Slashdot Mirror
Lenovo Tinkers With Larger Delete and Escape Keys
Slatterz writes "After a year's research, Lenovo boffins have decided the time is right to install larger Delete and Escape keys on their updated ThinkPad laptop T400s range. While it is a small change, it is fairly radical to tinker with an area of hardware which has been largely unchanged since the 19th century. What convinced them to make the size-change was doing some tests on users to see which keys they use the most. They found that on average, people used the Escape and Delete keys 700 times per week, yet those were the only non-letter keys that Lenovo hasn't made any bigger." The article says Caps Lock may be next on the agenda; death is too good for Caps Lock.
Get rid of the keyboard entirely. I'm fucking sick of it. Why don't we have shapeshifting touch screens yet? Yes, I'm impatient.
Pfft. Deletee kye? I never usses taht aneemore.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
and, more importantly, reduce calls during your off hours because a user locked out his/her account due to CAPS LOCK being on when entering a password.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
Where's the article? I clicked on the link, and it's barely longer than the summary.
There's so much they could have elaborated on, like the "years of research", and what the hell they mean by "those were the only non-letter keys that Lenovo hasn't made any bigger." (Because I highly doubt they've made PrintScreen any bigger)
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
They should think of something to make mistyping harder.
I am happy to see some thought go in to "routine" matters like this -- too often I feel that laptop keyboards have abominable designs, such as shrunken space bars and control keys, miniscule arrow keys, or nonstandard placement of arrow keys, etc.
However, I would say the esc enlargement on my Lenovo is unneeded -- its location above the other keys means it is struck accurately. I would venture to say the same for the delete key, which I could locate with my eyes closed by its characteristic placement. I think the aesthetics of the vertical extension of these keys is going to be negative.
For my money, I wish they would just lay off the IBM keyboard design. Thinkpads should not have a Windows key. :)
Slashdotter, ID #101. UIDs are in binary, right?
I wasn't aware there were keyboards in the 19th century...
Lenovo has adware in their updates, but they might sell a laptop without a caps lock key! It's like they're simultaneously the worst and best computer company at the same time.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
I'm using a Dragon 32, you insenstive clod
Yep, the key to the left of "A" should be Ctrl. That is one think about the OLPC XO-1 keyboard I like. The actual keys are crap, though.
They had laptops or typewriters with function and modifier keys in the 19th century?
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
Show me a keyboard that even HAD the Delete or Escape keys, idiot. Hell, when I learned to type, you had to use a lowercase L for the digit 1, and a capital O for the digit zero. Exclamation point was "apostrophe, backspace, period."
[
The article says Caps Lock may be next on the agenda; death is too good for Caps Lock.
If Lenovo is going to do it - Caps Lock will die a death and no one will notice. It is better for the industry to let Apple do what it does best and let the Caps lock die at Apple's hand. They will sell a iCapsLock add-on for $30 to stir up things even further and the caps lock death will then be rightly celebrated by the loads of forum posts and bickering by people newly realizing how much they miss the Caps lock now that it is gone.
is cruise control for cool
I would like a bigger enter too, made so it takes more "vertical" space (somewhat relocating the \ key) like on some European keyboard layouts.
Control instead of CapsLock? And just when most people have gotten used to the current placement. :-) Then does CapsLock get demoted to Fn-(Right)Shift?
"...They found that on average, people used the Escape and Delete keys 700 times per week..."
are meaningless unless they (Lenovo) tell us what type of keyboard layout the tested computers had or even what applications people used. By the way, who constituted what they refer to as "people?"
delete key? where is that on my keyboard?
I'm sure I'm not the only person on slashdot to own this fine keyboard, with it's double-sized delete key. Although, the escape key is standard sized.
Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
How else would they use vi and emacs?
Sam ty sig.
I can't use a laptop keyboard to near my regular level of productivity. I only have to use a laptop for work from time to time and whenever I do I always plug in a regular sized keyboard if one is available.
The laptop keys don't have the same feel, some are in strange places, no regular number pad. Less lack of division between the keys, regular keyboards have that nice gap between the tops of the keys.
Making the Esc and Del keys bigger is a good idea in my view but it still isn't going to get me to use a laptop keyboard unless I'm forced to.
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
NOBODY, absolutely NO one can improve on the IBM Model M. It is the absolute epitome of our technological renaissance, the baine of my roommate and simply the cats meow.
They had laptops or typewriters with function and modifier keys in the 19th century?
Yeah, of course!
What do you think Ada Lovelace, the first programmer, used to code with?
I am anarch of all I survey.
...but after years, I finally noticed a really small Delete key hidden on this keyboard! I was so overjoyed that I had to test it out.
I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar...
-Lucy-
So let me get this straight.
The best way to improve keying accuracy is to create even more derivative keyboard layouts?
I'd guess the del key might even afford to be *smaller* as it is used more often and hence more easily remembered.
I would have had a bit more sympathy if the article had said they'd placed it in a more accessible location ala space bar (rather than off to one side of the main keymap).
Maybe they could create a "Lenovo" key to sit between the "Windows" key and a new "Dave was here!" key. Then I can loan them my 16 button hexdecimal mouse[1].
Xix.
[1] Otherwise known as a digitizing puck
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
I've got a couple Goldtouch keyboards that have a great improvement: extra Delete and Backspace keys on the left hand side of the keyboard. It's very helpful when you've got your right hand on the mouse.
Also, Goldtouch moved the Windows and Right Click/Context Menu keys off of the main area into a separate space. Both of these are great improvements.
Your design to a real part online: Big Blue Saw
I'm not aware of many keyboards from the 19th century. Sure, the QWERTY layout came about at the end of the 19th century, but was used on typewriters as best I know.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Lenovo boffins have decided the time is right to install larger Delete and Escape keys on their updated ThinkPad laptop T400s range. While it is a small change, it is fairly radical to tinker with an area of hardware which has been largely unchanged since the 19th century.
So can someone provide a list of 19th-century keyboards (i.e., typewriters) that had Delete or Escape keys?
Inquiring minds want to know about this bit of history ...
(I've long wanted a bigger ESC key that's easier to hit, and I suppose most vi users would say the same thing. ;-)
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Actually, I was thinking just the other day that I hardly ever use the escape key. It just doesn't come up as a useful or needed key very much. Even for some in-game menus, I usually hit the Cancel or X buttons with my mouse before even thinking about using the escape key.
Forget the bigger delete key, I don't make mistakes.
Bigger escape key, sure. Help counter other people's mistakes. :P
...they would make the Any key bigger :(
-- The Genesis project? What's that?
they could also add they letters "ANY" to the space bar. Help desks the world over will be eternally grateful
Tech Support: "No, sir...clicking on 'Remember Password' will NOT help you remember your password."
New, Windows 7 + Lenovo! Now you can ctrl+alt+del at half the speed of Vista!
Here's a better idea Lenovo: enlarge the: U, O, Y, K, C, U, F keys. ;)
Whenever the keyboard is in a locking mode, or in insert mode, there should be an LED reminding the user of that.
Yeah, it costs a bit more, and I realize it may not be as easy as it sounds b/c of the keyboard driver, but that's one of the ways you get your product line out of the commodity end of the market.
Ahem. We still have 26 alpha and 10 numeric but about everything else has changed. Frequently. More like "largely unchanged since the 19th of June".
Not the current metal ones, but the plastic ones before. Huge escape key.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Classic
Yes, there's oodles of room for real improvements.
I love Sun Type5 keybards because the cut/paste & front/back keys is on the left hand side of the keyboard. Ditto super handy when your right hand is on the mouse.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
let's set so double the killer delete select all
For Microsoft operating systems, the most common is Ctrl-Alt-Delete ;-)
Table-ized A.I.
Um, punch cards? Switches? Vacuum tubes?
The CB App. What's your 20?
Of course they did! How else do you think they were able to write the stories about how Ford started mass-producing flying horseless carriages or the first Montgolfier balloon to actually circumnavigate the moon. My great-great-grandparents watched it as it happened on their coal-powered TeleStereopticon. If you don't believe it, you can always search for the story on the aethernet with your Difference Engine. Just goolgol for it.
I use my caps lock key when I enter (into my accounting system) the description of parts purchased at Fry's Electronics, which are often WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS.
Lenovo has boffins? What the heck are they, creatures from Lord of the Rings? Some kind of exotic bird? Wait, the dictionary says it's BRITISH SLANG. Well, you can just keep your esoteric BRITISH SLANG over there on your little island, buster, because we don't need no stinking BRITISH SLANG over here in America, or the rest of the world for that matter. If you can't write in standard English so English speakers around the world can understand it, just press your DELETE key (no matter what size it is) and go do something else. *grumble* damned Recoats *grumble*
Yep, the key to the left of "A" should be Ctrl.
Why? Because some obsolete VT-52 or obscure Wyse terminal had it there? What are you going to do with the right ctrl key if you move the left one above the shift key? Place it above the right shift key where the enter key is? Or perhaps you'd leave the right ctrl key where it is and have an asymmetric modifier key layout?
No, the real problem with keyboards is the NumLock key. The number keys and cursor control keys should never have been allowed to mix.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
This has to be the biggest upgrade to PC usability since PC 97 added colour coding the mouse and keyboard connectors. Well done.
> The article says Caps Lock may be next on the agenda; death is too good for Caps Lock.
Unicomp bought and still run the original IBM keyboard factory in the US. They've been offering a variant with a demoted-CAPSLOCK key and a bigger control key in its place for Linux heads: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/linux101.html
This is the original buckling spring keyboard - the one with the glorious clickety-click sound as you type. They also offer the original keyboard (with the big CAPSLOCK key) too: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html
I want to know just whose idea it was to put a CAPSLOCK key on the keyboard in the first place. I want to know the name and face of the IBM Engineer who did it. They can join MSDOS's Tim Paterson's '\' vs '/' in the Hall of Shame for the stupidest decisions with the most hurt in computing history.
why did you mention the U key twice? and yes, I get your joke.
I.O.U One Sig.
Maybe I didn't use it enough, but I always had trouble typing on one of those SUN keyboards with a few crucial keys in different places. That, and certain case-sensitive programming languages or database data has legitimate use for long sequences of all-caps strings, often broken up by underscores. I would miss the caps lock if it were totally gone, but I certainly wouldn't miss mistaking it for tab or lshift. Can we move it to main function for Scroll Lock instead, and make Scroll Lock an alternate function? I don't know what I'd want in its place, because for Windows typing, the common CTRL functions (X,S,V,C) are all easiest as LCTRL chords, and anchoring your left pinky to where Caps lock is to type these I think feels unnatural. Never mind the loss of symmetry in the three-fingered salute!
it is fairly radical to tinker with an area of hardware which has been largely unchanged since the 19th century
What I find to be "radical" is that we still insist on using the QWERTY layout when it is well-known to be inefficient.
Us vi users probably use the ESC key 700 times per hour.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Caps-lock is handy on occasion - it's just the implementation that's flawed on modern keyboards. Bring back the system where you held SHIFT then pressed LOCK, a-la 19th century typewriters through to some very early personal computers, and you can have the feature without the pain of accidental shouting and messed-up passwords.
I have a Lenovo T400 and the placement of the DEL key always annoyed me. I use a program called KeyTweak (http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick/) to remap my lenovo keyboard as follows:
Right CTRL key is DEL
Those silly keys to the right and left of the up arrow are HOME and END
And finally, drum roll please... the CAPS key is mapped to the TAB key so I have a gigantic space to mash my chubby fingers when looking for a tab stop!
I don't care much about the Delete and Escape key changes mentioned in TFA... but I think the article's author gives a glimpse of tech-naivete' by suggesting that the Caps Lock key is obsolete. Just because he doesn't see a reason for Caps Lock out there in his little business world doesn't mean the key isn't highly useful to application developers. I'll point out SQL capitalization standards as just one example.
DELETE FROM my.memory WHERE opinion = his
/
COMMIT
Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
I don't remember the last time I used numlock, let alone numkeys themselves. To me, they are just a blot on a few of the keys.
CAPSLOCK is the single most useless key and putting ESC or any other key for that matter, would not only improve the vi experience, but would be the most rational thing to do. Seriously, who ever uses that?
There were keyboards in the 19th century??
That damn numlock key has been about the worst. I hated it back in 1981, along with the misplaced and misshapen key, the backslash between the Z and the left shift key, and the strangely shrunken backspace key--but at least IBM corrected those other mistakes as they went along. Not the numlock though. That's a key that should have never existed. Almost every other computer back then had separate numeric and cursor keys--why not IBM? I had to write a TSR to remap the keyboard before I could consider it usable.
How about putting the escape key in a normal place, like left of F1, not above it? My thinkpad and most of the others I've seen are as such. Or are you saying I shouldn't use vim?
More like pen and paper.
Le français vous intéresse?
AKA ITRON Scorpius m1. Was a whole $12-14 when I got it in 2005. By far one of my favorite keyboards. The Delete key doesn't need to be twice as big to locate easily. It's right beside the Enter Key, not raised above on the vertical or below. Light-weight and easy to type on - with just enough key resistance. http://www.ione-europe.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,8/category_id,8/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,1/
The original function of Caps Lock is nuisance. If you are on Windows you can set Caps Lock to do an actually useful thing which makes your life a whole lot easier:
http://lifehacker.com/5278802/iswitchw-finds-windows-as-you-type
Good for Apple.
The solution is not to make the key bigger, it's to ditch it.
I'm all for getting rid of insert, delete, home, and end.
Do you use your scroll lock and break key? Lose them, too.
How many function keys do you really need? TWELVE?!?!
We should push way back to the original IBM selectric keyboard which was actually good for typing, and scrap everything that came with the IBM PC keyboard.
Old CP/M, Z-80 based Kaypros had a dynamite keyboard.
We still need to nix the caps lock key, of course.
KeyTronic gives the Model-M a run for its money.
Especially the KT-800P2 http://www.keytronicems.com/home/shop/shop.asp?h_ck=THS859
Or perhaps you'd leave the right ctrl key where it is and have an asymmetric modifier key layout?
As someone who maps caps to ctrl, yes. What's so wrong about it being asymmetrical? I at least had absolutely no difficulty with adjusting to that ctrl location -- the only problems was adjusting BACK when I used a computer without that.
I'm using a Dragon 32, you insenstive clod
I've been collecting vintage computer hardware for the last few months, and I gotta say, my Tandy CoCo3 (128K version) has by _far_ the best keyboard of any of the 8 or 16-bit machines I've used. I never used one back in the day, so the mint condition one I just got last month _really_ surprised me with the keyboard feel. I also got a Tandy 102 that was still in its unopened box. :)
Back to the subject of keyboards, though, to say noone has been messing with the layout of keys is to be completely unaware of computers of the last several years. Certainly there's a small player in the industry called 'Microsoft' that has been making some fairly commonly found keyboards that have the keys normally found above the arrow keys to be arranged in strange and remarkably unpleasant ways. I'm pleased to say the latest entry in their 'Natural' line has returned those keys to the proper position - the MS Natural 4000 keyboard not only unbreaks the keyboard layout changes they made in previous keyboards, but also returns the tilt to the correct location - the front, not the back (which actually makes things WORSE ergonomically). Plus it's available in beautiful, beautiful black. :)
On behalf of myself and all the other forum junkies can we please get a larger, ruggedized F5 key?
Maybe I didn't use it enough, but I always had trouble typing on one of those SUN keyboards with a few crucial keys in different places.
Sun does a couple other dumb things though, like make backspace 5 times harder to hit.
The ctrl-caps switch is really the only thing right about those keyboards.
I don't know what I'd want in its place, because for Windows typing, the common CTRL functions (X,S,V,C) are all easiest as LCTRL chords, and anchoring your left pinky to where Caps lock is to type these I think feels unnatural.
See, I disagree. After getting over the "wtf" moment with the Sun keyboard that introduced me to the ctrl-caps thing, that position felt like the most natural thing in the world. (Interestingly, the ergonomically split keyboard was much the same.)
You could also rig it up so there are TWO left ctrl keys, at least until people get used to the new location.
Here's a better idea Lenovo: enlarge the: U, O, Y, K, C, U, F keys. ;)
There's pills for that.
ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
Thanks, nobody uses a computer for drafting. I can't see any reason to keep a key THAT I USE EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR HOURS ON END.
I meant to shout that last bit.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
Especially in the case of the Esc key, the size doesn't really matter. My fingers know that Esc is the upper-leftmost button. If my finger feels another button further left or further up, I know there's a problem. The Esc key could be half the size, and it wouldn't make a bit of a difference.
I can understand changing the Delete key though, because it's so close to the enormous Enter key*. Anytime you're trying to press "delete," "enter" is probably the last key in the world that you want to press. I can't count how many times I've been talking to somebody on AIM/MSN, typed something I didn't actually want to say, then accidentally pressed "return" instead of "delete"
*I use a Mac
Numlock, arrow keys, Alt, Control, Windows/Apple, f1 - f12, page up, page down, scroll lock, insert, home, end, Fn... etc, etc
The statement about the 19th century is a load of shit. I remember a wide variety of keyboards from the 1980s. Slightly increasing the size of the escape and delete keys is nothing compared to, for example, adding a numpad or adding a green "copy" key. What about those ergonomic split keyboards? Surely that would be a larger change to the nineteenth century design than making a couple of easy to find keys a bit bigger.
The summary is stupid, an insult to our collective intelligence. There is no news here, no stuff that matters. It is simply slashvertising for Lenovo about something which really isn't all that interesting.
I don't therefore I'm not.
I agree about NumLock, except of course in the case where there's not room for a navigation block. I keep NumLock off when navigating web pages, because the numpad puts all the navigation keys in reach without moving my hand. I hardly think that's a pressing enough use to justify the feature. Software is, of course, perfectly capable of ignoring NumLock. IIRC Plan 9 always keeps the NumLock LED lit and treats those keys as number keys.
aren't people ;)
The Fn key in place of the Ctrl key took me months to get used to. I'm not buying more changes!
Apparently the next keyboard evolution could be the death of the caps lock
I hope not. The key is incredibly useful... for remapping to some other function.
My Thinkpad requires an additional, conscious effort to make it to Esc.
Whenever GNOME is involved, I have to disable F1 or remap to Esc, because where my pinky lands on the T43 roughly equals the location of Esc on a corporate-issue Dell keyboard, my Keytronics or Apple USB keyboard.
I am extremely glad for the change, and can't wait to pick up a new gig so I can pick up a new Thinkpad..
If they enlarge the S, I, N, E, P keys maybe I'll get half less spam.
wot? they had esc and del keys in the 19th century? surely you jest?
There was an unknown error in the submission.
From TFA:
it is fairly radical to tinker with an area of hardware which has been largely unchanged since the 19th century.
Yeah. Typing those escape sequences back in the 1800's was a real bother.
Have gnu, will travel.
On some keyboards, such as my MacBook, the backspace key is actually labeled as the delete key
Off with your head, the Mac keyboard "delete" works as Richard Stallman intended it to work!
(I don't particularly have a problem with it, the only issue I've ever had is when remote logging into Solaris boxes for whatever reason).
Eh? If you're talking about the insert/home/end group of keys then I liked the positioning on those old natural keyboards. They are still available on newegg, and yes, they only come in white.
Screw the esc and delete. Get that stupid function key out of the prime real estate in the bottom left and put the control key where it rightly belongs.
I use ctrl a lot more than escape.
If you're going to spam with non-ASCII characters, at least do it right.
Doofus.
so that when I'm on a keyboard I can't remap easily (which invariably does not have Emacs) I don't go hitting the caps lock key constantly.
Yeah. By far the #1 reason for Steve-based profanity in the workplace, quickly followed by, "you type the command in".
My fingers are hardcoded to emacs-style editing keys and when I have that (thank you Apple!) I can type very fast. I can be faster on Linux with Hyper & Super keys, but I haven't made those keys work in zsh, nor do I think I can make them work on my Macbook Pro.
Hmm, two people missing the joke in a row. I wonder what the record is.
Maybe I'm just confused here, but what keyboards did we have in the 19th century that had backspace keys? Or does some idiot not know that the 1900's were the 20th century ?
Clearly GP wanted two Us on his keyboard.
and, more importantly, reduce calls during your off hours because a user locked out his/her account due to CAPS LOCK being on when entering a password.
Here's a nickel, kid. Go get yourself a real operating system. One whose password fields pop up a little icon to indicate that Caps Lock is active.
-- supercilious Mac user
This information is a reality-subliminal, LENOVA = The New (you), DELETE (your porn) and ESCAPE(the consequences)
SIGS ARE PRETENTIOUS
I use Caps Lock all the time.
Backspace enlargement? Maybe you could just make some software that would know when you were hitting backslash instead of backspace. That would be helpful in word processors and things.
As for the Esc key, I thought it was only used in movies.
If Lenovo was going to fix _one thing_ I wish they would move the placement of the forward and backward navigation keys from near the arrow keys. My Thinkpad x61 has the keys to navigate forward and backward in a browser right next to the arrow keys, so when I'm typing up a form (for example /.) and I want to move from one portion of my text to the other, I'll press the arrow keys. Only problem is that every once in a while, I'll miss and instead of hitting a back arrow, I'll hit the backward navigation key. My browser will go back, and my form will be wiped - drives me nuts!
I can't be the only person this has happened to...
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
I am happy to see some thought go in to "routine" matters like this -- too often I feel that laptop keyboards have abominable designs, such as shrunken space bars and control keys, miniscule arrow keys, or nonstandard placement of arrow keys, etc. However, I would say the esc enlargement on my Lenovo is unneeded -- its location above the other keys means it is struck accurately. I would venture to say the same for the delete key, which I could locate with my eyes closed by its characteristic placement. I think the aesthetics of the vertical extension of these keys is going to be negative. For my money, I wish they would just lay off the IBM keyboard design. Thinkpads should not have a Windows key. :)
Eye Glasses
Because it's NATURAL to have CTRL there. Jesus used CTRL that was left from A.
It hurts to hunt CTRL from the fucking corner. Better have both. Capslock is useless, either kill the fucker or hide it behinf FN-this or that.
I have capslock mapped as CTRL on my ubuntu boxes and on my mac - matter of clicketi-click via preferences.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
I used to do that. It gave me a pretty bad RSI (fingers and arms hurting day and night, even after quitting keyboarding for a week) when I switched from single-tasking DOS to multi-tasking Linux. I then switched caps and control and moved to Dvorak layout, which did improve things for me.
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
Caps lock has some usefulness for users with non-US keyboards who can’t obtain the uppercase variant of some letters because shift-typing that letter will give them a different letter. It’s easier to use than “compose”.
and, more importantly, reduce calls during your off hours because a user locked out his/her account due to CAPS LOCK being on when entering a password.
IT IS SO MUCH EASIER TO WRITE THIS WAY
If anything, they should change the caps lock to a compose key. That way you can recycle the led to indicate the compose is on.
assuming that the numeric keypad will always be over cursor control keys needs to die: compact keyboard layouts like the Happy Hacker and every laptop ever made puts the numeric keypad over the alphanumeric keyboard, and Ghod help you if you have NumLock on by default!
Furries make the internet go.
and, more importantly, reduce calls during your off hours because a user locked out his/her account due to CAPS LOCK being on when entering a password.
Give them Vista - it helpfully warns with "OMG WTF CAPS LOCK!!!" at login screen when it sees it on.
Then again, when the user cannot login, that's 1 problem. Once they can, be sure that there will be many more - so why call it upon yourself?
Because you use CTRL a lot more than CAPS and it strains your pinky a lot less if they switch places.
Would be to kill finally the caps lock key and replace it with a hard to reach key combination!
I dont know how many times I fell over the caps lock key in my life.
They all do. All the major desktop OSs have done so for at least a decade.
I'm amazed that no one has commented on the assertion in the story that the Escape and Delete keys have been in use since the "19th" century. I'm pretty sure that they weren't in use until the later half of the "20th" century.
I'll agree with you there. I was a CoCo user for most of my formative childhood, and I was sad to see the line die off. Great keyboard. I still have some mental adjustments when I switch between it and a PC, though. Shift-2 being " and the oddball shift-@ pause function.
Using vim on a Mac keyboard is a pain exactly because the ESC-key is so small.
I'd say that in vim the single most used key is ESC!
Ugh, you're kidding, right? Clear where left arrow (backspace) should be? Backspace right next to (reduced in size) enter key?! No, the CoCo 3 layout is pretty awful. I like that they added a real control key (in the right place, but presumably only useful in OS-9 or with a terminal emulator), but the placement of some of the others is just wrong.
Even lacking a control key, the old CoCo 2 layout is better - and the Dragon keyboard is even nicer to type on: better quality keyboard, CoCo 2 layout.
I'm typing this on a T400 and I'm glad to hear that they have fixed the escape key. On my kbd it's above the F1 key and I am tired of seeing the Firefox help page!
the size and the placement of theses keys annoyed me too long
Sun does a couple other dumb things though, like make backspace 5 times harder to hit.
That's OK, the last time I used a sun workstation, pressing backspace just made ^H appear anyway.
really? Is it the delete key or is it the backspace key that is used most?
Personally, I mostly use the backspace key in favour of the delete key - I think because that's the one that's closer to normal typing keys.
From personal experience of typing (being a software developer, my life has been on computers for over 15 yrs) - I notice I prefer to backspace over other key combinations.
Deleting "prefer to" I would backspace X 9, to replace with "'would rather" instead of [ctrl][shift][left,left][backspace]... but maybe that's just me...
I;'d[backspaceX3]'d be interested n[backspace]knowing who the users were[backspaceX4]are.
blog.idigitall.com
This blog post has actual footage of the new keyboard:
http://lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/?p=1489
No, because that is where all *computer* keyboards had it. This 'shift lock' nonsense only came about when they tried to mimic typewriters. Caps lock serves *no* good purpose and should be ditched, or at least relegated to somewhere away from the useful keys. And who the hell needs an extra 'right' control key anyway? Why is it even there? There was never one on any original *computer* keyboard. If a keyboard has this stupid 'shift (caps) lock' key to the left of A, its a *typewriter keyboard* layout, NOT a computer keyboard layout.
As for num lock, I routinely set the CMOS on any machine I use to force it *off*. And I never use it - there's a perfectly good set of numbers right above the QWERTY.
But, god, please don't destroy any more wonderful Apple Extended Keyboards to make ominous story photos.
Caps Lock is the most useful key on the keyboard. Any subvert who wants me to hold down shift while I type a long CAPITALISED_IDENTIFIER is going to have to prize Caps Lock from under my cold dead little finger.
I'm not sure how Windows does it, but OS X shows a little "Caps Lock" symbol inside the password input field whenever caps lock is on to prevent exactly that.
my keyboard only has one backspace key, yet it doesnt feel like there should be one on the other side in any way whatsoever. my keyboard has a ctrl next to 'a' and another some where on the right down the bottom. guess which one I've worn the text off and which one looks like a brand new key?
Here's a better idea Lenovo: enlarge the: U, O, Y, K, C, U, F keys. ;)
Let me guess...you're talking about the special edition 'youtube comment' keyboard?
Wow a Dragon 32. I'm so very envious!! You had real keys. My ZX81 didn't have any real keys. You lucky bastard!
vi requires modifier keys?
It's terribly annoying when a keyboard decides to place something else in the top-left corner.
My previous keyboard had a sleep button in that location. More than once I was playing some game, tried to hit Esc quickly without looking and ended up cursing when the computer entered sleep mode... At least it was configurable so I could then disable it...
Given that I use the keyboad asymmetrically anyway (my right hand is on my mouse), I don't see the problem. Perhaps alignment and symmetry are far more important to you than to me?
As a vim user, I have mapped Caps Lock to Escape. Works like a charm - in windows and in Linux.
Caps lock will be the end of unintended shouting
I would like you to meet my friend, Khassaki:
<Khassaki> HI EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!
<Judge-Mental> try pressing the the Caps Lock key
<Khassaki> O THANKS!!! ITS SO MUCH EASIER TO WRITE NOW!!!!!!!
<Judge-Mental> fuck me
(From http://www.bash.org/?835030)
What really annoys me about Thinkpad keyboards is the awkward placement of the fn key. It is placed where the left Ctrl key is normally placed and I can't get used to it because my other laptop uses the traditional placement. To add salt to the wound, KeyTweak and similar programs are no use because it seems that the fn key is mapped at some lower level and can't be changed.
No, the real problem with keyboards is the NumLock key.
Really? It's never a problem for me.
I think the really really real problems of keyboards are:
The Kinesis Ergo Elan keyboard fixes some of this. Do yourself a big favor and get one.
(I'm not a paid shill, but a very happy customer.)
Here's a better idea - make the = and + key reverse, so that shift produces =, and pressing it normally makes +. This way it would be like the minus key.
Here's another idea. Have the parenthesis keys replace the less often used square brackets (and swap them, so that shift+9 is [ instead. Either that, or add more keys for the parenthesis symbols instead of using shift to get them.
Finally, even better than the above ideas, let's all have a keyboard where you can define what they keys are, like the new Optimus OLED keyboard.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
You have two U keys?
CAPS LOCK is handy for typing things such as CTRL[1]. It's also very handy when working in CAD, where all-caps is usually expected.
The delete key on the (Apple) keyboard in front of me is already nearly as big as the enter key; does it really need to be bigger? And while I do use the escape key with some frequency, I don't have any problems with missing it or hitting adjacent keys, so why does it need to be bigger?
Finally, I thought I'd comment directly to the PC Authority article. It says you need to login or register to comment, so I registered and logged in. The top bar on the site said I was logged in, but below the article it continued to tell me to login or register in order to comment. I just wanted to share my annoyance with that.
[1] Which is why I'm replying to this, instead of starting a new thread.
-Rich
While it is a small change, it is fairly radical to tinker with an area of hardware which has been largely unchanged since the 19th century.
Unchanged since the 19th century?? What a load of rubbish, keyboards are constantly being tinkered with, the trend seeming to be squeezing existing keys to make room for new keys.
What I'd like is a bigger return key, like when they used to be a big reverse L shape. Too many times I end a line like this#
because I've hit both keys at once
> While it is a small change, it is fairly radical to tinker with an area of hardware
> which has been largely unchanged since the 19th century.
Amazing. All those years using whiteout on typewriters when I could have been using the delete key that I didn't know was there.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
you said U twice, N, O, R, M
I thought he was talking more about this
Sun does a couple other dumb things though, like make backspace 5 times harder to hit.
How? I find it easier to hit, because it's closer. I search out and pay excessive amounts of money for Sun keyboards partly because of that feature. (It was a real problem, though, when I moved to Europe, and now I type "\" when I want enter and enter when I want backspace. But European keyboards are the stupidest things to walk the face of the planet, and no amount of "but we need to type ä and ç" justifies having keys you never use like # nearer/easier than keys you use multiple types a day like ß and Enter. And the shape/placement of the Enter key, have I complained about that yet? My god...)
Look out!
when pressing ctrl-alt-delete.
If I need to erase something I always use the backspace button which is already a big key.
I'm used to using an infowindow 5250 terminal connected to an AS/400 and my home computer's keyboard is the IBM clicky (without function keys up to 24)
It's about time they updated the hardware to handle all the deletes of Adware, CrapWare and other crap they not only ship with the box but now install as "updates."
Worst case, you will likely always be able to pull up a software keyboard and toggle it there.
(On windows, osk.exe)
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
The Mac has no NumLock - and guess what: I can still autorun in WoW.
Ummm. One of the beautiful things about vi is it does not require modifier keys to use it.
They had laptops or typewriters with function and modifier keys in the 19th century?
Indeed. I'm surprised an idiot article writer wrote that, more surprised that an idiot article submitter copied it, and completely unsurprised that an idiot Slashdot editor left it in. The keyboard has changed immensely since the 19th century. About the only things that haven't are the placement of the alphabetic keys and the offset alignment. And even those things have changed in non-US and specialist contexts often enough.
Aside from the presence of function and modifier keys, we have the massive change in semantics of capslock, shift, backspace and enter keys. We have the number pad. We have the insert etc. key block. We have the navigation keys. We have keyboards made out of radically different materials. A keyboard today would be recognisable to a 19th century typist or typewriter manufacturer, but they would still need to relearn how to use the thing and wouldn't follow you for five seconds when you described how they worked.
Look out!
Just because the CAPSLOCK key serves no good purpose for you doesn't mean it serves no good purpose for anybody. I use caps all the time when I'm preparing forms or other documents, saves me a lot of pain and grief from having to do the pinky-finger ballet (left-two-shift, right-two-shift). So, why should I suffer for your failure of imagination?
Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
Actually no! The Mac has no NumLock and autorun in WoW is done by the key above the 7 on numeric pad. In most games the physical position of the key is more important then what is printed on it's surface.
This doesn't sound like a good idea. The lusers I see confuse delete with backspace and ending up erasing what they didn't intend. This will only make matters worse.
here's how on wondows 2000/XP:
open regedt32 and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layout
then add a binary entry called Scancode Map with a value of 00000000 00000000 03000000 3A001D00 1D003A00 00000000
done.
on linux, KDE4 already have an option to swap ctrl and caps on the keyboard configuration.
What ? Me, worry ?
Oddly enough, Windows XP does that. I might have cursed the tiny keyboard that caused me to hit the CAPLOCK, but I WAS told about it by the OS.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Gotta say, I've got a MS Natural 4000 at work, and I haven't had any RSI since I started using it. And I've dealt with that for over 4 years now. Anybody looking for an Ergonomic Keyboard, this is a good one. Now, I just need to figure out how to make this little zoom wheel in the center scroll instead (come on Microsoft, that option should have been a no-brainer!).
... the backslash between the Z and the left shift key...
The numlock key is bad, but worse are the keys for the pipe symbol and the backslash. Every keyboard manufacturer seems to take perverse pleasure in hiding them in obscure locations on the keyboard. Keyboards that sneak an extra third key between the L and the enter key also irk me.
My current keyboard has a really annoying feature. They've moved the printscreen, scroll-lock, and pause/break keys and placed them in line with the top row number keys, adding them to the insert, delete block. They placed three new keys, WakeUp, Sleep, and Power, where the printscreen group used to be. Now whenever I switch between insert and overwrite mode I wind up hitting the printscreen by mistake.
Fortunately, this keyboard only cost $3, and it's going bye bye when I upgrade my computer later this year.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Don't look now, but I think there's some kids on your lawn.
It is standard practice to capitalize all text on engineering drawings.
I have a old R31 that I use for browsing and remote desktop. The fn key in the lower left hand corner drives me nuts because I hit it when I try to use ctrl. They eventually fixed it. The T500 at work have the fn and ctrl key flipped the right way. I don't know how much testing they do or if they just work off of customer complaints.
Why is NumLock hated? Most users seem to either leave it permanently on or off. It would be nice to allow a default when creating a new user account (my Solaris workstation defaults with NumLock off, Windows with it on). Still wouldn't say that it is a huge issue.
Heh, don't ruin the OP's image of a Victorian maiden sitting in front of a steampunk machine full of vaccum tubes, copper pipes, tesla coils... and a typewriter-style full action keyboard with a complete array of function and modifier keys...
No sig for the moment.
Every keyboard I've ever used has been different. I wish there was a spec, and it was tied to a circa 1997 Microsoft Natural keyboard.
I'm typing on a 4000 right now. So far, I like it, but the space bar seems a little stiff, which seems to be a common complaint. My only other complaint is that I wish the "zoom" slider in the middle was a scroll wheel (an older Logitech KB that I owned had one, which was nice). Strangely enough, the slider acts as a scroll which on most Windows applications thought it will randomly zoom or resize text; when I SSH/X to a Linux box, X apps zoom/resize text.
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
Because you use CTRL a lot more than CAPS and it strains your pinky a lot less if they switch places.
Nah, you just curl your pinky and use the pinky knuckle to hit the CTRL key. That's why it's on the corner of the keyboard.
What did they need delete and escape keys for in the 19th century?
How? I find it easier to hit, because it's closer.
Because it's smaller and doesn't have a big chunk of empty space above it.
Though actually I'm a bit surprised; I'm looking at images of the Sun keyboard, and it looks like the backspace key is sort of where I have my \ key. That's not where I was remembering it; I thought it was basically the left half of a "normal" backspace key (& the same size as most keys), then `~ was to the right of it.
The actual location is rather less stupid then I was thinking. That seems now like something you'd just get used to as opposed to a location that's fundamentially bad.
Use an all-caps face for text styles that need to be in all caps, and you won't have to type them in caps any more. In fact, I seem to dimly recall that it's a checkbox in autocad...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It's possible someone had remapped your Sun keyboard because they wanted backspace in a more normal location. `~ is after all in the same place you described, and the key sizes are all the same. I love my Sun keyboard and ancient type 5 mouse. (The mouse is ugly as fuck, but I find it more ergonomic than ergonomic mice because it has finger rests.)
Look out!
That's the double-U key you wanted enlarged, right?
It's possible someone had remapped your Sun keyboard because they wanted backspace in a more normal location.
Nearly positive that wasn't the case; it wasn't that the key that I thought should be backspace didn't behave as such or anything like that. I'm almost certainly just misremembering.
We obviously need a "frist psot!1" key. Why haven't we thought of this before?
Needs more British slang. Bonus points if it includes slang common to both US and UK dialects. Double bonus points if it includes one or more "slip ups".
-
Have you got a BBC Micro? The keys have individual key switches, and the key caps are injection moulded so the letters don't wear off. A lovely keyboard.
I thought about your comment for a few seconds before I decided that I'd prefer to accidentally shout half a word and need to use backspace or ctrl-h rather than accidentally send a control sequence and cause harm or at the very least wind up retyping a command (depending on the shell).
-b
No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
i just mapped all the OTHER machines I use to swap the ctrl and 'super/winkey' . Confuses he heck outta people that try to use my machine.
... is the one who made shifted letters come out as small when Caps Lock is on. That was brain-dead stupid.
I use caps lock a lot. Anyone who doesn't, probably doesn't really type very much.
That's 'two' keys, at opposing corners of the keyboard, but who's counting?
Have I got a story for you!
Delete and Escape, sounds like what a hacker would do.
I've never been able to figure out what that key is supposed to do. I've tried at various times in the past to press it while scrolling large amounts of text (tailing logs and such), and, other than turning on a light on my keyboard, it never seems to do anything.
Same with SysRq (which is often combined with Print Screen, which I do occasionally used), and the Pause/Break key.
I've seen these keys since the early IBM PC 101-key keyboard, and I don't think I've ever seen them actually do anything.
The article is incorrect that the keyboard has remained "largely unchanged since the 19th century", though. Typewriters never had a delete or Esc key. Backspace, yes, but the other two are purely for editing on computers.
Caps lock is also a computer key. Typewriters had the slightly less useful Shift Lock key, which was very similar, but would shift the numbers into symbols as well.
And, yeah, ever since IBM started making the numerical pad standard on keyboards, around 1980 or so, having a NumLock key really isn't useful, as all the other functions on that keyboard are duplicated elsewhere.
If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
No. It shoud be, and here actually is, MOD3. (Hover over the "Ebene 1-6" buttons, to see more.)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
The vt-52 placed the caps lock and control keys side by side, as did some of the later DEC Terminals.
Modified keystrokes on the left half of the keyboard (like shift-a, alt-a, and ctrl-a) are typed by holding the right modifier key down with the right hand, and pressing the desired key with the left. Similarly modified keystrokes on the right half of the keyboard (eg ctrl-k) are typed by holding down the left modifier key with the left hand and pressing the desired key with the right hand. The fact that you've got a like new control key on the bottom right of your keyboard tells me that you aren't typing properly. The reason you don't have two backspace keys is that the backspace is not a modifier key, it is a ("hard coded") function key.
Thinkpad Netbook Trackpoint
Thinkpad Netbook Trackpoint
Thinkpad Netbook Trackpoint
Thinkpad Netbook Trackpoint
Repeat Ad Infinitum
When Oh WHEN Lenovo?!?
Right, because it would be impossible to request for your text to be capitalized ANY OTHER WAY.
-josh
Tell that to Ctrl+R.
Sam ty sig.
Maybe my fingers are just too long, but I find no problem hitting the control key with my left pinky and then rapidly hitting any key that the left hand is expected to type (and one or two that some think the right hand should type).
This whole "control must be next to the A key" nonsense is amusing to me because the first Unix keyboards I used were so nonstandard by recent viewpoints that I saw non alpha-numeric keys all over the place. DEC had one layout, Sun another, HP a third. I can't even remember what SGI used in that time. They may have gone to a "standard" layout by the time I touched one. The standardization has been useful to me because I no longer have to stop and study every keyboard layout in order to get it right. I can just sit down at a semi-random computer keyboard and type at a reasonable speed. Even most laptops are close enough to the same that I don't have to look at them before using them, unless I'm using something like a Fn-key.
Yes, some people like control near where the caps lock key goes today. Reduce its size, move it around, I probably wouldn't notice. Move the control key and I'll notice and find it highly objectionable. I use it, my fingers have the position memorized so much that even when I move from laptop keyboard to full size keyboard, I only require a minimal adjustment.
"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
Many Sun keyboards. I own a type 7 Sun keyboard, and with the exception of the left hand double row of special Sun keys that are pretty worthless under Windows (stop, again, copy, paste, etc.) it is a pretty standard keyboard to me. They come in two flavors for type 7, so called "PC layout" and "Unix layout". I ended up getting the PC layout because I wanted a PC layout keyboard I wouldn't have any problems adjusting to.
A side effect is that the diamond key acts as a Windows key in Windows, and a CMD key in Mac. According to xev, it sends a Meta event.
"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
Where's the PlaidKey?
Maybe my fingers are just too long, but I find no problem hitting the control key with my left pinky and then rapidly hitting any key that the left hand is expected to type (and one or two that some think the right hand should type).
I can do it fast enough, but if I do that for long enough (I'm an Emacs user when I'm in Linux) my hand will start to hurt. I've had RSI issues in the past and ctrl next to A helps quite a bit with that for me, so I just find that way better.
(Also, my one complaint about the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad keyboards is that the lower-left corner is Fn, not Ctrl, so using caps just makes it even that much easier.)
Do they really need to enlarge the U key twice?
How about doing that per user?
Or computers where you can't edit the registery like that?
That is one of the main reasons that I preferred using the Linux based computers when I was at college and had to use a computer in a lab.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
Um... Proper typing practice is to hold the RIGHT ctrl (or shift or alt) key when hitting a key on the left half of the keyboard. The left ctrl key is for the right half of the keyboard.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
When you type at 80+ WPM, who cares how you type as long as it doesn't cause you any pain? If it means that I use my right hand for the B key, then I'll do that, even if some typing instructor thinks I should use the left hand.
So called proper typing practice when I learned didn't have any control keys. Then when I got a C-64, that keyboard layout was so different compared to modern standards that you really couldn't compare. Keyboards aren't very standard these days. I live with it, but enjoy the fact that there has been some standardization over the past fifteen years.
"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
While it is a small change, it is fairly radical to tinker with an area of hardware which has been largely unchanged since the 19th century.
can someone tell me where the esc and del keys were on the 19th century typewriters? I seem to have missed them- how did they use the esc and del functions back then?
Wow, does this ever strike me as a "solution in search of a problem."
I can almost deal with the enlarged keys--though hitting them wasn't particularly hard to begin with, and larger keys tend to stick more often--but to make room they had to shrink the F-keys and move INS.
Bastards!
Coders use the INS key for overwrite, as does anyone who remembers the original, pre-Mac-ified PC keyboard shortcuts for copy and paste. Much business software lean heavily on the F-keys. Now, not only is the six-pad in the wrong location (which can't be helped on a notebook), but the relative key positions are broken, and the F-keys are a chiclet-sized ergonomic nightmare of an afterthought. Don't they realize how badly this screws with touch typing?
So much for this being a "business oriented" machine.
I used to be a HARD typist - pounding the keys because my young hands didn't mind. Now into my later 30s, this is all starting to become an issue and i have pains that come and go over the weeks. That slight resistance in the keys does add up. I'm almost ready to throw this thing in a drawer and buy another keyboard, but probably not the same one again.
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...