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Why make licensed mac clones, when you can simply buy an unlicensed knockoff from HP?

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/envy-x2/overview.html

That the line of HP notebooks that are obvious ripoffs of the Macbook Pro & Macbook Air models would be branded as the "Envy" line is so deliciously rich that I didn't even believe they were real when I first saw them. I was convinced they had to be the result of some engineer at HP managing to sneak a big troll past some clueless managers.

Buy them something that comes with phone support. Seriously.

Sure, the support contract may be somewhat expensive, but it's a lot easier when you don't have to worry about support yourself.

Buy them an iMac and get them AppleCare support for 3 years for 169 USD
Buy them a Dell Inspiron One and get 3 Year Enhanced Support for 149 (I can't find a direct link to a description)
Buy them an HP Envy and get an HP 3 year Care Pack149 USD

Or some other company - it doesn't matter. What matters is that they can bother someone other than you about these things.

It boils down to something like 50 dollars a year for ease of mind - both for you and them. Sure, it's easy to call you, but they also worry that they're disturbing you. Much easier to pay someone else to do it.

It sounds callous and harsh, but honestly, having worked in phone support for two of the companies, I can tell you, that once you explain to these people that instead of having to worry about bothering their friends or family, they can simply call us and not have to worry about bothering anybody, you can almost always hear a a load being removed from their shoulders.

Yes, we like being able to draw on help from friends and family, but we also don't want to come off as needy and helpless.

From here
http://h20435.www2.hp.com/t5/The-Next-Bench-Blog/HP-Slate-This-is-the-Droid-You-Were-Looking-For/ba-p/80911

As a result, HPâ(TM)s plan includes a three-tiered approach for the tablet market. Torres adds, âoeWeâ(TM)re looking at mobility in the enterprise commercial tier, where the ElitePad 900 is already getting traction in the marketplace. The Slate is coming from the consumer line, which is really about delivering a great entertainment experience. We also want to create a third tier for premium consumer products â" a Bring-Your-Own solution for the SMB crowd. Think of a device built with a âwork hard, play hardâ(TM) attitude.âoe

The ElitePad 900 is a $649 Windows 8 tablet with 1280 x 800 screen (same resolution as my much cheaper android tablet actually). The inbetween tablet doesn't exist yet. However now there is some context it becomes a little clearer why the slate 7 is a bit so so.

In my opinion HP are trying to bait and switch. The Android tablet is supposed to be the poor mans option, your not a poor man are you? They can't build an Android tablet with decent specs or it will detract from the tablet they really want you to buy. I had to go to HP to find out a little more about the Slate 7 and it still left unanswered questions and in the process of doing so started trying to sell me on its ElitePad. Without the Slate 7 I wouldn't have bothered looking at HP.

If HP really wanted to sell me an Android tablet they could have built an Android version of the Elite Pad with it's better screen keyboard dock , longer life battery faster processor. The Message is clear, Android tablets are an inferior option to a Windows 8 tablet in every respect. Maybe they are still smarting from the failure of WEBOS, Android was the alternative that sunk their investment, I can't see HP as being a fan of Android at all.

I don't see much about the Slate 7 to differentiate it from many other chinese designs other than the badge and the colour scheme. I'm pretty sure any engineer who worked for HP on the Slate 7 would be googling reviews and as Slashdot is on the front page for the Slate 7, Im sure one will comment on one of these threads.

Hewlett-Packard seems more determined than ever to flee the Windows reservation ...

Maybe so, but they don't want to get too far away.

"The new HP ENVY x2 PC gives you the power of two devices in one. A Windows 8 notebook with a bright, vivid HD Touch display. And a tablet that slides off for those times when you want to carry even less."
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/envy-x2/overview.html?jumpid=hpr_r1002_usen_link1
 

Over the past 8 years or so, every single rechargeable device I or anybody I know has owned for more than a year has lost a significant amount of battery capacity. Maybe it is only 30% capacity lost with high-end batteries after two years (~700 charge cycles), but when this is the difference between lasting 14 hours without a charge and not, the user sort of notices.

Incidentally, Li battery deterioration is a popular topic of study, characterization, and consumer education.

  What do you do with your batteries to maintain their capacity? Maybe you are wealthy and don't notice because you replace the whole device instead?

Try looking at HP, Dell and Lenovo.
For instance, here's a few of the ones from HP, Simply filter on "Operating System: Windows 7 (64 bit)":
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B0C30EA&opt=ABU&sel=PCNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B8W13AA&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=H4P02ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=C5A68ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB

Similarly, I found a whole bunch of Thinkpads from Lenovo which ships with Windows 7 after searching for about 1 minute.

Try looking at HP, Dell and Lenovo.
For instance, here's a few of the ones from HP, Simply filter on "Operating System: Windows 7 (64 bit)":
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B0C30EA&opt=ABU&sel=PCNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B8W13AA&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=H4P02ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=C5A68ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB

Similarly, I found a whole bunch of Thinkpads from Lenovo which ships with Windows 7 after searching for about 1 minute.

Try looking at HP, Dell and Lenovo.
For instance, here's a few of the ones from HP, Simply filter on "Operating System: Windows 7 (64 bit)":
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B0C30EA&opt=ABU&sel=PCNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B8W13AA&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=H4P02ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=C5A68ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB

Similarly, I found a whole bunch of Thinkpads from Lenovo which ships with Windows 7 after searching for about 1 minute.

Try looking at HP, Dell and Lenovo.
For instance, here's a few of the ones from HP, Simply filter on "Operating System: Windows 7 (64 bit)":
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B0C30EA&opt=ABU&sel=PCNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=B8W13AA&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=H4P02ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB
http://h20386.www2.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=C5A68ET&opt=ABU&sel=PBNB

Similarly, I found a whole bunch of Thinkpads from Lenovo which ships with Windows 7 after searching for about 1 minute.

First off, FUCK BUYING OFF THE SHELF SYSTEMS! All these brick and mortars are going to do is sell you a craptastic system at an inflated price. And of COURSE all they'll sell you is Windows 8.

Dell

HP

Lenovo

Toshiba

Samsung

Sony

Sager You can still order their products with Win7. The configuration app gives you the option.

MSI MSI laptops still come with Win7. There's a push for Win8, but they come with Win7 by default.

Acer still sells Win7 laptops (just no way on the web to filter for them, so I can't provide a definitive link).

That should be enough to get you started.

"they get most of their income from ink cartridges"

Exaggerate much? You really don't know wtf you are talking about do you?

here's a chart with HPs revenue by segment:
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-hp-revenue-by-segment-2011-8

here's their 2012 q2 results:
http://h30261.www3.hp.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=71087&p=irol-newsarticle&ID=1699267

printing and imaging division is about 20% of revenue -- that includes ink cartridges, printers, commercial printers, etc. The division has a 13.2% operating margin -- less than their software division (17.7%). For comparison, services has a 11.3% operating margin, enterprise servers - 11.2%, financial services - 9.9%, and personal systems - 5.5%

On a tech campus just east of Stanford. After their historical garage . HP was mainly about electronic instruments then. Xerox PARC, NeXT and FaceBook had buildings in the same complex.

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/software/debian/index.html I'm sure they also support it since they've got drivers and software for the distro. I didn't bother looking for prices and stuff, but I'm certain you can put on your big boy pants and figure it out yourself. If you _really_ wanted to know.

If you want a Surface competitor, look at the HP Envy X2 http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/envy-x2/overview.html

Not even close. The HP Envy specs:
- CPU is Atom (Surface Pro is 3th generation i5)
- Resolution only 1366x768 (Surface Pro is 1920x1080)
- SSD only upto 64GB (Surface Pro is upto 128GB)

I am looking for a Surface Pro clone, more specifically a 16"+ laptop with 2560x1440 resolution, with touch and (a proper, precise, pressure sensitive) pen, and 250GB+ SSD, and i5 or better.
If anyone knows of anything that has at least the resolution and pen, i'm grateful.

And it's a swivel-screen laptop rather than a flat tablet with a removable keyboard.

If you want a Surface competitor, look at the HP Envy X2 http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/envy-x2/overview.html

Just a few Google taking me next to no time. Wasn't all that difficult, now was it? I'm sure now you got a lead, you can continue your own research.

Personally, I recently saw an Acer "Netbook" on sale with a Celeron 867/4GB RAM for 495€ Sure, it's Intel, but it's not an Ultrabook (misses the Core iN CPU), but kicks the crap out of anything that passes as an Atom-based Netbook. Heck, i could see myself do most of my work on it, if it had better resolution, but the resolution it offers is the "standard" in Ultrabooks too. I didn't buy it, because I couldn't justify a 3rd laptop...

http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/10287678/mfg_partno/E554632

When you find the price you will utterly crap yourself. Most people drive cars that cost less than these things. And I got them for about $600 each in an auction. Like new.

Really? Lets take that for a test run shall we?

Standard 27" iMac is $1800, has 2.9Ghz i5, 8GB, 1TB, 512MB Video.
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD095LL/A?

Dell's closest I could find was one XPS One 27 Touch. $1600, 2.7Ghz i5, 6GB, 1TB, Intel Integrated Graphics.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=fxdwvx25h&model_id=xps-one-27-2710-aio&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

HP's closest I could find was the HP Z1 Workstation, $2150, Xeon E3 3.3Ghz, 4GB, 500GB, Intel Integrated Graphics.
http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/Desktops?SearchParameter=%26%40QueryTerm%3D*%26categoryusagedesktops_dte2%3DAll-in-One%26CategoryUUIDLevelX%3DOp0QxXjbaUcAAAE0eehcZzOt%26Processor_facet_DTE2%3DIntel%26TieredPricing2%3D%255B1200.0%2BTO%2B9999.99%255D%26%40Sort.TieredPricing%3D0&PageSize=15

From this simple search, it can be seen that you are full of shit. Even getting a more expensive iMac with a 3.4Ghz i7 is only $2200, and it includes a 1GB Nvidia Graphics instead of the Intel Integrated Graphics.
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD096LL/A?

http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/workstations/8770w_features.html

17.3" diagonal display
up to 32GB of RAM in four DIMM slots

FreeBSD... actually BSD is very newsworthy as it holds an integral part of computer history. Like other important pieces of history such as VMS, IBM 360, and other gone technologies BSD will be part of it that we owe a gratitude for.

Actually, neither BSD nor VMS are gone - OS X is a BSD-flavored OS at the UNIX layer, and DEC^WCompaq^WHP are still selling VMS IBM haven't made S/360's for a while, but they are making their (64-bit) descendants, which still run a descendant of OS/360, a descendant of DOS/360, a descendant of CP/CMS, and even a descendant of the Airlines Control Program. And, yes, it runs Linux, although I don't know of any BSD ports.

HP has a backdoor-by-design, it's called ePrint, where the printer phones home to HP and maintains contact with "the cloud", so that email and web printing jobs can be sent to the printer from knowing a not-too-long URL.

Then there is the HP flaw where a printer's firmware can be updated over the Internet by anyone or even through a specially crafted print job to do whatever they like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njVv7J2azY8 (long technical video). Of course HP semi-refuted this faster than a security researcher there would have been able to investigate.

"We're working with Nokia on a 35s with a graphing function that has an inverted-color screen. We're calling it the Lumia X-Ray." -Meg Whitman

HP still offers RPN on a few of their calculators. In the graphing-calculator department, there's the HP 50g, which can switch between RPN and non-RPN modes.

They have a list of the six RPN calculators they still sell here (bottom of the page).

It does have a remote access card you can put in, take a look at its manual or a review. I have one N36L installed with this card in a closet back home and it makes one hell of a Proxmox VE machine.

I don't work in a data center. But I think you might want to look at an HP Proliant MicroServer.

Basically it is an AMD laptop chipset on a tiny motherboard in a cunningly designed compact enclosure. The SATA drives go into carriers that are easily swapped (but not hot-swappable). It's quiet and power-efficient. It supports ECC memory (max 8GB) and supports virtualization.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06b/15351-15351-4237916-4237918-4237917-4248009-5153252-5153253.html?dnr=1

Silent PC Review did a complete review of an older model (with a 1.3 GHz Turion instead of 1.5 GHz).

http://www.silentpcreview.com/HP_Proliant_MicroServer

SRP is $350, but Newegg has it for $320 (limit 5 per customer).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859107052

Newegg also has 8GB of ECC RAM for about $55, so you can get one of these and max its RAM for under $400.

I just got one and haven't had time to really wring it out, but I did do the RAM upgrade. Despite the tiny enclosure, it wasn't too painful to work on it, and I was impressed by the design. The Turion dual-core processor has a passive heat sink on it, and the single large fan on the back pulls air through to cool everything. (There is also a tiny high-speed fan on the power supply.)

I'm going to use this as my personal mail server. It's cheap enough and small enough that I plan to have at least one put away as a hot spare; if the server dies, I'll power it down, move the hard drives to the spare, and I'll have the mail server back up within 5 minutes. Not bad for a cheap little box.

Size.

The first from Google (21", 19,8" viewable, 2048x1536):

http://bizsupport1.austin.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/lpv07137/lpv07137.pdf

Weight: 30.5kg.
"30 minutes to reach optimum performance level".

Size: Gigantic.

Power consumption: 130W, not *that* bad when compared to living-room displays (but hey, sizes on them are not on 21" range) - a modern computer display (27", 2650x1440) from last year consumes 51,3 and the review calls it power hungry):

http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/samsung-syncmaster-s27a850d/4505-3174_7-35018743-2.html

So yes, being able to move the display as an skinny nerd is a plus, not requiring a gigantic place is nice, and the power consumption...well, if you keep the monitor active 8 hours a day, take a calculator and see for yourself on your electricity prices how much a waste that CRT is.

And yes, the good ones are still used professionally because they still deliver, but the cheap big CRTs were shait also on geometry - on low end you get garbage anyway in some aspects.

-k

HP offers a 27" 2560x1440 monitor for "only" $750.

link

I can get external WiFi hard drives if I want more storage space and play media from them.

Wifi harddrive? Really? Those things have terrible transfer rates, cost at least twice as much as regular harddrives, and further require extra power draw. I haven't used one with an iPad so I'm not sure how the experience is there, but I have not been pleased with them.

Regardless, the iPad still does not offer always-in extensible storage. Max you can ever do is 64GB. For around $100 I can put in a 128GB SD card into the surface for total always on-board storage of 160GB (which incidentally is about the same price to go from 32 to 64 GB on the iPad).

That is correct. But that matters more than you would think.

I'm not so sure. On my desktop install, I have full office, Adobe CS6 (Photoshop, Illustartor, InDesign, Premiere), Matlab, Visual Studio, and a couple games and those massive beasts only take around 20GB of storage, which is around what the Surface has for Appdata. On my windows 8 install I have around 70 apps installed, and the total diskspace they consume is around 2GB. Remember, these are metro apps which are for the most part very light.

The iPad also has a USB port. How do you know ANY of those things (apart from mice) will have drivers in WindowsRT?

By way of $30 dongle. You can't just connect anything you like to it. USB drives, mice, and external harddrives for instance are not supported. It is intended as a "camera connection" kit for transferring pictures from a camera, and not much else.

As far as windows RT peripheral support, yes mice, keyboards, USB drives, and portable harddrives will universally work through standard drivers. Aside from them Dell and HP are supporting Windows RT with their printer lines. Yes, many still aren't supported, but the list is growing. Microsoft already announced Xbox 360 controllers will work with Windows RT.

Look, the same people shipping windows RT products are also the ones making peripherals and writing drivers for said peripherals. If Dell is selling a Windows RT tablet, they're going to make damn sure their printers and other accessories will also work with their Windows RT tablet in particular and other Windows RT tablets as a consequence. This is not true with Apple, where device makers can only hope that by making their printer or other hardware compatible with iPad (where at all possible) they can at least get one of Apple's customers to purchase through them.

You can with the right application. You mentioned Dropbox as one of them.

Ah, I see. Thanks, but not really what I was looking for.

I can't see that being the only criteria for any enterprise use.

Of course it's not the *only* criteria. But say I want to equip a salesman with a tablet. I want him to be able to accept signatures, to run custom sales software, to connect to our corporate network via VPN, to be able to download inventory data, to create purchase orders... etc. Netbooks, Ultrabooks, Macbook Air, etc. can probably do 90% of that. But accepting signatures is a great feature for a mobile salesperson. Or even the ability to pass the device around a room easily, which a tablet allows and a clamshell form factor prohibits, is a great feature. Windows 8 tablets do all of the above and the extra 10%.

Yeah, there have been no tablets with a full OS on them previous to now. Not a single one.

The difference: Nobody likes full blown Windows on a tablet. That's why nobody, including you, remembers that they've existed for a decade.

Yeah, there have been no tablets with a full OS on them previous to now. Not a single one.

The difference: Nobody likes full blown Windows on a tablet. That's why nobody, including you, remembers that they've existed for a decade.

Note: I am not the grand parent poster.

Like it or hate it, Device Manager is a cake-walk to use and anybody can figure it out in a few minutes.

You get "Unknown device" in the device manager and you have no idea what it is or what driver or anything, you can't grab a driver from windows update, because windows update doesn't have it. The only way to know is if the driver is installed that you don't have installed because you don't know what driver you need which is fairly difficult if you're just given a machine, with no information as to what it's components are and expected to install a version of Windows with whatever drivers it needs without opening the case.

At least on Linux you can do a lspci and identify what hardware is there and what drivers you need to install. With stuff like "Hardware Drivers" (in Ubuntu) where you just point and click to install proprietary drivers when you want them, it's not really any worse than Windows at that point.

Is there a good resource for finding Linux friendly hardware?

Some Linux OEMs like:

http://system76.com/
http://www.dell.com/linux
http://www.hp.com/linux
https://www.avadirect.com/
http://cosmos.linuxbeach.net/
http://www.eightvirtues.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/

I have been looking for this because I am in the process of trying to build a machine that is Linux friendly and I have been struggling with this.

Linus uses Apple hardware at the moment to my knowledge.

uh, that is when you get the hp sas expander card http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantstorage/arraycontrollers/sas-expander/index.html it is the very definition of what you are trying to do ..

Say whaaa?

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=jDJwlVlq2W9SR0Yk2kO1Yuen0000RY7_SsAU;sid=NNLNV0JsddjuVxI9FtUFw5tj5tz1JocNN3Q=?ProductUUID=ymEQ7EN5Nu4AAAEzjhhtcQnj&CatalogCategoryID=

The P420ZMR on that server can handle up to 27 internal drives.

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantstorage/arraycontrollers/index.html

Say whaaa?

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start;pgid=jDJwlVlq2W9SR0Yk2kO1Yuen0000RY7_SsAU;sid=NNLNV0JsddjuVxI9FtUFw5tj5tz1JocNN3Q=?ProductUUID=ymEQ7EN5Nu4AAAEzjhhtcQnj&CatalogCategoryID=

The P420ZMR on that server can handle up to 27 internal drives.

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantstorage/arraycontrollers/index.html

Anand said the same thing. The thing is, alot of these things are designed for businesses.

How about this one?

http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP-Pavilion-Slimline/B3F71AV?HP-Pavilion-Slimline-s5-1310t-Desktop-PC

That one is 3.3GHz dual core i3, 4GB of RAM, free upgrade to a 1TB HD, DVD burner, and costs $450

Well I have HDDs that survive 7000-10000 passes per minute for 3 years, not going to try drowning them though ;).

I've seen bad stuff happen with tape at a few different places - e.g. tapes that can only be read by the same drive that wrote them, tape drives that chew up backup tape. Tapes that wear out prematurely. So while HDDs are crap, I don't see tapes being better if you're not going to archive tons of stuff (which is likely to be the case for personal use as per this topic).

Even with LTO tape you're still supposed to check for damage due to drops (e.g. someone else dropping them) and not stick damaged ones in drives:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/c02260070/c02260070.pdf?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN

There are also portable usb HDDs that are designed to survive dropping (some are even waterproof), and they aren't really that expensive esp when you consider the drive is included with the media ;).

You make it sound like vendors such as HP, System76, Lenovo etc. don't have already existing, presupported hardware setups for Linux that have full hardware acceleration. Maybe in future you should buy supported hardware to run on Linux instead? Because if you aren't going to buy properly supported hardware, VALVe supporting Linux isn't going to magically make it work anymore than it is now.

I think it was an older model TouchSmart:

http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/touchsmart/index.html

Sure they do!
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/xtablet-series/x230t/
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/5169094-5169094-5102710-5256972-5256964-5071191.html?dnr=1
http://www.dell.com/us/k-12/p/latitude-xt3/pd

But they still have all the same drawbacks that made them unpopular before the iPad. Of those, the Lenovo is the only one really worth your while. I suspect after Windows 8 launches, we're going to see a whole new set of convertible/hybrid tablet PCs that are built for consumers with better prices and longer battery life. We've already seen a slew at Computex, some which were bizarre, some which were very promising.

And a bunch of others (year indicates introduction, not shipments):

HP Slate 500, 2009: http://h71016.www7.hp.com/html/Slate/index.asp
CrunchPad, 2008: http://www.esarcasm.com/8319/crunchpad-dead/
Axiotron Modbook 2007: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiotron_Modbook
Knight-Ridder tablet, 1994 : http://adverlab.blogspot.com/2010/09/ipad-like-newspaper-tablet-concept-from.html
Arthur C. Clarke's Newspad: 1968: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3949GAIokg&feature=player_embedded

I think the problem is you seem to be under the impression that by hanging some nicer curtains you can turn Mickey D's into Olive garden and it just don't work that way

No I'm saying if you rip the kitchen and chairs out of a Mickey D's and then redecorate you can still use the walls and floor to have an Olive Garden. You don't have to burn the whole building to the ground. But more importantly I don't think of Windows as Mickey D's. I'd consider myself if anything a bit anti-Microsoft and I don't have nearly as low an opinion as you do. Dynamics is not Oracle Financials but it is a terrific package, and I think every company under 10,000 employees has to consider, not necessarily pick but consider, when choosing an ERP. . Sharepoint is not Documentum but it is a terrific package that allows people to setup rather advanced sharing features really cheaply. SQL server is a very compelling product that for going on 15 years has allowed people without DBA skills to not notice they don't have them while running large databases.

Going more towards the home market. Office is far and away the best office suite. The NT Kernel is possible second to the Linux kernel in terms of complexity and features but it is head and shoulders above XNU (the OSX kernel). The Visual Studio compiler is bar none the best compiler on the market. I don't even like Microsoft and I don't think of them down where you are putting them.

I am the Apple customer you are talking about and I consider the better Windows machines. I'd consider Mickey D's to be something like JavaVM-OS (what runs on lots of clock radio type stuff through low end phones), or if you want to focus on systems where people interact with the VM something like Chrome operation system which offers nothing but a browser.

Same with AMD, they make good processors The 16 core AMD Opteron is a really interesting processor that allows you to run a simple simulation of a few thousands agents cheap. And the 8 core are only a little slower than a high end Xeon for much less. Just to show that do sell in higher end boxes like the HP ProBook 6565, the Samsung series 3, and for business HP Proliant D165,

I agree with your sales figures in today's market. The high end of the Windows consumer market is dead, dead as a doornail. Where I disagree is that is something intrinsic. I think that happened when Microsoft decided not to bring out the original vision for Longhorn (later Vista) as a higher end OS with XP owning the low end. Instead they constantly ended up pushing Vista down market first by remove two key features (WinFS and Palladium) and later with their "ready for Vista" approach. In other words I think Microsoft chased the low end of the market in both enterprise and consumer. And that's why they lost much high end.

But the main thing is that its been recent. This is not something that's been true for 10 years. If your negative assessment of Windows were true they wouldn't have been selling high end systems well 5 years ago.

I agree with the hardware upgrades though I don't think it would be quite so bad as the expectations change. Let me just add to the hardware costs you mentioned:
-- high quality touch screens
-- a hinge that allows the touch screen to move relative the keyboard, which is not a cheap part generally about $150

So we agree there. Now the thing is the sales of 30k exist because Windows consumers would rather buy a $500 PC than a $1000 PC even if the $1000 PC is much better. I'm talking about a situation where the $500 PC option (except for Linux or used) doesn't exist. Where Microsoft shifts the market. Those sales figures wouldn't apply.

Let me put it THIS way friend...if someone said they would sell the ultimate laptop for you

I think the problem is you seem to be under the impression that by hanging some nicer curtains you can turn Mickey D's into Olive garden and it just don't work that way

No I'm saying if you rip the kitchen and chairs out of a Mickey D's and then redecorate you can still use the walls and floor to have an Olive Garden. You don't have to burn the whole building to the ground. But more importantly I don't think of Windows as Mickey D's. I'd consider myself if anything a bit anti-Microsoft and I don't have nearly as low an opinion as you do. Dynamics is not Oracle Financials but it is a terrific package, and I think every company under 10,000 employees has to consider, not necessarily pick but consider, when choosing an ERP. . Sharepoint is not Documentum but it is a terrific package that allows people to setup rather advanced sharing features really cheaply. SQL server is a very compelling product that for going on 15 years has allowed people without DBA skills to not notice they don't have them while running large databases.

Going more towards the home market. Office is far and away the best office suite. The NT Kernel is possible second to the Linux kernel in terms of complexity and features but it is head and shoulders above XNU (the OSX kernel). The Visual Studio compiler is bar none the best compiler on the market. I don't even like Microsoft and I don't think of them down where you are putting them.

I am the Apple customer you are talking about and I consider the better Windows machines. I'd consider Mickey D's to be something like JavaVM-OS (what runs on lots of clock radio type stuff through low end phones), or if you want to focus on systems where people interact with the VM something like Chrome operation system which offers nothing but a browser.

Same with AMD, they make good processors The 16 core AMD Opteron is a really interesting processor that allows you to run a simple simulation of a few thousands agents cheap. And the 8 core are only a little slower than a high end Xeon for much less. Just to show that do sell in higher end boxes like the HP ProBook 6565, the Samsung series 3, and for business HP Proliant D165,

I agree with your sales figures in today's market. The high end of the Windows consumer market is dead, dead as a doornail. Where I disagree is that is something intrinsic. I think that happened when Microsoft decided not to bring out the original vision for Longhorn (later Vista) as a higher end OS with XP owning the low end. Instead they constantly ended up pushing Vista down market first by remove two key features (WinFS and Palladium) and later with their "ready for Vista" approach. In other words I think Microsoft chased the low end of the market in both enterprise and consumer. And that's why they lost much high end.

But the main thing is that its been recent. This is not something that's been true for 10 years. If your negative assessment of Windows were true they wouldn't have been selling high end systems well 5 years ago.

I agree with the hardware upgrades though I don't think it would be quite so bad as the expectations change. Let me just add to the hardware costs you mentioned:
-- high quality touch screens
-- a hinge that allows the touch screen to move relative the keyboard, which is not a cheap part generally about $150

So we agree there. Now the thing is the sales of 30k exist because Windows consumers would rather buy a $500 PC than a $1000 PC even if the $1000 PC is much better. I'm talking about a situation where the $500 PC option (except for Linux or used) doesn't exist. Where Microsoft shifts the market. Those sales figures wouldn't apply.

Let me put it THIS way friend...if someone said they would sell the ultimate laptop for you

So, let's start with the cheapest laptop Apple makes, the 13 inch MBP - i5 with HD4000 graphics and 4GB RAM, 500GB drive at $1199.

Dell - no similar laptop, even their $1800 or so Lattitude only has HD3000 graphics, they're all 2nd gen i5 processors.

HP has two at first look: $999 model and a $1399 model. Reviewing the specs, however, show that these are actually competitors to the 13" Mac Air, at $1199 which weighs less and comes with better confirmed battery life than HP posted. So, HP is also appears to be out in most comparisons, although they might have a slightly less expensive Air model. I didn't look deep enough to figure out exactly what the differences between their $999 and $1399 models were, nor how they compare exactly with the Mac Air. I just gave them the benefit of the doubt and stated they were mostly comparable, and dropped the issue of screen resolution differences (HP is wider, but shorter than the Mac Air, but not enough to belabor over in this comparison)

I didn't bother to look any further - I think the above speaks for itself across 2 product comparisons and continues to support what I found a year ago when matching 15" laptops. There is little, if any, "Apple tax" on the surface, and none when looking at what comes with the system as a whole, at least for a large portion of their products.

So, let's start with the cheapest laptop Apple makes, the 13 inch MBP - i5 with HD4000 graphics and 4GB RAM, 500GB drive at $1199.

Dell - no similar laptop, even their $1800 or so Lattitude only has HD3000 graphics, they're all 2nd gen i5 processors.

HP has two at first look: $999 model and a $1399 model. Reviewing the specs, however, show that these are actually competitors to the 13" Mac Air, at $1199 which weighs less and comes with better confirmed battery life than HP posted. So, HP is also appears to be out in most comparisons, although they might have a slightly less expensive Air model. I didn't look deep enough to figure out exactly what the differences between their $999 and $1399 models were, nor how they compare exactly with the Mac Air. I just gave them the benefit of the doubt and stated they were mostly comparable, and dropped the issue of screen resolution differences (HP is wider, but shorter than the Mac Air, but not enough to belabor over in this comparison)

I didn't bother to look any further - I think the above speaks for itself across 2 product comparisons and continues to support what I found a year ago when matching 15" laptops. There is little, if any, "Apple tax" on the surface, and none when looking at what comes with the system as a whole, at least for a large portion of their products.

HP could go a couple ways yet. They've got a 'softy leading them right now.

But this is interesting tech.

HP already sells a 3d printer. Prints ABS filament, like many of the RepRap style 3D printers.

It's HP, though. $35 per kilo? Try $333 per kilo.

To be fair, that's still a bit less than half the price of silver.

I don't know what HP's plans were BEFORE Oracle dumped Itanium support but according to the HP-UX support maxtrix from February 2012, they will support some Itanium systems until 2018. I don't know if they killed any products early due to lack of Oracle software support but without Oracle support, I would bet there is every reason for many of the Itanium users to (1) cancel any planned Itanium purchases and (2) drop the existing ones. With them being taken out of service, HP loses revenue. It's a lot of money but it likely forced them to kill a product line early and encouraged existing more or less happy users to bail earlier than HP planned.

http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/downloads/public_hp-ux_systems_support.pdf?jumpid=ex_R1533_us/en/large/eb/go/hpuxservermatrix

I thought we were comparing tablets, or netbooks/ultrabooks with a touch screen interface.

While interesting, what you linked to does not seem to have a touchscreen interface listed in the specs. HP only seems to offer a single touchscreen product for almost 3 times as much when you search their site.

I'm particularly interested in the touchscreen for some mobile employee use cases that we have. The Latitude XT tablet is the cheapest that I can find starting at $750. Without the dock, this new Transformer Prime is $499, considerably less than $750. That's an Android OS, but I have been looking into HTML5 to capture touch screen input.

HP sells stuff as low as $600. It has 4x the RAM, 5x the storage, a much larger (and much lower resolution) screen, more (and more useful) ports, and a backlit keyboard. It's also branded as a "Sleekbook", whatever the hell that means, since it seems like they're reserving "Ultrabook" for their more expensive options. Most ultrabooks that were linked from Intel's page on the topic seem to start at $750 or higher and go up from there, so I'm guessing HP's choice to not brand this device as such is indicative of it being rather crappy.

How it would compare in benchmarks against this tablet, I have no clue, but there's an option, since you asked for one.

Ok, new plan. Figure out a way to get HP to purchase IKEA.

Let's put it this way: Were that to happen, Ikea furniture would stop being named $NORDIC_NONSENSE_WORD$ $SIMPLE DESCRIPTION OF PURPOSE$ and start having names sufficiently complex to be described in 20 pages of tables(seriously, pages 1-2 through 1-21, inclusive)...