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Nokia Leaks Phone With Full GNU/Linux Distribution
An anonymous reader writes "It is now clear why Nokia has been so slow with S60 updates: the upcoming N900 just left everything else in the dust. Unlike Google's Linux platform, Nokia is not intentionally breaking compatibility with real distros, choosing instead to bring you the unmatchable power of GNU/Linux on your phone. This is the most awesome device I have ever seen: MAP3 CPU/GPU, 3,5" 800x480 touchscreen, keyboard, Wi-Fi, HSPA, GPS; 5-MP camera, CZ lens, 32 GB storage, SD slot; X11, VT100 terminal emulator, APT package manager. Estimated price without credit: $780 (N.5800: $390, iPhone 3GS: $750). Developers should note that even though the current desktop is still GTK+, Qt will be standard across all Nokia platforms in the near future (less powerful phones will use Qt on the Symbian kernel). Users can download flashing software from Nokia, and patches can be submitted at the Maemo site."
"bring you the unmatchable power of GNU/Linux". Cheesiest. Line. Ever. On /.
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
The Pre runs a practically normal Linux distribution. Granted, all the applications are written in Javascript and not some compiled language using C, but I look at that as a good thing.
About 6 months ago I bought an E71. As an ex Psion 5mx[1] user I'm really disappointed. It's buggy and has an incredibly clunky interface. Just my luck that they won't be bothering to fix anything. First Nokia I've owned and probably the last.
[1] It ran EPOC, the ancestor of Symbian. Clean, simple, intuitive and reliable.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It's not MAP3.. it's OMAP 3
And the VT100 term emulator is based on gnome-terminal (at least it is in older maemo and I see no reason for them to have written a different one)
I searched for the word "phone" throughout that linked article, and nowhere did it mention things like, oh, talking and listening and dialing. No "3G" or "GPRS" mentions either. The N810 and N800 and (N)700 Internet Tablet models look just like this, but WITH NO PHONE GUTS. A few screenshots look like they have phone features, but it really seems odd that a review/preview just doesn't even mention such obvious things. Maybe it's just Skype for all I know.
[
How can you justify that cost? For $800, you could buy a netbook, a basic smart phone, plus hookers and blow.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Are the drivers it requires open source ?
Do Nokia playing nice, are they prepared to go out of their way to obey licenses or are they just interested in 0 cost rather than libre software ?
So it should be no surprise that they go for Qt instead of GTK+ in the long run.
Which is a good thing, actually.
I've been thinking about one of these new Linux phones for my next upgrade. What kind of access does one have to the shell? Can one using an ssh client? How does one transfer data to a Linux workstation? Can one install more shell apps (e.g. ipcalc, tdl and remind)?
UNIX/Linux Consulting
This is the most awesome device I have ever seen
someone is clearly not familiar with the LHC.
I like how there are two rival Slashdot cellphone factions.
There's the "phone should just make phone calls and not have all this shit added on!" faction, which is pre-dominant in a lot of stories.
And then there's the "I can't possibly get by with a phone that doesn't have VT-100 emulation!" faction, who are probably all rushing out to buy this thing right now.
I, uh, don't really have anywhere clever to go with this idea though...
Comment of the year
I think this is fascinating news. But with all this functionality being delivered across so many platforms...
WHY do I still have a PC?
If someone figures out a way to get the device to output to a display and input from a keyboard/mouse. Even if there is another pc involved it would still be useful to many.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
I don't buy an appliance just because it runs Linux or X11 - however I *might* buy one if these features add new functions, or make existing ones easier. So far as what I've already got is concerned, the only thing that comes to mind would be the ability for me (and not anybody else) to log into the phone remotely and use its functions across a network connection.
Other than that, my experience of smart phones is that the keyboard's too small for serious word-work, the screen's too small for almost everything (esp. watching movies) and it's also far too dim to use in daylight. The music player's nice and the camera while limited is good enough for "happy snaps", almost all of which are discarded or ignored as soon as they've been taken. I.e. all features, but few benefits.
So come on Nokia, don't try to impress me with megabytes and gigahertz, tell me what I'll be able to do now, that I couldn't do before. That's where the sales are.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
but will it run linux?
. . . as an owner of an N800, I would like to know if they will still provide the "Easter Egg" / "Red Pill / Blue Pill" option for installing all the cool (and usefull) apps.
Unfortunately, these also could make it easy for some dork to brick the thing.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
unmatchable power of GNU/Linux on your phone
Yay!
Estimated price without credit: $780
Crap, I can't afford one. I lose phones too often; I'm on my third phone this year. When I had a Razr a few years ago I got insurance on it, and the insurance company cancelled me when I dropped the third one in the toilet trying to answer it when I was taking a piss. The way I go through phones I'm lucky to be able to afford the $100 one I have now.
Of course, the Razr was expensive at first, at least I'll be able to get one of these in a few years.
Free Martian Whores!
Folks, I think they new they had to make a strategic move to keep/increase market share. If they do deliver and make it a great open source platform running Linux -- they could have a LOT of applications. Could be a fun device!
can it make phone calls without dropping signal? I'm still waiting for that.
Mobile Review got hold of one and has an article with specs and photos:
article
This is the same article linked to in TFS(ummary)
Reply to That ||
I really like the Qt developerment environment. The interface builder is intuitive and the Qt framework is an excellnt design. Creating a development environment wsa easy - includes were just the include directory and the libs were in the lib directory as it should be. All in C++ by the way and the documentation is top notch. I was building my first Qt app in 20 minutes.
gtk+. Creating the build environment took over an hour of hunting down include directories in places that I would never have thought there would be includes. The same goes for the lib directories. Glade I found to be a pain in the ass. The interface produced is a generated xml file that is read at runtime. Its all in C - win32 GUI programming is a piece of cake compared to gtk+ - I love C, but when it comes to boilerplate GUI code, it's mind numbing.
What's my point is relation to the article? They're moving away from any mobile UI standard - Qt or Java - and they're moving to a UI framework that's overly complicated.
gtk+ was spawned from the GIMP, btw.
Now, I'm sure I can't be the only one that dislikes developing in gtk+, meaning, this new platform may not take-off like some folks think it will.
Losing a phone once I can understand, but after the first time I'd be taking a lot more care where I put it!
If nothing else you should consider getting phone insurance - the premium won't be huge and if you lost phones as often as you suggest it practically pays for itself.
If you are that accident prone why not buy used phones. You know the ones that people chuck in a drawer when they get their next shiny new toy.
Get them unlocked and you are good to go.
My skinflint cousin does it this way.
He then signs up for sim only contracts.
I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
When I had a Razr a few years ago I got insurance on it, and the insurance company cancelled me when I dropped the third one in the toilet trying to answer it when I was taking a piss
Losing a phone once I can understand, but after the first time I'd be taking a lot more care where I put it!
If nothing else you should consider getting phone insurance - the premium won't be huge and if you lost phones as often as you suggest it practically pays for itself.
Second paragraph, third sentence.
Interesting.
I agree about being more careful, I've yet to lose or break a phone after maybe 9 years.
If nothing else you should consider getting phone insurance - the premium won't be huge and if you lost phones as often as you suggest it practically pays for itself.
Maybe you should try reading the whole comment you're replying to.
-- gid
Disclosure: I've been a fan of Nokia S60 smartphones for a while, despite the quirks and interface 'uniqueness' (s60v5).
I picked up an N810 (last display model at a store) recently and was very impressed with the OS2008 release of maemo. It's a beautiful interface on an easy to use platform. I like the form factor for a tablet (but heavy for a phone). I think the N900 shows a lot of promise. I do hope that it is fully functional as a phone.
I'd love to be able to kill -9 a call from a command prompt someday :-)
There's also a plan to port VMS across.
How is the commandline environment of this device?
I experienced how lacking the situation on the N810 was, so I do hope they improved their installation (depmod, module autoloading, ethernet over usb, gpsbt library hacks, package manager doesn't know all libs, etc, etc
This is cool, really cool. A full Linux machine in your pocket. Wow.
Though I do wonder how useful it will actually be. Can Linux bypass the desktop and go straight to the next big thing? User interface and good design are important on such small devices (and frankly, most phones fail more or less), and they're not exactly traditional strongholds of the Linux crowd.
Nevertheless, this is certainly something interesting.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
But, will it blend!?
Sounds great. I can't wait for Qt.
This will likely be my next major phone upgrade.
I own an N800 and an N810 and do some Maemo development work on them. They're IMHO awesome devices. I don't know or care about Nokia in general but they have been steadily improving this line of devices since the N770 and I just cannot begin to tell you how slick they are (again IMHO).
I use skype and gizmo to make VoIP phone calls on them at any Wi-Fi hotspot and they are just fun to play around with. The biggest problem with them, in my experience, is people expect them to be phones and don't get the idea that it's just a handheld PC. Adding cell phone capability with the N900 (and increased horsepower) will, I think, cross this device over from enthusiast toy to a more mainstream "smartphone" even though I think the term does the device a dis-service.
It's just more than a phone. I've never used a cell phone that had a web experience remotely close to the desktop/laptop world. The N800/N810 is 100 times better than any cell phone @ web browsing. The games available (for the most part if it runs on Linux, it'll run on these devices and I've enjoyed playing MAME games on mine), the productivity tools, the multimedia capabilities, etc.
I've never developed apps for the iPhone but I've tinkered with BlackBerry development, Android development and Maemo development. While I think it's not as well-documented perhaps as Android or BlackBerry, and getting set up to do development on it is not as simple, it's easily manageable and *much less locked down* than the other platforms. Developing for Android isn't too bad but I think it still is a bit more locked down, developing for BlackBerry you are also definitely limited by what RIM (and the cell providers) will allow you to do. I hope that with Maemo 5 and the new cell-phone stuff, Nokia doesn't cave to cell providers and start locking shit down on these devices and instead keeps to the spirit of the original open-ness so I can still write apps that do what *I* want them to do, not what T-Mobile wants them to do.
" I totally DO know what it is, and I WANT it"
Now, what to do with my G1... Oh, wait, a remote terminal for my N9000.
Ah.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
You deserve a medal for reading his massive post in its entirety.
which is totally what she said
How does this works with the Microsoft-Nokia deal to have Office in the Nokia phones? Don't tell me we are going to have Office in Linux!
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
Here's a novel concept: Don't answer the phone while you're taking a piss...
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
and I just bought an Nokia N97 :-/
That's why I have mine on a lanyard.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I did read that - I meant rather that you should try getting another insurance company to cover you.
I'm not sure where you're located but here in the UK there are several options, thats ignoring household content policies which can often be used to cover phones.
They bought Trolltech and their Qt Extended phone OS last May, which is completely open-source.
If you want to see what the OS is like, go and see one of the forks: QtMoko, Qt Extended Improved, and probably others. I am using QtMoko on a Freerunner and the interface is sweet even if some parts need more polishing.
You're not old until regret takes the place of your dreams.
I'm curious why nobody mentioned this subject. For me this is a major PITA when trying to develop on S60. 20$ for the privilege of running my own application on my own phone ??? No, thanks. Does anyone know if this scheme is going to be implemented on this phone ?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
its an HTC Touch Pro (my phone) with a GUI that's a bastard son of an iPhone and a PSP. Nothing to see here, move along.
I'm going to have to find a way to get one of these. Decent video, open formats, always on cellular wireless. A gorgeous interface. And I can add applications with apt.
I think a lot of projects are going to start putting more priority on compiling to the ARM platform.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I hope they included pulseaudio, too, because there wasn't enough retarded linux desktop crap on mobile phones.
The most intelligent linux platforms fit for mobile have been Android and Creative's Plaszma so far... this is just retarded overkill. Is it just built for sysadmins and freetards or something? How big can that market possibly be?
It's in the garage.
If it works in Diablo, and on N770s, n800s and n810s, the n900 has got you covered. The n900 may be a phone, but with its OMAP processor and MID heritage, the nerd angle is already covered.
"the unmatchable power of GNU/Linux" Linux is not "unmatchable" by any means. There are other operating systems with the same capabilities.
Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
Wow! It has a VT100 emulator? Wow! That means I can tell both emacs and vi to go to hell and launch EDT editor! Holy Cow! How did I past 25 years without a VT100 emulator I can't figure out. I still need a CRA0: card reader and MT0A: tape reader emulators. But I buy this and wait for the retired VAX-11 engineers to hack it up in open source!!!
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Moblin competitor? Intel versus Nokia?
Something tells me Richard Stallman had a part in this.
As long as they are free and open source hookers as in Free beer.
Living in Chile
That was the last time I ever answered the phone while pissing. The trouble is, I like beer.
Free Martian Whores!
> dropped the third one in the toilet trying to answer it when I was taking a piss
Because calling them back wasn't an option? I wish I got important phone calls like this...
Hmmm... I don't suffer from this affliction, but I am amazed at how people drop there phones in the worst places. My mother managed to drop her little Motorola in a cup of coffee.
For me a lanyard would probably get my phone destroyed. I'd try throwing it from one hand to the other, have the line go taught, and have it smash into something. The worst I've done it have the phone fall out of my pocket into a gutter(while it was raining). After the phone dried out it was fine, I love LG.
. . . can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of these? . . .
1) Help Nokia market this phone ... .... .....
2) Create botnet for this phone/linux....
3)
4)
5)
6) Profit?
yeah yeah, a crappy first try at a profit post, but really, a botnet on a _linux_ phone? that'll be the day
Do not get a Nokia. I own a Nokia N800 and compared to the iphone it is absolute shit! I say this from experience, don't be fooled by the fact that it uses linux! Even with a terminal installed they are not that cool ( I have a fold out keyboard also and it still sucks) , unless the touchscreen is equivalent to what the ipod touch has. And I'm sure it is probably the same type of touch screen that the N800 has which is crap! IPOD is unmatch and will be for a while still!
> dropped the third one in the toilet trying to answer it when I was taking a piss
Because calling them back wasn't an option? I wish I got important phone calls like this...
Spoken like someone without a girlfriend. A callback 30 seconds later... wow, that's ballsy.
"Where WERE you? I tried calling you!"
"Yeah, I'm calling you back, I was in the head"
"You're with that bitch, aren't you?"
*Head-desks*
here's a novel idea: use a lanyard. a lot of phones come with them but people are too lazy/stupid to bother. in some countries they use cellphones like medallions!
I just wasn't thinking. I'd been in the car, and my friend saw her friend on the gound with two police officers standing over him, so we pulled into the gas station so she could run over to help. I took the opportunity to go inside the store and relieve myself.
It turned out that rather than arresting the fellow, the cops were helpiing him -- he was elderly (and drunk) and had fallen down. We wound up thanking the cops and taking him home.
The bastard pissed on my car seat. No good deed ever goes unpunished...
Free Martian Whores!
Married, actually. A girlfriend like that wouldn't last long.
CAN'T BELIEVE I'M BEING FORCED TO USE THIS SHIT BROWSER AT WORK!
Scrolling is so painfully slow .. it's like playing a pixellated lagging game.
IE6
Sent from my desktop computer
"Yeah, I'm calling you back, I was in the head"
"You're with that bitch, aren't you?"
Maybe it's slang I don't recognize, but this doesn't seem like an unreasonable response to me :P
Interesting.
Imagine a world where your phone is your server.
Imagine the overage fees when you exceed the 5 GB per month cap that the network imposes on your server's Internet connection.
I want to trade my ST:OS phone for a ST:NG model! The thing rings, you tap it and talk. Want to talk, tap it and say who you're calling. You can't lose it because it's pinned to your shirt. My old Razr was voice activated, even though sometimes it confused Mom with Mike when I was calling one or the other.
Free Martian Whores!
Well you just know all those insurance companies will share risk data...
"Customer goes through phones like mint candies, do not issue phone insurance!"
Then when they start really using the DNA information accumulating everywhere it will be:
"DNA database indicates the customer has a predisposition to drop his phone during urination, do not issue phone insurance!"
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
There's the "phone should just make phone calls and not have all this shit added on!" faction, which is pre-dominant in a lot of stories.
This faction includes tightwads like me, who use a mobile phone primarily to arrange rides and a land-line for everything else. We don't want to upgrade from our $6/mo Virgin Mobile plan to something that costs an order of magnitude more.
Soooo...when's it coming to Verizon?
Been looking for a Linux phone / PDA to develop apps for. Any thoughts on how this would compare to Palm Pre / Mojo / webOS?
Want to improve your life? This guy will show you how!
so what's the point?
What you state is true for the Linux "brand". Unless the I/O capabilities and application code running on the "worlds fastest super computers" can run on your wristwatch, it doesn't matter.
The first thing I noticed is how the UI is not consistent, every screen things are arranged differently.
Got Code?
Man I hate it when people do that. Don't talk to me while you're pissing, taking a dump or in the bath. In fact anytime your pants are down, just leave the phone alone and get to the business at hand (as it were.)
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
That's a brilliant idea! Why didn't I think of that?
Put my dick on a lanyard!
This space available.
I've only just begun getting into Android. I may be wrong there. I like what I've gotten into so far it just seems way too tied to Google. That's what I meant.
But I freely admit I could be wrong because I've really only just begun with it and have not gotten far enough in to figure out how easy it is to run Android on whatever device I want and not rely on Google's services. I believe it can be done as I seem to recall some story about Android powering set top boxes and even a netbook.
If I can put Cron on this thing, it will be worth it. Setting schedules for changing profiles (automatically switch phone to silent at 8:30, switch back to normal at 5:30) would almost be worth it on its own.
A nokia phone with a more-or-less-debian on it?
Sounds almost too good to be true. And so far, whenever somthing sounded too good to be true, it was. So, right now I'm just burning to see how Nokia's going to cripple this one...
OK, get an watch phone, these have voice dialling, and with a bluetooth headset you can pretend to be a borg.
"Yeah, I'm calling you back, I was in the head"
"You're with that bitch, aren't you?"
Maybe it's slang I don't recognize, but this doesn't seem like an unreasonable response to me :P
It means "bathroom"
"Here's a novel concept: Don't answer the phone while you're taking a piss..."
I'm incontinent, you insensitive clod!
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Here's a novel concept: Don't answer the phone while you're taking a piss...
...unless your using hands-free or bluetooth.
Following that line of reasoning you'd have to cope with EDLIN on Windows driven phones :-)
Insert
The Dodge Ram on 33s riding proud at 65 in the left lane.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Very useful, especially if you have detachable penis.
Apple created iPhone OS and are developing it with each release.
Nokia and others keep developing platforms, then letting them stagnate, then dropping them and creating another platform.
Just give your users some continuity, stop switching between platforms, it seriously annoys developers as they don't have time to master a platform and it annoys users who get sick of rebuying applications for each device.
What a loser. You know that laptops come with lock down cables, right? So, get one for your phone, FFS. Now, you're going to ask me, "What do I lock it down to?" Oh ye of little imagination. You've heard of body piercing, right? Take your lame ass down to the local piercing shop, lay your tallywhacker on the counter, and have a ring put into it. (Yes, they make rings small enough to fit your equipment.) Take all of your jeans, cut a little hole in the bottom of the pocket so you can pass that cable through. Attach one end of the cable to your ring, attach the other end to the phone. Problem solved. And, just THINK of what you and your girlfriend can do with that cable at night!! Oh, one last thought. Turn the ringer off on your phone, and just let the thing vibrate.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
And I think that some people don't care what their cell phone manufacturer/carrier think is best for them
What about what their national government agency that regulates radio communication thinks is best for them? Some less-expensive phone architectures run baseband and apps on the same core. These need some sort of sandbox, or applications will be able to step all over the baseband. FCC no like.
First of all, modern Javascript is fast. Even if it weren't, this isn't your grandmother's Intel 8080. Modern cell phones have processors that would beat the pants off a desktop machine from a scant few years ago while using a reasonable amount of power. (Counter-intuitively, using a faster processor saves power because you spend less time running code and more in low-power sleep.)
Don't forget cleaner, smaller code and a certain insulation from API changes. Have you so quickly forgotten the pain of the Great Symbian ABI break? With Javascript, there is no ABI to break, which gives the platform developers far more flexibility in improving the platform.
You clearly have no idea how modern Javascript runtime systems work. They're compiled to bytecode for ages, and modern Javascript engines compile down to machine code. Like I said, modern Javascript is fast as hell.
There are more vulnerabilities in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Non-executable pages provide some protection against some attacks, but they're not a panacea.
They are already there if you really need them. You can write a browser plugin (using NSAPI, the API that's been stable for 15 years) or you can write a normal, boring Linux process in whatever language you want, and have your Javascript front-end communicate with it over dbus. (That's how WebOS reuses libpurple, the same library that Pidgin uses.) But chances are, you don't need to write native code.
I am a cyborg, I have a device (CrystaLens) implanted in my left eye.
You will be assimilated!
Free Martian Whores!
the Palm Pre has a standard OpenEmbedded based distro. you can install packages from the OptWare repository. enjoy fully supported, debugged and tested Linux components that are updated on a regular basis--all written by very talented engineers who are committed to getting awesomeness to customers as often as they can. (has Nokia ever released updates as often as Palm has for webOS?)
don't like javascript apps? rip out the webOS window manager and put whatever you want on it. or maybe you want both. you can always switch between the two. the development community has already figured out how to do this.
and the Mojo javascript development environment does have its strengths. it's the first platform since the computers of the 80s where you can hack on it right out of the box.
how could you not love a company that made the contra code an officially-supported way of entering development mode?
When you think about the amount of new TVs with built-in VGA and HDMI inputs, a phone that grows into a computer could become popular.
thats the only time to answer a phone... at least at the strip club.
My computer science upbringing consisted in serial line terminals. The DEC VT220 is where I did loads of work on. That was late 80s and I have never ever used or seen a VT100 as by that time that was considered ancient. As I'm in the category older/mature, I'd wager that not only the vast majority of prospect clients will not give a rat's arse about VT100 but also most of us techies. Hell, will the phone come with a 25 pin RS232 port? Maybe grandpa Ken and Dennis -and I say this with the utmost respect- might remember the VT100 all too well, but for most of us it is merely the simplest protocol by which a terminal works.
Whoever wrote the blurb isn't a hands on techie. Otherwise he/she would have just referred to a terminal emulator.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
Simple solution is get a lanyard and carry the phone wound your neck. Ignore anyone who attempts to criticize you, you've got your reasons!
You clearly have no idea how modern Javascript runtime systems work. They're compiled to bytecode for ages, and modern Javascript engines compile down to machine code. Like I said, modern Javascript is fast as hell.
You've made some good points, for sure.
Storage space on these devices is an issue as well, however. It seems rather silly to store source code on your device in addition to a native binary. Given that this is Palm we're talking about I'm not convinced that their runtime engine is terribly well optimized for time or space... That's sort of a separate issue, of course, more specific to the Pre itself. But ever since PACE failed to go away I haven't trusted Palm with any serious technical decisions. :)
One issue that makes a huge difference here is whether WebOS programs are stored as Javascript source or as byte-compiled code. If it's the former then that is simply cracked - blatant waste of limited resources. If it's the latter, that's more reasonable. I still don't think it's too bright to run interpreted code on an embedded device, but at least if the "interpreted code" is an intermediate, compact byte code that's a bit better.
blah blah blah blah Non-executable pages provide some protection against some attacks, but they're not a panacea.
And interpreted code is?
I mean, look at the overall situation: really, there's very little a process can do on an OS unless the OS kernel allows it. Network communication, I/O, CPU utilization, thread or process creation, memory utilization, whatever - it all goes through system calls, and the OS kernel is at liberty to deny any request that it chooses to. The only thing an interpreted environment offers beyond this in the way of safeguards is protection from hardware vulnerabilities - flaws in the CPU's implementation of access control that could result in privilege escalation issues.
They are already there if you really need them. You can write a browser plugin (using NSAPI, the API that's been stable for 15 years) or you can write a normal, boring Linux process in whatever language you want, and have your Javascript front-end communicate with it over dbus. (That's how WebOS reuses libpurple, the same library that Pidgin uses.) But chances are, you don't need to write native code.
The hell I don't.
First off, maybe I've got some hefty established code base I want to port over, rather than re-write in a new language. (The HanDBase people are apparently facing this issue - their app was written for PalmOS in C. To move it over to the Pre - natively, I mean - requires either porting that C code or rewriting the damn thing...)
Or maybe I just have some code that I need to run fast. Games are one of the most common scenarios. (Palm, I've heard, are already addressing that...)
Bow-ties are cool.
Wow, +5 insightful, the MS astroturfers are both numerous and popular on Slashdot these-a-days!
Now get to work soldiers and mod me down!
Nokia, the world's largest handset mfgr is getting into netbooks and Dell, the world's largest PC mfgr is getting into handsets. As a developer I need to know who's going to win the battle. I am in serious need of a cystal ball...
I've been trying to psych myself up and jump in to Android development with both feet but that means getting back in to Java, the SDK and the Android way. I can apply myself to learn and master any language but I want to understand the future before I drink the Koolaid. Google went to great lengths to create a secure sandbox in order to appeal to the security conscious carriers but the Maemo openness is more appealing. Does Maemo have a chance against the Android juggernaut?
Did you mean your phone?
Spoken like someone without a girlfriend.
This is /. We don't have girlfriends, so we don't know.
Do some research before spreading FUD. Palm WebOS uses V8, the same Javascript engine that Chrome uses. It compiles to machine code.
You're not storing the source and the binary: you're storing the source and generating the binary at runtime. You don't need to simultaneously hold in memory all the compiled code for all programs, or even the whole of a single program. Furthermore, source is often smaller than the binary. Saving the generated code wouldn't be advantageous either because the time it takes to generate it is trivial. This whole line of argument is specious.
The set of vulnerabilities in managed code is a subset of the set of vulnerabilities in native code, barring bugs in the runtime environment. Of course managed code isn't invulnerable, but many common attacks against native code simply don't apply.
If the code is portable to Linux, do what Palm did for libpurple and abstract it away. If, as in your example, the code is written for some obscure, dead environment, then you're going to have to port the code anyway regardless of what Palm offers; at that point, you might as well just port it to Javascript.
For graphics and sound, yes. There are APIs for that, including a 3D canvas extension that (AFAIK) will be distributed soon. The 2D stuff already works very well.
I really like that fact that they put a cover on the camera lens. I have to get a new back cover for my phone since my lens is all scratched up and my picture turned out all fuzzy and have a smokey effect.
I just "upgraded" my wonderful N95 8GB to a buggy, strange, morphodite N97. I also have the Nokia, N770 and N800 tablets which rock. I know I just blew 700 bux and change on the awful N97, however I will give Nokia this one mistake. I hope the N900 is like the tablet with a phone, and more.
I'll be 1st in line.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
So? Does it really take you that long to piss?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
"Yea, actually I was. I forgot to tell you I'm breaking up with you, you clingy, narcissistic jackass. She'd say hello, but my cock is in the way." would be the proper response to that. Substitute "jackass" for your choice of word.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I have huge kidneys and a huge bladder.
Free Martian Whores!
> dropped the third one in the toilet trying to answer it when I was taking a piss
Because calling them back wasn't an option? I wish I got important phone calls like this...
Spoken like someone without a girlfriend. A callback 30 seconds later... wow, that's ballsy.
Wow. I'm really sorry for you, but some of us have mentally stable girlfriends, thankyouverymuch.
Do some research before spreading FUD. Palm WebOS uses V8, the same Javascript engine that Chrome uses. It compiles to machine code.
Sorry, don't really know where to get this kind of information about WebOS. But, you know, Palm really hasn't inspired a lot of confidence in me over the last five years. That's not FUD, that's fact. But I also accept as fact that their new platform may have its act together a little better than I thought. It's just very counter-intuitive, you know? I'm used to Palm being the sad old shadow of their former glory. :)
You're not storing the source and the binary: you're storing the source and generating the binary at runtime.
You either store two copies of the program all the time, or re-interpret it each time you run... Or something in between (caching strategy) - either way, storing textual program code on the device is very wasteful.
The set of vulnerabilities in managed code is a subset of the set of vulnerabilities in native code, barring bugs in the runtime environment. Of course managed code isn't invulnerable, but many common attacks against native code simply don't apply.
Still not convinced that's worth a big chunk of runtime performance, storage, and severe restriction in the choice of development languages - but that's just me. :)
If, as in your example, the code is written for some obscure, dead environment, then you're going to have to port the code anyway regardless of what Palm offers
Palm users aren't supposed to talk about PalmOS as an obscure dead platform... XD
In the case of HanDBase they already ported the app to WinCE and other platforms, including the desktop version of Windows, basically rewriting the whole database interface to work with flat PDB files... It's still pretty natural to expect they'd have to rewrite the GUI for a new platform, but they've got a bunch of code which, one would hope, would simply be reusable on a new platform. Work that's already done which shouldn't have to be redone, or retested. This is somewhat complicated on platforms where apps are expected to be fully managed and language choice is limited.
Anyway - as I said you've made very good points... I'd like to look at the platform from a somewhat different angle. Ignoring the whole managed code/Javascript issue, which is also a matter of taste from my perspective- What's so great about WebOS? All I really know about it is what's on Wikipedia, combined with the fact that a lot of people seem to think it's really quite fantastic, for reasons I can't quite pin down.
Bow-ties are cool.
Funny you should mention that.
Mozilla uses a cluster of N810's for developing/testing Fennec...
http://blog.johnford.info/14-more-nokias/
If Nokia wanted Maemo to be an ongoing, living OSS project, they'd let other manufacturers make hardware to run it. In fact, they'd actively ENCOURAGE other manufacturers. With more platforms, there would be more impetus for developers to produce Maemo apps.
I have yet to see a low-power consumption "general purpose PC" using an OMAP3 or 4 processor. Seems to me that would be a great machine for commercial thin-client or embedded/kiosk uses, or netbooks, or other handhelds. AFAICS, there is no such hardware on the market--just the Nokia 700/800 series. (The few OMAP3 small computers I've seen have been like the Glacier E2000--they stick you with miserable old Windows CE, take it or leave it. Or you get Android. Or you get a Palm Pre, and you're stuck with whatever that thing runs, and a devel community that only cares about porting old Palm OS apps to that new OS.....That's your choice. Want to install a more general-purpose OS? Sorry.)
This is likely to be a great little machine, and I'm probably going to buy one. Say what you will about the older Nokia tablets, they are valid handheld computers, the web browser is better than any on other handhelds, and their screens make the iPhone's display look pathetic. However, it would be nice to see Maemo enjoy a more diverse future, than running on a single Nokia handheld.
Perhaps you can work on increasing your urethral diameter :P
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
bsd ftw!
See:
http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Linux_Applications
Enjoy your gcc.
The way Maemo currently works on the Nokia Tablets is without signing. I would assume, though, that they get some control over what applications get according to the repository they're in. So far, getting into Maemo-extras (or whatever it is) hasn't appeared to be a hurdle for anyone with a legitimate product.
My biggest beef is that those OMWeather folks seem to update their build every week or so.
Don't breathe this!
Imagine Beowulf of those, dude.
Can anybody lend me $780? You know I'm good for it.
Property is theft.
It runs linux (w00t) and has a really nice screen. However, it's a brick. I think I'll stick with my iPhone 3GS and Netbook running linux combo thanks; lug a brick when I need to, simplicity and elegance when I only want the phone.
The shell can be switched to zsh with ease and almost everyone uses bash somewhere
The utilities in an embedded are usually busybox which are not part of GNU, hell, you could even run the BSD utilities.
The kernel can run alone and most linux applications run a kernel without shell or utilities in the embedded world.
The GNU system is a retcon after even the GNU Project internally admitted that GNU was a failure as a full stand-alone OS because its kernel design choices were poor and the kernel hackers had ridiculous priorities.
The distributions are OS in and of themselves. I don't use GNU/Linux, I use Archlinux.
As somebody who, is currently being frustrated by the cheapest phone available (Sony Ericsson have crippled the software so bad it doesn't have features the N500 had, deleting oldest sms, etc), I really hope that linux makes its way down the food chain to cheap nokia phone a few years in the future.
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Estimated price without credit: $780
LOL. Thanks, but no thanks.
please.
Estimated price without credit: $780
WTF? My credit score affects the price I'm quoted for a phone?
Presumably this meant to mean "without a contract subsidy"? Some of us choose PAYG based on usage, but it doesn't stop us buying a non-crappy phone.
Did anyone notice how filthy the piece in the link is. It seems as if someone rubbed it on an oily pig before taking the pics.
And the original post is obviously a promotional thing by one of Nokia's drones. Can't anyone see that.
As for the phone, well I don't care about Linux part, but seeing the screenshots there are so many UI mistakes that know they are not gonna do anything to the iphone market share. Some companies just don't get it.
iPhone is $750 by real price, so all of them who compare this to that, price is not that different. :)
I will buy one of these. But one thing will totally suck: synchronization with Outlook. If any of you code monkeys had any balls, you come up with an app that would reliabley and painlessly sync this bad boy with my hosted exchange. I would pay a monthly fee for that to "just work!"
Social Credit would solve everything...
I'm always using the hands-free method when taking a piss...
That N900 is nice. Really nice screen and processor.
But the battery isn't going to be big enough. I had to get a 2600mAh battery for my G1 (which makes the phone quite fat) just to get some decent usage out of it. The standard 1100mAh wasn't nearly enough on the G1, so I doubt a 1300mAh one on the N900 is going to be sufficient either.
The other critical factor for me is the keyboard. The G1 has all the symbols you'd normally use in programming, and I really appreciate that. Well, except for the escape key, but that's mapped to the trackball with the ConnectBot application (local terminal and ssh client).
Still... a laudable effort from Nokia. If I could just talk them into one more row of keys...
Are you joking? Port application for what? For some idiot intern CS student to reject it?
How will you distribute? To 1% nerds who bought iPhone but hacked it to be a real smart phone?
They reject Google, the giant, Internet God, whatever you call them... They openly joke with FCC. As a single developer, your application won't be rejected right? For what reason exactly?
Different window manager? It doesn't even run X-windows. Between not having X11 and not using glibc (trying building shared library for google android), means you can't even begin to compile an existing Unix GUI application for Android. That is the bigger gripe to me than if it shipped with all the normal programs I expect with a complete Linux distribution. With a Linux Standard Base distribution, download the source, compile, and run, not with Android.
They referenced TV output, PAL at least, maybe next time they'll put an HDMI port on it.
Having all this cool stuff on a phone is awesome, but please do not forget the most practical part of a mobile phone: being able to call people. My SHC Touch Diamond makes it hell, especially when calling to automated services.
I am not devoid of humor.
It sounds like you had a similar experience as I had with OS X/Aqua. I bought a Powerbook because it was unix...but they changed things in annoying ways and the UI didn't work quite right with others. Changing back to Linux made me feel free again.
It was kind of a surprising progression for me. I mean, I've been using Linux exclusively on my home desktop since 1997 or so (and, prior to that, dual-booting since 1995) - I went with Mac for my first laptop because I wanted to avoid configuration hassles and have some measure of commercial software support for it. I think the first time I started to realize it wasn't such a great fit was when I was using the laptop for slide presentations - first using Open Office (and having to deal with Mac's X server issues with the clipboard, dual-monitor support, and full screen mode) and then Keynote... But I was creating this content on the desktop, using GIMP and KPresenter and so on (having discovered that I actually really don't like OpenOffice very much) - so I had to go through an annoying series of transitions to get from KPresenter to Keynote. Even GIMP wasn't terribly at home on the Mac at that time, since there was no native GTK port at that point (once a native port did materialize, I had to upgrade the OS to use it)...
It's kind of surreal to think of it in these terms, but I switched away from Mac to Linux (for my laptop, anyway) because it's better at running the software I want to run.
Also when I got my EEE I also tried Gnome for the first time. (I've mostly been a KDE user) That's been a great experience - just as it "feels right" for me, personally, to have a desktop running on an X server, running a bunch of GNU software, GNOME also somehow just "felt right" when I first used it. It hasn't been a perfect experience (for instance it has an annoying habit of dimming the screen while I'm doing things - and if an application is using sound and the machine suspends, the application's sound won't work when the machine wakes again...) but I've enjoyed it quite a lot.
Even as old as it is I think my Powerbook is still a great piece of hardware... More compact than most laptops but much more luxuriously spacious than my EEE... If I could run Linux on it well, I would. (The main things there are wi-fi and graphics support - I think the state of those isn't so good on PPC Linux.) I haven't really put in the time to determine whether I could bend Mac OS into an environment in which I could feel at home... I think if I weren't using my EEE so much I might use the Powerbook a lot more. :)
Bow-ties are cool.
Or swap out the headset for a yellow fedora and coat, and pretend to be Dick Tracy.
5inch 1024x600 touchscreen, touch-typable keyboard, ubuntu preinstalled?
Sharp NetWalker
Don't discount the original linux clamshell proponents!