Domain: swarthmore.edu
Stories and comments across the archive that link to swarthmore.edu.
Comments · 96
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Still major usability issues...Wireframe.
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Re:AgreedConsider a square wave. It's a discontinuous function that by Fourier's theorem can be represented as an infinite series of continuous functions -- and yet it's trivial to show that any sum of continuous functions must itself be continuous. So which is it -- continuous or discontinuous?
Discontinuous. The square wave is a good example of a function that can't be made by adding sinusoids. The Fourier series will add to a function with about 9% overshoot in infinitely thin, yet zero-energy spikes. An interactive demo of this "ringing" effect can be found here (set a to zero). More background is here.
Fourier's theorem actually states that almost any periodic function can be expressed as a sum of sinusoids.
yo.
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Re:One long advert.
reading it I got the feeling you do when somewhere just republishes a press release.
Well, being as Jay's responsible for writing at least some of Wasabi's press releases, that makes sense. :^>
As for the /. interview... it'd be sort of be mindless evangelism on my part. I use NetBSD on all of my own computers, interned with Wasabi for a summer during college, know those people I mentioned (some even personally), and take active part in the NetBSD mailing lists. I certainly don't have questions that I can't get answered on my own time. -
Where's the Twiggy support?
Supposing I want to get those direly important files off my Apple Lisa 1's Twiggy disks!
I mean, with just a little hardware hacking, I can get at the files on my ProFile hard drive, but how am I to read from the two-windowed Twiggy floppies?
;^> -
Re:Home on Lagrange
A well-known filk song in certain circles. Home on Lagrange by Bill Higgins and Barry Gehm in or around 1978.
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Re:Astroturfing
How long before this is hijacked by publishers to promote novels in a fake "grass roots" caompaign? Maybe they'd just release a teaser version missing the last 10 pages or something.
That's already been done. Check out (read, d**n you, read!!) If On a Winter's Night a Traveller by Italo Calvino. Check out excerpts here, here; find the book at isbn.nu (at least two other editions in print, check your favorite bookseller). -
Re:Wendy's Recycles!
At least Wendy's doesn't waste unsold burgers, ever wonder where the chili meat comes from?
"When the meat looks like it is no longer edible as a hamburger, it's designated as 'chili meat.' It's thrown into a container and all of the chili meat is collected at the end of the day, placed into a plastic bag, and thrown into the freezer. Each morning, they'd make two pots of chili"
Don't forget the hot sauce!! -
The heart of the net is...
Routers.
Scientology links.
Open protocols.
Free music.
Post-9/11 web responses.
Chat hosts and BBS admins.
Ancient packet switchers.
Executive buzzwords.
Open Source.
Online directories.
Cyber greed.
That guy who just fragged you in Wolfenstein.
The Imperial Domain Droids.
Well-meaning POW/MIA industry dupes.
The Hamster Dance.
Paranoid cartoon fantasy diagrams.
War, damnation and hypertext.
Swedish fiber stations.
Statutory IRC.
Beepstalkers.
Geeks. -
If you like Zim...
Most die-hard Zim fans probably know this, but if you're a fan of a show but not familiar with Jhonen Vasque's other work, you owe it to yourself to get ahold of a copy of Squee and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. The first is the more accessable and Zim-like; the second is Jhonen's quintisential work, but it is much darker and more philosophical. All his work is available from Slave Labor Graphics. (Avoid Fillerbunny and especially the Bad Art Collection; these are for die-hard fans only.)
More info:
Link
Link
Link
Link -
Re:The solution to spam.... except for the fact that IQ follows pretty close to a Gaussian distribution, except for deviations in the extreme (e.g., there are way more 180 IQs in the world than there should be).
I have always found that interesting though. 80% of people don't think that they are more attractive than average, not that they are more honest than average (I'd guess 65%, tops, on both counts), but with intelligence, every man is a closet savant and every genuinely intelligent person is a William James Sidis but for a different environment or less pr0n and other distractions. Why does practically everybody need to think that they are more intelligent than they are?
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Sprouts info
The link to sprouts mentioned in the original query seems to have an error in attribution.
"Sprouts is an interesting paper and pencil game for two players. It was invented in Cambridge in the 1970's."
Take a look at: http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc97/4_5_97/mathlan d.htm where it states "Sprouts was invented in 1967 by Princeton mathematician John H. Conway and by Michael S. Paterson, when both were at the University of Cambridge in England."
There's a bunch more info on game play, theory, and mathematical background on the game at that link, as well as this link: http://www.forum.swarthmore.edu/news.archives/geo
m etry.research/article399.html to a strategy by John Conway on a strategy for game play.
As an aside, I knew a guy at RPI who in 1981 or so wrote a program to play the game and graphically display the results... if you wanted it to, it would show all the possibilities as it tried different moves, too! Pretty amazing feat considering the capabilities of the computers we had available at the time.
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Apache notification module released
Nick Tonkin has already written an extension to Apache::CodeRed that notifies administrators of infected hosts of both the CodeRed and Nimda worms. The module requires Apache+mod_perl and is available from here.
Nick's announcement is here and important configuration instructions are here.
Thanks to Nick, Nathan, and all the mod_perl crew for their quick work. -
Apache notification module released
Nick Tonkin has already written an extension to Apache::CodeRed that notifies administrators of infected hosts of both the CodeRed and Nimda worms. The module requires Apache+mod_perl and is available from here.
Nick's announcement is here and important configuration instructions are here.
Thanks to Nick, Nathan, and all the mod_perl crew for their quick work. -
Re:Evolving value of Pi
It's not necesarily true, an infinitely long irrational number does not necessarily include every other possible number sequence. Go here for more info.
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Automated notification script
To automatically notify webmasters of infected sites, if you have mod_perl/Apache, use this script:
http://forum.swarthmore.edu/epigone/modperl/nehzah prerm
It identifies any attempt to access '/default.ida', looks up the MX records of the remote IP, and sends a notification to postmaster@. It is not a 'hack back', just a notification email. -
Re:Craziness with transcendental and imaginary #s
Yep, this bit is usually referenced when speaking of Euler equation.
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Re:Random bits that are in Pi somewhere
Why concentrate on just pi? If they show it's true for all trancendental numbers, they've got it for pi, e, etc.
I'd be happy with just pi for starters... ;)
Furthermore, it is not true for all trancendental numbers: for example, 1/n^(1!)+1/n^(2!)+1/n^(3!)+1/n^(4!)+1/n^(5!)+...
are trancendental, but with n=10 that number has only 1's and 0's, so it's not normal.
Can pi appear in pi anywhere? I guess not, since that would mean that pi repeats. Could e be in pi? I suppose if e was in pi, and pi was in e, then pi would be in pi, which I guessed earlier it couldn't be. But, maybe I'm wrong and there's a loophole since if pi contains itself, there's an infinite recursion going on.
Pi can't appear in pi, because that would make it repeat and make it rational, which it isn't (at least the way I understand "pi in pi"). Is e in pi? Not neccessarily. These guys are trying to prove that any finite number series can be found in pi, and e is infinitely long. If it's true, then you can choose any n and you can find n digits of e in pi, but not infinitely many.
Of course, e might be in pi (though I consider that unlikely - this would mean that pi=p/q+e*10^(-n) where p, q and n are integers, which seems quite weird). But what these guys are trying to prove doesn't show that. -
Re:(-5 Moronic)
i should've looked further - all i'd found when i originally posted was a Java applet that computed random birthday combinations.
here's a more in-depth look:
http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/faq/faq.birthd ayprob.html
my stats class lent me an intuition about the subject, but i'm rusty on the mechanics of higher-level probability computation - else i would've provided a proof for my preposterous claim, sorry... -
Re:Easy--infinite number of primes
Actually, any finite sequence CAN be found in a prime number. I don't know if a similar proof has been done for Pi, I seem to recall seeing one, but I haven't been able to find/recreate it.
Anyway, here's a link supporting the claim for prime numbers. "Accidental order in Pi/e" -
Re:provably unbreakable?
Ack! Stop moderating these posts up! That's not true! Go take discrete math!
The equation you listed there happens to be "Fermat's last theorum" which has been proven to have no solution. The proof was discovered in 1995 using the method of proof by contradiction, which is a common method for showing that an equation has no solution. You can get about his proof details here:
http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/problems/saleh 12.10.96.html
Some other famous ones in computer science are proofs that infinite compression is impossible, or Alan Turings famous disproof of "The Halting Problem" that is a basis for computer programming. -
Re:OffTopicBloody hell yes it is! Ok, so maybe we've misunderstood each other. I'll state my stand again, lamely obvious:
By sqrt() I mean the root sign, the one that loks somewhat like \/"""
x^2 = 9 <==> x=sqrt(9) would be wrong, missing one solution
x^2 = 9 <==> x=± sqrt(9) would be correct
sqrt(9) = -3 would be wrong
sqrt(9) = 3 would be correct
sqrt(9) = ± 3 would be wrong
About your definition; that's not the 'square root'. It's a general case, and the sign convention should have been pointed out in that book (I don't have it). As this semi-decent page says, "If a is any nonnegative real number, then its square root is the nonnegative number whose square is a" and "Unlike square roots, the cube root of a number may be negative".
Now of course I didn't find some real good web references backing me up and explaining the thing once more, so we can see where we differ. Misunderstandings are easier to avoid using paper (refering to GIFs on a real page) than ASCII art. Anyway, here are a few:
"[...] when we take the square root of a value, we want the principle square root. For real numbers, that is the positive value. "
http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/problems/andre w11.24.98.html
"[...]the square root sign denotes the positive square root"
http://www.stockportmbc.gov.uk/curriculum/maths/ma ths03.htm
"Positive numbers have always have two square roots, one positive and one negative. The radical sign, , always denotes the positive, or principle, square root. Zero only has one square root, 0 itself. Negative numbers do not have real number square roots.
5 is the square root of 25 because 5 5 = 25. 5 is the Principle Square Root because it is positive." http://epsb.edmonton.ab.ca/schools/crestwood/real_ numbers_1.3.html
Perhaps I should have said 'The radical sign' or something instead of sqrt()? -
One Math Reference
When I was looking for a way to compute algorithms of arbitrary bases... when the scripting language I had only did natural Log... I fonud this: http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/
I see the whole web as one big math reference... a search on Google can answer most mathematics questions.
-Jim
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Polygon naming
My two cents... Math Faq on Polygons
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Re:Code is not a form of expression!
You must be kidding. Would you have us believe that your garden variety program that computes the value of pi using a mathematical relation, and this program by Wesley that calculates pi by computing its own area, are the same? That neither (especially the latter) are creative, unique, artistic or expressive? Bullshit.
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Re:The bad thing about this...
The really sad thing is that this is more true than you might think. We've seen time and again that superior technology doesn't automatically "win" in the marketplace. Savvy marketing and sales are critically important business functions. People might think that
.oog is stupid, or they might not. The point is that that stinking file extension really is important.
FEAR OOG!
(1) OOG, The Object Orientation Game
(2) Welkom bij Tennisvereniging Oog In Al
(3) Oog TV (Has a cool interface. Check it out!)
(4) Out of Game (OOG)
(5) OOG Radio!
(6) Yes kids, Oog in Oog (Hmm...does "oog" mean "eye" in Dutch.)
(7) Oh baby!Even more oog in oog
John S. Rhodes
WebWord.com (Usability Vortal)
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Re:At least they didn't plan to blow it up
Er... was.
Unfortunatly, Alexander Abian passed away last year. His collegues in sci.physics and sci.math miss him very much.
Abian's Iowa State homepage(last updated 4/28/97)
Abian's obituary
A tribute by A. Plutonium
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"I have also mastered pomposity, even if I do say so myself." -Kryten -
Re:Use Access as a frontend to MySQL
- are there any other ASP solutions for Apache? I've yet to find one
Hey, there sure are. Joshua Chamas' Apache::ASP, which runs under mod_perl, is probably the best solution. It runs exactly as IIS' ASP does, using the same constructs. It would probably be worth your while to check out.
The full Apache::ASP home page is at http://www.nodeworks.com/asp/, and there is tons of support for it on the mod_perl mailing list (including the author himself).
darren
Cthulhu for President! -
Re:Spam isn't all bad
My college does the email-based thing, and I have long since filtered the emails to a rarely-checked mailbox. The college also has lists for all women and all faculty/staff in addition to the whole student body.
The real problem with the all-student list is that people with access to it use it for notices that really aren't of interest to the entire student body. A fairly good article on the subject is here. Although specific to my campus, it has a general argument on how useful emails are obscured by the amount of garbage.
I don't think the kind of information to which you refer is spam, but the kinds of things that our all-student list send out are. You refer to information that does not involve any solicitation -- the all-student list, however, is used by faculty to solicit students to sign up for certain classes or performances or to attend shows and lectures. I am not against the all-student list for what is now, but I see what it's becoming, and it is becoming school-sanctioned spam. -
Re:I can't believe no one has brought up Zero G seI was amazed at the decorum surrounding America's first married couple on a shuttle mission.
We know there's a Zero G Club, but we haven't been told by any reputable source!
singing,
- Home, Home on Lagrange,
Where the space debris always collects.
We possess, so it seems, two of man's greatest dreams:
Solar power and zero-gee sex.
- Home, Home on Lagrange,
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Interested in more?
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Re: Perl/Python faster than Java (Wrong)
If you look at caucho.com, they have proof that Java servlets are faster than mod_perl.
No. They have a poorly done benchmark comparing to Apache::Registry which is effectively just a hack to get legacy CGI scripts to work under mod_perl. For an explanation as well as more accurate benchmarks check out this thread in the mod_perl mailing list archive
For the lazy, here are some of the relevant results:
> These tests used httperf with persistent connections, making either
> 1000 or 100 requests per connection, depending on the test. The results
> on "hello" are astounding:
> Test: "hello" -- displays "Hello, World"
> Size: 450 bytes
> httperf: 40 concurrent connections, 1000 requests/connection
> Results:
> mod_perl+Apache: 1600 req/sec
> Resin+Apache: 500 req/sec
> Resin httpd: 4600 req/sec
>
> Test: "bighello" -- lots of HTML + "Hello World"
> Size: 23888 bytes
> httperf: 40 concurrent connections, 100 requests/connection
> Results:
> mod_perl+Apache: 480 req/sec
> Resin+Apache: 300 req/sec
> Resin httpd: 280 req/sec
>
> Test: "database" -- query: "select NAME from DIVISION", returns 11
> rows
> Size: 460 bytes
> httperf: 40 concurrent connections, 100 requests/connection
> Results:
> mod_perl+Apache: 570 req/sec
> Resin+Apache: 300 req/sec
> Resin httpd: 450 req/sec
> I also tested the "file.jsp", which I renamed "fortune" in the perl
> tests. With http_load, the results again show mod_perl ahead:
> Resin:
> 1584 fetches, 10 max parallel, 489610 bytes, in 10 seconds
> 309.097 mean bytes/connection
> 158.4 fetches/sec, 48961 bytes/sec
>
> mod_perl:
> 6190 fetches, 10 max parallel, 1.98814e+06 bytes, in 10 seconds
> 321.186 mean bytes/connection
> 619 fetches/sec, 198814 bytes/sec
Of course, as with all benchmarks, these should be taken with a grain of salt; I'm just pointing out that for the benchmarks on the caucho homepage you'd better keep the salt shaker handy ;-)
Chris -
Re: Perl/Python faster than Java (Wrong)
If you look at caucho.com, they have proof that Java servlets are faster than mod_perl.
No. They have a poorly done benchmark comparing to Apache::Registry which is effectively just a hack to get legacy CGI scripts to work under mod_perl. For an explanation as well as more accurate benchmarks check out this thread in the mod_perl mailing list archive
For the lazy, here are some of the relevant results:
> These tests used httperf with persistent connections, making either
> 1000 or 100 requests per connection, depending on the test. The results
> on "hello" are astounding:
> Test: "hello" -- displays "Hello, World"
> Size: 450 bytes
> httperf: 40 concurrent connections, 1000 requests/connection
> Results:
> mod_perl+Apache: 1600 req/sec
> Resin+Apache: 500 req/sec
> Resin httpd: 4600 req/sec
>
> Test: "bighello" -- lots of HTML + "Hello World"
> Size: 23888 bytes
> httperf: 40 concurrent connections, 100 requests/connection
> Results:
> mod_perl+Apache: 480 req/sec
> Resin+Apache: 300 req/sec
> Resin httpd: 280 req/sec
>
> Test: "database" -- query: "select NAME from DIVISION", returns 11
> rows
> Size: 460 bytes
> httperf: 40 concurrent connections, 100 requests/connection
> Results:
> mod_perl+Apache: 570 req/sec
> Resin+Apache: 300 req/sec
> Resin httpd: 450 req/sec
> I also tested the "file.jsp", which I renamed "fortune" in the perl
> tests. With http_load, the results again show mod_perl ahead:
> Resin:
> 1584 fetches, 10 max parallel, 489610 bytes, in 10 seconds
> 309.097 mean bytes/connection
> 158.4 fetches/sec, 48961 bytes/sec
>
> mod_perl:
> 6190 fetches, 10 max parallel, 1.98814e+06 bytes, in 10 seconds
> 321.186 mean bytes/connection
> 619 fetches/sec, 198814 bytes/sec
Of course, as with all benchmarks, these should be taken with a grain of salt; I'm just pointing out that for the benchmarks on the caucho homepage you'd better keep the salt shaker handy ;-)
Chris -
My child's readling list. By two geeks.Warning, includes fantasy.
Warning, these books are based off of reading level, not content. Books may contain violence, sex, lots of gay people, or christianity.A wrinkle in time. by Madeleine L'Engle
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland - (Note: get a copy of The AQnnotated Alice by Martin Gardner
The hobbit. by J.R.R. Tolkien
Anything by Ray Bradbury, Robert A. Heinlein, Alan Dean Foster, or Piers Anthony
Darkover (any of the books) by Marion Zimmer Bradley
Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow by Orsen Scott Card
The Narnia series by C.S. Lewis.A decent collection of Science fiction, mostly suitable for children
Also, Please attend the Worldcon, this year it's in Chicago followed by Philadelphia, PA, then San José. We have a lot of things for you and your children.
of course, our little one is only 6 months old. Mostly he's an excuse to reread Harold and the Purple Crayon
I aplogogise for any redundancies. This list took awhile to compile and find the links, especially as the co-author was breastfeeding at the time...
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Greatest Common Factor
Here's an essay that explains why people misuse "least common denominator" in a way that shows how dumb they are. Here's more math background if you're still confused.
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Zero: even or odd? ... an answerMy wife and I had the same argument over zero's status of even-ness (though I didn't go so far as to tell her to "get get a fucking education"). We got into the same argument again tonight about it and I went digging around and found this link:
http://forum.swa rthmore.edu/dr.math/problems/goldberg.3.31.97.htm
l ...which, on the surface, settle the argument (in my favor) that zero is even.I have to say this is "an" answer and not "the" answer, as Dr. Math turns out not be a doctor, nor one specific person ("he" is instead math students at Swarthmore College). So, the answer lacks a sense of overwhelming credibility that an actual doctor of mathematics would have had....
-adam a
ps. crappy slashdot user code keeps me "anonymous"
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Re:What about sybase RAW IO ?
You don't need the patch for "raw devices" to use
Sybase on Linux. You just use partitions as block devices. The mailing list archives have more on the issues involved in choosing whether to use a file system or "raw device" ( archive ), i.e. recoverability.
We are using Sybase on Linux for several web based services. We have chosen it for speed, it's backup and recovery features, it's support for referential integrity, stored procedures, and all the other things one would expect from a SQL-89/92 compliant database engine. MySQL just doesn't offer those features, although there are ways to imitate them.
At a fraction of the cost of Oracle ( and DB2 ), it's hard not to take a good look at Sybase. At least if money is an object. Oh and by the way....
ASE 11.0.3 is FREE! I don't think there is another database engine with as many features, robustness, and speed that make that claim.
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Yes, you're crazy.
But that's another issue entirely.
:)
The thing is, a lot of one's romantic notions turn out to be off the mark. See what grad school is perceived to be about by somebody who's done it.
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Grad school? Think again!
Beware. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Here's something I wrote late one night after a few years of grad school:
Not everything about grad school is bad. You can work any 70 hours per week that you want. If you just want to waste time and never graduate, and you find the right adviser, you don't even have to work at all. And the people you meet are generally smart, unusual, and fun. But for me grad school is fun just like playing Tetris all night is fun. In the morning you realize that it was sort of enjoyable, but it didn't get you anywhere and it left you very very tired.
Keep in mind that I'm not a CS grad student. I'm a semiconductor engineer in EE, where IMHO a Ph.D. makes a lot more sense than it does in CS.
To get a Comp Sci perspective one might ask Philip Greenspun, MIT Ph.D. [emphasis mine]:
A lot depends on how much you value being surrounded by interesting people thinking about interesting things. You can make more money selling tires but you have to think about tires all day. Tires are arguably much less interesting than reading Shakespeare. This explains why people go to English Lit. grad school. The difficulty I think a lot of folks have these days is that many companies are working on problems that are at least as interesting as those in academic engineering departments.
It is tough to talk about academic CS in general when you're at one of the top three schools (MIT, Stanford, or CMU). We have lots of people who are more creative and interesting than those in even the best companies. However, because academic CS is sort of a moribund field, as soon as you get down to the second-tier schools you're mostly dealing with people who lack the intelligence and creativity to get a good job in industry. This is death.
So the bottom line for me is that if you can get into an absolutely first-rank school in a field that fascinates you, go for it. Otherwise, look at it as training for a bureaucracy that would make the Prussian civil service look imaginative.
-- Philip Greenspun, October 28, 1998If you do go to grad school in CS, stop with the M.S.. There are only two good reasons to get a Ph.D.:
- You want to become a professor, and are willing to sacrifice a decade of your life in the attempt, despite the fact that the odds of finding an academic position are terrible.
- You are already in industry, and have found a specific job or salary that you want, but the hiring managers demand a Ph.D.
In my field, there are many jobs like this. In CS, I'm not so sure. Bill Gates does just fine with his high school diploma.
I went to grad school because I had fuzzy dreams of being a professor, and because I was intrigued by "the challenge". I was nuts. Now I can only wonder what I might have done if I had gotten some hard-edged advice in time.
-- MikeP.S. Cornell has a great CS school. Look me up if you come here. With my luck, I'll probably still be writing my thesis.
- You want to become a professor, and are willing to sacrifice a decade of your life in the attempt, despite the fact that the odds of finding an academic position are terrible.
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Re:office suites and unix fonts
You can learn the difference here. I don't know why people do this either. I believe they like appearing more learned than they are.
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Here are the numbers
This won't format quite right since Slashdot doesn't accept the "pre" tag (why?)...
HTTPD Web Application Env Hits/s Operating Sys. Chip Session Client HTTP/x By
----- ------------------- ------ -------------- ---- ------- ------ ------ --
*apache 1.3.6 static html 996.41 Linux 2.2.10 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 mod_perl 518.24 Linux 2.2.10 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 C/C++ cgi executable 210.19 Linux 2.2.10 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 perl cgi 7.22 Linux 2.2.10 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 static html 1183.64 FreeBSD 3.2 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 mod_perl 568.28 FreeBSD 3.2 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 C/C++ cgi executable 154.94 FreeBSD 3.2 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 perl cgi 6.94 FreeBSD 3.2 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
As extracted from this post on the mod_perl mailing list which summarizes all the results of everyone so far.
Here is the author's summary:
Subject: Benchmarks
Author: Chip Turner
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:40:44 -0400 (EDT)
As promised, I've run some benchmarks under Linux and FreeBSD comparing
Perl CGI, C CGI, flat html, and mod_perl. I've tried to duplicate the
methodology used by the benchmarks posted here in the past. The results
were fairly interesting. If anything can be concluded, it is that Perl
CGI is dead for serious web development. It's just way, way, way too
slow. Apache::Regostry can improve this (and I've not tested how much of
an effect it would have), but 7 requests per second compared to about 550
requests per second with mod_perl is _quite_ a significant gap.
Another interesting result is that for non-CGI requests, FreeBSD seems to
be about 10% faster than Linux in the mod_perl and flat html tests.
The info, including httpd.conf, the test script, and other info is
available at http://perl.pattern.net/bench/. Any feedback is definitely
welcome. If there is much interest, I can add an Apache::Registry version
of bench.cgi to the test, as well as a C Hello World Apache module.
(perl.pattern.net is a new DNS entry, so it might not have propogated yet.
Hopefully it will within a few hours.)
Chip
as found here. -
Here are the numbers
This won't format quite right since Slashdot doesn't accept the "pre" tag (why?)...
HTTPD Web Application Env Hits/s Operating Sys. Chip Session Client HTTP/x By
----- ------------------- ------ -------------- ---- ------- ------ ------ --
*apache 1.3.6 static html 996.41 Linux 2.2.10 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 mod_perl 518.24 Linux 2.2.10 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 C/C++ cgi executable 210.19 Linux 2.2.10 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 perl cgi 7.22 Linux 2.2.10 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 static html 1183.64 FreeBSD 3.2 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 mod_perl 568.28 FreeBSD 3.2 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 C/C++ cgi executable 154.94 FreeBSD 3.2 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
*apache 1.3.6 perl cgi 6.94 FreeBSD 3.2 PIII-500 no ab 1.0 ct
As extracted from this post on the mod_perl mailing list which summarizes all the results of everyone so far.
Here is the author's summary:
Subject: Benchmarks
Author: Chip Turner
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:40:44 -0400 (EDT)
As promised, I've run some benchmarks under Linux and FreeBSD comparing
Perl CGI, C CGI, flat html, and mod_perl. I've tried to duplicate the
methodology used by the benchmarks posted here in the past. The results
were fairly interesting. If anything can be concluded, it is that Perl
CGI is dead for serious web development. It's just way, way, way too
slow. Apache::Regostry can improve this (and I've not tested how much of
an effect it would have), but 7 requests per second compared to about 550
requests per second with mod_perl is _quite_ a significant gap.
Another interesting result is that for non-CGI requests, FreeBSD seems to
be about 10% faster than Linux in the mod_perl and flat html tests.
The info, including httpd.conf, the test script, and other info is
available at http://perl.pattern.net/bench/. Any feedback is definitely
welcome. If there is much interest, I can add an Apache::Registry version
of bench.cgi to the test, as well as a C Hello World Apache module.
(perl.pattern.net is a new DNS entry, so it might not have propogated yet.
Hopefully it will within a few hours.)
Chip
as found here. -
More Web Numbers
Here is an interesting (informal) test that includes lots of dynamic content generation mechanisms.
-
Use squid in reverse proxy configurationRob,
You silly doof! Don't let your expensive mod_perl+mysql processes sit there pushing bytes down 28.8 & 56K pipes. Use squid in reverse proxy mode to buffer the output of mod_perl and then let squid, which has extremely cheap threads, twiddle its thumbs waiting for the client to receive.
This is all well documented in recent discussions on mod_perl@apache.org. See also the mod_perl guide and the mod_perl mailing list archives.
-
Confronting this at swarthmore.eduSwarthmore college (where I'm a sys admin for the cs dep't) is right now confronting exactly this issue.
A cracker broke into a student's Linux 2.0.34 machine in a dorm subnet (we presume he port scanned to find the machine, haven't quite tracked down from where yet), ran a sniffer with which he gained passwords to cc.swarthmore.edu (Digital Unix, school's official server, all student users have /usr/bin/nologin as their shell), sccs.swarthmore.edu (Linux 2.0.35, run by a student computer users' group, see this), and cs.swarthmore.edu (Sun Enterprise 450 running SunOS/Solaris 2.6, CS departments main server).
The details of the breakin are available if you want them (email me, be sure to prune out the NOSPAM part), but are less relevant here than our response. To date, that has been:
- to lock up and check out the systems we know where effected
- to (plan to) perform our own portscan of all the campus subnets (basically, one for each building) so we can find any other machines in promiscuous mode and warn users of other insecure OSes (sorry, but Linux 2.0.34 or earlier definitely qualfies as insecure... really, any Linux does)
- to form a new users' group (or, really, a subset of the SCCS) with open and announce mailing lists for all students running some form of Unix on their dorm computers
- to schedule a security seminar (run by the SCCS), to which all of the above group are strongly urged to come.
/. can be a pain, and it'd waste less bandwidth to post a compiled statement on the subject.) -
Confronting this at swarthmore.eduSwarthmore college (where I'm a sys admin for the cs dep't) is right now confronting exactly this issue.
A cracker broke into a student's Linux 2.0.34 machine in a dorm subnet (we presume he port scanned to find the machine, haven't quite tracked down from where yet), ran a sniffer with which he gained passwords to cc.swarthmore.edu (Digital Unix, school's official server, all student users have /usr/bin/nologin as their shell), sccs.swarthmore.edu (Linux 2.0.35, run by a student computer users' group, see this), and cs.swarthmore.edu (Sun Enterprise 450 running SunOS/Solaris 2.6, CS departments main server).
The details of the breakin are available if you want them (email me, be sure to prune out the NOSPAM part), but are less relevant here than our response. To date, that has been:
- to lock up and check out the systems we know where effected
- to (plan to) perform our own portscan of all the campus subnets (basically, one for each building) so we can find any other machines in promiscuous mode and warn users of other insecure OSes (sorry, but Linux 2.0.34 or earlier definitely qualfies as insecure... really, any Linux does)
- to form a new users' group (or, really, a subset of the SCCS) with open and announce mailing lists for all students running some form of Unix on their dorm computers
- to schedule a security seminar (run by the SCCS), to which all of the above group are strongly urged to come.
/. can be a pain, and it'd waste less bandwidth to post a compiled statement on the subject.) -
Confronting this at swarthmore.eduSwarthmore college (where I'm a sys admin for the cs dep't) is right now confronting exactly this issue.
A cracker broke into a student's Linux 2.0.34 machine in a dorm subnet (we presume he port scanned to find the machine, haven't quite tracked down from where yet), ran a sniffer with which he gained passwords to cc.swarthmore.edu (Digital Unix, school's official server, all student users have /usr/bin/nologin as their shell), sccs.swarthmore.edu (Linux 2.0.35, run by a student computer users' group, see this), and cs.swarthmore.edu (Sun Enterprise 450 running SunOS/Solaris 2.6, CS departments main server).
The details of the breakin are available if you want them (email me, be sure to prune out the NOSPAM part), but are less relevant here than our response. To date, that has been:
- to lock up and check out the systems we know where effected
- to (plan to) perform our own portscan of all the campus subnets (basically, one for each building) so we can find any other machines in promiscuous mode and warn users of other insecure OSes (sorry, but Linux 2.0.34 or earlier definitely qualfies as insecure... really, any Linux does)
- to form a new users' group (or, really, a subset of the SCCS) with open and announce mailing lists for all students running some form of Unix on their dorm computers
- to schedule a security seminar (run by the SCCS), to which all of the above group are strongly urged to come.
/. can be a pain, and it'd waste less bandwidth to post a compiled statement on the subject.)