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Except trolls nobody seems to disagree with you in that thread (when I started writing this post), so i feel I need to explain why you arguments are bogus instead of modding you down.

Since every package modifies the base system, the only way to prove that a package will work is to test it against every possible package configuration available!

Each package is independant with others except with its own dependencies. Those dependencies happen to be linear : for P packages, nP total dependencies, with n an integer independant of the number of packages. It's the job of a Debian package maintainer to check the dependencies are fulfilled and working : each maintener just needs to check n dependencies. That's part of the job people are doing to move a new version of a package from sid (unstable) to testing. I will add that chain of dependencies are irrelevant : if A needs B and B needs C, maintainer of A checks his program working against B, while it's the duty of the maintainer of B to check his program works with C. The only cross-dependancies are for kernel-mode code, that is only drivers.

In fact it's better than the windows "DLL hell", because the state of the system is known (for a Debian stable for exemple), while on MS Windows... Your program has been developped and tested for DirectX 8, will it work with DirectX 9 ? No way to know what the state of the user's system will be (and no developper includes DirectX as a static dependency, it isn't even possible). It's no wonder that most OSes are using repositories (Linux, BSD, QNX, BeOS with software wallet, that one being somewhat different IIRC).

any software that's not in the repository is not well supported by the packaging system.

You seem to ignore that there isn't a single central repository. Want Opera browser ? Just add http://deb.opera.com/opera/ in your repositories list, and you get the official binary matching your version of Debian, checked against it.

If something is not clear, feel free to ask for details.

http://widgets.opera.com/widget/3903

Accuweather widget plugin on Opera.

Enjoy!!!

Other than telling us Opera is "consuming 100000kB," the user doesn't give any details.

You can easily find instances of Opera using more memory than that: 1, 2, 3, 4.

You can easily find instances of Opera using more memory than that: 1, 2, 3, 4.

I'm thrilled to get tabs on a browser that doesn't have a memory leak.

When Netscape started dying, people didn't have a lot of choice for browsers. There was Internet Explorer (cost: $0) and Opera (cost: annoying ads).

Depends on when you think Netscape started dying. At the time I gave up on Netscape Communicator, Opera was still 30-day trialware, with a cost of $39. (Fortunately I still qualified for the student discount at the time.) The ad-supported mode didn't appear until version 5, in December 2000.

I think that if Opera had had a non-ad, basic freeware version, they would probably have captured a lot of the people who now use Firefox. And the ad-version could very well hang over them in the minds of some people.

I'll definitely agree with that. The only problem is that I don't think there was another business model in place at the time that would have enabled them to sink money into a free product. IE had Microsoft's entire software empire. Netscape had AOL/Time Warner's media empire. Opera had... Opera. They had some versions of their embedded browser at the time, but that would've been it. The deals with search engine placement that fuel both Opera and Mozilla these days probably wouldn't have ben viable at the time.

Opera doesn't have these problems

http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/spell check/

If they don't fix bugs between RC's then what, pray tell, are they supposed to be doing? Just printing the same discs over again with RC2 instead of RC1? BTW smart guy, they don't add features after RC1.

It's an RC. Release Candidate. By traditional labeling, a release candidate is a possible release. You release the RC, and in a few days/weeks/months, if no "major" bugs are found, you release it without change. Anyone who tried RC1 can tell you that it was most certainly NOT ready to release without change.

Right about now a million MS fanboys are screaming "But people found bugs, so they needed to fix them and make a new RC." But some of the bugs that were "found" and features that were missing were so glaring and obvious, there's no possible way MS expected it to be an actual release. I hate MS as much as the next guy, but they're simply not dumb enough to think RC1 could have been the real release. In the entire rest of the computing world, that's called a "beta." Like it or not, that's just the way it is.

Opera, for example, uses their final release candidate as the final release. Just check out their weekly builds. September 18 was RC1, September 19 was RC2 (with a single bug fix), and on September 21 RC2 was released as 9.02. Same build number and everything. That's how it's supposed to be.

Interestingly enough, someone has already tried converting a Google Gadget to an Opera Widget.

The terminology is getting really odd, though... gadgets+widgets = gidgets?

Go-go-Gadget Google?

in Opera browser since v.9.0 ... see the following page: http://widgets.opera.com/ Opera rox! If you would have read TFA you would know that Google Gadgets are code you can download and put into your own web site. It's not a desktop-like widget that floats around. These are meant to be added to your own webpages so you have them there instead of going to your Google Personlized Home Page.

in Opera browser since v.9.0 ... see the following page: http://widgets.opera.com/ Opera rox!

I have used the Opera browser for years, and I am very happy with it.

Essentially, Firefox is written in javascript.

Essentially, Firefox is written in javascript.

Yeah. Don't they use a spell checker?

Try this: http://www.iespell.com/
or this: http://spellbound.sourceforge.net/
or this: http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/spell check/

It's been a while since you had to pay for Opera on Desktop. Still have to pay on mobile phones, though, unless you use Opera Mini.

And, as others pointed out, your analogy is flawed.

Yes, espcially that mouse gesture is supported by Opera already!

http://www.opera.com/products/desktop/mouse/

Now, if only I can input alphabet for web address by air writing with the wiimote, that would be killer!

Opera is in business for devices for ages. They are the standard company for browsing on devices.

Their "Opera Mini" which is shockingly only 96kb in most advanced version (MIDP 2.0) is some hit on mobile nobody could have imagined. I really hope one day they offer those download numbers at least the ones from mini.opera.com .

When we speak about devices, phones,consoles,PDAs: Opera is the king. Just look at this page:
http://www.opera.com/products/devices/gallery/

I mean they don't need any kind of favour to stay in business.

It is Microsoft which is a joke on mobile browsing and thank God, they couldn't even take off on that area.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony PS3 Opera ships too.

Let me add that Opera Mini is free as well.
http://www.opera.com/products/mobile/operamini/

I have to wonder why they didn't just port Firefox themselves.

Well, Opera had previously ported the browser to the DS -- something made easier by their long experience developing for embedded devices. Presumably Nintendo liked what they got with that partnership, and decided to expand it.

"Wow, Nintendo is temporarily offering me a free copy of a program that has always been free before. What a bargain!!"

It's fun to be smug but only when you know what you're talking about.

Got it Eric?

Opera's bug reporting is really really obscure. They lock out the bug database and don't tell you if they fixed something, or even if it was a problem.

The way to deal with that, I've found, is to ask follow-up questions on the forums. If you keep track of the bug report numbers, it's even better.

I reported a couple of CSS bugs back during the betas for Opera 8. Nothing happened. So during the Opera 9 betas, I posted questions about them, asked about other bugs I encountered, and funny thing, every layout bug I asked about was fixed by the time Opera 9 final came out.

And you completely ignored Hallvors' post where he said he would patch it for all Opera users if you'd given him the name of the site.

Opera is a decent browser, unfortunately it has been known to break on some pretty common javascript.

Yup - I had the very same discussionwith Opera devs about my bank's web site. I bank with one of the largest banks in Canada, and Opera devs claim the problem is with the authors of the banking site, not with Opera itself.

While I am a fan of Opera, why would any bank give a flying fart if their site doesn't work with Opera? I tried to convince the Opera devs it was a problem with their browser, and they cited it was a security problem. Like I said in my thread, all they had to do is keep a list of valid tld's in their browser and allow cross site redirects within the same TLD. It's child's play to write that really. If there's a new TLD, update the list for the next browser version. Piece of cake.

After that thread, I've lost all respect for Opera, and it deserve the fate it is dealt by the market. It saddens me because I am a fan of that browser.

I would assume Noscript, which allows you to block JavaScript except for sites you allow it for. Opera has the same functionality built in.

Just don't do it using MSIE.

Simple, eh?

Of the 4 browsers I have here, all are safer in JavaScript than MSIE (FireFox, SeaMonkey, Opera, Konqueror). Three of those are easily available for 'doze & even Konqueror can be made to work in it.

Er... sorry, I also have lynx, links & w3m available, plus Galeon and a few other GNOMEish built-ins kicking around. Spoilt for choice!

Looks like this has now been fixed in latest Opera weekly. You can download it from http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/

Thanks. The aforementioned bug has been fixed.

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Good evening. Working hard, in this busy time for you called. This is my friend and the Boke,just established, the time is not long. The issue here isthat everybody can see my Boke, Ha-ha, raising some visibility, which caused trouble to ask your forgiveness! We all hope to see. Please! http://my.opera.com/ruyan/blog/ http://jiyishenchuren.spaces.msn.com/ http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1245033544 http://tianyawuhui.blog.sohu.com/ http://blog.xuite.net/yueguang/yue http://jimoruyan.blogbus.com/index.html http://sanguoyanji.yculblog.com/ http://my.donews.com/jiangnanjiyi http://blogcn.com/u2/56/25/bufenshou/index.html http://yuefu.blog.163.com/ http://blog.eastmoney.com/chamagudao http://yutianxiayu.blog.com/ http://qiuri.shineblog.com/user4/qiuri/ http://blog.xoyo.com/cangliang http://bajiuwentian.blog.tyfo.com/ http://blog.thldl.org.cn/user1/xiaoyaoke/index.htm l http://www.91blog.com/user5/7095/index.shtml http://jimoyuye.52blog.net/user5/150638/index.shtm l http://xiangxiahaizi.anyp.cn/blog http://blog.fxmultibank.com/user1/tianshangren/ind ex.html http://www.laren.cn/blog/2006/woxin/ http://bufengshou.blog.tom.com/ http://suiyuerg.tianya.cn/ http://lushan.fyfz.cn/blog/lushan http://blog.focus.cn/myblog/2843636.html http://hexun.com/wanqiudaocao/wanqiudaocao http://www.xanga.com/guyan

Opera has started implementing some CSS2 that makes it easy to make full-screen presentations using only the browser, Looky here. When the browser goes to full screen mode, it starts using the @media projection rules, so you can write a plain HTML file, and make it look nice for presentation by using CSS rules. Which is.. neat.

I'm not sure what is supposed to happen, but there's no way to adjust threshold and the floating window is just annoying.

I'm using the lastest weekly, 8573.

Opera are pretty good at fixing bugs promptly if you let them know. Use the form if you don't have other contacts:
https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/

Another technology to look at is Server-Sent Events (SSE), which takes AJAX one step further.

Opera 9 added support for SSE.

With the traditional AJAX implementation, the browser continually polls the server, sending requests to the server, asking to get data back, making new HTTP requests for every single poll, putting more strain on the server than needed.

In Opera 9 you can instead open a persistent connection to the server, sending data to the client when new information is available, eliminating the need for continuous polling.

Read more about it on the official Opera blog by their Web Applications team.

Even when Opera is spoofing it's user agent string the text "Opera" is still in there and anyone making a reasonable effort to identify browsers will be able to count it accordingly. Opera's spoofing doesn't hide that it's Opera, it only acts a workaround for sites that only detect a common part of the IE/Mozilla UA string and wouldn't do anything if one of those aren't found.

For batch changing I have found Advanced Find and Replace to be very effective. I had to update a none standards compliant site that didn't use CSS to standards compliance with CSS recently. The site had about 15000 pages at the time, if I remember rightly, but it was quite painless updating it with Advanced Find and Replace.

For HTML, CSS and PHP editing I use TextPad. A great text editor with syntax highlighting and other tools that make writing code easy. For checking the page I use Firefox with Web Developer plugin, Opera (my main browser) and, grudgingly, IE.

I'm not a professional designer, just a hobbiest. But, I'm trying to make something useful. IE gets in the way.

I'm an idealist and I think everyone should be using what is obviously the best thing.

What if the world is right and I'm wrong? I guess I'll accomodate the world, but I won't like it, and I may still claim that I'm right and push for my way. Making the non IE page better may be part of that push.

I've never really checked it out, but there it is, so I guess I should try Opera.

Thank God I have Opera. =)

Oh by the way, if you really spend 10 hours a week trying to figure out Opera, it might be worth your while to check out the Opera Community Forums ( http://my.opera.com/community/forums/forum.dml?id= 27 ) or their newsgroups ( http://www.opera.com/newsgroups/ ). There are lots of clever people in both places, many of whom are very experienced in coding Opera-compatible pages, that would be willing to help out pretty much anyone who asks nicely.

Oh by the way, if you really spend 10 hours a week trying to figure out Opera, it might be worth your while to check out the Opera Community Forums ( http://my.opera.com/community/forums/forum.dml?id= 27 ) or their newsgroups ( http://www.opera.com/newsgroups/ ). There are lots of clever people in both places, many of whom are very experienced in coding Opera-compatible pages, that would be willing to help out pretty much anyone who asks nicely.

1. InnerHTML is a proprietary IE-created feature. It is not javascript. Regardless, Opera has in fact supported it for several years now. If you are having a specific problem you might want to report it so it can be fixed: https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/

2. I just wrote a quick test generating a select with options and selecting an option with javascript and it works fine for me (innerhtml and dom methods both worked). Maybe I am misunderstanding what specifically you are having problems with?

3. What does this mean? The browser chrome has changed a couple of times since Opera has been out but I don't see how this affects web pages. Or are you talking about CSS? There have been a lot of rendering fixes over time but unless you are doing something fancy you should not notice the majority of these usually. Again, maybe I am misunderstanding.

I see plenty of posts about Opera 9.0 hogging memory too.

If you used a browser that doesn't suck, you could whitelist which sites you want to allow flash to play.

I'll consider using Firefox again once the developers stop marking bugs as INVALID, despite the exhibited behavior going against the standard. Particularly since it works correctly in the other major browsers.

Until then, I'll stick with Opera, thanks.

Microsoft also invited Opera devs for the same reason that they've invited FF devs (to make sure the browser runs well in Vista, and possibly makes use of some new Vista apis (e.g. Vista's Common RSS api)). Opera accepted the invitation and Opera devs paid their visit to MS last week.
http://annevankesteren.nl/2006/08/opera-vista
http://my.opera.com/olli/blog/show.dml/417961

The Opera devs returned unharmed. ;-)

Opera was invited to MS recently as well.... http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/show.dml/419834

Implemented designMode for rich text editing.

Poor, poor Microsoft not being able to get a browser that meets 1998's standards by 2007. As the article pointed out, it takes years to get it right. Of course, if they hadn't let MSIE rot to begin with, they'd be okay now.

As it stands, it's already been demonstrated that:

• Large, well-organized open source projects (Mozilla) can do it.
• Well-organized corporate / open source collaborations can do it (Safari)
• Smallish companies can do it (Opera)
• and even guys-in-their-basements can do it (iCab)

Microsoft, one of the largest software companies in the world, is trying to claim they don't have at least equal development muscle to these groups?

Seriously, the problem is of their own making. Now they're trying to fix the biggest bugs in IE6, but they're ignoring some of the biggest features of CSS that it lacks (like display: table*). It's hard to feel any sympathy.