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Why Port To PC? Shareware Still alive!
An anonymous reader writes "Here is an interesting interview with Tom Anthony, describing why Ambrosia Software are porting their Mac games to the PC market. Do you think their games can really sell after being ported? I thought shareware was dead, but all their games are still using shareware as well."
We used to call it Share THEIR Ware! :)
I don't get it... all their games are using shareware as well? What does that mean? Sorry. I'm tired.
I know after years of not having any money, and using shareware for free, I LOVE that I can afford to pay people who make shareware, and support independent software.
Recent shareware fees paid:
- 10 licenses of the Opera web browser
- A ton of Chank's fonts
- Limewire
- UltraEdit
Plus PayPal tip-jars to the great Quanta, MusicBrainz, and even websites like Ryze.Whenever I need a program/tool, the first places I look are TinyApps (very small software for Windows), and Tucows.
I sure HOPE it's not just me that's out there doing what I can to support the independent shareware programmers!
If the game is interesting and worth playing, then why not port it? So you open your product to an audience that you wouldn't have had otherwise.
I've never heard of this series of games, but I guess that if it was a hit on the Mac it'd probably have some success on the x86 platform.
Is shareware really dead? I don't think so. I still buy the occasional game after downloading a demo version. It's not called shareware anymore but it feels the same to me.
If I like it, I buy it.
Huh?
I've played a lot of shareware games on the Mac, and a lot of them are good. To my understanding shareware on the PC side always had a bad connotation, like it was worthless. It will take a really good game to overcome this stigma. However, I've played almost all of Ambrosia's games and they are the best shareware has to offer. While the graphics aren't always the best, they definately succeed in the fun department. If anyone can make it porting shareware from the Mac to PC, it's Ambrosia.
I'm skeptical as to how well this will work. The mac community is different, chiefly in that there is some sense of community. A certain desire to support companies that develop for the platform.
...wow, that metaphor came out badly.
I know there are a decent number of people who actually bought ambrosia games despite already having the pirated codes to use them.
The Wintel world is a much bigger place, so you're fishing from a bigger pond, but I don't think the fish will be so generous about going after the bait on the hook when there're plenty of other ways to get a worm without having a big barbed spike driven thru your cheek in the form of money.
"The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
towards companies like this afloat. ;))
In the Unix/Linux world, we're used to quality freeware (gcc,kde,gimp) and we look first for a product that is free, and are reluctent to look into shareware. (generally speaking; I know that all you reading this have ordered from and sponsor shareware developers
In the mac and windows worlds, however, there's still a large, thriving market to be had from shareware.
So, in the end, no; this news doesn't surprise me.
don't port ever again people! write to a common application layer like .NET/mono. mono runs on the mac/bsd today! all your .NET games should run across linux/gtk#, OSX and microsoft operating systems (not including Windows 95 or earlier - and 98 and ME implementations are a bit buggy frankly - but otherwise you're OK to roll). microsoft is my friend ;^)
Before adopting WHATWG, read the moonlight.NET EULA [http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/moonlight.mspx]
Even though there isn't as much familiarity with the company in the PC market, they can have a much smaller market penetration and still do as well or better. Remember that the Mac market is still only about 1/10th the size of the WinTel market.
I'd say they'll do even better than the usual shareware company since they'll have a lot of word-of-mouth already going for them.
*Checks calendar* - nope, not April 1st.
*Reads thread a third time* - nope, doesn't make sense.
*Runs it through several freetranslation.com translations with various languages* - nope no sense still.
*Reaches the conclusion this thread just doesn't make sense!*
What the Bush does shareware have to do with this?
The Redhat 7.3 Linux "servers" at my job each have a copy of Maelstrom on them. Sweeeeet!!!
I miss Chiral.
Is that the stuff I download off KaZaA? =p
More important than wether its shareware or not, I've been waiting years for ambrosia to port some of their games over, these are some of the funnest games I've played.
I remember one of Ambrosia SW's selling points used to be that they made shareware for the Mac only. This, believe it or not, was one of the ways they poured on loyalty from the Mac community. I think it's great that they're still in business and branching out.
If you've never played one of the three Escape Velocities, you're in for a treat.
BTW, isn't there an Escape Velocity linux clone, or is that of Maelstrom I'm think of?
In my experience, Mac shareware is on average much much better than Windows shareware. Especially shareware games. I've played a few games that were ported from the Mac to Windows, and rarely are they as good as the Mac version, possibly (probably) due to a poor job of porting.
So I figure, if you're going to port to another platform, do it right.
These days I refuse to support shareware unless there is no alternate free software solution. Why? Because I value source code as much as I value the freedom to share.
How we know is more important than what we know.
How many Mac (pre-OS X) users out there don't remember playing great games like Maelstrom and Apeiron back in the day? Escape Velocity, too, was an awesome game, but I loved Ambrosia best for their classic games. Ambrosia made, in my opinion, the greatest shareware games for the Mac by far. Anyone who hasn't heard of them has missed out. Those were the days... =)
Proper try before you buy shareware is fairly dead. Authors only seem to release crippleware these days, incorrectly calling it shareware, figuring that they won't make any money if they release full software. I don't know generally how successful this approach is, but after Slashdot my second favourite site is that one that sounds a bit like AltaVista... And I *do* buy stuff after cracking it, and trying it out properly, although this often takes longer than the ridiculously short "trial period" most crippleware authors seem to think is sufficient. Stuff that expires on a particular date, set after intallation, has often expired before I get to try it. What I don't buy is stuff I can't crack, cos I can't fully try it out.
PSP - you used to be cool, man. Being proper shareware is what got you where you are today, and now you spit in your fans' eyes.
Anyone know of a shareware site that lists crippleware as such, and not calling "X Lite" (where Lite means crippled) proper shareware when it's only a thinly veiled marketing release?
The only reason I have ever made my PC emulate a Mac.
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
I've been pissed off ever since ambrosia started doing this. They used to be one of the bragging rights I've had over my windows user friends. Just another example of a great mac only company selling out to the spawn.
I can't really blame them though, it must be bloody hard to make any real money developing only for the mac.
As far as the shareware issue goes at least since EV Nova they have been much more successful in protecting their software from piracy.
As a mac user the only benefit I see from this is that 1. they may have a chance to stay in business and 2. more people will be out there making plug-ins for the EV series.
<html><body></body></html>
:)
wo w, you really got what you paid for
eh... going offtopic here sorry (well games are ontopic aren't they?)
ever wondered what Miguel de Icaza's favourite Java game proboably is? check it out - the physics model in this motorbike game is just superb
Before adopting WHATWG, read the moonlight.NET EULA [http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/moonlight.mspx]
I remember, nearly twenty years ago, when I had my lovely Atari ST, shareware was software that its authors shared with the general public to enjoy. We had never heard of the GPL, but the spirit was similar.
Over the years, the meaning of the word changed. First you were asked to pay something, if you liked the program, then you would only get the docs if you payed, then nags, and finally the crippleware and timebombs we see today.
Now shareware seems to mean that there is a downloadable evaluation version which can be activated online. This is a pure marketing features and says nothing about the software itself. As soon as MS can devise secure delivery over the net, Office will become shareware, too, finally reducing the notion ad absurdum.
If you've ever used a program that makes you wish Visual Basic was never invented, you know what I mean. i.e. Fruity interface graphics, tiled image form backgrounds, runtime errors...etc.. etc..
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
He lives a few blocks from me... I had no idea his fonts were so widely used... his other art is pretty good too...
How sure are they that this will work? The mac software market is very different from the PC software market.
While on Windows, the word most commonly associated with 'shareware' is 'crap', this is not the case on the mac. Due to the smaller marketshare, selling boxed copies of software on store shelves isn't a winning plan for anything but the largest players in the mac software biz. Because of this, a great deal of excellent software is released for mac.
Where on windows shareware has long since been given up as a dead end, the mac shareware market is alive and well, producing and supporting a large number of excellent programs. As a mac user, many of your staple programs would be shareware, not boxed commerical (this is one thing that really strikes a lot of 'switchers' as strange).
Just because they can make a good profit selling shareware on the mac doesn't mean it'll extend to windows. They'll probably do better actually selling boxes (bargin stuff, like what you'd find in the checkout line, not alongside the $50 large production games) rather than selling shareware in the windows market, simply because to windows users, a physical box implies that it's a real piece of software produced by a real company (a thought not common among mac users).
Shareware as a model has the advantage of being able to use viral marketing. If there is a program I really enjoy, I can tell my friends about it and give them a copy. They can do the same if they like it, ad infinitum. This, like many other free formats, cuts the cost of advertising tremendously, very important for a small developer. And depending on the market one can also make a bit of money off of the work, which seems to be harder to do with other formats. The best shareware often is a full version, but then offers additional incentives or bonuses to register.
I think that shareware, at least on the Mac platform where there are less commercial developers, has a long and distinguished history and will continue to play a part on the software scene.
This, in my opinion, is a good move for Ambrosia Software. Why? Exposure to say the least.
Escape Velocity is an incredible series. Several years ago I used to work solely on a Macintosh, I was amazed when I discovered Escape Velocity, mainly because I found it more enjoyable and interesting than a majority of games that were in the PC market at the time. Now, working only with PC's, I'll be watching this PC port very closely.
- - Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand. - -
like your mom, you dirty pinko commie.
I looked at that forum once. Most every post was someone asking a question or starting a discussion and then 10 board regulars jumping on him saying "We already talked about that a year ago!" and "Use the search feature, jackass!"
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
I have no problem with shareware publishers that are up front about what features are limited about their shareware. The thing I do have a problem with, is when software authors bundle nasty surprises with their software, and then turn around and say that it's shareware.
Case in point: Omen Technology claims that their zmodem implementation is shareware, but has an extremely restrictive license that prohibits actually using the software unless it's used with their other products. And then it attempts to email home when it's used. How exactly is this "shareware"?
Most software that I buy today is really in effect Shareware, as I first obtain the trial copy to see what it does. If it does what I need done, I then go out and purchase it.
There are two programs which I have found absolutely invaluable over the years, and paid the Shareware fees.
One is Ultraedit, as mentioned.
The other is filesync
Shareware is far from dead.
A long time asm coder, free/shareware writer John McCarthy (google "3d Vect", "OuterRidge" and "Fortified"), has just released his new game (originally it was just a screensaver demo, but now there is a playable demo) of his new game sonic speedsters. Lot of fun, I have a copy myself.
The article only mentions porting to "windows", not as /. says to "PC". OK, if it's also ported to Linux then I'll agree it is on "PC".
My first computer was a macintosh. An old Mac SE 40. For a while there, mac were all I'd use... Now, there has never been the same range of software available for the mac as there was for PC. I used to go in to the local EB and see row after row of software for wintel machines...but little, if anything for macintosh. Inconvenient...but once I got to college it really didn't bother me anymore.
In college I had a decent internet connection, and was exposed to all the wonderful shareware out there. Ambrosia is one of the best shareward companies I have ever had the joy of dealing with. They produce both useful and useless, but all of their software is very high quality. The stuff they turn out is at least as nice as anything you'll see boxed up in a store. Escape Velocity was always one of my favorite games... For a while I was looking at getting a cheap mac or some sort of emulation program just to play EV again. I am absolutely thrilled that they're finally porting it to the PC. I can't wait to buy mine.
There are tons of very high quality shareware companies out there that turn out very nice products. I've seen a number of shareware products make the transion to retail-box products as well. There's absolutely no reason to discount a software product just because it is shareware.
yrs,
Ephemeriis
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
I've got no mom. I was actually created in Saddam's secret underwater genetics research facili... oops. Gotta go. Bye.
A "Chemical Factory"? What kind of chemicals does it produce? Toothpaste?
As a shareware author, I can definitely say that shareware's not dead, although the term "shareware" is getting old. You can read about the history of shareware at the Association of Shareware Professionals website -
History of Shareware
Shareware is really just software that is marketed as 'try before you buy'. I don't refer to shareware on my website - I just refer to a free trial.
There are many Independent Software Developers working on games, utility type programs, and small niche software.
I LOVED Escape Velocity on the Mac. I used to play it all the time...I'd love to be able to play the latest version of it on Windows or Linux. Cool.
Does anyone else remember the revolutionary way to punish those who didn't remember to pay the registration fee? The original Escape Velocity showed a pop-up at startup if you continued playing after the first thirty days (I installed it on a system whose system clock I had forgot to set, so I think my normal tally was about 1,564 days of use). However, it didn't block you out from any parts of the game or impose a time limit. Instead, there was a unique NPC in a heavy fighter who in normal gameplay would always hail you with a "Don't forget to register" message. However, after the thirty day trial, the character, known as "Cap'n Hector" after a pet parrot in the ambrosia offices, would exact revenge on those who would steal the bird seed from her mouth. With cries of "Avast, ye scurvy software pirate," this nearly-invincible assassin would swoop down on your ship and assail you with a barrage of torpedoes and rockets. Although at later stages of the game, this was a minor annoyance, in the starting shuttle one rocket blast was instant death. It was definitely the most amusing way to prevent full illegal use that I've ever seen. (Although, to be honest, I finally defeated him with the use of a resource editor. Hector wasn't quite as threatening when she was buzzing around you in a weaponless shuttle :))
I am the author of a very successful (both from the download count and from the income generated point of view) shareware application.
Every time the current version of the software has been cracked, the number of people buying the software has decreased dramatically.
I am convinced that without a nag dialog and limited trial period, very few people would pay.
Evil diggeth a pit and falleth therein.
Ambrosia created a slew of the best shareware games ever seen for Mac, starting in 1992. They proved that shareware could actually be profitable. The quality of these games puts some commercial games to shame - it's on par with Nintendo's bug-free quality. The one that made them famous, Maelstrom, was ported to Linux. Ambrosia's games have historically been highly, highly addictive, especially Escape Velocity and it's sequels. I have to wonder, though, how well received they will be in the PC market which has an order of magnitude more games than the Mac.
Who moved my sig?
Shareware was never what you think it was.
One such game. This game is great, download the demo!@
...which may eternal lie.. or something like that. I don't have the excat qoute from Lovecraft, but I'm sure someone here may deliver it.
Turning to the subject however, I would say that it is pretty clear that shareware isn't dead, allthought it can be considered to be in a less than perfect state of health. These days, we get programs that are crippled (my least favorite one was a image-editor which shall remain nameless; everything worked... apart from the ability to save your work), timebombs (are you listening Cerious Software? I loved your earlier version of ThumbPlus; but when I upgraded, you demanded I reregitered, deleted my old files and then simply refused to work)... spyware and other crap.
I used to register quite a few programs; both games and utilities. The last couple of years thought... all I've registerd was my copy of Opera - mostly because it's a great little browser, partly because I'm moraly obliged to support a norwegian softwarecompany.
Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
There are 1 types of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't...... (Nobody would use 2 bits to describe something that can use only one bit)
I thought that interview totally sucked.
A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
I so wanted to play Escape Velocity again, but since my littel PowerMac is sitting on the shelf and collecting dust, I haven't. It's the only Ambrosia game I know, but it rocks. If anyone remembers the old pc game solar winds, that's a little like it, only EV is better. It doesn't have hyper modern graphics or anything, but the game play is a lot of fun!
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
For what it's worth, I've got to agree with everyone else and say this is a good thing. EV was one of the best games for the Mac, and was an envy of many PC owning friends.
Just to point out that they are releasing EV:Nova, their most recent installment, although I'd be damn happy if they got round to backporting their older EVs as well.
When I used a Mac, I was quite impressed by the quality of the shareware out there. The ratio of good software to crap -- and some of it is *very* good, without even a commercial equivalent, like USB Overdrive -- is much higher on the Mac than Windows. I think some of it may be Visual Basic. It's really easy for a non-programmer to sit down and roll out a complete piece of junk, and have delusions of actually making money on it.
I've found that, when it comes to both shareware and interesting binary hacks, the Mac has a much healthier community than Windows.
On the other hand, the Linux open-source community is even better...
May we never see th
I'm actually going the other way around right now with my game Aargon, porting it from PC to Mac and PDA platforms. I guess I'll see later this year whether it was worth it and how those platforms differ. It's definitely a smaller audience on the Mac, but then there's less competition. The thing with the shareware game market in particular, and why it's definitely not dead, is that it's serving a type of player that isn't being catered very well to by the major retail companies. A lot of the more successful shareware game companies focus on puzzle oriented, easy to access, casual games that appeal to a different audience than the counter strike crowd. No matter how slick doom 3 is my Mom won't play it but she might buy a mahjongg game or a nicer version solitaire. There are of course a few nice shareware hardcore game titles like space tripper, or ultra assault that are probably selling well, but casual games are definitely leading that market right now. If you look at what something a game portal like realarcade sells, it's all click and match colors, or mahjongg or word games etc... Successful shareware games are filling niches that the major retail companies avoid. One example of a good company along those lines is popcap software, who are known for their pda hit bejewled.
Does anyone remember Avara? Wierd ass control structure, but I think a pioneer in a direction of multiplayer gaming that never was fully realized (not sure what that direction would be, but nothing has ever had the same "feeling" as Avara)
I still remember the "I'm playing the next Tron" like feeling while wandering through the fortress and hearing a low frequency humming noise in the background of the level. BEST low frequency humming noise i've ever heard if u ask me...
Damn Iraqis trying to feed their children!
Shareware died when they put it on CD. Ambrosia is a lone island of very good developers who produce some of the best stuff around. They use simple and addictive game play and great graphics. IMO any single person doing shareware is hopeing to develop the skills to get a software contract, shareware will send 'em crazy. Get help, now!
regards from an ex-shareware writer(?) my MacUser Nomination was not enough to have people pay for games etc.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
"Note: I will not and never will encourage piracy from any company..."
Then, just a little further down the page
"5. New! Now you can download a ROM Image file right from this tutorial!"
That ROM is Apple IP; you're ripping them off. Go buy a Mac if you want the ROM.
No, I'm not a Mac user (Blah) but don't be a hypocrite.
Zmodem from OT comes with the source. Look at it. Then send in the $20. Dingo.
In fact, this is one of the very worst examples I have ever seen! Even worse is that the idiot spams forums like OSNews with ads for his crap.
Oh, and if I ever see another VB Image Viewer that the author thinks warrents a $35 price then I swear I'll go postal. I'll do it, I really will.
I both buy shareware (Pontifex, Snood, silly games like that) and sell shareware (http://www.jbrowse.com/products/axe) and I'd say the system is still working just as well as it was in the Epic/Apogee era -- better, even, because credit card payments are quite easy to process now and shareware is well suited to Web business.
What's more, the level of organization in the shareware world is increasing -- the PAD XML format (PAD files describe shareware/freeware products) makes finding shareware (for the customer) and keeping it up to date (for the seller) easier than ever.
Even big-name games are sometimes still released as shareware (without using the word per se) -- Unreal Tournament 3 springs to mind.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
I still have a shareware app on the market that brings in a couple registrations per week. Shareware was flooded in the late nineties with a whole load of crap, much of it written in VB. Probably 90% provided one tiny little feature, so you'd end up using 50 of them to provide the complete functionality of a better app. As a result, overall shareware registrations dropped dramatically -- there was a far smaller percentage of apps worth registering.
It's a testament to certain apps that they still survive well under a shareware model. Shareware certainly works, but only if you aren't charging too much and don't deliver a big ball of crap.
Anyone remember Bungee? Once a Mac-only shop...started doing windows ports. Then the Redmond Machine slurped them right up. Now the poor developers are stuck doing X-box games.
Noooo! Nooooo, Ambrosia! Don't be that guy!
That? That was a pigeon.
In fact, shareware has been co-opted by many mainstream software vendors! For example Macromedia and Adobe: You can download limited time trial software from their site and pay online to license. Sure, the days of going to the computer store and buying 3.5" floppies with shareware for $3.00 each are gone, but now most software vendors let you try before you buy.
-- $G
I don't recommend beginning a game of EV Nova unless you have a whole weekend ahead of you. It's just too easy to lose track of time upgrading/customizing your ship(s), skirmishing, making big profits on trading routes, and trying to figure out what to do next to get the story (or stories, depending on how many threads your pilot has gotten on) to the next level.
You keep thinking to yourself... I'll just finish this set of hyperjumps and dock, then I'll save and quit. Oh, wow a new ship, well, let me just try it out. Jeez, a new weapon, and I only need a few million credits more to get it. If only I could capture a derelict Leviathan to carry all those biological weapons from Codec to that other star system...
Next thing you know, it's 18 hours later, you haven't eaten or slept, and you're still just a little bit away from putting it down. Damn thing is insidious... and worth the $30 I paid for it. The only thing missing is a network/team play mode. Now that would be cool - inter-system real-time warfare. 8)
If you download it first to 'test' it.
Hey, it really does happen.. if you think ill fork out 700 bucks for an application with no opportunity to test,and no refund policy, then you are nuts. ( or even 15 bucks for music with out hearing what is on the 'b-tracks' )
And dont say 'read the reviews'.. that only goes so far..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Shareware is a great thing on the Mac platform, it's nice and profitable, and I've heard from people that write shareware for Windows. The thing that keeps me from doing so is the piracy issue. Piracy rates are extremely high on the Windows side (and to be honest, pretty high on the Mac side too but only over a few users), and I'm sure the only thing that keeps shareware profitable is the fact that most of those pirates are pimply preteens who want to play the latest release of Grand Theft Auto: Inner Qwghlm or whatever.
Then again, those kinds of idiots don't download and play shareware games either (because they're not "big name" entertainment), so who needs 'em?
Some of the first shareware programs (like PC-File) had an optional registration, not a required one (though that is most common now).
Remember that even high-volume shareware titles like Doom and Quake had an optional registration (you could play the shareware version as long as you wanted).
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
Give me Sky Castle Laputa again! ;)
;)
-uso.
Hmm, why can't I grok "Mononoke-hime" ? Could it be because I'm watching it in Japanese?
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
I was just beginning to go down the shareware route myself. Learning graphics and game programming. Guess I'll stop now.
-- (Score:i, Imaginary)
I like how Ambrosia handles the shareware fee reminders. Instead of crippling major features of the game (some are blocked until you pay, but when you're new, you're not ready to use them anyway), and they have a guy in a spaceship who will fly in, remind you to pay (before your 30 days is up), and after the 30 days is up, he'll fly in and attack you if you haven't paid yet. It's done in a non-annoying way, IMHO. In any case, I'll be happy to give them another 30 bucks for the PC version once that's available. Don't have an apple laptop yet, and it'll be nice to be able to play this in the recliner.
Ambrosia is looking at porting *one* of their games to Windows. Not all of them. Not several of them. One.
I welcome Ambrosia to port their games to Windows. But there is a large contingent of Ambrosia users who would rather they port their earlier games (Apeiron, Swoop, etc.) to OS X first.
Yes, except '1' in binary is 1 in base 10 (or any base, for that matter), so your sentence is not making sense.
Is it just me, or is this announcement from Ambrosia over two years old?
'Fcourse, the Ragnarok project mentioned on that page was pretty much abandoned after Ben Spees walked away from Ambrosia, so I guess that could have delayed the plans...
Does the name "Micro Soft" ring a bell?
Roelof
The day EV Nova comes out for the PC, I'm going to try to run it under wine!
Wheeeeeee!
- AZ
- AZ
It's shareware. I bought personal license #41662. :)
Sure, he started on the Mac. and he has Windows ports. and the games are great on both! no one in the Mac community seems to care.
His model of shareware for his RPGs is to allow you access to maybe one quarter of the game's areas until you unlock the rest. by that time, you're addicted. no nag screen!
Actually, I think they're quite rich developers now...
Plus, most Xbox devs like doing console work -- one platform with no variations saves a lot of headaches.
> Whenever I need a program/tool, the first places I look are TinyApps (very small software for Windows), and Tucows.
I suggest you also look at Pricelessware.
"The Pricelessware List reflects the programs favored by members of the newsgroup alt.comp.freeware ; it is not an exhaustive list of the best available Freeware. Most of the listings are well-known programs, but there are some hard-to-find goodies to be discovered."
Don't worry. ambrosia doesn't actually make anything themselves, so I don't see what msft would want with them. Everything they produce is made by programmers, etc. working with them on usually a single project. I believe Matt Burch is the only person to program multiple projects for ambrosia.
Also, I am sad to see that Tom Woozle has gone over to the dark side. I used to repect the man...
-D