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I tried to give KDE a chance years ago and didn't like it. Since Gnome 3 sucks, I looked around and am currently using Cinnamon.

It still needs a little polishing but overall it is a great desktop GUI.

If you feel Gnome 3 is too much but you don't want to part with your GTK+ apps you might be willing to try XFCE or Cinnamon.

I have a love-hate relationship with Gnome 3 right now. There's some things about it that i love and others i loathe. Working with multiple windows, for example, is a pain in the ass. I might go back to XFCE soon, which in many ways is Gnome 2 without all the Gnome crud.

I abandoned Ubuntu when Unity was foisted on users, moving over to Mint.

Mint 12 was the most unholy mess of a piece of software I have ever tried; and its desktop environment, no matter how they call it, is just a badly patched version of gnome 3.

I apologize for the flame, but I feel that Mint is doing much more harm than good to the Linux world. They funnel away users from real distribution baiting them with a quick remix of Ubuntu; the issue they are actually most accurate to fix are the sponsor referrals.

And, they don't contribute anything back to the community, except for some unstable aesthetic patches for gnome and a couple of wallpapers. They don't even have a proper bug tracker: the answer is report to Ubuntu, let the South Africans do the work, all we do is pre-install the multimedia repository, deprecate dist upgrade and get the cash.

I abandoned Ubuntu when Unity was foisted on users, moving over to Mint.

With the Maya release (aka Mint 13) they've left behind Gnome for a choice of MATE or Cinnamon. I installed the latter, and I'm liking it a LOT.

Lots of good, simple usability, and a decided lack of annoying flash and gadgetry.

Nonetheless, I'll likely give the new KDE a look.

Yep they do. Main page already has the 8 listed for version 13: http://www.linuxmint.com/release.php?id=18
AFAIK the last time they put out an XFCE was version 9, when they also had a Fluxbox. I assume that's been completely dropped. The version 13 user's guide is written in terms of MATE. Are you sure they aren't going Gnome variants only?

Mint has a fairly good 'data and software package list backup, then do a fresh install from livecd' approach for upgrades.

More here.

Yes, we can use the Goggle (an amusing misspelling of an acqaintance of mine), but it wouldn't hurt if the article would mention what these things actually are (or link to a page that directly explains what they are) instead of leaving me to guess. My research now shows that:

1. Linux Mint is a linux distribution based on Ubuntu targeting users with little or no Linux experience.
2. Cinnamon is a fork of the GNOME Shell.

I don't live and breathe Linux, though I'm reading Slashdot pretty much every day. If someone wandered onto Slashdot by mistake, would they know what the heck this article is about?

p.s. Shame on you for linking one particular mirror. Find your best download options here.

Nah. Not going back. Unity is too painful a recent memory. I'm with Mint now.

Well, I tried UBUNTU 12.4 for the past days, beginning with the April 20th beta. It is hardly much better than 11.10, the previous version.
If I open a window full screen, all the buttons are hidden and I cannot reduce the window size to allow me to get the pop-in-pop-out favourites bar that is on the left. I had to try with alt-tab and here too, I selected the running application I wanted, by landing on the icon, and sorry, the tendancy is to return to the current full screen running app.

It seems that fullscreen has no return (or has one I did not know about). It seems that Some software no longer recognize or receive mouse clicks. Time to wait a month for patches to be applied.

The Cinnamon desktop can be installed on Ubuntu. I've been using it for a while and I really like it. I think it's a good alternative for people who don't like Unity. http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/

Indeed, Maya is expected to be available at the end of May.

And let's be fair to Ubuntu, it's not just about the advance warning. Just as Debian is relevant on the desktop as the base for Ubuntu, Ubuntu is relevant for providing application repositories for Mint.

Nah. Not going back. Unity is too painful a recent memory. I'm with Mint now.

Mint doesn't quite do it for me. I use it at work, but I really prefer my home system that still has Gnome 2 and its applets and icons that can be dragged to the bar at the top of the screen, whatever that's called.

Nah. Not going back. Unity is too painful a recent memory. I'm with Mint now.

I'm actually scared of upgrading my friend's desktop to a newer version of Ubuntu. He's computer illiterate and has been using Ubuntu more-or-less fine for several years now, but I know him and while I can tolerate even the most bone-headed of interface (I used old versions of Mentor Graphics for example) this shit is going to drive him insane and he'll stop using it.

I have been using an Ubuntu 11.10 computer with MATE installed, and I am happy with it. I have removed all the overlay-scrollbar packages and the result is a nice usable GNOME 2.x desktop.

http://mate-desktop.org/

Long-term, the future is probably Cinnamon, which is built on top of the new GNOME 3.x libraries but aims to duplicate the desktop features of GNOME 2.x.

http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/

steveha

It's not as automated, but it's still possible.

http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/344

As of update 4 which is currently the Release Candidate.

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1967

pfft, out of the frying pan, into the blazing inferno of thrown chairs.

Better fix here.

(Mate) looks like a dead-end. I'm sticking with xfce. Those guys should, too. It will probably be easier to do what they want with that base instead of the Gnome 2 base

Using cinnamon http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/ its a step forward from Gnome 2 without the regressions.

hey, I installed 2.x on a computer semi-recently, because it was loaded with windows ME. similar hardware to yours. it was fine and even the OS was clean and responsive and not crashing at all. I say run win 9x and firefox 2 if you want a retro-gaming machine. (full speed native DOS games with sound, yay!)

but the beauty of linux is you can run totally up to date OS and software on old crap. well XP works but is a pain, has to be fully updated else you get pwned in a few minutes. here's an excellent OS, it's made of ubuntu 11.10 and firefox 10, but without all the suckage : http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1930 . it should run like a charm on your piece of crap. i.e. you click on the start menu and it actually comes up instantly..

because with mint you can't really upgrade. Ugrading on mint just implies backup-reinstall-restore.
checkt it here
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2

I'd suggest Linux Mint, and in particular, Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE).

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1818

Mint now comes w/ KDE as well, in addition to MGSE and MATE. Right now, this is based on Ubuntu, but Mint has also released a Mint Debian Edition, currently offered w/ Gnome (they were unclear on whether it was Gnome3 or MGSE/MATE/Cinnamon) and XFCE, but which will be coming out w/ KDE in the near future. For now, one can use the Mint that comes w/ KDE 4.7.4.

Don't do that to me. You make my brain go strange places.

I'm picturing a security-focussed Linux-based portable computer, that uses the Linux Mint distribution, but only a really stripped-down, bare-minimum installation. Just enough that once you set up the password to log in, you can then run a virtual machine from an encrypted loopback device which actually contains a "full" Linux Mint distribution.

And then you install that setup on one of these...

"Double Mint Gum(stix)"

Or install Linux Mint Debian edition with XFCE: http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

This gives you the benefit of Debian rolling releases and I found that my wifi worked out of the box just as it does on Ubuntu based distros. XFCE uses GTK 2, and should eventually move to GTK 3 when that API stabilises. This seems to be the best option for me for now, although I'm keeping an eye on Cinnamon.

Linux Mint.

I've been long time (K)Ubuntu user on the desktop but I'm not liking some of their recent direction with regards to UI and such. I've been playing with Linux Mint in a VM for a while now and really like it. It's Ubuntu but with a clean and polished Gnome / KDE; none of the Unity stuff.

I had been thinking about going back to Fedora or some other distro, but I think I'll be putting Linux Mint on my desktops next time I upgrade, probably in May / June when Linux Mint 13 will be out (new releases follow about a month after new Ubuntu releases).

Just spend 5 minutes looking for the "about" page on cinnamon.

Failed to find it.

Did you see the first post on that blog (really, a blog and not a website)? It tells you exactly what cinnamon is, its origin, even an etymology:
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?p=1

Don't bother reading it, though, most of the information looks lifted from the Wikipedia article about the _spice_!

I for one, love cinnamon. http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/ :D

Linux Mint just has the new Mint KDEt released. Mint also has made an agreement with Netrunner to co-develop KDE. So I reckon you'd be in good hands with Mint KDE. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1927

Yes, for me, the reason I'm not using any other KDE based distro is because I want access to the awesome Ubuntu package repositories, as well as all the PPAs. I love PPAs, and apparently so does a lot of other users and developers.

Well, the KDE version of Mint just got released late last week, so you are in luck. I'd say the timing is great, and agree w/ the GP - w/ Mint/KDE, why bother w/ Kubuntu - you can get the same repositories. Kubuntu has some strange choices, such as making Rekonq, instead of Konqueror, their default browser due to Webkit replacing KHTML, despite the fact that Rekonq is not yet v1 as yet.

With version 1.2 that came out yesterday, yes. The new version supports

Traditional layout (one panel at the bottom)
Flipped layout (one panel at the top)
Classic layout (one panel at the bottom and one panel at the top)

http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?p=119

Linix Mint 12 has a new DE they're developing called Cinnamon that is making rapid progress and creates an environment similar to Gnome 2 but built on Gnome 3.
I installed it and am very happy with it so far. More information can be had at http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/

speaking of which, Clem's Cinnamon project (GNOME 3 under the hood but usable and configurable and not forcing an idea of workflow on user, yay!) is coming along very well, Mint 13 will have this. They're still adding the base features, but they have the right goals: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1910

There's a number of users making it do what they want but they're running up against nonsense, like having to edit files in a specific order.

Link for the opt-out tool: http://linuxmint.com

FTFY

This has nothing to do with software freedom. It's not a question of whether Mint should have the right to do it, but whether they are jerks or not by doing it.

If I remember correctly, the last time I used Mint (years ago), it was set up in such a way that the income gleaned from the Google searches from the default browser, Firefox, went to Mint and NOT Firefox. I also seem to remember that there was no way of changing this.

Actually, after a bit of research, it appears that it's worse. From reading this, it looks like Mint has its own search engine option that it has slipped into Firefox. HERE is a writeup on it. HERE is the official Mint word on the whole thing:

The reason it is different is because instead of using the default plugin we now distribute our own and take advantage of a Google Custom Search Engine. The reason it it is different from the default Google search is because Google doesn’t offer the same features to Custom search engines as it does when searching directly from google.com. The reason we changed from default google to a custom engine is because it generates a lot of revenue and this single plugin could potentially make Linux Mint into a company which actually hires full-time employees.

Seems this isn't the first time Mint has done this. Don't get me wrong, they deserve money for the work they do, but not at the expense of those that made the tools that make Mint and other Linux distro's worth using.

This has nothing to do with software freedom. It's not a question of whether Mint should have the right to do it, but whether they are jerks or not by doing it.

If I remember correctly, the last time I used Mint (years ago), it was set up in such a way that the income gleaned from the Google searches from the default browser, Firefox, went to Mint and NOT Firefox. I also seem to remember that there was no way of changing this.

Actually, after a bit of research, it appears that it's worse. From reading this, it looks like Mint has its own search engine option that it has slipped into Firefox. HERE is a writeup on it. HERE is the official Mint word on the whole thing:

The reason it is different is because instead of using the default plugin we now distribute our own and take advantage of a Google Custom Search Engine. The reason it it is different from the default Google search is because Google doesn’t offer the same features to Custom search engines as it does when searching directly from google.com. The reason we changed from default google to a custom engine is because it generates a lot of revenue and this single plugin could potentially make Linux Mint into a company which actually hires full-time employees.

Seems this isn't the first time Mint has done this. Don't get me wrong, they deserve money for the work they do, but not at the expense of those that made the tools that make Mint and other Linux distro's worth using.

Do they use Gtk 2.x, or Gtk 3.x?

They are taking all the GTK 2.x libraries and renaming them. Their goal is to allow MATE to co-exist nicely with GNOME 3 on the same computer.

Once they have it working, they might look at adopting the GNOME 3 libraries. But what they are doing right now is the fastest route to a stable MATE desktop that co-exists with GNOME 3.

If you want something that looks more like GNOME 2 but runs on the GNOME 3 libraries, take a look at MGSE.

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851

steveha

I love Mint but 11 is as far as I can go right now. I'm aware of the work of bimsebasse and esteban1uy but myself and many other users aren't interested in manually editing one XML file after another and installing myriad extensions in a special order. I'm actually hoping they'll get things sorted out in the current version of Mint. If not, I'm sure it will be ready for 13.

Thanks, I'm not a gnome user so I've been curious. Well, while gnome2 is still stable, unless the gnome people are extremely incompetent or the KDE people are gods I really think you gnome people are over reacting. I was no long time user of kde3 but I think kde4 has replicated 100% of the functionality and behavior of kde3 (and am curious if there are any objections to this). In the mean time, get these fixes to the MATE devs some how. I call your list of differences fixes because of the project goals of MATE. Also, see here if that previous link didn't make their intentions clear. I really think they're trying, you all would just give them a chance.

This is why I've switched to Mint and will not look back until the Mint team gets on the idiot UI bandwagon.

This time is now: Linux Mint 12 comes with Gnome 3

Hahahaha, poor guy. I bet he'll keep trying to use Gnome because even though Gnome always hurts him he believes that deep inside Gnome still loves him.
Those irritated with Gnome should try a tiling WM, they're awesome.

This is why I've switched to Mint and will not look back until the Mint team gets on the idiot UI bandwagon.

This time is now: Linux Mint 12 comes with Gnome 3

Gnome 3 has nasty visual artifacts on Ubuntu 11.10 with my notebook's ATI chip.

I appreciate all Shuttleworth has done for the Linux community, but he's really got to take quality more seriously if he wants to win me back to Ubuntu.

Linux Mint seems to work great with Gnome3 and their own Shell extensions. They used it mostly to restore the missing bits that Gnome3 lost. I found it very stable am quite pleased with it. Its no KDE in terms of richness of functionality and flexibility, but its pretty sweet.

I'm starting to like this LinuxMint distro more and more, especially for casual use.

Katya is my wife. I don't think I'm allowed to upgrade to Lisa.

There's an effort to make Mint 12 look more like the previous iterations but it's a lot of work. Get classic Mint desktop in Gnome shell

It's noted on the release page as well so I don't understand searching for hours to fix that:
http://linuxmint.com/rel_katya.php#info - Overlay Scrollbars

The only question I have. If they anticipated people having issues with it, why did they default it instead of making a bluntly obvious setting in the configuration for it?

They will stop doing that for Mint 12.

It's somewhere in their policy for Mint 12 that they're simply going to disallow and adblock search engines that don't pay them: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851
"Search engines who do not share the income generated by our users, are removed from Linux Mint and might get their ads blocked."

I don't know what to say to that, but I sure as hell won't be using their blackmail software.

The big promise of Linux Mint lies in the upcoming release 12. They are trying fix what the Gnome developers fucked up so royally and no one else has been able to do: fix Gnome3. They have a set of extensions that, at least judging from a static desktop screenshot, look like they will actually make Gnome3 usable like Gnome2. The release candidate due tomorrow should tell the story for these MSGE (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions).

The big promise of Linux Mint lies in the upcoming release 12. They are trying fix what the Gnome developers fucked up so royally and no one else has been able to do: fix Gnome3. They have a set of extensions that, at least judging from a static desktop screenshot, look like they will actually make Gnome3 usable like Gnome2. The release candidate due tomorrow should tell the story for these MSGE (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions).

None of those UIs were anything like as big a change from their predecessors, compared to Win8 / Unity / Gnome Shell and iOS.

I have never had a big adverse reaction to UIs since Windows 3.0 and early KDE, but with the advent of Unity and Gnome 3, I'm making the jump from Ubuntu to Linux Mint 12, because Mint is making Gnome 3 look sufficiently like Gnome 2 (via some of its own extensions) and also will enable MATE (a fork of GNOME 2, though it's a little too recent to be usable yet.) See http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/243403/now_with_gnome_3_linux_mint_12_will_meet_users_halfway.html

I don't think I'm alone either - Linux Mint had a 40% increase in popularity in one month after Ubuntu went Unity: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851 (includes overview of the Linux Mint 12 plans for Gnome 3 and MATE).

It's undeniably getting there. It will take time, but it's getting there. Take a gander at what Linux Mint did with Gnome3 using extensions. Sure looks like it's gonna work as good as Gome2 to me. Never thought I would be saying this as early as this. I didn't have high expectations at all.

It's undeniably getting there. It will take time, but it's getting there. Take a gander at what Linux Mint did with Gnome3 using extensions. Sure looks like it's gonna work as good as Gome2 to me. Never thought I would be saying this as early as this. I didn't have high expectations at all.