Refugee Radio Station Blocked by Red Tape

Zathrus writes "According to a Wired story, a volunteer organized low power FM radio station is being blocked by local administration and red tape. They've already won the classically big battles -- securing FCC licenses, obtaining the broadcast equipment and radios, getting the manpower, and having some big name backing -- only to be blocked at the last minute by some lower level administrators who don't think information is a worthwhile resource." From the article: "According to KAMP, Royal claimed the Astrodome was not able to provide power to KAMP's low-power FM transmitter. When KAMP offered to bring in enough batteries to power the equipment off the Astrodome's grid, they were still denied. Obey, speaking to Wired News, explained that the JIC couldn't see a use for the radio station when they had the ability to communicate via the loudspeaker system and newsletters. "

Comments

Sounds similar to my experience in Dallas...

[ThinkComp]

For anyone who's interested...

http://www.aarong.thinkcomputer.com/essays/index.h tml?id=6

Re:Sounds similar to my experience in Dallas...

[Big Jason]

Bitch, bitch, bitch. You make it sound like the Red Cross's top priority is to serve the wannabe volunteers rather than the people affected by Katrina. They're a charity for chrissakes, give them a break!

As a fellow Dallasite who actually lives near Reunion, I'm doing my part by staying out of the way .

Re:Sounds similar to my experience in Dallas...

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, I think it's probably best that you do your part. Maybe you could even do it here.

Information Control

[cerberus4696]

I'm wondering whether this has something to do with the fact that loudspeaker announcements and newsletters can be controlled by the officials in charge of the Astrodome, wheras a volunteer-run radio station can't.

Re:Information Control

[jcr]

BINGO!

Got it on the first guess.

-jcr

Re:Information Control

[CDMA_Demo]

It is ironic that in a country that goes to war against other under the colours of freedom (much like Constantine used Christianity for) attempts to segregate the very people who claim the right given by the constitution. We had seen similar hypocrisy in New York during the 2004 RNC, when protesters were forbidden from meeting in central park and were arrested for using loudspeakers. Makes you wonder who gets to excercise their rights and who doesn't.

For anyone interested in the FSRN broadcast about Katrina here is the link.

Re:Information Control

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because this is clearly a Republican plot to keep the man down.

Re:Information Control

[Baricom]

Couldn't this conceivably be a logistical problem? The equipment you need to feed a radio signal is somewhat bulky and expensive. Perhaps the people in charge don't want to provide security for the equipment, and don't want to be blamed if it gets stolen.

Re:Information Control

[Moofie]

Oh yeah, I'm sure that's it. They just don't want to see somebody else's gear stolen. Right.

Yeah.

Sure.

Re:Information Control

[zippthorne]

or 2004 DNC (boston) where protestors were segregated to "free speech zones" locked behind a fence. under a freeway ramp. down the street from the convention center.

Free speech has never meant that you have a right to be heard. The only people who would argue for that are telemarketers. Do you also think that coke employees should be able to muscle their way into paid pepsi ads?

That said, I have a real problem with the way NO is being handled. If people want to provide some service, why not let them? Same thing with the boaters who tried to get in day one with chainsaws and provisions but were turned away. It seems as if whoever was/is in charge thinks that only "official" response is acceptable and good.

Re:Information Control

[pyser]

The equipment you need to feed a radio signal is somewhat bulky and expensive.

Not so. You can fit a transmitter that will broadcast to the entire Astrodome, and several city blocks around it, in the palm of your hand.

Re:Information Control

[Catbeller]

"or 2004 DNC (boston) where protestors were segregated to "free speech zones" locked behind a fence. under a freeway ramp. down the street from the convention center."

NO, NO NO ! you dingdong, ONLY the Republicans did that. They STILL do that. No Democrat has ever, EVER HAD A FIRST AMENDMENT ZONE.

Informative my ass, SHOW YOUR SOURCE.

Re:Information Control

[finkployd]

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/2 6/145248

YHL, HAND

Finkployd

Re:Information Control

[Thomas Shaddack]

As I understood it, the transmitter is blocked by some Astrodome-level bureaucrat. Given the nature of electromagnetic waves and their ability to penetrate walls, could it be a practical solution to locate the station on some nearby non-Astrodome location under the control of another, more cooperative bureaucrat?

Re:Information Control

[eh2o]

there is no mandate to *listen* but free speech is the right to make noise (i.e. to be heard by those not wearing ear plugs) in public space (within reasonable limits (which is where we get the debate about if protestors should be confined to certain zones for "security" (or whatever BS reason the man cooks up next))).

telemarketers want the right to be heard in *private* space -- on the phone line that you pay for. coke and pepsi ads are also private space (at least, last I checked they are not tax-payer funded). apples and oranges... there is simply no comparison.

needless to say whoever has been running the show in NO is a giant turd, probably of the extremely smelly variety, and probably maintains close ties with various other breathing piles excrement.

Re:Information Control

[Anonymous Coward]

Same thing with the boaters who tried to get in day one with chainsaws and provisions but were turned away.

Red Cross and similar organizations are all too well aware that there are criminals among those who show up to volunteer. In submerged New Orleans, a boat and chainsaw are as useful for pillaging as rescuing. While it's arguable that the harm done by a minority of thieves would be less than the good done by the majority of rescuers, clearly the Red Cross has learned that, over the long run, even a few bad actors could ruin the good reputation that ARC needs to attract donations and be permitted to act on behalf of victims.

Re:Information Control

[1u3hr]

ould it be a practical solution to locate the station on some nearby non-Astrodome location

They still need to distribute the receivers in the dome, which the bureaucrats could prevent.

Re:Information Control

[Hork_Monkey]

So 100 looted houses is worth more than 1 extra saved life?

Re:Information Control

[Mozk]

Is it healthy to hold that in your hand?

Re:Information Control

[instarx]

or 2004 DNC (boston) where protestors were segregated to "free speech zones" locked behind a fence. under a freeway ramp. down the street from the convention center.

WHAT THE...!? This did not happen! It was only during the Republican convention that this happened. Also, it was only during the RNC that you could get arrested for riding your bicycle anywhere in Manhattan if there were two of you riding together - no parade permit it seems. I know, I was there.

Re:Information Control

[Catbeller]

I am humbled. O Monkey Jesus, save us from both of these damned parties. There's no difference between the DLC and the GOP.

The Bush team originated these "First Amendment" zones. I doubt we'll find a judge, after this flurry of installations these past five years, who''l put a stop to this.

Forget about the Supreme Court. They'll probably put their stamp on executing anyone who speaks outside the designated "free speech" zone.

And the peeple won't care. That's the core, the crux, the whole damned problem. What's the use of a constitution that no one cares about?

It's called decadence.

Thanks for showing us this. I completely missed it when it happened.

We need a new political party. God. Maybe those move-on people are right: we need to take over the Democratic party, make it what the old Republican party sorta used to be. Right now, we've got ultra-right-fringe loonies making up the GOP and far-far right wing me-too-ers in the Democatic leadership.

I want a cookie. It's going to take a century to clean up this mess.

Re:Information Control

[Nurf]

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/2 6/145248

You really shouldn't trust the press/media for news, nor leftist websites (Kos et al). They have a habit of not pointing out things Democrats do, and obsessing over Republicans when they do the same thing. The fact that two thirds of journalists across the USA, and nine tenths of journalists in Washington DC, self-identify as Democrats in confidential polls probably has something to do with this.

FYI, I am a foreigner living in the USA, and find it rather sad the way people cleave to identity politics in this country. The free pass Democrats get in this country also irritates me. From my point of view, you need to cut politicians open with a tree saw and count the rings to tell the difference in party.

I made the mistake of deciding to read the transcripts of White House press meetings, since Sept 2001. The end result is that I'll never trust any journalist again. I really feel sorry for any president, regardless of party.

You, fairly obviously, are trusting someone you shouldn't.

Good luck.

Re:Information Control

[stfvon007]

If armed looters ransacking those 100 houses kill 2 people, then yes.

Re:Information Control

[DaemonDazz]

Do you hold a mobile phone next to your head? Those things can transmit a lot further than a few city blocks, up to 30 or 40 kilometers, on frequencies potentially a lot more damaging to your health than broadcast FM.

Re:Information Control

[87C751]

We need a new political party.

Close. We need a new political system. The one we have now is irreparably broken.

Re:Information Control

[Anonymous Coward]

'Free speech has never meant that you have a right to be heard.'
Oh? I thought that is the reason one would speak to begin with.Thanks for clearing that up there Mr. Limbaugh.

Re:Information Control

[Elwood P Dowd]

or 2004 DNC (boston) where protestors were segregated to "free speech zones" locked behind a fence. under a freeway ramp. down the street from the convention center.

Ok, apparently that bore mentioning because quite a few people were uninformed. However, I hope you aren't using that as evidence that the limitations imposed by either the DNC or the RNC were acceptable.

Free speech has never meant that you have a right to be heard. The only people who would argue for that are telemarketers. Do you also think that coke employees should be able to muscle their way into paid pepsi ads?

Naw, dog. No one said that. The limitations being imposed here and at the DNC and RNC conventions were all excessive. There is no practical reason that the National Guard should have prevented journalists from viewing the bodies at the NOLA convention center. There was no reason to detain the guy who cursed out Dick Cheney. None of this is a huge deal, but it's not good either. If Mubarak were as organized as our politicians, he wouldn't *need* to bust heads. Doesn't that concern you?

Re:Information Control

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I'd say e.g. the German system is quite a bit different but still not really better.
Maybe the truth is that not the people need a new political system but that actually we would need new people?
I guess there is some truth in the saying "you get what you deserve".

Re:Information Control

[StormKrow]

What liberals fail to realize; is that their protesting behaviors are a nuisance to those people who are just trying to make it thru there day, and then go home.

Just because a protestor may or may not have passionate feelings towards an issue, does not mean that they will win any sympathy by going out in public and making an ass of themselves.

Protesters create a micro-drain on the economy. More public safety officers need to be assigned to the area, over-time needs to be spent in order to police the area. You protesters waste money just as irresponsibly as the people you're protesting against. The difference is, if a liberal doesn't see the expenditure, then it never existed, "Let's continue to be a nuisance."

When you protest, and the protest becomes violent, (as often is the case), you do nothing to help your arguement. The claim of, "Well the police started it..." is complete BS. When a representitive of law enforcement makes it clear and in no uncertain terms that the gathering needs to dispurse and the protesters refuse to leave, regardless of the right to free-speech, you're breaking the law and deserve to be dealt with as such.

The creation of "Free Speech" zones is actually a good idea. It removes the protesters from the people that really don't care to hear what you're saying. You're still allowed to get your message out. Those that WISH to hear what you have to say can, those that don't can go about their business. Finally it's a protection for not only the public, but for the protestors.

So really, stop whining like 3 year olds. These zones are in place for everyone's protection, and the sooner everyone realizes that, the sooner you can get back to spreading your message, no matter how misguided it may or may not be.

Re:Information Control

[Qzukk]

Those that WISH to hear what you have to say can

By walking blocks away to a place caged in underneath a roaring freeway.

The only thing it's missing is the sign "Beware of Tiger!" and the plans for destroying the Earth to make room for an intergalactic freeway.

Re:Information Control

[jimmydevice]

I wish I could mod you -1 troll to a third world hellhole. Free speech requires free listeners.

Re:Information Control

[StormKrow]

You're assuming that people WANT to hear what you have to say. It must be nice to be so self-important to assume that people actually want to hear it. ...and frankly, I find it rather ironic that you're such a proponent of free-speech, but in the same breath you wish to mod my post as "Troll" so that others won't be able to read it if it's below their threshold.

A bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

Re:Information Control

[DavidTC]

Don't fall for it.

The Democrats kept protestors away their convention. No one has the right to go to a party convention unless the party lets them. Conventions are not open to random people.

I agree, that keeping them back from the streets raises large first amendment concerns. People needed to be able to get to the convention, but people protesting the convention have just as much right to be on the sidewalk as anyone else. (Note there were permits being given out for scheduled marches and protests.)

So it's a balancing act, and the Democrats were going too far. They need to block off a pathway, keep everyone out of it who does not have an invite to the convention, and let anyone else do what they want anywhere but on the path. (Well, or on the street.)

And, of all people, the damn Democrats need to remember what happens when they let the reaction to protestors at a convention get out of hand, or do I need to mention 1968?

However, this is nothing compared to what Bush is doing, where he's keeping 'dissenters' away from public events in public places. No one who disagrees with the president can get within 100 yards of the man. People get corralled for wearing t-shirts and having bumper stickers, or carrying the wrong kind of sign.

Re:Information Control

[djw]

Free speech has never meant that you have a right to be heard.

Perhaps not, but freedom of speech combined with freedom of assembly suggest to most reasonable people that you can't be kept off of public property by those who don't like what you're saying.

Re:Information Control

[Spatch3]

I agree whole heartedly with all subsequent posts about how wonderful "Free Speech Zones" are and especially how protesters create a local economic problem what with all the extra police needed to beat them down, I mean keep the peace. You know this really does go both ways. If free speech zones were invented by the current administration to corral political protestors, then whey cant the same tactics be used against abortion protestors? Whey cant we put those "God Hates Fags" gay funeral protestors behind chain link fences and razor wire? Why couldn't we put the Christina Fundy protestors that go to Mardi Gras every year in a "free speech zone?" Or would that be "Un-American?"

One more imponderable: Why is it that on Fox news whenever they talk of protestors for any reason they always refer to them as "Anarchists?" The other day I finally heard Fox refer to protestors as actual protestors. Then it dawned on me, it was Israelis protesting being relocated out of the "occupied" territories. Only when you are right wing and have something to protest about can you be termed a protester, but if you are left wing and protesting you are an anarchist. Seems "Fair and Balanced" to me!

Re:Information Control

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh FFS, why do I never ever have mod points when I need them???

I would mod you +100, insightful if I could - I didn't think I would EVER see the phrase "I am humbled" here. You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar, and we could use many, many more like you around here. I applaud you.

And for any of those naysayers who think this might be sarcastic, it isn't - it's absolutely heartfelt.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Re:Information Control

[zippthorne]

There is no practical reason why they should've bothered even trying to show the bodies. It's disrespectful to the dead and serves no purpose: we know people died, the visible destruction and the announcements of death tally is sufficient.

Now, although I find it distasteful that they would want to show them and morbid that anyone would want to see them, I am loathe to support outright banning of this type of image or that (slippery slope and all). I'll meet you halfway: they should be allowed to show any bodies for whom they've recieved either 1) prior permission from the deceased or 2) permission from the living heirs of the deceased. If such cannot be found, assume no consent given.

And for the love of all that is holy News Networks, cut down on calling them "corpses." That word reminds of halloween show horrors more than grim realities and insults the dead. I've never heard the word corpses used so extensively (or at all) in any coverage of deadly disasters in the past, so why bandy this buzzword about now? It reminds one of the "gravitas" fiasco of 2000. It's just so gristly and insensitive of a word. I implore you, MSNBCNN/ABCBS&FOX, show some decorum.

Re:Information Control

[Elwood P Dowd]

Whatever, dude. I don't see what that has to do with my point. No one is talking about a right to be heard. Free speech rights are being shrunk to fit.

Unfortunate

[Da_Biz]

I understand the need for the Red Cross and other shelter organizers to promote a good atmosphere (well, as good as possible), but sheesh, I fail to see the harm done by a microtransmitter.

I am of the opinion that, overall, the American Red Cross is well organized and operated (I'm speaking with over six years of experience with EMS, SAR and Disaster Relief here). However, I have to sigh at the bureaucracy and lack of "out-of-the-box" thinking that sometimes crops up when I'm volunteering with them.

Re:Unfortunate

[Lally Singh]

Remember that DHS blocked the red cross for a while from getting into NOLA.

The whole radio thing, however, is part of a larger press blackout. If you can't fix it, try and cover it up and hope people forget.

Re:Unfortunate

[Da_Biz]

Remember that DHS blocked the red cross for a while from getting into NOLA.

I think there was a practical reason for that: no relief organization (excepting, perhaps, Doctors Without Borders) will knowingly send relief workers into areas that either actively or potentially dangerous.

If DHS had blocked the Red Cross from coming in after the area was secured, well, not so good.

Re:Unfortunate

[kingsquab]

Surely you're aware that it was the Louisiana Homeland Security Department that kept the Red Cross out, right?
 
The Feds are certainly not blameless in this affair, but let's give credit and blame where it is actually due.

Re:Unfortunate

[Dun Malg]

Just so we're clear, it was not the federal DHS, but the Lousiana State DHS that did it.
From the Red Cross web site: (emphasis mine)

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

Direct angry calls about FEMA bumbling to the White House, c/o Prez "Mumbler" Bush, and calls about the Red Cross being blocked to the LA Gov Mansion, c/o Gov "Crybaby" Blanco.

Re:Unfortunate

[Darby]

(I'm speaking with over six years of experience with EMS, SAR and Disaster Relief here).

So why the fuck weren't you put in charge of FEMA?
I mean what's your problem, man? Not incompetent enough or something :-)

Re:Unfortunate

[EnderWiggnz]

obviously, he didnt raise enough money for Bush.

Re:Unfortunate

[Guppy06]

Odds are Governor Blanco was responding to popular pressure. Louisiana can be a very different place from the rest of the country and they like taking care of their problems in-house. I've heard reports that people (while perhaps not the state government) in Louisiana are shunning even relief efforts from the federal government.

Your average Louisiana citizen will be able to talk your ear off about how corrupt their state and municipal government is, but will still prefer either of those two over the federal government because they consider it their own.

Re:Unfortunate

[DavidTC]

While most relief organizations won't, the American Red Cross is not one of them. All the Red Crosses/Cresents were explicted created to provide aid to people injured during military actions.

They go way beyond what Doctors Without Borders do. (Not to diminish that excellent organization.) They send people into battlefields to retrieve the wounded. 100s of volunteers have been killed trying to save people.

The idea that the American Red Cross can't cope with flooding and looters is absurd. The Red Cross, any of them, should be allowed to go anywhere during any battle or emergency at any time they damn well want.

Re:Unfortunate

[winwar]

"Your average Louisiana citizen will be able to talk your ear off about how corrupt their state and municipal government is, but will still prefer either of those two over the federal government because they consider it their own."

Pretty typical response. Similar to the "all congresscritters are crooks except mine" sentiment. The ability of people to rationalize is amazing. Of course, the the local politicians are the ones most likely to screw you over...

Re:Unfortunate

[Guppy06]

"Of course, the the local politicians are the ones most likely to screw you over..."

That's the way it should be. Harm done by local politicians is too difficult to hide (harder to dilute wrongdoing into a smaller constituency) and they're much easier to eject.

Ultimately, I feel it's not so much that they're the ones most likely to screw you over so much as the ones most likely to get caught. Stealing $100 from 1 person is easier to catch than stealing $1 from 100 people.

Re:Unfortunate

[Da_Biz]

So why the fuck weren't you put in charge of FEMA? I mean what's your problem, man? Not incompetent enough or something :-)

I think I got passed over because I don't have any experience in Arabian horse racing.

When will they learn?

[B11]

Everyone in the country has been taking politicians involved to task for the bull that's happened so far (which has hindered relief or preparedness to these poor people). Stop it already!

Re:When will they learn?

[CrazyDuke]

People where taking the polititians to task because they where NOT providing relief and where outright hindering and blocking local and private relief efforts. They found it much more convienent to just say they where providing relief and accuse everyone else of playing politics, rather than actually providing relief IN REALITY.

Lack of care

[Anonymous Coward]

It shows complete disregard for the people stuck there. The volunteers had enough power so that isn't a problem. It sounds like ultimately someone didn't like the idea of someone coming into their territory.
The radio station would be good for morale and made the people stuck in that hellhole not feel so helpless instead someone who needs a kick up the arse is just being a c*nt...

Mike Myers does a double take (n/t)

[Laconian]

/. has some lame lameness filters

Re:Mike Myers does a double take (n/t)

[pilgrim23]

Actually this brings up the question as to if the micro FM signal can be picked up on slash dot tinfoil headsets. I would say...yes.....

Re:Mike Myers does a double take (n/t)

[Titus B. Otch]

I thought the actual quote by that guy was, "George Bush hates black people." I saw the last half of that live, and I know who Mike Meyers is, but, who was that black gentleman? I didn't recognize him...

Re:Mike Myers does a double take (n/t)

[Titus B. Otch]

Nevermind. Scratch that. I found the actual video through a wikipedia link. It was rapper Kanye West and he did use the terminology as cited above, not "hate". Damn, don't I look the dumbass...

It's all about....

[Philip K Dickhead]

Control.

From the Villiage Voice:

FEMA Nixes Grassroots Radio Station for Hurricane Evacuees

Bureaucracy KO's info source at the Astrodome

by Sarah Ferguson
September 8th, 2005 5:04 PM

Although the effort was http://?www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la -na-radio8sep08,1,6993197.story?coll=la-headlines- nation>trumpeted in the media as an example of grassroots ingenuity in the face of disaster, local officials with the Federal Emergency Management Agency have nixed an attempt by Houston activists to set up a low-power radio station at the Astrodome that would have broadcast Hurricane Katrina relief information for evacuees.

The project was unplugged even though it had key support. On Monday, the Federal Communications Commission quickly granted temporary licenses to broadcast inside the Astrodome and the adjacent Reliant Center. The station was also backed by the Houston Mayor's office and Texas governor Rick Perry. But local officials said FEMA bureaucrats KO'd the station--dubbed KAMP "Dome City Radio"--because of "security concerns."

"They wanted unlimited access to the buildings, which we could not give to anyone in the media," said Gloria Roemer, a spokesperson for Harris County, which has jurisdiction over the Astrodome complex. Currently reporters are allowed in only on 15-minute guided tours.

According to Roemer, FEMA officials also believed they could not allocate "scarce" electricity, office space, and phone and Internet access to the volunteer station--even though activists say they offered to run the station on batteries and use their own cellphones.

Supporters of KAMP, which was set to launch at 95.3 FM, blame red tape and bureaucrats seeking to "manage the news."

"I'm very disappointed," said Councilmember Ada Edwards, who represents a mostly black district in central Houston and had issued a letter of support for the station. "One of the real challenges of this big tragedy has been access to communication--open and honest communication. I really hoped this would be an open outlet for people to get information that was unscripted and that would really address their needs.

"But it seems par for the course in terms of how this whole thing has been rolling out with FEMA and the Red Cross trying to keep tight control and manage the news," Edwards complained. "It's really sad when these people feel they have to sanitize all the time."

Activists with Houston Indymedia and Pacifica radio first brainstormed the idea over the weekend when they visited the Astrodome and spoke to swamped relief workers and survivors desperate for information about emergency services and news from back home.

"People were asking things like how can I get my FEMA check, do my kids need shots for school, can I get a free cellphone, how do I get out information about missing family members," says Jim Ellinger, a freelance radio consultant from Austin. "This is complicated stuff that you can't really address on a booming public address system. The mainstream radio stations are more focused on broadcasting to the general public about where to donate to hurricane relief, so there was no place for survivors to go to get what they need. "

"We talked to cops, volunteers, church groups--everyone said it was a good idea," Ellinger added.

But Astrodome officials were apparently more concerned about evacuees fighting over the radios. "They were worried about noise and people stealing them or that people would be tuning in to gangsta rap on other Houston stations, which they said could incite violence," says Tish Stringer, a graduate teacher at Rice University and organizer with Houston Indymedia. After several days of back and forth, activists agreed to provide 10,000 cheap, Walkman-style radios with batteries.

Re:It's all about....

[Marxist Hacker 42]

volunteers say they plan to begin distributing them anyway in hopes they can set up some kind of station in the Astrodome parking lot, or else partner with KPFT to provide news for hurricane survivors.

That seems to be the right idea in this case- if you can't broadcast from inside the astrodome, then get the FCC to increase the power of your license and broadcast from *outside* the astrodome.

Re:It's all about....

[Philip K Dickhead]

I love the worry about "Gangster Rap".

There's the basis of your racist bullshit from FEMA, right there. Someone got their whole family drowned, has been starved, dehydrated, literally dragged through shit, kept in a stable under the conditions of a hog farm feed-lot... Listening to Kurupt is gonna' put 'em over the edge.

Re:It's all about....

[cei]

I would think KPFT or KTRU would be all over this idea. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already... get the 10,000 radios distributed inside the dome by any means necessary, then use existing radio towers with good wattage and valid licenses whose charters are expressly about serving the community.

Re:It's all about....

[moosesocks]

        FEMA Nixes Grassroots Radio Station for Hurricane Evacuees
        Bureaucracy KO's info source at the Astrodome
by Sarah Ferguson

Since when has the dutchess of york been a journalist?

Re:It's all about....

[Philip K Dickhead]

Every fifth child in Scotland is the Duchess of York?

Re:It's all about....

[Marxist Hacker 42]

There's the basis of your racist bullshit from FEMA, right there. Someone got their whole family drowned, has been starved, dehydrated, literally dragged through shit, kept in a stable under the conditions of a hog farm feed-lot... Listening to Kurupt is gonna' put 'em over the edge.

Just as bad as right here in Portland. The Multnomah County Sheriff has a brand new jail that was built right before the recession. It's a minimum security facility- 535 beds, no bars, full service medical hospital, kitchen, Internet Access (both Wifi and brand new cubicles with two-year-old but never used computers in them on the wired network), flat screen TVs everywhere. He offered it as a shelter when it was thought that we'd get 2500 refugees here- hey, it's better than a cot in a gym of an abandoned high school, which is the other two sites offered. But because it's a J-A-I-L, the Red Cross got all racially and southern culturally sensitive and turned him down. I say, when or if refugees arrive- the Sheriff should make his pitch directly to those involved- it's a damned sight more comfortable in the barracks of the Wapato Correctional Facility than in a disused gym.

Re:It's all about....

[lspd]

"They wanted unlimited access to the buildings, which we could not give to anyone in the media," said Gloria Roemer, a spokesperson for Harris County, which has jurisdiction over the Astrodome complex. Currently reporters are allowed in only on 15-minute guided tours.

Now this makes perfect sense... If you're a refugee forced to live in a room with 10,000 other people do you really want reporters taking pictures and invading what little privacy you have?

Re:It's all about....

[Moofie]

Right, because you see lots of photographs on the radio. Good call.

Re:It's all about....

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I take it that these are the local nonprofits? Yeah, you'd think they could find say, 5 minutes out of every hour to read off an information sheet or something.

Re:It's all about....

[cei]

Indeed. KTRU is the campus station for Rice University. 50,000 watts, and their mission statement reads

The mission of KTRU as a student organization and a 50,000 watt radio station is to educate the station membership, the greater Houston community, and the students of Rice University through its progressive and eclectic programming in the spirit of the station's non-commercial, educational license. Musically, KTRU programming will endeavor to solely feature genres and/or artists who are unexposed, or unavailable on, the Houston commercial radio dial. Non-musical programming will focus on content with clear merit and of practical value to a significant segment of the communities served by KTRU.

Likewise, KPFT is the local Radio Pacifica affiliate whose mission statement includes

In radio broadcasting operations to promote the full distribution of public information; to obtain access to sources of news not commonly brought together in the same medium; and to employ such varied sources in the public presentation of accurate, objective, comprehensive news on all matters vitally affecting the community.

Either way seems like a good fit.

Re:It's all about....

[mrchaotica]

That, and sue FEMA for blocking their freedom of speech.

Re:It's all about....

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Same thing- it's still the rather racist idea that gangsta rap incites violence.

Re:It's all about....

[Zangief]

Now this makes perfect sense... If you're a refugee forced to live in a room with 10,000 other people do you really want reporters taking pictures and invading what little privacy you have?

Yes, so the world can know about the conditions you are living in, and can press the authorities about it.

Re:It's all about....

[Philip K Dickhead]

Always nice conversing with someone who's appelation refers to a state and church instrument of lethal torture...

Ms. Stringer supplied the quote - relaying the concern of FEMA - i.e.: the reasons they shut her down.

You seem to be an expert on human anatomy, though. Better luck with that pursuit!

Re:It's all about....

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

You likely don't need to have the FCC increase the power of the license - the current legally allowed wattage may very well suffice.

It takes a lot less watts than you think to broadcast from a parking lot into a building.

That close, and the inverse square law of signal power works in your favor.

And there is a heck of a lot less attenuation of FM frequencies (such as 95.3 MHz which is what they were to transmit on) than on cell phone frequencies so if cell phones work, there will likely not be too much attenuation of a 95.3 FM signal.

So if it is legal to broadcast from outside they likely can make do with the power level they are already authorized to use.

Cell towers use about 20 W power output, and they are a high frequency (more attentuation) and they get quite far and reliably when the carrier actually maintains their network.

20 W should be WELL more than enough.

Re:It's all about....

[lspd]

Yes, so the world can know about the conditions you are living in, and can press the authorities about it.

These people deserve privacy.

If a group of refugees want to hold a press conference about mistreatment, that's a different story.

Re:It's all about....

[Scudsucker]

These people deserve privacy.

Then bloody ask them if you can take their picture! The way it is now, FEMA is making that choice for them. That's not privacy, that's censorship.

Re:It's all about....

[smchris]

Absolutely. Not intelligent control of the _situation_ to preserve life and reduce suffering. _Their_ control. They treated New Orleans like they treat Iraq: military lockdown with total disregard for the people. It is an example up close and brought home of how, first and foremost, the U.S. has a military response to all chaos. Remember the words of Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard:

  "Three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA, we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. When we got there with our trucks, FEMA says don't give you the fuel. Yesterday -- yesterday -- FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards and said no one is getting near these lines"

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/04/worst-abandonm ents/

If someone wants to say they are treating New Orleans like a military exercise in total removal/cleansing, who has the evidence to refute it? Whatever they think their motivations are, their _mindset_ is painfully obvious by their selective actions and inactions. "As long as we've got them concentrated in Thunderdome and the remaining exits to the city have armed guards so they can't get out themselves, we'll think about dropping in some Disani in three or four days for the ones who survive that long without water." What other interpretation is possible when they TURN BACK water trucks and then take DAYS to get people water in a Carribean summer? What other interpretation is possible when we witness the schizophrenic disjunction that FEMA says they can't get in while every network on the continent has their anchors in Thunderdome literally crying about the inhumanity? It is appropriate to say this administration has a "dangerous" mindset.

Priorities, priorities. Your legacy is always about how your actions show what you value most. I'm wrong?

Re:It's all about....

[Philip K Dickhead]

"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State."
-- Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels

Re:It's all about....

[duchessofnyc]

FYI, the Dome radio station went live yesterday. They ended up sidestepping the local Harris County/FEMA hacks who wouldn't give them access to set up a transmitter inside the Astrodome and got the FCC to issue a new license to let them broadcast from the parking lot. here's a Village Voice update: http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0537,fergusonweb2 ,67837,2.html

Re:It's all about....

[montfort]

Perhaps you are confusing the Astrodome with the Superdome. Many people at the Astrodome seem to like it a good bit, perhaps because the Superdome was hell on Earth, complete with evil demons running wild.

Apparently, Texans, including many volunteers, are taking pretty good care of the folks from New Orleans, and many of the folks from New Orleans are planning to stay in Texas. Some of the people from New Orleans have accepted jobs in Houston.

This could be the start of a better life for many people whose families have been trapped in the stagnant, corrupt, New Orleans milieu for generations. Perhaps I sound too much like Barbara Bush with all this positive talk, but the negative talk seems to be generated mainly by people who hate Bush and hope that all the harm from Katrina will be blamed on him and cause him to resign in disgrace. I believe that many of the New Orleans people do not believe all the Bush-bashing, because they know how corrupt Louisiana government has been for hundreds of years.

The New FEMA

[Daedala]

You know, it looks like the entire disaster operation is being run on the premise that it's very, very important that minor officials be allowed to be officious.

Re:The New FEMA

[jcr]

God knows, the first thing you need in a disaster is bureaucracy. Can't leave it up to those pesky private institutions that have dealt with this kind of thing for a century or more. Gotta keep those Red Cross busybodies in their place.

-jcr

Re:The New FEMA

[Da_Biz]

Welcome to Disaster Relief. The one thing I've learned is that, to be an effective volunteer, you have to shelve your ego frequently, smile and nod when the politicos and the power hungry come by, and then get back to doing the business of helping people.

I was at a meeting yesterday for an organization interested in providing some housing options for evacuees, and I recall one idealistic young woman who spoke up who insisted that her idea (not a very practical one, to be honest) be used, because she really "wanted to help people."

Disasters are a really bad time to play any sort of ideological card (although people will anyways). Ultimately, people need to shelve any grandiose notions of being a "hero" and remember the fact that volunteers are "servants"--to those in need.

I hate to harsh anyone's mellow, and I probably would have let the girl go off and do her thing: she'll quickly find out that her idea won't work, and hopefully she'll learn. As a stubborn person myself, I'd rather see idealism tempered into reasonable action, rather than cynicism. Sometimes, you just gotta do it to learn...

Re:The New FEMA

[Daedala]

Yeah, that happens (though marshing someone's mallow sounds completely obscene, ok?).

But they seem to be getting off on _preventing_ people from being helpful. The Red Cross. Other nations. National guard units for other states that keep mobilizing and having nowhere to go. Now this radio station.

Re:The New FEMA

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Well, Congress seemed to think so in 1803- long before the Red Cross was thought of (bet YOU didn't know FEMA was that old). And it did a damned good job for us on September 12, 2001. It's just that in 2003, the buracracy took a spin into the Dilbert Principle when our bonehead President appointed a horse show judge to be the head of FEMA, instead of say, promoting somebody with emergency management experience.

Re:The New FEMA

[westlake]

God knows, the first thing you need in a disaster is bureaucracy.

Damn right.

You have 100,000 households without a car. How do you even begin to evacuate that many people without an organization in place?

Re:The New FEMA

[jcr]

You have 100,000 households without a car. How do you even begin to evacuate that many people without an organization in place?

That would be a good question for the Mayor. He didn't do too well with an organization in place, did he?

-jcr

Re:The New FEMA

[ScrewMaster]

Yes, that is true, but then again "organization" and "bureaucracy" are not necessarily synonymous. And let's face the facts: in this situation, there was far too much bureaucracy, and nowhere near enough organization.

Re:The New FEMA

[EnderWiggnz]

the mayor did fine with the evacuation. he got 80% out, and the projections thought that only 50-60% would leave on a mandatory evacuation.

Re:The New FEMA

[evilviper]

the buracracy took a spin into the Dilbert Principle when our bonehead President appointed a horse show judge to be the head of FEMA

I vote for "horse show judge" as the new euphamism for any incompetent unexperienced individual.

Re:The New FEMA

[jcr]

he got 80% out

WHO got them out? Seems to me I saw reports of people leaving by their own means. Meanwhile, the Mayor let 500 busses go to waste.

-jcr

Re:The New FEMA

[dbIII]

it looks like the entire disaster operation is being run on the premise that it's very, very important that minor officials be allowed to be officious.

It's not just the disaster operation, it's a major premise of the uber department that runs FEMA and lets petty idiots have surprising amounts of authority with little accountability. A less officious bunch would have let the many disaster relief organisations and national gaurd units who were packed and read to move in go ahead, and not cared about the paperwork until later.

With the next disaster local groups will not be expecting any degree of organisation so it may well go better - the guy at Amtrack who was going to put on extra trains before the hurricane but was told not to bother by FEMA will most likely ignore them in the next instance and assume that there is no evacuation plan so he may as well get as many people out as they can.

I suppose the biggest lesson which still hasn't been learned is that you can't get away with "spinning" the facts on a domestic event that affects a lot of people - restricting broadcasts like this is an attempt to stop uncontrolled information getting out by a bunch of people who don't want to be made to look bad.

Re:The New FEMA

[dbIII]

"horse show judge"

I bet the uber department that runs FEMA liked the idea because it had heard that the guy had Arabian experience.

Third world cronyism resulted in third world quality disaster response - makes sense really.

Re:The New FEMA

[pNutz]

He ordered a mandatory evacuation, the first in our city's 400-year history. This caused many, many people that might have stayed to leave and saved many lives.

Also, who is going to drive those 500 buses in the middle of a cat5 hurricane? 500 suicidal bus drivers? Maybe 500 national guardsman... Let's link that The Onion article again:

Louisiana National Guard Offers Help By Phone From Iraq.

Re:The New FEMA

[DavidTC]

That's why I propose a new Federal organization that people at all levels, from local to state to Federal (School busses, BTW, are state property, and local governments can't just run off with them.), report resources to. This organization would be in charge of creating disaster plans for all obvious disasters, and have the ability to make plans for new and unexpected disasters.

Then, during national disasters, locals would report problems to them (Perhaps we could give locals radios, and even have officals show up ASAP.), and this hypothetical organization could assigned resources, to make sure that they were used in an efficient manner as possible and that things like this don't happen again. It wouldn't need to provide any actual resources, as the resources already exist, it would just need to manage the resourced during the emergency.

We could call this the National Emergency Management Agency or the Federal Emergency Control Agency or something like that.

Of course, nowadays they'd insist on putting it under the Department of Homeland Pretend Security, and instead of a real emergency management expert, we'd probably end up with some political appointee whose last job was overseeing the National Rabbit Breeder's Association or something, and probably got fired from that.

Re:The New FEMA

[jcr]

Also, who is going to drive those 500 buses in the middle of a cat5 hurricane?

Who said anything about driving out in the middle of the hurricane? Those busses were ready to go, and went completely unused on the day the evacuation was ordered.

-jcr

Sounds like typical petty power high

[Anonymous Coward]

For fucks sake, just let them go ahead won't you?

Not letting this happen shows such levels of pettiness and 'omg i'm in a position of power over poor unfortunate people, let's FUCK THEM SOME MORE' ... never mind the racist issue about rap music.

Politics in the way

[kid_oliva]

it is really sad when people organize and work hard to help their fellow man, just to be stopped by bureaucracy. Obey should be helping the cause and not trying to put the kabosh on it. Maybe this why you don't see more people going out on a limb, because they think it will just get shot down?

Indymedia? Village Voice?

[winkydink]

C'mon these guys make NPR look like Fox News. How about a little balance?

Fascists Out in Force

[SirChive]

Wars, Depressions and Natural Disasters always bring out the Fascists. They gravitate to any venue where they can make the case that control triumphs freedom.

Re:Fascists Out in Force

[Buran]

It's fascist to point out where the government has fucked up when it was supposed to be out there helping? In that case ...

Sieg heil!

Re:Fascists Out in Force

[Jim_Callahan]

Because control is necessary to survive in hard times. In times of abundance, you can hand people all the freedom you want. Republicanism (not the party, the political system that the US has) is tweaked to, among other things, a particular set of resource distributions. Control-heavy styles are twinked toward another.

That said, the bureaucrats involved were most likely just as stupidly bureaucratic before last week. That's why they were in a position that wasn't at all urgent at the time-- it wasn't a problem.

Re:Fascists Out in Force

[Anonymous Coward]

I think about how bad it must be for some of the holdouts. Living on their own land (unflooded for some) and in lawful possession of firearms. Having their doors kicked in without warrant by out-of-state troops with guns and having their homes searched, guns and pets confiscated (or stolen), and asked nicely to be taken away for processing, background checks, body search, and confiscation of any substances you may have enjoyed to get you through recent hell, and being shipped to some strange city. I might begin to wonder of our armies of compassion might indeed be deployed better against some other foreign suckers.

Well of course they were denied

[Anonymous Coward]

The Astrodome is a stadium cum shelter. It is not a radio station. What the harried managers least need right now is some overenthusiastic hams trying to turn it into one.

This is not the time to reinvent the wheel or foist your pet project on someone elses lap. If you have critically important things to say to the refugees over the radio, then partner with an existing radio station.

Quit trying to waste the limited space, resources, and management time of the Astrodome with useless crap.

Public Safety Bah!

[Hategiants]

This is absurd, what year is this again? Newsletters and loudspeakers to distribute safety information but no radio? Need to inform thousands of people of imminent danger, please wait while we print newsletters and distribute them one at a time to inform people of the matter. Failure to use technology to properly distribute information is one of the many reasons this disaster occured in the first place. Lets just repeat that mistake again.

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[RentonSentinel]

You missed an important point:

-The radio station would not be operated by the controlling agencies.

In times of crisis, when an organization assumes control, its control is total. It controls the food, clothing, shelter, water, information, and whatnot.

If they need some communications system, they can bring that online. Otherwise, the people are free to listen to any radio station of their choosing...

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[damiam]

What the fuck? Are you trying to say people can't have food or wear clothes not provided by FEMA? What's the difference between that and radio?

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[RentonSentinel]

Wrong.

I'm saying that if the FEDS control the dome, they don't have to let in a big Burger King van or a Nate's Hotdog cart that has not been approved.

If people die because of the Feds making bad choices, that is on the Feds.

But they are the system we have decided to put in place. Not some unelected freelancers with their own agenda.

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[Hategiants]

Well clearly you missed an important point:

These 'controlling agencies' need all the help they can get. Just because this is a crisis doesn't mean civil rights are thrown to the wind. Primary media outlets are fine at spreading generalized nonsense. But when it comes to critical local information, the slack must be picked up by independent groups like this.

The airwaves are already filled with false information, a low powered fm transmitter and a group of folks who want to help the situation are certainly not going to make anything worse.

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[RentonSentinel]

So these people have a monopoly on truth?

Bullsh*t.

They are unelected and not approved to handle this crisis.

If they wish to donate their radios or news reporting skills to the FEDS I'm sure they would be allowed to do that.

But they want CONTROL which means their motives are suspect. They have an agenda just like everyone else, you just don't want to believe it.

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[Moofie]

"But they are the system we have decided to put in place. Not some unelected freelancers with their own agenda."

How many FEMA officials were on the last ballot in your precinct?

So people should stop trying to help, and just let FEMA do their thing?

If that were the plan, there would be nobody in the Astrodome, because all the evacuees would be dead.

FEMA officials are like those hall monitors in an elementary school. I've got some suggestions as to where they should stick their whistles.

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[nitehawk214]

This is absurd, what year is this again?
 
1984
Why do you ask?

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[greening]

If it's run on a volunteer basis (or whatever), what's to stop one of them from yelling fire? Do you think that wouldn't cause a panic? It wouldn't get people rushing towards an exit and potentially CAUSING a distaster? There's all kinds of bad outcomes surrounding an independent radio station in there. If newsletters and loudspeakers aren't enough, then there's something wrong.

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[neomunk]

Yeah, that's right, and that's why we should abolish free speech altogether, because if it's not official neocon news, it might be bad for the people. And while we're at it, someone might use one of those guns we have in America to shoot someone rich and important, so let's get rid of those too.

And wait, what if one of these ultraviolent peace protestors decides to ram thier VW microbus into a crowd of good hard working REAL patriots comming out of the airport after picking up thier checks from the offshore account they don't pay taxes on. Better take the cars too.

In fact, let's just make everyone stay home all the time, bus them to the jobsite (and if one of them dies there, it's okay, because if it's for the good of the rich, it's just dandy) and then bring them home and feed them painkillers and beer and pipe fox news onto thier TVs for a nice round of indoctrination...

I want you to smile real nice and think of all the dirty poor people that you get to help kill when you vote straight Republican again.

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[dangitman]

In times of crisis, when an organization assumes control, its control is total. It controls the food, clothing, shelter, water, information, and whatnot.

Long live fascism!

Re:Public Safety Bah!

[dangitman]

But they want CONTROL which means their motives are suspect. They have an agenda just like everyone else, you just don't want to believe it.

What The Fuck? When did the radio station ever ask to take control of emergency management from FEMA? This has nothing to do with CONTROL, as you put it. They just want to broadcast information to help survivors. They have not requested any kind of control over operations.

What the hell is your agenda for spouting these lies?

Re:black people

[russianspy]

Quite honestly I think that's a nice steaming pile of bull.

George W. Bush does not care about the color of your skin, only the amount in your wallet.

Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

Or a newspaper, or a volunteer AM station, or a loudspeaker.

It sounds like these people were hell-bent on starring in their own FM radio DJ fantasy and were not open to other flexible ideas.

I'm also QUITE SURE that FEMA and the Military did not want one voice of resistance telling the people in the dome anything that would be off-message. Why allow some conduit for politics or whatever? It would just add chaos.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[Dhaos]

I'm also QUITE SURE that FEMA and the Military did not want one voice of resistance telling the people in the dome anything that would be off-message. Why allow some conduit for politics or whatever? It would just add chaos.

Whoa whoa...whoa!

The military and FEMA should have NO business telling people what to say over the radio in Houston. New Orleans may be a disaster area and under de facto martial law, but the military telling you what you can and cannot do elsewhere is a troubling idea.

IF the station was used to incite the mob, we have laws to deal with that. It's unfair and shameful to assume that the first thing these people would do with their radio station- AM or FM- would be to go 'off message' and 'add to the chaos'. Those people NEED a community now, and to deny it to them is unfair!

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[kfg]

. . .were not open to other flexible ideas.

Like a dedicated radio station instead of blaring loudspeakers.

Methinks you have the shoe on the wrong foot.

. . .telling the people in the dome anything that would be off-message. Why allow some conduit for politics or whatever?

Yep, I was right.

KFG

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

You totally mis-characterized that statement.

Any radio station in Houston can say whatever it wants. But you cannot set up some freelance operation at ground zero of a military relief operation.

No one elected this radio station crew. In times of crisis we defer control to the officials we have put in place. If you don't like the way they are running it, you can elect new officials.

But you cannot do these "on the fly" experiments in the middle of the crisis. The playbook has to be followed.

Hey, otherwise, how about setting up a Puppet Show? How about setting up a TV station also? The TV station could play re-runs of Three's Company which would help everyone out and releive stress!

DUH!

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

This is not "MTV Spring Break" inside the dome dude.

This in not about you pleasuring yourself.

This is an operation... and all the variables inside the dome are carefully controlled by the people conducting the operation.

If you cannot understand this, there is nothing I can do for you.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh, chaos? I fail to see how a low-power FM transmission can somehow magically lead to chaos. What is really go on here, and you admit but it but fail to underline it, is that the Federal government does not want any other message to reach the people. It goes along with the media blackout being orchestrated in New Orleans right now.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

Let me underline it for you then.

We elected the Federal government and its policies.

The people running this radio station are unelected and could potentially introduce an UNKNOWN or UNCONTROLLED element into an already chaotic situation.

This is not helpful in times of crisis.

If a low-power station is needed so desperately, THE ELECTED CONTROLLING AGENCY is free to set one up at any time.

UNELECTED FREELANCERS wanting to set up radio, a Puppet Show, a TV station, a Broadway Musical, or inspirational Irish Dancing, cannot be allowed to come willy nilly and interrupt such an operation.

Deal with it...

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[shitdrummer]

I'm also QUITE SURE that FEMA and the Military did not want one voice of resistance telling the people in the dome anything that would be off-message

What, like how to enrol your kids at school? How to apply for aid? What's happening to their homes etc? Or maybe the officials are worried that the people will find out that the leaders of their nation let them down at their most desperate time of need?

Can't have anyone questioning the nations leadership. Everyone repeat after me, "The leader is good, the leader is great, the leader is good, the leader is great."

Shitdrummer

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[Moofie]

I didn't vote for this administration, and I feel no obligation whatsoever to be silent when they are, again, going on a power trip at the expense of essential liberties.

Your "THE ELECTED CONTROLLING AGENCY" has made a clusterfuck of this at every level. The "UNELECTED FREELANCERS" are the only ones doing anything that actually winds up making people not die.

They "cannot be allowed to come willy nilly and interrupt such an operation" because if they were to do so, people might start noticing that the "operation" has been a charlie foxtrot from 24 hours in advance of the hurricane.

Guess what: The cat's out of the bag.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess what jackass there is no "playbook" for this type of crisis.

No one needs to be "elected" to do this.

And the people we have "defered control" to have not even lifted ****in' finger in even teh most simplistic forms of support

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[Halvy]

Fortunately when it 'all-comes-down'.. we won't have to "DEAL WITH" people like you, because the first type of people the U.S. government will kill, are the spineless, parroting, arse-kissers 'like you'.

Everyone else, they fear. :)

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[dangitman]

Why allow some conduit for politics or whatever? It would just add chaos.

Are you fucking insane, or do you just not understand what politics is?

Yeah, we should totally disempower the refugees from New Orleans. They aren't allowed to have political discussion. That just creates problems. We should just be Nazis and tell them what to do and think. Too much room for dissent if we allow them some political freedom.

I doubt you would understand, but having someone from the outside try to shut down political discussion in a disaster, is more likely to lead to unrest. Politics enables people to express their rage, sorrow and frustration. Preventing a group of starving, angry people from expressing themselves, is only going to escalate into violence.

Do you really want more violence erupting in order to inflict your Politically Correct views onto suffering people?

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[dangitman]

This is an operation... and all the variables inside the dome are carefully controlled by the people conducting the operation.

So, if this is true, then that would make "the people conducting the operation" sadistic murderers, right?

Because if anyone had total control over all the variables in the Dome, then why would they allow people to suffer needlessly like this? Is this some kind of Nazi experiment on people "inside the dome" by people on the outside who are controlling "all the variables"?

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

Except that it doesn't seem to be escalating any violence by shuttering this attempted radio station.

The military and other officials have the people quite well under control... so your conclusion is false.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[dangitman]

Except that it doesn't seem to be escalating any violence by shuttering this attempted radio station.

Firstly, how do you know? How many people might be better off if there had been radio services?

The military and other officials have the people quite well under control... so your conclusion is false.

This doesn't make any sense. Firstly, I made no "conclusion." Secondly, your comment has nothing to do with my comment. Having people "under control" is not necessarily a good thing. The wellbeing of people is important. people are probably suffering under "military control" - where they might be much better off with "community support" instead.

The facts are that you don't know how much the radio station could have helped people. You don't know what it's like to be under military control, either.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

I know right now the people are playing fooseball in the astrodome and don't really give a shit about your crappy radio station.. end of story.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

Your a cracksmoker dude! You demonize the people running the dome and helping the survivors.

No one is dying in the fucking astrodome. Things are orderly. You're liberalism is raging out of control man...

Get a grip! The radio station was just not needed... are you really *that* emotionally invested in the fucking radio station?

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

Of course there is, FEMA has a playbook for everything up to and including nuclear war.

And yes, you do have to be elected to do this... sorry, its called "rule of law".

Your vision of anarchists coming together randomly to restore structure and order is confusing at best.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[RentonSentinel]

Strawman! Nice touch... actually, all of the families in the astro dome are getting kids enrolled in school and having aid applications. You think they are just sleeping and listening to the radio? No. Look at Houston schools filling up as we speak. This is exclusively from the astrodome and nobody there is "confused" about how to do that.

I think you need to actually check with reality. Every single person in that dome is getting aid without the help of that crappy radio station. You have not demonstrated otherwise...

And excuse me. If your house catches on fire, if you think George Bush is going to swing down on air force 1 and throw a rope to you, you are freaking nuts.

Fact is, military is the only thing that saved most of these people after their city did not evactuate them and their state government collapsed.

Your obsession with Bush is like that of a stalker.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[dangitman]

No one is dying in the fucking astrodome. Things are orderly. You're liberalism is raging out of control.

So, if everything is orderly, what's wrong with them having a radio station? You were the one saying they needed to be controlled. What the hell does this have to do with liberalism?

Get a grip! The radio station was just not needed... are you really *that* emotionally invested in the fucking radio station?

No, I'm not. I'm just curious as to why you feel that the survivors need to be "controlled" and deprived of media,

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[DavidTC]

You moron. What, exactly, is the difference, between operating a CD radio station and an FM radio station?

There's only two:

For FM, you need a license. Which they have.

For CB, you need more expensive equipment to receive it.

I won't even touch the 'am' thing, where the only difference is that for a low-power AM station you don't need a licence, because, like I said, they have a license.

Re:Sheesh, just get a CB...

[Dhaos]

You can't elect new officials in times of crisis. You can try, but they usually refer to things like that as 'rebellion.' Nevermind the fact that noone in New Orleans elected any of the officials now running their lives...

Yea, I agree with you, the military should be allowed to do their job. But I still say that building a community is important for these people who have just lost everything. And to be honest the whole situation sounds like Sour Grapes- it makes -sense- to deliver information by radio, but since none of the officials thought it up, they deny the whole effort.

Incidentally, what exactly would be wrong with a Puppet Show? Why shouldn't the people inside the dome be allowed to communicate with each other as they wish? And shit, if they happen to have their DVD sets of Three's Company and can get the TVs distributed to the people, what would be wrong with setting that up too? Of course, its a straw man argument, because thats not what these people were putting together.

You've got some good points, but the whole thing still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It just seems like the people in charge are trying to cut down the flow of information to include only information they like. Which is stupid, becuase people can still talk.

I just wish the people in charge would leverage useful resources, (a joint effort radio station run by officials, volunteers, and evacuees -would- be useful) and not, like some self-important school principal, deny things that do not suit their own immediate needs.

This damage control isn't for you.

[RyanFenton]

The first priority of damage control for the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is not to save lives. It's to mask blame. Not that there isn't blame to go around - but the talking points going around are built to make all blame seem equal. To make it seem like any one of the politicians involved in this disaster had the same ability to help save people, and Republican politicians who did not help did nothing wrong compared to everyone else.

Having a radio stations where people affected could speak their minds openly, or even potentially openly would hurt this damage control.

Ryan Fenton

Re:This damage control isn't for you.

[Thing 1]

Having a radio stations where people affected could speak their minds openly, or even potentially openly would hurt this damage control.

Agreed. But, aren't they kinda shooting themselves in the foot, by letting their management of the news become news?

Re:This damage control isn't for you.

[joey_knisch]

FEMA needs to understand that picking up the dead bodies is a better response then preventing the media from shooting them. Censorship to prevent embarrassment only hurts the victims.

WOW (Sarcstic)

[Karaman]

Communists used to ban BBC in our country that way :) I guess the history is repeating itself in different context :)

Re:WOW (Sarcstic)

[wintermute740]

"Communists used to ban BBC in our country that way :) I guess the history is repeating itself in different context :) "

I hearby announce that all "In Soviet Russia" jokes shall become "In Soviet America" jokes instead. Violaters will be violated.

Re:WOW (Sarcstic)

[xander2032]

Where exactly will these violations occur? Can I be violated in Soviet Russia by a hot Russian chick named Olga?? Can I??? Can I?? Pleaseeeeeee!!!!

The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[CyricZ]

The harm is that some people who were directly affected by this disaster might exercise their freedom of speech and freedom of expression. They might question why their federal government failed them so badly in so many different ways. And a lot of people may hear such objections and questions. That won't bode well for the administrators who are blocking the survivors' most basic freedoms.

Re:The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[jcr]

They might question why their federal government failed them so badly in so many different ways.

Let's not forget the apalling incompetence of the state and local governments while we're at it. 500 busses, fueled and under water. No food or water stockpiled, no medical supplies, or doctors at the superdome. Way to go, Mr. Mayor.

I do hope that the people in the Astrodome are free to leave. They are in great danger of being turned into some bureaucrat's meal ticket for years to come.

-jcr

Re:The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[MightyMartian]

I'm an equal opportunity condemner. Here's the lesson, American taxpayers are getting ripped off by greedy, incompetent political hacks at every level from the guys that run cities right up to the buffoon who sits in Washington DC by the grace of massive political contributions. The US has been swindled by liars, morons and self-congratulatory recipients of every low kind of favoritism. Your governments don't give a damn about you until they realize that the jig is up and they've been caught behaving in a fashion that has lefts tens of thousands to an enormous calamity.

Of course you can all do what I expect you to do, get mad until someone finds some way to divert your attention with a wardrobe malfunction or some new reality TV show. Forget about the suffering that vile, ignorant, self-serving, morally repugnant twits in power have conceived as the just rewards for your hard-earned money and your all-too-easily gained acceptance. Tune out their collosal failure, their undeniable incapacity to perform that most basic function of government, that ultimately sole reason for a government's existence; to keep the citizens safe and to aid in their times of crisis.

You paid for a government obsessed with no-fly lists, with battles over brain dead women, with abortions, with homosexuals, with funnelling public money into churches, with handing off plumb positions to close friends, with getting blow jobs on taxpayer time, with redirecting funds to aid in their and their friends' re-elections. You can decide right now whether you are going to punish these villains, or reward them by changing the channel and not showing up at the next election, even if it's for the guys that are going to pass zoning bylaws.

Re:The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[Anonymous Coward]

>I do hope that the people in the Astrodome are free to leave.

Of course they can leave -- they're not in jail. They're not there because the authorities are keeping them there. They have no other place to go.

Re:The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[Greyfox]

Yup. From the incompetant local authorities who didn't say "Gee, there's a category 4 hurricane bearing down on us and we can only withstand a category 3 hurricane, maybe we should use every available resource to evacuate the city" to the incompetant Bush-appointed cronies with no experience in disaster management, the mismanagement of this disaster has been astounding.

Quite frankly I'd like to see a televised seppku on the part of all officials involved once this thing has been sorted (Or before that if they're still gumming up the process.) Nothing else would be able to absolve them of the shame and dishonor that they've brought to their offices. Their bungling has brought the death of thousands of people who didn't need to die. The very least they could do is to take their own lives in the formal way of the Samurai as pennance for their extreme uselessness.

Re:The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Let's not forget the apalling incompetence of the state and local governments while we're at it. 500 busses, fueled and under water.

Interesting. Last time I saw this stategy, said busses were driven by National Guardsmen......

Re:The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[DavidTC]

Damn. That's it!

I'm no longer calling for the resignation of the current administration.

I now am calling for the ritual suicide of the administration.

Seriously, people, start spreading this idea. Call the radio stations, write the papers. Demand the administration commit suicide to atone for this.

They won't, of course, but maybe some of the outrage we feel will start getting through to some of the corporate cronies ruining the government.

Re:The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[Greyfox]

Yes! My regime would institute Samurai honor code for corporate upper management and public officials! Ethics and a sense of honor is something that is missing from those spots right now, and it leads to the sort of cronyism and profiteering that we've seen in the past few years. That wouldn't go on if your honor demanded that you kill yourself if something like this happened on your watch!

I should really put together a few pages with the policies my regime would institute. I'm sure that in these increasingly cynical times, a benevolent dictatorship of the sort I'd run would be a breath of fresh air. And I plan to be quite liberal with my cabinet appointments, for those who want to get in on the revolution early... ;-)

Re:The politically-unfriendly truth will be told.

[DavidTC]

Ah, I have an idea for you, then.

I call them 'death counters'.

Anyone can pick anyone else and say 'I kill myself to rid us of that person' and commit suicide. Only one person can do this to any specific person a day, to keep tempers down.

A tally is kept that only that person, and a dedicated government branch, has access to. (Although, of course, if people publically announce they're killing themselves for that reason, others will know.)

When the tally reached 100 people, they are killed. A man shows up with a gun and vial, and you drink the vial or you're shot.

The theory: If 100 people are willing to die to rid the world of you, (And with no assurance, at the start, that others will follow their lead.) you deserve to be removed from the world.

Instead of fixing it at 100, you might want to make it 'one millionth of the adult population' or something. Which I think is like 175 right now in the US.

It's also possible the number should be closer to 1000 than 100, I dunno. Probably want to start too high, and then lower it if it's not working.

Why?

[Red Flayer]

"On Thursday, Obey explained the decision to ultimately refuse the low-power FM station request.

'With limited resources, you err on the side of FEMA and the Red Cross over entertainment.' "

First, the station was going to be providing more than entertainment.

Second, who from the Red Cross opposed to the station? Why?

Third, who from FEMA opposed the station? Why?

If it cost FEMA and the Red Cross nothing, they have no reson to oppose. If either believes it will cost them something, I'd like to hear it explained.

My guess is, they are worried that unhappy people can be incited to riot.

Re:Why?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

You forget one possibility: what if the situation this station would describe, the straight dope gathered right where shit happens down there, emphasizes Washington's ineptitude faced with this crisis even more?

A bit of "unexpected" red tape to force the new radio station to shut the hell up, at least temporarily, might be very welcome by the administration and the FEMA...

Re:Why?

[shitdrummer]

FEMA are planning to set up their own radio station to service these people. Based on recent FEMA performance it's scheduled to go live some time around 2025.

"We have bought the rights to all of Michael Bolton's music so we can play it all we want without having to pay royalties. Michael is such an inspiration entertainer. Much more wholesome than those dirty black rappers." A FEMA spokesman recently claimed.

Shitdrummer

Re:Why?

[shitdrummer]

Troll?!?!?

Man, moderators seem to have lost their sense of humour. Perhaps FEMA staff have all the mod points at the moment. Or maybe Michael Bolton's fan does.

Shitdrummer.

Re:Why?

[DavidTC]

The Red Cross isn't opposed at all. The Red Cross couldn't give a flying fuck about radio waves.

And I somewhat doubt FEMA has much to do with this. Maybe some local FEMA asshat, though, you never know.

This is solely because the locals in control want to remain in control.

Re:Why?

[Red Flayer]

I nevered doubted the motivation of the govt to shut down possibly dissenting points-of-view...

But I want accountablility: names, etc.

Re:Insightful!

[RentonSentinel]

Of course, either the military / fema is in control or they are not...

If you don't want FEMA running the whole show, then put someone else in charge. But don't be surprised when they lay the smack down on people trying to steal the spotlight.

Again, if FEMA lacks radio capability, then they suck, but it doesn't mean some free-wheeling group of hippies can set up a resistance station in the dome either.

How about a puppet show!!

[RentonSentinel]

Hey, how about a 24/7 PUPPET SHOW taking place in the center of the Dome.

It would be totally free, and not get in the way, and provide valuable information and "stress relief".

And it would be put on by black people, so if you are against my puppet show idea, you are racist! LOL

go back to sucking GWB

[cheekyboy]

So how efficient is the lighting at the dome? using 5000000 watts?

These guys arent asking for power to use 1000 laptops.

The smegs in charge want to do it their way so they can up their career, and not be upshowed by some amatures.

Typeical govt workers, corrupt to hell.

Re:go back to sucking GWB

[geekoid]

"Typeical govt workers, corrupt to hell."

fuck you.

I have never seen any goverment employee* do anything corrupt, not once.

as a government emplioyee I must repeat:
Fuck you.

*as opposed to elected official.

Re:go back to sucking GWB

[HungWeiLo]

I've worked in organizations big and small, both public and private sectors, and there is no difference in inefficiencies or corruption.

In fact, my fiancee's 3 coworkers (normal bankers) at a bank just racked up $150 in a bar tab for "business expenses" and that's after they booked a client meeting next week at the Bellagio. I don't think typical government employees get away with doing stuff like that for very long.

Re:go back to sucking GWB

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't Mail men occasionally get caught stealing mail?

Re:go back to sucking GWB

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you get a real job and stop being a parasite? It's the only moral choice. Nobody is going to respect you until you abandon your parasitcal way of life by leaving the employ of the state.

Re:go back to sucking GWB

[Anonymous Coward]

I will trade you a free mac mini for coordinates of the commanders trailer in LSA Anaconda.

Allah Akbar!

Re:go back to sucking GWB

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe the correct phrasing is "Go fuck yourself."

Also, if you do not like someone's opinion, you can say "That guy's a real asshole!" ...and the typical friendly second to this is "Big time."

And the correct way to salute people not affilated with your political faction is the Jersy Finger salute, AKA The One Finger Victory Salute.

"Fuck you." is typically reserved as the default answer to a direct question.

Re:go back to sucking GWB

[Moofie]

Knowingly working for a corrupt organization is a corrupt act.

Put itin a van

[wiredlogic]

Why do they have to be stationed in the Astrodome? I'm sure the authorities in charge don't want to be responsible for the cable runs out to their tower.

They can just put their equipment into a van and broadcast from the parking lot like regular pirate radio. They can still do interviews within the dome using portable radios and cell phones.

Re:Put itin a van

[Punboy]

Dunno if you noticed, but they're trying NOT to be a pirate organization. They're attempting to get it all done legally. So please don't make statements that could people to believe they are "pirate radio"

Re:Put itin a van

[Guppy06]

" Why do they have to be stationed in the Astrodome? "

Because the way they got this place locked down, the only way to get information on what's going on inside of it in a timely manner is to actually be in there.

why not set up outside the dome?

[codemangler]

Couldn't they operate the station from a van legally parked outside the Astrodome? If they did that, FEMA would have a hard time shutting them down (but I'm sure they'd try).

Re:why not set up outside the dome?

[Jim_Callahan]

Unless they were broadcasting "let's rise up and kill all of teh bureaucrats, and burn down any remaining structures with their owners locked inside" i doubt FEMA would care much. This seemed more of a "we're not going to waste any more resources on you, we have people to feed, bugger off" deal than a "you're a dangerous man that needs to be silenced" deal. Refusal to provide resources is not the same thing as actively inhibiting a project.

Re:why not set up outside the dome?

[Darby]

Unless they were broadcasting "let's rise up and kill all of teh bureaucrats, and burn down any remaining structures with their owners locked inside" i doubt FEMA would care much.

I don't think they'd even notice unless people started burning stables with the horses still inside.

Re:why not set up outside the dome?

[Halvy]

Unless they were broadcasting "let's rise up and kill all of teh bureaucrats, and burn down any remaining structures with their owners locked inside" i doubt FEMA would care much.

Actually this is the one & ONLY thing that would get the 'officials' attention.

And not only their attention, but with a couple of small bands of vigilante groups to 'back-up' what they preach,.. you better believe service would improve just by the fact that there was a removal of these handful of 'scum authorities'.

Then not only would everyone get their little radios, but more information would start to flow in the form of pictures and InterNet blogs, which 'The People' would have now from 'confiscating' from the afformentioned previous 'scum-authorities' computers, cameras, etc. ;)

"We are still in hurricane season,"

[Slashdot_Gandhi]

"Browny, you're doing a heck of a job,"

Expect to see more of this crap

Re:"We are still in hurricane season,"

[SpaceLifeForm]

Not anymore. The bush administration spun and spun, but the political pressure got to them, and they had to move him out of the way.

Google news

Re:"We are still in hurricane season,"

[Darby]

The bush administration spun and spun, but the political pressure got to them, and they had to move him out of the way.

Sure, but do you think he'll get a large cash prize to go with his medal?

I mean this administration is known for going out of its way to reward incompetence.

Re:"We are still in hurricane season,"

[EnderWiggnz]

what the fuck does it take to get fired in this administration?

i mean really... do you have to eat a live baby on the whitehouse lawn?

Re:"We are still in hurricane season,"

[NateTech]

Nah, they just up the terror level if they see any of their own doing that, and the panic and distraction keep the Press from noticing...

Re:"We are still in hurricane season,"

[kylemonger]

what the fuck does it take to get fired in this administration?

Expressing disagreement with the notion that the solution to all the nation's problems is tax cuts for the wealthy. Ask ex-Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill.

Because no one has a CB set

[Anonymous Coward]

and because newspapers take a long time to print and distribute, and what makes you tyhink the officials would allow an AM station if they aren't allowing an fm one, Do you serioudly think that a loudspeaker that is cabpable of reaching everybody desired is feasible?

Of course it was so no-one could go "off-message."

Why allow some conduit for politics or whatever? It would just add chaos.

Do you work for the administration or what? You speak as if the "message" the federal government puts out is devoid of politics.

Re:Because no one has a CB set

[RentonSentinel]

Hahahaha!

Of course, it was to control.

We put our elected officials in control. We give them control with their machine guns to keep out the hippie circuses.

If the military needs to disseminate information, IT INVENTED THE INTERNET for god's sake. They can invent a radio station if one is needed.

They are the ones elected to handle the crisis. Not your hippie circus or indie radio station.

Re:Because no one has a CB set

[Anonymous Coward]

Did I ever say that this radio station deserved the right to broadcast in this instance? no.

I was simply attacking your idiotic quips.

Keep drinking that kool aid buddy. I'm sure the government always has your best interests in mind.

Re:Because no one has a CB set

[RentonSentinel]

Not saying they do!

I'm just saying that crying these crockodile tears for the radio station that never was is a pathetic waste of slashdot time and energy.

Re:Because no one has a CB set

[dangitman]

I'm just saying that crying these crockodile tears for the radio station that never was is a pathetic waste of slashdot time and energy.

A waste of "slashdot" time and energy? What the fuck does that mean? Are you saying that Slashdot should not discuss issues relevant to human beings trying to survive? You know, "News that matters"?

I think you just don't care about the survivors, and want to use any opportunity to push your partisan political bullshit. Considering the amount of trivial nonsense Slashdot wastes its time on, I don't think that trying to provide communications for suffering victims is a "pathetic waste" of time.

Re:Because no one has a CB set

[RentonSentinel]

If slashdot wants to help, they should stop crying about the fucking radio station and set up a Hurrican Survivor section on the board to post for people in the dome and give them special access.

Now *pleez* shut the fuck up...

Re:Because no one has a CB set

[DavidTC]

You dumbass, the people in the dome don't have access to computers.

They could, however, trivially walk up to a radio station that was broadcasting inside and 'post' announcements.

Do it anyway?

[chill]

How about just having volunteers walk in and hand out all the radios, then set up OUTSIDE the Astrodome and use a directional antenna.

Tell the JIC to go fuck off and broadcast anyway.

  -Charles

Exactly!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

But, to go one step further...

If the "KAMP" operators were truly interested in setting up their station, they could do so in the parking lot or an adjacent building and their signal could still be received inside the dome.

The fact is that they are wanting total access to the dome as well as a whole lot more. They have permission to use the airwaves, FEMA/Astrodome has no jurisdiction over the airwaves, but they want real estate and that isn't available.

But, fear not! I'm sure that the Slashdot hoards won't stop that from making them foam at the mouth and bitch about government supression just like they did about the "FEMA Web Browser Massacre" that had them so up-in-arms yesterday.

Re:Exactly!!!!

[DavidTC]

They are trying to set up in the dome so they can provide relevant information about the dome. Like 'empty cots at the west wall' and 'dinner is being served'. Their intent was to relay messages from FEMA and the dome administration, although any sort of 'official' status seems unlikely at this point, but they can still repeat anything announced publicly.

And another important reason is so the people in the dome can talk to them. Either so they can help, via announcements for people, and, hell, so people can walk up and request music.

And they've made repeated proofs they aren't going to use resources. The dome brought up power, they said they'd run it off batteries, the dome brought up people fighting over radios, they provided free radios. If there are any other concerns, the dome would only have to bring them up.

My thoughts exactly.

[Vellmont]

If you lose control over information, you could lose control over the mass of people. I'm sure what they're worried about is the radio station broadcasting anything that's no in line with the message that the officials want heard. It's sad to imagine that our government has become more like China in this whole matter, caring more about saving face, and keeping the serfs in line than actually providing assistance.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's sad to imagine that our government has become more like China in this whole matter, caring more about saving face, and keeping the serfs in line than actually providing assistance.

Keep up that sort of talk, and you'll find yourself on the wrong end of that revolver in your .sig.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[Darby]

it's sad to imagine that...

Keep up that sort of talk, and you'll find yourself on the wrong end of that revolver in your .sig.

Wow, it's come to the point where being saddened by a thought makes one an activist?!?
WTF

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[dangitman]

Wow, it's come to the point where being saddened by a thought makes one an activist?!? WTF

Absolutely. Except I'm not sure what you mean about "it's come to the point" - because it's always been this way.

Sad about black people in slavery? You're a civil rights activist who deserves to be shot or lynched. Shed a tear over the destruction of the environment? Then you are an environmental terrorist.

The word "activist" is nothing but a propaganda smokescreen used to demonize those who care. So, yes, I do find it disturbing when someone seeks their revolver whenever they hear of someone who is passionate about their beliefs, and uses the label "activist" to justify their violent intent.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably figured that since IndyMedia and Pacifica were involved it would be nothing but a steady stream of left wing propaganda for inciting riots.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[Vellmont]

Settle down Beavis. The word "activist" is indeed a political bullcrap used by mostly fanatics to describe themselves or by people who which to demonize "the other side". See "Activist judges".

"Reach for my revolver" is a reference to German playwright Hanns Johst's play Schlageter, which has in it the (translated) phrase "Whenever I hear the word culture... I release the safety-catch of my Browning!" The last part is more often translated as "I reach for my revolver." Often the quote is attributed to Hermann Goring, though Johst is the true source.

The point is that much like high culture, "activism" has taken on this unquestionable nobleness instead of just being politics as usual. (Either that or a demonic evil). I don't have a problem with people being passionate about their beliefs, only fanatical about them. Activists, and the word activist in general I associate with people who are singularly (and often myopically) focused on one goal. I find that to be a terrible world view which doesn't lead to finding any truth. So, when I hear someone speak of activism or activists I generally expect some bullshit to follow. Hence the revolver reaching (though in truth I don't own a gun nor ever have).

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[LionKimbro]

Activists, and the word activist in general I associate with people who are singularly (and often myopically) focused on one goal.

I think it's- There are many things wrong with the world, but you can't substantially work to solve them all. So, we pick one, and go with that.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[Vellmont]

The problem isn't so much the singular focus, it's the lack of seeing things in context, and magnitude. Many of the clean water people are obsessed about "saving" every last gallon of water from being dirty. I used to know someone who would turn on the super-water-saver mode of the dishwasher, despite the fact that the dishes wouldn't get clean and would later have to re-done by someone else. (ignoring the dishwashers don't really use that much water to begin with).

Where singular focus becomes a problem is seeing your problem in relation to other problems. If all you value is "saving' water, your solutions often wind up causing more harm than good.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[DavidTC]

A lot of 'enviromentalism' that people do on their own is complete and utter bullshit.

Saving water is one of these things unless you live in the desert. Someone once told me I should cut the water off while brushing my teeth. I laughed and pointed out I had well water and a septic tank. Water in becomes water out in a few months, and the only waste is the power to run the pump. I promised from now on to brush my teeth with the lights off.

Recycling paper is another one of those things. No paper recycling is even vaguely useful. Paper companies plant trees and pulp them, and it wastes less energy than shipping back the paper to the plant, where it also needs pulping. And, of course, burying paper underground reduces the amount of CO2 in the air.

Or people recycling glass, which has to be the stupidist thing to do in existence. Good Lord, we wouldn't want our silicon dioxide to end up buried in landfills, we might run out!

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[DavidTC]

Water in becomes water out in a few months...

Because I have astonishing bladder control.

Either that, or I said that backwards.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[Vellmont]

Or people recycling glass, which has to be the stupidist thing to do in existence. Good Lord, we wouldn't want our silicon dioxide to end up buried in landfills, we might run out!

The point in recycling glass is the energy saved when you have to make new glass. Old glass can be heated and melted to a lower temperature than it takes to make new glass.

The other kind of glass recycling (before we called it recycling) is just plain old re-use. The problem is that most states don't have deposits on beer bottles, so they all get tossed.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[DavidTC]

The theory is that glass can be melted at lower temperature, saving energy.

In actual fact, a lot of the recycled glass goes the same process as new glass.

In addition, talking saving a certain amount of energy is crazy when the energy required to get the glass isn't factored in. (This is a problem with most recycling.)

If recycling saved energy, companies would be paying for stuff to recycle. You can use this rule to figure out what is worthwhile to recycle:

Pop tabs.

Yup, that's about it. The tabs on soda cans are worth recycling.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[Vellmont]

The theory is that glass can be melted at lower temperature, saving energy.

And that theory is correct. You make it sound as if there's something incorrect about this by calling it a theory.

In actual fact, a lot of the recycled glass goes the same process as new glass.

Then you should be in favor of giving companies incentives for saving the energy they'd waste instead of just being against recycling glass entirely. Or be in favor of deposits on more bottles since that would save even more energy.

In addition, talking saving a certain amount of energy is crazy when the energy required to get the glass isn't factored in. (This is a problem with most recycling.)

I haven't added up the numbers, but I doubt you spend all the energy saved in transportation.

Pop tabs.
Yup, that's about it. The tabs on soda cans are worth recycling.

I know for a fact that you're 100% wrong about this. Cities make money on aluminum recycling, and it's not just the tabs. Minneapolis has gone so far that they're trying to catch people "stealing" the aluminum cans from other peoples recycling bins. Aluminum takes a HUGE amount of energy to seperate it from oxygen. That's why Aluminum is the best candidate for recycling.

If you want the stupidest thing we recycle, that's plastic. It costs a ton to recycle the stuff, and the use of it is very limited. Plastic doesn't really pollute, so it'd be wiser to just throw out the plastic and concentrate on collecting things that actually DO pollute, like lead batteries, old paint, household chemicals, etc.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[DavidTC]

Yes, I know the rest of the can can be recycled. I don't actually have any problem with programs recycling aluminum, that's one of the things that could actually make sense, as opposed to glass, paper, or plastic, one of which is as common as dirt, one of which grows on trees, and one of which usually uses more oil than it saves.

However, it still does not make enough to pay for itself. In various places, the recycling has been propped up with government subsidies or even just the law. If it was cost efficient, aluminum manufacturers would have deposits on cans everywhere. They'd be trying their best to get new cans.

Here's a hint: If recycling involves the city picking up cans for free and turning them over for no money, than it is not cost efficient to recycle. Cities do not have to operate transport services for things that make money.

I don't worry too much. I figure if we run out of aluminum, we'll start mining landfills. Or we could just put taxes on using aluminum the first time.

As for recycling glass, worrying about it is one of the silliest things ever. We could direct the entire economy of the country to digging landfills and making glass solely to throw in there, and we could keep doing that for millennia. We will not run out of dirt to make into glass, and we will not run out of landfill space, despite what people seem to think.

And the best judge of what costs what are the people who have to pay it. Seriously. If it's energy efficient to recycle something, than it should cost less. (If it doesn't, we need to fix that.) If it costs less, companies should be leaping after it.

And, yes, the things we need to be caring about are the toxic things people throw away that can be recycled or referbished. Unlike entirely safe things to put in landfills, those cannot either be efficient to be recycle or ignored. We need to recycle those anyway.

But let's spend all our time and money recycling paper. I'm sure that's incredibly useful.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[Vellmont]

However, it still does not make enough to pay for itself. In various places, the recycling has been propped up with government subsidies or even just the law.


And again, you're 100% wrong about this. Why, if aluminum doesn't make money would a city try to stop people from "stealing" aluminum cans from recycling bins? Why is there a ton of people that collect aluminum cans that then sell them? Because of course aluminum recycling is profitable. It doesn't make enough money to pay for the rest of the recycling collection, but it's still profitable.

If it was cost efficient, aluminum manufacturers would have deposits on cans everywhere. They'd be trying their best to get new cans.

You obviously can't re-use the cans because they're easily crushed, the top gets broken when you open it, etc. To a manufacturer aluminum is aluminum. There's no advantage to getting the cans back over getting new aluminum. The impetus for aluminum recycling is on indivuduals who collect cans since aluminum. Prices for recycled aluminum cans are about .35 per pound.

Re:My thoughts exactly.

[DavidTC]

Prices for recycled aluminum cans are about .35 per pound.

I think that right there proved my entire point.

The average weight of an aluminum can is half a ounce. That means 32-33 of them are in a pound. Let's say a person can only carry, oh, 200 cans at once, as they are rather unweildy.

That's 4 pounds. Or one dollar and forty cents worth of cans.

Let's assume that each person in the US lives within walking distance of an aluminum recycling plant, where they pay 35 cents at the door per pound.

How close would this plant have to be to make recycling the cans pay no less than minimum wage? A round trip, at minimum wage, of $1.40 is about 16minutes, or 8 minutes each way.

At reasonable walking speed, that's about 3/4th a mile.

Now, of course, they could crush the cans, and maybe carry twice as much, the weight is trivial. Sadly, crushing 400 cans, even if you can do one a second, would take six and half minutes, so you'd only slightly come out ahead. If it takes any longer than one second, you'll probably come out behind.

Now, you could obviously drive, and with gas prices at about 10 cents a mile in any reasonable car, means you could go 13 miles roundtrip...assuming you can do it instantly. But let's assume 60 mph, and a wasted minute getting in your car and dropping the stuff offand coming home, you could get three miles, spending three minutes, each way, and come out ahead.

Ah, but you could put more in your car. Well, let's just look at it this way:

You get paid, in scrap price, one cent per can. That is approx. 11 seconds at minimum wage. Gasoline is approx. 1 cents per tenth of a mile. If you average more time or more mileage per can, recycling cans is not efficient.

No, seriously, .35 cents a pound is a *horrible* price for metal you collect in half ounce intervals. Economically it makes no sense.P. It does, however, make sense for the homeless, but that is only because they do not work for minimum wage.

Re:Insightful!

[Anonymous Coward]

Again, if FEMA lacks radio capability, then they suck, but it doesn't mean some free-wheeling group of hippies can set up a resistance station in the dome either

That's probably it. They don't want riots or people fighting about their radios being too loud or on the wrong station. And they also probably don't have enough law enforcement to patrol to make sure everything remains calm.

I love free speech like everyone else, but when you have a large group of people in a confined area like the astrodome, you have more of a mob than civilian habitat.

No, that's incorrect

[Anonymous Coward]

The real point is that the Astrodome does not need a new radio station taking up space, using resources, and wasting management's time.

If there are important things to say that the refugees need to hear over the radio, why not get one of the dozens of existing radio stations in the area to broadcast it. If your message is really that crucial, it shouldn't be a problem finding someone to play it.

This is just a bunch of geeks that got told, "No, your idea won't actually help anyone", so they went and complained to /.

Re:No, that's incorrect

[lspd]

This is just a bunch of geeks that got told, "No, your idea won't actually help anyone", so they went and complained to /.

Exactly

Re:No, that's incorrect

[Vellmont]

If there are important things to say that the refugees need to hear over the radio, why not get one of the dozens of existing radio stations in the area to broadcast it. If your message is really that crucial, it shouldn't be a problem finding someone to play it.

I think you're missing the point of a micro broadcast radio station. Is a local station that serves the needs of the entire Houston area going to broadcast a message like "lunch of the day for the astrodome is cheeseburgers" If you really think that, you're just naive. This isn't about broadcasting ultra-important messages to everyone, it's about keeping people informed about the resources available to them, giving them something to do, etc.

This is just a bunch of geeks that got told, "No, your idea won't actually help anyone", so they went and complained to /.

Very true, but that doesn't diminish the fact that it WILL help people. This isn't some wild crazy techno geek idea of giving out free Wi-Fi internet access to people that don't have laptops or computers in the first place. Radios are dirt cheap, and anyone that has a few dollars can buy a portable one. They're cheap enough that someone could buy a thousand of them and distribute them to everyone in the Astrodome.

Re:No, that's incorrect

[temojen]

They're cheap enough that someone could buy a thousand of them and distribute them to everyone in the Astrodome.

s/could/did/

Re:No, that's incorrect

[Moofie]

"They're cheap enough that someone could buy a thousand of them and distribute them to everyone in the Astrodome."

Actually, they brought 10,000 radios to distribute.

Re:No, that's incorrect

[dubl-u]

They're cheap enough that someone could buy a thousand of them and distribute them to everyone in the Astrodome.

Indeed, they had already arranged a donation of 10,000 radios, so that there would be plenty for all.

Very true, but that doesn't diminish the fact that it WILL help people.

Indeed. A psychiatrist was mentioning somewhere that one of the worst things for people who have been through disasters is to sit around with nothing to do and nothing but the disaster to think about. For people developing PTSD, it can intensify and lengthen their problems.

And there's a lot to be said for community-building and morale. Heck, just the music alone would help. Imagine you're on a long road trip and the radio breaks. How sad would you be? And now imagine somebody else is driving, you don't know where you're going, and you're not sure when you'll get there.

Re:No, that's incorrect

[Vellmont]

Indeed. A psychiatrist was mentioning somewhere that one of the worst things for people who have been through disasters is to sit around with nothing to do and nothing but the disaster to think about. For people developing PTSD, it can intensify and lengthen their problems.


I heard the same thing on NPR. I believe the guy was talking about the relief effort for the sunami. It was in reference to the style of accomodations people were given.

Re:No, that's incorrect

[vanyel]

This is just a bunch of geeks that got told, "No, your idea won't actually help anyone", so they went and complained to /.

There is a big difference between "your idea is useless" and "you can't do it regardless". The former is just opinion, the latter is a lack of freedom, something becoming way too common in this "land of the free".

Re:No, that's incorrect

[Anonymous Coward]

Very true, but that doesn't diminish the fact that it WILL help people. This isn't some wild crazy techno geek idea of giving out free Wi-Fi internet access to people that don't have laptops or computers in the first place. Radios are dirt cheap, and anyone that has a few dollars can buy a portable one. They're cheap enough that someone could buy a thousand of them and distribute them to everyone in the Astrodome.

Actually the Dutch ship that has been accepted by the US to help out not only has the usual water refining, boats, divers and aid, but also a supply of radios to be given out to the public for when a information broadcasting station has been set up. Seems like foreign aid workers already recon radio broadcasts are part of aid supplies. So, it's not an odd idea at all.

Looks like someone got these two confused....

[adamdewolf]

Communications for Survival and Self-Reliance

Pirate Radio Stations: Tuning in to Underground Broadcasts

Not a real issue

[SpaceGhost]

As someone directly involved with this effort (as a member of the Amateur Radio Emergency Service), I can assure my fellow slashdotters that this is simply not an issue, much less worthy of a slashdot story. Although this sounds like a great idea on the surface, I can understand where the JIC or for that matter the Incident Commander would chose to deny this request.
What is not apparent to anyone outside Reliant City (as the astrodomain is now being called) is that it is utter CHAOS in there. It's not that the guests are anything but orderly, that the volunteers are anything but helpful, or that the involved agencies dont care, but there just isnt time for the responsible parties to even think very hard about it. Keep in mind that this is a gargantuan effort on the part of almost everybody involved - every agency I've come in contact with has expressed amazement at the vastness of the task and the speed with which it is being accomplished. And by now they are all pretty much exhausted. Sunday there were 25,000 guests on the ground - today it's far less than half of that. Meeting immediate needs is pretty much all that they can do. I alone have worked over 40 hours on this event since last wednesday, in addition to my regular full-time job.
It would certainly be wonderful if the guests were being entertained, or even efficiently informed. And when I first heard about this effort I thought it was a great idea. But providing a communications channel without professional guidance as to content and application could just as easily cause more harm then good. After the event there will be a great deal of effort to review procedures and decide what went right and what went wrong, and I really hope that this specific option is included in future plans. I think it is awesome that the organizers of this effort did so much, this option has a great deal of potential. But please dont assume that some "lower-level official" just decided to be mean or felt power-hungry - it is just as likley that they thought it was a good idea, but just didnt have the time to give it a chance or make sure it was done right.

Wayne Barker AD8A
Amateur Radio Emergency Service
Emergency Coordinator, SouthWest Harris County, Houston, TX

Re:Not a real issue

[geekoid]

mod +1 "informative", -2 "not what we want to believe cause we all know it's the 'man' keeping the people down".

Re:Not a real issue

[dtobias]

"...providing a communications channel without professional guidance as to content and application could just as easily cause more harm then good..."

Sounds like just the sort of thing the Communist Chinese government says when they censor the Internet, jail dissident journalists, run tanks over protestors, and so on. It's shameful to have anybody in the USA express such a position.

Re:Not a real issue

[Anonymous Coward]

just as this guy thinks it quite "understandable that the Joint Incident Commander would deny such a request" I find it it equally bizarre that he should be *allowed* to deny such a request .. its freedom of speech here, the right to access information. The JIC should be workign FOR the people, not restricting who they can listen to.

Its about time some of these do-gooders and minor officials realised they are there to serve the people, not instruct them.

Re:Not a real issue

[Anonymous Coward]

I alone have worked over 40 hours on this event since last wednesday, in addition to my regular full-time job.

And if the federal government didn't have its head so far up its butt expecting people to rely on poorly organized "faith" based "inititives" you wouldn't have to. The federal government would have spent some fraction of the hundreds of billions that they flushed down the toilet in Iraq on the infrastructure to actual be able to deal with this themselves.

Re:Not a real issue

[Hatta]

And if the federal government didn't have its head so far up its butt expecting people to rely on poorly organized "faith" based "inititives" you wouldn't have to

The federal government is a faith based organization. You give them your money, and have faith that it'll be spent wisely. You cast your vote and have faith that your candidate will speak for you and not big business. This faith is about as well founded as the faith other religions are based on.

Re:Not a real issue

[Anonymous Coward]

You almost had me until I reached "what went right and what went wrong" when I realized you are a government shill spouting, coordinated, administration sanctioned, catch phrases.

Re:Not a real issue

[Anonymous Coward]

This faith is about as well founded as the faith other religions are based on.

Faith in government is founded on agreed upon factual observations of a government's policies and their outcomes.

The purpose of "faith" based "initiatives" is to coerce people to believe things that have no basis in agreed upon factual observations (the "faith" part) and make it difficult for people to obtain humanitarian aid in an organized and standard manner (the "initiative" part). While the "faith" part is disgusting, it is the "initiative" part that really screwed people over in New Orleans.

Re:Not a real issue

[Anonymous Coward]

You should look up the definition of "hyperbole".

Re:Not a real issue

[Halvy]

Everyone would assume someone with your credentials would speak more for the individual(s) affected by this tragedy, rather than for the 'few-individuals' who excert authority over these poor people.

Hopefully the FCC will take note and come down hard on the so called 'authorities' who are constricting this 'legal' station from transmitting near the Dome, and penalize people 'like you' who have contributed to this debacle.

Re:Not a real issue

[evilviper]

It's shameful to have anybody in the USA express such a position.

No, it would be shameful for someone in the USA to be unable to express such a position.

I can't say I completely disagree with him, either. With access to public airwaves comes public responsibilities. Should some half-assed radio station start spewing out false information, with thousands of people listening and believing them, they quite literally could cause a lot of harm. Proverbially shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre.

I have no idea if that is the case here, but discounting his argument because something similar has been used by bad people for bad things is pretty ridiculous.

Re:Not a real issue

[Trogre]

No, it would be shameful for someone in the USA to be unable to express such a position.

sooo... you're saying you support oppression of opinions that are against opressing people?

When does it stop?

Re:Not a real issue

[dr.badass]

This faith is about as well founded as the faith other religions are based on.

Unfortunately, the government doesn't go away if you stop believing in it.

Re:Not a real issue

[dr.badass]

Should some half-assed radio station start spewing out false information, with thousands of people listening and believing them, they quite literally could cause a lot of harm.

This is a risk with any broadcaster, one that we generally find acceptable. This is why we have the FCC.

Keep in mind that radios inside the Astrodome can still pick up a half dozen radio stations from outside, any one of which could do as you're suggesting. They probably already have. The only differences with this group are it's political connotations, and the size of its transmitter.

I'm sure that whomever at FEMA is holding this back thinks that they are doing a good thing, but from where I stand it looks more like an act of highly selective censorship.

Re:Not a real issue

[xander2032]

Oh lord, not another ARES whacker! You guys really need to chill. Just because you're a badass EC, it doesn't make you the "expert" of all things radio.

"But providing a communications channel without professional guidance as to content and application could just as easily cause more harm then good."

hmmmmm... You know there's lots of those around. The telephone, the internet, and even "gasp" amateur radio!

They should probably ban those in there too eh? Especially all of that amateur radio equipment that's probably being used to incite riots and stuff eh?

Oh wait... Most of my fellow hams seem to have voted for Bush. So I guess you guys are okay eh?

Well then, we'll just ban everything else! Let's take their cell phones away at gun point!

Re:Not a real issue

[DavidTC]

No, it would be shameful for someone in the USA to be unable to express such a position.

Talk about a strawman. No one said anyone shouldn't be able to express an opinion, just that it was shameful for them to do so. Exactly like you did, BTW.

And with public airwaves does come public responsibilities, that's why they have a damn license from the FCC. If they broadcast irresponsible stuff, they can be delicensed and shut down. Just like any other station in that area.

Re:Not a real issue

[evilviper]

sooo... you're saying you support oppression of opinions that are against opressing people?

I never suggested suppression of any opinions.

I disagree with the parent on the point, however I never suggested that he should be censored or suppressed. I also don't agree that his post is in support of oppressed people.

I do, however, support the reasonable suppression of factually incorrect statements, particularly those that can cause harm.

Information wants to be controlled

[carcosa30]

Sounds to me like they think information is such an important resource that they want to control it. This radio station sounds like it might not be run by Clearchannel, and it might put out some information that might sound bad, so they have to clamp down on it right away to limit media outlets to government controlled spin.

Kind of like how the National Guard is preventing people from photographing the reportedly huge number of corpses in East NOLA.

http://organicwarfare.blogspot.com/

MOD ABUSE!! THIS IS OFFTOPIC!!

[Anonymous Coward]

The story here is about a low power radio system blocked by red type. What the fuck does George W. Bush have to do with this?

Modding this comment up as "insightful" is just blatant abuse by the moderators. The comment is not insightful to begin with, but more importantly has no relevance whatsover to the story. What the fuck is this comment adding to the discussion? Nothing, that's what, it's just a cheap shot and has become SOP at slashdot nowadays.

The editors should be notified of this blatant abuse of moderation points and the offending mods should be banned from ever moderating again.

Re:MOD ABUSE!! THIS IS OFFTOPIC!!

[Titus B. Otch]

> Modding this comment up as "insightful" is just blatant abuse by the moderators.

Welcome to /. - home to pseudo-intellectual Eurotrash and their disenfranchised liberal American boofu buddies. Enjoy your stay here...

mod deez nutz! (+5 Redundant, yet Insightful)

Fed vs. Local... or is it?

[BrianRaker]

Uhm, correct me if I'm wrong (and I know that someone will) but a local governmental body (city or county, or even state) can't block a radio station that already has FCC approval (i.e. a broadcaster's license). Right?

The only problem I could see is if the owner of the LPFM station was trying to use the infrastructure of the stadium (power, physical plant, etc) to run the station. That can be blocked by the entity responsible for the building without any recourse.

Re:Fed vs. Local... or is it?

[Detritus]

They can keep you off the property by declaring you a trespasser. If the FCC temporary station license specified a location that can't be accessed due to bureaucratic intransigence, you're screwed.

Re:Fed vs. Local... or is it?

[Jim_Callahan]

Aye that's what happened. "What? A radio station? Bugger off, we're trying to keep people fed here. No, I'm not going to let you fuck with the electrical system, go cook some soup or something if you need something to do." If they provided their own equipment in entirety, they could set up in a van in the parking lot and no one would care.

Illegal to block it

[HermanAB]

As far as I understand the rules, local authorities do not have the legal power to stop a radio transmitter, since that is a federal matter.

So the officials that are refusing to allow it, are overstepping their authority and sooner or later someone else will come down on their heads like ton of bricks.

Re:Illegal to block it

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the officials are not overstepping their authority. They can't stop the station from broadcasting, but they can stop it from broadcasting from the Astrodome. Big difference there. There'd be nothing to stop the station from going on the air from another location nearby. However, I don't know how well the signal would penetrate a building of that size.

Re:Illegal to block it

[Jim_Callahan]

A refusal to supply the resources to set up a radio station is in no way illegal, as local authorities are not responsible for handing you equipment every time you want to do something. I'm licensed to carry a concealed firearm, but that doesn't mean I can file a complaint when the local sherrif's office doesn't provide me with ammunition. If the radio folks set up in, say, a van on their own property, with their own equipment, there wouldn't be a problem.

Re:Illegal to block it

[Moofie]

You keep saying that, but it doesn't make it more true.

These folks came with all equipment in hand. They had 10,000 radios ready to hand out, with more on the way. They brought their own electricity, and they were not allowed to broadcast.

Why?

Because FEMA has a dude with a mic and a loudspeaker, and that should be good enough.

Uh huh.

very simple reason...

[KillShill]

they want to control all the information that's coming out of the area.

they don't want the rest of the nation to know that hundreds of THOUSANDS of people have died due to the direct negligence of this administration. they knew full well as far back as 2002 that new orleans would be in big trouble due to flooding and hurricanes. that's why they were in the middle of building levees. then all of a sudden the funding was cut off to pay for the iraq war.

there are many stories coming out of new orleans that the government and fema are doing all they can to prevent photos and news from leaking out rather than helping the afflicted. even stories of children being searched for cameras.

and just about every aid agency and foreign assistance is being turned away or being delayed as long as possible.

the fact that the rest of the world's news media are doing a far better job of covering this event than the US... is something to contemplate.

when they burned down fallujah and other cities and bombarded it with depleted uranium, which has a half life of millions of years..., and killed lots of civilians... it was ok with the US public. but when the administration redirected the funding of the new orleans levees to pay for the war and ended up causing the worst disaster in the history of the country... i just have to wonder why FEMA and this administration isn't doing everything it can to prevent the real death toll and damage assessment from coming out.

remember kids, war is good for the economy and ignorance is strength.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/war_is_a_racket_03 3103.htm

http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline

Re:very simple reason...

[cduffy]

depleted uranium, which has a half life of millions of years

Uhh.

Depleted uranium isn't dangerous because it's radioactive; it's dangerous because it's poisonous. The level of radioactivity given off by DU is completely insignificant -- hence "depleted" -- the problem is that breathing in DU dust causes cancer, for reasons completely and totally unrelated to radioactivity. Conclusion: the half life is completely irrelevant.

Re:very simple reason...

[JetFox]

"they knew full well as far back as 2002 that new orleans would be in big trouble due to flooding and hurricanes." Actually, i'm sure most everyone knew that New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen. For as long as i can remember, people have been talking about New Orleans getting hit by a hurricane. I'm certain people knew something catastrophic would happen if/when the area was hit (being under sea level as is). And, now that this has happened, no one seemed to be prepared...and how long has New Orleans been around?

Re:very simple reason...

[wilsonao]

they don't want the rest of the nation to know that hundreds of THOUSANDS of people have died due to the direct negligence of this administration.

Where is your proof of that? Give me a reference that shows it could even be somewhat close to that number. You, sir, are talking out of your ass.

they knew full well as far back as 2002 that new orleans would be in big trouble due to flooding and hurricanes. that's why they were in the middle of building levees. then all of a sudden the funding was cut off to pay for the iraq war.

They knew long before 2002. You just chose that number so you could place this administration at fault. Besides, the levee that broke was not even one on a list for improvement.

remember kids, war is good for the economy and ignorance is strength.

No, actually it is horrible for an economy overall. Only a select few sectors benefit from war. Go learn something before you start spouting crap like that.

Re:very simple reason...

[neomunk]

Uhhhhhhhh... DU gives off small quantities of radiation, right, but what ELSE it does makes that small quantity of radiation very very dangerous. What it does is it binds to the nucleotides that make you gorw your parts in a nice precise way. Great you say, heavy metal DNA, just like the 80's hair bands! But alas, all is not well, because after it's bound to your DNA, the radiation, you know, the stuff that's completely unrelated to the cancer you're talking about, merrily bashes it's way through your genetic code, changing things in it's path and doing nice things like making your lung tissue a little overzealous, hell, even patriotic in it's attempt to grow and make you breath better. it does work right tho, and we call that cancer. Hey, just cause you read a DoD memo on why we aren't 'REALLY' using nuclear weapons doesn't make you an expert.

Re:very simple reason...

[ChipMonk]

the radiation... merrily bashes it's way through your genetic code, changing things in it's path

Right now, you are being bombarded with neutrinos which do exactly that. Avoiding uranium will not help you avoid mutations.

Re:very simple reason...

[Anonymous Coward]

They weren't in the middle of building levees. Those levees are probably older than you not to mention that the tug-o-war over the Corps of Engineer's budget for SE Louisiana has been going on since Carter was President, if not longer.

Re:very simple reason...

[maxume]

It isn't clear yet how many victims their are. It is unlikely to number in the HUNDREDS of thousands. Probably the tens of thousands which is just as bad. I can't believe people are comparing it to 9/11 though, where maybe 30,000 were directly under attack, New Oreans had a population in the millions, things are going to be at least 100 time harder.

As far as 'they knew full well as far back as 2002', what about the people who actually didn't bother to realize or think about the possible ramifications of living under a lake? Do they personally bear any responsibility for the situation they have put themselves in? Also, I doubt that the billions being spent in Iraq have had that much of an impact on the several billion that should have been spent on the levees.

The great news is that Citibank has donated 8.3 million dollars on behalf of their 300,000 employees! Nearly $28 a person!

Re:very simple reason...

[Anonymous Coward]

they don't want the rest of the nation to know that hundreds of THOUSANDS of people have died due to the direct negligence of this administration. Direct negligence or not, it seems that censorship is alive and well in the US of A. Have to ask why sites like disastersearch.org can't get press coverage, despite having possibly the largest database around for people to search for others? I heard they have over 225,000 people registered - thats close on quater of a million folks! There's whispers that Red Cross volunteers search the database, but of course they are not "permitted to" - too bad if someone is desperately trying to find a survivor. FEMA apparently didn't want to know about the db. Want to bet that someone decides that too many people are registering on the site and that this needs to be controlled?

Re:very simple reason...

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad they cannot control the information. FEMA *asks* such sites to stop providing information, however they can do little against it. People seeking for information will finally find it, its just a shame they will need longer to find the right spots because of that human ignorant behaviour of some politicans and authorities.

Set It Up Next Door?

[reallocate]

I know nothing about the range of low-power transmitters, but would the same results be achieved if the station was relocated just outside the Astrodome?

While there are obvious advantages to being inside the dome -- access to information -- being next door might be better than nothing.

eep

[dlefavor]

But providing a communications channel without professional guidance as to content and application could just as easily cause more harm then good.

Why does this statement make my blood run cold?

Re:eep

[JohnnyGTO]

It shouldn't just look at the chaos caused by incorrect information regarding debit cards being handed out. It was a near riot and could have cause a lot of injuries.

Re:eep

[fyoder]

But providing a communications channel without professional guidance as to content and application could just as easily cause more harm then good.

Why does this statement make my blood run cold?

I dunno, possibly because the FCC granted temporary licences and the project was backed by mayor and governor yet FEMA thinks it should trump those entities. This isn't a case of some wackos whipping up a quick illegal pirate radio station to promote revolution. It borders on a kind of assumed martial law without actual martial having been declared to override civil authority. IANAL, perhaps someone who knows the legal ins and outs can explain how this is legal.

Re:eep

[Qzukk]

Yeah, obviously they need more bullhorns, not radios. Nothing gets your point across faster than 500 people screaming into their bullhorn at max!

"RRRararammmaarrr rararrrrR! GeRaaaarrRRRAararR RRAaraRaarRRarRR!"

Re:eep

[JohnnyGTO]

It's a bloody stadium why don't they use that big multi million dollar big screen ?

Re:eep

[zenyu]

It shouldn't just look at the chaos caused by incorrect information regarding debit cards being handed out. It was a near riot and could have cause a lot of injuries.

You know if they had been on the air already the could have quickly corrected the missinformation spread by Mr. Bush and his gang. And, then the chaos would have been averted.

Barking orders into a bullhorn just makes people want to rip the head off the bastard with the bullhorn.

This is just another example of why we need to destroy our current government at all levels and replace them with a workable democratic one (one with proportional representation to get rid of the Republicrats, assuming former members of the party would be allowed to run eventually). I would also jail the people involved in the scam, but I'm sure most people would rather see the higher officials hanged and then drawn and quartered (now that is reality TV!).

Still they should have just gone pirate and asked for forgiveness later; let that be a lesson to anyone who wants to do good. The government wouldn't have had the balls to order them off-the-air anytime soon.

Re:eep

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats like saying "there were bloody base closings just last month, why don't they use all the empty barracks to give the people real housing with real pluming and some privacy?"

That would require thinking.

Re:eep

[Anonymous Coward]

Your an idiot. The rumors were started by the people in the dome. As for a "democratic" goverment what you would have is a chaotic mess were every minority out there would be crushed be the ruling majority. Thats what a democracy is "ruled by majority" I'm Canadian and even I know that. Obviously the American school system has failed yet another moron.

Re:eep

[DavidTC]

FEMA has no authority to override local government in the Astrodome, because the Astrodome is not, in fact, in a Federal disaster area. There is no martial law.

Checking google, it looks like Harris County owns the Astrodome. While they may have given permission to house people in it, they can put a damn legal radio station inside it if they so choose.

Quit playing the blame game

[spun]

I love how the White House and its supporters speak out of both sides of their mouth.

Don't play the blame game, but it's all the state and local governments' fault.

Re:Quit playing the blame game

[Jim_Callahan]

Uh, could you scootch over a little bit? All that straw is making my neck itch.

Re:Quit playing the blame game

[spun]

I had to think about this for a minute, and I concluded you may be right. Just because the White House is being hypocritical doesn't mean that the state and local governments are blameless. So it is a bit of a straw man argument. But that also doesn't make Bush any less of a failure.

Re:Quit playing the blame game

[Dun Malg]

I love how the White House and its supporters speak out of both sides of their mouth. Don't play the blame game, but it's all the state and local governments' fault.

What? Nobody's absolving the Feds. There's plenty of blame for everyone. It just seems that in some people's rush to skewer our favorite mumblemouth whipping boy, they're holding up the state and local officials as a bunch of innocent victims. Problem is, they're as much a knot of corrupt, inept fucktards as the feds and they ought to be skewered also. Sure, FEMA's the easy target because they stood around saying "what do we do?" when their only job is to know what to do in an emergency-- but between the city just leaving a bunch of buses to wash away and not bothering to stockpile any supplies for refugees, and the Louisiana State Department of Homeland Security (a STATE agency, not federal) telling the Red Cross they couldn't take their convoy of food, water, blankets, and porta potties to the Super Dome because "we don't want people to stay there"; well, I say burn the lot of 'em. Government is full of shitheads at all levels, and I think there's enough to get angry about here to drag all of them out and tar and feather them for their gross incompetence.

Re:Quit playing the blame game

[jcr]

I love how the White House and its supporters speak out of both sides of their mouth.

I love the way that knee-jerkers assume that if I rap one set of incompetent politicos, that I must be a supporter of the other wing of the Ruling Party.

it's all the state and local governments' fault.

No, it's actually God's fault. I'd really be going off on the almighty, if only He weren't ficitious.

-jcr

Re:Quit playing the blame game

[Darby]

Government is full of shitheads at all levels, and I think there's enough to get angry about here to drag all of them out and tar and feather them for their gross incompetence.

*Spray paint this everywhere!*

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[RentonSentinel]

So FEMA was constructed and put in place using the Presidency, the Congress, and under the watchful eye of the Judiciary.

They will be the final arbiters of what can and cannot happen in the dome. If you do not like it, you need to elect representatives who can change the system.

A rag-tag group of washed up hippies cannot be alowed to over-ride federal control or military control.

I'm sorry, but this is the harsh reality of life.

Everything is not about your pleasure.

It is about a chain of command.

It's all about control!

[Anonymous Coward]

FEMA is all about being able to control the American population. Ultimatly they will need no disaster to put fences around us with the razor wire pointing inward.

Haha, now you know how the left feels

[spun]

Of course, Faux News is a media behemoth while Indymedia and the Village Voice preach only to the choir. Left wing media my ass, corporate media and invisible fringe, that's all there is. Freedom of the press only applies if you own a big enough press.

Names to remember

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember these names:

        Rita Obey
        RW Royall Jr.

If you're with the government you'll want to promote them for their ability to control possible information distribution. And being able to see beyond the needs of the evacuees. This has implications far beyond the immediate needs of a few unfortunates.

If you're with any other company you probably will want to remember how they've acted during this event (and use that as a modifier when considering any kind of business with these people).

Obviously honorable mention has to go to Wayne Barker for trying to explain the situation while still following the party line.

Re:black people

[jrnchimera]

What part of "The local government must call for federal aid before federal arrives." don't you understand? The mayor of New York called almost immediately for federal aid.

George Bush had been trying to get the local government to declare a need for federal assistance.

This is NOT the federal governments fault.

If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about just keep your damn partisan bullshit to yourself!

Re:black people

[Marxist Hacker 42]

George Bush had been trying to get the local government to declare a need for federal assistance.

You might want to check Snopes before you try to repeat urban legends as fact, lest we think you're a part of the current administration (who all seem to be so media illiterate that they probably can't spell snopes let alone look up to see if their information is accurate before spreading it).

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[cosmol]

I hear what you are saying. but....

This wouldn't be such a big deal if the dome-dwellers were kept informed of what was going on by FEMA or whatever agency in the first place. But from what I glean from the press, the people were getting absolutely no information on what was going on.

If you do not like it, you need to elect representatives who can change the system.

Part of electing representatives is voicing your opionions. Free speech is vital to the process.

If it is about chain-of-command then someone in that chain royally fucked up and will pay the price.

You must be joking

[spun]

Please, my sides are hurting! Beaurocratic goverment employees are just as corrupt, if not more so, as elected officials. My step dad was very high up in the FAA, head of US security for all Central and South American airports that US airlines fly into. He told all kinds of stories of graft and corruption. To be fair, most government employees are merely lazy and incompetant, not actually corrupt, but there are enough really bad apples to spoil the bunch.

Tell me, when was the last time your department spent under its budget? How many last minute purchases did it take to spend every last cent? That kind of corruption happens everywhere. The more heinous kind only happens in departments with actual authority over something valuable. Bribes and more bribes, kickbacks, nepotism, you name it, I've seen it or heard first hand stories.

So take your hurt little attitude for a ride around the block while filing an expense report for three times the mileage, m'kay?

so I'm lingering those this section

[recharged95]

and thought the headline said...

"Refugee Radio Station Blocked by Red State"

Had to do a double take and all is well now.

Re:so I'm lingering those this section

[bombshelter13]

Indeed, this sounds like the sort of behaviour one would expect of a blue state.

Re:black people

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually.. you don't know what the fuck your talking about.. apparently you've been tuned into the Right Wing Liberal machine.. good thing some of them were forced to post retractions about THIS bit of info!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050905/cm_huffp ost/006889

Maybe you need to diversify your New source intake, bucko.

Re:black people

[jrnchimera]

Who's "facts" do you believe? I heard on a news broadcast that GWB was trying to get the local officials to declare a need for federal aid. And you don't care to comment on the other parts of my post? The actual meat of the comment? How telling...

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[RentonSentinel]

Good!

So the proper thing to do, would be to complain about FEMA loudly!

Say, "hey FEMA, *YOU* people need to set up a radio station because X Y and Z cannot happen until you do".

And we must bring pressure to bear on FEMA if they really should have a radio station but are not providing one.

Chances are though, I don't think they actually need one. But I could be wrong.

I do know for sure, they can't let someone else just "freelance" one.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL

I think Mine Fuhror may have just found someone to head up his voter re-education plan. FEMA radio? From the peple who told you that everyone was being fed when they weren't. The people whoe didn't see a levee breach coming.

FEMA == courruption.

look at how its head got to where he is and ask yourself if the people need outside information.

Indymedia's sole purpose . . .

[wsanders]

. . . is to taunt police until they get their asses kicked.

It's a lousy job but somebody's got to do it.

Re:Indymedia's sole purpose . . .

[winkydink]

As the News guy on KFOG used to say, "If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own." :)

Re:Indymedia's sole purpose . . .

[Zibblsnrt]

. . . is to taunt police until they get their asses kicked.

Now, now, Indymedia has two purposes. The other one is to lie about why they got their asses kicked after the fact so they can appear martyred.

-PS

Re:black people

[Anonymous Coward]

should have been Right Wing Anti-Liberal Machine and News source

ahh for the love of actually using the preview button.

Well of course

[Anonymous Coward]

Naturally the Red Cross and FEMA don't want a damn Indy radio station broadcasting things inside the dome. Look folks this is an official evacuation and relocation area, the last thing they need is bunches of people asking about the (fill in the blank) handout or giveaway they might or might not be eligible for that somebody heard on the radio station. They don't need a whole bunch of questions about this or that viewpoint or new story or possibility the Indy press starts spouting about. They don't need a bunch or radios generating echoes while the loudspeakers are making announcements, or people wanting to plug in radios cause their batteries are low or asking for batteries so they can hear the broadcast,, or people wanting radios to hear the broadcasts but which end up with everyone just tuning to dozens of Latino, or Jazz, or Rock or whatever stations simply because they've heard all the public service news and now they want to be entertained cause their bored as hell in there. So before you know it, instead of a public service broadcast system you have a cacophony of noise from hundreds or thousands or receivers that were distributed so they could hear the free public service announcements from this one low power station being used to tune in everything else.
What's more this is still an emergency aid delivery service. I realize that some of you equate organization and orderliness with fascism in almost knee jerk fashion, but to be blunt a certain amount of tyranny is needed to maintain effect delivery of service in an environment as potentially chaotic as the Astrodome. tens of thousands of people living in a space not really intended for such use and all clamoring for things all the time means that the only way the bare essentials and progress in processing these folks can possibly reach everyone is through ORDERLY process and rules. Whatever the truth from the one sided media presentation I'm perfectly willing to believe that the proposers of this were earnest in their good intentions and I'm also relieved that somebody on the scene was sharp enough to spot the unintended consequences of this and nip it in the bud. Please, please, please before critiquing further would all of you amateur experts in delivering mass care to hundreds of thousands of people kindly stop spouting nonsense and let the folks actually delivering that care do their jobs. This is one of those few times when shutting up and letting people work then evaluating after the fact, or at least after some little time has passed might actually yield a better criticism or at least a more constructive one.
Honest to gosh, stop thinking anyone is grinding some ax and instead grow up enough to realize that everybody, and yes that includes Bush, the FEMA folks, the aid workers, the governor, the mayor, and just all our fellow Americans are simply appalled by the scope of this and are trying as hard as they can to get these folks to permanent shelters and clean up from one of the worst disasters to ever hit us. Finger pointing, tin foil hat theories, political attacks and rhetoric, grinding political axes, and slinging mud and bad mouthing can wait till after the thing is solved. I assure you that their will be more then enough partisanship, bickering, second guessing and backstabbing to please even the most rabid of you. For now stop jumping on every pet idea that you think is screwed, and playing along on the latest media attack. The media is in it for headlines and anyone, and I mean anyone, who has been close to any particular item that has ever been in the news and had a chance to compare their full knowledge of a situation to the single viewpoint, go for the jugular, if it bleeds it leads attitude of media spin knows just how worthless these stories are till after all retractions and the inevitable corrections or explanations are given.
Can we PLEASE get the debris cleaned up and the victims taken care off before you start manning up the firing squads and prepping for the public lynching of your favorite villainous politician or official?
PLEASE, pretty please with sugar on top and everything.

Re:Well of course

[Halvy]

Why do you think by going on-and-on-and-on-and-on, will convince people of anything.

I stopped reading your novel when you claimed that people should not be able to listen to radios because it was an emergancy.

There are Soooo many things that can be done to accomodate the people who are displaced, as opposed to 'accomodating' the government or agencies that are there to 'help' them.

You sir, are the one who has things backwards here.

People can be required to listen outside, wear headsets, listen only during day time hours etc.

So your attempt at being 'slick' with all your pysco-babel really is just a waste-- but does probably play well with all of the 'anti-Christian' Bush supporters.

Re:black people

[jrnchimera]

HuffingtonPost is now considered reliable and unbiased? You've got be kidding. That article does not speak to the FACTS that I brought up in my original comment. Perhaps you'd do well to follow your own advice?

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[RentonSentinel]

Again, your arguments are meaningless.

1) If FEMA is corrupt, what guarantee do we have that these hippies are less corrupt?!?!?

2) If people need outside information THEY CAN GET IT from any other radio station / internet / bulletin board / flyer.

3) Name calling and Nazi references are a hallmark of a failing argument. Now, FEMA has been put in charge by the will of the American people. I'm sorry, but you will just have to deal with that nasty bit of information.

Houston IndyMedia?

[daveschroeder]

Um, come on, guys.

You want a radio station catering to the evacuees run by people who literally believe things like the Bush administration is not only responsible for the poor response[1], but is actually responsible for the hurricane itself? Or who would invite those who believe the levees were blown up by the government as a plot to remove all of the black people from New Orleans so the rich whites could take it over? (After all, they needed more room!)

Yeah, that'll really help the situation!

Bullshit. In an emergency housing situation, the infrastructure at the facility, the facility-wide loudspeaker system, and newsletters/handouts/flyers are *more* than enough to disseminate information. We don't need a bunch of self-righteous radicals inciting people who already believe the government wanted to kill them.

In an alternate reality where this station was allowed, run with the agenda that Houston IndyMedia and Village Voice certainly has, many evacuees would no doubt be incited, and the authorities would *still* be blamed for "not getting them out of temporary housing fast enough" or "not responding to their needs fast enough", even though Texas and Houston have gone completely out of their way to assist in any way possible.

I guess a lot of people can and do look a gift horse in the mouth.

[1] As an aside, someone said in other post "look at the difference between 9/11 and NOLA...rich white financial district, and help was there within 5 minutes", etc. Um, hello? Who responded to 9/11 in NYC itself? Local authorities. Who *didn't* respond in a satisfactory fashion in NOLA? The same. Oh, wait, let me guess: it's not a state and local municipal responsibility, it was somehow magically a federal one? Just sent thousands of people to a fucking convention center and football stadium with NO PLAN whatever, save "waiting for the feds"? Yeah, real smart, folks.

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[randyest]

Thank you for posting this.

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[shitdrummer]

...even though Texas and Houston have gone completely out of their way to assist in any way possible.

Out of their way?!? What the Fuck?!? You make it sound like the displaced should be grateful that their countrymen came to their aid. Isn't that what being part of a country is all about? All working together for the common good and to overcome tragedy?

I guess a lot of people can and do look a gift horse in the mouth

People like you make me sick. Where is your compassion for your fellow man? Oh, I forgot, compassion is some crazy left wing ideology that has no place in modern corporate America. Fuck You! I just hope that you are never in need of the kind of help that these victims are.

Shitdrummer.

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[Halvy]

"look at the difference between 9/11 and NOLA...rich white financial district, and help was there within 5 minutes", etc. Um, hello? Who responded to 9/11 in NYC itself? Local authorities.

Yea that's right, because the 'feds' (including the armies, etc) were tooo afraid to respond to 911, for fear that they might have a 'real fight' on their hands!

So they went into third world countries.. AHHHHND they STILL can't handle it!!

Now in NOLA, the locals thought that maybe.. just MAYBE.. that the feds could handle sending ships, airplanes, airboats, whatever, in advance, in order to help 'preserve' The Union..

People 'like you'-- need to be brought to justice, just like the whole republican party needs to be brought to justice-- by WHATEVER means is necessary, including anarchy on you mf's. :)

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[learn fast]

But I wonder, can you defend this:

But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.

What kind of person would think that would be the best use for 50 firefighters as thousands of people were drowning in their homes?

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, Bush chastised when he doesn't visit, and chastised when he does.

First, from the very article you're quoting, the firefighters responding to the consolidated request for aid were very clearly told FEMA was looking for two-person community relations teams. Community relations, public relations, security, field medical assistance if necessary.

And on this coming Monday, "thousands of people" aren't going to be "drowning in their homes". The ones who have already drowned had, and thousands of police, active duty and reserve military, state guardsmen from Louisiana and other states, and rescue workers from all over the country and indeed other countries, are already in Louisiana, combing New Orleans and other flooded areas. Further, the tour is to last for a relatively short period of time.

So, would you rather Bush not visit, when he got assraped for not visiting quickly enough the first time, and is still being chastised for being "out of touch" with the situation?

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[Anonymous Coward]

"waiting for the feds"? Yeah, real smart, folks.

Well gee, it would have been smart, if only the feds had bothered to show up. Maybe Bush should have just gone out and told everyone "Hey, you all! I know we used do the emergency response thing all the time, but this time I'm just going to sit around on vacation and play my guitar and you all can go straight to hell!" so that NOLA would have known that unlike every other major disaster this country has faced they'd have no backup for days and planned accordingly?

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[dangitman]

So, would you rather Bush not visit, when he got assraped for not visiting quickly enough the first time,

You seem to have a strange definition of "assraped." After all, being raped anally is a very disgusting criminal act. How can you possibly compare Bush being criticized (while he hides behind Secret Service security forces) with somebody being raped?

Also, people weren't bothered that Bush wasn't in New Orleans for a photo-opportunity. Who cares if Bush isn't actually there? He only gets in the way of rescue operations, anyway.

Bush was criticized because he showed callous disregard for the victims, and didn't do everything in his power to address the situation in New Orleans. he remained on vacation while people died.

When Bush did something, he went down for a photo-op, and set up fake relief stations. He grounded rescue helicopters so he could take pretty photos with fake "hurricane survivors." Nobody would care if he never turned up in person, if he had just done his job, and immediately ordered everybody to help the refugees, on the first day of flooding.

Stop making excuses for the inexcusable.

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[Scudsucker]

First, from the very article you're quoting, the firefighters responding to the consolidated request for aid were very clearly told FEMA was looking for two-person community relations teams. Community relations, public relations, security, field medical assistance if necessary.

You idiot. That only happened AFTER they had been sitting in Atlanta hotel rooms for days! Here, I'll quote the article since you were too stupid to comprehend it: Many of the firefighters, assembled from Utah and throughout the United States by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, thought they were going to be deployed as emergency workers. Instead, they have learned they are going to be community-relations officers for FEMA, shuffled throughout the Gulf Coast region to disseminate fliers and a phone number: 1-800-621-FEMA.So FEMA took these people highly trained in disaster relief, and then used them to hand out phone numbers and photo ops with the president.

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you, Faggot.

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of person would think that would be the best use for 50 firefighters as thousands of people were drowning in their homes?

here's a theory.
Brown has been doing "a great job", Bush said? Hm...

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[salesgeek]

You make it sound like the displaced should be grateful that their countrymen came to their aid. Isn't that what being part of a country is all about? All working together for the common good and to overcome tragedy?

It's important that those helping be acknowledged and complimented for helping instead of treated to a dose of entitlement mentality media scrutiny - if we want them to help again next time.

That said, scrutiny of those who let us all down on the response to Katrina is appropriate.

Where is your compassion for your fellow man?

It was a compasionate decision to prevent the potential incitement of a riot in the worlds largest living room.

Re:Houston IndyMedia?

[Cadmandu]

Where is my mod points when I need them

Re:black people

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't bother to read it obviously...
It indeed points to a retraction in a source I am sure you normally have no problem with:

from TFA: "The Post, citing an anonymous "senior Bush official", reported on Sunday that, as of Saturday, Sept. 3, Blanco "still had not declared a state of emergency"... when, in fact, the declaration had been made on Friday, August 26 -- over 2 days BEFORE Katrina made landfall in Louisiana. This claim was so demonstrably false that the paper was forced to issue a correction just hours after the original story appeared."

Here's a link to the retraction since you are apparently lazy:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

But hey, cover your ears and start saying "la la la" I'm SURE it's not what you wanted to hear..

What is required for me to do this? (FM station)

[JPriest]

This might make a great ask.slashdot question and maybe a cool home project. What do I have to go through to broadcast from AM or FM from my home? What equipment (HAM?) would you suggest using to do so?

Is there additional requirements to broadcasting non-royalty free music? If I do decide to broadcast music then how much do I pay and to whom? I would LOVE to learn more about this.

Re:black people

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Who's "facts" do you believe?

Well, let's see the options. A well known website that debunks or supports urban ledgends based on sound research, or "news" programs well known for actually buying stories from the government. I think I'll take the first.

I heard on a news broadcast that GWB was trying to get the local officials to declare a need for federal aid.

And if you check snopes, that urban legend has been debunked. Yes, the administration itself has been trying to put forth that image to make a very bad excuse for not showing up sooner- and yes, elsewhere on Snopes you'll actually find support for such things as underwater buses and other mistakes made by local officials- but the point is to try to tell the truth, otherwise you do more harm to your side than is needed. And repeating stuff you heard on a single news program with no colaberation for the story? That's just drinking the kool aid without checking it for poison first.

And you don't care to comment on the other parts of my post?

No, because the other parts of your post were mere logical extensions of a fact that did not exist to begin with, and thus were invalid by extension.

The actual meat of the comment?

The actual meat of the comment seemed to be that local officials needed to call for federal aid before federal aid would be offered. The link to snopes in my message shows the real timeline that was recorded- and that it was actually 3 days between the local officials asking for a mandatory evacuation, declaring a state of emergency, and formally asking for federal help, all of which were done BEFORE the hurricane hit; and the federal government actually responding at all. It was an additional 2 days before NBC broke the news in an interview to the head of FEMA that there were people in the convention center- something that the entire rest of the country knew the entire time.

I'm sorry- the basic excuse of "but we couldn't go in until the local governments asked us to" falls completely flat on it's face- and that is obvious from the Snopes article on the subject that I linked to.

Like I said the first time- next time check snopes before you repeat urban legends you heard on the "news".

Re:black people

[blueskies]

I'm going to assume you are just ignorant and get your talking points from conservative news.

The mayor of New York called almost immediately for federal aid.

Yeah, but the Gov. of LA called for aid before the disaster. There is no way the mayor of New York called for federal aid before that disaster! Check the date of her memo. Asking for Federal Aid the day before the disaster is not enough time? Please explain your illogic.

Also Washington sat on a request for New Mexico's national guard to help out in LA:

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.

So why do you think it is not GW and the fed's fault?

Check out the date on this picture of our "wonderful" leader. (answer: 1 day after the huricane hit)

And don't get me started on the crony he picked to lead FEMA. If you pick someone you know is incompetent to fill a role, then you are to blame when their incompetence leads to lives lost.

Re:black people

[Titus B. Otch]

Ah, I see now. Marxist, you believe quoting web site links as factual, informative, or justification for you "beliefs"? And those were reports from some "reporter" analyzing said events out in Florida?!

Hmm. Where's the real ignorance here? Some of us actually live along the Gulf Coast line and were actually there, so go back to your precious little google repo for your "wealth" of enlightenment...

Re:black people

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Ah, I see now. Marxist, you believe quoting web site links as factual, informative, or justification for you "beliefs"?

Actually, it was just a convient story link for something I also saw elsewhere- including a big story back on August 27th in my local paper about the mandatory evacuation and declaration of State of Emergency.

And those were reports from some "reporter" analyzing said events out in Florida?!

Not only- partially, but there has been a lot more written on the subject than just that.

Hmm. Where's the real ignorance here? Some of us actually live along the Gulf Coast line and were actually there,

Yes- and nearly 275,000 of them actually believed the stories and got out before the hurricane under the mandatory evacuation order.

so go back to your precious little google repo for your "wealth" of enlightenment..

Better than watching obviously shilled news stories on television while your neighbors drown.

Re:Low-Power AM

[tylernt]

What I want to know is, why don't they just use low power AM? You need *NO* license at all to do low-power AM broadcasting, and your signal should be strong enough to cover the 'Dome no sweat.

Florida

[redeyeowl]

What happened in New Orleans is a tragedy and the people there do need help. But let's not forget the people of Florida who have not yet recovered from last year's 4 hurricanes. They need as much help today as they did before Katrina. Don't send all the funds to New Orleans Peter Kuhn Lakeland Florida doublewidetrailer@gmail.com

Re:Florida

[Anonymous Coward]

fucking dont live in florida and complain to me about hurricanes

Re:black people

[Anonymous Coward]

Who wants to help/evacuate people who contribute nothing to society? I say we should have evacuated all the non-blacks and executed the rest.

a poverty of facts

[ChipMonk]

Your post is so pathetic on so many levels. I'll be merciful, and point out just two:

The longer an isotope's half-life, the less radiation it emits in any fixed time frame. Depleted uranium, with a half-life of 500K years, is barely radioactive.

More to the point: You're so ready to blame the evil Republicans, and Bush in particular, with the destruction wreaked by Katrina. You don't care (did you RTFA?) that the microtransmitter in the Astrodome was blocked by the local authorities, led by Gov. Blanco (a Democrat) and Mayor Nagin (also a Democrat).

Re:a poverty of facts

[bnenning]

You don't care (did you RTFA?) that the microtransmitter in the Astrodome was blocked by the local authorities, led by Gov. Blanco (a Democrat) and Mayor Nagin (also a Democrat).

Well, the Astrodome is in Houston, so I doubt Nagin and Blanco have much say there (which is fortunate). However, both of them have in fact displayed mind-boggling incompetence, which the original poster chose to ignore because that would interfere with his "everything bad that happens is Bush's fault" worldview.

Re:black people

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the Washington Post confirms it via retraction.. but hey whatever you want to say.. you must know more since you live "in the general vicinity"..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

Re:What is required for me to do this? (FM station

[Halvy]

Here is one of many fine forums on the subject of Low Power Radio Transmissions.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum23/HTML/000673.html

There are all kinds of folks there from hams, amateures, pirates, radicals and 'straight-laced-types' ;)

This is nonsense

[camperslo]

There's no reason why local radio stations can't provide the needed information. Even if the Clear Channel stations are not very helpful, I'm sure that local public/college stations could fill the need. And if the proposed transmitter is really powerful enough to require a license, there is no reason why these people couldn't provide adequate signal coverage of the area FROM OUTSIDE THE ASTRODOME.

Hasn't this place got a scoreboard with text capability?

Re:This is nonsense

[Halvy]

Well you sure weren't kidding when you called your post "Nonsense", because that is exactly what it is.

Or maybe you just didn't read tfa.

They are NOT ALOUD to broadcast NEAR the dome, period.

So trying to broacast from outside of it, is out of the question, especially now that fema, prick chaney, etc. will be monitoring these malcontents every move (for the good of the nation of course).

And as far as getting the 'clear channel' types in the area to provide the 'needed info', well in case you didn't notice-- that practice only applies to supporting the Industrial-Military-Complex called The Beast, The Machine, Amerika... take your choice. :)

Re:This is nonsense

[camperslo]

I read the article. I disagree. I believe the article misrepresents the facts. One clue is that there was mention of excluding playing rap music. That suggests to me that this was a group of people looking for an excuse to run a legal version of their own little pirate radio station. Sure that would be fun, and potentially even useful, but the rules don't allow it. Instead of a traditional broadcast license, what they would likely get is a license or S.T.A. (Special Temporary Authority) to operate a Travellers' Information Station (Google for FCC 90.242). 90.242 describes low-power AM transmission. Low-power FM transmission has also been available for the same uses since January 2000.

Even with a S.T.A. issued allowing for slightly different use of the proposed station in this situation, I see two primary problems. They are not tied to either the entity that has the information to be broadcast or to the location needing service, and they can't broadcast music. (By tied to the location, the example of a fairground operator providing directions, bus and carpooling information comes to mind) Unless FEMA or local agencies chose to give these people the information they claim to want to broadcast, they have no particular qualifications to do so. Without the Emergency Alert System hardware that other broadcasters must have, they could very easily have worse than normal access to critical information. If one looks at the need for a good system of distributing information on more continuous basis than what normally happens with the emergency alert system, there would be something for people to tune into all over when on the highways. Then people could know at some distance if a particular shelter site was full, if they needed to go somewhere else, what routes were blocked, where fuel, water and food were available etc.
It sounds like there was the seed of a potential good idea, but it was recognized that these were the wrong people to carry it out.

Here are related quotes from F.C.C. information:

"In January 2000 FCC created a low power FM radio service. These stations are available to noncommercial educational entities and public safety /travellers information entities, but not individuals or commercial operations."

"(7) Travelers Information Stations shall transmit only noncommercial voice information pertaining to traffic and road conditions, traffic hazard and travel advisories, directions, availability of lodging, rest stops and service stations, and descriptions of local points of interest. It is not permissible to identify the commercial name of any business establishment whose service may be available within or outside the coverage area of a Travelers Information Station. However, to facilitate announcements concerning departures/arrivals and parking areas at air, train, and bus terminals, the trade name identification of carriers is permitted."

In the United States the authority governing radio stations is the Federal Communications Commission. I'll refer you to the Code Of Federal Regulations, title 47, parts 17 and 70 through 79. Part 90 covers Travellers' Information Stations.

If the F.C.C. grants a traditional AM or FM broadcast license outside the dome and the licensee has a location to broadcast from, no one else has the authority to tell them not to broadcast to people in the dome. There can be other obsticles, but they are not target-audience related.
The studio and transmitter locations must be compatible with local zoning requirements. Many areas have environmental restrictions on towers. It's mainly a matter of people not wanting to look at them in their own backyard. Also there are tower lighting and marking requirements for certain antenna structures depending on structure height and proximity to local airports.
There are also rules to keep people a safe distance from extremely strong radio-frequency electromagnetic fields. Due to problems with people filing for licenses and then trying to sell a station

When I worked at KTEC

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Back in the early 1990s, 5 minutes out of every hour HAD to be public service announcements, by our educational charter. Those got VERY repetitive and boring after a while. The students at KTRU would likely be happy to have something else to read OTHER than the 200th announcement this term telling people to wear seatbelts.

Call the FCC!

[lionoh]

I *highly* suggest any US ciziten reading this article contact the FCC and voice your concern.

From http://www.fcc.gov/contacts.html

To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail

Chairman Kevin J. Martin: KJMWEB@fcc.gov
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy: Kathleen.Abernathy@fcc.gov
Commissioner Michael J. Copps: Michael.Copps@fcc.gov
Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein: Jonathan.Adelstein@fcc.gov

Via US MAIL or Fedex/UPS/etc:

United States Postal Service First-Class Mail, Express Mail & Priority Mail

Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20554

BULLSHIT-- JUST SAY...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, that makes sense. And in the same vein, I don't think I'm going to vote for you, support your re-election campaign, or that of anybody you know or remotely like-- because I already HAVE a government official AND an asshole, and I don't need another of either one.

Re:GODDAMN IT, THE WORD ISN'T REFUGEE OR EVACUEE

[Anonymous Coward]

Hells yeah I'd rock that chunky thighed nubian goddess like a hurricane!

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[Bimo_Dude]

From you GP: A rag-tag group of washed up hippies

and...

what guarantee do we have that these hippies are less corrupt?!?!?

--- SNIP ---

Name calling and Nazi references are a hallmark of a failing argument.

I agree with this last statement wholeheartedly.

"Refugee"? How about using proper English.

[FredThompson]

A "refugee" is someone who is fleeing persecution from other people. Who are the "refugees" of which you speak and why did they go to the hurricane-damaged area seeking asylum?

If you meant victims of the natural disaster hurricane, that's another word entirely.

Bottom line, "normal" societial issues in the damaged area will be suspended until things are under control. That's the way it has always been and the only way thing work. These "volunteers" want to place braodcasting equipment in a damaged building from which they will broadcast whatever they want to people in the damaged area? How incredibly selfish of them. They would not only increase physical security issues for their equipment, as noted above, they'd bring confusion to the people and create more things for the authorities to try to watch. What absolute guarantees are there that these folks wouldn't broadcast erroneous information? This is not a time for civics 101, it's a time for survival.

If these people truely wanted to help, they'd offer themselves and their services are actual volunteers, not prima donnas who want a competing power during emergency times.

Re:"Refugee"? How about using proper English.

[Anonymous Coward]

Um.. A refugee is anyone escaping any type of danger.

Sorry to burst your little bubble.

Re:"Refugee"? How about using proper English.

[Anonymous Coward]

From dictionary.com: "One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution." That's "as in", not "only in". And I think you're confusing the Astrodome with the Superdome. I haven't heard that the Astrodome is a "damaged building."

Re:"Refugee"? How about using proper English.

[Dmala]

Bottom line, "normal" societial issues in the damaged area will be suspended until things are under control. That's the way it has always been and the only way thing work. These "volunteers" want to place braodcasting equipment in a damaged building from which they will broadcast whatever they want to people in the damaged area?

Just FYI, the article talks about people looking to set up a low power FM station in the Astrodome in Houston, TX. To the best of my knowledge, this building is entirely undamaged, as is the vast majority of the greater Houston area.

Re:"Refugee"? How about using proper English.

[arkhan_jg]

I think you've confused the NO superdome, and the Houston astrodome, which is one place where the people from NO were evacuated to. The people who were evacuated were seeking refuge, and thus are refugees. The radio station was to be setup in the refugee centre, (the houston astrodome) which was undamaged by the hurricane and some distance from NO.

Re:"Refugee"? How about using proper English.

[dbIII]

A "refugee" is someone who is fleeing persecution from other people

If the people who try to correct other peoples english on this site would just go away and quietly look up the things they misunderstand in a dictionary (or two, it's a big world out there, both colour and color are correct) there would be far less annoying posts.

In the Queens english the word refugee applies in this situation - people are seeking refuge - really simple isn't it? Your local version possibly may vary but I doubt it. Possibly the reason for your confusion is that self serving idots have used refugee as a dirty word and use the xenophobic context of it meaning some yellow peril that will overwhelm the the good old patriotic locals.

these people truely wanted to help, they'd offer themselves and their services

They are - these are not Scientologists setting up massage stations but people spreading information and assisting people with what they need to do to get through the procedures to get stuff, lists of people in other camps, potentially a lot of useful stuff and better than a big notice board.

This fear of someone setting up some voice of the revolution radio station when the reality is very mundane is strange. Even a radical radio station where I worked as a volunteer for a while was really more interested in broadcasting accomodation notices and lost dogs notices than pushing politics. If I was in the USA and on the spot I would be more help using my skills to help instead of cooking soup under supervision and it's probably the same with these radio guys.

Re:"Refugee"? How about using proper English.

[kwalker]

Two things:

One, you're incorrect (As others have stated) in your definition of refugee. Refugee is anyone who seeks refuge. It doesn't help that the majority of refugees lately have been from political problems.

Second, and this isn't just pointed at you but everyone who parrots "they could broadcast what they want" bullshit. There is one very effective method for stopping them from bruadcasting erroneous information: The Police, National Guard, Red Cross, and other volunteers there. If KAMP did start spouting hate, inciting to riot, or anything else you're afraid of, you stop them. As you so rightly pointed out, this is a crisis (And those in charge are woefully under-manned if they're still in crisis mode this far after the problems started) and I'm sure it would be well within their power to shut down KAMP if they were deliberately broadcasting maliciously. If they were just brodacasting incorrectly, there should be someone to correct them.

There is no excuse for denying help to those in need because the people in charge can't be bothered. KAMP wants to help the people who need it. Monitor it (Which shouldn't be hard if there are radios disbursed throughought the Astrodome and surrounding areas) and shut it down if necessary! Pre-emptively shutting it down is censorship even if it's just because they can't be arsed to grab one of the numerous volunteers who they turned away, hand him/her a radio, and tell him/her to report problems with KAMP.

That's not freedom

[inKubus]

But they say we're free.

They can say whatever they want, and as long as people believe it it's truth.

It's the same classic thing over and over again.

What are you going to do about it?

They're selling you a bridge...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Because control is necessary to survive in hard times."

In an ideal world, centralized control of resources would result in more equitable distribution to weather difficult times. In the real world, centralized control of resources results in those with control giving the resources to themselves and their friends.

Don't make apologies for fascists; the leg you're giving them to stand on will land on your own head as soon as you try to hold them to their promise; they're not centralizing in order to help you, contrary to whatever comes out of their mouths.

Holy CRAP!

[gotexan]

My Dad (R.W. Royall) made a Slashdot story?!?! Not to mention Wired news. That's awesome! If only it weren't a bit of a bash piece. I'll have to ask why no radio station. Sup with that Pops?

Re:Holy CRAP!

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're dad is an asshole, especially towards the victims of a horrible tragedy. Glad you're proud. I know I'm jealous of you.

I'd hate to see one of those "evil looters" get their hands on some firearms when he comes by to do whatever he does (oh wait.. he's probably one of those governmental bureaucratic pencil-pusher types who probably has no idea what the impact of his decisions are in the real world).

Re:Holy CRAP!

[dhufford]

That was overly harsh. I don't care what my father did. I don't care if he murdered the pope. I'll be damned if I let someone call my father an asshole. That's family. That type of statement would require a thourough beatdown.

Re:Holy CRAP!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your father is an asshole.

Come and give me a "beatdown" and you'll meet the pavement and the barrel of my shotgun.

Re:black people

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

>What part of "The local government must call for federal aid before federal arrives." don't you understand? The mayor of New York called almost immediately for federal aid.

The part where it contradicts the National Response Plan. By the time you get to the second page it talks about "proactive" Federal responses to rare, mass-casualty events.

>George Bush had been trying to get the local government to declare a need for federal assistance.

I can't find a cite for this offhand but I did read that Governor Bianco (yes, she has a name, even if she is a Democrat) requested Federal troops on August 26 and a Federal state of emergency on August 27.

>If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about just keep your damn partisan bullshit to yourself!

Well, we can agree on that point.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[d34thm0nk3y]

A rag-tag group of washed up hippies cannot be alowed to over-ride federal control or military control.

The federal government and the military are not supposed to control the press. If you want to debate their percieved bias feel free to set up your own staion. Don't forget to get your license first.

Common misconception.

[hackwrench]

It is a common misconception that the Bill of Rights grants rights. It is actually a non-exclusive list of rights people should already be in possession of, which is why there was so much debate over whether or not to include a "Bill of Rights" in the first place. John Roberts appears to share this common misconception, which is a real good reason not to support him as a Supreme Court Justice, much less the Chief Justice.

Re:Common misconception.

[Impotent_Emperor]

I've heard that due to wording of most of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights that those restrictions really only applied to the federal government. State governments could pass laws against certain types of speech. They could establish a religion. This wasn't changed until the 15th Amendment. And that was created in response to Southern States denying the right to vote and other liberties (such as owning guns) to blacks.

Re:Common misconception.

[hackwrench]

That's not true. You don't understand the Bill of Rights at all. They aren't restrictions. State governments could not legitimately pass such laws and it had nothing to do with the Constitution. Sure they passed amendments to clarify the matter, but they did not change the legality of the situation.

Racism and "refugees"/evacuees and respect for Ame

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

Speaking of racism, the use of the term refugee is offensive, inaccurate, and racist.

If they were mostly white, everyone would be calling them EVACUEES, not refugees, which has negative connotations.

People had and have respect for the September 11 victims, both those who survived and did not.

Many people fail to extend that same respect to the New Orleans evacuees, and I believe a lot of that is because they are mostly Black. Which also figures into why things were done slowly and so little is still being done. They wouldn't warehouse rich white people in a place like the Superdome you can be assured of that.

If NOLA was mostly white, people would be settled in comfortable places around the country within 24 to 48 hours of evacuating the city.

Who am I kidding - if NOLA was mostly white the city would still be dry - the politicians wouldn't have said NO to upgrading the leeves.

They KNEW anything above a Category 3 storm would do severe damage. They KNEW that had Ivan hit NOLA the disaster would have come then - they IGNORED the warning - then Katrina came YEARS later.

They ignored the warning. They took forever to act. They took inappropriate actions (Superdome) and they refused and refuse to take command of the situation. They refused to use public transit and school buses to get people out. Etc. Etc.

If the Democrats can find someone reasonable to have run in 2008 they very well may win. Of course, putting up Kerry in 2004 was stupid. They picked the WORST person for that, except maybe Howard Dean.

Sam Nunn would be a good choice.

WIKI, Torrents...

[technix4beos]

In related news, the Interdictor group is still doing its thing, transcribing the FEMA feeds into text.

Please visit the WIKI here:
http://wiki.nola-intel.org/

Torrents provided here:
http://wiki.nola-intel.org/index.php?title=Audio_a rchives

Another view of why the radio station was denied..

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't have time to fact check this article, but it sure was an interesting read. And many of the facts seem to jive with the other articles noted here.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0537,ferguson,677 01,2.html

Re:It's all about....Indymedia

[markdowling]

Not on Bush/GOP Christmas card list.

Re:black people

[zymano]

New Orleans mayor didn't help out when he didn't use all those school buses which are now underwater to evacuate. The local and state people are the idiots and should take majority blame. The city is under sea level so you would think they would be prepared. Some of those people didn't even care. Good one Fats Domino , you stupid sack of shit.

FUD

[michaelhood]

Since its founding in 1979, the Federal Emergency Management Agency's (FEMA) mission has been clear

Re:FUD

[Marxist Hacker 42]

More the renaming of the angency in 1979- it had been in existance since the original Congressional Act of 1803 providing assistance to a small New Hampshire town that had burned down from lightning.

Governor Bianco's request, URL

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

George Bush had been trying to get the local government to declare a need for federal assistance.

Here's Governor Bianco's formal request for Federal assistance. It specfically asks

Pursuant to 44 CFR 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

If you look at the top, you notice it's from August 27.

The things to ask yourself are

• Who told me that the local authorities didn't ask for help?
• What were their motives?
• How did they fool me into trusting them?
• What critical thinking skills will I cultivate in order to avoid getting tricked again?

Re:Governor Bianco's request, URL

[ksheff]

She's asking for money, not troops. Several states didn't get the requests for help from their National Guard units until the Wednesday after the hurricane hit.

Slashdot shouldn't be giving this any attention...

[midnighttoadstool]

The final reason given for the denial sounds very sensible.

It may seem like a good idea, in the first few seconds, but providing a radio service of this sort in the case of a large-scale crisis is a medium term strategy, with plenty of need of coordination. The denial of the license in the short term isn't really surprising, isn't really news, and isn't really interesting.

In any case, as far as i can tell, from a long way away, the people who wanted the info would not have been able to get it from a source of this sort; it's not just the transmitter that needed batteries.

And there are lots of other problems with providing such a service. I doubt one single life was lost due to this broadcat denial (I can even see it going the otherway, particularly if the service were in the wrong hands, a possibility that the "lower down administrator" must have been acutely aware of).

The unwise slashdotter who promoted this feeble article into existence needs to self->terminate(weapon=revoltingSelfRighteousnessJ udgementalism).

No reason?

[kreyg]

...the JIC couldn't see a use for the radio station...

Curious. I thought in a free country, "because I want to" was sufficient reason to be allowed to do anything, provided it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. Not to speak of something that might be potentially beneficial. Sigh.

it's the two

[Anonymous Coward]

cooperating criminal cartels that have hijacked governments all over. No place in any constitution does it give total control of government to two political parties, but it sure as heck is set up that way now. They play act as being opposites in public, in private they just divvy up the spoils and run government as a fatcat easy jobs program service. Wouldn't bother me at all if an asteroid hit inside the beltway.

And to any people still voting for either of those gangs--why? Really, why? How many clues do you really need to see the system is so far corrupt that it is a total disaster? How many generations will it take to bingo to the fact that it's gone to despotism and incompetence? Isn't that a rather stupid and dangerous combination to keep supporting? How many 2 and 4 year voting cycles do you need to go through before you notice that NOTHING CHANGES? And working for them, "following orders"?? Double why? Don't you have any sense of deceny left, is a paycheck all that important? You can't be part of those gangs without compromising yourself, no matter how well intentioned or honest you might personally be, the system and your bosses are crooks, liars, thieves, murderers and general scumbags. And that is when they are being nice.

Get a real honest job, they are still out there. The system will not change as long as people support it. That is reality.

Jumbotrons

[kd5ujz]

Working as a volunteer in Corpus Christi, Tx ( American Bank Center) everyone was glued to their hand held radios........Untill they turned the Jumbotron to CNN. There were few listening to radios after that. Things may be differint at the astro dome, and on a larger scale, but I think people would rather watch CNN/MSNBC/FOX/ETC.

tractor trailers

[zogger]

tractor trailers could have done it, along with emergency trainloads, at least a shuttle to get them out of the immediate disaster area.

Here's a theoretical choice-stay in area about to get massive flooded, or ride out in a big trailer or on a boxcar. Give people the choice, let them decide. Big cities all over get 50 to 100,000 people in and out of sports stadiums all the time. In an emergency, you don't need a comfy padded seat, floor space is good enough, people all over the third and second world ride rough like that daily as a matter of course, sitting on the tops of busses or trains, etc. It's an option at least that wasn't used.

You're getting there.

[Anonymous Coward]

Replace

cooperating criminal cartels that have hijacked governments

with

all governments are, were, always were, and always will be nothing other than criminal cartels

and start again.

Re:What is required for me to do this? (FM station

[user32.ExitWindowsEx]

www.apple.com/ipod/

www.griffintechnology.com/products/itrip/

your very own low-power fm station...

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[dangitman]

Say, "hey FEMA, *YOU* people need to set up a radio station because X Y and Z cannot happen until you do".

The problem is, that FEMA is incapable of setting up such a thing. They are a bunch of bureaucrats. Do you think they could possibly set up a radio station that comforted the refugees?

It would take weeks of focus groups and bullshit, before they came up with some kind of corporate logo for their radio station:

Poochy, the FEMA Dog wants you to be safe! Don't be a loser, stay off drugs and hip-hop music. Go to school, nigger, and God will bless you with supplies.

FEMA is utterly incapable of understanding the situation or the survivors. A community-based radio station can deliver some for of comfort, entertainment and information that would help the situation and prevent unrest. Why would you let the people who are capable of providing this now in favor of a bunch of bureacrats who don't know their ass from their elbow?

Would you want to listen to a radio show produced by fucking FEMA??

Re:Insightful!

[EnderWiggnz]

freedom of the press.

freedom of speech.

these american citizens have every right to set up their own radio station.

Re:You can't do that

[Thomas Shaddack]

They still need to distribute the receivers in the dome, which the bureaucrats could prevent.

That is an important factor. However, as it looks, they have plenty of time to trickle-flow the radios in.

There is also the chance of causing administrative chaos when somebody allows shipping the devices in, and before it turns out that there is a missing signature or a proper one but on a wrong form, it is too late to undo. Large systems with too many people are highly vulnerable to social engineering. If it is made to look as a genuine mistake on the bureaucrats' side, there could even be nobody left to go after. They did enough screwups that ended up in not helping the people, so why not maneuver them into one that will force them to provide help against their will.

Maybe it won't work. But it could be worth to at least think about it.

Bureaucracy, like every system, has an inherent potential to be hacked. Just do not give up the hope.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[Halvy]

..They will be the final arbiters of what can and cannot happen..

No, 'The People' are the final arbiters..

And 'WE', The Voters, SAY!!..

Trace your InterNet Providers #..

Hunt you down..like the animal you are..

And bring you to justice..

To set an example of what happens to 'Government-mouth- pieces-of-crap', like you...

When they encourge crimes by the U.S. government, against it's people. :)

Re:You can't do that

[Kinetix303]

Wouldn't the army have something less than pleasant to say about that?

Re:black people

[MindDelay]

how is this modded off topic? it's the truth and the reason why nothing is going right down there. he could care less about the poor, black people that live there and probably won't step in to say they should be allowed access to information like everyone else with the radio.

try here

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/

Re:black people

[ksheff]

Blanco is asking for money in that letter, not troops. I guess you ignored this portion of that same story:

Maj. Gen. Thomas Cutler, who leads the Michigan National Guard, said he anticipated a call for police units and started preparing them, but couldn't go until states in the hurricane zone asked them to come.

"We could have had people on the road Tuesday," Cutler said. "We have to wait and respond to their need."

The Michigan National Guard was asked for military police by Mississippi late Tuesday and by Louisiana officials late Wednesday. The state sent 182 MPs to Mississippi on Friday and had 242 headed to Louisiana on Saturday.

This is a better story for some of the reasons behind the delays. Best quote of the article: "Nobody told me that I had to request that," - Kathleen Babineaux Blanco

Re:Not so FUD

[tieke]

Let's not be so hasty: "FEMA can trace its beginnings to the Congressional Act of 1803. This act, generally considered the first piece of disaster legislation, provided assistance to a New Hampshire town following an extensive fire. In the century that followed, ad hoc legislation was passed more than 100 times in response to hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and other natural disasters." http://www.fema.gov/about/history.shtm

geekoid, you are a liar.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have never seen any government employee* do anything corrupt, not once. (*as opposed to elected official)

Get your head out of the sand. I just found this journalist complaining of a lurker moderator modding troll a video-reel of someone in Oregon performing a Citizens Arrest (videos) on a corrupt (false judge) "executive adminitrator." But that's ok for people like you, when FACTS ARE NOT AN ISSUE (.wmv video). You wouldn't know "government" from "Government", until "Government" bit you in the ass for excerting your government onto Government. Think of "Government" as the name of that --oh, say that one guy that will never show you his true name if none but OFFICER DOE, and doesn't care what you think because he is safe and secure proper. I count Slashdot moderators as exerting government.

where will

[ruiner5000]

everyone get radios? are they handing out 10,000? clearly you have not been to the astrodome. they have a more than loud enough pa system to get over 60,000 people to hear something. not to mention huge scoreboards, and a few huge led screens they can announce things on. how will they charge the radios? will they have 10,000 outlets to use? we have a hard enough time getting 1000+ for a 500 seat lan party in a convention center that was made with a lot of outlets. the dome doesn't have plugs in the middle of the field. that sort of gets in the way. i never saw an astro or an oiler stop mid game, and plug in a walkman. guess what, the pain in the ass of getting the radios to everyone, and keeping them charged is enourmous. how bout we set up hdtv broadcasts in the astrodome. i mean come on, everyone brought hd tvs with them right? think about the actual problem before you start blasting texas officiala, and dome officials that have been kicking ass helping all of these people.

So - FUCK 'EM!!!!

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Seriously - DON'T ask permission! Just make the station and broadcast important information for your audience.

One thing I learned a LONG time ago is: it's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. NEVER ask permission. Just go and do what yo u have to do. If some one doesn't like it, then OH WELL - deal with it.

ANd when you're in a completely INSANE situation, like Nawlinz, I am QUITE certain tha the FCC will NOT be monitoring the situation. And if they are, and shut you down, the political reprecussions would FAR out weigh whatever limited gain these ass-munching freaks would benefit from shutting your ass down.

RS

Re:So - FUCK 'EM!!!!

[dbIII]

it's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission

That's a good point - the people blocking this most likely do not have the authority to do so, but will block it and ask for forgiveness from their bosses later, and most likely get it.

On the other hand, setting up a radio station when authorities who command troops with automatic weapons have forbidden you to do so is not a good idea - I'm sure no blood would be shed but the people taking you away would be armed and the threat would be there as you are removed from the premises.

People will lose their jobs later depending on what information is disseminated, and they care more about that than the possible benefit to others of a radio station on their premises that they do not control.

Re:So - FUCK 'EM!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This needs modding up +5 "the nub of it"

"NEVER ask permission. Just go and do what yo u have to do"

_Have_ to do being the operative word. I'm not bashing Americans here but I think they are generally overcompliant and have too much fear and appeal to authority. If this crew had any ziz they would have had their transmitter up and working before anybody even thought whether a licence was needed or not. The fact that anybody even considered the licence demonstrates hopelessly narrowed inhibited thinking. The idea that some fear government agents with weapons and wouldn't be prepared to defend a lifesaving emergency installation with force makes me think you're all cowards.

Americans - when the shit hits the fan your government is NOT going to be there for you. Don't look up to daddy for a helping hand, take control of your own situation and act.

What are YOU doing to help? Selfish, my ass.

[dangitman]

You might want to look up the word "refugee." It does not mean what you think it does. I would really appreciate if you told me where you heard that "refugee" only applies to those escaping political persecution. That seems to be a uniquely modern and partisan perversion of the word.

Refugees seek refuge. Pretty obvious if you know anything about the English language. But, when you are calling efforts to help suffering people "selfish," then I guess perversion of the language is the least of your concerns. You might want to check your humanity quotient first.

Re:You can't do that

[1u3hr]

hey have plenty of time to trickle-flow the radios in.

I've been looking at some photos from the statium, they appear to be doing a patdown search of everyone who enters. So they could give them to people outside, but coudn't sneak boxes of them in.

Who is after "Information Control"?

[mi]

Unlike New York City and New York State, the City of New Orleans and the State of Lousiana are run by the Democrats -- and have been ever since the Whigs Party vanished.

So the usual choice of people to blame for authoritarianship does not apply...

New Orleans sure is a peculiar city -- in the worst sence of the word. Shooting at the evucation helicopters? Compared to that, some amount of red tape is truly a non-issue...

Whoa there, hoss ...

[beer_maker]

Turning to /.'s favorite source ...

A refugee is a person seeking asylum in a foreign country in order to escape persecution. Some regional legal instruments further include those seeking to escape generalized violence in the definition of a refugee. Those who seek refugee status are sometimes known as asylum seekers and the practice of accepting such refugees is that of offering political asylum. The most common asylum claims to industrialized countries are based upon political and religious grounds.

They also note the usage you refer to above ... but do not seem to agree.

This article is for the group of people as defined by international law. For the description of "refugee" as casually used for any person who has been forced to leave their home, see displaced person.

You might want to check your fondness for ad hominem attacks first. Regardless, I wish the hurricane & flood survivors the best of luck with the media scrutiny they are getting. I rode out Hurricane Iniki (back in '92), and helped my folks rebuild afterwards, and I still remember those frickin video-vultures lining up their shots of devastated houses and families just so they could get 15 more seconds on the national news. F'em all ...

Maybe this "Refugee Radio - KAMP" would have been the best thing ever ... but how many people in the 'Dome even have radios now? Anybody got a number?

Re:Whoa there, hoss ...

[dangitman]

I'm supposed to believe "wikipedia" over the Oxford English dictionary?

Re:Racism and "refugees"/evacuees

[OpenGLFan]

I don't think the terms are racially motivated.

Refugees are, quite literally, "ones who take refuge." As in, from a storm. The people who survived this disaster are quite literally taking refuge. Evacuees are people who are evacuated. First, in most cases these people had to get themselves out -- for some reason "evacuees" has the connotation that someone got you out, where "refugees" has the connotation that you left under your own power.

Secondly, "evacuee", besides being a more cumbersome word with all those vowels just crammed in there, means "one who evacuates." Evacuate has a "quick" feel to it. In a fire drill, you evacuate the building. The people standing outside are evacuees until they've stopped evacuating, at which point they become pedestrians or gawkers. You can't be an evacuee for a day unless you run very slowly and steadily, at some point you stop evacuating and take refuge.

At which point you become a refugee.

Re:black people

[blueskies]

She's asking for federal assistance which is exactly what i said.

Who cares about michigan? What about the federal ok on the New Mexico guardsmen you ignored?

This is a better story for some of the reasons behind the delays. Best quote of the article: "Nobody told me that I had to request that,

Yeah, she is talking about ACTIVE duty military troops. The pentagon was saying that wednesday and thursday they were hesitant to send active duty troops in the area for law enforcement purposes. In the same article "While combat troops can conduct relief missions without the legal authority of the Insurrection Act, Pentagon and military officials say that no active-duty forces could have been sent into the chaos of New Orleans on Wednesday or Thursday without confronting law-and-order challenges."

Wednesday and thursday is a little freaking late.

Also, are you telling me that the Administration didn't tell her that they won't send troops until she asked? You think they were waiting silently for her to say the magic words without letting her know what the magic words were?

Here is the rest of the quote you convienently left out: In an interview, she acknowledged that she did not specify what sorts of soldiers. "Nobody told me that I had to request that," Ms. Blanco said. "I thought that I had requested everything they had. We were living in a war zone by then."

Yeah, if i wanted to be an asshole i'd quote head of FEMA Brown when he said "Paula, the federal government did not even know about the Convention Center people until today (sept 1st)."

Right after Paula Zahn asks him "ZAHN: Sir, you aren't just telling me you just learned that the folks at the Convention Center didn't have food and water until today, are you? You had no idea they were completely cut off?"

But i won't do that, because maybe that miscommunication that makes Brown look like an ass isn't his fault? It's hard to believe but maybe it's not.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[RentonSentinel]

The people you endorse to replace FEMA have no credentials. I'm sorry, I'll have to defer to FEMA.

Do they have radios to listen?

[RubberDogBone]

Do these evacuees have radios to listen? I'm sure some do but enough to make this worthwhile?

I'm not knocking the idea of helping any way possible but this radio station idea reminds me of something that happened to me some years back.

Me and some pals started our own fan convention. Not important which one. I think it's still running. Anyway, one of the founders got the idea that we should have our own pirate radio station running during the convention. It was mostly an attempt to look cool -"we got our own radio station, girls will like us, or at least look in our general direction!"- mixed with simple ego.

The idea went nowhere thanks to cooler heads realizing that the convention attendees would be too busy doing other stuff instead of wandering around with walkmans.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[RentonSentinel]

You are a voter? Then you must have lost the election! ROFL!!!!!!

Actually, the military is the only thing that saved the people. And its the military who put people in orange jump suits. Not kids in their mom's basement!

Viva la revolucion! Viva la Reagan revolucion, biotch!

layoff the tardlogic, Mr. Fox News

[Scudsucker]

You want a radio station catering to the evacuees run by people who literally believe things like the Bush administration is not only responsible for the poor response[1], but is actually responsible for the hurricane itself?

Wow are you full of shit. So because some poor, black people in NO are pissed off and have crazy conspiracy theories...you DON'T want them to be more informed? What the hell kind of sense does that make? And the sentance blaming Bush for Katrina DOES NOT EXIST in that editorial you linked to.

In an emergency housing situation, the infrastructure at the facility, the facility-wide loudspeaker system, and newsletters/handouts/flyers are *more* than enough to disseminate information.

Nonsense. Two of the consistent problems in NOLA have been lack of power and lack of communications. It's going to take a lot less power to run a small radio station than it will for the loudspeakers of the entire Superdome and convention center.

even though Texas and Houston have gone completely out of their way to assist in any way possible.

Because there are more refugees than Houston and Austin can handle? Or maybe it's the fact that refugees are tired of sleeping on astrotuf.

Oh, wait, let me guess: it's not a state and local municipal responsibility, it was somehow magically a federal one?

So let me get this straight: you conservatives go on and on about the inefficiencies of "big government", but rather than having mobile federal resources available for massive disasters, you'd rather each city and state be able to handle anything that comes at them? So I can assume that you have written your state legislature demanding that they increase your taxes so your state can handle a hurricane, earthquake, or terrorist nuclear attack all by itself with no help from the federal government?

Let me guess: you were one of the people who blame Clinton for Waco and Ruby Ridge in the same breath. When you know, Ruby Ridge happened before he took office.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[EnderWiggnz]

> The people you endorse to replace FEMA have no
>credentials. I'm sorry, I'll have to defer to FEMA.

Yes, because that experience as a horse show judge obviously qualified "Brownie" to do a heckuva job in NO.

I'll take my chances with the hippies, dickwad. I've been to hippie fests, and at least they know that people need food water and shelter.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[EnderWiggnz]

you are a disgusting piece of shit. how the fuck do you sleep at night?

you're prancinc aroudn like this is some type of fucking game, and that you've "won".

yay! you're politics cause death and destruction... GOOO TEAM!!! woooo!!!!

the government failed at its main job; to keep the populace safe. it failed.

the difference is...

[Scudsucker]

or 2004 DNC (boston) where protestors were segregated to "free speech zones" locked behind a fence. under a freeway ramp. down the street from the convention center.

The difference is that the Democratic Party did this at a convention whereas for the Republicans, this kind of censorship/information control is standard policy on everything from "public" appearances by Bush (your either pro-Bush or not allowed) to photos of coffins returning from Iraq to a low power radio station in the Superdome.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[Scudsucker]

It is about a chain of command.

Just one problem with that: this is the US, not China. Censoring the press is not FEMA's job, disaster relief is. And people might not be complaining so much at the first if FEMA wasn't failing misearbly at the second.

What emergency?

[Animats]

This is is Houston. Five hundred miles from New Orleans. There's no emergency there. It's not even like Baton Rouge, whose population has doubled. Houston has a population of 5 million. Another 100,000 people isn't a massive overload on the city. Houston gets that many extra people when there's a major football game in town.

The person responsible, Bob Royall, is a assistant chief of the Harris County (Houston) fire department. That's not a high enough political position to try to pull something like this. He's probably going to get wised up over the weekend.

Re:Low-Power AM

[dbIII]

low power AM? You need *NO* license at all

They already have a licence to broadcast on FM - but have been told they are not allowed to by the group running the refugee camp. FM only radios are common and incredibly cheap.

People hate being called refugees because it has been turned into a dirty word by self-serving idiots and xenophobes, but the reality is people who need help that those who pick on the weak like to abuse.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[RentonSentinel]

nice anger! do you scream at a picture of Bush every night in your basement! ROFL!!!

I bet your mom doesn't like that...

Go back to your flea infested couch, you sick liberal. You people will tolerate anything. Child molester? You want to rehabilitate them.

But soon we'll have you all in orange jump suits.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[RentonSentinel]

Just one problem with that: FEMA wasn't censoring the press. They were preventing some whack-jobs from running a science experiment in the astrodome.

Mission accomplished!

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[RentonSentinel]

They were not controlling the press. They were keeping some kooks from running a science experiment inside the astro dome.

Re:black people

[dbIII]

that there were people in the convention center- something that the entire rest of the country knew the entire time.

Something that the rest of the world with access to a televison, radio, or newspaper knew.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[dbIII]

A rag-tag group of washed up hippies cannot be alowed to over-ride federal control or military control.

It's called living in a democracy where the government is of the people and for the people. It's called citizens doing what they can for others in a community, even if all they can do is give rescue workers cups of coffee or set up notice boards (or the radio equivalent) people can help out without asking for permission to do so.

FEMA and the uber department they now belong to do have the right to order people to stop trying to help out if they get in the way, or they don't trust them. They just can't expect us all to agree with them. In retrospect it would have been a lot better if the various agencies prepared to assist with the hurricane had just gone in instead of waiting to be told by FEMA - chaos is better than caring whose political toes you are stepping on. All we can do is keep that as a lesson for the next disaster and as an example to the world of what can go wrong.

Information Control=Entire point

[RealisticCanadian]

We've been working on the Katrina missing persons wiki, PeopleFinder and this has allowed us to see some emails from people right in the red zone. There are some people from religious organizations looking to help those kept in the donated church cabin complexes, and seeing that its a goddamn FEMA detainee camp. These people are going to be treated like cattle, like people were in WW2, in Korea, in Vietnam.... My guess is we will not see many of them ever again, if any. For one person's experience, you can go here:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html

Coral Cache: http://www.abovetopsecret.com.nyud.net:8090/forum/ fema.html

So, it comes as no surprise to me whatsoever that they are trying to keep all communications locked down. Nevermind the fack that FEMA=[pig-fucker]Cheney.

And I'd guess you'll keep on saying this...

[Lifewish]

... right up to the point that you find something you need to protest about. At which point, you'll probably discover that:

1) sometimes protest can be the only way to get your message heard, especially if the system you're protesting about doesn't like criticism.

2) not all, or even many, protesters are violent. They're just attempting to get a problem fixed either faster or in the longer term than the four-year cycle of democracy encourages.

3) the point isn't to be a nuisance, it's to draw attention to something you see as an issue.

4) that freedom is sometimes more important than cash, especially the freedom to draw attention to bad government.

5) that giving the government the power to create free speech zones will tend to result in said zones being created at the bottom of the Mariana trench, or some similarly inaccessible location.

6) that a "Free Speech Zone" is technically misnamed - it's actually a declaration that the rest of the area is a "No Free Speech Zone". If they were honest about their naming, I might actually support them in this cos I can see the point of, for example, not allowing protesters within 10 metres of someone under threat of assassination. However, the small size of the Free Speech Zones indicates that the No Free Speech Zones are being made excessively large.

7) "When a representitive of law enforcement makes it clear and in no uncertain terms that the gathering needs to dispurse and the protesters refuse to leave, regardless of the right to free-speech," how the hell are you supposed to exercise that *right* to free speech?

8) those that wish to here the protesters' message will only be able to if they know how to find the obscure area miles away from the action that said protesters are being corralled in. Which, again, rather defeats the point.

9) "These zones are in place for everyone's protection" unless you happen to be a protester with an allergy to razorwire. In which case, sucks to be you, and sucks to be ruled by a governmental system to which criticism can't be effectively applied.

Oh, and it's certainly not just liberals who feel the need to protest and picket.

Re:black people

[DavidTC]

Yes.

People talking about when who asked for what are fucking idiots. Yes, the governor did ask for aid in time, and the Feds ignored it because she didn't fill out the forms correctly or some bullshit, but that's completely irrelevant.

You see, the president can declare something a national disaster, and send in FEMA and troups, even the goddamn Army in addition to the Nat. Guard. No permission of local authorities needed, no Congresional oversight, no nothing.

Read that several times if you don't understand it. It's very very important.

It is now called 'An Event of National Importance', but the power's been around way before that, the 2004 law (That Bush's own cabinet came up with.) just combined the various national disaster, terrorist attack, and military invasion into one concept.

He can do anything for ten days, unless Congress makes him stop. I'll repeat: The president can literally take over parts of this country with the military (Not the National Guard, the whole military.) for ten days or until Congress says no. With no cooperation from the locals.

Obviously, if the local government doesn't like this, it won't coordinate that well with FEMA, but as FEMA's idea of 'coordination' is apparently 'do nothing whatsoever', that doesn't really seem important.

Jesus, people, there's a reason that FEMA was behind all the big conspiracy theories 10 years ago. The theory was that the President was going to fake a national disaster and take over certain parts of the country, because, under the law, he can. (Although, as the conspiracy theory people ignore, they're still subject to the various laws of this country and the local juridictions they're in.)

First person to mention any local response problems get a boot to the head. Yes, local governments tend to fail in national disasters. That's why we have FEMA, to come in and say 'Hey, we need you to send those resources there, and those over there', and any local failure doesn't excuse FEMA's complete and utter cockup.

Re:black people

[DavidTC]

I actually should correct myself. I said 'The power's been around way before that'. This is incorrect:

The power has always been around for military invasion. If the Japanese land in San Fransisco, or the English invade through New York, or the Omicron Persein land in Kansas, the Feds have always had the power to completely ignore any local protests and send troups into New York or California or Kansas.

It's just 'recently' has that concept been applied to national disaster. Where 'recently' means 'for decades'.

Re:Racism and "refugees"/evacuees

[DavidTC]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was wondering about the correctness of 'evacuees'. That was just weird sounding to me.

The problem isn't that they have been 'evacuated', the problem is, in fact, they have been left without a place to live, and must take refuge elsewhere.

If their problem was being evacuees, we could just put them back and solve their problem. Evacuees are just people who have exited somewhere because they were forced to.

Evacuees were what the people were who drove out were before the city was flooded. When they could not return, or after they got evacuated after staying in the city, they became refugees, people who were left without a home, money, or possessions because of some outside force.

And refugees only had negative connotations if you were an asshole anyway. Maybe instead of worrying about what these refugees are called, people should stop thinking 'refugees' are bad.

Let's not blithely let people get away with the concept that 'refugees==bad'.

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[DavidTC]

You dumbass, you don't need 'credentials' to run a radio station. You need a license from the FCC, and, guess what? They've got one.

They also, out of the goodness of their hearts, are giving away a large amount of radios. (Radios that could be tuned to any station, mind you.)

Remove Tinfoil Hats

[serutan]

Low-level administrators are usually fearful of saying YES to anything that they can't control. I don't think you have to look for a more elaborate motive than that. It just seems to go with the personality type, which I refer to as "hall monitors." They are good at carrying out decisions made by higher-ups, but when asked to authorize something on their own initiative their default response is NO.

Radio Station Construction 101

[Baricom]

So you can fit the transmitter in your hand. Can you also fit the microphones, tape/CD players, hard drive for cuts, EQ, phone hybrid, network feed receiver, headphones and (most importantly) mixer in your hand?

Sure, you could run a radio station without sound (except for your call sign), but that'd be kind of silly, don't you think? You could also wire a lone microphone or an iPod Nano to a transmitter with a 1/8" patch cable, but the sound wouldn't be terribly good, and the flexibility to react to changing conditions would kind of suck.

KAMP was scouting a location to install in the Astrodome. That strongly implies to me that they intended to actually build a decent radio station with real equipment rather than this hypothetical cell phone sized station you sorta-kinda hint at.

Now, you failed to mention my point that this is expensive. It seems to me that if they've purchased 10,000 radios for the Astrodome "residents", they probably have the funding to purchase the stuff to feed a good signal. That kind of equipment does not fit in one's hand and costs enough money that looters might just be interested in it.

And to whomever modded my grandparent post funny: I hope you weren't also laughing when you heard New Orleans was underwater.

Re:The busses were used!

[Dun Malg]

You do know the busses were used, right? Then brought back for a second run, but the water was too high at that point, and there was nobody at the pickup point.

Really. I don't think we're talking about the same buses. Can you provide a link to a more detailed explaination of how this happened? Looking here, (click katrina button, see lower left) it sure appears as though those 150+ city buses were neatly parked and put away before the flooding. I hate how the right lies about things like the busses to make other folks look bad, as if saying, "But they screwed up too!" means the administration screwed up any less.

I hate how people take any attack on incompetent officials as a partisan effort just because the fools happen to align opposite politically of their preferred target.

A hoss of a slightly different color, perhaps ...

[beer_maker]

I checked the Compact Oxford English Dictionary online, and found the following, which IMHO falls somewhere between our positions:

refugee - (noun) a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

"... or natural disaster" clearly agrees with your definition. We both missed the thrust of the definition, though ... "forced to leave their country". Nobody has been forced to leave the country, although Mexico is offering free airfare to its displaced illega^H^H^H^H^H^Hcitizens, according to today's paper.

Do you have access to the actual OED? If so, could you please post the citation, and that for 'displaced person' - I would like to see how they differ.

Regardless, I hold fast to the Wikipedia as the definitive source for /. purposes ... its transparency and timeliness alone give it greater credence in my daily life. (There is just nothing geeky about the OED ...)

BTW, if you don't tell us you're quoting the OED, how are we to take your appeal to authority seriously?

Re:black people

[ksheff]

No, the LA state emergency management officials should know the protocol for requesting troops from the Feds and other states. Apparently they didn't clue in Blanco what she needed to do to get it done. The New Mexico governor can offer all he wants. It doesn't matter until the LA state govt sends out the requests. The Michigan guardsmen were an example of resources sitting around twiddling their thumbs until the LA officials figured out what they needed to do in order to get help (hint: bitching and whining at press conferences isn't it.)

Re:FEMA was voter approved, hippie radio was not

[Scudsucker]

How is not allowing the press to even run not censorship? Moreso when radio is the purvey of the FCC, not FEMA.