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Because my clients need a rock-soild[sic], easy to use, fast, compliant, stable, free browser for our Internet/Intranet applications. That's IE 5.

IE 5 is only "rock-solid, etc." if you run it on a Macintosh system. Mozilla is already somewhat more compliant than IE 5 for Windows and has nearly surpassed it in the stability department. Plus, it's both free and Free.

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Download the latest Mozilla milestone.
Java works.

That's why I suggested the MPL 1.1, not the MPL 1.0. See
http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/MPL-1.1.html, section "13. MULTIPLE-LICENSED CODE".

We can credit W3C for being forward-looking, but I expect that CSSMP will go the way of WAP.

Perhaps not. I believe the point of this newly crafted subset of CSS2 is to provide a stable reference for useful functions that ought to be in mobile devices (meaning ultra-portable devices with limited display capabilities, and not meaning laptops which might have better display capabilities than many quite old desktop computer layouts with small VGA monitors which are still in use throughout the world).

This area is of keen interest to me, and after the long agony with simple HTML 3.2/4.0[1]+ and with CSS1 through the still not-quite-totally-there CSS2, any way to avoid any more standards wrangling will come as a great relief to those of us who have to actually do this stuff for a living. I'd imagine that XSLT 1.0+ engines will do much of the actual work, and it really helps to be able to more or less reuse all that existing work with a near-exact subset of CSS2.

Anyways, I'm back (in a few minutes, after a little more procrastination) to figuring out how to most efficiently split up parts of (simple for now) XML documents for later Java/Python XML/XSLT processing, while allowing simpler, more immediate PHP 4.0+ XML processing. Argh ....

And this is NOT just a linux/unix issue. System Administrators of NT/W2K boxen also expect that programs don't write into the program directories...

This one is a real killer. Years of work and because of this, those of us that deploy desktops that number in the thousands (in my case) will decide it's not worth it and not bother... Too many risks, too many hassles...

Cheers //Johan

Cheers //Johan

Cheers //Johan

I know you need to do it for PSM. There is a bug opened about it.

Basically, any user who runs mozilla needs to be able to write to mozilla/psm/components/xpdi.dat Yes, it's a bad bug. And it looks like the mozilla guys are still arguing about whether it should be fixed!

This is cool. Now we even have trolls submitting stories. How can I mark the story as -1 flamebait?

MSIE is not open source, bad Microsoft, bad bad..

Mozilla is open source, bugs, bugs, bad, bad

Sometimes I think that nothing is good enough for some people. You're damned if you don't release your source code and you're damned if you develop your software openly giving full access to CVS.

Mozilla bashers should really look deep in the mirror. www.mozilla.org, www.mozillazine.org and especially bugzilla.mozilla.org contain everything you need to know about Mozilla. You can find out why the tarballs are big (several skins, debugging code), why the memory footprint is big (not optimized yet) and what bugs are still to be fixed (a lot). If you're lazy, stop by at #mozilla on IRC and ask. You'll get a fast answer, I guarantee you.

People, understand your responsibility. Go find out before climbing on a soap box and starting to complain. All this complaining about Mozilla crashing will hurt it's reputation. And Mozilla or Netscape is not to be blamed for it. Mozilla has been pre-alpha, alpha or beta all the time. Any programmer knows that it's still far away from a rock solid Mozilla 1.0.

However, I do use Mozilla more than Netscape now. I love Mozilla's speed on NT and how it renders correctly pages that the old Netscape can't even dream about. That's very nice for a beta-version, isn't it? Let's see how the memory footprint and stability is in another six months or a year.

The bottom line still is that Mozilla looks good. It has got a lot faster lately. It's getting better and better every week and when it's ready, it will be fabulous. I just hope that this Mozilla bashing won't give it a bad rep so that people won't even try the final product.

This is cool. Now we even have trolls submitting stories. How can I mark the story as -1 flamebait?

MSIE is not open source, bad Microsoft, bad bad..

Mozilla is open source, bugs, bugs, bad, bad

Sometimes I think that nothing is good enough for some people. You're damned if you don't release your source code and you're damned if you develop your software openly giving full access to CVS.

Mozilla bashers should really look deep in the mirror. www.mozilla.org, www.mozillazine.org and especially bugzilla.mozilla.org contain everything you need to know about Mozilla. You can find out why the tarballs are big (several skins, debugging code), why the memory footprint is big (not optimized yet) and what bugs are still to be fixed (a lot). If you're lazy, stop by at #mozilla on IRC and ask. You'll get a fast answer, I guarantee you.

People, understand your responsibility. Go find out before climbing on a soap box and starting to complain. All this complaining about Mozilla crashing will hurt it's reputation. And Mozilla or Netscape is not to be blamed for it. Mozilla has been pre-alpha, alpha or beta all the time. Any programmer knows that it's still far away from a rock solid Mozilla 1.0.

However, I do use Mozilla more than Netscape now. I love Mozilla's speed on NT and how it renders correctly pages that the old Netscape can't even dream about. That's very nice for a beta-version, isn't it? Let's see how the memory footprint and stability is in another six months or a year.

The bottom line still is that Mozilla looks good. It has got a lot faster lately. It's getting better and better every week and when it's ready, it will be fabulous. I just hope that this Mozilla bashing won't give it a bad rep so that people won't even try the final product.

Actually, it's not every time it loads a page, but every time it loads a page with a textfield. That's bug 41813, and it's being worked on.

Don't you just love being able to see what the developers think of the bugs that annoy you? :)

© 2000 Ilmari. All ritghts reserved, all wrongs reversed

Shoot... extrans didn't like that one bit.
Here's the proper clickable link this time.
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Where can the word be found, where can the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence.

Have you *really* been using Mozilla lately? It does use the GTK theme; some idiot even submitted a bug about it to Bugzilla: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show _bu g.cgi?id=53723

The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.

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As I stated in my other post, the segfault at startup is due to bug 41057 - Mozilla should not need write access to the binary directory. The current work around is to run mozilla once as root before running it as a user. That way it will at least create the files it needs to start up.

The biggest bug in mozilla for linux right now is its inability to start unless it has write access to the directory that it is installed in. ( Bug 41057) This kept me from actually using the nightly builds for the past several weeks because I couldn't get them to start.

If anybody else is using mozilla, can you go and confirm this security bug for me? I hate being the only one who has looked at it.

The biggest bug in mozilla for linux right now is its inability to start unless it has write access to the directory that it is installed in. ( Bug 41057) This kept me from actually using the nightly builds for the past several weeks because I couldn't get them to start.

If anybody else is using mozilla, can you go and confirm this security bug for me? I hate being the only one who has looked at it.

It's weird to see all this Mozilla bashing going on. Yes, it has taken a long time and yes, it's not read yet but how many of you Mozilla bashers have really given Mozilla a try? A good one instead of "it segfaulted at startup, so it sucks"?

Netscape PR3 won't be installed on my computer. Nope, I really don't need all the AOL stuff. That's why I have been downloading Mozilla daily builds and actually use them more than the old Netscape. And let me tell you, the latest builds have been impressive in both speed and stability.

So here's how you should do it. Go to Mozillazine and check the build bar there. Go read the comments and choose a nice build. That way you can actually choose not to download a bad build. If one of those crashes too much, delete your .mozilla-directory. Chances are you have an old one which is not necessarily compatible.

That's it. Oh, and don't only talk the talk. Walk the walk and submit bugs instead of just complaining about beta-versions.

Even though I won't buy Opera, it's nice to see some competition. I strongly suspect they will have a hard time with Mozilla, though.

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I want working SSL.

Hey Dude. Netscape has released the PSM for Mozilla, as mentioned in the Crypto-FAQ.

If you compiled Mozilla, you have to change a couple things, but then you just use its update features by hitting the large-ish button on that web page that says "Install Netscape PSM for Linux".

If you like, I can spare you any advice about reading documentation. Cheers.

Looking through these comments I can see they are evenly divided between "it's slow and bloated and doesn't work" to "it's lean and fast and really much better". I guess the moral is that just because it works for you, doesn't mean it'll work for someone else. And if it doesn't work for you, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Mozilla has now become my main browser, the only thing I need netscape 4.x for is to log into some sites because of bug 53182. Vote for it, if you haven't. It's important.

Uhm. Where is this mozilla that you speak of? The Mozilla I've tried has been bloated, slow, and buggy.

I tried submitting bug reports...I followed their FAQ to the letter...but people on bugzilla seemed to scoff at any reports from anyone outside of @netscape.net.

For me, IE5 in Windows, Konqueror in Linux. Both are very speedy, and neither one has crashed yet for me...

Just my $0.02...
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Remember, this version is being dropped even though M18 hasn't come out yet.

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Damn, now where did I put Bill's e-address?

It's billg@microsoft.com .

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This slashdot post generated by Mozilla. Click "here" for details.

First of all, neither of the most common two web browsers are free as in free speech

Is Mozilla MPL a "free as in free speech" license? Is GNU GPL? The latest version of the #2 browser (Netscape Communicator) is now mostly MPL with a growing number of dual-licensed MPL/GPL modules.

Sounds like Mozilla :)
We have a growing community of QA and testing volunteers who have been working and learning QA process on one of the largest open source projects out there.

mozilla.org provides daily Mozilla builds for 3 to 4 platforms here. We provide an open (and kickass) bug reporting and tracking tool Bugzilla Our QA and testing docs are getting better all the time (Mozilla QA) with published daily smoketests as well as detailed functional test suites for all areas of the product.

If you're intererested in getting involved with a one of a kind open source QA and testing project please take a look at our Getting Involved pages or stop in to #mozillazine or #qa on irc.mozilla.org We have a weekly help session (BugDay) every Tuesday for new folks interested in getting involved. So if all this talk about open source quality has sparked your interests let us know.

-Asa
Mozilla QA and Stuff

Sounds like Mozilla :)
We have a growing community of QA and testing volunteers who have been working and learning QA process on one of the largest open source projects out there.

mozilla.org provides daily Mozilla builds for 3 to 4 platforms here. We provide an open (and kickass) bug reporting and tracking tool Bugzilla Our QA and testing docs are getting better all the time (Mozilla QA) with published daily smoketests as well as detailed functional test suites for all areas of the product.

If you're intererested in getting involved with a one of a kind open source QA and testing project please take a look at our Getting Involved pages or stop in to #mozillazine or #qa on irc.mozilla.org We have a weekly help session (BugDay) every Tuesday for new folks interested in getting involved. So if all this talk about open source quality has sparked your interests let us know.

-Asa
Mozilla QA and Stuff

Sounds like Mozilla :)
We have a growing community of QA and testing volunteers who have been working and learning QA process on one of the largest open source projects out there.

mozilla.org provides daily Mozilla builds for 3 to 4 platforms here. We provide an open (and kickass) bug reporting and tracking tool Bugzilla Our QA and testing docs are getting better all the time (Mozilla QA) with published daily smoketests as well as detailed functional test suites for all areas of the product.

If you're intererested in getting involved with a one of a kind open source QA and testing project please take a look at our Getting Involved pages or stop in to #mozillazine or #qa on irc.mozilla.org We have a weekly help session (BugDay) every Tuesday for new folks interested in getting involved. So if all this talk about open source quality has sparked your interests let us know.

-Asa
Mozilla QA and Stuff

Sounds like Mozilla :)
We have a growing community of QA and testing volunteers who have been working and learning QA process on one of the largest open source projects out there.

mozilla.org provides daily Mozilla builds for 3 to 4 platforms here. We provide an open (and kickass) bug reporting and tracking tool Bugzilla Our QA and testing docs are getting better all the time (Mozilla QA) with published daily smoketests as well as detailed functional test suites for all areas of the product.

If you're intererested in getting involved with a one of a kind open source QA and testing project please take a look at our Getting Involved pages or stop in to #mozillazine or #qa on irc.mozilla.org We have a weekly help session (BugDay) every Tuesday for new folks interested in getting involved. So if all this talk about open source quality has sparked your interests let us know.

-Asa
Mozilla QA and Stuff

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I will conciede that I was wrong regarding the actual release of the source code. This is thanks to the anonymous coward who posted a clever way you can still get to the original page, albeit not directly at http://www.mozilla.org/webtools/bonsai/cvsvie w2.cgi?diff_mode=context&whitespace_mode=show&root =/cvsroot&subdir=mozilla-org/html/projec ts/chat&command=DIFF_FRAMESET&root=/cvsroot&file=i m-apispec.html&rev1=1.1&rev2=1.5

But I do ask all of you to ponder this, why was the chat module pulled if Mozilla didn't have the source code? One reason could be that AOL didn't want to have their lead in instant messaging being undercut. But then again, AOL doesn't seem to mind that AIM and ICQ compete against each other.

Bah! It wasn't really pulled, you can still access it at http://www.mozilla.org/webtools/bonsai/cvsvie w2.cgi?diff_mode=context&whitespace_mode=show&root =/cvsroot&subdir=mozilla-org/html/projec ts/chat&command=DIFF_FRAMESET&root=/cvsroot&file=i m-apispec.html&rev1=1.1&rev2=1.5

The page quoted in the article shows its a pretty big win for some "typical use" sites on slower modems.

Incidentally, no extra load would be neccessary on the server for static content if it was pre-compressed.

Actually, Mozilla.org released the API for AIM, but it got pulled soon afterward. Here is the page where it was and it tells why the API was pulled from the site.

Actually, Mozilla.org released the API for AIM, but it got pulled soon afterward. Here is the page where it was and it tells why the API was pulled from the site.

What new k3wl stuff? I don't see any of it. Every feature request in the bugzilla database is being marked as "future" now, and even bugs are often marked "future" or "nsbeta3-".

(For those who don't know the Mozilla jargon, "nsbeta3-" means "not now" and "future" means "really not now".:-)

This story caused me to browse the mozilla.org site for the first time in a while. I ran across a set of seamonkey training videos. They're all in RealPlayer format! Since they're not meant to be streamed, this is technically silly. And of course, Free Software diehards who refuse to download RealPlayer won't be able to use them....

Wow, that's some kick-ass photoshop work.

http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap- images/branching.gif

Let's see GIMP do that

http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap-im ages/branching.gif

Look at the "Netscape 6 RTM". See it flash? Why? Is there a subliminal 'RATS' in there? Hmmm.

The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.

On the milestones page you see that M16 is labelled "feature complete", and rest of the work after that is bugfixing and optimization. How stringently they are/will be holding to that, dunno. He (Brendan) does say in the background paragraph that "Mozilla doesn't need new features" or new modules. So I really wouldn't worry about feature creep at this point.
--GAck

If you think Mozilla is too slow, then by all means, use Galeon. It's very fast. I trust you will be impressed by it's speed of loading and rendering pages. I know I am.

Mozilla doesn't support java, nor does it support the Java 1.3 plugin. I find this considerably lacking.

Mozilla does support Java on Win32 (yuk!) - the implementation is not there yet on Linux. Mozilla doesn't wrap it up internally as Netscape 4.x did. Check out Project Blackwood for details on the implementation.

Mozilla should eventually come with a web configurator of sorts that would allow people to configure the browser before they download it.

That sounds vaguely possible, but it strikes me that it's easier to have that as something launched by the browser once you have downloaded it rather than by some packaging agent at the server.

As in, I want flash, java, and shockwave. I check them, and I download the browser with these things installed (be they plug-ins or otherwise).

I have no trouble running Flash in Mozilla. I haven't tried the latest Shockwave plugin. Mozilla has plugin-compatability with Netscape plugins, so just set them up for Netscape and they work in Mozilla.

I doubt the plugin manufacturers would have much problem with this (unless they were Microsoft), and it could usher in a new wave of recent-java browsers.

There may be licensing problems with having all the plugins on one server - from what I see, most plugins are distributed from the creator's websites and not from, say, the Netscape plugin collection.

Cheers,

Toby Haynes

If you check the link you will see:

NSS 3.1 provides, for the first time, a complete open-source implementation of the crypto libraries used to implement security features in these products, including a new implementation of the RSA algorithm.

Is it just me or has the number of people posting to stories who have not looked at the content been increasing to a critical S/N ratio?

If you check the link you will see:

NSS 3.1 provides, for the first time, a complete open-source implementation of the crypto libraries used to implement security features in these products, including a new implementation of the RSA algorithm.

Is it just me or has the number of people posting to stories who have not looked at the content been increasing to a critical S/N ratio?

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[Disclaimer: I don't work for/on Netscape or Mozilla, I just reported a few bugs]

You got examples? Fantastic! That's useful info for the developers. So why are you crippling yourself by using PR2?

PR2 is cool, but it's a packaged beta, and it's already old code.

You can prepare useful reports on reproducible bugs. Get the latest binary, check if the problem still exists, then report it straight to the developers.

Seriously. You don't need to put Some Faceless Corp between you and the coders anymore. You've got a direct line!

Have fun,
Dave

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[Disclaimer: I don't work for/on Netscape or Mozilla, I just reported a few bugs]

You got examples? Fantastic! That's useful info for the developers. So why are you crippling yourself by using PR2?

PR2 is cool, but it's a packaged beta, and it's already old code.

You can prepare useful reports on reproducible bugs. Get the latest binary, check if the problem still exists, then report it straight to the developers.

Seriously. You don't need to put Some Faceless Corp between you and the coders anymore. You've got a direct line!

Have fun,
Dave

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