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If they stripped out all the cruft kept for compatibility with ancient software; and changed the policy of entangling non-essential components deep in the system, that could make a solid OS. Something like OSX. Jobs has never been afraid of pulling the rug out as far as backward compatibility goes, which causes short term pain and a lot of bitching, but a much better system in the end.

Some people have manged to do a lot of this independently; eg LitePC, and several projects at MSFN like nLite.

98Lite? http://www.litepc.com/

Brilliant! Allow home-grown tagging for an anchor,
use the URI as the anchor text, but still append
a stupid [foo.com]. Brilliant!

Already done.

I recommend using XPlite/2000lite/98lite to keep a Windows installation lean enough to run on old hardware. These started out as a hack to remove IE from Win98, but have evolved into general-purpose tools for deactivating the parts of Windows you don't need/want. I use them to run Windows on machines over 8 years old.

Just as secure, and you can have more functionality (e.g. sound!).

Of course, better yet, you can use Linux. I've got a 32MB laptop that runs Debian (with XFCE). A bit slow, but I can actually surf the web and so forth, and even play a game or two. And do it with actual security.

They must hate me too then, as I use Netscape Communicator as my primary browser at work. I refuse to use the "other" browser that is installed. Netscape Communicator has always run very well on every PC I've used it on. It was common for me to surf with over 100 browser windows open on a Pentium Pro with 32 megs of RAM. Of course that may be a testament of the way Windows NT 4 handles RAM too...

I seriously hope open source has something better up their sleeves for those of us who dont feel web browsing requires 1 Ghz+ and 512 MB ram.

Obviously, that's quite an exaggeration there. Opera 6 runs great on old Pentiums, and some open source browsers can run very well on an early Pentium II. Just remove IE with LitePC to really speed things up.

first off regarding some comments about cracking os x on intel, even if you could do it, why? would you feel comfortable operating a business on white boxen running a cracked version of os x? would your company feel confident that their core business apps are running on a pirated/hackz/warez version of os x in which only you, the company geek, can fix it? i think not. in the end, companies have to be responsible to themselves and the clients that they serve by running legit software. doesn't mean you can't try to do it at home for personal reasons, but for the most part this isn't going to fly in the corporate world... and before any linux-zealots flame about what business would need os x for their core business, think printing, audio, video, and other media venues.

proprietary os's are the rule, not the exception, especially in businesses, government, and other major infrastructure environments... military, banking, energy companies, research facilities, and schools are all running windows, solaris, aix, irix, as400,[fill in the blank for you favorite proprietary *nix-like os] along side linux and *bsd. os x is no different, and being proprietary doesn't weaken an os, it actually helps shorten it's dev cycle and patch cycles, such that os x has been able to release a major version almost every 12-18 months. sun is also able to make that claim from 2.4-10 for the last 7 years. windows on the other hand has a much longer cycle for dev and patches because of all the 3rd party hardware it tries to support.

TCO is also important, and apple, sun, sgi, ibm equipment in general(as well as other "proprietary" hardware) have better total cost of ownership than commodity hardware. plenty of graphic shops have ancient beige macs still running old software simply because it still works and does it's job well. conversely, there still alot of win95/98 boxes still running cause it still does it's job well... i've been thinking about whipping together some lite98 boxen running off a flash disk to run some utilites just cause it's cheaper and just as efficient(if not more so) than a newer machine running xp...

It's the only way to be safe and secure. Disallow its execution altogether, or better yet, remove it with LitePC.

IE can be completely removed from Win2k and XP. So can WMP, Scripting Host, Outlook Express, Windows Address Book, and all the other nasties:

http://www.litepc.com/xplite.html

A teenage kid figured out how to do all this - Bill Gates testified it couldn't be done without breaking Windows. What actually happens is, it FIXES Windows. Just LOOK at the list of stuff you can choose to uninstall.

I'm running Win2k with NO Service Packs, and my system has been stripped of nearly every MSFT component. A fresh install is only about 220 MB and it's extremely fast and secure. I run no anti-virus software, yet I've never had a virus, worm, spyware, adware, and have not seen a BSOD in at least 2 years. The memory footprint is tiny without all those extra MSFT components being loaded, and without all the programs I'd normally need to protect myself from those MSFT components.

Ever since IE4 MSFT has been purposely breaking things...breaking html, breaking Windows, breaking laws, breaking compatibility with its own file formats. They do not fear the government because they have given the government unlimited power....a backdoor into hundreds of millions of computers. Look it up, it's spelled out in the Anti-trust settlement.

WindowsXP, IE7, Longhorn, the Service Packs...it's all sewage. If you read the EULA for the Service Packs you will never install them. Windows Update? I don't have it and don't need it, since 99% of what it offers are patches for the insecure components I already removed.

Win2k is a pretty good OS when you just use it to access the hardware and launch other programs. There's a ton of great Windows software out there, much of it freeware and open source. All we need is a stable, secure Windows OS...and Win2k is that, once you clean up the cesspool of bundled "features".

A lot of solutions I'm sure will be posted, but the one that I've found that works BEST so far is XPlite/2000lite (the reincarnation of 98lite from back in the day). A lot of the components that you don't need that Windows won't let you uninstall can be removed with it. URL: http://www.litepc.com/xplite.html.

I hate to slashdot a good tool and thus make it unavailable... but if you are win9x http://litepc.com/ieradicator.html/

I would really like to know this, please post instructions ! :)

You have to delibrately uninstall IE using a third-party uninstallation tool like 98lite from LitePC Technologies.

In other words, you can't install Netscape on a delibrately hacked version of Windows 98. Wow, go figure.

I would really like to know this, please post instructions ! :)

You have to delibrately uninstall IE using a third-party uninstallation tool like 98lite from LitePC Technologies.

In other words, you can't install Netscape on a delibrately hacked version of Windows 98. Wow, go figure.

This guy's using 98lite, a tool to strip components from Win98, including IE.

http://www.litepc.com/

Buying it!

http://www.litepc.com/

XP Lite and similar software for other versions of Windows is available from http://www.litepc.com/

Goat

Actually, Windows will work without IE. 98lite is proof of this. It's IE's shared files that programs need.

... most users do not need or want the feature bloat present in normal versions of Windows.

Sounds like you're looking for XP Lite. I've bought and used a copy; it's good for selectively removing feature-bloat. I trimmed some fat and incrementally increased responsiveness on a laptop XP installation, and later on a VMWare install.

Here?

Also, some chaps claim they can remove IE completely.

IE and Windows are NOT the same. Functionality of IE is heavily integrated into the OS, and the two use many of the same libraries, but you don't need IE to use Windows.

http://www.litepc.com/xplite.html

My concern is M$ might put out an advisory that goes to the effect that Firefox does no good to the Windows environment, and that a user is well advised to avoid it all together.

Our PHBs will ignorantly comply I know.

Talk about spewing FUD. Any update can be manually downloaded in any browser. I get along quite fine on Windows without IE. LitePC.com is the answer to getting rid of IE for good. I have never needed IE and never will.

Just remove Internet Explorer and the AIM Today crap won't even function. Or even better still, use the older, better versions of AIM (4.3 and under) that don't include all that bloatware.

That's funny. I remember people saying everyone will need IE. Thankfully, I never have needed IE and never will. If I decide to "upgrade" to a newer version of Windows, like 98, I have http://litepc.com/ handy for when / if that day ever comes.

As long as I can remove IE7 with http://litepc.com/, then Longhorn might be useable. By the time it comes out, however, I think I will have long abandoned Windows. Eye candy doesn't mean anything to me. Efficiency, stability, and security do.

There's a product called XPLite which allows you to remove Windows Media Player, IE, and virtually any other component of XP without causing severe harm to the system. You can seriously remove ANY component: COM+, Active Directory, Indexing Service, DirectX, or even remove ALL of XP's networking services. Cool stuff.

They've also got versions for win2k, ME (shudders), and 98. You can pull off a working 98SE installation in 41mb.

I'm in no way affiliated with these guys. they just make a cool product that's very applicable to this topic

http://litepc.com/ allows you to remove IE from Windows. Ideally these tests would be performed on Windows 98lite and then add a standalone version of IE so that you don't have the dll's preloaded at boot time. IE, is after all, one of the main reasons why Windows boots so slowly. Remove it if you don't believe me and find out how much your system improves.

Go to Litepc.com. You can get 98lite or 2000/XPlite which will make Internet Explorer an uninstallable component in the add/remove programs section.

There are tools for removing Internet Explorer. IE is removed, system components that call it are adjusted, some icons disappear from the file browser, Windows File Protection is properly updated for the new no-IE state, and you have a system free of the IE nightmare.

IEradicator is a tiny script that uses the Windows setup engine to surgically remove Internet Explorer versions 3 through 6.0 from Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, Windows Millennium and Windows 2000(sr1).

Of course, you install Firefox and Thunderbird.

LitePC is too flexible for the typical home user, though. It's used mostly for configuring business desktops and embedded systems. Basically, it lets you turn off, selectively, most of what's in XP but not XP Embedded. They really need a one-step CD product that cleans out adware, spyware, and viruses, removes Internet Explorer, and installs Firefox and Thunderbird.

There really aren't that many important web sites left that work only with IE. And you can usually find a competitor that sells the same thing. I haven't run IE in a year or so now.

Gates says everybody who uses FireFox has IE installed too, so he's not worried.

Gates is wrong. At home I have Win98SE (why no, I am not a masochist) reinstalled using 98Lite Preview http://www.litepc.com/preview.html. No IE at all. No OE at all. Just Firefox and Thunderbird.

It works.

I use XP Pro at work, with no admin access. Regrettably, that just works too. I suspect that the latter will be more easily hacked than the former, but as the former is mine, and the latter is pwned by my employer's IT support Morlocks I don't care!

I doubt whether the home machine is too vulnerable either on those occasions when I'm using it with Mandrake instead.

No, Gates should be more worried by the likes of Knoppix. When I saw Knoppix for the first time, I saw the writing on the wall for Windows.

You're doomed, Bill. You can't patent imagination and creativity.

By the way, if he ever checks out, look out for a note saying "The ascension of the ordinary man"...

If you must stick with Windows get xplite and remove them completely. You can still boot.

http://www.litepc.com/xplite.html

XPLite to remove the darn thing !

A few years ago I bought up some of those Virgin WebPlayers and I-Openers from eBay and other places, and proceeded to hack into them with the instructions provided.

The WebPlayer I'm using in the living room has Windows 95 on it reduced down using LitePC, and has Opera running as a web client. Also installed is Identafone, a piece of software that will display caller-id information on the screen. Add a cheap USB network adapter, plug in the phone line to the modem, and fire up the web browser to bring up a variant of the Block-random script provided by the Gallery distro, and you have a Photo Frame/Caller-ID box that has a small footprint and has no moving parts (no fan or hard drive).

I've also done the same thing with the I-Openers, installing a small 10-Gig laptop drive or so using a custom IMOD2 Kit. They both run very well and you end up with a much more configurable picture frame than a store-bought one for around a third of the cost. Now, I wish I could do something with some type of Linux distro on these guys, and I'm sure that it's possible, but I just haven't had the time after doing these. Ideas anyone? Would a Linux distro run on these boxes and still have enough memory to run a GUI to display photos?

Oh, and does anyone know how I can stop IE loading? At least that should kill some of the problems.

I asked the same question, and apparently now there is xplite

Merry Christmas!

'Nuff said.

My name is Jo, and I've been using http://www.litepc.com/preview.htmlwindows without IE for 6 months now....

A few years ago I bought up some of those Virgin WebPlayers and I-Openers from eBay and other places, and proceeded to hack into them with the instructions provided.

The WebPlayer I'm using in the living room has Windows 95 on it reduced down using LitePC, and has Opera running as a web client. Also installed is Identafone, a piece of software that will display caller-id information on the screen. Add a cheap USB network adapter, plug in the phone line to the modem, and fire up the web browser to bring up a variant of the Block-random script provided by the Gallery distro, and you have a Photo Frame/Caller-ID box that has a small footprint and has no moving parts (no fan or hard drive).

I've also done the same thing with the I-Openers, installing a small 10-Gig laptop drive or so using a custom IMOD2 Kit. They both run very well and you end up with a much more configurable picture frame than a store-bought one for around a third of the cost.

Now, I wish I could do something with some type of Linux distro on these guys, and I'm sure that it's possible, but I just haven't had the time after doing these. Ideas anyone? Would a Linux distro run on these boxes and still have enough memory to run a GUI to display photos?

It can be done. There's a $39.95 commercial product to remove Internet Explorer and much other stuff you don't want running.

For $39.95, you can buy XP Lite, a commercial product which uninstalls Internet Explorer and lots of other Microsoft crap you don't need or want. Once they can't run IE, life becomes far simpler.

...then carefully remove as much Microsoft software from your machine as possible.

Start with MSIE and MS Outlook, then MS-Office (replace them with FireFox, ThunderBird and OpenOffice, respectively). Really dig in and make sure every trace of them has been removed, don't stop at believing what the MS uninstaller tells you about MS Outlook.

Don't offer any shares, even to the LAN (get people to dump stuff elsewhere on the LAN and you pick it up from there), connect to the minimum number of shares (zero if possible) and for the shortest reasonable time.

Run a good firewall.

Pray a lot.

One more option: if you have a modern Linux box around, throw LogicWave at WINE on that and see how far it gets. If it doesn't work outright, maybe you can hack up an interface to the actual analyser in WINE. That'd be a lot of effort for one workstation, but if you have 20 or so it might be worthwhile.

but isn't iexplore.exe required for the system to boot properly?

Disclaimer: I don't work for LitePC, and I also use Mandrake Linux. (phew, I think I covered my geek cred there...)

LitePC is a good place to start. IE and OE can be removed at no cost on previous versions of Windows, but you may have to register to get rid of them on XP. In addition to IERadicator, there is also Revenge of Mozilla out there, but I have not tried it personally. I know someone online who has, however. Back up anything in "My Documents" first.

If IE should never be used on production servers, why is IE so heavily integrated into the shell environment in which the server runs?

BTW, to say that the integration of IE in Windows is somehow equivalent to the integration of Konquerer in KDE is rather ridiculous.

It is trivial to entirely replace one browser with another on a GNU/Linux system. Eradicating all traces of IE on MS Windows machines is nowhere near as simple.

Watch the difference when you remove IE with http://litepc.com/. It's like night and day. The problem is that IE preloads its dlls as you boot into Windows. Yes, you can thank IE for slowing down boot times. If you truly want to figure IE's footprint, it's a whole lot more complicated than just checking what shows in Taskmgr.exe....

It is possible to remove Internet Explorer, using third party tools, like XPLite for windows xp:
http://www.litepc.com/xplite.html
I personally haven't removed IE, but i've used it to clean out other cruft thats not needed, to slim up the win xp install on my gf's computer.

Many vulnerabilities in Windows aren't so much in Windows itself, but in IE (or Outlook, or ...). Some of those flaws can be avoided by not using IE, but some more may be avoided if you have IE not installed at all.

By default Windows doesn't allow IE to be uninstalled, and MS once claimed it would render Windows unusable. Tools found on above website prove otherwise. You can also use these to remove other unneeded Windows components.

Fully removing IE may have some drawbacks, but usuallly you can do fine without. If you have doubts, just try the preview version on a couple of boxes. There's a free utility for just removing IE from Windows 98 systems.

For best results, consider removing Windows as well...