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Turn your toy iPad off, put it down.

Turn your PC on, Goto http://www.quakelive.com/ (or install from a DVD-ROM of Q3, yes, it exists!)
Use a mouse + keyboard, AS IT WAS INTENDED TO BE PLAYED 10+ years ago.
Admire one of the greatest game of all time, and, the best game engine ever created.

Once your done, put your iPad back on.
Enjoy all the buggy games made with Unity + Java by a 16 year old kid.

Now name popular games for linux not made by ID Software or ported by Loki.

From the wine app database, that I linked in my previous post:

Final Fantasy XI.
World of Warcraft.
StarCraft I and II.
Guild Wars.
Team Fortress 2.
Left 4 Dead.
Counter-Strike: Source.
Warcraft III.
Half-Life 2.

These are from the list of "Platinum" support, which states as its description "Applications which install and run flawlessly on an out-of-the-box Wine installation". You can go here for a list of 1,568 items listed as supported under wine with a rating of "Platinum", in the category "Games".

The "Gold" and "Silver" lists are rather extensive, as well, and the descriptions for those ratings lead me to believe those ratings will still be playable.

As an aside, you can play a perfect (and legal) reproduction of Quake 3 Arena at http://www.quakelive.com - in your browser, OS-agnostic, and at high frame rates. My machine pushes 125 fps at 1920x1080 (full screen) with all graphics options maxed and a dozen people in the arena, so it doesn't seem at all crippled by running in a browser plug-in.

it makes more sense to just link in the quake engine and support a "quake" tag

Yesterday's news, my good man - haven't you heard of Quake Live? Serve up the .pak with MIME type "application/x-id-quakelive" and Bob's your uncle!

Umm: http://www.quakelive.com/

It broke the linux game, seemingly for everyone who is using the free-version, because when the ad finishes, the game crashes. No comment from id yet, 3 days later... http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?57-Firefox-closes-when-joining-a-game-(Linux)

Only very recently did it get actual hardware-accelerated 3D. I'm pretty sure Java doesn't, but JavaScript is getting 3D support soon (they're in the nightlies of the major open source browsers).

...Runescape?

Java has had 3D for a very long time. Close to a decade, actually. It looked very bad back then, compared to DirectX games not run in a browser, but it had it.

Now that we have way more GPU power, 3D can be inefficiently shunted into browsers for all our favourite old classics! (flash example)

- the only Area in which the BBSs win are with the door games

http://www.quakelive.com/

This is a serious question: Why does Apple appear to be OK with HTML5, but not with Flash? There are lots of posts claiming Apple is "afraid" of Flash, because the app store is their cash cow and Flash is a threat to that.

Now, I realize there is a lot more Flash content than HTML5 content, but isn't the basic principle the same? Couldn't I go make just about any game in HTML5 right now and have it work on the iPhone and iPad?

Is it because the source for any HTML5 game is viewable that Apple think "serious" game developers will avoid it?

Or another reason I'm missing?

I think Apple is OK with HTML5 and not Flash because Apple really is afraid of Flash and it's threat to it's market place. HTML5 at the moment is more of a novelty that might mature into something way in the future, but at the moment its not anywhere as useful as Flash. HTML5 can play video but it can't do much else like play games without extra's involved which I doubt Apple would allow. These extra's are plugins like Web3D which to my knowledge aren't on products like the iPad. And even if you could get plugins like Web3d on the iPad, it might not function well (as shown here on what looks to be on a full Mac computer). As you can see in the video, it's slow, and it's Quake 2, and it's running on HTML5, a far cry from the smoother Quake 3 running through Flash/. Flash would give access to free web games, which Apple won't want since by the looks of it as of 2 months ago the top 3 money making apps are games and no company wants to kill its money-maker.

Who is the target audience?

I doubt Grandma/Grandpa would want it. Not because it lacks a camera, but because of the normal aspects that it lacks. I've had to help elderly with computer things and the most common issue I've noticed is they don't like work arounds. Doesn't support flash, so that kills things like Farmville on their Facebook which has over 75 million users. And it's not the only Facebook game that runs on Flash. Telling them they can't play these games that they enjoy is going to be a killer against the iPad for them since they don't use the internet much, And having to quit whatever they are doing to use a second program isn't going to cut it either since they do that all the time on their computer, why can't the iPad? This isn't supposed to be a simple iPhone so the lack of multiple apps isn't going to go unnoticed. The weight will also be an issue since its meant to be held with one hand and the other hand is to click things, and arthritis is not nice to things like that (why most elderly read a book with 2 hands, helps with the books weight and their arthritis)

As for business, the weight might get to you. The lack of a functional way of entering letters will be a much bigger issue. A business would use this like a notepad and it's just not designed to be used like a notepad. Also custom software will be a huge let down since many businesses use either custom or niche software, and trying to convince the boss to pony up another $100 or so dollars per unit just to make them 'developer' models and load in house built software isn't going to be a good option either (20 units = $2000, that would be a small business when what they already have works great as it is without spending thousands+ more for units and that extra cost). As mentioned about the lack of keyboard, I doubt a writer would want to use this since typing would be a pain to write more then 2 pages when they could be using a netbook that has a USB port to hold onto a backup copy of their current revision.

Maybe kids want it? Again the lack of flash makes this a unlikely option since I see the bosses kid at work sometimes and when he goes online, he doesn't go to Facebook or Slashdot.org that doesn't use flash. All the kids want to do is go to places like bored.com and play Flash games. Kids what fun things to do at the moment and impulsively, not sit there and think ahead 'oh, maybe I should load some movies to watch in a few hours from now.'. So I doubt kids would want this either. And unlike Dad's iPhone that Daddy already bought games for, I don't see them being able to go on a shopping spree with Daddies credit card and Daddy might not have the time to look at 'this cool, neat game' little Timmy wants at the moment.

As for '"fancy graphic designers" don't always use Flash', what else are they using? HTML5? Doubtful since unless it's a video like on YouTube, HTML5 just doesn't cut it. This has been noticed with http://www.quakelive.com/#home (needing Flash) can play Quake 3 on a browser without tons of loss and massive hardware requirements, where as Quake 2 running on HTML5 has lower graphics (needing less power) ran pretty slow when more then a few objects where on screen (watch the video when 2 or more enemies are on screen and see that slow down). These don't happen on Flash, and so people will want to program these games for Flash because it will work better and faster. And doesn't need as many special addons (like WebGL which I doubt is on the iPad). This was fine on a iPhone since it was a mobile smartphone and no smartphone runs Flash. The iPad is a tablet PC and is the only one that can't use Flash, it will be noticed and this is going to been seen and used as a PC, not a smartphone.

QuakeLive isn't too bad.

http://www.quakelive.com/

None of the mentioned things affected my setup: Dell XPS with AMD64 and nVidia, but I had other various issues.

1. The wired card ceased to be "managed". The fix was easy, but the reason will remain a mystery.
2. "Popping" sounds could be heard. This is a very minor bug with a very easy fix.
3. Quake Live became a terrible dog for FPS, and the problem was traced to its interference with compiz. Since QL is still in beta, it is hard to say whose fault it is. The workaround (by me :) is OK.
4. Where is the Services wizard? It got nuked! To be sure, it's not a bug, but a serious usability issue. Users have to either grok System V scripts (so I am OK) or use Synaptic when they want to, say, disable/enable sshd.
5. The login screen is fugly and the wizard for it is gone. Or could as well be gone.

Altogether, this was a rather painless experience for me, but if you hate ironing out bugs, I would recommend waiting for a few weeks before upgrading from stable. On the other hand, if you are doing a new installation, 9.10 is probably a better choice, as it basically works.

P.S.: God, I hate it when I press a wrong button and Firefox navigates away, which causes me to loose my notes.Slashdot should open the input form on a separate page.

Quake Live

There are some positive uses for it (such as getting us out of dependence on proprietary technologies like Flash)

There are already a lot of ways we could get rid of Flash, if people would stop using it. After all, Flash is mostly used for vector graphics (we've got SVG), interactivity (we've got AJAX/DHTML), and audio/video (we've got the audio and video tags).

For one, this will add even more vulnerabilities to browsers which seem to already have loads of them.

So does every useful feature. I'll bet money that the first serious vulnerability is in a driver, not a browser.

And for another the web should be accessible for -everyone- from the low-end netbook to a Core i7, and even older systems should be able to browse web.

OpenGL can be implemented in software.

And you lost that argument already with Flash. When there are one or more video ads on many pages I visit, I doubt low-end netbooks are doing well.

Yeah, we all know that they should do it in HTML and that will still stick around, but how many of us have encountered sites built entirely in Flash?

The fact that technology can be misused is not a reason to avoid developing said technology.

For example: It's possible to build an entire site surrounded by an iframe, so that navigation is completely broken. That doesn't mean that iframes have no legitimate uses.

It's also possible to build an entire site as a single AJAX app. This can be done well, but it takes more work -- for example, with Gmail, notice that everywhere you go, it adjusts the hash in the URL, so that you can use browser navigation properly -- the back button works, so does bookmarking, open in a new window/tab, etc etc. Sites that don't do that could have really poor usability.

It's also theoretically possible to render images using massive HTML tables, with each cell representing a single pixel. Does that mean HTML tables should be made less flexible, just so no one can do that?

I could go on...

The fact is, there are ways to abuse any technology -- there's always the possibility that someone will print out a website, make the changes they want, scan it back in, and upload it as an image. The fact that people can abuse technology should never prevent us from creating new, interesting bits of technology that have real, practical applications.

While some things obviously need Flash (such as Homestar Runner because they are Flash cartoons)

Nope. They need Flash because they were authored in Flash. They could have been done with SVG, Javascript, and the audio tag, it's just that the authoring tools for these aren't anywhere near Flash itself, from what I understand.

adding a high-end graphics card to a computer just to view the web? Thats just a bit ridiculous.

See, now you're being ridiculous.

Consider that ten or fifteen years ago, using excessively large images would be considered bad taste -- you'd be asking for way too much RAM "just to browse the web", and you'd be wasting a ton of bandwidth. That's why we came up with the idea of thumbnail galleries -- which are still useful, but a better model is really a slideshow.

It's not a "high end video card" now, either. Just about any video card is going to have some 3D capability on it -- and we're moving in the direction of compositing window managers, which will actually lead to cards supporting just 3D (and having to emulate 2D) being cheaper than cards supporting just 2D (and having to emulate 3D).

So, 10 or 15 years from now, when people want to add a little effect to their website -- or build an interesting "flash game" that's capable of actually using 3D hardware -- would you prefer it use Flash? Or maybe you'd prefer Quake Live -- a plugin for each game -- may as well just download an exe?

Or would

He wants to see Linux users in Quake Live to justify the port.
Here is the link: http://www.quakelive.com/
Bring it on, fellow slashdotters!

Me too... I will buy it if the port it. I won't if they don't. But they have made noises like this before... And always managed a port eventually. Still would not hurt to fire up Quake Live, and pass it around. It is still free right now. http://www.quakelive.com/

http://www.quakelive.com/

No, it really doesn't.

You mean World of Quake Live ( http://cdn-web.quakelive.com/web75/css/valances/fool-2009/merged_v75.0.jpg )?

I'm really looking forward to the implementation of private servers. I know all that's holding a few of my friends back is the fact that they have to play with the unwashed masses

...and a monthly fee, of course.

What about private servers and starting my own games?

As most of you know, we currently host only public matches that all players can join. These matches are running on server boxes in various locations throughout the world that are completely controlled by us and our back-end system. There are many benefits to doing things this way - our servers run more efficiently (hosting more people per physical box), our servers are always up to date with the clients, and we can more monitor and prevent cheating, to name only a few. However, we understand that players want to be able to host private games/servers that are configured the way they choose and only accessible to their friends, clan, or others they choose. Our private game/private server integration will be the first major feature added to QUAKE LIVE in the upcoming months.

Traditionally, the process of letting players rent private servers is something that is handed off to various game server providers (GSPs). Each of these GSPs sets their own prices, which are typically anywhere from about $15-$30/month for 16 player slots in a single, fixed location. Each GSP also typically has it's own interface for managing that server that in no way is integrated with the game.

Our plan is to completely integrate the ability to start and manage private games directly through QUAKE LIVE, utilizing all of the friends, awareness and notification features we have available through the site. This ability will be the cornerstone of a QUAKE LIVE Premium Service that will be offered for a small monthly fee (likely less than $5 per month). So, for 1/3 to 1/6 the price that it normally costs to run a private match, we'll be offering players the ability to easily start a private match with these benefits:

--On demand - whenever you want to play privately, you simply set it up, play, and when you're done, those slots go back into our "public pool." This is how we can offer it for a substantially lower cost than is typical.

--Each match you set up can be in a different location. For example, if you're in NY and you want to play a friend in CA, chose a neutral location in Illinois or Texas. If the next time you play, you want to invite a friend also on the east coast, then run the match in Virginia.

--The interface is completely integrated into QUAKE LIVE and uses all of the back-end friends and friend awareness systems that we have at our disposal. So, when setting up a match, you'll be able to select the friends you want to invite and have a pop-up automatically alert them to your invitation - allowing them to join with one click.

--Private matches will also have access to more competitive game features that can not be practically used for public matches - like locked teams, timeouts, etc. (more on this below).

This is a very high-level summary, but we're excited about what we'll be able to offer players. When we get closer to rolling this out, we'll include more details on what additional features will be included in the private match system as well as additional benefits included with the Premium subscription. It is important to note in all of this, that we will not at all be charging for any content - this premium fee is basically for an extended service that includes private "space" on physical hardware.

That or the game would be so old that I wouldn't want to play it anymore anyways (ie. Quake 3).

Or will be essentially free anyway.

they are doing just that: http://www.quakelive.com/ but without the need for the CD

http://www.quakelive.com/

Gamers don't need support contracts, and they'll go nuts if you try to cram advertising down their throats.

With some notable exceptions like quakelive.com

Well, you could *play* some made in the last 10 years and figure it out based on example.

I have, and there are a fair number of great games out there. You mentioned Starsiege Tribes, I preferred Tribes 2 just for the sheer amount of tomfoolery you could do with all of the various kits. I played a fair amount of Counterstrike when everyone else did back in the early 2000's and consider Call of Duty 4 a great successor to it. Team Fortress 2 was also quite awesome in it's own right, and Valve's continual commitment to quality expansions really helped the fact that the initial release was a bit underwhelming. Left 4 Dead took up a few weeks of my time as well...the list goes on and on.

However, Nexuiz isn't trying to be any of these things. It's trying to be traditional first person shooter, and I find that most people pin the blame on it not being "innovative" enough or some such nonsense. It's not a bad game because it's not "innovative", it's a bad game because it's a bad traditional deathmatch FPS. It's a subtle distinction, but it's important.

The Unreal Tournament series already out-Quaked Quake 3, years ago.

No it didn't. It made the same mistake that Nexuiz did, throw a bunch of content in a game and see if it stuck, only difference being that the content was professionally made and thus had an ounce of quality control. It was fun because nobody had really bothered to do that before on the scale that UT did. Now, however, it's pretty obvious which game had actual staying power and which one was a short-lived gimmick.

I don't see how a game like this can compete with something like Quake Live. Quake Live (still in beta) is free and has comparable graphics and gameplay. Yet it already has a much larger community, more polish, and runs more smoothly.

I understand that it is difficult for an open source game to have the same playerbase and polish as a professionally developed, ad-supported game. But at the very least Nexuiz should run more smoothly and should differentiate itself from other games that have already been released.

I'd say that a better open-source game might be Tremulous. Runs much more smoothly on my computer, and I often want to play it because its gameplay is different from other games I already have. Perhaps that's why there have always been more Tremulous players than Nexuiz players in my area.

Lots of people still play Quake 3. These days it's called Quake Live though.

Hell, id themselves is even working on a free version of Quake 3 Arena that's to be supported by in-game advertising, which was mentioned in the summary: http://www.quakelive.com/