probably upper management too. Try to find me an ISP that doesn't reserve the right to terminate accounts at any time for any reason. It's just a good idea, for the same reason supermarkets and other retail stores have little signs that say they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.
--
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Also Japan has made a concrete monolith out of a tiny island that was just about to subside into the sea so they can maintain territorial control over a vast area of sea that they want exclusive fishing rights to.
Since Sealand "isn't UK property" that's why the UK would use the Royal Marines or SAS or Royal Navy instead of Police.
Personally, I don't think a metal platform built by the UK government in the Second World War can NOT be the property of the UK, or be an independant nation-state...but that's not the issue at hand.
The issue at hand is...Sealand...what's to stop the UK government from taking them out by force? Nothing. The Royal Marines or SAS could go in there, arrest every last squatter and there is NOTHING that any other goverment could do or say about it. Well people might pipe up and whine. But Sealand isn't going to get any protection from anyone. And with the increasing Federalization of Europe...Sealand's chances are slipping away. French, Dutch...whatever links to the Internet will become irrelevant.
Yes, I'm quite aware of the fact that the electoral college elects presidents, but thats only splitting hairs. The majority did elect Al Gore. To claim otherwise is to argue about technicalities, and its those technicalities that are wrong, not the reality that the current president of the US of A was not elected by a majority. Furthermore, the Supreme Court just decided to stop counting in a close election. So, in this case, we'll frankly never know if the current president had a mandate from the people to be President, because the Supreme Court took that choice away from the people. All they had to do was say "Count em again".
Python
Python
Simple, the RIAA/MPAA and entertainment industry in general make compaign contributions, whereas LEAs and intel agencies do not. The RIAA/MPAA and entertainment industry get to call the shots, because the congress-critters have to beg them for money, whereas the LEAs and intel agencies have to beg congress for money.
Python
Python
What myth? Have you ever worked for a congress-critter? It is the people that fund a candidate that get attention. Sure, the constituents get attention, and if a large number of constituents get upset about something, the congress-critter does the right thing or gets caned. But for the most part, the apathy of the public keeps the scales nicely tipped in the favor of the big donors.
Most people just don't care enough, no matter how much you or anyone else wants to lambast them for "believing in the myth". Its not a myth, this is the way the US Congress works. If you can't get enough constituents interested in a topic, you just write the congress-critter a check and you're guaranteed an audience with him/her.
You might as well stay home on Election Day too, since you are so powerless.
LOL! What an ironic statement. In the last elections the US had some of the highest voter turnouts in decades, for all the good it did. The Majority elected one candidate, and the Supreme Court selected the other candidate.
Yeah, some power the people had that day. Thanks for the pep talk, but the US has serious problems that will not be solved by pretending that the system works, and that all we have to do is turn out to vote and send letters to our congress-critters. Did you happen to see the police state in DC on the inauguration day? And you think anyone in their right mind should not be turned off by the whole process when its pretty clear that corruption is seeping into the entire process in a way that doesn't leave any avenue for redress? The US needs serious electoral and campaign finance reform before you can even have the gall to insult someone for be disgusted at the whole thing.
Python
Python
Accept that its really a bad analogy. With a "ripped-open" envelope, you can tell its been opened and then you can, hopefully, use that law to try and find out who did it (assuming they left any useful physical evidence to trace them down). With crypto, you can't do this. Its always been possible to read poorly encrypted data without the owner being any the wiser (just look at the NSA, thats all they do). So how would you ever be able to enforce this law? Rhetorically, you can't, so its a big fat Red Herring. That law would be utterly useless. Its about the illusion of safety. The US Government would want you to think such a law would keep you safe. As if laws keep you safe now, which they don't. You have to be able to take action against a person that violates a law for it have any effect, and with crypto, its suprisingly hard to do that.
Equally, using his poor analogy, its also possible to open envelopes without leaving any traces that most people be able to detect. So, criminalizing the opening of someone elses mail is not really a good means for preventing it from being opened. It can be opened, quite easily, without the recipent or sender being any the wiser.
So even in the case of just envelopes, its a lowsy security model and of course anyone with common sense, the US government included, knows this. If you want to keep your secrets, you have to do more than just say its illegal to obtain it. This is really about the fact that the US government does not consider its citizens to have any legitimate need for protecting their privacy in any meaninful way (read: keep secrets). The US government thinks its the only ones that have "real" secrets to keep, so why would the silly little citizens of the US need real crypto? Just look at what the man is saying, basically that you and I don't need strong security models we just need weak laws that can't be enforced (read: weak security model). Envelopes and weaks laws should be good enough for us. Afterall, we don't have anything important to protect. (I could digress into the "what are you trying to hide" argument, but I doubt he's coming from there, I think he doesn't believe that)
The operative response to his analogy should have been something along the lines of "So why doesn't the US government send all of its Top Secret material via the USPS in plain old envelopes or on postcards"? And then follow that up with a "So, is the US Government the only organization with secrets that needs good protection for its secrets?" And then watch him try to equivocate his way out of that one or cave.
Bah... with the US Government, its all about double standards. They want to be able keep their secrets, even if its to the detriment of their own people, while the peasants^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H citizens have to allow the government to go on fishing expeditions into their private lives. Thats why the US Government and its elected officials need to be continuously reminded that US citizens have inalienable rights to privacy. This isn't some privilige the government can take away at a whim. If they pass laws that require the stipping away of those rights, then its a BAD law. And they need to go back and try again. Its that fundamental set of misunderstandings on the part of US officials that has created the entire crypto/CDA/DMCA/next_stupid_rights_stipping_act_he re mess.
Python
Python
Law enforcement and intelligence agencies don't have lobbying budgets, and don't make campaign contributions, where the sole purpose of "industry associations" like the MPAA and RIAA is to collectively represent the cartels' interests in politics. Also, while cops show up on the news occasionally, the ??AA member companies *are* the news (see ABCDisney, AOLTimeWarner (CNN), CBS/Viacom, etc.). No politician is willing to trash the media cartels, as long as they're dependent on them to get elected/stay in office.
If the collective tech/electronics industries weren't so cowed by the ??AA's political muscle (and deathgrip on the media), they would have kicked big media to the curb as soon as they realized that more dollars were spent on CD-R/RW drives and media last year, alone, than the entire MPAA grossed at the box office, and that unlike the MPAA, CD/DVD-R/RW sales are still growing to the tune of 10-25%/year.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Karl? Is that you?
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
For example, it is ILLEGAL in Japan to sell used video tapes, DVDs, and entertainment software
Gosh, someone better tell that to the used video store next to my house.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
No, ISP's don't want to go to court. ISP's also don't want to go out of business. If all file sharing were stopped at the ISP level, people would find new ISP's -- one's that maybe "didn't have the resources" to go after every little violation.
Fortunately, I don't have to worry about any of this. I live in Japan -- what you might call a "free" country.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
What makes it evil is that Podesta is neither stupid nor incompetent. He knows the flaws in his analogy, and intentionally blurrs what should be a strong distinction between the physical and the intellectual (or ephemeral) for the purpose of enacting laws which are unprecedented in the way they operate, and not in a good way.
I wrote parts of this stuff
And did he understand at all that the horse has left the barn already on strong crypto? This kind of thinking at the highest levels of government (Didn't Web Hubbel have a hand in Clinton administration crypto policy? Ugh!) is scary.
I wrote parts of this stuff
... which is far less effective than threatening ISPs - one IPS can have hundereds or thousands of such customers.
But it does not mean they (studios, ...) wont do it - threatening users directly - they have a LOT of money.
hany
Acttually, more worrying than this is that, let's say you get kicked off a small mom & pop ISP because they think you were trading something you weren't. To use your example, let's say you were sending home movies to your grandparents, but they kicked you anyway.
Who's really left in the ISP business? Right now it's boiling down to AOL/TW and a bunch of large phone companies. Eventually those who are providing you access will be those who want to stop you from doing anything with their content, so even though they have the 'will' to fight, they're obviously not going to fight themselves.
So, hold on to your small ISP for as long as possible, but eventually all content will be megacorp controlled.
Just to let everyone know how things are going, since I'm sure people will ask:
HavenCo has been doing pretty well recently -- the dotcom funding crisis means we're getting a lot more resumes, although we're not actively hiring.
We're pretty much breakeven now, which is quite a relief given the current funding environment.
We're focusing on a few key markets:
* financial information and services (payment systems, stock information, etc.)
* gaming (aka gambling)
* outsourced email/IM/file servers, subpoena proof
* reseller/VAR/OEM packages -- (ISPs that want to move certain clients offshore, ASPs, etc.)
AFAIK fairtunes and other music services are still underway, but HavenCo itself isn't that actively involved in them. While I'm sure we can weather any storm caused by hosting an opennap server or other controversial information, it is simply better business for us to go after higher-paying, zero-hassle, high value financial and gaming servers.
I apologize for not updating the website -- we've been very busy, and I have a new site with lots of photos and everyone else sitting in cvs, and at a staging URL, but it's not live yet. Hopefully soon, but unlike a lot of companies now on fuckedcompany, we're spending more time on actually selling products and supporting customers than on flashy websites...
We have a pretty good referral program now, which hasn't been publicized or put back on the old website -- bring us a customer, and when they pay their sixth month's colo fee, you get it.
I also got some netra X1's, and would like to host more of them -- we're discounting them substantially, since they're so easy to host, and people run solaris, netbsd, or sparclinux on them, rather than windows, saving us a bunch of hassle. We're charging about USD 6000/year to host on an X1 with minimal bandwidth, additional bandwidth to be purchased separately, vs. about USD 1500/month for a 1U or 2U intel/etc. type server with
much more bandwidth.
sales@havenco.com has info, of course. Buy servers, save money in regulatory and tax issues, and enable me to buy better food for Sealanders, and maybe a sushi chef.
It's pretty obvious where we stand on free speech, privacy, copyright, etc. issues, but unfortunately we have a duty to shareholders, and the "donate service to all sorts of cool free projects, bring a bunch of controversy, earn the hatred of the established media industry, etc." is just not good business practice for HavenCo, regardless of what the Sealand Government wants to do. They are from a pirate radio background, after all!
Interesting but fairly random stuff:
I was actually speaking at the Jupiter Plug-In Europe conference with Aram, the analyst quoted in that piece -- he's a really interesting guy who taught me things about Napster I didn't know! I also met Bruce Ward of NetPD, who turns out to be much cooler in person than one would expect -- I totally respect his/NetPD's technical competence, and if anyone needs to track down child pornography or other illegal use of their own network, I'd definitely recommend NetPD. After meeting a bunch of music industry people, ranging from lawyers to artists (Howie B. even gave me his new unreleased album, which I promptly mp3'd and put on my rio...it's *excellent*, and speaking of rio, the CEO of Sonicblue was there, and everyone standing around the table with him pulled out different generations of rio!). Barcelona, by the way, kicks ass -- all the goodness of France and of Spain, combined. I saw a yacht in the bay which was bigger than Sealand!
I was in San Francisco for RSA -- I'll be in Vegas for BlackHat and Defcon, but not much other than some events in Europe before then. Alas, 13 hour plane trips kind of suck. I had sushi just about every day. It was good. I was also on techtv, which people may have seen. Makeup artists are good at making ultra-pale geeks look suntanned.
I'm working on some software and papers, will probably set up a personal havenco page to post them. So much to do, so little time.
China and the former Soviet Union practiced communism. Socialism is practiced by places like France and Sweden, and it's not generally associated with oppression. In fact, I would argue that it's associated with less oppression than capitalism, as stuff like the events of The Grapes of Wrath generally don't happen under socialist societies.
The problem with that is that they are a soveriegn nation. So effectively, the waters immediatly around/under them are not in fact international waters, but SeaHaven waters. You can't just go around blowing stuff up on the property of other nations. Now, on the other hand, what are they going to do about it. It would merely risk an international outcry, which I'm imagining would be fairly weak anyways.
Food: It's whats for dinner
So don't evacuate. Would the US kill people because they allow others to break a copyright law?
I would like to see what the rest of the world would think of *that*.
Actually, for Constitutional freedoms, I'd suggest you join the Constitution Party.
I'm just finishing a paper about the DMCA for a Political Science course. The DMCA was primarily crafted to implement the WIPO treaty. The WIPO treaty, in turn, is primarily intended to spread the concept of copyright that American corporations have to other countries (mainly, China). It's because of the huge amount of unauthorized copying going on in China. Of course, cracking down on Napster et al is another reason. ;-)
To quote the oft-used cliche, The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. However, the truth in that statement comes from the inherent chaos and lack of central control, not from laws protecting speech.
P2P software such as OpenNAP will survive, but not because of Sealand. When Sealand opens a napster server the RIAA will send them a polite letter asking them to turn if off. They will not comply. Then the RIAA will send a similar letter to Sealand's ISP's - and Sealand will find themselves disconnected. ISP's are businesses and their duty is to increase shareholder value, not to protect free speech. (hint: fighting the RIAA in court doesn't increase shareholder value)
Now, as I was saying, OpenNAP will survive. Think about how long it takes someone to configure an OpenNAP server and how long it takes the RIAA to litigate one out of existance. Perhaps the next linux worm's payload will be that it assembles an OpenNAP server network, who knows...
As for encryption regulations, timothy's comment is sensationalist crap. Will politicians continue to outlaw things like strong encryption in order to save the children or something? Yes. Will the courts throw out the worst of them? Yes. Will it make any significant impact on the real world? No. In fact, I have a feeling that if they outlawed encryption actual use of it would increase.
I work for a financial firm and their client banks who handle trillions of dollars per year and its ALL in encrypted traffic. Some transfers are small and some transfers are hundred's of megabytes in length.
There is no way that ANY AA has the clout to make my employer or its clients hand over any keys. Fugged aboud id!
The AAs come to the banks for money, not the othe way around, and if they step on the bankers' toes, they'll disappear like McCarthy did when he went after the army. Forgotten but not gone.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
So much for the expert -- Aircraft Carriers, Destroyers, etc., are most certainly considered sovreign territory. I have heard a US Navy Admiral describe them as "the largest mobile piece of the United States in the world".
The ship may be soverign but it is not its own country. It belongs to the US and is governed by the laws of the US and have all the priveledges the US has under International law and treaties.
I wouldn't worry about this too much - after all, ISPs can't hunt down new-account-every-day spammers as it is. Once Freenet/Gnutella adapt to using a new account every week, you'll see the same thing going on.
OTOH, there's a lot more money in the movie industry than there is in the anti-spam brigade.
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Similar to the music industry, a movie may cost 10's or 100's of millions of $$ to make, but after release the studios do their damndest to cook the books to show that no money was made, so as to lower any possible payments to artists, actors -- anybody with a percentage in their contracts.
Well, apparently, you only have to fool the majority of people for a little while.
However, those people with a half-a-clue are realising that alternative distribution models exists as software moves the relative power back to the artists and performers away from promoters and managers (unless they consolidate their distirbution channels and demand payola aka gateway fees). So what is likely to happen? I nthe long run you'll probably see more variety and different intermediatories but in the short term, its likely to be a scorched earth policy with ISPs being in the front line trenches squeezed between content holders (who want to pass the cost of enforcement onto someone else ... e.g. public law) and communications infrastructure providers who want to extract every last cent from providing bandwidth. In short the mom and pop UUCP and message boards are going to disappear as they don't have the intellectual or financial firepower to survive the coming firestorm (MS .NET initiative notwithstanding).
Note that this is not new. Whenever a scarce resource becomes cheap, whoever's interest buildt on faulty assumptions starts screaming. For example, when radio stations were limited in NZ several decades ago, some entrepreneurs put raio masts on a ship outside the nautical exclusion zones and beamed "pirate" broadcsts inland. The internet is even easier as the infrastructure is outside the immediate juristiction and you cannot restrict people moving around except through controlling their access software (cough*AOL-AIM*cough).
Maybe, just maybe, companies will actually support grass-roots artistic development instead of flogging over-hyped teenage boppers or overpriced dead rockers. On the other hand, cynics would note that money talks, bullshit walks.
LL
It's the home video market that enables studios to make blockbuster films with extravagant budgets. Without home video we get small films like El Mariachi instead of epics like Lawrence of Arabia or Episode I. It's going to limit the kinds of films that studios can make. Perhaps not a bad thing, because we don't get as many Ishtar and Waterworld fiascos either...
Well, but just barely. Check out this RIAA market report and see in 2000 the full-length CD market was up just 0.4% over 1999 in units shipped. That's very small growth compared to previous years (In 1999 the growth was 10.8%, see link for details). So in fact last year was the second worst in the past decade.
Full length CD's make up the bulk of the market, of course singles and cassettes and LP's are all in sharp decline.
Would you want to be in a business with 0.4% growth?
Blockbuster movies cost 10's or 100's of millions of dollars to make, but studios rarely make a profit on US boxoffice returns alone. True, they usually net a little something after international distribution. But the real profit in the business is home video rentals and sales.
So if Joe Sixpack can download a movie, and it's reasonably fast, and doesn't cost a lot to store on his drive (or burn to a CD-R/DVD-R), then he WILL download that song or movie. Right?
And if a major movie studio invests $100 million in a summer blockbuster, but when the DVD comes out it's promptly pirated and P2P'ed all over the internet for free, then video rentals go down the toilet. And ultimately (here's the conceptual leap) the studio stops making movies because there's no way to be a profitable studio if you take home video out of the equation. Period.
So P2P sharing via Napster/Gnutella is the virus that kills its host.
Or am I wrong? Please tell me I am, since otherwise I am going to be out of a job.
there is no way I am going to return the favor by doing something that costs me 15,000 votes, no matter how corrupt I am.
I agree with most of your post, but here you're making the big assumption that you've got at least 15,000 constituents actually paying attention to what you're doing.
When you signed up with your ISP did you sign a contract? I didn't. Not for any of my ISPs. One was five years ago - before this lawsuit mania. The cable ISP was two years ago and forgot to bring a contract when delivering the cable modem - I signed a receipt for the modem but that's it.
The other ISP I signed up for I did over the phone with a credit card. With them, all I was told was that time was unlimited. That's it. No mention of any limitations.
The Cable ISP's installer at least told me about some restrictions (no servers) but I could get around most of that because his wording was really vague. (He didn't read the contract, just said "We don't allow x, y, and z." Without any attempt at definition... ICQ can operate as a peer-to-peer server, is that covered?
The other ISP doesn't even have that to go on. They didn't tell me any restrictions. If they terminate my account without warning (ie, they can refuse to renew it, but little else) I can sue them for a few things. (All fairly small, related to the costs of lost business and finding a new ISP.)
Does anyone here actually have a binding contract with their ISP?
btw: Contracts that disclaim all responsibility and state that service may be terminated at any time, etc. are not valid. (A service that can be terminated at any time is of no value, and a contract for a service of no value isn't valid.)
That's Canadian law, and a rough view of it.
In the case of food, it is obvious that the land and plant life produces food. Whether humans help or hinder the process over generational time is a question for another time and place, though it certainly depends on how and to what purpose.
Allow me to emphasize that the original poster arguing for a parcel of land, which is clearly not man-made, to be granted to persons in perpetuity, with the only levy being the requirement to do something with it. I will not accept the argument that any one or more of several deities constructed that land or parceled it out to their chosen people, due to the nearly universal tendency for such deities to agree exactly with the speaker appealing to a deity's authority. It is exactly these theological arguments that lead directly to the tiresome Israel-Palestine pissing match.
Even if he were arguing for birthrights other than land, and assuming the timeless social ideals of advancing human knowledge and respect for others, it makes more sense to allow all persons unfettered access to the elements of an independently productive life (global maximum) than to restrict the elements of independent life to a select class and enforce the dependent existence of a dependent class on the independent gatekeepers (local maxima). Wisdom new and old warns frequently of the dangers of local maxima. While the most strenuous battles against a global maximum are fought by those who have reached a local maximum, the most visible and loudest supporters of the local maximum are those who simply fancy themselves one but have little likelihood of achieving that goal.
I close by frankly stating that your attitudes toward other human beings pose a sufficient danger to civil society to merit institutionalization and heavy drugs that we on the outside only dream of, whether you are a troll or True Believer.
-jhp
/. -- the Free Republic of technology.
I read that HavenCo has multiple redundant connections to three or four separate companies in separate countries. I know at least France and Belgium have connections to Sealand. There's probably also a redundant satellite connection.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
The easiest way to solve this problem is by supporting & giving money to groups like the EFF who'll go to court on behalf of the little ISP, and help them fight.
For communications freedom support the EFF, for Constitutional freedoms join the ACLU. They're both very necessary
Thalia
The problem is that ISP's don't want to go to court. They can be threatened by the MPAA, and they're likely to cave, because if they don't, they'll end up spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on attorney fees. And most of them can't afford to do that.
But the truly odd part of the story is that it says that ExciteAtHome has responded by sending e-mails telling Gnutella users their services will be terminated within 24 hours if their alleged movie sharing continues. Now, how "alleged movie sharing" continues is beyond me. How do they know that folks are sharing copyrighted movies? Maybe they're sending each other something else that requires large files. Maybe it's home movies.
There really isn't a business reason for the ISP to protect the user. After all, they don't have a time-based contract. The user can't sue the ISP (I think) for terminating them illegally, unless the ISP refuses to return any prepaid moneys or deposits.
Review your ISP contract. I bet it allows your ISP to terminate you "at will." But if it doesn't, the subscriber who hasn't been using it for illegal stuff and is terminated should sue. A few lawsuits like that, and ISPs will think twice about just kicking users off based on a nasty-gram from the MPAA or RIAA.
Thalia
Wouldn't that just make lots of big red dots? Don't alternating concentric circles of white have to be used as well?
Or maybe big red dots is what you meant...dot-com and all that?
;)
KM
Kinda like Moe, but just a little more Kool
You can take comfort from having inspired me to such great heights. I stand on the shoulders of Giants.
--
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Ponderous Microsoft PR Machine Moves Into Action...
"Why Microsoft, of course! It's what customers want! Millions of people round the world already trust us with their data, storing their data in our proprietary but standards-loving formats (heck, even KOffice will import it!), on our proprietary but interoperable (no, I did NOT say 'inoperable'!) OSs! We are customer-focused. We LOVE our customers! It's a veritable love-fest here in Redmond!"
Whoops, sorry, I'm a bit too close to Redmond to pass up a rant opportunity. I look out the window of my office, and see a foul dark cloud hanging over Mordor, er, Redmond; I get chills of fear.
--
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I wouldn't say that capitalism is inherently a slave system... G.K.Chesterton, for example, had a vision of distributed property ownership, called Distributism (?), which basically addresses a major problem of today: the centralization of property and wealth. He was seeing this almost a century ago, so it's not a new problem.
Right now in the US we have the Democrats, who love the state, working closely with Republicans, who love big business. Now both parties love both--what a deadly combo! Is there some way to slay this Statist Beast without a larger Statist Beast?
--
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
It's not quite true that the UK *government* recognised Sealand. A particular court (i.e. part of the UK *judiciary*) implicitly did so.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Intellectual property laws exist only because capitalism is a slavery system.
Balls.
Our livelihood depends on working for others so we can pay our taxes.
Okay, Mr. Smarty, move out someplace and don't interact with anyone, but be totally self-sufficient. Because when you trade with people, you are "working for others."
We should all demand a truly free system where everybody is guaranteed to inherit income property by virtue of being human, a piece of the pie, so to speak.
Uh, you demand that. I'll be asking for actual freedom, not slavery as you are. You want everyone to have "a piece of the pie" "by virtue of being human." Something for nothing? Who's going to provide the something? The people making it. Who's going to provide the nothing? The people receiving the something under your black-is-white system.
This is not a handout from the government
Oh, really. Who's it from, then?
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Sealand authorities painted several large patterns consisting of concentric red circles on their island.
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Several terabytes of pseudo-random numbers? ;-)
At least, nothing that can be debated without the debaters being threatened by lawyers.
> The only thing that is needed to produce real art is the artist and the consumer, in this case the listener. Most everything else [e.g. RIAA] is excess baggage.
Four words for you: "I want my MTV".
Dire Straits was poking fun at themselves and the rest of Top-40. Unfortunately, they were also right.
Money for nothin', indeed.
If you're trying to set up a data haven for illegal things, doing it in some random country through bribery and other traditional techniques would be far easier than physically assaulting Sealand
Ok, I'm thinking about what sort of entities would already be taking advantage of a data haven... haven't really come up with much, sorry. What does a given country or company have to gain by capturing a "data haven" at this point in the history of the internet, honestly?
I think you are greatly overromanticizing the importance and protection of Sealand. Sure things have worked out well so far, but I doubt any country would stand up for them, which means a single destroyer class ship is capable of "conquering" it. While there may be connections to positions of power in Britain, those are severely weakened by the departure of its founder.
Yea it's nice to be your own country, but the flip side of that coin is that NO ONE else in the world is obligated to protect you.
I expect that the only reason (apart from some sterling bravado in the 1978 war) Sealand is safe so far is that it hasn't been a big enough thorn in anyone's side to pluck out.
And finally ask yourself this: If the big media are "small potatoes" why was Jon Johansen apprehended?
We may never know, but we can make an awfully good guess. Based on independent recounts of the Florida ballots, it is pretty clear that if the US Supreme Court had not stepped in, and the Florida Supreme Court's recount order had been carried out, Bush still would have won.
The problem is that 'The Supreme Court stole the election' is now an article of faith among many disappointed voters, and no amount of evidence will persuade them otherwise.
C&D - I had it first. See you in court.
Mike.
--Ask a silly person, get a silly answer.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Or...
The greater you tighter your grip, the more galaxies will slip through your fingers.
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
So much for the ban.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
The thought businesses would agree to the RIAA or any other organization having exclusive rights to screen private information for potential copyright violations will never fly.
Do you really think IBM or Chevron will agree to anything that gives the RIAA permission to read their email?
They will shit on this quicker than seagulls at a beachside picnic.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Because others were tested and found to be possessing the degenerate gene sequence that cause them to want to stop encryption.
Everyone knows they're not responsible for such defects but they are still susceptible to their influence.
--end sarcasm
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
HavenCo claims that they're perfect for this stuff because they're in Sealand, but despite legios on Cryptnomicon fans slavering at the potential of this data haven, the simple fact of the matter is that HavenCo simply does not have enough bandwidth.
The articles are about thwarting media companies. By virtue of the nature of the media, you must have thick, fat pipes to run your data through, and HavenCo simply cannot do this with their current or prospective future systems.
Their only economical way to become a player would be to load up on satellite transmitters, and even that could be ambushed by mega-companies simply cutting off access upstream. All it takes is one TimeWarnerMcdonaldsSony conglomerate to stop accepting packets from electronic 'disputed zones' to trample this business model.
I'm not saying these companies should stop trying, but using hype to sell abilities you don't have is harmful to your credibility and reduces data havens to science fiction staple.
... is yet another "Zero knowledge system". We've got enough already -- let's stick with what's out there. Otherwise we'll end up with these new entities coming into that field with commercial interests of their own, not necessarily in tune with the original intent/philosophy.
What!? Within minutes of where I work in Tokyo there are multistory department buildings devoted solely to selling used video tapes, DVDs and entertainment software, I've bought quite a few myself. There are, however, restrictions on how recently released used stuff may be (usually no newer than 1-2 years), which are usually respected as part of an agreement between the content production and retail industries.
Cheers,
-j.
Look's like the term four-letter-word is getting a whole new meaning.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
Correct... I did overgeneralize. My appologies.
-- kwashiorkor --
Leaps in Logic
should not be confused with
-- kwashiorkor --
Leaps in Logic
should not be confused with
Jumping to Conclusions.
Hmmm... as a Canadian, I seem unable to recall the last time our government ever had a problem with the exporting and/or use of encryption by the general populace.
In fact, check out OpenBSD, or JAWS technology. Also, check out this article which gives a pretty decent overview of the electronic information policies of various countries.
I think you mean "Americans", our southerly neighbours.
-- kwashiorkor --
Leaps in Logic
should not be confused with
-- kwashiorkor --
Leaps in Logic
should not be confused with
Jumping to Conclusions.
Say hello to Mr. Dongle.
Dongles aren't used now because they are slightly annoying, and the content-owners don't want to piss off the average user. At some point, rapidly approaching, the savings from stopping widespread infringement will be worth the loss from pissing off people with dongles.
And guess what...almost all PCs have USB, which gets rid of one of the major hassles with dongles.
Sure hope the dongle companies provide Linux versions.
I do! :)
A few months back I got really guilty and registered/deleted all of the software on my machine.
Who cares what they're armed with? Any first world nation that decided they didn't like them could lob one bomb, and bye bye Sealand. Wouldn't even have to go nuclear.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Clarification: Parent code fragment assumes that datatype 'int' has at least 2049 bits of unsigned integer precision (j holds values from 0 to 2^2048 and is used as an int in printf()). This is not feasible on any current hardware.
Will I retire or break 10K?
IANAL, but if they gave me unlimited access, including no bandwidth restrictions
What if no ISP in your town makes such a contract available?
Will I retire or break 10K?
usually respected as part of an agreement between the content production and retail industries.
The requirement of permission (your "agreement") from the copyright owner to deal in used entertainment media means there are tall barriers to entry to the market ("We have exclusive rights to Sony media in this market; no soup for you").
Will I retire or break 10K?
Even then, correct me if im wrong, but I can go and code a program that utilizies 1024 bit encryption and that is still legal too. As long as i do not export it. Isn't it?
Restrictions on retail software and Free software (yes, there is much overlap) have been greatly relaxed. If you write a Free crypto library, you can release the source code without too much red tape (mostly it's just a fax to BXA).
(Read More... at the Bureau of Export Administration)Will I retire or break 10K?
Morlocks eat Eloi
Not after the conclusion of The Time Machine . Extrapolating from the events of the story, the Eloi (who look like Precious Moments figurines) rediscover fire and kick the Morlocks to high heck.
shouldn't your high school's filtering software have kept you from slashdot?
Schools are starting to drop censorware because they're finding that it just doesn't work as advertised.
Will I retire or break 10K?
And tell what is so wrong about protecting ones revenue? I mean, if we think that making profit is illegal
The existence of the Free Software Movement (and its children Free Music, Free Documentation, etc.) and of the Street Performer Protocol (release the teaser, take orders for the full version, release the full version once you have enough orders) show that money can be made in the content industry without restrictions against sharing the product.
Will I retire or break 10K?
How is releasing the teaser different from all these free demos commercial companies make available to the public ?
The difference is that the full version is shipped only when there are enough paid orders for the full version to ensure that the developers can eat; once the first shipment is out, the advantage of buying the CD is that you get tech support and access to fast servers on which to play the game.
Come on, you know damn well that if people can download programs or copy music CDs from their friends without breaking the law, it will be end of industry.
It will be the end of the twentieth-century music industry as we know it, but not the end of making a living off recorded music. MP3.com is already starting to go this way (payback for playback, and D.A.M. CDs).
Will I retire or break 10K?
If all file sharing were stopped at the ISP level, people would find new ISP's
Once you're booted off both your local cable provider and DSL provider for running a bandwidth-hogging server (even if you're serving up Free content) on their severly oversold network, the only option left is to move to another area. This can cost six figures (or, in your case, eight Japanese figures).
I don't have to worry about any of this. I live in Japan
Whose copyright law doesn't even recognize a right of "first sale." For example, it is ILLEGAL in Japan to sell used video tapes, DVDs, and entertainment software.
Will I retire or break 10K?
a ban on all encrypted traffic for which no key is in escrow for easy policing.
...
Great idea! I know I've got a patent application around here somwhere
question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
then what makes you think RIAA / MPAA can succeed by persuading congress with the argument that the latest movies are being copied illegaly?
Sorry to say this, but they're not using arguments, they're using MONEY, which is the most persuasive argument of all for a Congresscritter. The Intelligence agencies et al were relying on old-fashioned arguments and words and things, and most Representatives can't sit still long enough to listen. Money, however, speaks very fast and in very small words (like "one" and "zero" - lots and lots of "zeros").
question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
I don't think you understand. It's not who elects them, it's who funds them.
This isn't as easy as it sounds, what is to stop Sealand from using RFC1149?
Or will the world's population of pigeons mysteriously become extinct?
Considering that the European Community is very suspicious of the so-called Epsilon system spying on its businesses...
BTW, it's Echelon not Epsilon.
"Mary had a crypto key, she kept it in escrow, and everything that Mary said, the Feds were sure to know."
"it seems like the obvious next step for the the entertainment factories to lobby for would be a ban on all encrypted traffic for which no key is in escrow for easy policing."
Hang on: The NSA, FBI, CIA, DEA etc etc have lobbied congress for over a decade or so to try and get un-escrowed crypto banned and have failed miserably in all attempts. I'd recommend the excellent book Privacy on the Line by Diffie and Landau for a complete review of the history of escrow in America.
They also lobbied ANSI to get Clipper escrowed technology implemented in banking systems in place of triple-DES but failed miserably.
If the very influencial LEA and Intel agencies failed to convince the US legislature / ANSI using the Four Horsemen argument (e.g. that nuclear terrorists, child pornographers, money launderers, and drug dealers, would flourish if crypto remained freely available) then what makes you think RIAA / MPAA can succeed by persuading congress with the argument that the latest movies are being copied illegaly?
Suddenly my permanent .sig is on-topic ;)
"Mary had a crypto key, she kept it in escrow, and everything that Mary said, the Feds were sure to know."
Is that why use North Americans can use 128-bit encryption, but only allowed to export 56-bit? I would have thought they'd have just told everybody to use 56-bit.
This information is out of date - companies can now export 128-bit encryption to non-embargoed countries (see for example here).
"Mary had a crypto key, she kept it in escrow, and everything that Mary said, the Feds were sure to know."
Can we be a little bit more extreme, please?
"a ban on all encrypted traffic for which no key is in escrow for easy policing."
There just simply was not nearly enough hyperbole in that statement!
What do we want? MORE HYSTERIA!
When do we want it? NOW!
There is no need to bomb anything and get into an argument, just 'accidentally' crash something into one of their ageing concrete supports and helpfully assist with the evacuation into custody for breaking the law of whichever country they evacuate to.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
And I, for one, would not disagree with anyone who felt that way. No, I am not black.
You could've hired me.
Maybe. I think the out right discounting of possibilities such as time travel to be short sighted (considering our present knowledge). Beside, you have much less credibily than Hawking :)
"Drug related crime" is a misnomer, "prohibition related crime" is the more accurate and correct phrase.
What are you trying to say? Popper was a philosopher, Hawking an astro-physicist. Come on, your going off on some sort of tangent.
"Drug related crime" is a misnomer, "prohibition related crime" is the more accurate and correct phrase.
U.S. Gov't wants to ban everything, encryption-wise, that they do not have a back door for. The MPAA, RIAA, LMNOPA, et al want to ban encryption of which THEY don't have back doors to. Seems Joe User is just about screwed no matter which way it goes. The Federal Gov't will just not allow them to BE an ISP or the TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms, four this time) will SUE them until they give in or go broke, whichever is fine with them.
Just say no to back door mandates.
DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
But the analogy isn't quite the same. We're not out to require that music be free. We just want to be able to do with our property whatever we wish. A better analogy would be if you needed to purchase a given piece of food only once, and thereafter could replicate it any number of times. Share it with your friends, do whatever. This is in all likelyhood a Good Thing. Granted, the obesity problem will get worse, but it's better than starvation by the poor. The food industry would of course rebel at this. They would demand that in the face of changing circumstances (food no longer being a scarce commodity) and public interest (End world hunger! Rah, rah, rah...) that the government maintain their income.
Incidentally, that Heinlein quote was the court argument of the inventor of a machine that determined when a human being would die. He was being sued by life insurance companies at the time.
--
Dyolf Knip
There's a problem, though. What kind of pressure are the industries going to exert? They apparently don't think that technical solutions by themselves will suffice (probably correct in that regard, since SDMI has worked so well), so they also resort to legal pressure. Hence the DMCA.
Really, the whole cause of these problems is the government giving legal force to the demands of the media industries.
There's a Heinlein quote that describes the situation perfectly: "There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law."
--
Dyolf Knip
OR maybe I'll just e-mail them to you. All of them. And encourage all my friends to do the same.
Is it not obvious to nearly everybody that cutting HavenCo off from the rest of the net would be a very easy thing to accomplish, if the US and/or UK cared enough to do so?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
People really need to get past this myth.
The only reason why politicians accept funding is so they can spend it persuading people to vote for them.
According to a recent column I saw in Newsweek, the typical Congressional candidate spends about $3.00 per vote. For some sentators, it has been as high as $7.00 per vote.
So, if you make me a donation of $30,000 (actually, you can't make a donation that large to me under current campaign finance law... but you can donate that to my party or spend it on ads bashing my opponent), there is no way I am going to return the favor by doing something that costs me 15,000 votes, no matter how corrupt I am.
Unfortunately, people with your attitude never bother to let your elected leaders know what it is that you want. When that Big Donor tells them that Bill x is a Good Thing, and they are not hearing otherwise from their constituents, they are more likely to listen to the guy who is helping their next campaign.
But hey, you just go ahead and keep telling yourself how 1337 you are for knowing better than to bother. You might as well stay home on Election Day too, since you are so powerless.
Meanwhile, pardon the rest of us while we continue to tilt at windmills, blissfully unaware of the hopelessness of our situation.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
In an earlier thread someone posted the following:
Why would individuals encrypt their emails and other correspondence to each other? What is the rational explanation? The only reason I can see for day-to-day use of encryption is personal emails is that you have something to hide or you have a bad case of paranoia. No offence people - but what makes what you say so interesting that you are so concerned about other people reading it? If you are doing something illegal, or you are concerned about maintaining secrecy because other people may steal your original (and so far unpatented) ideas then maybe there is a point - but I have met some people who refuse to exchange email unless it is PGP encrypted - what's up with that?
My response was:
The issue is one of Privacy.
If you do not belive in privacy, then I can recommend a glass house for you.
After all, you are not doing anything illegal? And if all houses were made of glass we would be able to catch criminals alot easier. We could just watch them all of the time with TV cameras.
What are you doing that is so important that it would require secrecy and privacy 24 hours a day? You must have a criminal frame of mind, not wanting to live in a glass house. This obsession with privacy is merely paranoia, y'know, and is easily fixed with one of several medications. Let us recommend a nice doctor who would be very willing to help you with medications.
I think this is very easily applicable to the Media companies. Let's open all of the books of all of the companies, and of all of the executives, because after all, They have nothing to hide at all, Right? Right?
[There have been so many rumors of associations with criminal elements, we need to make sure that everything is on the up and up]
What is good for the goose is good for the gander. The Media Moguls deserve the Glass House treatment. Since they are acting in a way that seems so criminal to many of us, how about actually investigating them for other crimes? What are the odds that someone would find something?
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
OR..
In news today an American spy plane crashed into the territory of Sealand destroying it completely
George W Bush is reported as saying "While I am sad that Sealand is no longer around I have to admit I'd always preferred Disneyworld."
no sig.
This may not be a big problem for domestic network traffic, but it becomes a huge problem for international traffic.
Considering that the European Community is very suspicious of the so-called Epsilon system spying on its businesses, how likely are they to trust keys that are escrowed in the US for doing business with Europe? Of course, the sword cuts both ways.
No one should trust encryption key escrow anymore than they should trust the government to have all the guns. I guess that statement only applies to the US, just try to take away guns from US citizens! People should react the same way to the privacy rape thats going on now.
Telephone fraud is very commen, yet the phone companies still keep installing large numbers of phones in very starnge places. Newspapers still allow ad's like make thousands stuffing envelopes, when it's been proven over and over that it's a scam.
But I guess the only real difference is phone and newspapers are owned by the same people who own the record labels and studios.
By definition, a government has no conscience. Sometimes it has a policy, but nothing more. - Albert Camus
The latin american community in Miami would probably take offense to that comment.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Mod this up & call the NRA
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
In an information age, maybe the information should be "free".
Free in the sense the creator of the idea gets a limited monopoly on said idea, limited to about 10 years, and after the time ends, it becomes public domain.
I understand such a statement undermines the economic structure we have now, but in the past IP laws did not last as long as they do nowadays and everything worked just fine.
People will survive, books will still be written, music will still be produced; they were in the past and we will all move on. Trying to control all the information will provide to costly to our diginity and it will take away from time we could be working towards other ends.
I doubt the people starving to death in the USA and the world have much interest in this debate. Maybe they should. The RIAA, the MPAA and others are dropping millions of dollars into lawsuits. Maybe that money could be used elsewhere.
"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.
Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property." - Thomas Jefferson
[rant]
Oh please. This is such typical drivel:
"Capitalism is a slavery system" "We want a truly free system" "bla bla bla bla bla"
How about you try being realistic? Instead of whining, in cliche terms about how bad things supposedly are, why don't you try to change things? And by change things, I don't mean rioting in the streets and overturning cars and smashing shop windows in the name of "righteous protest." I'm no huge fan of capitalism, but all-in-all, I feel it works for me better than so-called "socialism," the likes of which exist in China and in the former Soviet Union, would. It certainly works better for me than so-called anarchy, where everyone is "free to do what they want..." including rob my house and enslave me.
Instead of demonizing capitalism with canned slogans, try to change the world by envisioning a truly better way of life, and not in the broad, vague, unreasonable, and utopian terms you've stated here.
The issue at hand, anyways, is privacy. Without privacy, you wouldn't even be able to post this kind of thing, so instead of screaming about "slave systems," fight for your right to say what's on your mind, or send send encrypted email. I guarantee you'll accomplish much more for the good of yourself and mankind-at-large fighting specific grievances than advancing vague ideologies.
[/rant]
"Cut word lines. Cut music lines. Smash the control images. Smash the control machine." - William S. Burroughs
"Cut word lines. Cut music lines. Smash the control images. Smash the control machine." - William S. Burroughs
Secondly, ideals are just that, ideals. Utopian socialism died (or should have) in the 19th century. Communism will never work because the vast majority of people simply do not want it.
Thirdly, if you'd bothered to read what I said, it pretty clearly states that "I'm no huge fan of capitalism...", in fact, you included that line in your caption... where's the 'black and white' drawing of lines again?
Fourth, if you read the original post, it gushes on about all sorts of sloganistic crap like "Capitalism is slavery!" and "No more welfare!" and other things that are not only somewhat vague in their meaning, but entirely vague on how said poster plans to implement these kinds of wonderful reforms... Radicals (and reactionaries) always forget about that part when they come into power. The Bolsheviks had to keep on a huge portion of the Tsarist buerocracy simply because they themselves had no idea how to get things done.
So... please, before you go off trying to paint me as a "tool of the man," why don't you get your face out of Chomsky or whatever firebrand-of-the-day is popular, and *THINK* about the issues, instead of issuing kneejerk statements about your opponents being drones, and touting your own supposed moral superiority. Your whole attitude is really faux-Socratic.
"Cut word lines. Cut music lines. Smash the control images. Smash the control machine." - William S. Burroughs
The article mentions only that HavenCo is "developing platforms for anonymous activity", but then the rest of the article is about file sharing of music/movies. That seems to imply that HavenCo is somehow involved in file sharing (as does the summary here, but we know how accurate that is).
Does anyone know if HavenCo actually has any involvement in file sharing?
I say we need to stand up against the corporate monopolies and start our own campaign against the rape of our constitution. Most of us geeks are content to sit back and bask in the false sense of security provided by our ROT-13 and PGP keys, while all the while, the corporate superpowers are documenting our evasiveness and using it as reason to pass even more restrictive legislation.
Stop pussyfooting around the issue, and send a letter to YOUR government representative today. Request, nay DEMAND that information be free, and that our rights of ownership are stripped away from the corporate behemoths and restored to the hands of the common man. Remember, WE are the ones who elected these people, and WE are the ones who will decide if they are re-elected, so they have a great incentive to heed our demands.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
I seem to remember that the UK expanded its territorial waters a bit, sometime after Sealand was claimed and became a sovereign nation. The net effect is that Sealand is still not part of the UK, but anyone who wants to attack Sealand is going to have to mess with the British first. Unless of course it's the British doing the attacking.
Further information on this topic may be found here.
Umm, anyone happen to know the legal issues of violating the soveriegn territory of an island that is sunk or sinking? I mean, if it doesn't exist anymore, how would you be in their waters? :-)
How much of the internet's backbone lies geographically within the United States?
Anybody see where I'm going with this?
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Err, for obvious reasons HavenCo doesn't discuss who their clients are, but consider the political and diplomatic muscle it took for them to reach their current status. Consider how much money just maintaining the physical plant and all that armed security (armed with what? Don't even ask)entails. Think about what sorts of entities would *already* be taking advantage of a "data haven". Then ask yourself if you really think it would be that easy to roll over Prince Roy, or cut off Sealand. In the leagues they play in, "big media" is small potatoes. --Dave Rickey
Until the people decide (the only body allowed to decide, according to the constitution) en masse that they want to change from a free society to a police-state, run by corps with lots of money, then there really isn't anything to debate here, is there?
I think it is ludicrous to believe that this is what the people of this nation would want: to give up freedom so some out dated, over advertising, overbearing corporation can sell us something we don't really need: their prepackaged version of somebody else's idea of art.
The only thing that is needed to produce real art is the artist and the consumer, in this case the listener. Most everything else is excess baggage. Some extra things are required (like a media, player, etc.), things that enable this tranmission of art. Other things, like the RIAA, et al. are not needed, in fact they hinder art, thus need to be eliminated.
room101 -- how much can you stand before they break you?
(they always break you eventually)
Could the corporations get a ban on all encrypted traffic for which no key is in escrow for easy policing?
I'm beginning to think that corporations can get just about anything they want in the U.S. I'm trying not to be cynical, but the U.S. Supreme Court has been handing down increasingly bizarre decisions with hardly any public comment against it. Last week's decision gutting the Fourth Amendment, for example: do a majority of U.S. citizens really think it's OK for the police to stop, handcuff, arrest, mugshot and jail a woman for not wearing a seatbelt? In a state where the maximum penalty for this "crime" is a $50 fine?
This from a court that says money is speech, innocence is no defense against the death penalty and there's no need to finish counting votes in a close election.
The only way the RIAA, MPAA et. al. can fully protect what they perceive to be their property is if society allows a police state to develop. The Fourth Amendment was lost last week; we're on our way.
Chris Hansen, the guy at Earthlink knows what's going on and the Un-'napsterization' of the internet is fruitless. He states "The stronger the protection, the stronger the attack,"
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We've all focused on our 1st ammendment right to encryption. It has occured to me that since the government has categorized encryption as a munition, we have a 2nd ammendment right to keep and bear encryption. We should even be able to get the NRA to defend our right.
When VPNs are outlawed, only outlaws have VPNs.
I believe the quote is "Under Capitalism, man exploits his fellow man. Under Communism, it's the other way around."
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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Ummm...I believe he was talking about property, aka "land". Now, go and reread the post. Thank you.
Perhaps if you weren't so busy being brainwashed by your gov't and becoming a drone, you might have realized a few things. First off, that there's more to economies than simple capitalism or communism/socialism. Secondly, that just because communism in the USSR failed does not necessarily mean it's a bad ideal. Thirdly, that nothing is quite so black and white to be able to say "Capitalism good, Communism bad." and be done with it. Fourthly, that the poster was in no way "broad, vague [or] unreasonable", though I admit it might have been a little utopian because of people who can't quite grasp the concept that the US may not have all the answers.
Lastly, the poster was not talking of socialism! He was simply arguing that it should be a birthright to have a piece of land that you are free to do with as you please! How difficult is that to understand?
And what about the continuing surge in population levels? If I get say, 5 acres, then I have 3 children, do I divide it equally among them? And then what about their children? Must they stay in that same place? What if my land is in Arizona? Can I move (please)?
Pressure from the music industry fostering privacy tactics is a good thing compared to other pressures. By developing privacy technology now to prevent corporations from tracking us, we're also developing the means to prevent the government from doing the same thing. I'd much prefer the pressure from music and movies than government regulations.
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Developers: We can use your help.
Moral and legal implications aside, The MPAA and RIAA dont understand what thier up against. Thier not fighting a bunch of dirty ol digital pirates, thier fighting the Idea of the free flow of information.
:P
They just dont understand that you cannot fight an idea with laws, or brute force bullying, or any of the other tactics they have tried.
Ideas can only be fought with better ideas. The harder they try and crack down on this the deeper the hole they dig for themselves.
Maybe if they (RIAA and MPAA) keep digging eventually they will get to China where theyre ideas might be accepted.
RA7
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"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" - RWE
No? Then STFU and go home. I'm really tired of all the would-be piracy Czars crying in the name of the law and integrity. Let he who hath no sin cast the first stone.
We have a LONG way to go in terms of grappling with ownership and usage of intellectual property. The mere concept of IP is at the heart of some of these debates. As the Internet turns IP into a commodity, it is fascinating to watch the issues unfold.
I look forward with great curiosity and anticipation to where humanity ends up with this.
Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
Of course you mean, "For all Constitutional freedoms except those that are not 'politically correct' like those spelled out in the second amendment, join the ACLU", right?
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
What I'm fearing is when the 4-letter acronyms start attacking the universities
They already have started, though not in earnest. Yet.
Maskirovka
A dongle may be a good thing when it comes to protecting one's private crypto key, but when it comes to "copyright protection", it is simply insufficient.
How would you use a dongle to protect music? Have a unique encryption key in each one? Forget the "legitimate software" -- reverse engineer it, read the key off the dongle using new code and write it in the clear.
Pumping the music through the dongle, which contains a decryption engine? Again, new code, take the output stream and send it to the hard drive rather than the sound board.
Nope nope, the only way to truly protect your "digital rights" is to engineer a sound board, with a decryption engine and the A->D audio (video?) hardware all on a single chip, so there's no way for the PC to get at the digital stream. Problem solved!
But, uh, wait. Even assuming you've used flawless encryption and hardware design to perform this deed, you forget that a high-quality first generation copy is about as good as the original. Take that sound board's output and route it to an A->D converter, on the same machine or an extra one. Then burn to MP3, so all additional copying is digital, with no further loss of quality.
When you've pushed the price of CDs to $25 apiece, do you think people will pay that much just for a perfect copy?
Well, you'd better hope so.
Sure, they will provide service for copyright violators, even blatant ones. But for that to take place, there has to be someone with a business plan involving copyright violations. "Give other people's stuff away for free," sounds nice in theory, but you have to survive off of it also. To do that, you have to be pretty public, so why bother with stealth? Second, that means a lot of bandwidth, and for all Havenco is, they aren't a provider of cheap bandwidth.
I'm sure the fight will heat up, but I doubt Havenco has much stake in it, one way or the other.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
How much copyright infringment was going on the Internet pre-commercialization (early 90s)?
Not so much copyright infringement, thats a whole other grey area. More like, fair use
How can you say that ? Thanks to commercial involvement and consequently greatly increased popularity we have an order of magnitude more information available on the net. Granted some of it is pure junk but, hey isn't that the case with any medium ?
I can say that a consequential factor in the latest recession and downturn of tech jobs, the treatment of highly skilled tech people is do to overzealous VCs and large corporations expanding into a medium they didn't understand.
By the way, I hope you do recognize that real progress is made mainly thanks to financial incentives being present and NOT because of good will of some people.
While this is true, some things should NOT be a part of internatioal corporatism. The example in this case are learning instutions. Whats to prevent someone from getting an unbiased, multifaced education?
A decent fight ? Remember , napster is being accused of breaking existing law.
Throughout history, the most drastic changes to oppression and the "Image of a boot, stamping on the human face, forever" have been from a small but growing circle of rebels doing illegal things to prove they are for whats right and just. (Right and just are subject to interperatation, but some things are pretty clear) [see: boston tea party, Europian Rennesance et al.]
Almost all /.ers know that the current state of the net was born out of the hard work and research of mostly public and a few private academic institutions.
During the late 90s, we all know that changed, mostly for the worse
Now we're seeing the clash of the 'geeks' who have had their last haven against the extreme capitalism invaded, and we're not taking this lightly at all.
Problem is, there is so damn few of us to matter...
But to stay on topic... what crossed my mind is: I'm seeing the current 'net floating towards a balance of 2 seperate entities: the aolmsnyahootimewarner.megacom variety, and the berkelyslashdot.orgu.
Capitalism can have their side, nobody here cares about that if they stay on their side of the fence. But what happens when the 4-letter acronyms start invading our home turf Universities, the havens of intellectualism. The slashdots, kuro5hins.
As an aside, some universities are driven by some corporate entities to some extent, mostly out of necessity to keep admission and tuition costs from inflating to unreachable heights. A state university here is well known to have its biology department almost totally funded by a select few multinational drug corporations, mostly to keep its head afloat. Now, the biology department has mostly turned into a cheap research lab for those companies.
So what does this mean for our last fortresses of defense? What I'm fearing is the 4-letter acronyms start attacking the universities after they have done cleaning up the blood of non-conformant ISPs wishing to take a final stand for their users rights (or greed, whichever is fine by me). Oh, well we all know they have done half-hearted attempts before, but nothing very serious. I think they're waiting until they're finished testing where they can push the government and the people before the final 'battle' will begin.
I can't see where it will go from here. All I can see is a horrible bloody mess between the 4 letters and the multinationals that run some universities, with the rest trying to hold out on their own. The outcome? I can't say... just years and years of hurtful words, damaged egos, broken spirits and one side not willing to give into the other. After it all clears, possibly, the best will stand and can say "we are standing because we are here for what is right"
But we can't do it at the corporate level. Fighting with ISPs, organizations and such all take money. We simply can't even to begin to raise enough money to even put up a decent fight [see: napster, et al]. What we can do is take a stand at the intellectual, thoughtful, insightful level. Win with ideals, not money. Its the only chance we have.
*Off soapbox now
Intellectual property laws exist only because capitalism is a slavery system. Our livelihood depends on working for others so we can pay our taxes. The reason that we have to work for others is that 99% of people have been deprived of an inheritance in the land. Income property is owned by a few and the government. The others are slaves. Artists and inventors depend on their work to make a living. Can we blame them? With the exception of a few, we all do because we are all slaves and we are all disenfranchised. So now we are swimming in an ocean of laws and rules that take away our remaining liberties, one by one.
The internet and other communication technologies are the first major kinks in the armor of a sick system. As technology progresses, it will eventually die a horrible death. What will happen to a slave-based economy when robots replace everybody, i. e., when human labor, knowledge and expertise become worthless?
We should all demand a truly free system where everybody is guaranteed to inherit income property by virtue of being human, a piece of the pie, so to speak. This way we can all compete and coorperate on an equal footing. No welfare, no exploitation, no herding of billions of people into big cities that pollute the earth.
There is plenty for everybody. This is not a handout from the government because the land has existed for billions of years before any human government appear on earth. Their job is to make sure that everybody gets a fair piece. What we doo with our inheritance after that is up to us and our descendants.
The land and the world's wealth should not be divided for a price. It should be an inheritance for us and our children and their children.
Mod me down because of my sig.
From I've been reading, this technique is almost impossible to fight against http://www.cs.nyu.edu/~waldman/publius/publius.htm l
... It is a big jump from going from the article's text to key escrow.
It is in the interests of many people/organisations to use encryption. Further, systems like Gnutella do more than just music / mp3 / copyrighted material transfers. The problem is in proving the content of the transfer, rather than the fat that the transfer occurred. Further, much of the sting of these "interested parties" disappears outside the USofA.
Let's face it, PGP is equally capable of transferring sensitive / copyrighted material as Gnutella, Freenet, etc.
Still, the point is that there is no link between the article and key escrow. Tha article only points out that the RIAA, and others are looking at alternative "Napster's".
Now, if FreeNet had Linux clients....
.. if only.
obvious next step for the the entertainment factories to lobby for would be a ban on all encrypted traffic for which no key is in escrow for easy policing.
One thing everybody seems to forget when they get enraged over the various attempts to ban encryption/implement mandatory key-escrow/force key disclosure under a warrant is that the authorities (at least in the USA) still have to prove that the encrypted message even exists. If I RSA-encrypt the Pentagon's top-secret toilet paper usage statistics for the years 1975-1989, then the feds bust through my door, sieze my hard drive (which wouldn't have the keys because I'm not stupid), and ask for the key to this encrypted file, I can always say "What encrypted file? That's 30 seconds of screen capture of static off the TV antenna."
Sure, they could use statitistical methods to figure out that the data isn't quite as random as they would expect it to be, but they can't say definitively that the file is encrypted without decrypting it. Even if I decided to admit that the file is in fact encrypted information, I could just give the authorities a second pair of keys, generated in the same manner as the "real" keys, but with different primes, so they don't decrypt the data. Then, when they try to use them and get garbage, I can make my claim of recording TV-static "in order to try it out".
Besides, I don't see how you can distinguish encrypted packets from any other data packets anyway. Maybe PGP adds a header or something to the file, but if it came down to the above scenarios, you could make your own headerless encryption system with nothing more than a few lines of code.
--WH--
All your ISP's are belong to us...
--- My Karma is bigger than your...
------ This sentence no verb
All of our contracts give HavenCo the right to cancel at will if the customer's web site or service is endangering our access to Internet connectivity, reasons for which spam is typically #1. Our advanced technical anti-spam and anti-attack techniques will prevent all customers from using our services for this purpose, and we will respond promptly to any complaints of spam.
While I think we can all agree with their choice to ban use of servers for spam on the basis that it could seriously endanger their business, what does this imply about their provision of other taboo services? If someone sets up Napster2 on Sealand, will it be shut down on this same basis, that it "is endangering [their] access to Internet connectivity"?
Sealand could face some major flak if they serve as a safe-harbour to exiled Internet services and they may simply not be willing to allow that flak to threaten their operations, as Spam would.
Louis Savain (Nemesis, MOBE) is a scientific and mathematical illiterate. More information on Mr. Savain can be found by doing a google groups search. In summary Savain believes that one "cannot move in spacetime." Mr. Savain fails to realize that math does not lie, and, no matter how little he likes it, if you throw a clock really hard it slows down. You might want to run and get your introductory physics books and start Mr. Savain from first principles, and see where he wiggs out - like this "Hey, Savain, do all observers see light move at the same speed?" You see, he dosen't wig out here, because then he just gets ignored. No, he wiggs out somewhere randomly between here and E=MC^2, so that he can try to argue philosophy instead of math (he dosen't understand math, you see.) When you move really fast time slows down, neener neener neener. It's a fact!
I'm the best IRC client ever.
But the thing is, then the companies that make up the RIAA would have to hire ugly people if they could make good music!!! Look at the mass-produced mega-stars out there, all with perfect teeth and smooth complexions. Life is NOT like that. It's got to the stage where videos are as important as the song. Hell, one famous manager here in Ireland has said on air that "the first thing I do is see if they're good looking. If they're not - tough luck." Just as well the Beatles didn't go to him!
/. browsing daze :o)
Look at the tons of albums with 1 (if that many) good song on an album with 12-14 tracks. The filler music. The companies simply can't get away with that if services like napster abound. I wouldn't buy any album that bad. For the record, 100% of the albums I own I got after listening to them in MP3 format.
Enough of that rant, I'm going back to my
Rational thought is the only true freedom
In any case, how is it possible, even in principle, to discern the difference between encrypted traffic, and traffic in a protocol that you simply don't understand. Obviously there are going to be exceptions to this, but most types of binary data are going to be unintelligible unless you already know what kind of information they represent.
For that you would need to capture a beginning-to-end transmission, which implies that you're already under tight surveillance. In that case I don't think there's much you can do. However, even the more paranoid Americans would have to admit that governments can't be everywhere all the time.
-- Your mother uses Emacs.
That's exactly what I kept saying during that whole damn Lewinsky trial.
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I may be completely off base here but wouldn't that restrict all public-private key encryption used for key exchange (unless every user registered every public/private key they used with a government agency first - which seems insecure/impractical). As regards to the future (15-20 years time) does Quantum encryption (for Quantum decryption and thus encryption will come to pass) sufferer from Man In The Middle attacks? If not I see no way the CIA/ Secret Service/ (Insert Government Agency / Media Outlet here) can gain the ability to police packet contents and allow secure e-commerce.
Well, more often than not it is advise from legal team that results in new cases being filled.
The only way liberals win national elections is by pretending they're not liberals.
Encryption is like locking your front door. It make keep out the neighbors. It make keep out the twerp up the street who lusts after your stereo. It may even keep out a beginning burgular. However, you wouldn't keep an original Van Gough in your living room and expect that lock to keep out a cat burgular intent on stealing your really valuable bit of art.
p>If I devote a big enough cluster to cracking your encryption, I can crack it in a relatively short period of time. Computing power is such that none of the encryption algorythms are safe from being cracked within a few hours (days at most) by a REALLY determined person or group with deep enough pockets.The trick with encryption these days is to make the decryption process take long enough that the informations value has expired. For example, if I'm going to meet you next Tuesday (ONLY HYPOTHETICAL) and I send you a message then I want to be sure that even if Bob can crack the message, he won't be able to do so until Wednesday. We will have had our Tuesday meeting and be long gone.
So quit whining about encrypting this and having keys to that. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter. It hasn't in years. Instead you should be worried about who has access to this information, not how to encrypt it. Encryption is not a magic bullet to protect your privacy.
HDGary secures my bank
Like prohibition before it, crypto will see the light of day...policing it can't and NEVER will work. I agree...you cannot have secure e-commerce with key escrow...it's self-defeating. NO ONE has the right to know what I am doing with encryption...NO ONE... I take Spock's philospohy here: "The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few." To try and police encryption use for fear of a malevolent few actually engaging in illegal trade is futile at best and idiotic at worst. Open source technology is great in that we can really see that nothing we use is tampered with...has no back door and is viable and safe for use. I would rather eat dog shit than use a closed-source encryption program. To not encrypt your email for serious business use is an unforgivable sin, unless it is not important to you that others see the transmission. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld that crypto is protected by the First Ammendment, and to get that overturned will NOT happen in our lifetime...the government will continue to develop new and more powerful tools, but with the advent of quantum computing not far over the horizon, the existing crypto standards will all change anyway...
"No repair is needed...just a spark."