Domain: neo-layout.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to neo-layout.org.
Comments · 24
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Re:The NEO layout is a cult?
Or is this the noob/leet version of the Dunning-Kruger effect, where you falsely assume I'm an iTard, when really, you're the loser who's still using QWERTY and ASCII.
Well, let me blow your mind: https://neo-layout.org/
Well, that's good if you're German I guess.
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The NEO layout is a cult?
Or is this the noob/leet version of the Dunning-Kruger effect, where you falsely assume I'm an iTard, when really, you're the loser who's still using QWERTY and ASCII.
Well, let me blow your mind: https://neo-layout.org/
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Re:What do you mean, “substitute”?
Thankfully, there are vastly better keyboard layouts nowadays.
Cool. Can I get that for my M?
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What do you mean, “substitute”?
Your “curly apostrophe” is the correct apostrophe, and the “ ' ” is merely a substitute character for the limited abilities of keyboard layouts of the ’90s. The 1890s, to be exact
Thankfully, there are vastly better keyboard layouts nowadays.
I would say, “The ’90s called”, but that meme was already outdated in the ‘90s.
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Re:Since when is a proper keyboard layout an iGadg
NEO layout is Germany's Dvorak, but much better, and much more powerful.
Doesn't mean everyone who's not using ASCII like an American (and ONLY an American) from the 80s is an iTard.
Why you would defend a site, whose operators are so debilitatingly incompetent, that they can't even implement UTF-8 with a code block / code point whitelist, like every sane person since the early 2000s, is a riddle to me.
Found the German iTard.
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Since when is a proper keyboard layout an iGadget?
NEO layout is Germany's Dvorak, but much better, and much more powerful.
Doesn't mean everyone who's not using ASCII like an American (and ONLY an American) from the 80s is an iTard.
Why you would defend a site, whose operators are so debilitatingly incompetent, that they can't even implement UTF-8 with a code block / code point whitelist, like every sane person since the early 2000s, is a riddle to me.
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Re:"Despite" his geek status??
s/OTP/OTR/
Blame my new German geek keyboard layout and keyboard.
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Re:Huh.
Both the tool and you, make a (I assume wilfully) massively ignorant assumption: You assume ASCII or any similar 8 bit character set and matching keyboard.
Except for the US maybe, we all have Unicode with 110182(!) characters. Not 255. Let alone 127.I just add a random true math symbol, double arrow or something in there (let alone a re-mapped skull and crossbones), and voila, it turns out your pseudo-argument is ignorant nonsense.
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Re:This is why you use encryption programs...
I don't know where your delusion of 70 "typable" keys comes from. Maybe from being egocentric, and thinking ASCII-only. PROTIP: http://www.neo-layout.org/
Good luck scanning through way more Unicode key combinations
Also: what stops a hacker from trying out passwords on the keyfile instead of the encrypted file?
It's an example to demonstrate how much more limited the typable keyspace is than an unconstrained binary keyspace, nothing more. I think you're quite out of line throwing words like "egocentric" around because an arbitrary example used QWERTY/ASCII.
However, say you did have 1024 typable characters. A random 10-character password with such a keyboard layout would yield only about (at most) 1024 ^ 10 = possible combinations, still well short of the example binary keyspace.
We're getting a bit off-topic, but if anyone's interested, more information on a method of deriving keys from passwords can be found here. Notice how part of the process cycles over and over again to increase the computing time required to exhaust the keyspace. If you cycle 10,000 times, the decryptor only has to perform 10,000 operations, but a brute-force technique has to perform 10,000 operations for every password attempt, greatly increasing the CPU time required for each attempt. This is an attempt to compensate for the different in keyspace sizes by increasing CPU time outside of the cryptographic algorithm.
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Re:This is why you use encryption programs...
I don't know where your delusion of 70 "typable" keys comes from. Maybe from being egocentric, and thinking ASCII-only.
PROTIP: http://www.neo-layout.org/Good luck scanning through way more Unicode key combinations
Also: what stops a hacker from trying out passwords on the keyfile instead of the encrypted file?
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Re:And nothing could possibly go wrong...
Surely you mean Chuck Norris! Who will kill Bruce Willis with his patented two-point roundhouse stare of death.
By the way: Why do I always have the exact same typo, where I type “Chick Norris” instead of “Chuck Norris”? (Non-standard layout here!)
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Re:Dvorak
I disagree. I lost the hang of it. I’m back to the circling vulture technique.
But NEO 2.0 is notably very different from qwertz (the German qwerty). It has 6 levels. With caps lock being the left Mod3 key, etc.
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Why do you listen to what you "should"?
(such as not using my little and ring fingers when I really should)
No, that is an error of the layout! Your rind and little finger are weaker. Basically your little finger is just an outreaching touch sensor, and not meant for grabbing. Especially not on such an incredibly convoluted and stupid layout as the default one. And I’m not talking about the position of the letters, but about the shape and layout of the physical keys!
If you want to make it a bit better, I recommend this keyboard (if it’s still sold): http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_base.html
I had it, and it was the best keyboard I ever had. Like an IBM one, but ergonomic. Not that fake-“ergonomic” style that e.g. Microsoft uses. Look at the upper outside keys (those for the smaller fingers). They are wider, and easier to press. Also the columns are exactly aligned. Not slanted. And you raise the front, not the back. So it’s really nice. (I recommend buying the black USB variant.)Why do I tell you this? Simple: Because the new layout forces you to re-learn touch-typing. In which case you can learn it properly and comfortably right from the start.
:)But a note: Even those keyboards are not perfect, since you still have to raise your elbows to type in that V shape. (Much better than default keyboards though!) So you will get a bit of strain in your shoulders.
The only way around that, that I know, is using two Datahands, mounted right on the chair. But it looks like they aren’t sold anymore. Also the last time I checked, they were at $700 per hand!About Dvorak: Go for it!
I doesn’t even come close to our German version of an alternative layout (NEO 2.0), which has 6 levels, but it’s still much better than the default one.
I just left the default key stickers on my keyboard when learning NEO. Which made it impossible to look on the keys, and so I learned touch-typing much quicker. :) -
Re:On units and their prefixes
There are some HTML entities that work. — = [—], ” = [”], “ = [“], ‘ = [‘], ’ = [’], and so on. But I don’t know which ones are allowed, and which ones not. … for example, is not allowed: []. Even hexadecimal ones only work when allowed as normal entities.
I haven’t found much use for others here. Although I wish, mathematical symbols would work. As I have a ton of them on my keyboard layout. -
Re:Obligatory Dvorak advocacy
For German users, I recommend the even much better NEO 2.0 layout:
http://www.neo-layout.org/
I’m using it for a couple of years now, and love it. It’ just a sad state of Slashdot, that it does not support proper Unicode.Also, for WSAD... Is there a OS out there without a layout switcher?
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Re:Slow QWERTY typer
Qwerty is for pussies! (Dvorak too.)
Real men have XVLCWK layouts with 6 shift levels trough 3 mod keys:
http://www.neo-layout.org/ (And it seems they have to be German. ^^)Ok, real men use this: http://www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm
Mounted to this: http://rhythmemotion.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/photo0090.jpgBut I guess real men would use a Matrix headjack BCI chair.
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Re:Password strength vs. how often you change it
That’s why I chose “visual pattern” passwords. I draw symbols on the keyboard, e.g. while holding Mod3. (NEO layout. Hover the mouse above “Ebene 3”.)
Like a N. Which results in “#\.../|{[” or “#u...1_a~e]4” (where ... is one character […], that Slashdot does not accept.)(This is an example. The real type of pattern I use is something different.
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Re:Caps Lock Key
It’s a nice big key.
That is why it’s mapped on Mod3 in the German NEO layout.
(Caps Lock is still available by pressing the right Mod3 key when the left one is pressed.) -
But NOT Qwety, and NOT on "normal" keyboards!
I don't want their hands to be crippled before they start their first job!
I wouldn't accept anything less than this: http://www.datahand.com/products/proii.htm
With a adapted proper layout like DVORAK, or for German keyboards NEO ( http://www.neo-layout.org/ Because compared to this, DVORAK looks like a bad joke of inside-the-box thinking ^^). -
Re:Caps lock will be the end of unintended shoutin
No. It shoud be, and here actually is, MOD3. (Hover over the "Ebene 1-6" buttons, to see more.)
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Re:WASD customization
Exactly. I use the German NEO 2.0 layout. Which is much much better than Dvorak. With 6 shift levels. (Seriously!) And my QWERTY-line goes XVLCWK.
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Re:159357 popular with lefties?
But for that, you first have to *find* the letters "qwerty", and maybe even "http://google.com" (because IE does not automatically add the http) first.
Good luck, finding them on MY keyboard: http://www.neo-layout.org/
Hint 1: The letters printed on my keys have no relation to the actual layout.
Hint 2: "Ebene" means "level". So: Yes, that thing has 6 levels. (7 actually) -
Re:i like dvorak but stick with the standard qwert
One more thing: It doesn't matter whether Y is a vowel or not; it simply doesn't occur that often in some languages. For example, it's actually the third least common letter in the German alphabet, before X and Q. (Source: Wikipedia citing Albrecht Beutelspacher, Kryptologie, 7th edition, ISBN 3-8348-0014-7, p. 10) Having it smack dab in the middle of the keyboard is pretty useless - observe the German standard layout, where the Y and Z keys have been switched.
For comparison, in English the Y appears almost 500 times as often as in German (1.974% vs. 0.04% of the alphabet) whereas the Z is more common in German (1.13% vs. 0.074%).
The Dvorak layout simply doesn't work that well for non-English languages, hence localized (and even more obscure) layouts like NEO have been created. -
Re:Dvorak?
The point of dvorak is not typing speed, but keeping your hands on the home row as much as possible. I typed on Dvorak exclusively the last few years, it's made my wrists feel a lot better. But I don't type faster, perhaps a bit more accurate.
Also, with the ease of changing it in most OSes, I don't think it's anything but personal choice anymore.
If you want something that may be better, try the Neo layout though. It's for the german language, but it may be good for english as well:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEO-TastaturbelegungI would think, in the future, typing becomes less important anyway. Sorry about the neo links, there used to be good mathematical analysis in english, but it seems the entire site it was on is away. However, it seems to have gained a lot of traction in the German speaking world considering it had next to nothing on the web about it just several years back and was invented in the 2000s.