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I've had a pretty good run using Ardour, JACK, JAMIN and occasionally JACK Timemachine on an Athlon 2800+ with 256 MB of memory.

The most expensive piece of sound equipment seems to be the AD/DA converters (whether on or off board). I ended up with an RME Hamerfall 9652 (yes, the original one) and a Behringer Ultragain ADA-8000 (inexpensive at 230 USD). I also use a Behringer BCF-2000 for automation control, and a bunch of other rackmount processors. The sound is better than a studio I had recorded at a while back which used a Mackie D8B and a bunch of very expensive and fancy looking equipment.

I guess it depends what you want to get out of it. If you want to spend 30$ on a cheapie sound card, expect it to sound like that.... The audio *software* is available for Linux, so the only limitation is how much green you want to sink into your setup. (Hint, Behringer has a 30$ USB sound card available if you're looking to do recording "on the cheap" which would sound a bit better than an internal sound card, considering that you can move the AD/DA conversion process a bit further away from your machines' clock chips.)

I know you are joking, but there are _really_ expensive cards/dsp boxes out there with terrific alsa support.

I'm at the point now, of looking into higher end sound cards, I'm figuring that is probably the weak link in what I have now...

RME Hammerfall cards = has ALSA drivers -- if you want the ability to do low latency and/or multitrack recording on a Linux kernel.

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/linux/alsa.htm/

Why would you bother? Makes a lot more sense to get one of these and output to whatever you need... RME Fireface

if by "sound card" you allow extrapolation to the more general term "audio interface" there are plenty - M-Audio, http://www.m-audio.com/ Echo Audio http://www.echoaudio.com/ Mark of the Unicorn, http://www.motu.com/ Digidesign, http://www.digidesign.com/ RME, http://www.rme-audio.com/ Apogee, http://www.apogeedigital.com/ Edirol, http://www.edirol.com/ etc.

It's hard to make a recommendation without knowing at a granular level what you want to do. How many inputs? How many outputs? Is latency an issue? What about frequency/bitrate? Digital inputs? Analog? MADI? Lightpipe? Some light reading... On the ULTRA high end, you would go with Apogee- http://www.apogeedigital.com/ - these are some of the industry's best da/ad converters; and with something like a big ben+rosetta on firewire, you'd be in good hands. Another contender could be rme http://www.rme-audio.com/ Then there's motu's line of products - http://www.motu.com/ - I've personally owned several of their interfaces and can tell you right out of the gate they're great. Good bang for the buck... Then you've got m-audio http://www.m-audio.com/ edirol http://www.edirol.com/ presonus http://www.presonus.com/

RME
Ardour (New website! :-))

A lot of musicians are not buying nForce 4s because of the problems with PCI-Express and audio performance http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/nforce4_ tests.htm. How does this chipset compare? I want to upgrade my PC soon and go with PCI express but nForce doesn't appear to be an option and, well, VIA boards used to have so many stability problems that I can't bring myself to trust them. And Athlon64s don't run so well on Intel mobos ;)

This is one of those areas that no review ever touches, because most buyers don't give a shit about it. I've never read a review which mentions that (older?) Geforce cards look like crap compared to ATIs and Matroxes and I've rarely read a review of a graphics card or mobo which takes one line to tell the reader how loud the fan is; all you see is benchmarks because that's what sells I guess.

So? How is it for audio? Can I trust a VIA motherboard?

But I don't beleive that it's a consperiacy against Linux. I beleive it's just complacency, laziness, apathy, and other crap like that.

I think, you're right. There are a lot of small companies out there who are not able to afford the resources for another platform besides Windows. Take RME Audio, they are absolutely not against Linux support for their hardware. The development team is just too small to support it. Here is the proof.

On the other hand, larger companies like HP - and even worse Samsung - should be able to spend some resources to develop Linux drivers. Why is it, that on most of the HW vendors websites, you can't find anything about Linux?

But I don't beleive that it's a consperiacy against Linux. I beleive it's just complacency, laziness, apathy, and other crap like that.

I think, you're right. There are a lot of small companies out there who are not able to afford the resources for another platform besides Windows. Take RME Audio, they are absolutely not against Linux support for their hardware. The development team is just too small to support it. Here is the proof.

On the other hand, larger companies like HP - and even worse Samsung - should be able to spend some resources to develop Linux drivers. Why is it, that on most of the HW vendors websites, you can't find anything about Linux?

At the Dutch Electronic Arts Festival (DEAF) I attended a session with Paul Davis, author of Ardour DAW, and he was using RME Multiface.. Hardly a shitty soundblaster, I'd say, although I do think he coded the alsa driver himself.

RME cards are well supported under Linux w/ ALSA and they definitely fall into a superior category...

Hardware: http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hammer/ (with stable third party drivers in ALSA) Software: http://ardour.org/ (still in beta but very useable)

'Ere's one, then:

I'm shopping 'round for a high-quality audio interface, for recording into Ardour.

The RME-Audio Fireface looked ( understatement-warning ) Ideal.

No Linux support.

I e-mailed 'em, asking about this, and was told that. . .

The chip in the thing isn't the standard chip, and making an OSS driver would compromise their IP, so it Would Not Happen, Period.

I pointed-out that they could make binary-drivers, then. . .

No response. . .

So, I'm instead committing-on Edirol's FA-101,
and hoping that FreeBob ( early-alpha ) is going to sufficiently-work on it ( or I'm going to be stuck dual-booting ), but am reasonably certain OSS, aka open evolution wins when competing against closed-evolution, when seen long-term. . .

I don't know if RME-Audio's made a "win-driver", like the software-modems, or if they've used a fpga, or what, or if the Reason is really a "reason" hiding political-commitment, but I cannot commit that much resources to something that is guaranteed to force me to live-in an OS I find obnoxious, so I finance their competitors, it seems. . . ( who don't support linux, but who don't stomp compatibility, at-least. . .

I simply don't know if it isn't possible for RME-Audio to open the spec without running into IP liability/damage, but have no-doubt that permitting the market to shift ( as Ardour is doing ) so-that it isn't controlled by the upstream companies is felt to be a threat by many companies' establishment, and I know that committing the work necessary for making binary-only-drivers costs: so I neither blame nor bless 'em for their predicament. . .

Particularly since anyone wanting to do pro-recording without paying the SW-tax ( to the tune of $1000 for OS + Ardour-equiv + AV/Firewall/Etc ) is going to have a significant advantage, and anyone who read the Tipping Point ( customer-tracking stripped URI ) is going to understand the implications of that pressure on the market. . .

This man speaks the truth.

Most M-Audio cards work with Linux ALSA and JACK. If you just want some decent audio output you can buy the Audiophile 24/96 for less than $100 at the store. It has SPDIF out as well.

The Mia card by Echo works as well.

RME has soundcards that work well with Linux too. They will get you some higher quality at a price.

i have a musical fidelity a3cr that is using a Hammerfall 'light' with the HDSP 9652 a/d conventer as the pre-amp.

its expensive stuff but sounds great! and there are linux drivers.

best
greg

i have a musical fidelity a3cr that is using a Hammerfall 'light' with the HDSP 9652 a/d conventer as the pre-amp.

its expensive stuff but sounds great! and there are linux drivers.

best
greg

Dude, even consumer gear gets WAY better than 80dB, a SB Extigy does better than 90dB (100dB rated) and Prosumer gear like the stuff from RME does real world 96dB, that's a lot better than all but the best studio analog equipment gets with regular maintenance (and most studio gear gets zero maintenance).

Not true.

I'm converted by philosophy, but not in practice.

I have this year installed a number of Linux distros (Red Hat, Gentoo, Mepis, Debian, Mandrake) and am yet to find one that recognises all of my hardware (my RME-DigiPST sound card proving impossible to get working) or fulfils all of my software requirements (a contact manager that can sync with both an Ericsson and Motorola phone for example).

I am still finding that each time I look at Linux that I lack things... be it something that replaces ID3-TagIt, or rips and encodes similar to EAC and LAME.

I've knocked together this Wiki page for the forum I run as several of us want to migrate. As you can see... it's not been updated in a while and the few unanswered questions are still unanswered.

Now, the point of this post is this... each time I have looked at Linux to date I find it is not quite ready, but that it is closer to being ready. Each time I find it easier to jump into, and easier to get started on and with fewer outstanding questions.

However... each time it has still failed to do everything I do with my computer. So I stay on Windows and think "maybe tomorrow"... and then get lazy.

When I'm lazy I stick to Windows, because it does work.

Then I read articles like this, which are preaching to the philosophically converted. Articles such as this remind me that I've yet to switch, remind me that I'm being lazy... they remind me that I had some unanaswered questions and that I should ask them again.

I personally think there is a lot of value in this. It's already put it back on my desk as a fun thing to do this afternoon (give Gentoo another try!).

Yes I am! It's a Asus A7N8X.

I had a look at the link, and that guy had SP1 and the ports connected wrong. It can't be that in my case, it worked before SP2.

Mind you this sounds familiar
http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52 009&highlight=sp2+firewire

I found an RME page that explains how to get the old SP1 drivers back.

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/fw800sp2 .htm

No, _MOTU_ are not ready for linux, that's their problem (and their customers')

But there are pro audio sound cards made by companies that actually support Linux.

Not that I'm suggesting you go and change your setup just so that you can run Linux. I can't see any sense in that myself, if your current setup works fine, there's no point in messing with it.
But don't make the blanket claim that it's not ready just because your brand doesn't support it.

If you want a simple, relatively small and quiet, two channel recording rig, with equivalent sound quality to this, I highly suggest buying a fucking Minidisc or DAT deck, a decent mixer, and a couple good mics. Then you can dump it to a machine with decent editing tools later.

And the best part? It is silent.

What the hell advantage does this system have over a DAT deck and a computer with editing software worth using? None, because its a two-track system using a consumer-level sound card. Any gains you might make in reducing hard drive chatter will be totally overwhelmed by the crap quality of your A/D subsystem.

This thing is barely suitable for use as a two-track tracking machine, and there's no reason to edit on this thing as opposed to a decent PC which won't run into disk space or flash write limitations.

2GB is a lot of data, but try working that in a professional studio- you can easy fill up 2GB with a half-hour of bad takes. If you're multitracking you can forget about it.

But I like the idea of lost-cost hardware. A VIA MII 12000 is more than adequate (CPU-power-wise) for even 8 simultaneous 16-bit ins and outs. What you're really going to want is a good audio card.

. It's like somebody trying to buy a backhoe and you suggesting "Why not use a shovel? They're smaller." Because it doesn't do the same thing! If you want to record the exact soundwave produced by a singer on a high note, and play exactly that back into your ear, then lossless compression is your only choice.

No, using your analogy, it's like saying, "hey, I need to dig a hole in the garden to plant the seeds for my corn. I think that I'll use my backhoe." When the hole that you need to make could be just as easily made with a shovel, and in probably a much more effecient manner.

You have to use the right tool for the job. There is little need for playback of lossless audio if your sources aren't good enough to hear the difference. Particularly when they are grossly inadequate. "Hey, I'm listening to lossless audio while I jog." Whoopdido... who cares. Does losslessly encoded audio improve that experience? Probably not.

Now, lossless audio through a proper system (meaning a real sound card, none of this Creative resampling stuff). With a really good set of speakers and/or head phones. Now that can make a difference.

For really good sound cards, look at Lynx Studio, RME Audio, or M-Audio to name a few off the top of my head.

Pure digital is too big, Flac is 2 to 3 times smaller, and therefore this device fills an essential niche: it gets your Flac files to your receiver without requiring a compact disc

2 to 3 times smaller? Not really. 1.5-2 times smaller is more like it. Audio has too much information to compress more than that. You get about 55-65% compression. And most of that is due to the fact that left and right channels of audio tend to be relatively similar.

I'll give you that it would allow you to get your FLAC files to a receiver, just that you aren't really benefitting greatly from the files, as the devices analog output will not be as good as it needs to be.

This is why Linux Audio Users should buy items like the RME Hammerfall cards.
(http://www.rme-audio.com/)

They have been open with doc, so there area ALSA drivers.

Free software isn't limited to cheap soundcards anymore.

The ProTools rigs sound good (especially the big ones with the hardware-based effects plug-ins), but they're way overpriced and the software is a little messy.

Then again, I was commissioned to compose a piece for a performance festival in Zurich, and ended up buying a Sound Blaster from a market in Istanbul (I love tight deadlines). It sounded a bit crappy compared to what I usually use, not surprisingly, but it did the job. (Look for the piece "Renewal" at MP3.com if you're at all curious; by contrast, the "Diffusion" piece there was done on a big ProTools rig.)

Very much so!

Though ~$600 for their lightest card seems a bit much. I'd be happy with plain-Jane two-channel recording with an ADC that doesn't suck.

You want quality audio in a PC? Go get a card made by these people, these people, these people, these people, these people, or these people. Then we'll talk.

They've got a great implementation of their product using a rackmountable audio interface and either PCI or PCMCIA cards to hook it up to a computer. A card and interface together are only marginally more than getting their all-in-one card, and then to buy a second card to use with the same interface is a lot cheaper.

This also takes care of another pet pieve of mine. Good AD/DA is the most expensive part of most components, so why spend a fortune on mediocre AD/DA in every digital component when you could just buy one good outboard AD/DA? They sell these as well...

They've got a great implementation of their product using a rackmountable audio interface and either PCI or PCMCIA cards to hook it up to a computer. A card and interface together are only marginally more than getting their all-in-one card, and then to buy a second card to use with the same interface is a lot cheaper.

This also takes care of another pet pieve of mine. Good AD/DA is the most expensive part of most components, so why spend a fortune on mediocre AD/DA in every digital component when you could just buy one good outboard AD/DA? They sell these as well...

They've got a great implementation of their product using a rackmountable audio interface and either PCI or PCMCIA cards to hook it up to a computer. A card and interface together are only marginally more than getting their all-in-one card, and then to buy a second card to use with the same interface is a lot cheaper.

This also takes care of another pet pieve of mine. Good AD/DA is the most expensive part of most components, so why spend a fortune on mediocre AD/DA in every digital component when you could just buy one good outboard AD/DA? They sell these as well...

I've been throwing around a plan to construct a case that fits in the footprint of my Hitatchi DVD player..

say.. 7 inches tall, 16 wide/10 deep or so, large enough to fit a decently powerful PC (probably Tualatin 1.2Ghz + ATI 8500 AIW + TV card + something like one of these for sound output, as a hometheater/console replacement/hifi replacement box..

Preferably I'd be able to let it just dissipate heat off passively.. (hence the Tualatin)

using this sort of front panel aesthetic

hmm... after a quick check both Midiman and RME have linux support (or are supported).

Now I don't know about you, but RME is better than any of the brands you mentioned (In my opinion of course). And motu doesn't write very good drivers for any platform. But that's beside the point.

The Mac is not going to last forever as the leader of this race. Steinberg Canada has already stated that Windows 2000 is their preferred platform for stability and speed. Not to mention price of course (not the price of windows but the hardware).
I've talked to several Yamaha Techs from Japan who say the same thing.

Now I agree with you that OSX kicks ass in many ways. But Linux on a PC kicks even more ass. The raw speed, the choice of hardware, and the *ahem* choice of OS.

Ardour is a great package. I've used audacity as well but I think Ardour is (will be) more suited to professional studio work.

And even though their web-page has a really offensive Explorer-type look, the HME audio cards work really well, from what I've been told. It will be a year or so before I can afford one...

I'll be putting my money in an RME DIGI9652 "Hammerfall" (www.rme-audio.com). This one offers 24 optical digital ins and outs, S/PDIF in and out, external synchronisation and zero latency monitoring.

Unless Yamaha comes out first with a FireWire/mLAN card for my mixing desk, that is.

There's really no use for me to invest in a new Amiga, when extending my current PC or even buying a dual processor system is eventually the cheaper solution.

The Amiga is at a dead end. It just took some years for it to figure that out.