Slashdot Mirror

These guys built one that works http://www.servalproject.org/

http://www.servalproject.org/ These guys wrote their own protocol to solve the problem you are discussing.

Already has. You can download it now. http://www.servalproject.org/

Someone already built it and you can download it for free. It is also open source. http://www.servalproject.org/

... but as some already said, it's just an app more...
If really you want to see what an actual, independent mesh network can be, please go to http://www.servalproject.org/
And yes there is an app :-D
But this one, works -including from tablets with no SIMcard inside.
IMHO the only issue is, this will become useable only when thousands will run it, including some in your neigborhood...

They can easily redirect "legitimate traffic" to "legitimate destinations". You will not deviate from the path. No matter what you dream up, as long as you use their wire, you are at their mercy. And deep packet inspections are already quite normal and regular. What is your difficulty? When your service is crippled, ad hoc is the only way. I figure, what the hell, why not carry a little insurance? This is how the network evolves, right?

http://www.servalproject.org/ through limited range by the use of WiFi, in a city can have a great coverage due to its P2P nature.

If you could run asterisk on your handheld, then you could reasonably just connect it to a SIP trunk and get the same functionality for $8/mo. Anyone know anyone working on an asterisk port to Android? I heard that the Serval Project has done it. But what I think is needed is just an asterisk APK with asterisk and a simple config GUI that gives enough functionality to just get basic trunking working. Voicemail would be stored on the phone itself in this case, which would also be very cool.

Maybe I should explore the NDK finally

Don't we already have a tech called bluetooth for that?

Bluetooth doesn't handle phone-calls or SMS. That and that it's generally just a goddam trainwreck - I admit that, on occasion, it will actually work.

The nearest thing I know of is the Serval project.

The OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) project had this capability from the start. Their normal setup is a flock of laptops with only wireless comm hardware, all talking to and relaying messages for their neighbors, plus a wired machine somewhere in the area that provides access to the outside world.

Actually, this was the intended "normal" situation back in the ARPAnet era. It didn't make sense to the military funders to rely on a single relay machine that would be an easy target. But suppliers of the commercial Internet never liked the idea, because they've always wanted to charge customers for every device with access. A flock of devices using a single member's Internet access was explicitly banned at first because of this. As they slowly realized that they couldn't continue to hold the Internet back that way, they switched to the approach of software that hands packets to a single router/gateway box, and not directly to any neighbor.

We still see this very clearly with email, which on most customers' gadgets requires sending a message to an email "server" (typically on an ISP's machine), rather than directly to the target machine. If members of your family want to send messages to each other's gadgets, do the messages go directly to their machine? Or do they go to an address on some company's machine, which tells the recipient that they have a message? This isn't accidental; it's done that way so that the company has access to all your messages, and you have to continue to pay them or lose the ability to send messages to people within your own household.

This isn't necessarily silly. I live in a house with 3 floors (plus a basement ;-). Such verticaly houses are fairly common here in New England. My wife's "home office" is in the (half-size) top floor, a finished attic actually, and if I'm working a couple of floors lower, messages like "Lunch?" or "Mail's here" are much faster by email or IM than by running up and down stairs. It's often annoying when local IP packet storms (especially at lunch/dinner time) interfere with delivery of such messages. This sort of "insignificant" traffic would work better if the original machine-to-machine design were implemented. But the commercial ISP market would lose if they couldn't charge for (and read) such traffic, so we can expect them to fight it.

Don't we already have a tech called bluetooth for that?

Bluetooth doesn't handle phone-calls or SMS. That and that it's generally just a goddam trainwreck - I admit that, on occasion, it will actually work.

The nearest thing I know of is the Serval project.

"... carriers will control ..."

I highly doubt there will be an exposed API at the application layer, without paying the carrier in some fashion. You would still be using the carrier's licensed spectrum and they'll be heavily involved in the process.

I haven't found any information about how access to the spectrum is managed, or if this Direct mode can work without a nearby tower.

Pity, as this is exactly what applications like the Serval would like to use for long range / low power communications.

From: http://www.servalproject.org/ and http://developer.servalproject...
---
"Serval Mesh is an Android app that provides highly secure mesh networking, voice calls, text messaging and file sharing between mobile phones using Wi-Fi, without the need for a SIM or any other infrastructure like mobile cell towers, Wi-Fi hotspots or Internet access."
1. Communicate anytime
Mobile phones stop working when cellular infrastructure fails. The Serval Mesh changes this, allowing mobile phones to form impromptu networks consisting only of phones. This allows people nearby to keep communicating when needed most.
2. Communicate anywhere
Cellular networks are not available everywhere. In Australia for example, around 75% of the land area lacks mobile coverage. Letting mobile phones form stand-alone networks provides a cost-effective solution for communities in these remote areas to enjoy mobile communications.
3. Communicate privately
In this modern world private conversation with friends, families and service providers is vital, whether discussing medical issues or other private subjects. The Serval Mesh is built on a foundation engineered to support security. Voice calls and text messages are always end-to-end encrypted using strong 256-bit ECC cryptography. Encrypted calls work even on low-cost Android phones.
4.Communicate with people
The Serval Mesh is about enabling people to communicate with one another, regardless of what circumstances may befall them, or where they live in the world. Because at the end of the day, relationship with one another is what life is all about.
---

Serval was one of the first things I installed on a trio of cheap Android phones I bought for Andriod development and testing purposes several months ago (the Kyocera Hydro phones themselves ranged from US$35-$55 in price each). Still has rough edges, but getting there.

The Serval project is also working towards cheap rugged repeaters. "The Serval Mesh Extender is a hardware device that helps other devices to join and participate in a Serval Mesh network. ... Mesh Extenders mesh together over short distances using Ad Hoc Wi-Fi, over longer distances using packet radio on the ISM 915 MHz band"

I suggested related ideas back around 2000 based on two-mile range radios:
"[unrev-II] The DKR hardware I'd like to make..."
http://www.dougengelbart.org/c...

Very cheap insurance to make sure people have these sorts of devices for an emergency, which these days would not cost much more than a decent US$100 "weather radio" even with basic Smartphone features...

From: http://www.servalproject.org/ and http://developer.servalproject...
---
"Serval Mesh is an Android app that provides highly secure mesh networking, voice calls, text messaging and file sharing between mobile phones using Wi-Fi, without the need for a SIM or any other infrastructure like mobile cell towers, Wi-Fi hotspots or Internet access."
1. Communicate anytime
Mobile phones stop working when cellular infrastructure fails. The Serval Mesh changes this, allowing mobile phones to form impromptu networks consisting only of phones. This allows people nearby to keep communicating when needed most.
2. Communicate anywhere
Cellular networks are not available everywhere. In Australia for example, around 75% of the land area lacks mobile coverage. Letting mobile phones form stand-alone networks provides a cost-effective solution for communities in these remote areas to enjoy mobile communications.
3. Communicate privately
In this modern world private conversation with friends, families and service providers is vital, whether discussing medical issues or other private subjects. The Serval Mesh is built on a foundation engineered to support security. Voice calls and text messages are always end-to-end encrypted using strong 256-bit ECC cryptography. Encrypted calls work even on low-cost Android phones.
4.Communicate with people
The Serval Mesh is about enabling people to communicate with one another, regardless of what circumstances may befall them, or where they live in the world. Because at the end of the day, relationship with one another is what life is all about.
---

Serval was one of the first things I installed on a trio of cheap Android phones I bought for Andriod development and testing purposes several months ago (the Kyocera Hydro phones themselves ranged from US$35-$55 in price each). Still has rough edges, but getting there.

The Serval project is also working towards cheap rugged repeaters. "The Serval Mesh Extender is a hardware device that helps other devices to join and participate in a Serval Mesh network. ... Mesh Extenders mesh together over short distances using Ad Hoc Wi-Fi, over longer distances using packet radio on the ISM 915 MHz band"

I suggested related ideas back around 2000 based on two-mile range radios:
"[unrev-II] The DKR hardware I'd like to make..."
http://www.dougengelbart.org/c...

Very cheap insurance to make sure people have these sorts of devices for an emergency, which these days would not cost much more than a decent US$100 "weather radio" even with basic Smartphone features...

http://mobile.slashdot.org/sto...

That reference is to link this to a broader discussion. It's true the $30 Kyocera Hydro phone from Amazon is only for Boost Mobile -- but you don't need to activate it or sign a contract to buy it. If you use it as WiFi only, that is all you pay. One of the first apps we installed was a work in progress for disaster relief agencies and others called Serval Mesh which does direct phone-to-phone WiFi.
http://www.servalproject.org/
"Simply put, Serval is a telecommunications system comprised of at least two mobile phones that are able to work outside of regular mobile phone tower range due thanks to the Serval App and Serval Mesh. "

So, I think the low US$30 cost for the Hydro from Amazon shows what is possible. And that new Slashdot article sounds like an exploration of it. This is a broad trend related to Moore's law that I (and many others) have been talking about for years.

More by me on that from 2000:
"[unrev-II] Singularity in twenty to forty years?"
http://www.dougengelbart.org/c...
" Commtech -- Twenty years to ubiquitous cheap wireless communications
Source: This is already happening now with cell phones, but needs time to percolate throughout the world. "

Or more recently from 2008:
http://www.pdfernhout.net/post...
"Wikipedia. GNU/Linux. WordNet. Google. These things were not on the visible horizon to most of us even as little as twenty years ago. Now they have remade huge aspects of how we live. Are these free-to-the-user informational products and services all there is to be on the internet or are they the tip of a metaphorical iceberg of free stuff and free services that is heading our way? Or even, via projects like the RepRap 3D printer under development, are free physical objects someday heading into our homes? If a "post-scarcity" iceberg is coming, are our older scarcity-oriented social institutions prepared to survive it? Or like the Titanic, will these social institutions sink once the full force of the iceberg contacts them? And will they start taking on water even if just dinged by little chunks of sea ice like the cheap $100 laptops that are ahead of the main iceberg?"

I suggest in that one that the current cost of Princeton University hoarding its endowment is that it could have bought $100 OLPC-like computers for a couple hundred million poor families (assume five people each, for the bottom billion) in the world to give them access to education via the internet (like via Khan Academy). Or you could now buy Hydro phones for a the bottom billion families and pre-load them with WIkipeida. That shows how much the socio-economic landscape revolving around knowledge and privilege has changed given the playing out of Moore's law.

So, with or without Firefox OS, these trends are happening. What is frustrating about this is to see what is possible materially, but then see out socio-economic processes shaping that into something so much less than it could be (by increasing the rich-poor divide by always choosing the design that better supports central control with a gatekeeper who can monetize it). But that is also why it is so frustrating to see Mozilla with an idealistically better mission get a billion dollars recently and then so far have so little to show for it (other than a "me too" version of Android and WebOS) -- while also letting innovation in Thunderbird and Firefox seemingly grind to a halt.

As others have said, if you want to free Android users, you need to make a good suite of free apps and services, and even that is not enough because the phone carriers control the lowest layer of connection. Firefox OS by itself does not solve that problem. And it still leaves Android

yesterday's hardware does what 99% of end users want.

When the hardware gets good enough, we won't need carriers. That's something to look forward to.

Reminds me, I haven't looked in on Serval lately. Last I checked power consumption was one of the major blockers...

http://www.servalproject.org/

This is an objective of the Serval Project. Our Serval Mesh software for android currently provides secure voice / chat / file distribution over local networks. But since Wi-Fi has such lousy range, we're also planning to build and sell small Wi-Fi routers with 915MHz ISM band radios for long range / low bandwidth links.

While we're focused on local communications in places where the infrastructure is down / never existed / can't be trusted, with the addition of a Distributed Hash Table, we could provide services over the internet.

See http://developer.servalproject.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=content:servalmesh:main_page

They could just use Android phones with the Serval Project mesh network app installed on them.

they should talk to the Serval project people

http://www.servalproject.org/

Nor will Warner Bros., given the name of one of the projects involved in this effort:

I think the Serval Project would have more right to be concerned, given that it is their work that's being hidden behind the advertising-ridden link from TFA.

It's also unsettling that work from a community project, intended to improve communications for people in need, is in the process of being "embraced" by an organisation like Mitre, funded by, and heavily tied into US Government and military.

Ad-hoc mesh networks do have the potential to be a game changer in a number of arenas. US government involvement this early is a bad sign for their future.

Reminds me of the Serval Batphone. In fact, this sounds like a slightly more ambitious version of the exact same premise (Disaster area phone-to-phone [heh, P2P] communication via mesh).

So similar to the set of services that the Serval Project (my current employer) is aiming to deliver? But it costs $20 a month, and it only works when you have a viable internet connection to their servers?

When the Serval product set grows to include an internet directory service, I'm certain we'll be able to run it for less than $20 a month. Probably for less than $20 a year.

The Serval Project on the Android Market.

Our focus is on providing useful services without any reliance on fixed infrastructure. Phone calls and text messaging via adhoc mesh, and even file distribution in the field.

Though you might find our next release more suitable than the version on the market. It's still in heavy development, but would also allow phone calls to be relayed to the PSTN via an asterisk PBX. We'd be happy to provide an alpha version and help you to get the most use out of it.

We're also working on a separate application that uses open street map data for situational awareness and collaborative mapping.

The Serval Project is aiming to do exactly this (disclosure, I'm working for them ATM). Use the Wifi chip in android phones to create an adhoc network for situations where the phone network is down or non-existent. It's still alpha quality at this point, but we're working on phone calls, text messaging and file distribution using strong cryptography, without any central administration or infrastructure. And we're planning to use our file distribution system for a bunch of other services like collaborative mapping.

The great folks at The Serval Project are working on that and we're keeping a close eye on their work.
http://www.servalproject.org/

This wasn't really about a working radio system. It was about moving public money to private businesses.

Of course.

In fact it'd be much better for everybody, including emergency services, if everybody switched over to mesh communications (like the Serval project http://www.servalproject.org/about/how-it-works). It'll never happen though, because decentralised systems don't allow for ongoing billing.

this makes so much more sense.

and also http://www.servalproject.org/

yes, it would.

like http://www.servalproject.org/ (there's also an app)

Communicate anywhere, any time without infrastructure, without mobile towers, without satellites, without wifi hotspots, and without carriers. Use existing off-the-shelf mobile cell phone handsets. Use your existing mobile phone number wherever you go, and never pay roaming charges again. Communications should not just be for the fortunate — communication should be freely available to everyone, because we believe communication should be a human right. Serval enables mobile communications no matter what your circumstance: mobile communications in the face of disaster, in the face of poverty, in the face of isolation, in the face of civil unrest, or in the face of network black-spots. In short, Serval provides resilient mobile communications for all people, anywhere in the universe. Serval technology bridges the digital divide. We have proved that it is possible, using open source technology to create a mobile communications platform that benefits everyone, for all time, and changes the nature of telecommunications forever.

It just means that, finally, tor, i2p, and their ilk will have uses other than cp. Welcome to the net within the net and the new, free century. There's much fun to be had. Also, don't buy "mobile internet". That's just stupid. Take a look at Serval.

Hi, I'm working for The Serval Project, and like other projects related to wifi mesh routing, we do have high level goals like this. And we're actively trying to make them a reality.

One of our staff just returned from a presentation to IEEE, to propose a more open standard for the next 802.11 spec.

The basic premise of our proposal is that the protocol for using wifi devices to route traffic should be dealt with in kernel or user space. Not in the radio spec. And that adhoc, and 802.11s are useless for this task (Damn you BSSID, why you change?). We also think that security and perhaps even error correction should be dealt with via a VPN or baked into the application layer.

We want the next wireless spec to include a basic packet radio mode, operating in any unlicensed white-space spectrum, that gives as much control as possible to higher levels of the OS. So that new interesting ideas are easier to experiment with and implement.

And we've been invited to the next IEEE working group to help make it happen.

At The Serval Project, among our other phone / adhoc mesh networking projects, we are working on a GPL solution for live streaming video from android phones. We've recently made some progress and the source should be available at some point in the near future if anyone is interested in helping or using it for other projects.

I'd rather have a phone that has a software-swappable identifier that handshakes with the tower

I don't even want the tower...
http://www.servalproject.org/how-it-works

Actually some there are projects which aim to do just that, like Serval.

And with a Batphone you can use a local adhoc wifi mesh network for peer-to-peer call routing. Eliminating the need to a telco controlled cell network as well.