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"We code for, and test against, IE 6+, FireFox 2+, Safari 3+, Chrome 4+ and Opera 9+. And it sucks. With all the supposedly intelligent and future thinking people pushing the Internet forward, I am stunned at their inability to comply with W3C standards. Yeah, yeah, W3C documents are the 'drying paint' of the internet, but they are what all browser developers are supposed to be aiming for. I think they all need new glasses. - by WrongSizeGlass (838941) on Friday March 19, @08:55AM (#31536242)

Per my subject-line above then? How about THESE #'s, over time, in the areas of BOTH SPEED & SECURITY?? You spoke of needing glasses??? Take a read, about SECURITY & SPEED (because perhaps you've been drinking from the wrong glass my man, in regards to your statement (I interpreted it as "Opera sucks" actually), & perhaps you omitted reading these (or, you need diff. reading glasses):

IF you love speed online (fastest renderer around for webpage data AND scripting too, both YEARS ago -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win , and last year too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm , is Opera 10.5.3315 (AND, also per the SunSpider benchmarks recently done this month no less, passing FireFox AND EVEN GOOGLE CHROME yet again -> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/356350/on-test-the-hidden-seven-browsers-in-the-windows-ballot/145087 (which Opera USUALLY owns javascript processing speeds too, but FF passed them BRIEFLY earlier this year is all, for once, in that area)) AND if you love security too!)

====

SECUNIA WEB BROWSER PROGRAM SECURITY STATS AS OF THIS DATE:

====

Opera 10.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 5 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox 3.6x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/28698/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 1 Secunia advisories - FIREFOX does make a good showing here too though... but, they've consistently over time had more than Opera, & more left unpatched too + for longer usually)

----

Internet Explorer 8.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

Unpatched 44% (4 of 9 Secunia advisories)

====

"Read 'em & weep"...

Opera's CONSISTENTLY free of security vulnerabilities too, year-in & year-out... (or, moreso typically than the other 2 of the "big 3", that is) - and features?

Opera's got features most browsers need "bolted on" addons for, except Opera has them natively (as well as having a widgets addons set for it as well, IF you need that kind of thing (I really do not, it comes with all the features I like such as popup blocking, script blocks or accepts BY SITE (via its various .ini files it has) too & more, far more)... plus, features Opera has, other webbrowsers COPIED (tabbed browsing anyone?), like mad!

"Imitation IS the sincerest form of FLATTERY"... period!

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? For better SPEED online (both HTML/XHTML/XML + javascript processing) AND BETTER OVERALL SECURITY ONLINE? Go Opera... apk

"Opera must be doing something right, that all the other browsers are missing." - by Runaway1956 (1322357) on Friday March 19, @09:27AM (#31536984) Homepage

They surely are: ESPECIALLY IN THE AREAS OF BETTER ONLINE SPEED and SECURITY (consistently over time no less - see the url's below for verification no less):

IF you love speed online (fastest renderer around for webpage data AND scripting too, both YEARS ago -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win , and last year too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm , is Opera 10.5.3315 (AND, also per the SunSpider benchmarks recently done this month no less, passing FireFox AND EVEN GOOGLE CHROME yet again -> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/356350/on-test-the-hidden-seven-browsers-in-the-windows-ballot/145087 (which Opera USUALLY owns javascript processing speeds too, but FF passed them BRIEFLY earlier this year is all, for once, in that area)) AND if you love security too!)

====

SECUNIA WEB BROWSER PROGRAM SECURITY STATS AS OF THIS DATE:

====

Opera 10.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 5 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox 3.6x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/28698/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 1 Secunia advisories - FIREFOX does make a good showing here too though... but, they've consistently over time had more than Opera, & more left unpatched too + for longer usually)

----

Internet Explorer 8.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

Unpatched 44% (4 of 9 Secunia advisories)

====

"Read 'em & weep"...

Opera's CONSISTENTLY free of security vulnerabilities too, year-in & year-out... (or, moreso typically than the other 2 of the "big 3", that is) - and features?

Opera's got features most browsers need "bolted on" addons for, except Opera has them natively (as well as having a widgets addons set for it as well, IF you need that kind of thing (I really do not, it comes with all the features I like such as popup blocking, script blocks or accepts BY SITE (via its various .ini files it has) too & more, far more).

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? For better SPEED online (both HTML/XHTML/XML + javascript processing) AND BETTER OVERALL SECURITY ONLINE? Go Opera... apk

"It's a Big Red O! There's no stopping the Big Red O once it gets rolling." - by residieu (577863) on Friday March 19, @09:11AM (#31536574)

Per my subject-line above then & what I quoted from you? How about THESE #'s, over time, in the areas of BOTH SPEED & SECURITY (not just "the future" either as you stated, but also consistently GREAT showings in the past, for BOTH better SPEED online AND SECURITY TOO)??

IF you love speed online (fastest renderer around for webpage data AND scripting too, both YEARS ago -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win , and last year too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm , is Opera 10.5.3315 (AND, also per the SunSpider benchmarks recently done this month no less, passing FireFox AND EVEN GOOGLE CHROME yet again -> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/356350/on-test-the-hidden-seven-browsers-in-the-windows-ballot/145087 (which Opera USUALLY owns javascript processing speeds too, but FF passed them BRIEFLY earlier this year is all, for once, in that area)) AND if you love security too!)

====

SECUNIA WEB BROWSER PROGRAM SECURITY STATS AS OF THIS DATE:

====

Opera 10.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 5 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox 3.6x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/28698/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 1 Secunia advisories - FIREFOX does make a good showing here too though... but, they've consistently over time had more than Opera, & more left unpatched too + for longer usually)

----

Internet Explorer 8.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

Unpatched 44% (4 of 9 Secunia advisories)

====

"Read 'em & weep"...

Opera's CONSISTENTLY free of security vulnerabilities too, year-in & year-out... (or, moreso typically than the other 2 of the "big 3", that is) - and features?

Opera's got features most browsers need "bolted on" addons for, except Opera has them natively (as well as having a widgets addons set for it as well, IF you need that kind of thing (I really do not, it comes with all the features I like such as popup blocking, script blocks or accepts BY SITE (via its various .ini files it has) too & more, far more).

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? For better SPEED online (both HTML/XHTML/XML + javascript processing) AND BETTER OVERALL SECURITY ONLINE? Go Opera... apk

"You must be lonely, or only know idiots. Opera has been at the forefront of web technologies and open standards for years. PS. Check market share in Russia." - by Anonymous Coward
on Friday March 19, @08:41AM (#31535938)

Great point, so... how about a couple more (important areas - like SPEED & SECURITY)? Ok, here we go:

IF you love speed online (fastest renderer around for webpage data AND scripting too, both YEARS ago -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win , and last year too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm , is Opera 10.5.3315 (AND, also per the SunSpider benchmarks recently done this month no less, passing FireFox AND EVEN GOOGLE CHROME yet again -> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/356350/on-test-the-hidden-seven-browsers-in-the-windows-ballot/145087 (which Opera USUALLY owns javascript processing speeds too, but FF passed them BRIEFLY earlier this year is all, for once, in that area)) AND if you love security too!)

====

SECUNIA WEB BROWSER PROGRAM SECURITY STATS AS OF THIS DATE:

====

Opera 10.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 5 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox 3.6x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/28698/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 1 Secunia advisories - FIREFOX does make a good showing here too though... but, they've consistently over time had more than Opera, & more left unpatched too + for longer usually)

----

Internet Explorer 8.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

Unpatched 44% (4 of 9 Secunia advisories)

====

"Read 'em & weep"...

Opera's CONSISTENTLY free of security vulnerabilities too, year-in & year-out... (or, moreso typically than the other 2 of the "big 3", that is) - and features?

Opera's got features most browsers need "bolted on" addons for, except Opera has them natively (as well as having a widgets addons set for it as well, IF you need that kind of thing (I really do not, it comes with all the features I like such as popup blocking, script blocks or accepts BY SITE (via its various .ini files it has) too & more, far more).

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? For better SPEED online (both HTML/XHTML/XML + javascript processing) AND BETTER OVERALL SECURITY ONLINE? Go Opera... apk

"How many of those Polish potentially swayed by the "Opera Turbo technology - speed up your Internet connection" are actually going to -stick to- using Opera, rather than going back to IE or using another browser they might have downloaded through that same choice screen?" - by Animaether (411575) on Friday March 19, @09:06AM (#31536478)

You're speaking to one now - Polish-American here, & here are the reasons WHY I stick to Opera (& have since I discovered it ages ago around version 4.x):

IF you love speed online (fastest renderer around for webpage data AND scripting too, both YEARS ago -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win , and last year too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm , is Opera 10.5.3315 (AND, also per the SunSpider benchmarks recently done this month no less, passing FireFox AND EVEN GOOGLE CHROME yet again -> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/356350/on-test-the-hidden-seven-browsers-in-the-windows-ballot/145087 (which Opera USUALLY owns javascript processing speeds too, but FF passed them BRIEFLY earlier this year is all, for once, in that area)) AND if you love security too!)

====

SECUNIA WEB BROWSER PROGRAM SECURITY STATS AS OF THIS DATE:

====

Opera 10.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 5 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox 3.6x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/28698/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 1 Secunia advisories - FIREFOX does make a good showing here too though... but, they've consistently over time had more than Opera, & more left unpatched too + for longer usually)

----

Internet Explorer 8.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

Unpatched 44% (4 of 9 Secunia advisories)

====

"Read 'em & weep"...

Opera's CONSISTENTLY free of security vulnerabilities too, year-in & year-out... (or, moreso typically than the other 2 of the "big 3", that is) - and features?

Opera's got features most browsers need "bolted on" addons for, except Opera has them natively (as well as having a widgets addons set for it as well, IF you need that kind of thing (I really do not, it comes with all the features I like such as popup blocking, script blocks or accepts BY SITE (via its various .ini files it has) too & more, far more).

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? For better SPEED online (both HTML/XHTML/XML + javascript processing) AND BETTER OVERALL SECURITY ONLINE? Go Opera... apk

"I'd certainly recommend trying it again - Opera has been continually improved, and it's not really fair to judge it today based on a five year old version." - by mdwh2 (535323)
on Friday March 19, @09:17AM (#31536688)

Per my subject-line above then? I agree, 110%... why?

Well - How about THESE #'s, over time, in the areas of BOTH SPEED & SECURITY?? It's actually quite fair to judge Opera on those areas, especially IF you check the URL's below that have tested Opera in benchmarks for speed (Security ratings are below too):

IF you love speed online (fastest renderer around for webpage data AND scripting too, both YEARS ago -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win , and last year too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm , is Opera 10.5.3315 (AND, also per the SunSpider benchmarks recently done this month no less, passing FireFox AND EVEN GOOGLE CHROME yet again -> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/356350/on-test-the-hidden-seven-browsers-in-the-windows-ballot/145087 (which Opera USUALLY owns javascript processing speeds too, but FF passed them BRIEFLY earlier this year is all, for once, in that area)) AND if you love security too!)

====

SECUNIA WEB BROWSER PROGRAM SECURITY STATS AS OF THIS DATE:

====

Opera 10.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 5 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox 3.6x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/28698/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 1 Secunia advisories - FIREFOX does make a good showing here too though... but, they've consistently over time had more than Opera, & more left unpatched too + for longer usually)

----

Internet Explorer 8.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

Unpatched 44% (4 of 9 Secunia advisories)

====

"Read 'em & weep"...

Opera's CONSISTENTLY free of security vulnerabilities too, year-in & year-out... (or, moreso typically than the other 2 of the "big 3", that is) - and features?

Opera's got features most browsers need "bolted on" addons for, except Opera has them natively (as well as having a widgets addons set for it as well, IF you need that kind of thing (I really do not, it comes with all the features I like such as popup blocking, script blocks or accepts BY SITE (via its various .ini files it has) too & more, far more).

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? For better SPEED online (both HTML/XHTML/XML + javascript processing) AND BETTER OVERALL SECURITY ONLINE? Go Opera... apk

"These numbers don't mean too much, because at the time the ballot screen was introduced Opera introduced a new version of their browser as well. Probably at least part of the increase is caused by this new version, and not by the ballot screen." - by TSchut (1314115) on Friday March 19, @08:40AM (#31535912)

Per my subject-line above then? How about THESE #'s, over time, in the areas of BOTH SPEED & SECURITY??

IF you love speed online (fastest renderer around for webpage data AND scripting too, both YEARS ago -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win , and last year too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm , is Opera 10.5.3315 (AND, also per the SunSpider benchmarks recently done this month no less, passing FireFox AND EVEN GOOGLE CHROME yet again -> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/356350/on-test-the-hidden-seven-browsers-in-the-windows-ballot/145087 (which Opera USUALLY owns javascript processing speeds too, but FF passed them BRIEFLY earlier this year is all, for once, in that area)) AND if you love security too!)

====

SECUNIA WEB BROWSER PROGRAM SECURITY STATS AS OF THIS DATE:

====

Opera 10.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 5 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox 3.6x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/28698/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 1 Secunia advisories - FIREFOX does make a good showing here too though... but, they've consistently over time had more than Opera, & more left unpatched too + for longer usually)

----

Internet Explorer 8.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

Unpatched 44% (4 of 9 Secunia advisories)

====

"Read 'em & weep"...

Opera's CONSISTENTLY free of security vulnerabilities too, year-in & year-out... (or, moreso typically than the other 2 of the "big 3", that is) - and features?

Opera's got features most browsers need "bolted on" addons for, except Opera has them natively (as well as having a widgets addons set for it as well, IF you need that kind of thing (I really do not, it comes with all the features I like such as popup blocking, script blocks or accepts BY SITE (via its various .ini files it has) too & more, far more).

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? For better SPEED online (both HTML/XHTML/XML + javascript processing) AND BETTER OVERALL SECURITY ONLINE? Go Opera... apk

"Opera Software did great work lobbying against software patents in the campaigns on the EU software patents directive. Thanks Opera!." - by H4x0r Jim Duggan (757476) on Friday March 19, @08:40AM (#31535908) Homepage

Opera CONSISTENTLY does great @ getting users the BEST SPEED and THE BEST SECURITY RATING (vs. known vulnerabilities) over time also... So, I agree, & say "Thanks Opera" for being consistently the FASTEST & SAFEST WEBBROWSER PROGRAM THERE IS, CONSISTENTLY OVER TIME, Bar-none!

IF you love speed online (fastest renderer around for webpage data AND scripting too, both YEARS ago -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win , and last year too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm , is Opera 10.5.3315 (AND, also per the SunSpider benchmarks recently done this month no less, passing FireFox AND EVEN GOOGLE CHROME yet again -> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/gallery/features/356350/on-test-the-hidden-seven-browsers-in-the-windows-ballot/145087 (which Opera USUALLY owns javascript processing speeds too, but FF passed them BRIEFLY earlier this year is all, for once, in that area)) AND if you love security too!)

====

SECUNIA WEB BROWSER PROGRAM SECURITY STATS AS OF THIS DATE:

====

Opera 10.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 5 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox 3.6x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/28698/

Unpatched 0% (0 of 1 Secunia advisories - FIREFOX does make a good showing here too though... but, they've consistently over time had more than Opera, & more left unpatched too + for longer usually)

----

Internet Explorer 8.x:

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

Unpatched 44% (4 of 9 Secunia advisories)

====

"Read 'em & weep"...

Opera's CONSISTENTLY free of security vulnerabilities too, year-in & year-out... (or, moreso typically than the other 2 of the "big 3", that is) - and features?

Opera's got features most browsers need "bolted on" addons for, except Opera has them natively (as well as having a widgets addons set for it as well, IF you need that kind of thing (I really do not, it comes with all the features I like such as popup blocking, script blocks or accepts BY SITE (via its various .ini files it has) too & more, far more).

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? For better SPEED online (both HTML/XHTML/XML + javascript processing) AND BETTER OVERALL SECURITY ONLINE? Go Opera... apk

• PowerShell wasn't introduced until Windows Vista, and Windows's cmd.exe is far inferior.
• Perhaps "journaled" wasn't exactly the right word. Maybe "fragmentation-resistant"? Either way, I'm pretty sure HFS+ has something on NTFS.
• Windows 2000 came with IE5, which was an okay browser for its time (not great, like IE6 was when it was released). Neither has anything on a modern browser like Safari. You may not like Safari for whatever reasons, but there is something seriously wrong with you if you think it's worse than IE. IE6 was singlehandedly responsible for the prevalence of malware in the first half of this decade, not to mention making web developers go insane.
• Built-in PDF reading is an OS feature, especially since it's not Adobe Reader. Built-in PDF writing is an OS feature, too, since it can be used on any printed document, not just Office documents. Not to mention MS Office isn't free, and OpenOffice isn't a MS product.
• I guess I was wrong about DVD playback, but it still wasn't introduced until Vista, which is around 4 years later than OS X, and 7 years later than Windows 2000.
• Statements like "Windows 7 runs on a Pentium 4 with 512 MB RAM and Intel graphics" is what caused the "Vista Ready" debacle.
• Windows's doesn't support other OSes by default, though - installing Windows will wipe out any other OS - getting the bootloader to support other OSes is a fairly difficult procedure. There's certainly nothing as simple to use as Boot Camp, which is what I was referring to.
• I didn't know XP got those things. Well, it still got those far later than OS X did, and I believe it still doesn't have a Spotlight-equivalent, nor does it have search boxes in Explorer (something OS X did since like 10.2)

Which "first list" are you talking about? I can't think of any list in either of our posts in which the majority were present in Windows 2000.

I'll give you the menu bar problem on multiple desktops. I've never been a fan of OS X's "menu bar on top". Nor the lack of really maximizing windows. Nor the difficulty in making anything fullscreen.

"Ha, and you got tricked by a Opera or Chrome fanboy into replying. You know that's not going to make them change." - by zullnero (833754) on Thursday January 21, @04:01PM (#30851208) Homepage

Ok, then here are some FACTS for your to "mull over" then... ok?

NOW, as far as "SPEED & SECURITY" online, & Opera vs. FireFox vs. IE?? Ok:

====

A.) For SPEED (& even in javascript for the LONGEST time, until FF's new engines took its place (until Opera 10.50 @ least, because that's gotten a decent "boost" in that area -> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/22/1911216 (not that it matters though, speeding up javascript is like asking to get infected by malscripted sites &/or adbanners faster imo @ least - that of a "POV" of PC security, mostly)):

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

and

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cnetuk/crave/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm

AND

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

(Opera "rocked the planet" in those cases... bigtime (& ESPECIALLY ON THE MOST USED PLATFORM THERE IS, BAR-NONE, FOR PC-COMPUTING: Windows!))

----

AND, for SECURITY also (less vulnerabilities present over time than IE or FF, per SECUNIA.COM stats):

INTERNET EXPLORER 8.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/?task=advisories

(UNPATCHED = 4-8 / 50% (though 1 of them, the "Critical 'Out-of-Band' Cumulative Update IS patched, as of about 1 hr. ago (go get it those of you that use MS OS' that is...)))

---

FIREFOX 3.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/25800/?task=statistics

(UNPATCHED = 0-6 / 0% (on this note, as you can see? FF had MORE advisories, over time as I noted, but... they've done a GREAT JOB in stopping that much (now, the same has to be said for their browser addons too, but that too, improves over time as well usually))

Most Critical Unpatched

There are no unpatched Secunia advisories affecting this product, when all vendor patches are applied..

----

OPERA 10.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/?task=statistics

(UNPATCHED = 0-3 / 0% )

Most Critical Unpatched

There are no unpatched Secunia advisories affecting this product, when all vendor patches are applied..

====

Opera ROCKS, period (or, do the stats above make me a liar? I think not...)!

Plus, Opera's been able to pass the "ACID TESTS" (ACID2 specfically) for compliance to web-based standards since version 6.x iirc, & it was (iirc) actually the FIRST BROWSER (not development kit) to do so, but when counting dev kits, it was 2nd... correct me if I am "off" here on this last point though, guys, & thanks.

APK

P.S.=> Opera has a BIG "share-of-market" on MOBILE DEVICES as well, & is big in EUROPE (though stats don't tend to show it, because like many others, I tend to "IDENTIFY AS IE" in Opera, so I get somewhat better "IE based" page renderings on SOME sites (this happens, too bad) & that's something others seem to overlook QUITE A BIT too)...

Once more, imo @ least? Well - Opera's great!

I.E.-> It took me away from being a FireFox user primarily in fact, because of it (& FF + IE have copied Opera's features RAMPANTLY over time (e.g.-> Tabbed Browsing anyone? As far as ADDONS also?? Heh, a LOT of what FF

"Firefox 3.6 does beat the newest Chrome on some Javascript benchmarks (and Chrome beats Firefox on others)." - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 21, @03:06PM (#30850216)

LOL: WoW... when you come right down to it though, my man? That's hilarious... it really is!

(Especially in today's "over-plagued by javascript-based attacks" of the internet today!)

After all - Most attack that hit you USE javascript in malscripted webpages &/or malscripted adbanners, period (or via email attacks & malscripted .pdf files).

Facts ARE FACTS.

NOW, as far as "SPEED & SECURITY" online, & Opera vs. FireFox vs. IE?? Ok:

====

A.) For SPEED (& even in javascript for the LONGEST time, until FF's new engines took its place (until Opera 10.50 @ least, because that's gotten a decent "boost" in that area -> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/22/1911216 (not that it matters though, speeding up javascript is like asking to get infected by malscripted sites &/or adbanners faster imo @ least - that of a "POV" of PC security, mostly)):

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

and

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cnetuk/crave/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm

AND

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

(Opera "rocked the planet" in those cases... bigtime (& ESPECIALLY ON THE MOST USED PLATFORM THERE IS, BAR-NONE, FOR PC-COMPUTING: Windows!))

----

AND, for SECURITY also (less vulnerabilities present over time than IE or FF, per SECUNIA.COM stats):

INTERNET EXPLORER 8.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/?task=advisories

(UNPATCHED = 4-8 / 50% (though 1 of them, the "Critical 'Out-of-Band' Cumulative Update IS patched, as of about 1 hr. ago (go get it those of you that use MS OS' that is...)))

---

FIREFOX 3.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/25800/?task=statistics

(UNPATCHED = 0-6 / 0% (on this note, as you can see? FF had MORE advisories, over time as I noted, but... they've done a GREAT JOB in stopping that much (now, the same has to be said for their browser addons too, but that too, improves over time as well usually))

Most Critical Unpatched

There are no unpatched Secunia advisories affecting this product, when all vendor patches are applied..

----

OPERA 10.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/?task=statistics

(UNPATCHED = 0-3 / 0% )

Most Critical Unpatched

There are no unpatched Secunia advisories affecting this product, when all vendor patches are applied..

====

Opera ROCKS, period (or, do the stats above make me a liar? I think not...)!

Plus, Opera's been able to pass the "ACID TESTS" (ACID2 specfically) for compliance to web-based standards since version 6.x iirc, & it was (iirc) actually the FIRST BROWSER (not development kit) to do so, but when counting dev kits, it was 2nd... correct me if I am "off" here on this last point though, guys, & thanks.

APK

P.S.=> Opera has a BIG "share-of-market" on MOBILE DEVICES as well, & is big in EUROPE (though stats don't tend to show it, because like many others, I tend to "IDENTIFY AS IE" in Opera, so I get somewhat better "IE based" page renderings on SOME sites (this happens, too bad) & that's something others s

"Whether you like it or not, Opera is *massive* in Europe and has a far greater market share than you'd like to believe." - by A Friendly Troll (1017492) on Tuesday January 19, @05:28PM (#30825616)

Per my subject-line above: Well, I BELIEVE YOU, & here are the reasons as to why:

====

A.) For SPEED (& even in javascript for the LONGEST time, until FF's new engines took its place (until Opera 10.50 @ least, because that's gotten a decent "boost" in that area -> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/22/1911216 (not that it matters though, speeding up javascript is like asking to get infected by malscripted sites &/or adbanners faster imo @ least - that of a "POV" of PC security, mostly)):

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

and

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cnetuk/crave/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm

AND

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

(Opera "rocked the planet" in those cases... bigtime (& ESPECIALLY ON THE MOST USED PLATFORM THERE IS, BAR-NONE, FOR PC-COMPUTING: Windows!))

----

AND, for SECURITY also (less vulnerabilities present over time than IE or FF, per SECUNIA.COM stats):

INTERNET EXPLORER 8.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/?task=advisories

(UNPATCHED = 4-8 / 50% (though 1 of them, the "Critical 'Out-of-Band' Cumulative Update IS patched, as of about 1 hr. ago (go get it those of you that use MS OS' that is...)))

---

FIREFOX 3.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

(UNPATCHED = 0-6 / 0% (on this note, as you can see? FF had MORE advisories, over time as I noted, but... they've done a GREAT JOB in stopping that much (now, the same has to be said for their browser addons too, but that too, improves over time as well usually))

Most Critical Unpatched

There are no unpatched Secunia advisories affecting this product, when all vendor patches are applied..

----

OPERA 10.x VULNERABILITIES STATS:(01/21/2010)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/26745/?task=statistics

(UNPATCHED = 0-3 / 0% )

Most Critical Unpatched

There are no unpatched Secunia advisories affecting this product, when all vendor patches are applied..

====

Opera ROCKS, period (or, do the stats above make me a liar? I think not...) &, it's been able to pass the "ACID TESTS" for compliance to web-based standards since version 6.x iirc, & it was (iirc) actually the FIRST BROWSER (not development kit) to do so, but when counting dev kits, it was 2nd... correct me if I am "off" here on this last point though, guys, & thanks.

APK

P.S.=> Again though, I tend to believe you (& Opera has a BIG "share-of-market" on MOBILE DEVICES as well, which others seem to overlook QUITE A BIT too)... Once more, imo @ least? Well - Opera's great!

I.E.-> It took me away from being a FireFox user primarily in fact, because of it (& FF + IE have copied Opera's features RAMPANTLY over time (e.g.-> Tabbed Browsing anyone? As far as ADDONS also?? Heh, a LOT of what FF has in browser addons, Opera already has natively (minus the CPU usage + speed hits & security vulnerabilities that webbrowser addons introduce (more than potentially too, ala Greasemonkey having that before (as only 1 single example)))... apk

"Opera's built-in ad and JavaScript blocking isn't nearly as convenient as Adblock+ or NoScript." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 12, @05:11PM (#30743544)

How difficult is right-clicking on a page, & using the popup menu items of EDIT SITE PREFERENCES to control cookies, frames, popups, scripts, or other content types, as well as the browser type you identify as?

(Couple those built-in features of Opera with a custom HOSTS file, which uses 0 cpu cycles (unlike browser add ons, which also have their share of security vulnerabities issues too @ times) since it is only a filter really! HOSTS files are also easily edited via any text editor like notepad.exe (or easily turned on/off by simply renaming the HOSTS file), and you have complete & easily controlled & edited access to most anything "web" online using a HOSTS file, AND on a "per-site" basis (& then your firewall + antivirus/antispyware combination does the rest pretty much)).

APK

P.S.=> Plus, generally, Opera has been found faster OVERALL than Mozilla/Firefox browsers (and even on Javascript processing, in the past, such as is shown here -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win and did so again, even more recently (06.2009) here too -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49302491,00.htm

However, afaik & lately, FF took the lead in javascript processing ONLY afaik, but has it? See, check this site's results on that note of javascript processing speeds also -> http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/ ...

Thus, Opera 10.50 MAY change that back to Opera taking the lead there once more IF ff took another "temporary lead" too!

Opera 10.5 is available here -> http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/index.dml/tag/10.5 for testing that on your own...

(Even though javascript is the "gateway" to most of what has been infecting people the past few years now more than older methods of infecting others online by malware makers/hackers-crackers etc. et al)... apk

"This was by design. Everything which could be moved to a plugin was. Of course, some things have slipped back into the browser, but the idea was to cut down the bloat." - by Philip_the_physicist (1536015) on Saturday August 22, @02:55AM (#29154011)

See subject-line above, & test for yourself - Opera can do javascript blocking, popup blocking, cookie blocking: AND ON A "PER-SITE BASIS", easily (via right-click on any website you wish & by setting "per site preferences", rather than GLOBAL ones only), & AS A "NATIVE BUILT-IN FEATURESET", not via addons (which only increase memory consumption & reduce browser speed (especially IF you load TOO MANY in FireFox, been there myself before is why I state that much))...

AND, Opera does so, with less memory consumption, by far (vs. FF or IE)... Here's what I see, on this note:

----

OPERA 10.10 BETA MEMORY FOOTPRINT (I use this, vs. Opera 9.6x - Working set, 1 tab open only, google main page):

24,488mb Working Set (via Process Explorer)

----

MICROSOFT INTERNET EXPLORER 8.x (Working set, 1 tab open only, google main page):

30,304mb Working Set (via Process Explorer)

----

MOZILLA MINEFIELD NIGHTLY BUILD (I use this vs. FF 3.52, & no addons loaded either, which would make this figure even MORE - Working set, 1 tab open only, google main page):

55,972mb Working Set (via Process Explorer)

----

"Read 'em & weep", I supposed... Opera does what the others do (& first, tabbed browsing anyone?), & for LESS... thus, "less IS truly MORE"...

NOW, as far as OVERALL web-browser performance? Opera "swept the floor" with the competition on THAT NOTE, as well, see here:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

(Sure, Mozilla may have passed Opera in terms of JavaScript parsing speeds, but for years, it was NOT FASTER (Opera was)... but what is the gain there exactly? Since JavaScript's been shown to essentially be "the harbinger of doom" the past few years now in being the MAIN MALWARE DISTRIBUTION LAYER ONLINE in terms of bad adbanner code &/or malicious code on websites? Maybe it helps on ecommerce type pages or online banking page performance (where you actually absolutely NEED javascript running in order to use those types of pages), but, it only means it will get folks infected faster really... I don't understand this "web 2.0" craze, because they ought to fix the busted DOM in javascript first, before making javascript processing faster... imo, @ least!)

APK

P.S.=> Opera's also CONSISTENTLY led in less "known unpatched security vulnerabilities", per the stats kept by SECUNIA.COM, as follows (this is consistent for YEARS now no less, w/ Opera @ 0% most of the time, & FF + IE not @ 0% usually):

----

Vulnerability Report: Opera 9.x

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/10615/

0% (0 of 22 Secunia advisories)

----

Vulnerability Report: Mozilla Firefox 3.5.x

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/25800/

0% (0 of 2 Secunia advisories)

----

Vulnerability Report: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8.x

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/

50% (2 of 4 Secunia advisories)

----

FireFox "surprises me", this round (usually, I found that FF has a couple over time usually (been doing posts like this one since 2005 here & elsewhere is why I state that) today... good job to the FF team (now, time to work on that memory footprint is all, so it's competitive w/ that of Opera), but, IE8 still has a couple outstanding (but, this is BETTER THAN USUAL for MS on this account)... so, they're ALL "getting better" on this front @ least! apk

"since they are insignificant in the browser market I'd probably do the same thing. This is a lame piece of news, companies blow larger deals on much sillier situations than this. It's just Opera trying to drum up some users." - by sulfide (1382739) on Tuesday July 21, @08:53AM (#28768555)

Not knocking FireFox/Mozilla really, they do a nice product & I've worked with their teams fixing bugs on various sites etc. et al, but... they're NO OPERA, in terms of performance, memory footprint, speed overall consistently, & security vulnerabilities patching (as well as meeting standards, but, here? FF seems to do more pages 'correctly', but, that's a matter of useragent string as a fix usually (report as IE, hassles go away many times), + webpage devs building MOSTLY around IE &/or FireFox instead)...

Considering Opera's OVERALL faster (when all factors are tested, Opera USUALLY comes out "on top" of the competition, for more speed & efficiency in various tests of browser speed (such as this one -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html + others such as -> http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/ & more (available upon request, just ask, I will put them out))?

It keeps Opera's competition on their toes, so-to-speak - they "steal" ideas from Opera, rampantly, & yes FireFox has surpassed Opera in javascript parsing + processing speeds lately, but, that same "gain" turned up a loss in the next url below (1st one):

AND, that Opera is overall the most secure (i.e.-> consistently bearing less known & unpatched security vulnerabilities, for YEARS now no less, this HAS been the case) than BOTH of its main competitors in FireFox (yes, even v.3.51 lately, has "holes again", per this url from here @ /. no less) -> New Firefox Vulnerability Revealed http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/07/19/169206/New-Firefox-Vulnerability-Revealed & Microsoft Internet Explorer -> http://secunia.com/advisories/product/21625/ vs. Opera -> http://secunia.com/advisories/product/10615/

That anyone, with ANY SENSE, that is, knows which webbrowser not only performs the best, pound for pound, but also which one keeps you safest online (& has features natively "built-in" that other webbrowsers have to use addons for, or imitate, to achieve the same levels of excellence in 1 package)...

APK

P.S.=> Lastly, considering Opera generally makes passing the "ACID tests" (for browser std.s compliance) a snap usually, & they are usually the first OR amongst the first that pass it? Well... to quote Microsoft? "Where do YOU want to go, today?"... Opera! apk

"Opera is a phenomenal browser." - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 04, @06:28PM

Per my subject-line above? Well, I've been saying the same as you have, & for years now (since around 2001 really before I came here around 2005)!

Evidences thereof are here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=286721&cid=20452183 about version 9.23, & here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=367219&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=21434061 about version 9.24, & here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169309&cid=14112880 about version 8.51 (when it became FREE shortly after that) & before that!

Let's put it THIS way: When others COPY YOU? Only 1 saying applies - "Imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery", & just about everyone knows where tabbed browsing came from (Opera), & where other webbrowsers got their ideas for to use it also... answer IS Opera!

Opera? Hey - it truly is "the good stuff"!

AND?

Opera's been shown in tests to be consistently overall FASTER than other webbrowsers, in tests such as this one -> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win & ESPECIALLY in Windows (the MOST USED OS THERE IS, bar none)...

Opera's also been shown to be more standards compliant than its competition (passing the ACID tests @ the same time as others, or before others even)!

Opera's lastly (but not least) been shown to consistently bear less "bugs" in the way of security vulnerabilities as well, per test results I noted in the url's above from SECUNIA & the like...

(Hey - What more could somebody want?)

Typically, as far as "programmatic efficiency" also (not just for speed)? Opera's the browser that though it bears more features "natively" (meaning without addons)?? It occupies LESS MEMORY than its competitors also... & starts up faster to boot!

Can't beat it!

APK

P.S.=> Others have said it here in this thread though, & it's true: MOST of the others are pretty damn good though (especially FireFox imo @ least, & they are great in particular @ fixing bugs fast, I have helped they in this capacity in the past & they fixed what I noted in less than 1 day's time (regarding a home-grown message board over @ NTCompatible.com a few years back to which they responded to myself, AND OUR FORUMS THERE, in person no less - talk about fast, personable service! What I like about FireFox is their wealth of addons (for myriad purposes))... Opera has an addon widgets community, but, it's NOT as "fast moving/growing" as that of FireFox... still, what is my "weapon-of-choice" online? The truly "Superior Warrior", in Opera! apk

Is this perfomance due to the innovative use of the onload function or is this some new way of rendering web pages and starting the clock later?

Here's a very comprehensive rant I gave a while back, along with links to other well-documented rants:

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1105033&cid=26614099

I particularly recommend this link:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/

Going through that site with IE and any other browser is a seriously eye-opening experience. ;-)

No? What's that? Microsoft closed out the bugs as "works as intended?" Fail.

Something to credit Microsoft for

In case it's not clear, I have a firey hatred for IE8. Not so much the product itself, but what it represents. What it represents is a flagpole in the ground stating, "We're going to stand in the way of progress for our own selfish reasons".

While I can understand that Microsoft feels that the market is slipping from their grasp, I cannot support their methods of attempting to compete. Which is to say that they are using their power to prevent competition rather than building a superior product. As Joel pointed out in his excellent article on the Windows API being lost:

Which means, suddenly, Microsoft's [Windows] API doesn't matter so much. Web applications don't require Windows.

It's not that Microsoft didn't notice this was happening. Of course they did, and when the implications became clear, they slammed on the brakes. Promising new technologies like HTAs and DHTML were stopped in their tracks. The Internet Explorer team seems to have disappeared; they have been completely missing in action for several years. There's no way Microsoft is going to allow DHTML to get any better than it already is: it's just too dangerous to their core business, the rich client. The big meme at Microsoft these days is: "Microsoft is betting the company on the rich client." You'll see that somewhere in every slide presentation about Longhorn. Joe Beda, from the Avalon team, says that "Avalon, and Longhorn in general, is Microsoft's stake in the ground, saying that we believe power on your desktop, locally sitting there doing cool stuff, is here to stay. We're investing on the desktop, we think it's a good place to be, and we hope we're going to start a wave of excitement..."

If you truly want to understand what is wrong with this browser, take some time and go through these examples:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/wrongWithIE/

Those only scratch the surface of what is really wrong with IE and Microsoft's stance on improving their web browser. For further reference, RC1 of IE8 gets a 20/100 on ACID3. This compares poorly to FireFox3's 56-59/100, Webkit nightly's 100/100, and Opera dev version's 100/100(!).

Developers need to band together and stop hacking our sites for IE. Users who wish to use IE should either be directed toward download links for one of the many alternatives, or forced to deal with a degraded view of the site with a polite comment to upgrade. And by degraded, I mean "it works, but looks awful". If that right there doesn't sell users on getting an alternative browser, I don't know what will.

(Yes, I am aware that many businesses can't take the hit. But we have to start somewhere. And that somewhere can easily be everything from your personal site to your new venture that's betting on early adopters of advanced web technology. IE's market share is already plummeting. If we can get enough momentum, we can near-eliminate this unsightly browser from the web. Remember Netscape 4's inability to keep up? This is the exact same situation all over again, except this time the solution is not a total mono-culture.)

It would be far better if Microsoft provided a restricted simple browser that could be used to download other software - a sort of graphical version of lynx.

A simple and restricted browser? IE6 perhaps? We already have it and look what it does.

"So, we don't like the current stats because they make us look bad; so lets try to create a new "standard" which will make us look better? A standard that can only really be applied to open source, because you can't see the bug count in closed source?

Wow. That really smells." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 05, @05:09AM (#24064781)

Agreed, 110%... instead of WASTING TIME doing that (well, there is no guarantee that Rich Mogull can actually DO anything more than that, let alone code to help the Mozilla dev team, OR even actively test the program trying to screw it up, finding another form of 'bug', not just security ones), fix the known unpatched security issues & you do NOT have to go about this b.s., period...

AS IT STANDS, NOW TODAY/CURRENTLY?

-----
SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 07/04/2008 - "4th July U.S.A."):
-----

Opera 9.51 (new release) security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

-----

FireFox 3.x security advisories @ SECUNIA (100% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/19089/

-----

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (34% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

-----

Those %'s are the latest for FireFox 3.x, IE7 after last "patch Tuesday" from MS with the "CUMULATIVE IE UPDATES" they have (see the security downloads URL I post in the 12 steps above to secure yourself), & Opera 9.51... ALL, "latest/greatest" models.

So, as you can see? Well, NOT ONLY IS OPERA MORE SECURE/BEARING LESS SECURITY VULNERABILITIES?

It's faster too, on just about ANYTHING a browser does, & is probably the MOST standards compliant browser under the sun (not counting HTML dev tools). This is borne out in these tests:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

AND, yes others (most recently in Javascript parsing speeds, oddly enough, lol... given the topic of my post here that is), right here:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

NEW NEWS/NEWSFLASH: FF3 is "king of the heap" here now, in javascript parsing speeds, but of what gain is this? Security risks abound in running javascript on "every site under the sun"... limiting it to sites you absolutely NEED it for is the way, IF you wish to stay safer online that is.

----

Opera's just more std.'s compliant - for example, having passed all the ACID (2/3 before anyone on the latter & one of the first for the former no less), plus it's faster + MULTIPLATFORM, & more secure than the others out there - thus, it's an "all-around" overall best solution!

-----

QUESTION - So, "where do you want to go today?"...

ANSWER = Opera (if you're into speed, security, & std.'s compliance + using a webbrowser that runs on most any platform out there for computing is where).

APK

P.S.=> Thank goodness the poster before myself can "see", & cut thru the fog of lies/crap this really is... fix the bugs? No reason to have to do such stupidity... apk

You're wrong.

I'm typing this from Opera with 36 tabs open using ~155MB of RAM. These aren't all just small mostly text pages, either. They've got graphics and CSS and content and media...

Not to mention Opera actually stores a pre-rendered version of your history as to make navigating back and forth instant along with all sorts of other fun stuff, like hanging on to multiple closed tabs so you can just hit "Edit->Undo" and open them back up if you close them by mistake.

Firefox is just bloated. Always has been, probably always will be. I don't know why everyone's so damn excited about it... all they've really done in the latest release is make it more like Opera.

That stupid as fuck address bar thing? Been in Opera for a little while (was only officially released in 9.5). And actually supports searching the in-page text as well, as Firefox plans to implement eventually (fairly far down in the comments).

Speed? Opera has been pretty significantly faster than all these other browsers for a long time. One version of Opera or another holds the winning speed in almost every catagory across all the OSs tested (Windows, Mac, Linux).

Opera incudes a mail client, news reader, bittorrent client, a bunch of functionality only available in FF as plugins (mouse gestures, anyone?) and some I'm not even sure is available like tab thumbnail previews, full MDI and ACTUAL USEFUL TAB ORDERING. You'd be amazed how much time you can save when hitting Ctrl+Tab takes you to your most recently used tab instead of just whatever one happens to be next in the list. It also has the option to open new tabs next to your current one so that all of your related tabs will stay together.

All of this, and Opera's download is STILL smaller than Firefox's and it's STILL a faster browser and STILL has better standards compliance.

ND

"So simple a grandmother can use it" - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 17, @08:57AM (#23445002) Do you want to keep grandma safe online though, especially online TODAY (virus/spyware/trojan ridden hell @ times online), is the question:

=====
SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 05/14/2008):
=====

Opera 9.27 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

----

FireFox 2.0.0.14 security advisories @ SECUNIA (17% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

----

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (36% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

----

Those %'s are the latest for FireFox 2.0.0.14, IE7 after last "patch Tuesday" from MS with the "CUMULATIVE IE UPDATES" they have (see the security downloads URL I post in the 12 steps above to secure yourself), & Opera 9.27... all latest/greatest models.

So, as you can see? NOT ONLY IS OPERA MORE SECURE/BEARING LESS SECURITY VULNERABILITIES?

It's faster too, on just about ANYTHING a browser does, & is probably the MOST standards compliant browser under the sun (not counting HTML dev tools). This is borne out in these tests:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

AND, yes others (most recently in Javascript parsing speeds), right here:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

Opera's just more std.'s compliant - for example, having passed all the ACID (2/3 before anyone on the latter & one of the first for the former no less), plus it's faster + MULTIPLATFORM, & more secure than the others out there - thus, it's an "all-around" overall best solution!

QUESTION - So, "where do you want to go today?"...

ANSWER = Opera (if you're into speed, security, & std.'s compliance + using a webbrowser that runs on most any platform out there for computing is where).

APK

P.S.=> Especially for "grandma's sake"...

Now, don't get me wrong - I like FireFox too!

Overall, it's a great piece of work overall & their fix team is F A S T when you notify them of site incompatibilities bugs etc. (I did so a few years back for NTCompatible.com, due to the fact they have their own unique "homemade" board engine, that's actually pretty decent, for their forums - FF's team wrote me that day, fixed it later that day, & came to visit us the next day even (talk about personable service!))

However - FF's team really does need to nail the "bugs" (security vulnerabilities) down more is all, for me to use it, & to trust it for even grandma online... apk

"Yeah, Opera can do it" - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26, @05:23PM (#22874326) Yes, they can & HAVE: OPERA PASSES ACID3 TEST FIRST:

http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2008/03/26/opera-and-the-acid3-test

AND, Opera's fsster than its competitors, OVERALL on the most OS platforms (since it is multiplatform, like FF but NOT IE (or as uch so in IE that is, since it runs on MacOS X too, but NOT Linux/*NIX (even on Javascript processing too (as well as commonly being accepted as "the world's fastest webbrowser program" in Opera, on ALL/other fronts, evidenced below in legitimate testing))):

BROWSER SPEED TEST COMPARISON:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

JAVASCRIPT PROCESSING SPEED TEST:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

(RECENTLY/HOWEVER - This category of Javascript processing speed MAY has FireFox in 1st place, currently, in THIS category (for now that is), & via their FF3 beta, IIRC!))

AND, Opera's more secure also:

SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 03/28/2008):

Opera 9.26 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

FireFox 2.0.0.13 security advisories @ SECUNIA (18% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (35% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

----------

"but isn't going to release the capability -- wonderful." - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26, @05:23PM (#22874326) The development temn @ Opera, WAIT until something is done, & done right - unlike their competition, as is evidneced by the amount of security holes & vulnerabilities present in them (including Mozilla variants AND Ms IE) noted below:

(By the way - IF you read the above URL? The Opera team will be releasing the build this week... look for one past nightly snapshot .9841!)

----------

"Safari 3.1 is a full release" - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26 Yea, full alright - SAFARI IS FULL OF SECURITY HOLES:

Safari 3.1 For Windows Violates Its Own EULA, Vulnerable To Hacks

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/27/129236

(That is VERY recent also, like the past 1-2 days - FAR from "stale" news, that above - granted, NOW it's patched, but the point's there!)

----------

"and Firefox is a publicly available beta release" - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26 That is again, FULL of holes, per the evidences above (& not as fast as Opera is on ALL possibly tested fronts, as noted in ths URL below):

----------

"In my book Opera is losing the race. The race is silly, but Opera is still losing" - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26, @05:23PM (#22874326) Based on ALL of the data above, which IS easily verified & from reputable sources? I'd have to say your book needs revision...

APK

"Yeah, Opera can do it" - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26, @05:23PM (#22874326) Yes, they can & HAVE: OPERA PASSES ACID3 TEST FIRST:

http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2008/03/26/opera-and-the-acid3-test

AND, Opera's fsster than its competitors, OVERALL on the most OS platforms (since it is multiplatform, like FF but NOT IE (or as uch so in IE that is, since it runs on MacOS X too, but NOT Linux/*NIX (even on Javascript processing too (as well as commonly being accepted as "the world's fastest webbrowser program" in Opera, on ALL/other fronts, evidenced below in legitimate testing))):

BROWSER SPEED TEST COMPARISON:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

JAVASCRIPT PROCESSING SPEED TEST:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

(RECENTLY/HOWEVER - This category of Javascript processing speed MAY has FireFox in 1st place, currently, in THIS category (for now that is), & via their FF3 beta, IIRC!))

AND, Opera's more secure also:

SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 11/29/2007):

Opera 9.26 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

FireFox 2.0.0.13 security advisories @ SECUNIA (18% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (35% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

----------

"but isn't going to release the capability -- wonderful." - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26, @05:23PM (#22874326) The development temn @ Opera, WAIT until something is done, & done right - unlike their competition, as is evidneced by the amount of security holes & vulnerabilities present in them (including Mozilla variants AND Ms IE) noted below:

(By the way - IF you read the above URL? The Opera team will be releasing the build this week... look for one past nightly snapshot .9841!)

----------

"Safari 3.1 is a full release" - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26 Yea, full alright - SAFARI IS FULL OF SECURITY HOLES:

Safari 3.1 For Windows Violates Its Own EULA, Vulnerable To Hacks

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/27/129236

(That is VERY recent also, like the past 1-2 days - FAR from "stale" news, that above)

----------

"and Firefox is a publicly available beta release" - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26 That is again, FULL of holes, per the evidences above (& not as fast as Opera is on ALL possibly tested fronts, as noted in ths URL below):

----------

"In my book Opera is losing the race. The race is silly, but Opera is still losing" - by ceoyoyo (59147) on Wednesday March 26, @05:23PM (#22874326)

Based on ALL of the data above, which IS easily verified & from reputable sources? I'd have to say your book needs revision...

APK

To be fair, Firefox is now faster than Opera at one particular JavaScript benchmark. Opera may still be faster at rendering pages or in the JavaScript on a site you frequent. But, yes, it does look like a large increase in overall JavaScript performance for Firefox.

"use Firefox and install NoScript. When you find a site that requires JavaScript (Youtube, I'm looking at you) just add it into the allowed list" - by ladadadada (454328) on Wednesday January 09, @03:45AM (#21966160) Homepage Opera does the job, better, because it is faster & safer, first of all... see this info., first:

----

SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 12/31/2007)

Opera 9.25 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

----

Netscape 9.0.0.5 (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/14690/

----

FireFox 2.0.0.11 security advisories @ SECUNIA (26% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

----

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (33% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

----

Those %'s are the latest for FireFox 2.0.0.11, Netscape 9.0.0.5, IE7 after last "patch Tuesday" from MS with the "CUMULATIVE IE UPDATES" they have & Opera 9.25... all latest/greatest models.

So, as you can see? Well, NOT ONLY IS OPERA MORE SECURE/BEARING LESS SECURITY VULNERABILITIES?

It's faster too, on just about ANYTHING a browser does[/b], & is probably one of the MOST standards compliant browser under the sun (not counting HTML dev tools) on multiple OS platforms.

OPERA = FASTER OVERALL & ON THE MOST OS PLATFORMS TOO - This is borne out in these tests:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

AND, yes others (most recently in Javascript parsing speeds), right here:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

Opera's just more std.'s compliant, faster, & more secure (overall combined) than the others... so, "where do you want to go today?"...

----

ALL that, & WITHOUT having to use a 3rd party addon (like FireFox has in its .zpi ones), & thus, natively in its OWN featureset (fastest & safest browser there is that also passes most all standards tests well no less)...

That's done via its TOOLS menu -> Quick Preferences submenu item TO BLOCK JAVASCRIPT wholesale/universally & EASILY, first.

Secondly, IF you find a site you like that you ABSOLUTELY NEED to use Javascript (a key vector & tool used in today's attacks, even thru adbanners, just as bad ActiveX controls have been found to do, as well as Flash/Shockwave exploits also) on?

Then, heck - right click that site's page, & use Opera's native "EDIT SITE PREFENCES" popup menu item, & enable that which you need (the CONTENT &/or SCRIPTING tabs provide MOST of what you need to alter, even IFrames/Frames usage too, another present possible danger)!

(The ONLY thing NoScript MIGHT have over Opera's native feature is blocking javascript BY SOURCE, meaning some adbanners & such might show, others not, due to what YOU personally pick... & personally? That's nice, for a developer feature @ MOST imo... because in MY book @ least? Once a site's been shown to say, have BAD adbanners (but, decent content)?? I would block their adbanner servers WHOLESALE, anyhow... so, why would I want to see ANY of their banners @ that point?? To get infected???)

actually, firefox 3 does pass: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/acid/

"Ah, personally I'd choose Firefox. I lean towards the more technical side of things, anyway." - by Drive42 (444835) on Wednesday November 21, @12:45PM (#21437307) Don't you mean you lean to the INSECURE side of things? Or, is this data incorrect when comparing Opera to FireFox:

=====
SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 11/20/2007):
=====

Opera 9.24 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

----

FireFox 2.0.0.9 security advisories @ SECUNIA (29% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

----

Perhaps you meant you like to surf SLOWER (as well as less secure), per this data:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

AND, yes others (most recently in Javascript parsing speeds), right here:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

To each his own... You claim to be more on the "technical side of things" & your choice indicates you are not very technical regarding security, OR speed/efficiency.

http://blog.pavlov.net/2007/11/10/memory-fragmentation/

An interesting read on how memory fragmentation adversely affects FireFox... & why/how.

APK

P.S.=> I also recommend Opera for these reasons (less security holes period, & the 1 it had yesterday? Patched yesterday too... fast!)

SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 11/20/2007):

Opera 9.24 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

----

Netscape 9.0.0.3 (0% unpatched)

http://secunia.com/product/14690/

----

FireFox 2.0.0.9 security advisories @ SECUNIA (29% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

----

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (37% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

----

Those %'s are the latest for FireFox 2.0.0.9, Netscape 9.0.0.3, IE7 after last "patch Tuesday" from MS with the "CUMULATIVE IE UPDATES" they have (see the security downloads URL I post in the 12 steps above to secure yourself), & Opera 9.24... all latest/greatest models.

So, as you can see?

Well, NOT ONLY IS OPERA MORE SECURE/BEARING LESS SECURITY VULNERABILITIES?

It's faster too, on just about ANYTHING a browser does, & is probably the MOST standards compliant browser under the sun (not counting HTML dev tools). This is borne out in these tests:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

AND, yes others (most recently in Javascript parsing speeds, oddly enough, lol... given the topic of my post here that is), right here:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

Opera's just more std.'s compliant, faster, & more secure than the others... so, "where do you want to go today?"...

apk

If you care about security, speed and ease of use shouldn't you be running Safari?

Speed
Apple claims that Safari's HTML rendering is 1.7x faster than FF and their JavaScript is 2.4x faster on Windows. On the Mac the difference is even greater - 3.1x and 2.7x.

Ease of use
This is what Apple products are all about. They might not have all of the advanced features of Firefox and IE but they excel at simple, easy-to-use interfaces.

LOL! Ok, sure... lesser minds like to surf faster, & more securely, than they do with other browsers (AND, have all the features other browsers needs addons (which MAY or MAY NOT BE SECURELY CODED mind you)) to do!

Evidences?

====
SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 10/20/2007):
====

Opera 9.24 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

* NETSCAPE 9.0.0.3 also qualifies here, as does Opera, with 0% unpatched known bugs/issues!

----

FireFox 2.0.0.9 security advisories @ SECUNIA (25% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

----

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (40% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

----

Those %'s are the latest for FireFox 2.0.0.9, Netscape 9.0.0.3 (decent one but not as natively fully feature packed without addons as Opera is, nor is it as fast overall), & IE7 after last "patch Tuesday" from MS with the "CUMULATIVE IE UPDATES" they have (see the security downloads URL I post in the 12 steps above to secure yourself), & Opera 9.24...

All latest/greatest models.

So, as you can see?

Well, NOT ONLY IS OPERA MORE SECURE/BEARING LESS SECURITY VULNERABILITIES?

It's faster too, on just about ANYTHING a browser does, & is probably the MOST standards compliant browser under the sun (not counting HTML dev tools). This is borne out in these tests:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

AND, yes others (most recently in Javascript parsing speeds, oddly enough, lol... given the topic of my post here that is), right here:

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

Opera's just more std.'s compliant, faster, & more secure than the others... so, "where do you want to go today?"...

APK

P.S.=> We "lesser minds" of the net can only present the evidences noted above, vs. your great name-tossing wisdom... lol! apk

"5. Security without annoyances" - by webmaster404 (1148909) on Tuesday November 13, @07:21PM (#21343909)

Answer = http://forums1.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?s=9717b49a6f03fb3785d81d27ec523633&p=500261#post500261

It works.

1-2.5 hours of work, for YEARS of solid, safe, & fast uptime (with security & proofs + tools & tests to use to help you do it, that make it as simple as it gets).

Simpler than SeLinux, & FAR BETTER than its defaults.

And yes... On Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 & even VISTA, using the same principals (the least on 2k, it's too "old & different" @ varying levels (including the recent RND function issue) from the others, but it still helps it even, a hell of a lot).

Enjoy those of you that use Windows based OS once you apply it ALL fully...

APK

P.S.=> Add this to it? You're as safe as is needed on s single system (or, networked nodes even) online today, with good practices & secure softwares (especially browsers):

AN IMPORTANT POINT:

STOP JAVASCRIPT USAGE IN YOUR BROWSERS (along with ActiveX & JAVA + FLASH too) On the PUBLIC internet, PERIOD!

Why:

Fact is, that today? Well... Javascript's dangerous & can be used AGAINST you, as well as help you... it truly is, or can be, a 'double-edged sword'...

(For example - if you follow security related news, you will see that JavaScript is the key avenue being used against you in today's attacks).

If you MUST use Javascript?

Try "NoScript" (the .xpi addon for FireFox/Mozilla/NetScape 9 etc.) & let it let YOU decide sites to use it on, & then DISABLE JAVA/JAVASCRIPT globally...

(& if you use IE, trying to do the same can be a nightmare (as IE will "nag you to death" if you turn off javascript on sites that use it)).

Opera has similar functionality, ALBEIT, built into it by default as a NATIVE tool!

I.E.-> The ability to GLOBALLY block scripting tools like Javascript, BUT... to also allow it for sites you MUST use it on as exceptions to the GLOBAL rule set in Tools, Preferences menus it has on its menubar.

(Banking sites is a good example that DEMANDS you use javascript)

Opera has the NATIVE BUILT IN ABILITY to allow you to use it on sites you visit IF you must, via rightclicks on the page & "EDIT SITE PREFERENCES" popup menu submenu item that appears.

Either way? It works, & I STRONGLY recommend this. I also recommend Opera for these reasons (less security holes period, & the 1 it had yesterday? Patched yesterday too... fast!)

SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 10/20/2007):

Opera 9.24 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

FireFox 2.0.0.8 security advisories @ SECUNIA (25% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (40% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

Those %'s are the latest for FireFox 2.0.0.9, IE7 after TODAY, "patch Tuesday" from MS with the "CUMULATIVE IE UPDATES" they have (see the security downloads URL I post in the 12 steps above to secure yourself), & Opera 9.24... all latest/greatest models.

So, as you can see?

NOT ONLY IS OPERA MORE SECURE/BEARING LESS SECURITY VULNERABILITIES?

It's faster too, on just about ANYTHING a browser does, & is probably the MOST standards compliant browser under the sun (not counting HTML dev tools). This is borne out in these tests:

http://www.ho

In the Conclusions section of that site, it links to an email discussion in which they point out that the reason for this was a difference in versions of the underlying rendering engine, Gecko (1.7 vs 1.8). For a meaningful comparison, you'd have to compare a version of the Suite to a version of FF with the same Gecko version underneath.

Mozilla is working on an automated performance testing framework, Talos, as well as a suite of JavaScript performance tests; it will be interesting to see some hard numbers comparing the performance of different versions of FF as well as different apps.

In the Conclusions section of that site, it links to an email discussion in which they point out that the reason for this was a difference in versions of the underlying rendering engine, Gecko (1.7 vs 1.8). For a meaningful comparison, you'd have to compare a version of the Suite to a version of FF with the same Gecko version underneath.

Mozilla is working on an automated performance testing framework, Talos, as well as a suite of JavaScript performance tests; it will be interesting to see some hard numbers comparing the performance of different versions of FF as well as different apps.

Are you completely uninformed or are you being intentionally untruthful here?

Asa, I normally agree with you on most things, but I think you're being untruthful here.

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

The original goal, that I helped define in early 2002, was to make a browser that could actually compete with IE and gain market share where the feature bloated and designed by committee Mozilla Application Suite had failed. We didn't skimp on features and included many features, bringing it up and beyond parity with IE, that the suite never had.

That sure wasn't the goal I saw. The original Phoenix work came from mainly Blake Ross complaining that he didn't agree with the committee designing the Suite. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think there were a few other names involved, but Blake is the one I remember being most vocal at the time. He stripped the browser down to not much more than a url entry box and the back, forward, reload, and stop buttons. Every single feature he hesitated on adding back in due to size and/or speed concerns. To the point that "offline mode" was an extension, even though the only part of that functionality actually in the extension was the UI for it. Perhaps you disagree with my choice of words in calling it minimalist before, but he sure was trying to keep it to a very small feature set.

Horseshit. We cut launch time and new window time in half in just a few months. We cut the download size by almost 300%. Simply removing the other app XUL overlays was a huge performance win all by itself.

And at this time period, you were just getting to the point of putting things like the history functionality back in. When you cut out 90% of the functionality, of course it's going to be smaller and faster. I also remember the days when the Gecko engine was going by it's original Raptor codename. It was extremely small and fast back then - but it also wasn't very usable, so you couldn't compare it to anything.

Again, this is just bullshit. Go back and read the Phoenix 0.1 release notes. "Phoenix is not your father's Mozilla browser. It's a lean and fast browser that doesn't skimp on features." Shall I repeat it. "a lean and fast browser that doesn't skimp on features." Where in that statement of purpose do you read that the goal was to make a minimalist browser?

I did go back. And apparently I found the confusion. I forgot that it Phoenix wasn't the first name. I'm remembering back to the days when it was known as mozilla/browser. That was around for a while before it got the Phoenix name.

When we shipped Firefox 1.0, the Windows version clocked in at a 4.7MB download compared to the Suite's 13MB download. Firefox 1.0's startup time on low to medium end systems was half that of the Suite and a noticeable improvement even on the fastest systems. Firefox 1.0's memory usage at startup was about 10% better than the Suites, mostly thanks to a smaller overall UI footprint (they both used the same Gecko rendering engine which makes up about 90% of the overall program size).

Let's be fair. I just dug around the mozilla.org ftp and checked the installers. The largest Suite release was under 12 MB, with most releases being under 11 MB. Second, the default download on the web site was usually the net installer, which was a 250 KB download. If you did the browser only install, it was about a 6 MB download. And you probably also know that the Firefox installer uses 7zip while the Suite installer used zip. Firefox installers built with zip were around 6 MB, making it similar in size to the Suite's browser.

Also, I'm sure you've seen the (several year old now) browser speed tests that showed FireFox to be slower than Mozilla at just about everything.

But, in the end, the proof is in the pudding. There are about 130 to 140 million Firefox users today, coming up on our third m

Are you completely uninformed or are you being intentionally untruthful here?

Asa, I normally agree with you on most things, but I think you're being untruthful here.

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

The original goal, that I helped define in early 2002, was to make a browser that could actually compete with IE and gain market share where the feature bloated and designed by committee Mozilla Application Suite had failed. We didn't skimp on features and included many features, bringing it up and beyond parity with IE, that the suite never had.

That sure wasn't the goal I saw. The original Phoenix work came from mainly Blake Ross complaining that he didn't agree with the committee designing the Suite. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think there were a few other names involved, but Blake is the one I remember being most vocal at the time. He stripped the browser down to not much more than a url entry box and the back, forward, reload, and stop buttons. Every single feature he hesitated on adding back in due to size and/or speed concerns. To the point that "offline mode" was an extension, even though the only part of that functionality actually in the extension was the UI for it. Perhaps you disagree with my choice of words in calling it minimalist before, but he sure was trying to keep it to a very small feature set.

Horseshit. We cut launch time and new window time in half in just a few months. We cut the download size by almost 300%. Simply removing the other app XUL overlays was a huge performance win all by itself.

And at this time period, you were just getting to the point of putting things like the history functionality back in. When you cut out 90% of the functionality, of course it's going to be smaller and faster. I also remember the days when the Gecko engine was going by it's original Raptor codename. It was extremely small and fast back then - but it also wasn't very usable, so you couldn't compare it to anything.

Again, this is just bullshit. Go back and read the Phoenix 0.1 release notes. "Phoenix is not your father's Mozilla browser. It's a lean and fast browser that doesn't skimp on features." Shall I repeat it. "a lean and fast browser that doesn't skimp on features." Where in that statement of purpose do you read that the goal was to make a minimalist browser?

I did go back. And apparently I found the confusion. I forgot that it Phoenix wasn't the first name. I'm remembering back to the days when it was known as mozilla/browser. That was around for a while before it got the Phoenix name.

When we shipped Firefox 1.0, the Windows version clocked in at a 4.7MB download compared to the Suite's 13MB download. Firefox 1.0's startup time on low to medium end systems was half that of the Suite and a noticeable improvement even on the fastest systems. Firefox 1.0's memory usage at startup was about 10% better than the Suites, mostly thanks to a smaller overall UI footprint (they both used the same Gecko rendering engine which makes up about 90% of the overall program size).

Let's be fair. I just dug around the mozilla.org ftp and checked the installers. The largest Suite release was under 12 MB, with most releases being under 11 MB. Second, the default download on the web site was usually the net installer, which was a 250 KB download. If you did the browser only install, it was about a 6 MB download. And you probably also know that the Firefox installer uses 7zip while the Suite installer used zip. Firefox installers built with zip were around 6 MB, making it similar in size to the Suite's browser.

Also, I'm sure you've seen the (several year old now) browser speed tests that showed FireFox to be slower than Mozilla at just about everything.

But, in the end, the proof is in the pudding. There are about 130 to 140 million Firefox users today, coming up on our third m

"I'm surprise to you can still use the web today without javascript... or at least you are missing a great part of it." - by JcMorin (930466) on Monday October 29, @04:01PM (#21160875)

I can use the web just fine without scripting (unless its a banking site, or shopping site), & doing that in addition to what's here:

http://forums1.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?s=13257d4e042c172538d3aa73872bc7e2&p=500261#post500261

Allows me to do so, virus/spyware free, 110%... for more than a decade now.

----

"I think the solution is to have secure browser... nothing more." - by JcMorin (930466) on Monday October 29, @04:01PM (#21160875)

See my P.S., & ask, and ye shall receive... fastest one too!

APK

P.S.> Been saying this for years now:

STOP JAVASCRIPT USAGE IN YOUR BROWSERS (along with ActiveX & JAVA) On the PUBLIC internet, PERIOD!

Why? Well, read on:

Fact is, that today? Well... Javascript's dangerous & can be used AGAINST you, as well as help you... it truly is, or can be, a 'double-edged sword'...

(For example - if you follow security related news, you will see that JavaScript is the key avenue being used against you in today's attacks).

f you MUST use Javascript?

Try "NoScript" (the .xpi addon for FireFox/Mozilla/NetScape 9 etc.) & let it let YOU decide sites to use it on, & then DISABLE JAVA/JAVASCRIPT globally...

(& if you use IE, trying to do the same can be a nightmare (as IE will "nag you to death" if you turn off javascript on sites that use it)).

Opera has similar functionality, ALBEIT, built into it by default as a NATIVE tool!

I.E.-> The ability to GLOBALLY block scripting tools like Javascript, BUT... to also allow it for sites you MUST use it on as exceptions to the GLOBAL rule set in Tools, Preferences menus it has on its menubar.

(Banking OR shopping sites are good examples that DEMAND you use javascript)

Opera has the NATIVE BUILT IN ABILITY to allow you to use it on sites you visit IF you must, via rightclicks on the page & "EDIT SITE PREFERENCES" popup menu submenu item that appears.

Either way? It works, & I STRONGLY recommend this. I also recommend Opera for these reasons (less security holes period, & the 1 it had yesterday? Patched yesterday too... fast!)

----

SECUNIA DATA ON BROWSER SECURITY (dated 10/20/2007):

Opera 9.24 security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

FireFox 2.0.0.8 security advisories @ SECUNIA (25% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

IE 7 (latest cumulative update from MS) security advisories @ SECUNIA (40% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

Those %'s are the latest for FireFox 2.0.0.8, IE7 after last "patch Tuesday" from MS with the "CUMULATIVE IE UPDATES" they have (see the security downloads URL I post in the 12 steps above to secure yourself), & Opera 9.24... all latest/greatest models.

So, as you can see?

Well, NOT ONLY IS OPERA MORE SECURE/BEARING LESS SECURITY VULNERABILITIES?

It's faster too, on just about ANYTHING a browser does, & is probably the MOST standards compliant browser under the sun (not counting HTML dev tools). This is borne out in these tests:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

AND, yes others (most recently in Javascript parsing speeds, oddly enough, lol... given the topic of my post here that is), right here:

"And JFTR: Opera fanboys (the few that I've encountered) are worse than Linux, Mac and Amiga fanboys combined." - by cp.tar (871488) on Friday September 07, @06:25AM (#20505367)

Ok, but how can we NOT be, when facts like this are available, that note Opera's superiority?

To wit (quoting another user here, who had misconceptions about multithreaded design of Opera, OR even other browsers, for example):

"I'd like a multi threaded browser" - by Bert64 (520050) on Friday September 07, @05:19AM (#20505053)

Opera runs 8 threads here (per taskmgr.exe &/or process explorer) in the Windows model!

Hey... check it yourself! Taskmgr.exe &/or Process Explorer (microsoft tools) can show you this all, easily...

---

Some added "FYI" for those of you comparing FireFox/IE/Opera (this one is about security, super-important in today's online world, especially):

Opera security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

FireFox security advisories @ SECUNIA (43% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

IE 7 security advisories @ SECUNIA (56% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

---

Also, as far as speed comparisons? This is one that ALSO EXTOLLS OPERA's SPEED/EFFICIENCY BENEFITS over FF &/or IE here, & ON MULTIPLE OS PLATFORMS:

BROWSER SPEED COMPARISONS ON MANY TASKS & MULTIPLE OPERATING SYSTEM PLATFORMS:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

And, especially on Win32 OS', the most used PC platform/OS there is... & that one has MANY MORE evidences on many more types of browser activities, than this one that tests Opera 9.50's superiority in JavaScript parse & process (which this report on Opera here @ /. today, is about, ONLY):

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

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The best parts are, OPERA IS FREE (as in BEER), & Opera has ALL of the features a body can need, WITHOUT using addons (though it has that via Opera widgets), & YET, Opera is LIGHTER ON MEMORY than FireFox &/or IE typically!

(You can check memory residency yourselves by loading FF, & Opera (& IE for Windows users) & test memory size occupancy via taskmgr.exe (or similar tools like Process Explorer) yourselves & see what I mean... I did so with FF 2.0.0.6, IE 7.x, & Opera 9.23.)

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Opera also passed the "ACID2" test, for standards compliance (it is not alone here, but is over IE & FF, & it was the 6th browser to do so):

http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/03/12/1416222.shtml

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And, Opera had features (like tabbed browsing) that other browsers (major 2 others in IE/FF) copied from it... note the article below!

FIREFOX MYTHS:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/FirefoxMyt hs.html

Yes, Opera had tabbed browsing before IE &/or FF, & other features as well.

Opera comes FULLY LOADED features-wise, with a built in email client, IRC client, RSS client, & more + yet eats less RAM than others, & addons only bloat IE &/or FF even more memory-occupancy-wise. (AND YES, Opera has addons as well in "opera widgets" (like .xpi addons for FF)...

APK

P.S.=> The order in which both dev tools &/or browsers passed ACID2 compliance, is as follows: Safari #1, Prince #2, Shiira #3, Konqueror #4, OPERA #5, iCab #6 ... Thanks here goes to rh0 (member 1

Safari is fast indeed, but take Safari benchmarks with huge grain of salt, because Safari cheats by triggering onload event before load and rendering completly finishes.

Totally, 110% agreed... Opera truly is, "the superior warrior", as far as webbrowsers go, by ALL means!

OK. I'll see your opinion and I'll raise you one opinion. Firefox truly is "the superior warrior" as far as web browsers go, by all means.

(& the best part is, Opera has ALL of the features a body can need, WITHOUT using addons (though it has that via Opera widgets)

I can say the same of Firefox. It has all the features a body can need, read everything I need, without using extensions.

& is LIGHTER ON MEMORY than FireFox &/or IE typically!)

You can check memory residency yourselves by loading FF, & Opera (& IE for Windows users) & test memory size occupancy via taskmgr.exe (or similar tools like Process Explorer) yourselves & see what I mean...

Your mileage may vary.

Firefox here has 63,332K been open all day, currently have 5 tabs open, been open and used all day. Just opened Opera and quickly browsed my frequently used websites all in a single tab, 58,720K. Can't say I see a difference with this very informal test nor can I say that I've ever had a memory consumption problem with Firefox.

A couple weekends ago I decided to catch up on what's what and who's who on Stargate using Wikipedia. While reading I opened most linked articles in new tabs to be perused after reading and closing the current tab. I eventually had literally hundreds of tabs open with no apparent slow down (2.4 GHz P4 500M memory).

Opera's also faster than other browsers (best overall test I know of for that is here):

BROWSER SPEED COMPARISONS ON MANY TASKS & MULTIPLE OPERATING SYSTEM PLATFORMS:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

Again, your mileage may very. I experience a perceptible delay for initial page loading in Opera despite setting a lower First Update Delay setting in opera:config. In my experience, Opera also lags behind in the last remaining images to be loaded on a page. It also annoys me to no end when I open new tabs via links in Opera, if the page does not start loading immediately the tab and URL is blank. If the page is slow to load and you switch to the tab you see nothing. Its nice to know what it is that you are waiting for. If you open a link in the same page and it does not immediately start loading the page there is almost no visual feedback that any action has been taken. As far as you know, you never clicked on the link.

Opera also passed the "ACID2" test, for standards compliance...

Whoa , stop right there. Acid does not guarantee conformance with any specification as not all web standards are tested. It does not gauge the actual level of standards compliance, only that the browser developers focused on at least this small part of compliance. It only tests those things that the creators "feel" will be important to web developers (i.e. their opinion of what's important).

As a side note, it was first Safari then Konqueror that passed both non-official builds and officially released builds before Opera even passed in a weekly build (not an official release). Why bother stating it was the first if you can't even take the few second required to check your facts?

And, Opera had features other browsers (major 3) copied from it: ...
(AND, yes folks: Opera had tabbed browsing before IE, or FireFox/Mozilla AND YES, it can be extended with addons, if you look up "Opera Widgets")...

I could not care less when each of these browsers gained tabbed browsing. We are living in the here and now. It is now that this feature is in the spotlight and desired by users. Now that all major browsers sport this feature it is no longer a defining feature.

PLUS, Opera 9.23.8808 final build IS FREE + FULLY FEATURE LADEN, more than any other browser imo, without addons thrown in (as is,

http://www.apple.com/safari/

According to Apple's "objective" benchmarks, Safari and Opera are tied for everything except HTML load performance, which doesn't count because Safari cheated.

It will be interesting to see how the 9.5 performance improvements affect this :-)