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I'm not sure that with Web 2.0 another alternative, the return of the amateur, isn't the direction we are heading in instead.

It shocks me that people think that this is a good direction to be heading, too. It'd be a good way to kill the video game industry: you aren't going to make a Fallout or a Half-Life 2 or a on an "amateur" budget of zero; you just don't have the technology and manpower. Hell, the best indie RPG series I can think of (Avernum and/or Exile, by Spiderweb Software) is still pretty piddling in comparison to Baldur's Gate 2 or whatever, and I'm saying that as somebody who genuinely likes those indie games.

The Windows release of Geneforge 5 is probably worth mentioning.

You hit the nail on the head, but you must understand than the people who make the decisions for a developer of ANY size are NOT interested in "making a living". They was to make as much money as possible, and thus have absolutely no interest in catering to the original fans.

One-two man shops can afford to make niche games for their rabid fans. I'm a big fan of Dominions (Illwinter - two guys), Geneforge (Spiderweb - one guy), Mount and Blade (man and wife) I love their games, buy every new release, and get exactly what I expect. But these guys are not getting rich, nor really trying to. Their graphics are at least five years behind the curve, their engines are worse than what I could built in an year, and their games are not selling enough to support more than a few people.

A company that can produce a AAA title needs dozens of millions. They cannot afford to go for anything but the lowest common denominator. And most of such games fail. Serves them right. The one-two men shops release games faithful to the franchise, and are assured a welcoming audiance... of a few thousands at best. I have no idea how new people get hooked up.

Actually here is how you should get hooked up: (I'm linking to demos)

Dominions A insanely complex, turn based, fantasy strategy. Crappy graphics, retarded AI. Awesome multiplayer, if you are willing to play a game that can take a few months to resolve itself, and if your self-esteem take accept that each game produces one winner out of up to sixty players. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/DOM3/DOM3_page.html

Geneforge/Exile/Avernum Old style RPGs with an extremely involved story, very detailed multiple endings - the kind you can replay a dozen times if you can imagine a dozen characters with different morals. http://www.spidweb.com/geneforge3/index.html

Mount and Blade First person slasher. The one and only mounted combat simulator that reaches for the right feel. As someone who has used a saber from a horse, and trying to shoot a bow, I can tell you it does an incredible job. It is ngreat at modeling hand to hand combat and archery on foot as well, but that's been done. http://www.taleworlds.com/mb_download.html

Oh, so all piracy is of stuff by big media corporations? Really? How about small game developers whose games are regularly pirated? I guess they suck too, 'cause they aren't giving it to you for free.

Piracy isn't a "mass advertising campaign." A few pirating gamers might say something about a game to a friend or two. But the idea that that's more beneficial than getting paid for their fucking work is astonishingly retarded. (Especially given that said pirating gamer would probably just say to his friend "here, I'll burn you a copy.")

Rationalize it all you want: you're still fucking people over.

It has been proven over and over again that shareware doesn't work. People do not pay when there is an alternative to paying.

Uh, Jeff has done you one better. He makes his own CRPGs. He's hardly a "whiner" any more than those who write about game design in Gamasutra are.

Roguelikes in general are really quite amazing. I prefer Angband, but we've all got our tastes.

For an absolutely amazing game series, try Geneforge. Low on graphics, but includes almost non-linear gameplay in an incredible RPG. Best of all (I think) they give you a HUGE demo to play around in - the first quarter of the game or so, maybe a bit less. And, there's 13+ endings in each of the games, so you keep coming back for more. Completly awesome games.

I personally like the games from Spiderweb Software and Ill Winter Games. Pretty much everything each of these companies makes is available for Mac OS X. Most of the games Ill Winter makes are also available for Linux and Solaris if you so desire...

While I generally agree, I'm not too happy that Spiderweb Software has yet to port their best game (IMHO) from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X -- Nethergate.

I personally like the games from Spiderweb Software and Ill Winter Games. Pretty much everything each of these companies makes is available for Mac OS X. Most of the games Ill Winter makes are also available for Linux and Solaris if you so desire...

While I generally agree, I'm not too happy that Spiderweb Software has yet to port their best game (IMHO) from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X -- Nethergate.

I personally like the games from Spiderweb Software and Ill Winter Games. Pretty much everything each of these companies makes is available for Mac OS X. Most of the games Ill Winter makes are also available for Linux and Solaris if you so desire...

FPS games get boring after awhile, but these games stay playable longer.

IMO, an "indie" game would have to be self-published. In other words, you couldn't buy it in box form at your local game store; you'd need to get it directly from the developer. A small (or one-person) team is also typical of such games. I have to plug my favorite shareware developer, Spiderweb Software. Jeff Vogel writes some awesome old-style RPGs. Try out Avernum 3 and Geneforge 2 if you like open ended RPGs and don't mind simple (but by no means ugly) graphics. I have no affiliation with Spiderweb other than spending about $100 on their games over the years.

With regards to MUDs, I can heartily recommend LambdaMOO. It has a very simple object-oriented programming language, and unlike many MUDs, it's all interpreted, so you can program new stuff live with the server running. The server also automatically parses player commands with English-like syntax (direct objects, prepositions, and indirect objects) and passes them to the verbs (functions).

The downside compared to MUDs is that LambdaMOO is designed primarily as an educational/social environment, so any RPG functionality will have to be coded from scratch, although there are some ready-made RPG systems available on the web.

Something else to consider is shareware RPGs that allow user-designed scenarios. Blades of Exile, written by Jeff Vogel and available for Mac and Windows is a classic 2D tile-based RPG with a very simple graphical editor that allows you to create new scenarios. The author is also working on a sequel, which will use a newer isometric engine and feature a C-like scripting language for greater flexibility. Ambrosia Software publishes Escape Velocity, a 2D space trading game with a modular plug-in system that allows users to expand or modify the game universe or build a total conversion from scratch. These games were originally written for the Mac, where plug-ins are made very easily using ResEdit; the third game has recently been ported to Windows, and I'm not sure how plug-ins are made on the PC.

At any rate, this all depends on whether the kid in question is more interested in the technical challenge of programming a game and getting it to work, or in the design of challenging battles, puzzles, or whatever. I imagine someone who wanted to experiment with different level designs, enemies, weapons, and how they balance would get discouraged pretty quickly if they had to first spend days writing and debugging the basic engine behind it, and vice versa.

With regards to MUDs, I can heartily recommend LambdaMOO. It has a very simple object-oriented programming language, and unlike many MUDs, it's all interpreted, so you can program new stuff live with the server running. The server also automatically parses player commands with English-like syntax (direct objects, prepositions, and indirect objects) and passes them to the verbs (functions).

The downside compared to MUDs is that LambdaMOO is designed primarily as an educational/social environment, so any RPG functionality will have to be coded from scratch, although there are some ready-made RPG systems available on the web.

Something else to consider is shareware RPGs that allow user-designed scenarios. Blades of Exile, written by Jeff Vogel and available for Mac and Windows is a classic 2D tile-based RPG with a very simple graphical editor that allows you to create new scenarios. The author is also working on a sequel, which will use a newer isometric engine and feature a C-like scripting language for greater flexibility. Ambrosia Software publishes Escape Velocity, a 2D space trading game with a modular plug-in system that allows users to expand or modify the game universe or build a total conversion from scratch. These games were originally written for the Mac, where plug-ins are made very easily using ResEdit; the third game has recently been ported to Windows, and I'm not sure how plug-ins are made on the PC.

At any rate, this all depends on whether the kid in question is more interested in the technical challenge of programming a game and getting it to work, or in the design of challenging battles, puzzles, or whatever. I imagine someone who wanted to experiment with different level designs, enemies, weapons, and how they balance would get discouraged pretty quickly if they had to first spend days writing and debugging the basic engine behind it, and vice versa.

With regards to MUDs, I can heartily recommend LambdaMOO. It has a very simple object-oriented programming language, and unlike many MUDs, it's all interpreted, so you can program new stuff live with the server running. The server also automatically parses player commands with English-like syntax (direct objects, prepositions, and indirect objects) and passes them to the verbs (functions).

The downside compared to MUDs is that LambdaMOO is designed primarily as an educational/social environment, so any RPG functionality will have to be coded from scratch, although there are some ready-made RPG systems available on the web.

Something else to consider is shareware RPGs that allow user-designed scenarios. Blades of Exile, written by Jeff Vogel and available for Mac and Windows is a classic 2D tile-based RPG with a very simple graphical editor that allows you to create new scenarios. The author is also working on a sequel, which will use a newer isometric engine and feature a C-like scripting language for greater flexibility. Ambrosia Software publishes Escape Velocity, a 2D space trading game with a modular plug-in system that allows users to expand or modify the game universe or build a total conversion from scratch. These games were originally written for the Mac, where plug-ins are made very easily using ResEdit; the third game has recently been ported to Windows, and I'm not sure how plug-ins are made on the PC.

At any rate, this all depends on whether the kid in question is more interested in the technical challenge of programming a game and getting it to work, or in the design of challenging battles, puzzles, or whatever. I imagine someone who wanted to experiment with different level designs, enemies, weapons, and how they balance would get discouraged pretty quickly if they had to first spend days writing and debugging the basic engine behind it, and vice versa.

I'm sure that this doesn't appeal to most folks -- there are far fewer graphics and sound effects than mainstrain commercial, but the Mac has enjoyed some of the best independently-produced open-ended RPGs in existence, thanks to the prolific efforts of Jeff Vogel at Spiderweb Software. He writes all the game text himself, in addition to doing the coding and game design. I doubt this post will convert many folks that haven't already played Spiderweb games, but particularly among Mac gamers, Vogel games (the Exile, Avernum, Nethergate, and Geneforge series) enjoy a pretty large list of fans.

There's a quite distinctive dry humor in his writing, and at least one of his games, Exile 3, has been ported to Linux. I was never too impressed with the porting company's work, but kudos to Jeff for going for the port anyway.

It's too late to be modded up for this, but take a look at Spiderweb Software. They make some of the greatest RPGs out there, and the still use 2d graphics in a 3d isometric tile-based world. Incredibly fun. They just came out with Avernum 3, along with Geneforge 2. Excellent RPGS, some of the best I've ever played. It goes to show that you don't need great graphics to have a fun (and long and involving) game. Of course, these games are only on PC and Mac.

A small company called Spiderweb Software released a game for Linux called Exile III - it is similar to the classic Ultima IV or Ultima V style. It is shareware, so you can try before you buy (even for Linux). I am kind of disapointed they only released one game for Linux as they released so many for both the Mac and the PC - including scenerio design tools - and this was way before Neverwinter Nights. Sure the graphics are not overwhelming but worth a look. Here is a link to the game.

I personally bought and played Exile I-III on the PC around 1998 and was very satisfied. Currently, there is NWN and Everquest and many others to choose from, but I felt it was the best comptuer RPG at that time.

But the reason I bring this up is that apparently it did not sell well under Linux - perhaps it was piracy, perhaps just not enough of a user base (note: I did not play under Linux maybe it is ultra buggy or something) but for whatever reason an ideal candidate for producing Linux games was turned off.

Doom 2 was a retail release, not shareware--and it sold something like 10x as many copies as there were registrations for Doom 1.

Quake was released as retail as well, although it was a little more complicated than that.

For recent examples of successful shareware games, I'd look more at things like Bejeweled and such from PopCap, or the Exile/Avernum games from Spiderweb Software.

Of course, there's still plenty of unsuccessful shareware these days; I've written some myself, but I'll spare you the link.

You lads also have Ambrosia Software, Spiderweb Software (which now usually does Windows versions as well). I have wonderful memories of both those companies from Mac OS Classic days.

Plus, a lot of the ports are better than the Windows original. Few reach the level of the Warcraft II port (where the Mac version had 3d sound and TCP/IP networking added by the porting company), but frequently people buying the Mac version get expansions for free and get all the bugfixes that Windows gamers have to find themselves and wait for the company to fix.

The Mac can run Fallout, Close Combat, and the Angband clones. That's enough to keep me happy on just about any system. I wish Linux could do that (to my great disappointment, WINE does not yet handle Close Combat, but with any luck, it will soon -- I've noticed that both the winex and wine trees have in the last few months had clipping code added to DirectX...)

You, my good sir, are entirely correct.

After all, they missed two of the best games of all time: ZZT and Exile. ZZT was especially cool, because it had an overhead view, ran in text mode, and was easy to make good worlds for :)

The guy at spiderweb games, a shareware company that is apparantly releasing their Exile series on linux, created the fairly successful "Blades of Exile" game that allowed the community to build its own adventures. I'm not sure if it was as successful as he had hoped, however, because I think his later games are unmodifiable,.

There are certainly dozens of professional games that have similar communities--there are hundreds of scenarios available out there for Age of Empires/AOK, and there must be thousands available for Quake/doom/etc.

In fact, there are many games out there that become much greater because they have a community developing the games. The success of these games might have more to do with the people writing their own scenarios and modifications than in the original technical or marketing activity of the original designers. I would think that in many of these cases, the wide-spread availability of novel free scenarios has increased the profits of these companies, rather than diminished them.