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Per Wikipedia Irrlicht was released on Ohr Records (some about them here - "Later OHR Records turned into the Cosmic Music label". There is an article on Cosmic Music. I found http://www.cosmic-music.com/ but the babelfish translation of the site's history page (browsing there left as an exercise to the reader) says nothing about Ohr, so I am forced to conclude that it is the wrong label (and it looked indie anyway.) So anyway I lost the trail here. Can anyone pick it up?

Instead of writing crappy music and trying to be superstars by selling their souls to the record company, maybe they could try writing honest music and making an honest living off it. It is possible.

I thought Kepone was a band?

From my small part of the world: Sub Pop, Ninja Tune, Eighteenth Street Lounge, Matador, Kill Rock Stars, That Ann DiFranco lable (can't think of it now) and many more.

Let me add Dischord and Southern Records to your list, two more really great non-RIAA labels.

unsigned? i think you mean non-riaa-signed. there are lots and lots of non-riaa labels run by folks who sign bands because they like the music, not the sales projections.

if yr looking for non-riaa music, try:

cd baby
the associatio of inedependent record labels
riaa radar
southern records
your local college radio station
or my local college station

that should keep you busy... and the riaa labels idle.

i know im gonna get modded as a troll for saying this, but seriously, who cares? ive looked through the riaa members list, and as far as im concerned, none of the "music" they own is worth a damn anyway. all of those labels produce the same recycled garbage. rather than complain that you cant hear the latest backstreet boys or britany spears single for free on the net, do a little research and do YOURSELF a favor by giving some of the indie labels a chance. ill even give you good place to start. support the REAL musicians!

Xerox has a history of failing to commercialise great ideas developed inside PARC

Rrowr is right!

But aside from her roles as producer, host, and hottie, did you know she was in a band called Marine Research?

1.) Go to a show where a band you like is playing.
2.) Strike up a conversation with someone there and ask them which band they're there to see (opening act? Local band? Headliner?).
3.) Tell them that you're dying to hear some new music. Have they heard anything new and exciting recently? Virtually everyone that goes to shows has something on their playlist that they want to share.
4a.) Put an ear to some of the suggestions. Were any of the other bands playing that night any good? Listen to them too. If you find one that gets you, find out when they're coming to town. Repeat.
4b.) Look in your local indie paper for articles about local acts. Visit them randomly and talk to people in the bands that you like. Often they just played/toured with some other good band and are more than happy to talk about it. Find out the good places to see a show and just start going there and drinking.
(5.) ??? 6.) Profit!)

Seriously, this isn't a 'get out and get a life' post, this is how I've found most of the bands I listen to. It's all well and good to find good bands via websites or on Kazaa, but a ton of really great stuff still falls through the cracks. Just my opinion, could be wrong.

check them out:
matador
dischord
touch and go
mint
southern
merge
alternative tentacles

or, for the fast route, hit the google listing of record labels:

http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Music/Record_ Labels/

What about independent labels? Check out Touch and Go or Thrill Jockey.

...a band called UI. 2 bass one drummer...they've just added a fourth band member and have a new album out. My favorite is still their 'Sidelong' album.

Band site

The sad thing is that the radio stations don't even ASK the public about what they like! I used to work for a small radio station and there was this interesting conversation I had to have with major labels every week, it went kinda like this:
Major Label(ML): I've noticed our band is not in your (billboard)top ten.
Program Manager(PM): yup, people haven't requested it (because it sucks).
ML: what would it take to get the band into the top ten?
PM: (now here is where I fill in my 'wish' card) I would need to do some promotions, how about a stack of CDs T-shirts and a signed item or backstage passes.
*A bit of dickering, later*
ML: OK well send that stuff out to you and we HOPE that this'll get us into the top ten.

This conversation would then occur again to try and get their bands closer to number one - that's when the anty gets upped. You can then ask for interviews, and probably other interesting stuff - and get it. Don't think that all of this stuff is handed directly to the listeners...most are divied up by the radio station owners and the sloppy seconds are relagated to promotions.

I quiver to think of what the offerings are to larger (real) radio stations! It's sad when thinking that labels who put out some really good product *cough* Thrilljockey, Touch and Go *cough* can't compete.

So, the moral of the story is that sometimes 'payola' is not money, but 'promotional goods'.
*Now that I've divulged this sensitive information , this may be the last time you hear from me before my door gets busted down.

On the topic of independent bands, the prototypical fiercely independent band that everyone should be listening to, if they aren't already, is Fugazi. Their music is incredible and they've held to their principles for fifteen years (I saw them here last year, only $5 and they played for over two hours!). Dischord Records, started by singer/guitarist Ian Mackaye is the model for independent labels. Check them out.

Also, a little semi-local plug, if you liked the Refreshments ("Down Together", "Banditos", and the theme song from "King of the Hill"), check out Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers (Roger was the lead singer of the Refreshments).

-J

Die Eier von Satan

Eine halbe Tasse Staubzucker
Ein Viertel Teelöffel Salz
Eine Messerspitze türkisches Haschisch
Ein halbes Pfund Butter
Ein Teelöffel Vanillenzucker
Ein halbes Pfund Mehl
Einhundertfünfzig Gramm gemahlene Nüsse
Ein wenig extra Staubzucker
... und keine Eier

In eine Schüssel geben
Butter einrühren
Gemahlene Nüsse zugeben und
Den Teig verkneten
Augenballgroße Stücke vom Teig formen
Im Staubzucker wälzen und
Sagt die Zauberwörter
Simsalbimbamba Saladu Saladim

Auf ein gefettetes Backblech legen und
Bei zweihundert Grad für fünfzehn Minuten backen und
KEINE
EIER

Bei zweihundert Grad für fünfzehn Minuten backen und Keine Eier ..

They should be censored for all eternity.

Note to those who will say that I'm a dirty rotten no good pirate: I don't pirate music. I simply buy from indie labels. At least then, I'm sure that the artist gets most of my money.

I grew up on college radio (Rutgers and Princeton). Here is an article about my one of my favorite labels, Touch 'n Go Records. Current or past home of Steve Albini (Big Black, Rapeman, Jesus Lizard, Shellac), Butthole Surfers, Wedding Present and more. Apparently the Butthole Surfers tried to take over the distribution rights to their old albums (mmmm... Locust Abortion Technician) and the Touch n Go said "no way, I own the distro rights forever. that's how I make money." Made me think twice even about indie labels.

For a diatribe by "the greatest songwriter of all time"(tm) Steve Albini, visit Negativland's website.

In classic Big Black style, the liner notes for the Rapeman album "Two Nuns and a Pack Mule" contained descriptions of the songs instead of the lyrics. For "Steak and Black Onions", he wrote "We don't hate vegetarians. We just think they're funny."

The big issue right now all over seems to be how to go about retaliating to this tragedy. I am rather offended by the people that quickly say that we should bomb the snot out of all the people involved without thinking anything over.

I really thing this incident is attempted murder of capitolism and really should be dealt with as such. The US has been stepping on so many countries for so long that this catastrophe was long in the making. Why else would they pick the WTC? Law enforcement is a substitute for a dysfunctional system of government. Until our government becomes perfect, law enforcement will be necessary to some degree, but with this situation I believe we need to work on our system and not our intelligence agencies.

If you weren't aware, the US is frowned upon for executing such a minimal amount of prisoners each year by Europe, one of our major trade partners. The death penelty is seen as a form of revenge, or murder. Europe believes that revenge should be left behind in the past with the middle ages. Even from a capitolist standpoint, going ahead with a massive revenge campaign would cut down on so many trade options.

Instead of retaliating with force, I believe we have to retaliate with change. We need to work with other nations without profits in mind. Our nation needs to work toward a system of Marxist Communism where everyone helps each other without personal benifit in mind. Once we are done getting New York back in order, don't stop there! There are so many things in your community you could do to help out. Contribute without monatary or religious reasons.

Right now I see the US similar to the Nazi's. We try to be in complete control of everything, maybe not as severe as the Nazi's, but we still try to clear a space for ourselves to lead perfect worry free lives, and everything that is wrong we try to put out of view, much like the 1950's. This is our awakening that everything isn't perfect. The world is too large, it is too difficult to have complete control over. People can't be stopped from not fitting in the system. Eventually the lowest class will take on the highest.

Finally the underdog has giving us a taste of the tragedy, like what is everpresent in their own lives. Finally the rich that worked in the WTC have been pulled from their perfect lives and shoved into a catastrophe. I agree with the goal of the hijacking, although I am completely opposed to the means they used to prove their point. It's so very sad that so many people had to die today, but revenge isn't the way to set things right. I hope I might have convinced some of you.

-cybrpnkr, a dumbass suburbian kid from the midwest

Suggested Reading:
A Series of Shock Slogans and Mindless Token Tantrums

A document by the 1st wave punk band crass, describing how to live in global unity through anarchy. Some of it is conspiracy theory, although much can be learned from it.

BEGIN_RANT

MPAA has a monolopy on DVD licensing, RIAA has a monolopy on music radio play (try to get a radio station to play music from a label that isn't part of the RIAA, ever hear Fugazi on the radio? I didn't think so. They regularly presell 300-400 Thousand records) and yet they can hide behind the DMCA to protect their monolopies.

With Realplayer, it's even more absurd. What exactly is copyrighted? The files? What if I created a RealPlayer based video, can I play it on anything I wanted or do they have the copyright on it? Do they have a copyright on the format? How can you copyright a format? Did they do this because they can't patent it? Isn't this all just abuse?

We have morons running the country who get paid by these fools during reelection who think that somehow having the ability to play DVD's or Realplayer files on the our choice of player is a bad idea, and having a monolopy having near 100% control over the music on the radio is a good idea.

Vote the bastards out

/BEGIN_RANT

More to the point why are CD's from labels like Discord, K Records, Kill Rock Stars, Thrill Jockey, and Touch and Go so much cheaper???

In part because the people working at these labels - from the owners on down - make a lot less money and work a lot more hours. And somehow they still manage to give their artists better contracts (usually ~50% of profits). Small is beautiful - support your local record store, & support small labels. Of course when it comes down to it most Napster fans really just want their corporate crap music by numbers...

More to the point why are CD's from labels like Discord, K Records, Kill Rock Stars, Thrill Jockey, and Touch and Go so much cheaper???

In part because the people working at these labels - from the owners on down - make a lot less money and work a lot more hours. And somehow they still manage to give their artists better contracts (usually ~50% of profits). Small is beautiful - support your local record store, & support small labels. Of course when it comes down to it most Napster fans really just want their corporate crap music by numbers...

Someone mentioned Mordam as a good indie-rock distributer. Southern Records is another. Better yet, get away from your computer and go to a live show!

TGL

They are on the Dischord Records, a big independent non-RIAA label from Washington DC. Fugazi's their best-known act (over a million recordings sold without major-label assistance!), but they've put out plenty of other acts, including they some classic hardcore punk (esp. Minor Threat & the Flex Your Head compilation).

If you like alterna-rock & punk rock, try Dischord's Web home. You might be surprised....

I like fugazi. A lot. Go to Southern Records website for a directory of all the best and least RIAA affiliated bands and lables in the world.

Chris

I like fugazi. A lot. Go to Southern Records website for a directory of all the best and least RIAA affiliated bands and lables in the world.

Chris

I think it's unfortunate that music would only be available as MP3s. It is my understanding that the quality of an MP3 recording varies widely depending on the way it was digitally compressed. True, this signal does not fade over time, but GIGO. Maybe audiophiles are a shrinking minority and the decrease in demand will price turntables out of the hand of most consumers (alas). However, I don't see that happening just yet...many current bands are still releasing material on vinyl. (specifically: shellac) TGL

My disagreement with the article is as follows. Most people interested in the indie scene are interested in the indie scene including sich things as high-fidelity, lo-fidelity, vinyl, and other such esoteric aspects of recorded music. MP3's and the internet will never stop a fan of an indie band from picking up every CD, 7" and bootleg tape they can find. This will of course mean they will want to use Napster to find live and rare recordings, but never as an excuse for legitimate releases.

In case you are looking for an article to read from an insider in the industry, Steve Albini of such fantastic indie bands as Shellac and Big Black has written an article that sums up what a newly signed bands has done to their collective anus by a major label. And he should know, having produced (his real job is a professional recording engineer) bands like Nirvana, Page/Plant, the Breeders, the Pixies, and (ugh)Bush. Take a look.

Chris

My disagreement with the article is as follows. Most people interested in the indie scene are interested in the indie scene including sich things as high-fidelity, lo-fidelity, vinyl, and other such esoteric aspects of recorded music. MP3's and the internet will never stop a fan of an indie band from picking up every CD, 7" and bootleg tape they can find. This will of course mean they will want to use Napster to find live and rare recordings, but never as an excuse for legitimate releases.

In case you are looking for an article to read from an insider in the industry, Steve Albini of such fantastic indie bands as Shellac and Big Black has written an article that sums up what a newly signed bands has done to their collective anus by a major label. And he should know, having produced (his real job is a professional recording engineer) bands like Nirvana, Page/Plant, the Breeders, the Pixies, and (ugh)Bush. Take a look.

Chris

My disagreement with the article is as follows. Most people interested in the indie scene are interested in the indie scene including sich things as high-fidelity, lo-fidelity, vinyl, and other such esoteric aspects of recorded music. MP3's and the internet will never stop a fan of an indie band from picking up every CD, 7" and bootleg tape they can find. This will of course mean they will want to use Napster to find live and rare recordings, but never as an excuse for legitimate releases.

In case you are looking for an article to read from an insider in the industry, Steve Albini of such fantastic indie bands as Shellac and Big Black has written an article that sums up what a newly signed bands has done to their collective anus by a major label. And he should know, having produced (his real job is a professional recording engineer) bands like Nirvana, Page/Plant, the Breeders, the Pixies, and (ugh)Bush. Take a look.

Chris

1) With the rise of MP3 sharing programs like Napster and Gnutella, labels and bands are worried about losing control of their music. Metallica and Dr Dre are the two most prominent critics. Others, like Limp Bizkit and Chuck D are very much in favor of Napster and its ilk. I was wondering how the members of Fugazi felt about the rise of MP3 music. Do you support the trading of songs? Any reservations about it?

1.re: napster, MP3's etc. ---we don't have any real strong feelings about it mainly because we are kind of low tech - as far as i'm concerned, i'm glad people have access to the music. to me its like radio freed from the dictatorship of the programmers - as far as trading files, to us its just like trading tapes - as long as people aren't trying to profit off it its totally cool with us.

Having read numerous articles on the subject, I see repeated that many bands and labels claim that CDs cost $16 because running a record label is very expensive. I believe Lars Ulrich of Metallica stated, "For every one successful band, you have nine that flop and cost the record company a lot of money." Yet bands like Fugazi and the Dischord label can sell CDs for less than $10, and are apparently very successful. What makes Dischord able to sell a Fugazi CD so inexpensively, when I have to shell out $16 for the latest pop album? Are the labels lying to conceal a huge profit-making machine, or are the dynamics different between a small indie label and a larger corporate one.

majors are into profit maximization - that is not our primary concern. we want to make our music accessible to as many people as possible, thus the low price. making a CD costs about $2 so you can do the math to figure out the degree to which the majors are gouging people to pay off all their bloated CEOs, promotion budgets, and inflated production costs.

1) With the rise of MP3 sharing programs like Napster and Gnutella, labels and bands are worried about losing control of their music. Metallica and Dr Dre are the two most prominent critics. Others, like Limp Bizkit and Chuck D are very much in favor of Napster and its ilk. I was wondering how the members of Fugazi felt about the rise of MP3 music. Do you support the trading of songs? Any reservations about it?

1.re: napster, MP3's etc. ---we don't have any real strong feelings about it mainly because we are kind of low tech - as far as i'm concerned, i'm glad people have access to the music. to me its like radio freed from the dictatorship of the programmers - as far as trading files, to us its just like trading tapes - as long as people aren't trying to profit off it its totally cool with us.

Having read numerous articles on the subject, I see repeated that many bands and labels claim that CDs cost $16 because running a record label is very expensive. I believe Lars Ulrich of Metallica stated, "For every one successful band, you have nine that flop and cost the record company a lot of money." Yet bands like Fugazi and the Dischord label can sell CDs for less than $10, and are apparently very successful. What makes Dischord able to sell a Fugazi CD so inexpensively, when I have to shell out $16 for the latest pop album? Are the labels lying to conceal a huge profit-making machine, or are the dynamics different between a small indie label and a larger corporate one.

majors are into profit maximization - that is not our primary concern. we want to make our music accessible to as many people as possible, thus the low price. making a CD costs about $2 so you can do the math to figure out the degree to which the majors are gouging people to pay off all their bloated CEOs, promotion budgets, and inflated production costs.

It seems that when it comes right down to it, both of these artists are more interested in the money than anything else. Of course, this comes as no suprise; anyone who thought that either Metallica or Dr Dre were anything but corporate sycophants would do well to listen to some albums by Crass.

And while I always thought that Limp Bizkit was clearly a producer's invention to make some quick cash off the popularity of Korn, I've been impressed by their support of Napster and MP3s, which includes having the beleagured Napster sponsor a free tour. I guess even in the heart of corporate rock, you can still find a little soul.

I was in a band. Our bass player started a record label and zine. We sold our cd's for $8 a piece. We did undercut the big names. Dischord undercuts the big names all the time, and has been for about 10 years. The major labels make ridiculous amounts of money, but they also waste it on Backstreet Boys lifesize cardboard stands and Britney Spears breast implants etc. It doesn't LOOK like they have a huge profit margin because they put it against the costs of every stupid penny they waste on advertising and lawyers that sue Napster and mp3.com.

As for soda; it's the restaurants (and movie theaters) that have the gigantic profit margin there.

Two words: Dischord Records.

Am I the only geek who didn't sleep through the Eighties? You are all going to wake up one day and know which side you've been sleeping on.

Vinyl is still an affordable medium for independent bands to put out music on. If you take a look at any of the larger independent labels in existence (like Dischord, Alternative Tentacles, Victory or Matador) you can see that they still produce a tremendous number of vinyl records.

This is done for a few reasons:

It's a less substantial investment than CDs (if the band just doesn't sell, it's less money lost by the label than if they gone ahead and released a full-length CD with them).

Consumers are more willing to spend $3 on a seven inch record of a band they've never heard of than $12 for a full-length CD.

A seven inch with four songs by a band just starting out will most likely have four of their better songs, whereas they might have to struggle to produce an entire CD of music, and write a lot of crappy songs.

and of course:

Damn it, they just sound better.

Several folks have posted about MP3s being important or justified because they provide an alternative to the ridiculous mark-ups that record companies add to CDs.

Others have responded, citing high production costs encountered by DIY bands as evidence that CDs are actually expensive to produce.

Well here's a real-world example of a small label pressing and selling CDs at well below the prices that major labels are charging, and they've been doing it for more than ten years. (Note also that their price of US$10 for a CD includes shipping and handling!)


Why do the major labels, pressing discs at thousands of times the volume of a small label like Dischord, charge so much more?

The DMCA wouldn't have anything to do with their desire to preserve these huge margins, would it?

Several folks have posted about MP3s being important or justified because they provide an alternative to the ridiculous mark-ups that record companies add to CDs.

Others have responded, citing high production costs encountered by DIY bands as evidence that CDs are actually expensive to produce.

Well here's a real-world example of a small label pressing and selling CDs at well below the prices that major labels are charging, and they've been doing it for more than ten years. (Note also that their price of US$10 for a CD includes shipping and handling!)


Why do the major labels, pressing discs at thousands of times the volume of a small label like Dischord, charge so much more?

The DMCA wouldn't have anything to do with their desire to preserve these huge margins, would it?

More than that, there are labels that manage to put out multiple albums every year, pay the artists higher royalties, and still make a buck. Touch & Go's royalty rate is around 50%; I believe that of DeSoto and Dischord sits at around 40%. The entire feast-famine business model of the major labels is essentially flawed; a band on an independent label--or making professional-quality music themselves, a la the Poster Children--and touring frequently (but without putting out a video or sinking hundreds of thousands of dollars into studio time) can make a living where most bands playing the majors' game can't. It's that simple. Steve Albini broke down the numbers in an essay for The Baffler, and for all his personality issues, I'm inclined to trust his numbers.
--

Not only did Tom Waits recently say that he'd commit to Epitaph (I believe the recent quote was that they are "a bunch of dedicated guys who actually care about the music that they're producing"), but Epitaph has been stretching its fingers past the "punk" scene: into blues and folk. So this doesn't just mean that punk will become readily accessable, but so will other genres.

MP3s for sale, well, I support, but I don't think they're the hottest idea. I've always been a big fan of music in general, and therefore a big "try before you buy" advocate. Sell the songs for 99 cents and you might have some buyers, but drop the bitrate or dub them to mono and put 'em out for free and you'll get a following. How many times have we heard Hip Song X on the radio, said, "Oh, I'll buy that album," then found out the album sucks, or the band is overproduced and can't play three chords live, or some other horrible situation? The way I see it is that MP3s are a nice way to reintroduce musicianship and integrity to the industry, things which have long gone unrecognized. They allow independant artists who are talented to get recognized and popular artists to have a chance to truly prove their worth. It's been said millions of times: set the water level and society will swim to meet it. Now we can hear Hip Song X on the radio and then go and find the rest of the album somewhere to determine whether or not its worth our $13.99 or greater. If it isn't, oh well. That band will have their moment and then fade away, perhaps faster than usual. However, if it truly is a great record that deserves notice, it will be noticed and bought and exhalted, despite what the big six and other critics think.

I'm just ranting, really, at this point, and we all know the virtues of MP3s. Epitaph is taking a step in the right direction. Now if Matador and Merge (Superchunk's label, with Neutral Milk Hotel, Rocket From The Crypt, Portastatic, Magenetic Fields, Ladybug Transistor, and Third Eye Foundation, amongst others) and Touch & Go (Jesus Lizard, Blonde Redhead) and SubPop (a whole buncha bands, even though the label tends to get sneered at) and, hell, Grand Royal (Beastie Boys' label, now with Lucious Jackson, Ben Lee, Butter 08, and some other fairly hip groups) would open up and do the same thing, we'd really be cooking with gas. Show the RIAA just what they're up against.