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The N900 is about to be launched. Come on over to http://www.maemo.org/
You will be welcome, and no one will tell you what you can, or cannot do.

I'm interested in knowing more about this. Do N900 applications need to be ported or can we just grab stuff from, say, Ubuntu and have it work on the N900? I understand that I'll probably have to recompile it, but do I need to modify the source code to get it to work?

The reason I ask is, of course, because applications are key to a computer like the N900 or the iPhone surviving and thriving; even Apple says "There's an App for that." If the N900 can take advantage of the multitude of FOSS already out there for Linux, that would slingshot its power out beyond anything the iPhone can provide.

On a semi-related topic: Is the N900 shipping yet? I keep hearing stories about how it will be Real Soon Now. I ordered mine on Amazon for the reduced price of $582, but it's now on sale for $550 or so. Should I cancel my $582 order and re-preorder it at $550? I even hear rumours of a $50 rebate on top of the $550, making the effective price $500 or so. Anyone able to comment on this?

The N900 is about to be launched. Come on over to http://www.maemo.org/

You will be welcome, and no one will tell you what you can, or cannot do.

Cheers!

Arguably, bundling turn-by-turn navigation software in Android is similar bundling IE in Windows (enter the MS anti-trust suits) but it's a tough argument to make when the whole lot is open-source.

Could you please show me where the code (and subsequent api call documentation) to recreate turn-by-turn navigation on a non-android platform are publicly available/accessible? I'd love to port this to maemo, but you'll find that Android the OS is open-source, but many of the apps that make it valuable are still closed and controlled by Google. I don't necessarily have a problem with this, but I think many people (wrongly) assume that just because Android is open-source they can tinker with not only the core OS, but all of the applications as well. The Android Market is NOT like a traditional linux repository where you "install" your apps from.

``I know there's OpenGL ES, and there's full-fledged OpenGL. Is there a practical common subset?''

Depends on which versions you're talking about. As this maemo.org page about OpenGL ES nicely illustrates, there is some overlap, but nothing that works across all four of OpenGL 1.x, OpenGL 2.x, OpenGL ES 1.x and OpenGL ES 2.x.

The differences are in the supported shader models and in the support of fixed-point arithmetic.

OpenGL 1.x has floating point arithmetic and fixed shaders.
OpenGL ES 1.x is sort of an extended subset of OpenGL 1.x, removing features and adding fixed-point arithmetic.

OpenGL 2.x supports everything OpenGL 1.x supports, but adds programmable shaders.
OpenGL ES 2.x is like OpenGL 2.x, except fixed shaders are not supported, and fixed-point arithmetic has been added.

This means that programmable shaders are not in OpenGL 1.x and OpenGL ES 1.x, and fixed shaders are not in OpenGL 2.x. So, no matter which kind of shader you use, there is some flavor of OpenGL that doesn't support it.

Also, note that the non-ES versions of OpenGL don't support fixed-point arithmetic. So if you want full compatibility, you will have to use floating-point arithmetic. That would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that many devices that support OpenGL ES (1.x or 2.x) only support fixed-point arithmetic.

So, basically: no, there is no common subset of all the OpenGL flavors that you can program in and have your program be compatible with all implementations.

http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/10/

One of the architecture mistakes in the Google browser was *not* using Qt.

The default OS is is shipped with is quite ironicaly modified Ubuntu 9.10 :)
They just grabbed some alpha/beta and customized it for the device.

Other than the default distro, you can run Mer, Android and WinCE.
The os can be booted from the internal flash (some iNand) or from the SD card and the device is said to be basicaly unbrickable.

And regarding Maemo, for something free and open, it has a lot of closed source software : http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages and http://blog.1407.org/2009/09/01/nokias-free-software-bullshit-and-insults-in-maemo/

Just a quick note: closed source drivers are a problem, because if the driver provider goes under, device owners are left out in the cold, without ability to keep their devices up to date. We'll see what direction Nokia goes with those. On the other hand, closed source "normal" software, is completely ok by me. I mean, what kind of open system would it be if it were closed to non-open source software? Not very open, that's for sure. If you don't like the closed source app, just install an open source alternative.

Well, no, there is a lot of plateform running on OpenMoko phones ( Neo Freerunner ). To name a few, Hackable:1 , QTMoko, SHR, or debian, openwrt. And while most of them are quite new, QTMoko is using the qtopia project, the product of trolltech before nokia decided to let the community take care of it ( it was also called qt extended ). And SHR was ported on htc phones, debian was ported on PalmPre. And regarding Maemo, for something free and open, it has a lot of closed source software : http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages and http://blog.1407.org/2009/09/01/nokias-free-software-bullshit-and-insults-in-maemo/

http://maemo.org/

http://maemo.gitorious.org/

http://bugs.maemo.org/

http://maemo.org/

http://maemo.gitorious.org/

http://bugs.maemo.org/

Sadly, I think it's November for everywhere.

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=355093&postcount=423

Let's correct my support claim a small bit: There is actually good news for the n8x0, it's called Mer (http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer)

On their official wiki homepage one of the main articles is Getting Root Access.

It only provides a warning that you may damage your device and does not mention breaking a warranty, EULA, TOS, etc...

On their official wiki homepage one of the main articles is Getting Root Access.

It only provides a warning that you may damage your device and does not mention breaking a warranty, EULA, TOS, etc...

What about Maemo?

Based on Debian, access to root via a terminal, and soon to be available on what looks to be a rather nice smartphone.

If I want an app through http://maemo.org/ for my soon to be N900 and some one doesn't like it, what then? See OSS and Linux doesn't have this protection that Microsoft and Apple offer.

Funny guy. I guess I'll be stuck with this "problem", too, since I plan to get a N900 this year (hope there's no delay in it coming out or I won't be able to charge it to corporate in time for their mid-November deadline).

I was wondering, though: are there enough 3rd party apps for the N900? (After all, there'd be no need for any kill switch if there aren't even any apps!) I know Maemo is Linux-based, and I should be able to compile my own OpenOffice.org suite on it, but I'm afraid of any idiosyncrasies in the system that would render most apps incompatible, like "Maemo uses NokiaFS which has no symlinks or nested directories" or something. I'm still thinking of my Zaurus SL-5500 which had approximately 2 third-party apps (3 if you install Opie) and which is now gathering dust.

Hopefully N900 users would benefit from a collection of apps built up for the N770, N800 and N810 (are they compatible? Still smarting from the PalmOS 5 switchover). If there are enough apps to warrant a kill switch, we can always do it by the honour system, sort of like the Honour System email virus: "Hi! This virus works on the honour system. Please delete a few essential files on your computer and reformat your own hard drive, then send this email to a few of your friends."

Two reasons. First, the vast majority of users don't *want* to deal with this - they just want their (computer|phone|car|whatever) to work. In this case, respecting their wishes involves making it so they don't have to see this. Second, computer users (and smartphones are computers, just small ones that happen to use ARM chips) are, by and large, idiots when it comes to computers. They're ignorant, but they don't even WANT to learn. Leaving something with the capability to spread malware or launch a DoS attack at their discretion is a bad idea.

Mind you, I think the OP's idea *COULD* work, if there were some way to ensure that the user has at least some idea what they're doing (basically, a reverse-Turing-test: is the human smart enough to interact with the computer?) An example of this is the Red Pill mode in Maemo (a Smartphone/PDA Linux distro). It's published how to enter it, but the user has to look it up, then do some things that a normal user would probably never attempt. In return, you get a lot of safety features (which occasionally don't do what you wnat them to do) disabled. http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode

If I want an app through http://maemo.org/ for my soon to be N900 and some one doesn't like it, what then? See OSS and Linux doesn't have this protection that Microsoft and Apple offer.

Well... see http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages . not nearly all of n900 userland is opensource :-(. Nokia seems to make packages closed by default, and only opensources when they see benefit _for them_...

Maemo is not another platform. It's a lightweight Debian.

Yeah.

Is there any chance of having the base install for the n900 be completely FOSS?

Sure, see maemo. I doubt you'll have complete to access the phone-part of the n900 though, the telcoms being rather cautions on what they allow on their networks.

The n810 is a nice little open pda, but as it isn't a phone I don't use it that much. If the n900 is at least half-decent, it will replace my nokia for sure. Bubye S60!

Look at the N900 feature list - "Phone" is fourth down.

Maemo may power Nokia's high-end devices, but this is no reason to sound the death knell for Symbian. With regard to Nokia, they make a lot of phones that are not the N900, and do not cost 500 euro. There are also dozens of other companies supporting the Symbian Foundation, including many other manufacturers like Samsung and Sony Ericsson.

Symbian^4 will use Qt as its UI layer, and Maemo is moving into a similar direction (that's why Nokia bought Trolltech!) - targeting both platforms should be quite simple.

I'm an avid fan of Nokia and Symbian phones from Philippines, and I'd like to share my interest in exploring new features in mobile technology particularly this new device and its Maemo platform for mobile communicators.

I'd like to witness how it performs well as a device, mobile communicator, and internet tablet, and be able to know what lies behind this new mobile OS.

I also want to know how worthy to have this device over the other existing and upcoming competitors and rivals in its level, and chat and meet people with the same interest.

I hope we can share each and everyone's knowledge on this stuff among all of electronic gadgets we've had. http://www.Nokia-N900.org is nice place to hangout.

If you're considering getting one of these (and I certainly am), why not go to the N900 mini-site and submit your email address to get an alert when the phone goes on general sale. If nothing else it will show Nokia that there is legitimate, widespread interest in this phone and hopefully help them keep their resolve against the evil telcos!

N900 site is here: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ (scroll all the way to the bottom for the form that lets you submit your email addy).

Also, to whet your appetite of what's likely to come, check out this forum post over on the maemo boards: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=24272

The fourth iteration (Maemo Fremantle) has a UI built on Hildon/GTK+; the fifth (Maemo Harmattan), a UI built on Qt. I've read 4Q 2010 or 1Q 2011, so app developers have to consider whether or not to use the community-supported Qt API on the existing device, which will become "the" OS in 2011, or build something on GTK+, Maemo/Nokia-supported now, which will become community-supported in Harmattan.

Instead of making shit up, you can probably help this guy. And before you start bullshitting again, yes, you have a root access.

Sure, but at least Duke Nukem 3D is already available: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/duke3d/

Correction:

Additional features

* 3D Accelerometer
* Ambient Light Sensor
* Nokia Maps
* Ovi Files
* Ovi Share
* Proximity Sensor

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31005

Also I am looking forward to see what the SDK looks like, never worked with Maemo before.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide

Nokia also hosts VM images with the development environment already setup. http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php

Source is available (already, albeit in beta form) from http://maemo.org/development/sources/. Includes deb packages and direct SVN access.

Maemo 5 aka Freemantle: http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/

Official Nokia Site: http://maemo.nokia.com/

Developer's Guide: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide

Forums: http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=40

Maemo 5 aka Freemantle: http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/

Official Nokia Site: http://maemo.nokia.com/

Developer's Guide: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide

Forums: http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=40

http://dvorak.mwbrooks.com/unix.html#xmod

http://austinche.name/maemo/xmodmap.dvorak

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ukeyboard/

Happy to help.

Given this looks like a major upgrade from the existing Nokia tablets, this link might fill in the gap

Look at the N900 feature list - "Phone" is fourth down.

Maemo may power Nokia's high-end devices, but this is no reason to sound the death knell for Symbian. With regard to Nokia, they make a lot of phones that are not the N900, and do not cost 500 euro. There are also dozens of other companies supporting the Symbian Foundation, including many other manufacturers like Samsung and Sony Ericsson.

Symbian^4 will use Qt as its UI layer, and Maemo is moving into a similar direction (that's why Nokia bought Trolltech!) - targeting both platforms should be quite simple.

Sure, it runs just fine, but you have to go through hoops to run any such code on the Pre. Maemo allows any user to run native applications in whatever language, and installation is easy. See this for an example. If you have to wrestle with the platform in any way to run an app like pidgin, then said platform isn't a "normal Linux system" to any extent that would be considered exciting.

Since this looks like an upgrade of the existing N800/810 tablets to include GSM phone capability, YES you can get shell access, SSH to/from other boxes, etc.

Check this link for the "official" catalog of Maemo apps, most/all of which I'd assume will work on this new unit, and this one for additional projects in various stages of development.

Since this looks like an upgrade of the existing N800/810 tablets to include GSM phone capability, YES you can get shell access, SSH to/from other boxes, etc.

Check this link for the "official" catalog of Maemo apps, most/all of which I'd assume will work on this new unit, and this one for additional projects in various stages of development.

It's in the garage.

If it works in Diablo, and on N770s, n800s and n810s, the n900 has got you covered. The n900 may be a phone, but with its OMAP processor and MID heritage, the nerd angle is already covered.

The VMware appliance is a thingy that you run on your PC (and, yes, it is a Linux client). You can develop and simulate code that will run on the N8XX. A cross compiler which is part of the development environment produces code for the ARM.

For more info: http://maemo.org/development/

I think I need to shake down Nokia for providing them with all these free advertisements.

Sorry, I guess I should have provided a link: http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode

WARNING: Red Pill is not intended for use by users, power-users, nor the vast majority of developers. Red Pill mode is very likely to break your tablet and should not be used unless you know exactly what you are doing.

As well as Android as someone else mentioned, there is also Maemo http://maemo.org/ which is being driven by Nokia. They are due to announce a new smartphone in the next couple of weeks which looks exciting.

Mer is a community led distribution of the Maemo code http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer

As well as Android as someone else mentioned, there is also Maemo http://maemo.org/ which is being driven by Nokia. They are due to announce a new smartphone in the next couple of weeks which looks exciting.

Mer is a community led distribution of the Maemo code http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer

Yes, the N810 is a horrible example of a good media player. I recently more or less gave on on trying to get mine to play media files straight as far too often it would have frame rates best quantified in seconds per frame instead of frames per second. I now run videos through tablet-encode first, which, even on its highest quality setting, sets the resolution of its output to 400x240 (for the N810's 800x480 screen) -- which actually ends up looking fine, but maybe I am just not that picky about video quality.

Given how underpowered the N810 is as a media player -- especially since that is apparently partly due to some bad design decisions on some on the internal interconnects -- and that it is still able to play YouTube videos, any new device using more recent ARM chips that made any attempt to play videos should have no trouble displaying Flash videos full screen.

maybe because people will continue buying WinMobile handsets for the same reason they continue to buy Windows PCs?

Happily stopped purchasing Windows products over a year and a half ago, should have done it sooner. I am finding that in every category, even Graphics editing, Movie playing and mail / office apps, my FREEDOM with #Linux is superior than the limitations forced on me via vendor-lockin.

Remember, buy Linux PCs from a Vendor like ZaReason that builds the PC, laptop, netbook, multi-media machine from the ground up with Linux in mind, thus no issues with anything, their Linux machines just work right out of the box.

When my friends could no longer reformat their PCs hard drive + reinstall their purchased Microsoft OS in order to clean out bloat and remove viruses, adware, etc, I just shook my head and reminded them why Microsoft lost my over 20+ years of TRUST. Never mind that it does not help as the first FORCED update/upgrade puts most, if not all, of the bloat back on your PC. Does Microsoft even sell a CD or DVD with the purchase of either Vista or Windows 7, as I would never purchase an operating system without one. Depend on the internet connection always being up and my bandwidth un-capped, I do not think so.

I often have to remind them more than a few times, before they get frustrated enough with Microsoft to find a guaranteed solution that is 100% in their control and will work. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your view point, Microsoft gives me plenty of opportunities to remind my friends. Especially since Vista was released. Heck every FORCED auto update / upgrade is one more opportunity for Microsoft to shine, NOT.

No tethering issues with an open Linux mobile handset. Any many more software applications options, especially games.

As for Mobile handsets, stick with a Linux based OS, like Maemo.org, yes I know Android is Linux based, but I have not checked to see if I can install it on my Nokia N800. I have no need to purchase a handset just to run another OS, when Maemo does everything I need it to do. At least with a fully functioning Linux based handheld their are NO tethering issues or any bogus reasons for you not to be able to use the software of your choice. Anyone with a proprietary OS from one of the cellular providers knows what a pain in the butt that is. And for one reason ONLY: vendor lock-in!

No text messaging caps, I would think this would be huge for every family with teenagers. No additional fees and all they can eat text messaging. Besides text messaging should be free if you understand the engineering behind how communications with the towers works. Why chance that you will be raped for an additional inflated FEE.

As more and more people get frustrated with limitations to their handhelds proprietary software operating system, options like Android and Maemo will look much more promising.

While I still use MacIntosh computers and Microsoft computers for some work related contracts, hey I have over 20+ years of experience that comes in handy. At home it is Linux or nothing. I just got tired of the crap. I want my computer to just work, no hassles, just work. I upgrade when I choose to upgrade ONLY. And that is after others have tried and posted the problems with the new update or upgrade. I do not have time for the interruptions to my life that auto update and auto upgrade cause. I have NEVER been hit with a Virus because I browse safely without Java, JavaScript and/or Action X automatically enabled by default. I recommend using a sandboxed PC when you turn on features that can introduce cross scripting issues via websites. It works. Oh yes, I never use IE for anything but testing my own development. If you use Internet Explorer, designed open by default without the a

There are excellent reviews of the device at UMPC Portal here http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/smart-devices-q7-7-pad-for-189, and at Mobileread forums here http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48934. You can find one online for under $200. It comes with a version of Ubuntu Linux, FBReader and Evince are in the standard install. The Mer Project over at Maemo.org is currently porting Maemo to the device, they have a thread here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27433, discussing ports for the Smart Q5 and Q7.

I think the RX-51, aka "N900" is due "second half of 2009". The OS for it will not be backwards compatible with the n800

For OS developments regarding n8*0, check out the community project "MER" instead: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint

"Windows CE also has a "low memory footprint and a good collection of apps,"

Native Linux can be stripped down to be really low on resources, and has multiple times the apps WinCE can count on. Problem solved.

"For instance, Android screen icons that fit on smartphone screens (usually 4-inches and under) are oversized on a smartbook's 8- or 9-inch screen, he said."

This is of course bullshit told to hide something else, or do we really believe multigazillion dollar companies choose their platform according to icons sizes?
Anyway, native Linux already counts on lots of small footprint and themable (ie customizable sizes) interfaces. See some projects at maemo.org for an example of native Linux apps running on ARM hardware. Problem solved.

"Also, all video and graphics rendering in Android is done today by the operating system's Java code, a technique he says is too slow for HD video." "There's no hardware acceleration. It's all software," Rayfield said.

Native linux offers video acceleration. Problem solved.

"The world soundly rejected the first netbooks that came out with Linux," he said. "Printers didn't work, and devices didn't get recognized. The whole thing was a mess."

Well, I have sold a good number of Linux netbooks to a number of non technical people, and all of them asked to install XP after some months citing various difficulties, therefore I can confirm this to be at least in part true. Eventually it turned out all those Linux netbooks recognized their devices, printers, USB stuff and whatnot, but the amount of work required for whatever task the user was doing was "bigger" than on XP, where bigger meant push 4 buttons instead of 3 or open a shell and fire a couple commands instead of pushing a button.
It's not about being stabler or whatnot: Linux is good for technical people who enjoy chatting with the shell, while Windows users are lazy people who want to minimize the work on the computer to spend their time on other stuff. From this POV Linux wasn't, isn't and will never become a good operating system for the masses without losing its identity by becoming too Windows like.
For the rest of us, and back to the topic, Native Linux *can* be set up in order to recognize a plethora of peripherals.

The conclusion? All but one, not even a whole one, of these problems would simply not exist if Java wasn't used. Many of us raised some warnings about that, but Java dev^H^H^Hfanboys who love their language because it's the only one they know dismissed the argument. Thankyou very much.

For those who still didn't wet their toes with Java, stay well away of that crap.

"He acknowledged two concerns for smartbooks are the lack of native support for Adobe Flash on ARM and the fragmentation of Linux application environments. However, he said solutions to both issues are in the works." Emphasis in bold mine.

The notion of "fragmentation" being a negative attribute of open source software is idiotic. What you call fragmentation, I call freedom. If somebody doesn't like the window manager on their computer, they can change it to one they do like. Or, in the worst case, they can make their own. You simply can't do that (and many other things) effectively or efficiently on a proprietary system with One Blessed User Interface.

You can't have an open source ecosystem that isn't "fragmented" in the first place, so fighting it is pointless. Every person is going to have a different idea of how a particular line of code should be written, let alone how an entire project should be structured. They are going to arrive at different solutions and are going to prefer their own solutions to others'. It's competition and, in a way, rather like natural selection. The software that solves the problem the best, wins. If there is no clear winner, then at least there are multiple alternatives for users and developers to choose from. I will keep preaching this on Slashdot and everywhere else until it finally sinks in: If you don't want the freedom that open source offers, then don't use it. Really, you won't be hurting anyone's feelings by not jumping on the Linux buzzwagon.

Now, these are folks doing very serious work with Linux. Many Slashdoters have said the same things only to be branded as trolls. I can see a future for Android if Google continues to do a good job.

The difference between the trolls and Google is that Google is doing something about their complaints. Rather than bitching and doing, the trolls were just bitching, which is a very trollish thing to do hence they were correctly modded as such.

Also, doesn't it strike you as rather hypocritical that Google would bemoan the fragmentation of the "Linux application environments" and then sets out to create their own? I mean, if fragmentation were really that big an issue for them, then they should have taken an existing solution like Hildon, Moblin, or Maemo and improved or extended it to get the features they wanted. Creating Android only increased the fragmentation of the Linux's mobile interface offerings.

I've never had to reset my N800 to get the browser working properly, but granted, MicroB is sluggish. It seems Gecko is really not suited for mobile platforms without major tweaks, we'll see how well Fennec (the upcoming "mobile Firefox") manages. But yes, the Webkit-based Tear browser is great, definitely much more responsive than MicroB. Now it only needs a proper AdBlocker (about the only that MicroB does better).

(Offtopic, but regarding music and media in general, be sure to check out Canola 2. A wonderful app, can be operated just fine without a stylus)

I've got a nokia n810, which uses a linux distro called maemo. I have to say, as a mobile OS, it's pretty slick, and rock-solid stable. It handles wifi quite well, too, and even does bluetooth tethering to cell phones flawlessly. I think some of those components have been made proprietary by nokia though, so hopefully that won't happen with this distro. There's a lot of potential for linux to take a huge chunk of this market share if the implimentation is done properly.