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Then thank you for the job you do.

The "other" nursing specialties do require more training and that's part of their career path (like everyone else). Primary Care Nurse Practioners make on national average $69K. I dated a NP for 7 years (she was a "floor RN" for four of those years), she now makes $85K and a friend of hers is a NP for a hospital specialty department and makes $100K. The friend has no call and the former gf gets paid extra for each weekend she works ($1500 for Fri to Sun--double that if it's a holiday). The median salary for a CRNA is $118K.

Unlike many 9-5 jobs (or 7-3), many jobs in the medical profession are not 40-hour weeks. Many are much more (especially if you count call nights/weekends). When I was a resident, an 80-hour week was considered short (this was of course before resident hour limitations initiated in New York).

Then thank you for the job you do.

The "other" nursing specialties do require more training and that's part of their career path (like everyone else). Primary Care Nurse Practioners make on national average $69K. I dated a NP for 7 years (she was a "floor RN" for four of those years), she now makes $85K and a friend of hers is a NP for a hospital specialty department and makes $100K. The friend has no call and the former gf gets paid extra for each weekend she works ($1500 for Fri to Sun--double that if it's a holiday). The median salary for a CRNA is $118K.

Unlike many 9-5 jobs (or 7-3), many jobs in the medical profession are not 40-hour weeks. Many are much more (especially if you count call nights/weekends). When I was a resident, an 80-hour week was considered short (this was of course before resident hour limitations initiated in New York).

If there's disrespect among mid and upper-level providers (MD's and other staff) toward nurses perhaps it's because of a lack of understanding of each other's tasks / responsibilities / liabilities / time demands. While it's true that nurses have a very tough job for 8-12 hours/day, other providers also have difficult jobs.

As to nurses "fleeing" the profession, I'm surprised as there are numerous articles describing the flock of women and men TO the nursing profession and the 2-year wait to be accepted into many nursing schools.

While they may not be living in a life of luxury, 60 grand still is a nice salary right out of college.

While they may not be living in a life of luxury, 60 grand still is a nice salary right out of college.

And BTW, the problem with teachers is not that their pay rate is too low, in fact it is rather high. The problem is with the available hours. They only get to work 10 months a year, which means at the end of the year they don't take home as much as someone who works year round. That and salarly is based solely on experience, not performance. Thus the old crabby teachers that havn't been in school since the 70's make a lot while the young ones who kids relate to make much less.

Nearly 50 grand right out of college to sit at a computer typing code? Actually I was saying (as opposed to implying) it is overpaid, not underpaid.

"there is, however, something keeping you from getting a new job and thus being able to pay your bills - this something is called a shitty economy. maybe you've heard of it?"

Are you saying that one of the lowest unemployment rates of all time (the fact that it is higher than during the .com boom means nothing) is a shitty economy?

According to salary.com the average national (US) wage for a software engineering consultant after 5 years experience is $77,481-$95,699 - Which sounds like pleanty enough to me.

Why does HotJobs (hotjobs.salary.com) say Software Engineer III is making 90k in SF? Who has all these jobs? And I look at the job posts all the time and there are many jobs... I don't understand...

This long ugly link works for me: http://hotjobs.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscrip ts/swzl_compresult.asp?zipcode=94114&metrocode=156 &statecode=CA&state=California&metro=San+Francisco &city=San+Francisco&geo=San+Francisco%2C+CA+94114& jobtitle=Software+Engineer+III&search=&narrowdesc= IT+--+Computers%2C+Software&narrowcode=IT05&r=hotj bs_swzttsbtn_psr&p=&geocode=&jobcode=IT10000003&al tername=Enter+search+term

One can name over a dozen OSes that garnered the famed Class B1 Trusted OSes status that provided this feature set since 1983. Most of them will never see the light of days due to their classified status.

Perhaps, the U.S. Patent Office should consider investigating for possible industrial payola to their underpaid $60,000/yr GS-5 ranking corporate-rejecting $125K real bad diploma-milled reviewers.

Want more than anicdotal evidence? Check out any number of salary surveys that are out there, or go to Salary.com. I just checked my zip code & job title and I should be making:

Client/Server Programmer IV (6 - 8 Years XP)

25th%ile Median 75th%ile

$77,461 $85,763 $95,411

Dude, it sounds like you might want to look at getting a raise if you think this is over the top.

"The median expected salary for a typical Programmer III in Seattle, WA, is $73,392."
Found it here

The ideas of licensing and patenting and copyrighting were all originally conceived as a communal, societal gift to innovators; an acknowledgement that you can't own an idea but "we'll let you make some money off it anyways."

I would expect that period of money-making would be longer than a couple of years.

Information wants to be free.

Perhaps, but technical writers want to be $43,314 a year.

Just a data point: I graduated college with a BSEE degree in fall 1988 and started working pretty much the first of the year in 1989. My starting salary working in the Chicago area was $32k. Using the Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator that works out to about $47k in 2003 dollars.

At the time $32k was considered slightly above average for starting pay for an engineer. On the other hand, engineers were in higher demand then. These days I'd think $40k would be about average.

According to this Salary Wizard the US national average pay for a "Software Engineer I" is $52,364. Take that however you want. It sounds pretty high to me.

Check Salary.com to get a pretty good idea based on your skillset. It doesn't hurt to check with monster/dice/computerjobs/etc but the ranges listed there are often meaningless. Salary.com is generic enough that there will be some flux in rates, but it's a good general guide. For example, in my city Programmer I (entry level programmer, fresh out of college for example) is going to make between $42K and $55K/yr. Frankly, that sounds high for someone right out of college, but in some markets that's the going rate. To put it in perspective, the median US *household* income (meaning this includes dual income families) is $42K/yr so right out of the gate you're doing better than most people.

Head over to Salary.com, choose 'entry level', then 'programer I'. I selected DC as an example. Came up with 45k to 57k, with 50k as the median. You can go there and choose other locations as well. The link below gives you a direct link to the site with those options selected. Along with bonuses and benifits.

Link

You may find Salary.Com useful. I find it useful when trying to determine median salaries.

I also wouldn't be afraid to tell an employer that the offer it made was below market value for the position. You will never have more bargaining power with an employer regarding your salary than you do before you accept the position. Don't forget - it costs employers $$ to recruit and interview. If you got an offer, the employer wants you and is most likely willing to pay a fair price for your services. The trick is making sure you know what a fair price is.

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You can search through the results of their ongoing salary surveys based on area of the country. The information you get there will surely be better than single anecdotes from Slashdotters.

All in all, things aren't looking too good for entry level programmers compared to just a few years ago. You're probably a leg up on most of your competition just by having two offers.

Salary Wizard.

Here.

Honestly, until something is seriously done by the government and companies (determing a percentage that can be offshored, completely redoing the tariffs in the so-called "free trade" agreements, etc.), it's difficult to make a case for going to a college or university. To train for what? Everyone behind a desk is vulnerable to being offshored.

Yes, white collar jobs are now vulnerable to off-shoring - but far more blue collar jobs have already been off-shored. There's a reason why factory payrolls just declined for the 42nd straight month, even as total payrolls in the US increased.

Besides, off-shoring isn't the only factor in the job market. Over all, it pays to get a college degree. According to surveys (see article) the average college graduate makes $17,000 more per year than the average high school graduate. Even if you go to an expensive private college at $35,000 per year, you still more than make back that cost over the course of your career.

> Sure, I'll pay their salary. Six dollars per day, and not a penny more.

1) Be realistic.
$6 per day is a 1789 figure. Adjusted for inflation we get $120/day.

2) Be generous.
Let's assume those representative work 365 days/year. That gives us $43,800/year.

3) Be critical.
For comparison, a programmer with zero experience who "Relies on instructions and pre-established guidelines to perform the functions of the job. Works under immediate supervision. Primary job functions do not typically require exercising independent judgment" gets a base salary around $46K.

You do not want the job to be so unattractive to people with half a brain that nobody would want it.

> Then the rest of the year, Congressmen can hold jobs where they produce something other than red tape.

Can you say "conflicts of interests"?

Salary.com
Gives you salaries by state, including Puerto RIco (where I live) on a variety of tech and non-tech job. Although it doesn't feature international salaries (that I remember); it should give you a good idea of what you may ask for.

OBS

While it's only for the US (that I can see) Salary.com is a pretty useful site.

We'll see just how helpful it is tomorrow, I'm asking for a raise...

Salary.com
I am not sure how accurate they are:

JobSmart's Salary Surveys

Pencom Systems Incorporated: Interactive Salary Guide

SalaryZone

http://www.realrates.com

Are there any others and how accurate are they? Thanks. :)