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The Echelon Myth

Prominent right-wing bloggers - including Michelle Malkin, the Corner, Wizbang and Free Republic -- are pushing the argument that President Bush's warrantless domestic spying program isn't news because the Clinton administration did the same thing.

The right-wing outlet NewsMax sums up the basic argument:

        During the 1990's under President Clinton, the National Security Agency monitored millions of private phone calls placed by U.S. citizens and citizens of other countries under a super secret program code-named Echelon...all of it done without a court order, let alone a catalyst like the 9/11 attacks.

That's flatly false. The Clinton administration program, code-named Echelon, complied with FISA. Before any conversations of U.S. persons were targeted, a FISA warrant was obtained. CIA director George Tenet testified to this before Congress on 4/12/00:

        I'm here today to discuss specific issues about and allegations regarding Signals Intelligence activities and the so-called Echelon Program of the National Security Agency...

        There is a rigorous regime of checks and balances which we, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency and the FBI scrupulously adhere to whenever conversations of U.S. persons are involved, whether directly or indirectly. We do not collect against U.S. persons unless they are agents of a foreign power as that term is defined in the law. We do not target their conversations for collection in the United States unless a FISA warrant has been obtained from the FISA court by the Justice Department.


Meanwhile, the position of the Bush administration is that they can bypass the FISA court and every other court, even when they are monitoring the communications of U.S. persons. It is the difference between following the law and breaking it.

Better watch your step watch, Mitt. You're not in Utah anymore.

Why should he start worrying now. Playing to the corporates has been working well for him so far. http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=819
Don't forget, he's a (former) venture capitalist who spent almost 10 million to get elected. He's there for a reason...

I've been following this story quite closely, and I've never heard anyone call Jack Murtha a terrorist.
No, But jean Schmidt called him a coward. Here's a video from C-SPAN

A formerly classified 1995 Pentagon intelligence document titled "Possible Use of Phosphorous Chemical" describes the use of white phosphorus by Saddam Hussein on Kurdish fighters:

IRAQ HAS POSSIBLY EMPLOYED PHOSPHOROUS CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST THE KURDISH POPULATION IN AREAS ALONG THE IRAQI-TURKISH-IRANIAN BORDERS. [...]

IN LATE FEBRUARY 1991, FOLLOWING THE COALITION FORCES' OVERWHELMING VICTORY OVER IRAQ, KURDISH REBELS STEPPED UP THEIR STRUGGLE AGAINST IRAQI FORCES IN NORTHERN IRAQ. DURING THE BRUTAL CRACKDOWN THAT FOLLOWED THE KURDISH UPRISING, IRAQI FORCES LOYAL TO PRESIDENT SADDAM ((HUSSEIN)) MAY HAVE POSSIBLY USED WHITE PHOSPHOROUS (WP) CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST KURDISH REBELS AND THE POPULACE IN ERBIL (GEOCOORD:3412N/04401E) (VICINITY OF IRANIAN BORDER) AND DOHUK (GEOCOORD:3652N/04301E) (VICINITY OF IRAQI BORDER) PROVINCES, IRAQ.

In other words, the Pentagon does refer to white phosphorus rounds as chemical weapons -- at least if they're used by our enemies.

When Sadam is using it, then it's illegal and this guy is a new Hitler (I'm not defending him here, he deserves jail for life). But when the US army does ... it's ok, cause you know they are good guys, so it cannot be a chemical weapon. They would not lie to us.

In Falluja, yes the WP was used legally (not as a weapon), but it was also used to killed poeple (maybe rebels, trying do kick out an invader, who they are is not the point here)

Man if you can't open your eyes, and only filter the info that fit you wish "the guys I voted for are honest, I'm not gullible, so all they say must be the truth and everybody that says otherwise is not a patriot" ... then you are screwed

We have a say in french: Only idiots never change their mind
It means that if you are too stubborn to admit you might be wrong, then you're an idiot

Come on, nobody is perfect. Sadam is a very bad guy, but can you admit that the army IS torturing people (including innocent bystanders) on orders from high up, that the war was pushed on bogus info (either the government lied and they deserve jail, or they were very incompetent and should be removed from office)

As Napoleon said:
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
I honestly don't know which one to pick, maybe it's both

1. The Dems were not in the majority in the Senate when either vacancy occurred during the Clinton administration, so they had to take into account who could be confirmed in a floor vote (note: not a filibuster). The Republican Senators had just as much right to vote to reject someone in a floor vote as Clinton did to nominate them. The Republicans are not in the same position today. They are virtually certain to prevail in a floor vote.

2. Clinton could not claim a mandate from his election for appointing liberal justices because he was never elected with a majority of votes, only a plurality. In contrast, the Republicans in the Senate circa the 1990's *could* claim a mandate for blocking very liberal justices since they were in the majority. Bush can certainly claim a mandate from the 2004 election for appointing conservative justices (he did not hide his admiration for Scalia/Thomas), and the Republicans generally can claim a mandate for confirming them from controlling a majority of seats in the Senate.

3. Hatch told Clinton he could get a liberal confirmed but it would take a fight and Clinton decided he did not want the fight -- he wanted to use his political capital elsewhere. The same applies to Bush, but Bush does not mind the fight: he wants to use his capital here. Ironically, it may end up being the legacy of the Democrats blocking Bush's Social Security plans that he decides he has nothing to lose here -- if his principal legislative goal is already dead, why not go for broke on the Supreme Court?

http://forums.go.com/abcnews/thread?threadID=23501 4

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/02/bush-directly- involved/

Absolutely. Not intelligent control of the _situation_ to preserve life and reduce suffering. _Their_ control. They treated New Orleans like they treat Iraq: military lockdown with total disregard for the people. It is an example up close and brought home of how, first and foremost, the U.S. has a military response to all chaos. Remember the words of Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard:

  "Three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA, we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. When we got there with our trucks, FEMA says don't give you the fuel. Yesterday -- yesterday -- FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards and said no one is getting near these lines"

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/04/worst-abandonm ents/

If someone wants to say they are treating New Orleans like a military exercise in total removal/cleansing, who has the evidence to refute it? Whatever they think their motivations are, their _mindset_ is painfully obvious by their selective actions and inactions. "As long as we've got them concentrated in Thunderdome and the remaining exits to the city have armed guards so they can't get out themselves, we'll think about dropping in some Disani in three or four days for the ones who survive that long without water." What other interpretation is possible when they TURN BACK water trucks and then take DAYS to get people water in a Carribean summer? What other interpretation is possible when we witness the schizophrenic disjunction that FEMA says they can't get in while every network on the continent has their anchors in Thunderdome literally crying about the inhumanity? It is appropriate to say this administration has a "dangerous" mindset.

Priorities, priorities. Your legacy is always about how your actions show what you value most. I'm wrong?

they want to control all the information that's coming out of the area.

they don't want the rest of the nation to know that hundreds of THOUSANDS of people have died due to the direct negligence of this administration. they knew full well as far back as 2002 that new orleans would be in big trouble due to flooding and hurricanes. that's why they were in the middle of building levees. then all of a sudden the funding was cut off to pay for the iraq war.

there are many stories coming out of new orleans that the government and fema are doing all they can to prevent photos and news from leaking out rather than helping the afflicted. even stories of children being searched for cameras.

and just about every aid agency and foreign assistance is being turned away or being delayed as long as possible.

the fact that the rest of the world's news media are doing a far better job of covering this event than the US... is something to contemplate.

when they burned down fallujah and other cities and bombarded it with depleted uranium, which has a half life of millions of years..., and killed lots of civilians... it was ok with the US public. but when the administration redirected the funding of the new orleans levees to pay for the war and ended up causing the worst disaster in the history of the country... i just have to wonder why FEMA and this administration isn't doing everything it can to prevent the real death toll and damage assessment from coming out.

remember kids, war is good for the economy and ignorance is strength.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/war_is_a_racket_03 3103.htm

http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline

http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline

Friday, August 26

GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: [Office of the Governor]

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. [DOD]
Saturday, August 27

5AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. [White House]
Sunday, August 28

2AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: Forecasters Fear Levees Wont Hold Katrina: Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow. [Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: Were facing the storm most of us have feared, said Nagin. This is going to be an unprecedented event. [Times-Picayune]

4PM NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. Power outages will last for weeks. Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards. [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: We were briefing them way before landfall. Its not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped. [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer. [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune]
Monday, August 29

7AM KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

8AM MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE: Ive gotten reports this morning that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward, weve had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding, it is just a matter of how much. [NBCs Today Show]

MORNING BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION: I spoke to Mike Chertoff today hes the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I knew people would want me to discuss this issue [immigration], so we got us an airplane on a telephone on Air Force One, so I called him. I said, are you working with the governor? He said, you bet we are. [White House]

MORNING BUSH SHARES BIRTHDAY CAKE PHOTO-OP WITH SEN. JOHN MCCAIN [White House]

10AM BUSH VISITS ARIZONA RESORT TO PROMOTE MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: This new bill I signed says, if youre a senior and you like the way things are today, youre in good shape, dont

Actually, levee maintenance was fine, according to the Army Corps of Engineers and others.

No. Levee maintenance and flood control for the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project was about $250 million dollars behind, due to the war in Iraq. Specifically, the Lake Pontchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Protection project was funded by the Bush administration at levels far below those requested by the Army Corp of Engineers.

We just don't appreciate infrastructure, to the point where many people actually believe that roads cause traffic!

Well, they do. Poorly planned infrastructure leads to development in ways that stress that infrastructure; our road-building boom of the past few decades created a car culture that leads to more driving, thus more traffic congestion, thus more demand for roads.

I'm not sure where this 20% statistic comes from, my comment came primarily from this: http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/22/bush-nixon/ And, I believe this article is from the 22nd, before Katrina. I expect his approval rating may be a great deal lower after his recent lack of performance.

I think he needed more random links.

When George Bush was governor of Texas, he signed a law that allowed hospitals to pull the plug on brain-damaged patients who couldn't afford to pay for treatment, even if the family wanted them kept alive.