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http://www.psystar.com/rebel_efi

That's sort of the ultimate rip off.

Prior to Steve Jobs' return, Apple was struggling to stay afloat. When Jobs came, one of the first things he did was up the major version number from 7 to 8 because the license for Mac OS 7 allowed third parties to make computers that could run Mac OS. It's just my guess but I think the reason Apple is doing this because some of the price that goes into it's computers is the price of developing the operating system. If Psystar wins this case, it will give a carte blanche to everybody else to create Mac clones, bringing Apple back into the situation they were in in 1998.

Personally I'm rooting for Apple on this one. It's their business model, and it has benefits for their users. And Psystar apparently likes to leech off of open source projects, or maybe they just like to violate licenses - it's ambiguous since their latest product - Rebel EFI - is based on an open source one - FakeSMC - whose license doesn't allow commercial use.

I just got an email back from Psystar support, unfortunately they don't answer my question on USB CD and their Wiki does not cover the subject either:

Hello,

The RebelEFI Hardware Compatibility List (HCL) can be found at http://wiki.psystar.com/ . Here you will be able to find information regarding your hardware. If your device/computer is not listed please send a complete report of what is not working to support@psystar.com. Please include: Computer Model, Motherboard, CPU, Video Card and Order Number if you have already purchased. You may also download a trail copy at http://cdn.psystar.com/rebelefi_latest.iso . Updates to RebelEFI including change log will be posted both on http://wiki.psystar.com/ and http://community.psystar.com./ Hardware still not working? Don't get discouraged. Psystar is actively adding more hardware support to RebelEFI.

I just got an email back from Psystar support, unfortunately they don't answer my question on USB CD and their Wiki does not cover the subject either:

Hello,

The RebelEFI Hardware Compatibility List (HCL) can be found at http://wiki.psystar.com/ . Here you will be able to find information regarding your hardware. If your device/computer is not listed please send a complete report of what is not working to support@psystar.com. Please include: Computer Model, Motherboard, CPU, Video Card and Order Number if you have already purchased. You may also download a trail copy at http://cdn.psystar.com/rebelefi_latest.iso . Updates to RebelEFI including change log will be posted both on http://wiki.psystar.com/ and http://community.psystar.com./ Hardware still not working? Don't get discouraged. Psystar is actively adding more hardware support to RebelEFI.

I just got an email back from Psystar support, unfortunately they don't answer my question on USB CD and their Wiki does not cover the subject either:

Hello,

The RebelEFI Hardware Compatibility List (HCL) can be found at http://wiki.psystar.com/ . Here you will be able to find information regarding your hardware. If your device/computer is not listed please send a complete report of what is not working to support@psystar.com. Please include: Computer Model, Motherboard, CPU, Video Card and Order Number if you have already purchased. You may also download a trail copy at http://cdn.psystar.com/rebelefi_latest.iso . Updates to RebelEFI including change log will be posted both on http://wiki.psystar.com/ and http://community.psystar.com./ Hardware still not working? Don't get discouraged. Psystar is actively adding more hardware support to RebelEFI.

I just got an email back from Psystar support, unfortunately they don't answer my question on USB CD and their Wiki does not cover the subject either:

Hello,

The RebelEFI Hardware Compatibility List (HCL) can be found at http://wiki.psystar.com/ . Here you will be able to find information regarding your hardware. If your device/computer is not listed please send a complete report of what is not working to support@psystar.com. Please include: Computer Model, Motherboard, CPU, Video Card and Order Number if you have already purchased. You may also download a trail copy at http://cdn.psystar.com/rebelefi_latest.iso . Updates to RebelEFI including change log will be posted both on http://wiki.psystar.com/ and http://community.psystar.com./ Hardware still not working? Don't get discouraged. Psystar is actively adding more hardware support to RebelEFI.

Ahh, but Psystar did sell machines with OS X pre-installed, and without shipping the opened box or at least the DVD with it.

You are full of shit again.

Psystar's site:

Do I recieve a copy of the OS that I purchased pre-installed?

If you purchase the operating system from us you will receive a licensed copy of the operating system on its installation media (CD or DVD). Windows OSes are OEM versions and will be operational strictly on the computer with which it was purchased as that is how Microsoft's OEM licensing works.

The $130 doesn't get you an OS that will run on commodity hardware.

Let me introduce you to the hacintosh. Macs have been nothing more than commodity PCs in a proprietary case since they switched to the x86/x64 platform.

In the case of notebooks, it is also true the Macbook chassis is vastly superior to practically any "PC" notebook vendor. However I am going Dell Precision rather than Macbook Pro for my next notebook for two reasons: 1. Dell offers WUXGA resolution and 2) Dell offers a three-button "mouse" (trackpointer and touchpad), and one minor reason (a "powerslice" external battery which will allow the PC to run a full 10-12 hours). The price I negotiated Dell down to is about the same as a Macbook Pro 15 but I'll have a better optical drive, a magnesium alloy case (as opposed to aluminum), more RAM, higher resolution (with RGB-LED backlight!), faster CPU, faster video chipset, backlit keyboard, and no retarded one-button mouse (touchpad/trackpointer). Oh, and accidental damage coverage and three-year warranty with on-site service (although no "tech" will touch my notebook - I will insist on receiving the part only in the event that I need service).

I'd love to have gone with a Macbook even though it's commodity hardware - the Macbook is lighter and they're pretty, but on the other hand, I'm not retarded. I want two or three mouse buttons. Also, I'm not blind. I want high resolution because I design graphics, and now I am getting into embroidery and clothing design for a hobby. I need something better than 1440x900. Heck, my old (circa-1991) Latitude did 1680x1050, and my older Thinkpad had a three-button mouse. Jobs, please enter the new millennium. Most Mac users are at least somewhat computer-literate, certainly more capable than most Windows users, and can deal with a multi-button mouse/touchpad/trackpointer.

Oh, and Ballmer? My real work will be done in Linux. Windows will be only for games and embroidery design (I need to convert from .svg and .ai to .sew), and if I can get the embroidery software to talk to the machine while running under crossover office, so much the better - I may not need Windows at all. :D

hard to keep updated

it's all standard kit, why is it hard to update? I ask seriously, I'm unfamiliar with this Pystar and Apple software.

Then why do you need a system restore disk to get it installed? Why do they need to run their own update service to patch OSX, if not to protect the changes they've made?

Further, the changes that they made to the Software Update service and the changes they made to the patches themselves might be enough to make it a "derivative work".

Not true! From Pystar's homepage:

The update for Leopard 10.5.4 is available through Leopard's native Software Update utility for users who have run our 10.5.3 scripted installer or whose computers shipped with 10.5.3 Leopard. Just click the Apple on the top-left of the screen and select "Software Update" to run the built-in Software Update application.

They're kind of compelling, actually check this out one:

http://psystar.com/index.php?&option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=38&Itemid=72

Base Configuration

        * Mac OS X Leopard preinstalled

        * no keyboard, mouse, or monitor included

        * 2.0GHz Intel Dual-Core Pentium 2.0GHz Processor

        * 2GB of DDR2 800 memory

        * PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 7200GS 256MB

        * Dual Layer 20x DVD+/-RW SATA drive

        * Gigabit Ethernet

        * 4 rear USB Ports

$560...

The lowest-priced Mac I can find on http://store.apple.com/us is $599, and that's a Mini.

What am I missing?

Evidently, morals and any sense of right and wrong!

Since I can't mod you -1 (Uninformed), I'll just correct you: http://www.psystar.com/leopard_1054_business_as_usual.html

For those who don't like clocking links:
" Wednesday, 02 July 2008 09:41
The update for Leopard 10.5.4 is available through Leopard's native Software Update utility for users who have run our 10.5.3 scripted installer or whose computers shipped with 10.5.3 Leopard. Just click the Apple on the top-left of the screen and select "Software Update" to run the built-in Software Update application."

From their website: "This utility will allow your Open Computer to boot from the native Leopard installation DVD" - Pystar Restore disk That "utility" sounds like EFI emulation. Can I get an amen?

They're kind of compelling, actually check this out one:

http://psystar.com/index.php?&option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=38&Itemid=72

Base Configuration

        * Mac OS X Leopard preinstalled
        * no keyboard, mouse, or monitor included
        * 2.0GHz Intel Dual-Core Pentium 2.0GHz Processor
        * 2GB of DDR2 800 memory
        * PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 7200GS 256MB
        * Dual Layer 20x DVD+/-RW SATA drive
        * Gigabit Ethernet
        * 4 rear USB Ports

$560...

The lowest-priced Mac I can find on http://store.apple.com/us is $599, and that's a Mini.

What am I missing?

Read TFA, googled a little. It seems like I'm missing something. It seems they simply charge outrageous markup on generic, mediocre Intel systems. Throw in a moderately cheap-looking case and charge $155 for the OS installation. What's new here?

If this was back when Apple was using PowerPC processors, maybe they'd have a point. But I don't see this as being a "clone" of a Mac, because clone implies hardware and this (and the Mac's) hardware is the same as everyone else's.

Apple stock selling at inflated prices? Next you're going to suggest that their hardware is similarly over priced. That no one could sell hardware capable of running Mac OSX for less. It's inconceivable!

Also, Psystar's web site is not down. It's just slow.

Great job posting the link on /. once again though. Real nice.

Psystar could probably win this on antitrust grounds. Apple's EULA is probably an "illegal tying arrangement" and unenforceable. But Psystar may not be able to afford the litigation. Historically, IBM lost on this antitrust issue in the 1970s, which is why there were and are IBM mainframe clones and, indeed, IBM PC clones. In fact, IBM was forced to sell their mainframe OS and applications to users with mainframe clones from Amdahl and NCR.

The difference between this era of Mac clones and the last one was that the earlier generations (pre x86) of Apple machines had parts of the OS in ROM, which gave Apple more legal leverage. The current Apple machines are essentially Intel-based PC clones, with little or no essential Apple intellectual property inside.

Psystar does not seem to be redistributing Apple updates. They distribute an installer which, on the client machine, downloads an update from Apple and patches it.

Also, Psystar's web site is not down. It's just slow.

http://psystar.com/ The site is up!!

http://www.psystar.com/

"The highly extensible Open Computer is a configuration of PC hardware capable of running unmodified OS X Leopard kernels. If you purchase Leopard with your Open Computer we will not only include the actual Leopard retail package with genuine installation disc, but we also preinstall Leopard for free so you can begin to use your computer right out of the box."

However, the current article says the loud fan problem seems to be caused by incompatibilies between the motherboard/case fan controller and OS X (and maybe the hacked EFI). If the same motherboard/case was used with Windows, it would surely be much quieter.

However, the current article says the loud fan problem seems to be caused by incompatibilies between the motherboard/case fan controller and OS X (and maybe the hacked EFI). If the same motherboard/case was used with Windows, it would surely be much quieter.

Many Slashdot readers would recognize the OpenPro's case as the Antec P182, which Newegg sells for $200 without power supply.

Psystar's FAQ says that the basic Open Computer uses "an Asus 350W power supply which Asus states is rated at 300W," so I'm sure it's the same one bundled at Newegg. They say the OpenPro "runs a 600W PSU."

I'm not saying these Psystar computers are good values or even exist. I'm just fascinated by this story because the order/configuration page looks real and still exists despite all the evidence that suggests this is all a big scam. I can't wait to see these scammers go down in flames.

But why the heck are you comparing the "value" of an expandable microATX minitower (desktop CPU, graphics card option, PCI/PCIe slots, desktop hard/optical drives) to a small form factor desktop made of laptop parts? If Apple offered a decent single-CPU desktop with real desktop parts and no integrated display, I bet it would outsell the Mac mini by a lot. I guess Apple doesn't think such a machine would be profitable enough (nothing wrong with that).

Many Slashdot readers would recognize the OpenPro's case as the Antec P182, which Newegg sells for $200 without power supply.

Psystar's FAQ says that the basic Open Computer uses "an Asus 350W power supply which Asus states is rated at 300W," so I'm sure it's the same one bundled at Newegg. They say the OpenPro "runs a 600W PSU."

I'm not saying these Psystar computers are good values or even exist. I'm just fascinated by this story because the order/configuration page looks real and still exists despite all the evidence that suggests this is all a big scam. I can't wait to see these scammers go down in flames.

But why the heck are you comparing the "value" of an expandable microATX minitower (desktop CPU, graphics card option, PCI/PCIe slots, desktop hard/optical drives) to a small form factor desktop made of laptop parts? If Apple offered a decent single-CPU desktop with real desktop parts and no integrated display, I bet it would outsell the Mac mini by a lot. I guess Apple doesn't think such a machine would be profitable enough (nothing wrong with that).

Many Slashdot readers would recognize the OpenPro's case as the Antec P182, which Newegg sells for $200 without power supply.

Psystar's FAQ says that the basic Open Computer uses "an Asus 350W power supply which Asus states is rated at 300W," so I'm sure it's the same one bundled at Newegg. They say the OpenPro "runs a 600W PSU."

I'm not saying these Psystar computers are good values or even exist. I'm just fascinated by this story because the order/configuration page looks real and still exists despite all the evidence that suggests this is all a big scam. I can't wait to see these scammers go down in flames.

But why the heck are you comparing the "value" of an expandable microATX minitower (desktop CPU, graphics card option, PCI/PCIe slots, desktop hard/optical drives) to a small form factor desktop made of laptop parts? If Apple offered a decent single-CPU desktop with real desktop parts and no integrated display, I bet it would outsell the Mac mini by a lot. I guess Apple doesn't think such a machine would be profitable enough (nothing wrong with that).

You might want to rethink that. The guardian looked into the company and found that there is no evidence they have ever sold anyone anything. The original address listed was a private home and the new one is a shipping company who claims to have never heard of them. In light of this, I'd hold onto my credit card number a bit longer and wait to see if they are a legit business going forward.

My suspicion is this is a one or two man attempt to start a new business and they obviously did not consult a lawyer before launching their new scheme.

The site is up - Looks like they were actually redesigning the website while it was off line. Here's the URL: http://www.psystar.com/openmac_the_apple_alternative.html If I had some cash to blow, I'd buy one now. Hopefully the site will last long enough for me to get that vaporware government check we've all been hearing about.

http://www.psystar.com/

It's now called the "Open Computer," and there's an "OpenPro" option for $999, too!

http://www.psystar.com/openmac_the_apple_alternative.html

Psystar is doomed if for no other reason than that they are selling a computer with "Mac" in the name.

Actually the computer is called "Open Computer". Maybe the name has changed since TFA was posted, but Psystar's web site currently calls it an Open Computer.