A Talk With Opera CEO

With several new areas of expansion for Opera The Register took a few minutes to talk to Opera CEO Jon von Tetzchner. The interview addresses several of the most recent news items on the Opera front including, the adoption to Nintendo's Wii console, several advocates switching to Firefox, and others. "We just try to focus on our side. We've always focused on a somewhat richer interface. We've had a lot of negative comments ourselves over the years; for example, when we introduced tabbed browsing a lot of people said it doesn't make sense. We've introduced things like zooming, mouse gestures and the like - and we find they find their way into other browsers; tabs found their way into IE7. We are being copied, but we would like to focus on features and giving users a good experience."

Comments

Translation: Theenking ooootseede-a zee Oopera bux

[Anonymous Coward]

Interfeeoo Sume-a ooff Oopere's lung-term bets ere-a begeenning tu pey ooffff. Zee Nurvegeeun veb peeuneer hes infested in TF und mubeele-a fur yeers, und noo Neentendu's heet Veei cunsule-a hes poot Oopera intu mure-a thun ieeght meelliun leefing ruums. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Meeni hes mede-a zee veb useble-a oon meelliuns mure-a phunes. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Und zee must recent mejur releese-a ooff FureFux hes beee met veet pooshbeck oon its perffurmunce-a, usebeelity, und secooreety. Bork bork bork!

Thees veek ve-a cooght up veet Oopera fuoonder und CEO Jun fun Tetzchner tu deescooss thees, und sume-a ooff zee thurneeer chellenges feceeng zee cumpuny. Bork bork bork!

[rinkworks.com]

Su ve-a sterted veet a beeggie-a - ves zee veb leefeeng Oopera beheend?

Isn't it joost getteeng herder tu keep up veet zee veb, ispeceeelly oon mubeele-a?

Sufftvere-a ingeeneers veell elveys feend veys tu meke-a a defeece-a seem sloo. I'm a sufftvere-a ingeeneer - I knoo I deed. Bork bork bork! Veet Oopera Meeni zeere-a ere-a sume-a theengs thet mey nut vurk, boot must theengs vurk fery qooeeckly. Bork bork bork! Ve-a deed feesooel cumpereesuns ooff Oopera Meeni in zee lebs, useeng zee seme-a vebseetes Stefe-a Jubs used et zee loonch ooff zee iPhune-a demunstreteeng hoo qooeeckly it roons oon GPRS egeeens zee iPhune-a oon Vee-Fee. Oon GPRS, Meeni is fester. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp! Ve-a deed it fur foon. Bork bork bork!

Oopera Meeni is nut zee seme-a es zee brooser yuoo hefe-a oon iPhune-a, oor desktup Oopera - zeere-a ere-a theengs Oopera cun du thet Meeni cun't du, boot fur must generel uses Meeni dues zee jub.

Undroo Broon, a beeg fun ooff Oopera, vrute-a thet he-a chuse-a tu mufe-a tu FureFux [rinkworks.com] (http://vvv.gooerdeeun.cu.uk/technulugy/2007/mer/2 2/medeea.cumment) becoose-a it ves mure-a cumpeteeble-a veet noo vebseetes, pertly ceeting Fleeckr cumpeteebility. Bork bork bork! Du yuoo feel yuoo're-a felleeng beheend?

Ve'fe-a elveys beee mufeeng in a spece-a vhere-a peuple-a cume-a up veet zeeur oovn idees ell zee teeme-a. Noo Netscepe-a 4 is oooot ooff zee merket, su cumpeteebility veet thet isn't su impurtunt; IE6 is fedeeng, vheele-a IE7 hes mure-a cumpeteebility - dues thet meun prublem hes gune-a? Es peuple-a meke-a mure-a und mure-a eppleeceshuns ve-a see-a mure-a und mure-a stunderds. Um gesh dee bork, bork! IE in perteecooler hes its oovn stooffff, boot thet's pert ooff zee reesun us, Epple-a, und Muzeella vurk oon soobmeetting noo stunderds tu zee V3C, und getteeng zeem edupted. Bork bork bork! Su ve're-a qooeete-a oopteemistic.

Oopera CEO Jun Fun Tetzchner

It's a cheeckee und igg seetooeshun, vheech meuns ve-a need tu get mure-a users. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Und ve-a ere-a. Ve-a hefe-a by fer zee must used mubeele-a veb brooser. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp! Net Eppleeceshuns' soorfey is shooeeng Meeni es zee feefft must used brooser in zee vurld und in sume-a cuoontreees it's beeteeng Sefferee, und oozeers it's beeteeng Muzeella. Zee Neentendu Veei is elsu helpeeng und ve're-a vurkeeng oon noo ferseeun cumeeng oooot. Um de hur de hur de hur.

Ve're-a elsu spendeeng teeme-a veet zee serfeeces, veet Guugle-a und Yehuu! deescoossing cumpeteebility. Bork bork bork!

Tu be-a frunk, it's nut deefffficoolt fur zeem tu meke-a thees vurk. Zeere's oone-a gooy vhu feexed boogs in Guugle-a und he-a used a JefeScreept theeng fur Oopera vheech feexed Meps und Meeel. Ve-a ere-a elsu ecteefely dueeng vhet ve-a cun - chungeeng hoo Oopera identeeffies itselff is oofftee inuoogh tu feex

Link to Page 1 of article

[AskChopper]

The above URL links to page 3 of the article. Here's the fist page http://www.theregister.com/2007/08/18/opera_ceo_in terview/

I know its monday when...

[StrahdVZ]

I read the title as "A talk with Oprah CEO". I was wondering what tech company she could possibly be a CEO of.

Re:I know its monday when...

[datapharmer]

Harpo productions. No really, look it up!

Print version of article

[xubu_caapn]

http://www.theregister.com/2007/08/18/opera_ceo_in terview/print.html

Firefox tabs

[WK2]

We've introduced things like [tabs] - and we find they find their way into other browsers; tabs found their way into IE7. We are being copied...

Translation: We did tabs, damnit! Not Firefox! I repeat: Firefox did not do tabs first! It was us!!

Re:Firefox tabs

[sarathmenon]

I'd like someone with more authority on the subject to say whether Opera or Konqueror introduced mouse gestures first. They've been there in konqueror since ever, it seems to me.

Not one item from the list looks like from outer space - all are concepts which any monkey can bring into a browser. If he doesn't like the deal he's getting these days, perhaps he should start patenting stuff or quit the software business altogether. Anyway, I am getting bored with all the Linus interviews, this is atleast a welcome change.

Re:Firefox tabs

[LWATCDR]

"Not one item from the list looks like from outer space - all are concepts which any monkey can bring into a browser. "

Yea.. Sure they do.
Everything is easy once someone else does it.

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

you know it's just as annoying to copy someone by doing everything right before they do, right?

Re:Firefox tabs

[Tangent128]

Not one item from the list looks like from outer space - all are concepts which any monkey can bring into a browser.

Look beyond the list- let me know when Firefox does Widgets, or presentations.

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

Or was NetCaptor the first with tabs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetCaptor/

Re:Firefox tabs

[ggvaidya]

If he doesn't like the deal he's getting these days, perhaps he should start patenting stuff or quit the software business [...]

... which is right about the point where I stop using their browsers, I guess. I love Opera, and one of my major reasons for doing so is that it's a well-engineered product made by a company which has always been pretty good "corporate citizens". Yes, they have strange ideas about design and advertising, but they make good products, run a sustainable business, give me a very decent browser for free, support said browser at no extra cost, and are very good at coming up with interesting new features, which have a much better record than most other software I use as being completely "fleshed out". They're also "good geeks": they don't go nuts patenting things, are pretty okay with other companies reusing and building on their ideas, allow you to download early tech previews of their software for testing and feedback, and have their browser primed for the kind of people who like having a couple of dozen tabs open at any one time - i.e. the sort who are much too fond of Wikipedia for their own good. Also, that bit you quote doesn't sound (in context) like sour grapes: Jon is pointing out that one of Opera's biggest strengths is coming up with innovative features, including mouse gestures and tabs (innovative half a decade ago). Opera 9 has several new features such as Speed Dial and Thumbnail Preview, which made things easier for me within hours of installing, so I'd say they're still doing a great job on that front.

Speaking of which, I checked Wikipedia on the mouse gestures bit; Konqueror's doesn't say when it got mouse gestures, but the mouse gestures page says Opera has had them "since version 5.11 (April 2001)", when KDE was at version 2.1. So if you can figure out when Konqueror got mouse gestures, you'll have your answer. Anecdotally, I found what might be the original patch for Opera mouse gestures in Konqueror, which would support Jon's idea of Opera as the originator.

Cheers!

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

iCab&lt/cough>

Re:Firefox tabs

[welshsocialist]

I have a feeling that Opera was not the first browser to do tabs; a browser called NetCaptor was one of the first to do so in 1997. For a detailed account, see here.

Re:Firefox tabs

[coryking]

Not one item from the list looks like from outer space - all are concepts which any monkey can bring into a browser. - Just like any monkey should know to diversify their stock portfolio. (Sharpe, 1964)

- Just like any monkey could put a steering wheel on a car (Circa 1898)

"The more original a discovery, the more obvious it seems afterwards."
- Arthur Koestler

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. That patch wasn't even included, so gestures came much later (unless you count the clunky May 2001 kgestures program which used gestures to trigger DCOP calls.)

I believe Opera had them first as I remember around 2002-2003 hearing discussions about adding universal gestures to KDE, then subsequently using the shiny new gestures. I don't recall gestures making it into KDE 2.x, but they were included early in the 3.x series. (It looks like a quick kgesture program was available the month after Opera's gestures, but was not maintained for long.) [1] Okay, there is evidence that the universal gestures (via khotkeys) were properly introduced in CVS in 2003. [2] The framework allowed (and still allows) one to save, load, and distribute gestures so that one could download the Mozilla gestures or Opera gestures.

The reason, IIRC, gestures took so long to include after the first patches (for Opera gesture, then for the Firefox/Phoenix gesture mimicking) was that KDE wanted to be able to have all applications use gestures. On the Mac, I miss using gestures in the non-Cocoa programs (which include Finder and iTunes) because it was great to use them for web browsing and file browsing.

[1] http://dot.kde.org/990672846/
[2] http://dot.kde.org/1066450520/

Re:Firefox tabs

[Lord Kano]

Everything is easy once someone else does it.

That's what I say about female college Freshmen.

LK

Re:Firefox tabs

[ceeam]

Tabs or no tabs but Opera had an MDI browser back in ~1994.

Re:Firefox tabs

[rm999]

The problem is building a business model around a product that can so easily be ripped off. Simply doesn't work; Opera realized this too late, allowing firefox to take what could have been their user base.

I mean who the hell was actually willing to use an operating system with adware built into it (or spend 30 dollars)? Not trying to troll, just stating that Opera started off with a terrible strategy, and they are paying for it now in the desktop market.

Re:Firefox tabs

[Fred_A]

It's freshpeople you insensitive clod !

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what I say about female college Freshmen.

It's freshpeople you insensitive clod !

Actually, in this case, it's freshwomen.

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

Not after someone does it, no.

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it was galeon who first introduced tabs.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re:Firefox tabs

[hkmwbz]

I'd like someone with more authority on the subject to say whether Opera or Konqueror introduced mouse gestures first.

A quick search shows that gestures were added in Opera 5.1, in April 2001.

Re:Firefox tabs

[hkmwbz]

Terrible strategy or not, Opera has had to make its own money. All other browsers are backed by some major corporation (Mozilla by several), and get a free ride. No such luxury for Opera. Then Firefox showed that you could make shitloads of money off of searches... Funny how Opera's innovation (search field) keeps the money flowing into Mozilla Corp.

Re:Firefox tabs

[jlarocco]

I mean who the hell was actually willing to use an operating system with adware built into it (or spend 30 dollars)? Not trying to troll, just stating that Opera started off with a terrible strategy, and they are paying for it now in the desktop market.

I don't know if you've noticed, but Opera isn't going for a massive userbase on PCs. Unlike Firefox, they actually have to pay their developers. And unlike Internet Explorer, they don't have a huge operating system and office suite monopoly to subsidize browser development. Opera making a huge push for PC market share wouldn't make sense, and they'd go out of business.

Their cash cow is mobile and embedded browsers, and that's what they focus on. Fortunately for those of us who use the PC version of Opera, their code is portable enough to run on desktops also.

Making their desktop browser available for free probably had more to do with publicizing the Opera name than it did with competing with Firefox and IE.

Re:Firefox tabs

[TheRaven64]

Unlike Firefox, they actually have to pay their developers. Desktop Opera and FireFox are funded in exactly the same way; by advertising revenue from using the shortcuts to search engines like Google. Every time you enter a search phrase from the browser search box, Google pays the parent company a small amount. This adds up to a lot over a few million users.

Their cash cow is mobile and embedded browsers, and that's what they focus on. With Nokia dropping Opera in favour of their own WebKit-based browser, I wonder how long they will last. Opera has always been slightly better than the competition (and a lot better at some times), but never sufficiently better to make me want to pay for it. I used the ad-supported version for a few years, but their terrible Mac version made me switch to Safari when I moved to OS X. Nokia seems to agree; they save a lot by developing a browser in-house and sharing rendering engine development with Apple, Adobe, and anyone else who uses WebKit.

Re:Firefox tabs

[Dog-Cow]

The first I know of was the GNN browser, supplied with AOL's dial-up service, GNN. This was back in the Windows 3.1 days, so early 90's. IE didn't even exist.

Re:Firefox tabs

[dunkelfalke]

opera is the best browser for a wm phone/pocket pc.

Re:Firefox tabs

[LWATCDR]

"I mean who the hell was actually willing to use an operating system with adware built into it (or spend 30 dollars)? Not trying to troll, just stating that Opera started off with a terrible strategy, and they are paying for it now in the desktop market."
Well it wasn't an operating system it was a browser. Spend $30 why not since it was a better browser than IE.
The problems that Opera faced on the Desktop where.
1. IE was free and started to define "the standard" for HTML in the internet. The majority of sites on the Web do not follow standards just to work with IE.
2. Firefox was free and pretty dang good.

Opera is still doing well in the embedded market. The Wii and the DS are good examples of places where Opera is doing well. I really like Opera but to be honest I am so used to using Firefox that Opera is an also ran for me.

Re:Firefox tabs

[warp1]

Opera (Internet suite)

Re:Firefox tabs

[pilsner.urquell]

Opera (Internet suite)

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

> - Just like any monkey should know to diversify their stock portfolio. (Sharpe, 1964)

The jury is still out on hedge funds. Warren Buffet seems to do pretty well with good old fashioned research.

Steering wheels were a gradual evolution, and predate automobiles.

Re:Firefox tabs

[rm999]

That is their NEW plan, their old plan was to do exactly what Internet explorer or firefox does. I am talking about their old plan.

And I think you underestimate how much firefox is worth. While they don't disclose the exact number, there is speculation that they make many millions of dollars from google referrals. This is money that would be in Opera's pocket if more users had switched over earlier.

Re:Firefox tabs

[Anonymous Coward]

Take "wm" (Windows Mobile) out of that sentence and the sentence is no longer true.

Re:Firefox tabs

[cecil_turtle]

Widgets aren't a feature of a browser (or shouldn't be, there's really no benefit and loads of better alternatives), and HTML presentations aren't anything new and isn't something that can't be done in any browser.

Also I love how because Opera did something before the "mainstream" browsers they claim they are the ones being copied. Opera wasn't the first browser to do tabs, mouse gestures, search bars, or extensions (/widgets/addons/whatever). They seem to be like Apple that way - claiming that somebody copied from them and not admitting that they copied it from somebody else in the first place. Gotta love it.

Re:Firefox tabs

[Tangent128]

Widgets aren't a feature of a browser (or shouldn't be, there's really no benefit and loads of better alternatives)

I'll have to disagree there; browser-based widget engines like Opera or Dashboard can provide a lot more functionality to widgets- anything that can go on a web page can be in a widget, including YouTube videos. Konfabulator-type engines are more limited. Though if there are any Gecko-based widget engines, let me know. I'd give them a try.

Re:Firefox tabs

[TheoMurpse]

perhaps he should start patenting stuff

AFAIK, software patents don't exist in Europe.

Re:Firefox tabs

[dunkelfalke]

still true because pocket pc is defined as a pda with wm.

maybe it's a naming problem

[Anonymous Coward]

In Russia, Ukraine and in Northern and East European countries we have between five per cent and 10 per cent, and some above 10 per cent share; Japan similar.

Trouble is, in America most people think that going to the opera is for losers. Maybe they should call it "Rock 'n Roll Browser" in the US.

Re:maybe it's a naming problem

[DNS-and-BIND]

Indeed, the opera as an art form in America suffers from the perception that it intentionally limits itself to a tiny audience. Indeed, most opera patrons would be quite peeved if outsiders started trampling into opera houses on a regular basis.

Re:maybe it's a naming problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I think a lot of the hatred for Opera stems from the fact that they messed up the cool naming scheme for major browsers. First you discover somewhere, then you explore it, then you conquer it, then you go there for fun. Navigator -> Explorer -> Konqueror -> Safari. I think it bodes well for the browser I'm developing right now, OverdevelopedHolidayResort.

Re:maybe it's a naming problem

[dbIII]

Trouble is, in America most people think that going to the opera is for losers. Maybe they should call it "Rock 'n Roll Browser" in the US.

I don't think so - they'll think you can win, free.

Re:maybe it's a naming problem

[MrNaz]

Hey, there's no problem with putting an opera house when enough people come there for safari. Just look, it worked for Sydney!

Re:maybe it's a naming problem

[MrNaz]

And lets not forget that when development happens, native fauna is endangered with resources are constrained and their resource consumption is restricted.

Re:maybe it's a naming problem

[Kelson]

Navigator -> Explorer -> Konqueror -> Safari.

Or maybe they should have named it after a car.

Re:maybe it's a naming problem

[zippthorne]

Opera is like "Musical Theater" except it's in a different language. If you were to watch opera in it's native country, even that distinction evaporates. I'm sure they're both fun to watch, but that doesn't make either any less ostentatious than, say.. "Pirates of the Caribbean" or "Waterworld."

The English speaking world's pretension that opera is somehow "classy" is actually a result of our cultural insecurities and the Norman occupation England.

Re:maybe it's a naming problem

[Anonymous Coward]

OverdevelopedHolidayResort - does not look like a program, it looks to be a variable..... nice style though

Facets.

[Anonymous Coward]

"We are being copied, but we would like to focus on features and giving users a good experience.""

How about alternative views of the internet?

Re:Facets.

[aichpvee]

Multi-angle websites?

Re:Facets.

[MrNaz]

Just when you thought every goatse joke had been made, you leave an opening like that. (Heh, "opening").

Re:Facets.

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't think Opera did VRML.

Speed

[ChrisMaple]

He seems to think that Opera is fast. My experience has been that although Opera renders more accurately than Firefox (1.5.0.2), Opera is a lot slower.

Re:Speed

[xubu_caapn]

it might be because opera needs qt libraries.

Re:Speed

[larry bagina]

I've heard opera's javascript interpreter was supposed to be fast. So, I just did a quick, totally non scientific (only one run, other minor activity in the background, etc) of a the slickspeed selector test, which tests various javascript libraries for their speed/accuracy. This was performed on Windows XP:

Opera (9.20/ build 8771)
246 : 3409 : 244 : 413 : 2518 : 329
Safari (3.0.3 / build 522.15.5)
322 : 1966 : 347 : 360 : 2488 : 519
Firefox (2.0.0.6) -- two times, second was with firebug enabled
397 : 10833 : 409 : 2569 : 14535 : 1100
423 : 14059 : 429 : 5188 : 14426 : 3352
ie (6.029)
4695 : 8536 : 3393 : 2379 : 17856 : 1890

Smaller numbers are faster, so opera is faster (in this test) than firefox. The toolkits, btw, are prototype, iQuery, mootools, ext, cssQuery, and dojoQuery).

Re:Speed

[Lisandro]

it might be because opera needs qt libraries.

I dunno... i use Opera 9.23 with QT compiled statically (on Linux using XFCE) and it runs quite snappier than Firefox, specially on startup/shutdown.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record on this subject, i know :) But, AFAIK, Opera is today the most useable browser out there. I like Firefox a lot, but Opera is still far superior, specially when it comes to user interfase, speed, and memory footprint.

Re:Speed

[SpeedyDX]

From my experience using the two, Opera refreshes sooner so you can see the top part of the page sooner, but loads the page slightly slower. Firefox refreshes later so you don't see the page until later, but loads the page slightly faster. The "illusion" is that Opera is faster. The vast majority of the time, the important information is located at or near the top part of the page. The fact that Opera loads the bottom part of the page slower is rendered irrelevent because of that. I'd rather be able to see the top part of the page faster.

Then again, it's down to individual use. For me, Opera is faster because of my surfing habits. For others, Firefox may be preferable.

Re:Speed

[arrrrg]

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

Re:Speed

[jstomel]

If you have a fast processor with lots of RAM this is true. But firefox starts hideously slow on an older system and is a memory hog. It all probably depends on your system configuration.

Re:Speed

[Fweeky]

See Preferences -> Advanced -> Redraw after to have it be more/less aggressive at page (re)drawing.

I can't remember or immediately find the equivilent setting in Firefox.

Re:Speed

[suv4x4]

He seems to think that Opera is fast. My experience has been that although Opera renders more accurately than Firefox (1.5.0.2), Opera is a lot slower.

If only it mattered how fast Firefox is. Since when you open few more tabs in it, it'll instantly become ultra slow or hang mid-action while waiting for who-knows-what, while no other browser (safari, ie, opera) does this.

As a heavy Firefox/Opera user I can tell you, the overall experience in Firefox is sluggish at best.

Re:Speed

[AaronLawrence]

Strange thing - I noticed the other day using a slow embedded web server - Seamonkey only redraws the page when you move the mouse over it. What's that about? Is it used to imply you're looking at the page, or just an artefact of their redraw approach? Is it changed in FF2?

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

are you using windows on a not-so-fresh processor? because i am and when i gave opera a try it failed hard on delivering the same user experience as firefox on massive browsing like opening 30 tabs at once. it simply hung or crashed. firefox never crashes when i give it that kind of abuse.

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been an Opera user for ~10 years, and the thing that has me addicted is the speed. (Call it the illusion if you'd like, but it FEELS faster.) My biggest pet peeve in using other browsers is the time spend waiting for the page reload when I click back a page. (99% of the time, the page has not changed while I've been reading the link I followed. If I think it has, I can hit F5.) Opera just brings the page back from cache - it's there immediately. That makes it feel much faster.

Re:Speed

[moronoxyd]

are you using windows on a not-so-fresh processor? because i am and when i gave opera a try it failed hard on delivering the same user experience as firefox on massive browsing like opening 30 tabs at once. it simply hung or crashed. firefox never crashes when i give it that kind of abuse.

Well, that's funny.
I just uninstalled Firefox from my PIII 500 MHz, 192 MB RAM laptop and installed Opera, because working with Firefox was unbearable.

Don't get me wrong: I like FF and I am using it on my faster (1 GHz+) PCs, but on everything that's slower or has only limited RAM, Opera is the way to go.

Firefox was and is a memory hog.

Oh, and Firefox crashed on me more often than Opera did, over the years.

Re:Speed

[ZERO1ZERO]

As has been mentioned this is tweakable.

I've searched but damned if I can find this link I can vageuly remember.
Pretty sure it was a mass-hoo-sive page of small images, and a bit of code to time how long the page took to draw.
What you'll find (and I find this daily) is that Opera will draw all the tables/image holders and text before the main chunks of content, so you have something to read while the rest is downloading.

Firefox, though, doesn't do shit until most of the page is downloaded. The difference is something like 5-10 seconds of waiting.
I'd appreciate a link to that page should anyone recognise it from that lame description.

Re:Speed

[Lisandro]

I can have over 50 tabs open sometimes - this is on a Linux system, an old AthlonXP 1800 with 512mb of RAM.

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when you open few more tabs in it, it'll instantly become ultra slow or hang mid-action while waiting for who-knows-what, while no other browser (safari, ie, opera) does this. Can you tell me how many tabs that is? FF doesn't slow down on the 5th, 10th, or 15th tab that I've seen. Do I have to go higher to see it? How much memory do you have (I have 2GB--not that memory should matter, since FF is a lot more conservative with memory for me than Opera is)? I'm also a heavy Opera user and it's noticeably slower--pages pop in FF and drag in Opera (particularly when they're complex pages or AJAX), and believe me, I've tried every trick Opera setting in the book.

Others quoting that "howtocreate" page is a joke, since those are meaningless artificial benchmarks. I test against the real world, where all sites are optimized for IE, almost all for FF, and almost none for Opera.

Re:Speed

[cecil_turtle]

Opera is today the most useable browser out there. Try to "use" Opera on any of Google's applications and let me know how that works out for you. It is fast, lightweight and has decent features "out of the box", but I can't use it day to day because for whatever reason there are a number of sites where Opera's javascript engine just doesn't work. (Cue the blame-game - "Opera supports the 'official' javascript DOM, sites that don't code for it are bad, etc.).

Re:Speed

[Lisandro]

Ah, yes. Sadly enough, it happens with all browsers, and in my eyes is a testament on how useful Javascript really is :) Still, GMail used to did the same and the Google guys ended up supporting Opera. I guess it's just a matter of time until they do the same for Google Docs.

Re:Speed

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally use Safari because it's faster than Firefox on my MacBook. (I still use Firefox for web dev thanks to Firebug and some invaluable others.) But Opera has my deep respect nonetheless, and I was pleasantly surprised when I saw it was adopted as the Wii's browser.

As for speed—I think Opera has been the fastest for a long, long time. I remember friends raving about how fast Opera was back in the late 90s, and any time I've heard Opera mentioned since then, "speed" has been one of the leading reasons why.

It's no surprise then, that I found this article on Efficient Javascript on Opera's dev site. It's interesting to see this type of article, and I really wish Mozilla's dev site would have more "best practices" instead of just references. Moz's references are great, but most articles that require writing aren't as well written as they might be. The Efficient Javascript article is a wonderful example to follow IMO; should be a benchmark for others.

Are they really making money off Opera?

[bogaboga]

I do not use Opera these days, but used it from 2000/2001. Those days, the Firefox browser, then called Phoenix or so really sucked! Question though...Are these Opera guys really making money off Opera? The Firefox folks are not doing badly with their product. How are Opera doing?

Re:Are they really making money off Opera?

[scorchypoo]

They're one of the market leader in mobile and embedded browsers. They're also selling copies of browsers on the Nintendo DS and Wii. The desktop is only a small part of their business.

Re:Are they really making money off Opera?

[bigbigbison]

They have multiple income streams. As noted in the interview, Opera, like Firefox, makes money from google and other search engines.

And, as the browser for the Wii and the DS, I'm sure that Nintendo is giving them a nice amount of money.

Re:Are they really making money off Opera?

[dragonquest]

Yes they are doing fairly well for themselves. On the desktop, Opera may lag far behind Firefox and IE, but on mobile systems its the leader. I use a Nokia E62, and out-of-the-box applications for browsing and communications are just about ok, not top class. So for the Symbian phones, especially the business class ones, installing a 3rd party browser becomes essential - which means the Opera Mini. And speaking from my personal experience, its pretty ok. Now when you launch the Opera Mini, you'd notice a couple of things, firstly that it seems to be tilted towards Yahoo services. Your default homepage has a direct Yahoo link, a Yahoo search option and a couple of other standard news sites links. I'll be damn surprised if Yahoo is not paying Opera some sort of revenue for this. The Wikipedia page on the company - Opera Software http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Software shows that their revenue in 2005 was around 154 million NOK. Which is decent considering, they made their browser a freeware after its initial launch as a paid product.

Re:Are they really making money off Opera?

[Jugalator]

They're also getting quite big among smartphones and even phone operators.

Opera Mobile is shipped on more than 50 million handsets from from the major mobile phone manufacturers and operators worldwide.

Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[wickerprints]

Just a few days ago, I had the existing AT&T DSL service switched over to my name. Although I didn't need new equipment, AT&T said they needed to disconnect the service for four days, after which it would take an additional four days after registration under my name to reconnect the same service. Because they didn't send me any hardware, I never received an installation CD. (Not that I ever intended to defile my system with their awful installer.) When I called up AT&T tech support, the woman was relatively clueless--I pretty much walked myself through the process. But there was one hitch: Using either Firefox or Safari (IE was discontinued for the Mac), I could not register a new DSL username in their system. The hardware and network setup were working perfectly; something about AT&T's (aka Yahoo!/SBC) online registration system, however, required that I use IE. And as a long-time Apple user, I would switch to cable modem before I'd install "malware" on my machine. It then came to me to try Opera. I downloaded a copy on my PowerBook through a nearby free access point (I love that place--best danishes I've ever had). And it worked. Obviously, AT&T is to blame, but am I ever relieved that Opera came through for me. Granted, I've gone back to using Firefox, but just in case, I've kept Opera on my system.

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[guabah]

They were probably using ssl2 for encryption. Or they had a user agent detector that blocked anything but IE.

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[Rebelgecko]

Try entering

defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

into the Terminal (when Safari isn't open) and changing your user agent (Debug->User Agent) to Internet Explorer. Most sites that "require" a certain browser will work in Safari.

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[4D6963]

IE was discontinued for the Mac

Word, but it's still available, and you can still run it on Mac OS X.

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[ambrosen]

But its only similarity to Windows IE is the name.

Unless you're talking about running IE under WINE, which should work fine.

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[4D6963]

But its only similarity to Windows IE is the name.

True, and it was a hell of a lot better than the Windows version, a lot. But I'd expect that what only runs on Windows IE to work on Mac IE..

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[Anonymous Coward]

And as a long-time Apple user, I would switch to cable modem before I'd install "malware" on my machine.

No need for the quotes. Heck I don't even install that IE malware on Windows. Thank the Lord for LitePC (and older versions of Windows, like 95/NT, where LitePC is not necessary.)

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[ezdude]

OTOH, Opera is somewhat limited because certain popular extension are only written for Firefox these days, for example, the del.icio.us Firefox plugin is really nice, and Google Docs & Spreadsheets does not support Opera. This is not Opera's fault, of course, but in the end that doesn't really matter. I recently switched to Opera, because I was sick and tired of the Firefox memory leak issues, and I have been mostly happy. Opera has some nifty features that Firefox doesn't (to my knowledge), such as the speed dial and quick searching from the url bar. However, there are several times, I've had to "Identify as Firefox" to get a website to work, and one can only take so much of this inconvenience. I must say, several years ago Firefox was in the same boat, and I made due, because I hated IE. So, I will try to stick with Opera, and hope it becomes more widely supported. I hope Firefox doesn't get too comfortable.

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[fm6]

But I'd expect that what only runs on Windows IE to work on Mac IE..

Mac IE is far more standards-compliant. If a web app depends on Windows IE's non-standard implementation of a tag....

I installed AT&T/Yahoo DSL for my sister about 4 years ago. (Of course it was SBC/Yahoo then.) My memory is dim, but I seem to recall that the setup application was a very fancy and very flaky html/javascript-based program. Did a lot of weird stuff and finally crashed — even though I was running IE! Had to do most of the configuration by hand.

Of course, such a program is going to be very dependent on a particular browser, because it will use obscure javascript and DOM stuff that varies from browser to browser. But the real problem is not browser dependency. The problem is an inept software developer who designed a unnecessarily elaborate program using precisely the wrong tools.

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[TheoMurpse]

Try entering

defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

into the Terminal (when Safari isn't open) and changing your user agent (Debug->User Agent) to Internet Explorer. Most sites that "require" a certain browser will work in Safari.

Boy, what they say about Apple, usability, and intuitiveness is so fucking true!
 
/is about to buy his first Apple laptop ever

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[4D6963]

Mac IE is far more standards-compliant. If a web app depends on Windows IE's non-standard implementation of a tag....

So in the end, what on Earth did Mac IE have in common with Windows IE besides the logo and name?

Re:Can't use IE, Firefox, or Safari

[fm6]

Given the industry's obsession with branding, the logo and the name is everything.

Browser/OS Equivalents

[Anonymous Coward]

Internet Explorer = Windows
Safari = Mac OS
Seamonkey = BSD
Firefox = Linux
Opera = BeOS
Lynx = DOS

I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchner

[intx13]

I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchner - he comes across as a very forthright, positive, motivated CEO - and he's pretty good natured to boot. Contrast that with recent interviews with Linus, who's opinion on certain matters everyone respects but comes across a bit too sassy to make an enjoyable read, or major company CEOs, who sound more like company brochures than people.

I used to use Firefox over Opera because I could install Firefox with one command under Linux. Now that Opera is available in the same way, I find that I still choose Firefox, mostly because it's what I'm used to. I feel like Opera is just a tad too late to the party to really take off in a big way - had they made their product as easy to get and as visible as Firefox way back when (what with a website that auto-detects the correct package and provides a big easy-to-click button, prepackaged binaries for Linux, advertising, etc.) the bite marks in IE could be twice as big as they are now. Of course this doesn't mean that Opera has no chance - the world is plenty big enough for three or four major browsers - and they're certainly making a dent in the off-PC market.

Good luck to them, and the next time Firefox fails to download quite as promptly as I like maybe I'll give Opera another go! In the meantime, just keep getting interviews like this one out there and visible and Opera will keep growing.

huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you saying that Opera runs on BeOS?

IE is derived from Mosaic.

Mozilla probably has Mosaic code as well.

Firefox corrected some of the kitchensinkisms of Mozilla.

Konqueror/KHTML was written from scratch and a bit lighter.

Safari is based on WebKit/WebCore which is based on KHTML/Konqueror.

Opera is derived from no public source. Someone correct me. Did Opera come from something else?

I will be happy to use Opera once the source is available.

Re:huh?

[MrNaz]

Firefox corrected some of the kitchensinkisms of Mozilla.

And then, as soon as Mozilla Suite was discontinued, it promptly replicated the whole kitchen sink mentality, somehow adding everything that's *not* useful in a stand alone browser (e.g., profles) and leaving things out that are (e.g., a reasonably useful download manager).

Re:huh?

[a.d.trick]

Profiles have been in Firefox since as long as I've known about it (around 0.9 or so), certainly before the Mozilla Suite was canned. They're about as visible as about:config; it's not something a regular user would ever notice. Also, it has no significant performance cost, and can be very important for people who are developing and testing Firefox. They don't what their testing version of Firefox to nuke their real profile. It's also nice for extension developers for pretty much the same reason.

Re:huh?

[MrNaz]

So, you're saying that putting in profiles into Firefox was as a debug tool? Seriously, dude, wtf.

Re:huh?

[Kelson]

Are you saying that Opera runs on BeOS?

The parent post is clearly comparing Opera to BeOS (not sure in what terms -- design, perhaps? technically impressive, but not wildly popular?), but as it happens, you can actually find an old version of Opera for BeOS.

Re:huh?

[a.d.trick]

That would be my guess. Obviously it can have other uses too, but since it was designed to be practically invisible to 99% of users, I think it's safe to say that that's its primary purpose. Firefox has several other features like this too: about:config, the DOM inspector, the error console, and probably more that I don't know about. These aren't things that have been added on to make it more like Mozilla, they've been around since day 1. In fact, the DOM inspector is now optional and disabled by default (it used to be built-in).

These tools actually have a point. The primary goal of Firefox is to be a simple and effective all-purpose web browser. They've (mostly) succeeded on that model by providing an extension system, so that the browser itself could be simple, but those with special needs. For web developers, extentions like Firebug are a huge benefit. The important bit here, is that it needs to be fairly easy to write and debug extensions, otherwise you'll end up with a huge, bloody mess on your hands from amateurs developing and distributing buggy extensions.

Also, remember that Firefox gets a large amount of it's Q&A from geeky users who want to try out betas. By making it safer and easier to test these out, they can get more valuable feedback, which in turn means a more bug-free browser.

Several advocates switching to Firefox...?

[Anonymous Coward]

I must have missed that part. They mention one guy (who I had no idea was an "Opera advocate") switching to Firefox because (he says) Firefox works better with Flickr. And that's it. They also mention how Firefox is highly dependant on Google, how it needs 15 plug-ins to do what Opera does by default (and still does it much slower), and so on. Funny how there's no mention of that in the article "summary".

Am I the only one to get the feeling that whoever submitted this story (besides not checking his links) is a tad biased...?

Re:Several advocates switching to Firefox...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. Even the quote from the summary makes it sound as if Opera's CEO is jalous of Firefox's success.

Re:Several advocates switching to Firefox...?

[Hatta]

And think, all he needed to do to capture the same excitement Firefox has is give us the source.

Re:Several advocates switching to Firefox...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Netscape gave its source because the source code was crap and Netscape was bankrupt. Opera is not a bankrupt neither the code is crap (judging by performance and size of Opera)

Re:Several advocates switching to Firefox...?

[Hatta]

Right, and look what the community did with the crap code base that was Netscape. Imagine what they'd have done with Opera!

Re:Several advocates switching to Firefox...?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is very little of Nescape's code left in Mozilla / Firefox. FF is essentially what the OS community managed to create. It's a good product, but unless you have the time and inclination to customize the code for your own use (which 99.999% of people don't), it doesn't really offer anything that Opera doesn't (on the contrary).

Considering most of Firefox's features were present in Opera months (sometimes years) before (pop-up blocking, tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, zoom, instant redraw when using back and forward, etc.), I for one am glad that Opera continues to be developed by a small number of focused people, rather than by ten thousand prima-donnas, 9900 of which are really just doing it to feed their egos.

I gave up on Firefox when I noticed that some bugs from the early version of Mozilla were still in there (more than five years just to display long tooltips properly!). Sure, you can smother it with plug-ins until it works, but Opera does the same "out of the box", faster and with less resources.

Opera doesn't enforce its patents, so if the OS community thinks it can do better, there's nothing to stop it. Personally, I don't think large open-source projects can ever go beyond a certain level of efficiency, unless there is _very_ strong leadership (something that Linux's developers were smart enough to understand).

Re:Several advocates switching to Firefox...?

[Hatta]

There is very little of Nescape's code left in Mozilla / Firefox. FF is essentially what the OS community managed to create.

That's kind of my point. If Opera had open sourced 5 years ago nobody would have had to waste time rewriting the code base. The browser would be significantly further along than it is now, and Opera not Firefox would be the darling of the open source world. Opera would have a much greater market share and a lot more revenue. Open sourcing Opera would have been a winning proposition for everyone involved.

meanwhile in a galaxy far, far away...

[martin-boundary]

Han: "But dammit, I shot first! First I tell you! It wasn't Greedo! What do I have to do so you all believe me?"

Opera Has Always Been Cutting Edge & Awsome

[Halvy]

Here is some more excruciating specs from their site
http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/

I could of swore I read somewhere it's origins were with the Gecko engine and Mozilla (NetScape) browser projects.. but I cannot quickly find that info right now :(

I know now they use a different engine however.

They even had a real-human return an email once with significant info on my questions to them about their *great* free mail service at: http://operamail.com/ actually :)

However I *always* keep several browsers handy just in case one does not render what I need done at that moment.

Re:Opera Has Always Been Cutting Edge & Awsome

[toriver]

Nah, Opera started ages ago as a research project in Norwegian telecoms company Telenor for an interface to CD-ROMs. No Gecko or Mozilla there.

Opera Supports BIG Pages better with less RAM

[Bellum Aeternus]

In my company we have a 'reports' web page that generates a list of items sold to whom, where, and when with in a given time frame (specified by the viewer). Needless to say the resulting page can be huge, literally ten of thousands of table rows long by dozens wide for even a short time span (a full year cannot be rendered on a typical workstation because of memory limitations, think 5+ million rows) - so far only Opera is capable of copying the data to the clip board for pasting into something like Access (god save me). IE and Firefox both choke (lock up and crash) on such a large select and copy when using a machine with less than 2GB of RAM.

I don't know what they do differently in Opera, but they do it right - and it's gotten them a number of new users in my company's administrative offices to boot.

Re:Opera Supports BIG Pages better with less RAM

[DarthChris]

This is going way offtopic, but I can't help but ask why you've got a system that generates a HTML document of that size. HTML isn't designed for that sort of thing, you should either be splitting it into multiple pages (can be done using some basic arithmetic) or, better still, using a dedicated reports system from a decent database (i.e. not Access). If you're going to print it out at all you'd need to do something like this anyway.

Re:Opera Supports BIG Pages better with less RAM

[Kelson]

I'll agree on this. I've found that, at least on Linux, the typical MySpace page (I check referrers, okay?) tends to be much more responsive in Opera than in Firefox. On the other hand, random pages on Digg and my del.icio.us bookmarks slow Opera to a crawl, but Firefox is fine. So even though both browsers will display a page, performance is wildly different, and neither browser manages to come out on top 100% of the time.

Re:Opera Supports BIG Pages better with less RAM

[Anonymous Coward]

Please submit further details of this wonderful copy-and-paste database transaction system to Worse Than Failure - it sounds like it could become one of the all-time classic WTFs.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

shift-g shift-i

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what I love about Opera?
Shift-G, Shift-I, instant boss mode!
(Posted anon because boss/wife read /.)

Re:shift-g shift-i

[GrievousMistake]

Or ctrl-h.

Profiles != bloat

[Anonymous Coward]

The Mozilla Suite used to include IRC, mail, etc. FireFox is nowhere near that bad, and all the rest are available separately.

And I'd disagree about profiles not being useful in a stand-alone browser: how are you supposed to allow more than one person to configure it to their liking without them? They're also not the sort of thing that's best handled as an extension, because they affect everything, including all the other extensions installed.

That said, I sorta wish they'd merge some of the wget code into the download manager (not to mention a basic torrent handler, probably one with few special options except one to let you use a more advanced torrent program instead). I hate how downloads can be "finished" when in reality the other side hung up on you and you're no longer able to resume the download from where you left off. Wget is far more tenacious, as I found out from being stuck with a really flaky wireless connection for a while. Though I wish there were options on even that to evade man in the middle attacks from an ISP's stupid "log in" page (hint to wget: if a redirect appears that wasn't there before in the middle of a failed download, do NOT fetch it!)

Re:Profiles != bloat

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'd disagree about profiles not being useful in a stand-alone browser: how are you supposed to allow more than one person to configure it to their liking without them?

They will of course be using different logins. Unless you are still using Windows 98, where everyone is administrator.

Re:Profiles != bloat

[TheRaven64]

The Mozilla Suite used to include IRC, mail, etc. FireFox is nowhere near that bad, IRC and mail were not bloat, except in the download size sense. When you didn't use these components, they were not loaded. When you did, then they shared a lot of resources with the browser, so you had a smaller overall footprint. Now, if you want to run FireFox and Thunderbird you still need two copies of Gecko, XUL, XPCOM, etc. in memory. They've been promising to fix this with XULRunner for ages, but still haven't.

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[dreddnott]

Late to the party?? I've been using Opera for ten years! I'd say it's more like the rest of the world that's late to the party.

On supporting Opera

[Jugalator]

I personally use and like Opera because it comes with the stuff I always use to have to install otherwise with Firefox built-in. Things like interactive ad blocking, the download manager, locking tabs, and so on. It's a lot of nice features without bloating the browser, and still feels lighter than Firefox to me, with the base Opera files without the profile being around 5 MB here *after* install, excluding a user profile and localization files that come with some versions.

Re:On supporting Opera

[Anonymous Coward]

And my firefox install with all the plugins I use is a whopping 15 megs! OH EMM GEEEEEEEEEEE! That's so bloated that I might just run out of space on my 500 GB hard drive due to it's humongous bloat!

You're right! Incompetent Firefox developers are a feature!

I swear, Firefox could rape people's mothers, and you fucking tards would be screaming how it's actually good somehow.

I'd have had a question for him...

[Lord Kano]

Can we get a newer port of Opera to the Zaurus?

LK

Re:I'd have had a question for him...

[LuSiDe]

Makes no sense. The Zaurus is a niche, and the product line is EOL. Dead. Sharp quit developing Zaurus. I sold my Zaurus this summer because of that.

Re:I'd have had a question for him...

[TheRaven64]

Hugely off-topic, and posted without karma bonus because of that, but what (if anything) did you replace it with? I'm looking for a palmtop machine with a *NIX OS (ideally OpenBSD, but I'd settle for Linux) for work on Étoilé. I currently have a Nokia 770, but it's under-powered (especially in the RAM department), and not very easy to hack on unless you buy into the whole Maemo thing. It also has no keyboard, although I have a bluetooth one that works well when I have enough space for it.

Re:I'd have had a question for him...

[darthflo]

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973
have fun :)

Re:I'd have had a question for him...

[LuSiDe]

Well, for now I've decided I want to be less depending on all kind of gadgets but later I might buy a model if it suits my needs (it has to be hackable to my taste). Hence, I've opted for an agenda with pen and paper together with efforts to improve my writing skills. One factor which forces me to write in bad quality is stress. So far, I've established wonders. I also have a laptop, but normally not used for this purpose. I don't have or need a cellphone. YMMV. IMO it all starts with organising skills. If you don't have them, no matter how good your PDA will be, it won't work well. Perhaps I simply did not need a PDA at all.

The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[Frogbert]

The only problem I have with using Opera is that there is just no substitute for Adblock plus, something that allows me to subscribe to a list of blocked urls and html and have it do its thing in the background. If someone has found one please let me know.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[Anonymous Coward]

Try http://operawiki.info/OperaAdblock

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[tech10171968]

Okay, done: (1) OperaAdFilter (http://www.monroeworld.com/operafilter/documentat ion.php) does a pretty good job of providing a way to modify the built-in ad filter (yeah, Opera actually had one all along contrary to popular belief), otherwise known as UserCss. (2) And if that isn't enough for you then you can also use Opera's (also) built-in content blocker (http://www.opera.com/products/desktop/). It's pretty neat: once you choose it from the menu it "whites out" everything on the page except for the ad banners and graphics; fro there you simply click on which object you want blocked and then click "save" near the top of the browser window. Quick, easy, intuitive, and it does it on a per-webpage basis. I don't blame folks for stating how Opera lacks this, that or the other thing; the browser's so chock-full of built-in features which a lot of people don't think the browser even has, and the fact that they even exist isn't made very obvious. Of course, the other side of that coin is that if Opera decided to turn on all those features simultaneously then the browser would be accused of having a cluttered interface. The result is that quite a few settings are turned off by default and must be enabled by using the "Preferences" menu.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[VGPowerlord]

The only problem I have with using Opera is that there is just no substitute for Adblock plus, something that allows me to subscribe to a list of blocked urls and html and have it do its thing in the background. If someone has found one please let me know.

I don't see where the bolded part is addressed.

Adblock Plus allows you to update your adblock filter set by subscribing to one of several lists updated and maintained by different people. To my knowledge, there is not yet an Opera equivalent.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[Misanthrope]

http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/
More specifically
http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/opera/urlfilter.in i
Set up a cron script and you're set.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[Misanthrope]

Cron+wget

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[FsG]

Actually, Proxomitron is a perfect substitute for Adblock plus. It's essentially a personal web proxy that uses regular expression rules to rewrite web pages before you see them. It comes with a set of filters that'll drop most ads. If you want a better list of rules for it, you should get Sidki's filter set. Using this along with proxomitron gives me more ad protection than Adblock plus offers, along with *much* more flexibility on exactly what to filter and rewrite in web pages.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[Rob Simpson]

Meh, I don't see the appeal of subscribing to someone's list... Privoxy has a near-perfect built-in filter, cleans out a lot more crap, and it's easy enough to add blocks for the few things that slip through.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[xet7]

Yes there is, Ad Muncher http://www.admuncher.com/ . It works in all windows browsers.
It's better than AdBlock, and cheap. Just yesterday bought 2 copies.
It's currently for 32bit windows, but version for Linux and 64bit windows is in progress.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[wehee]

why is it better than adblock?i don't think so

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[xet7]

Ad Muncher is fast, here's how it compares:
- adblock in Firefox takes more memory than without adblock and using Ad Muncher, which is programmed with c+assembler (they're converting assembler portions to c for easying porting to Linux etc)
- Proxomitron or other proxy ad blockers are dog slow
- urlfilter with opera ( http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&cid=202 90857 ) is quite good, and a good find (I didn't know about it before that slashdot post, I'll test it in Linux for sure!) but opera's filter is slightly slower than Ad Muncher's. With Ad Muncher and Opera pages fly to screen.
- Ad Muncher cathes some more ads than adblock or urlfilter

Ad Muncher works with every windows program, such as Safari, IE, tcl based browsers, anything.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[Anonymous Coward]

So, let's say I have enough RAM and my processor is good enough that I don't care of Ad Muncher takes up slightly fewer resources than AdBlock Plus does. I also don't care that it works with every program, because the only one I'd be using it with is my primary browser. Is there any other reason why it's better? (if it's catching more ads, that's because you've done a poor job of configuration AdBlock Plus, or you're not using the right filter list -- I don't see any ads, ever)

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[Lucretia of Borg]

Mike's ad-blocking hosts file does it for me: http://everythingisnt.com/hosts.html

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[xet7]

Sure it's great for your computer, but I only have WinXP Home AMD Sempron laptop with 1 GB RAM and integrated graphics card, that takes part of that 1 GB RAM.

When I was using Firefox, adding all extensions I used (AdBlock Plus, Filterset.G, Tab Mix Plus, FoxMarks, Html Validator, CustomizeGoogle, Netcraft Toolbar) and browsing with lots of tabs open ment that often Firefox toke processor usage to 100% and much of RAM, and I had to kill it and restart. When FoxMarks updated bookmarks to/from server, that slowed down firefox too. Firefox/Tab Mix Plus recovering from crashes didn't allways work.

Opera has nice widget "Stay Secure"
http://widgets.opera.com/widget/4495
Currently it shows that according to Secunia browsers have security holes:
- IE has 10
- Firefox has 6
- Opera has 0
- Safari has 3
- Konqueror has 2
so I've changed my 2 pc:s browser to Opera.

Opera uses less memory when showing big web pages, showing same big pages in Firefox or IE freezed computer, I read that from somewere, maybe subpage/forum of opera.com. Using Opera feels faster for me than Firefox.

I also need to test web pages and sites in different browsers because I'm a web developer, and having browsers ad-free is great for me. For some other users it can be less important.

Many programs include IE for viewing internal html documents, or some program can launch IE at random site, so I like the added security of ad-free IE and any other program. Ad Muncher blocks many spyware, adware and dialer installers too.

For computers that I install for friends and customers, I don't get Ad Muncher for them, usually I just install Firefox with AdBlock Plus and Filterset.G, or Opera with free filters. But for my own use it's good and worth the small price.

Re:The only thing stopping me from using Opera

[A Non Mouse Cowhand]

What's interesting here is that a lot of the comments are focussed on Opera as the desktop browser - this is somewhat missing the point of Opera's business model.

Fact 1) you didn't completely stop using Opera if you have a Wii or PS3, a number of mobile phones http://www.opera.com/b2b/ or god help you, an internet fridge, or have used pretty much any of those commercial internet kiosks you find in airports/hotels. Here's where their real focus lies.
Fact 2) if you use multiple desktop OS's and like the idea of having a standard browser experience across all of them, perhaps you should look at Opera's desktop browser again.
Not-Quite-a-Fact 3) if you use a Windows mobile device and like me, you think that Pocket IE is a highly unpolished turd, you'd probably do well to load Opera's mobile browser and check out the differences.

Opera took some wrong decision

[joemod]

I believe that opera is not very popular now because of decisions they made in the past, some of which have not changed up to now. To be more specific when the need of a new browser rose since Internet Exploder stalled, there were two options available for the WinPC platform: Opera and Firefox. Back then Opera had features that Firefox never dreamed of and an amazing eyecandy interface. But it had the biggest minus one such thing could have. You had to pay for it or else you would surf having an annoying advertisement bar hovering all over the place.
The second wrong decision which in the beginning was not so important but as firefox started to improve seemed more and more visible was the combination of open source/extensibility. At the moment there are addons in firefox not so important for my browsing experience but useful nonetheless such as weatherfox. Not to talk about extensions which really improve one's browsing experience such as noscript.

At the end of the day one can conclude that Opera while pioneer in browsing platform lost the momentum to firefox when world's biggest internet market - WinPC - demanded something new. I hope for the sake of users that Opera will not do the same mistake, since we need Opera to be around with all the great features they keep inventing.
(My self i use Firefox over Opera for almost one reason. The ability to select piece of text, right click on it, select search with google and firefox opens a new tab for the search instead of the same)

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[VGPowerlord]

Not to talk about extensions which really improve one's browsing experience such as noscript.

Opera doesn't have an icon on its interface for something like noscript, but Opera has support for disabling/enabling plugins, Java. and Javascript on a per-site basis nonetheless. It's in Tools, Quick preferences (F12), Edit site preferences...

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[joemod]

So does Firefox. But as far as i know Opera does not offer advanced management as Noscript. Also Noscript was an example. Another example is Adblock.

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[hkmwbz]

My self i use Firefox over Opera for almost one reason. The ability to select piece of text, right click on it, select search with google and firefox opens a new tab for the search instead of the same

Um, hold down Shift?

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[flape]

Per site, but not per domain. This is just the one think that holds me back. Anyone any suggestions? Is there an real alternative for noscript on opera? Thanks.

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[Mushdot]

You can also open a new tab in Opera by pressing shift while you right click on the highlighted text.

I agree Opera made some bad decisions early on with their marketing of the product. But, I wouldn't call the advert bar annoying - In fact I never used to notice it.

It seems the only people who complain about paying for something are slashdotters. That and wanting the source code so they can feel comfortable they aren't being spyed on.

I bought an Opera license and it cost me (drum roll please ... ) £7.50, or thereabouts. Thats the cost of 3 pints at the pub. It's not exactly a bank breaker is it? And for the internet experience I get it's worth every penny.

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[Anonymous Coward]

Now guess what you can do with Opera?

I can select some text and right click on 'Search'. Then it will open a new tab and use that to search for that text (using your default search engine).
I can also select some text and right click and go in the 'Search With'-menu and select any of the configured search engines...

In addition to that I can also right click and choose 'Dictionary' or 'Encycopledia'. (Both seem to go to answers.com at the moment)

(I'm current using v8.51. Don't know when it was implemented)

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[joemod]

I did not know about that and i couldn't find about that.

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[joemod]

Thanks about the shift info. I did not know about it as i said in my previous comment. Now about the paying-slashdotters idea i disagree. When there is a free alternative and a non free what do you think someone will try to use? And i agree that it was worth the price although i did not pay for it being a student with very low income.

Re:Opera took some wrong decision

[TheRaven64]

You can also open a new tab in Opera by pressing shift while you right click on the highlighted text. Opera's mouse gestures have been copied in other browsers, but there's one I've never seen anyone else get right. Dragging down in Opera opens a new tab, but if you start on a link then it opens the link in a new tab. This is an incredibly fast of opening a link in a new tab, but tends not to work on other gesture implementations which don't associate the gesture with a start or end position.

On the subject of opening things in a new tab: With Safari, holding down command while clicking on a link made it open in a new tab. I noticed yesterday that with Safari 3 they've tweaked it so that holding down control while doing anything that results in a new page being fetched puts the result in a new tab. This includes hitting enter in the address / search bar, clicking on the back / forward buttons, and clicking on form buttons. It's a feature I've been wanting since the first browser I used with tabs (Opera 6?), and I'm glad someone has finally implemented it.

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[VGPowerlord]

I do believe he means one that's free and has no advertising. Which has been since Opera 8.5 came out in late 2005.

Re:Translation: Theenking ooootseede-a zee Oopera

[Anonymous Coward]

And that gets modded as funny? Have I transported back into the 70's, where because someone spoke with an accent we should point and laugh at them? What next for slashdot - stories about Baidu.com getting comments about their CEO having slitty eyes and being referred to as ting tong?

Re:Translation: Theenking ooootseede-a zee Oopera

[Fred_A]

And that gets modded as funny? Have I transported back into the 70's, where because someone spoke with an accent we should point and laugh at them? What next for slashdot - stories about Baidu.com getting comments about their CEO having slitty eyes and being referred to as ting tong? He got off lightly, had it been the Mandriva CEO it would have been about his surrendering and his bad smell. :-/

Re:Link to 1st page on Interview

[Anonymous Coward]

Impressive that you managed to FAIL IT

Re:Translation: Theenking ooootseede-a zee Oopera

[reanjr]

You are probably not aware that after MS changed one of their sites to specifically break Opera, Opera released a "version" that turned that site into Swedish Chef talk. The GP was making reference to that. Probably could have made his point with only a few paragraphs, but it is humorous to those with the requisite background knowledge to understand the joke.

Re:MDI

[datapharmer]

I think AOL may have beat Opera to the punch on that by at least a year. I don't recall ever having used opera back then, so it makes it difficult to compare them from an MDI standpoint, but I do remember using the original Mosaic browser. It was pretty exciting at the time - came with a book and everything.

On another note, who the heck likes MDIs anyhow? Personally I find the design annoying as it tends to waste a great deal of screen real estate (especially back then when 800x600 on a 14" monitor was considered a luxury by many. Of course this is coming from someone who sets program windows to a borderless and opaque style whenever possible to increase what information is visible at a given time. I don't mind floating windows, but the idea of a true MDI ala windows 3.1, AOL, etc drive me nuts.

Your siggie

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill Gates doesn't care about Mac people. Let me fix that for ya:
Bill Gates doesn't care about people.

Re:Your siggie

[Anonymous Coward]

> Bill Gates doesn't care about people.

How many foundations have you started, fuckwit?

Re:Translation: Theenking ooootseede-a zee Oopera

[chuckymonkey]

Holy huge wall of unintelligible text. You must be a Perl coder.

FFS

[empaler]

From the top of the linked page (to which you don't offer any text, only a straight URL):

A polite request
Please stop posting this article on sites like Slashdot, Digg, newspapers, etc. It is old news. This article is around 2 years old now (although it has been kept up to date), and has been retired - posting it simply shows how long it took you to find it. It has already been posted on Slashdot enough times, Digg more than enough times, similar sites more times than I can count, as well as newspaper sites all around the world, and far more blogs than I will ever be able to read.

I thank you for your attention, and I am very happy that you found this article interesting or useful enough to read. However, it really does not need you to post it yet again - all you will do is eat my bandwidth, and I ask you not to do that.

Re:FFS

[sootman]

Welcome to Slashdot, where even FA submitters don't RTFA. :-)

Re:FFS

[Anonymous Coward]

"Posting this article on Slashdot" means posting it as a story, which is what causes Slashdottings. Merely posting a link to it in a comment does not cause slashdottings, so I don't know what the fuck you're objecting to here.

Re:FFS

[lief79]

Can't help but wonder what you were doing before 1981. :-)

Re:FFS

[empaler]

Working on the final solution to the... Er, I mean, I can't remember either. Partly because most of 1981 was spent partying with a placenta; great party that was. The anniversary for the end of that party is this Thursday :-D

Opera rocks.

[Mark Gillespie]

It's truely the only cross platform browser there is.

I can have Opera on Windows, Opera on my Mobile, Opera on my Wii, Opera on my PS3.

As soon as they sort out having bookmarks shared between all of these, seamlessly, then it's a no brainer.

Re:Opera rocks.

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot Macintosh! Earlier this year, after a near-lifetime of Windows use, I was forced to debug my Java application on MacOS X, and it took me quite a while to acclimatise to Cmd-C and Ctrl-arrow and Opt-tab and *Cmd*-tab and all the other little Macinthings. Opera was a beacon in the darkness, as I could run it mostly by mouse, Cmd-L, and slash-search, and using it gave me some sense of control in a world going awry.

Re:Opera rocks.

[wehee]

The only cross platform browser?? are you sure? You can run Firefox on GNU/Linux, on *BSD, Windows, OSX, on your Mobile, PocketPC, PS3, PS2.... So, no, Opera isnot the only cross platform browser.

Opera the greatest

[Big Nothing]

Seriously, why people chose Firefox is beyond me. The first thing I do once I install a new Linux (or Windows, for that matter) box is install Opera. It takes a lot less time and effort than patching Firefox with plug-ins to mimic Opera behaviour. As a bonus I get a more secure browser...

Re:Opera the greatest

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, why people chose Firefox is beyond me. The first thing I do once I install a new Linux (or Windows, for that matter) box is install Opera. Wait, you mean other people have likes and dislikes and that differ from yours? That's totally unheard of!

It takes a lot less time and effort than patching Firefox with plug-ins to mimic Opera behaviour. Yeah it takes all of 60 seconds to install all the extensions I use... Oh man, I just understand all that extra effort to click my mouse ~25 times. Gosh I just get so pooped from all that extended effort.

As a bonus I get a more secure browser... All the extensions you get from the official mozilla site are checked for security. So that's just FUD.

Re:Opera the greatest

[junglee_iitk]

There are two reasons I use firefox:

1. Firefox is much more customizable. Opera hangs on me. I am using opensuse 10.2 with both opera and firefox pre-installed. And Opera hangs on me for almost everypage with very heavy javascripts (read AJAX). Pretty common these days, huh.

2. Barely plausible, but I don't have ALSA installed. Instead, I listen from OSS, which Opera does not support while Firefox does (out of the box)

That's pretty much it.

Re:Opera the greatest

[TeknoHog]

Opera is closed source software. "Seriously, why people choose Linux or BSD is beyond me." That's enough of a reason for many people.

Speaking of Firefox extensions, I don't use any of them, so there goes another point about installation time and effort.

Re:Opera the greatest

[improfane]

Seriously, why people choose Linux or BSD is beyond me.
He didn't say that. You people try to find ways to put words in peoples mouths they did not say. That is not the correct way to argue. If you cannot take his criticism of your browser, don't reply. Reply on equal grounds. Explain why Opera is not superior to Firefox.

there goes another point about installation time and effort.
Nor does that refute his point. You cannot knock down points as you please by changing them because you think it makes the argument easier, that's a straw man argument.

His point still stands, it's faster for HIM.

His point is that Opera is the superior product in itself. This point still stands. He isn't referring to the political aspect of being closed source.

Re:Opera the greatest

[TheRaven64]

Reply on equal grounds. Explain why Opera is not superior to Firefox

He did, he said Opera is non-Free. There are two sorts of F/OSS users. Open Source advocates believe that an open development model will produce superior code. Free Software advocates believe that having the freedom to modify and redistribute your code is inherently valuable, and many believe that this makes up for any lack of features since it means that they can add (or pay someone else to add) any missing feature they care enough about. If you are one of these people, then it doesn't matter how many features Opera has, the fact it is non-Free is a problem.

While I'm not a completely rabid Free Software advocate, I've been burned enough by proprietary software to want to avoid depending on any more of it than I have to. I don't mind using a proprietary browser (based on a Free Software rendering engine), because it's easy to switch browsers if the limitations become concrete, but it's a line other people are less willing to cross.

Re:Opera the greatest

[DMUTPeregrine]

Firefox has adblock and subscription lists. Firefox has FoxyProxy, which allows proxy switching by URL pattern. Using TOR has never been easier. Firefox has leetkey, which makes decoding all those ROT13 and 1337speak posts easy. Firefox has SimpleDelicious, which integrates Del.Icio.Us bookmarks nicely. Firefox has InfoRSS, an rss reader far superior to anything in Opera. Firefox has NoScript. Firefox has better tools for web developers (ViewSource Chart, ColourZilla, etc, etc.) Opera uses less memory. Opera has a messier UI (You have to keep the toolbar, you can't put everything on the same line as the File/Edit... toolbar. In Firefox I have 1 bar for all tools and the tab bar. Firefox has extensions. Opera has widgets. Extensions are far, far more useful. When Opera can use extension-like functionality, maybe I'll use it for something more than keeping a few static pages open for days at a time (lower memory usage.)

Re:MDI

[hkmwbz]

who the heck likes MDIs anyhow?

Apparently a lot of people since even IE has MDI these days. Yes, "tabbed browsing" is just MDI. MDI is "Multiple Document Interface", and there are lots of ways to present those. Tabs in browsers being one.

Opera Mini vs. Opera Mobile

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny because Opera Mini or whatever the J2ME version is called is waaaaaay better than the native Opera Mobile for smartphones. It also uses some kind of proxy to reformat the pages to be viewed in the browser--which must be kind of expensive to handle all that overhead on a browser they get no money from (aside from occasional portal deals or whatever). I figured Opera Mobile would be way better--and was prepared to pay $30 for it--but I instaalled it, used it for a few mins, and then went back to Mini. It's simply the best mobile browser out there today.

Re:Opera Mini vs. Opera Mobile

[nonos]

Yes, too bad they ported Opera mobile to the Nintendo DS and not the mini version...

Re:MDI

[jlarocco]

I like MDIs. More precisely, if I can have more than one "thing" open in one instance of a program, I like being able to look at more than one of them at a time. Sometimes it's just nice to be able to look at two things side by side.

I'd say it's probably one of the top 10 reasons I use Opera over Konqueror or Firefox. And one of the top five reasons I despise Eclipse.

Personal preference, I guess.

Respectfully disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't like Opera, or more specifically while the underlying layout engine (presto) is perfectly okay; I don't like the feel of QT or anything about their GUI design. The mail client is also teh fail if the user has multiple IMAP accounts across multiple host and servers.

Back to the GUI design, sleek it ain't, Opera and IE7 are the cluttered ugly cousins of web browsing. I find Safari, Firefox, konqueror and even simple browsers like GTK netsurf and dillo to be more usable.

> As a bonus I get a more secure browser...

No, you get a browser with fewer reported security vulns that isn't as widely targeted by malware as IE, Fx or even Safari.

Re:Respectfully disagree

[Poromenos1]

Your calling Opera cluttered makes me doubt you've ever used it. Mine has a menubar, tab bar and address bar, none of which has any buttons on it. You don't even need the menu, with the sidebar and gestures. So, try using something before trolling.

Re:Respectfully disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the equivalent of of putting your fingers in your ears. It looks cluttered starting with the new tab button on the left. Tabs above the navigation bar are ick but the tabs themselves manage to look cluttered no matter what theme I try. The default of blue shade and double border on the tabs is overkill.

Konqueror, Firefox and Safari are all much cleaner and less cluttered by default. Take your fingers out of your ears and try opening open your eyes.

Re:Respectfully disagree

[ccp]

It looks cluttered starting with the new tab button on the left.

Which one?
The one I eliminated permanently with just two clicks?

Talk about clueless...

Re:Respectfully disagree

[Poromenos1]

Ah, but "by default" Konqueror, Firefox and Safari don't have mail clients, mouse gestures, ad blockers, etc etc. Those take ages to install compared to "right click->remove".

Re:100% volunteers?

[bunratty]

Unlike Firefox, they actually have to pay their developers.

Mozilla pays its developers just like Opera does. There's a myth that all open source development is done by volunteers. A lot of it is, but the main contributors, at least to Mozilla code, are paid full-time developers.

Tabbed Browsing

[Dog-Cow]

It really annoys me when people claim that Opera or Mozilla introduced tabbed browsing. I know /. will love to hear it, but AOL was the first that I've seen. Their GNN browser in the early 90's had tabbed browsing. It was even able to load multiple tabs at once on Windows 3.1, an OS w/o threads. I remember having a dozen or more tabs open at once, several of them loading simultaneously, on a machine with 4MB of ram.

Re:MDI

[TheRaven64]

I like MDIs. More precisely, if I can have more than one "thing" open in one instance of a program, I like being able to look at more than one of them at a time The problem with doing this with Wondows-style MDI is that you have a huge opaque window that contains both of them. This is fine if you are only using one application, but is very wasteful of screen real-estate, or places irritating restrictions on window position, if you are using more than one.

Windows MDI began as a copy of the Mac user interface, which doesn't have this problem since every 'MDI' application is maximised with a transparent root main window (i.e. document windows are free-floating, as are palettes, and he menu bar is at the top). It was always a hack on Windows.

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[TheRaven64]

I started using Opera back around 2001. At the time, navigating to their site from Linux would give you a page with RPMs, and you could just select the one you wanted (or the binary tarball, with statically linked Qt). On FreeBSD, all you've needed to do is install the 'opera' port (portinstall opera, or cd /usr/ports/www/opera && make install clean).

Re:But will it go Open Source?

[zxSpectrum]

vrms seems a bit outdated. Example output:

huh, user@machine:~$ vrms [...] xaralx Heavyweight vector graphics, illustration and DTP Prog

Xara Xtreme is GPL

On Opera speed, memory residency, + security

[Anonymous Coward]

SOME "FYI" ON SPEED, MEMORY OCCUPANCY, & SECURITY (for Opera, vs. the other 2 major players in IE, & FIREFOX):

"He seems to think that Opera is fast." - by ChrisMaple (607946) on Sunday August 19, @11:16PM (#20289859) So do others, as evidenced here (the most comprehensive & even-handed/fair comparison of browser speed online that I have found, to date):

BROWSER SPEED COMPARISONS ON MANY TASKS & MULTIPLE OPERATING SYSTEM PLATFORMS:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

(Especially on the MOST USED OS PLATFORM ON THE PC, Windows, but also, overall!)

----

"My experience has been that although Opera renders more accurately than Firefox (1.5.0.2)" - by ChrisMaple (607946) on Sunday August 19, @11:16PM (#20289859) It passed the "ACID2" test, & iirc, before ANY other did... but, don't quote me on THAT account (before any other browser):

http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/03/12/1416222.shtml

AND, just 2 days ago, I loaded Opera 9.23.8808, FireFox 2.0.0.6, & IE7 fully hotfix patched as of last "Microsoft Patch Tuesday", & the memory usage was in this order:

- Per Taskmanager processes tab, prior to minimizing the window (which causes unused application features to page back to the backing .exe file on disk, summoned only when needed, & Opera won that one, too)

IE7 (least, with GOOGLE toolbar) memory usage = 19,048k

Opera (next least - & no widgets installed) = 18,272k

FireFox (most - & no addons installed) = 31,172k

Read 'em & weep, or test yourself - your numbers SHOULD be the same, unless you opened a lot of tabs in them, OR extended your say, FireFox with .xpi addons, &/or IE with addons & toolbars from 3rd parties that is... which probably will make YOUR readings worse/higher imo on a guess.

----

"Opera is a lot slower." - by ChrisMaple (607946) on Sunday August 19, @11:16PM (#20289859) Says you... others say differently, per the url & test above, as well as the security data below (as far as that is concerned, & today online? IT IS A DEFINITE CONCERN!) plus, if you are a FireFox fan? Perhaps you ought to look @ this page:

FIREFOX MYTHS:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/FirefoxMyt hs.html

AND, yes folks:

Opera had tabbed browsing before IE, or FireFox/Mozilla AND YES, it can be extended with addons, if you look up "Opera Widgets"...

PLUS, Opera 9.23.8080 final biuld IS FREE + FULLY FEATURE LADEN, more than any other browser imo, without addons thrown in (as is, outta the box/stock oem model)

APK

P.S.=> Opera also shows LESS security vulnerabilities than the other 2 of the "big 3" & their most current builds/models/versions:

Opera security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

FireFox security advisories @ SECUNIA (43% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

IE 7 security advisories @ SECUNIA (56% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

apk

Re:On Opera speed, memory residency, + security

[Anonymous Coward]

EDIT - Reverse IE & Opera in the memory occupancy figures I posted above (sorry, this is to "stop the nitpickers" on that account):

A.) INITIAL LOADING & INSTANCING MEMORY FIGURES (tested today here):

IE7 (least, with GOOGLE toolbar) memory usage = 18,272k

Opera (next least - & no widgets installed) = 19,048k

FireFox (most - & no addons installed) = 31,172k

----

B.) MINIMIZED & RESTORED WINDOWS AGAIN (this changes memory occupancy due to paging operations on Windows NT-based OS, since the app is no longer in the foreground):

IE7 (least, with GOOGLE toolbar) memory usage = 4,572k

Opera (next least - & no widgets installed) = 7,580k

FireFox (most - & no addons installed) = 31,144k

APK

P.S.=> Sorry about that folks - need my coffee this a.m.! Well, "read 'em & weep" firefox & ie fiends... apk

Re:On Opera speed, memory residency, + security

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the "mods up" people...

Yes, Opera is the "superior-warrior", as far as browsers go... no doubt about it.

More secure

Less overall memory occupance than IE, & FIREFOX, overall.

(Even though Opera comes FULLY LOADED with mail, chat, blogs, RSS, ftp, browser, addons, + more for FREE, & is massively configurable & yet eats less RAM than others do!)

Other browsers, I have found @ least, need addons bloating them more in RAM to have as much of a featureset as Opera has right off the bat!

And, OPERA's multiplatform + clean C (straight C, @ least initially this to me was one of its key selling points back when it came out in the 90's) code thru & thru!

PLUS (Of course), lastly??

OPERA IS THE MOST SECURE OF THE LOT!

ABOVE ALL:

Opera MAY be less used, but... I LIKE IT LIKE THAT!

Folks don't know what they're missing, too bad, BUT!

Neither do the hackers/crackers, because of PC has less use of Opera.

Crackers/Hackers tend to attack MS stuff, but only make it stronger (cool by me) when their methods are figured out (best R&D MS has)!

Crackers/Hackers tend to attack the MOST USED OS & SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT PLATFORM FOR THE PC THERE IS: Windows NT-based OS & Win32 API code.

Opera's an "exception to that rule" & I think I proved that from SECUNIA data.

(Yes, security is not defined by obscurity, but it does seem to help on that account sometimes, but not always & every bit helps, I'll gladly take it, especially on today's script vulnerable internet...)

So, BOTTOM-LINE ON MY REPLY On my post?

Well: As Steve Jobs said in "Pirates of Silicon Valley" to Capt. Crunch, while Steve Wozniak listens, lol, & says INFORMATION? Is power!

(... but it's all in good fun: GOOD, ACCURATE, & BACKED INFORMATION? Is power... So, I have to modify his original statement's build, to this - ACCURATE SOLID INFORMATION IS POWER! (SQLServer 2005 power... finally, this DB engine's really getting good too, zero security vulnerabilities in its 3++ yr. history now in fact, so a good choice on my part there))

(... & I hope you enjoy the information! It's the only kind I'm into, as described above: how about you?)

APK

P.S.=> And, what are the Apple folks up to, in that scene from the film I note above? Can anyone tell me?? ROTFLMAO, will wonders never cease! apk

Firefox user, in process of Opera switch

[Tronster]

I currently run Firefox on my home PC, home Mac, home Mac-mini, and wife's computer.

Just last week I switched to Opera at work, after learning one of my, well respected, co-workers was using it for browsing. Ever year or so I'd done a "switch" for a day, but always went back to Firefox. I think this time the switch to Opera is going to stay.

Seems Opera is on par to all the features I've come to rely on in Firefox (tabs, mouse gestures, adblocking, tabbed download info), except that they are all baked into the browser instead of needing to be added in. The tight integration, shows in many subtle ways (e.g., where options are presented in the menus, etc...) that makes the overall product feel more polished. The smaller memory foot-print, faster (perceived?) UI response, and better standards compliance all make me feel more comfortable than the browser I've been advocating to friends the last 7+ years.

The lack of Open Source use to bug me, but not any more; I don't see myself ever becoming involved in the source code. I truely believe the money behind Opera is what has contributed to it being such a great product.

- Built in tabs (I don't care who was first, I care if there are tabs in the current version.)
- Built in tabbed download status
- Built in mouse gestures
- Built in ad-blocking
- Built in FULL full screen
- Built in "Speed Dial" feature (neat idea!)
- Better CSS2 compliance than Firefox or IE
- A solid bookmark manager
- Smaller (than Firefox) memory footprint

Another week of test driving this at work, and then my home computers are switching over too.

Security

[Britz]

The lower the marketshare, the lower the chance that your browser ist targeted by malware authors. Since Firefox is gaining at such a great speed I have started to advise Windows users to use Opera for security reasons. Other than for security neither Firefox, IE7, nor Opera make a difference for the casual PC user.

Personally I use Iceweasel, because it comes directly from my good ol' trusted repository, but I also have Opera installed and use it as a secondary browser for sites that don't work in Firefox. I also prefer the cookie management in Firefox to that in Opera. Opera used to be way ahead, but they stopped making progress on that front a long time ago. Though I realize that privacy is more of a myth now with special Flash and Java supercookies and the likes that never show up anywhere.

Mod parent down!

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a copy paste troll

don't click on that link

[OrangeTide]

Someone used my computer and didn't bother logging my out before posting their (mildly clever) troll/nsfw post. (it's a picture of an erection he found on wikipedia)

Re:don't click on that link

[Anonymous Coward]

umm, ok. Sure. Try hitting the 'post anonymously' button next time.

Re:don't click on that link

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah, nice one. :)

Re:don't click on that link

[OrangeTide]

that would have been nice of him. I don't want that weird crap attached to my account. but at least this way I can see people's replies to it.

Re:MDI

[toriver]

In particular, tabs = MDI with the internal "Window" menu expanded inside the frame.

I remember all the flak Opera users got for the MDI from Netscape and IE user back then (around ver. 2.12 which was the first I bought)... funny how things change. The main reason the Mosaic family (Netscape pre-6, IE pre-4) didn't use MDI was just that it was an X11 codebase and X11 did not use the MDI paradigm.

Plus, later Operas let you use one window per document instead, if you so desire. Or mix tabs and separate windows.

Re:Mod parent down! No, there is a good reason!

[Anonymous Coward]

I had to do it, on my 2nd post:

To amend data I put up in my 1st post, & put it there, correctly... sorry!

APK

other fixed versions

[Anonymous Coward]

Fix version 2: Bill Gates doesn't care.

Version 3: He thinks he doesn't have to care, simply because he's a billionaire.

Not only did I fix it, it rhymes.

Version 4: Bill Gates cares... about making his operating systems as expensive to maintain as possible. It's not enough to be rich; he wants everyone else to be poor.

Re:Translation: Theenking ooootseede-a zee Oopera

[nuzak]

Nonono, perl code is the wall of unintelligible punctuation.

Well, unless you use this

opera plug-in for firefox?

[crazybilly]

there's a Opera plug-in for Firefox? I might have to try that out. I love Opera--it's quite simply the best browser, but I hate that it's not open source and the fact that it uses Qt on linux. but I can't go to Firefox w/o installing approximately 15 plugins, and that's just not worth it.

Re:MDI

[darthflo]

Great, that may just be the reason why Opera on Windows allows you to seamlessy drag tabs out of the main window (and get 'em back in there by using Ctrl + Z while focusing the main window).

Re:Translation: Theenking ooootseede-a zee Oopera

[Anonymous Coward]

PERL: Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister. LONG LIVE Python!

Small correction needed:

[Poingggg]

"Most sites that "require" a certain browser will work in Safari." should be:

"Most sites that require a certain "browser" will work in Safari."

Proxomitron got me in trouble with /.

[Poingggg]

I used Proxomitron back in 2004 and somehow it managed to create 8000 hits in one hour to /. when I rearranged the panels on the main page. This resulted in me getting banned from Slashdot. Not funny, I can assure you! This came to light after an e-mail exchange with Robert Rozeboom from /. (if you're still working there: thanks Robert!). I found out it was Proxomitron because when I had it active my firewall indicated very heavy network traffic, which did not occur when proxomitron was bypassed.
Of course this was years ago and maybe it's improved now, but I have not used it ever since.

Re:Proxomitron got me in trouble with /.

[FsG]

It's hardly fair to blame proxomitron itself, it sounds more like one of the filters you applied had interacted with Slashdot's scripts in a way you didn't expect. I've been using prox and reading slashdot for years and have never seen a problem.

Re:Proxomitron got me in trouble with /.

[Poingggg]

As I said, it was way back in 2004, so it's quite well possible everything works well now. But the filters you are talking about (don't know if you mean the /.-filters or those in prox) apparently gave trouble. One day I was peacefully browsing /. , the next day I found my IP banned. After asking I was told I had managed to hit the site 8000 times in one houre time. A very good reason for banning, I can't (and didn't) blame them for it. The question was what could have caused this.
After the ban had been lifted it occurred to me that, when I changed the order of the sidepanels on the homepage, very heavy continuous network-traffic occured and held on even when I did nothing like changing pages or reloading stuff. I had seen that before the bannning, but hadn't thought anything of it.
However, after some experimenting, I found out that everything went back to normal when I bypassed/disabled Proxomitron, so that HAD to be the cause of the trouble.
I have removed Proxomitron from my system (and did not like to have to do that!) and have informed Robert Roozeboom, whith whom I had contact about all this) to save others for this predicament.

Long story short: It WAS Proxomitron, in combination with filters that DID interact in an unexpected way with Slashdot's scripts. I reckon Proxomitron to be a good program, but when I used it it proved to have its quirks too in certain circumstances. As I said in my first post, I haven't used it since 2004, but it is very well possible newer versions are better then the one I used (don't ask which one that was, I could't tell if my life depended on it).

Re:Proxomitron got me in trouble with /.

[FsG]

No, I think you misunderstood. I was drawing a distinction between an issue with proxomitron itself, and an issue with a proxomitron filter. I suspect that your issue was the latter, which would make the problem specific to your particular filters. Since YOUR prox filters are different from MY prox filters, there's no reason to believe your particular glitch will affect me, or other prox users.

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[Rogerborg]

Yerrrs, about that.

Step 1: Give away free browser.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: IPO!

There are companies that still produce browsers that are good enough for people to pay money for them. Opera is not one of those companies.

Opera urlfilter is not so good

[xet7]

> - urlfilter with opera ( http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&cid=202 90857 ) is quite good, and a good find

Well, I tried it in Freespire linux (copied to $HOME/.opera/urlfilter.ini), also installed hosts file from http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&cid=202 94125
and still I see ads on some pages. Urlfilter has over 1000 lines, and Ad Muncher has over 4000.
So, current rank:
1. Opera urlfilter - some ads gone
2. Firefox AdBlock - many ads gone
3. Ad Muncher - most, if not all ads gone

I don't know how good is Opera urlfilter capabilities vs AdBlock Plus, can they be joined together.
What is the best blocklist for AdBlock Plus? Url?

About Linux:
I really like Freespire Linux, because watching videos with LBrowser (modified Firefox): Windows Media (watching news), Quicktime (trailers etc), Flash and Java works.
Got my Jabra BT620s bluetooth headset working in bluez-sco, skype and xmms, but not in LBrowser yet. When listening podcast I hear hiss with every s spoken, but maybe by compiling newer version of it I can get it fixed. Hmm, just found GUI tool for bluez-sco, on the bottom of page:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2705335
and got xmms working from page
http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/AudioDevices
that says xmms menu: options->preferences->Output Plugin->Configure: "bluetooth"
VMware player takes too much processing power so laptop gets too noisy, so I'll try to get wine or crossover working. CrossOver Linux trial was strangely very slow with Freespire, so haven't got some windows apps installed.

Re:100% volunteers?

[jlarocco]

The majority of open source development *IS* done by volunteers. Firefox is a little unusual, having originally come from Netscape, but 99% of projects wouldn't have paid developers if a lot of volunteers hadn't put in their time first.

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[Anonymous Coward]

There are companies that still produce browsers that are good enough for people to pay money for them. Opera is not one of those companies. Is there a browser that's significantly better than Opera?

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[VGPowerlord]

I can't think of a desktop browser that people pay for. The main four desktop browsers are Internet Explorer and its rebranded versions (MSN Explorer, AOL web browser), Mozilla and its variations (Firefox, Seamonkey, Camino, Galleon, etc...), Safari, and Opera.

Mobile browsers have a different market, I suppose, and people appear to be willing to pay for Opera Mini in that context.

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[Rogerborg]

> >people appear to be willing to pay for Opera Mini in that context.

Opera Mini appears to be free now as well to end users. They also give it to OEMs in return for putting an Opera button on their handset, to buy mindshare. It was a decent plan, but they needed to get a mortal lock-in on OEMs, and they fell a little short. Even when giving their product away, Opera hasn't managed to displace Access or Picsel browsers, both of which OEMs are happy to pay hard cash for. I do like Opera (both their products and their company), but I think that their post-IPO future is looking a bit lean.

Did his reply & its data upset /. FF & IE

[Anonymous Coward]

The article's writer has to deal with "bandwidth'ing-out" issues most likely... I've been there, on "unlimited bandwidth accounts" (b.s. false advertising is more like it on the part of many ISP's, especially in the past).

This doesn't mean the article's data is invalid though... & "upsets the sensibilities" of the fanboys of IE & FireFox/Mozilla apparently, lol!

APK

P.S.=> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&cid=202 91847

That has a LOT more data that ought to do the same... such as:

  Opera also shows LESS security vulnerabilities than the other 2 of the "big 3" & their most current builds/models/versions:

Opera security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories

FireFox security advisories @ SECUNIA (43% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12434/

IE 7 security advisories @ SECUNIA (56% unpatched):

http://secunia.com/product/12366/

& more, in terms of memory residency as well... apk

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[ccp]

I feel like Opera is just a tad too late to the party to really take off in a big way - had they made their product as easy to get and as visible as Firefox way back when

Dude, I remember learning about Netscape's code donation, and the creation of the Mozilla Foundation (let alone Firefox) in my trusty Opera browser (version 2.52, IIRC).

Check your dates...

Cheers,
CC

Re:I always enjoy interviews with Jon Von Tetzchne

[ccp]

I do believe he means one that's free and has no advertising. Which has been since Opera 8.5 came out in late 2005.

Do you mean somebody actually paid for his ad-free version of Opera?
Instead of just going to this Interweb thingy and find a serial number?
Imagine if a program able to do this actually existed...

Oh, wait...

Nevermind.

Seriously, the reason Opera made the browser free (as in beer) was that not even its most ardent fans, like myself, ever considered paying for a browser.

Cheers,
CC