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does the stuff on my cell phone seem like it should be protected by the 5th? Much of the data on my cell phone is data I wouldn't want created in the first place, and odds are it's damning enough to land me in prison regardless of whether I did the crime I'm being investigated for or not. If that unintentional byproduct of device usage is going to incriminate me, then how can I invoke the privilege? I feel like if there is a judicial body investigating me, there are places where I can invoke the 5th and draw the line, and my cell phone is one of those. These things are becoming part of us. I say, encrypt the shit out of them automatically. All of them.

AC isn't just joking. You can pretty much bag people arbitrarily, even before adding this system's scrutiny. I hope the internet has memorized Richeliu's quote by now?
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."

http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

Read "Three Felonies a Day" by Harvey Silverglate to understand the fed's rationale. The ends justify the means. After all, Capone ended up in Alcatraz for tax evasion. The book is sickening reading.

http://www.harveysilverglate.c...
http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...
http://www.amazon.com/Three-Fe...

None of this excuses the youngster's behavior.

http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

[quote]I break zero laws[/quote]
Wrong. You likely just don't know you break them.

http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

Three felonies a day. We all do it. Congress has set up a situation such that if the feds really want you they can find things to charge you with. I don't have a lot of sympathy for this particular guy, but you're right.

The most common source of that claim is the book Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent, which skeptics StackExchange isn't buying. Here's some examples from the author.

http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

yup even normal acts are felonies now a days.

http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

"If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

Yeah right.

Wow, you're a real true believer, aren't you?

So do you understand the concern here? That with parallel construction, the 4th amendment is all but violated in name. When they have a complete panopticon and know exactly what everyone is doing at all times, and in a legal system where the typical person arguably* commits 3 felonies a day, it doesn't matter if they don't publicly admit to violating privacy. And that without the basic right to privacy, democracy is all but doomed.

(*You don't have enough wealth to afford a counter-argument)

I mean, we have historical accounts for this. What happens when an intelligence agency is given this much power. Check out Hoover's COINTELPRO.

it still could just be FBI somewhat clumsily protecting its own sources and methods

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the police not presenting the evidence they have for a legal case. I don't particularly care if it makes their job harder by revealing how they spy on people.

In a free society governed by the rule of law, it is the LAW, not the capability, that is paramount.

If you think we live under the rule of law then why the fuck hasn't James Clapper being charged with perjury yet?

hope you like being arrested 3 times a day. http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

Oh uhm. Hmm ldet me see.
That's a tough one.

In today's environment, that is no protection at all, because there is always some law that can be applied that you are breaking. In fact, speculation is that the average American commits three felonies a day.

If you honestly believe that, which would be clearly unconstitutional, then you have no business working in a part of the US government which might in any way be forced to be involved in any form of enforcement of US laws. If this were true then it would make the CIA/FBI and NSA criminal organisations. That would mean that any action involving one of those organs of the state would be illegal (in the same way as AlQueda is a terrorist organisation, so merely belonging to it is a crime) and any attempt to keep an action secret would be a form of conspiracy and a crime in and of its self.

I guess, that the only way out would be if a) you didn't believe this or b) you believed that since these laws were mostly illegal your organisation would not attempt to enforce them.

There is a very clear standard for this; if you follow the law or appear to do so in all outward respects and there is no grounds for investigation against you then you have the right to privacy/secrecy. If you break the law in one way then you are subject to investigation in all ways.

In today's environment, that is no protection at all, because there is always some law that can be applied that you are breaking. In fact, speculation is that the average American commits three felonies a day.

I mostly agree with you but given the explosion of laws and regulations in the last few years, and the spying, data aggregation, and just general surveillance, many things that were assumed to be private are not.
http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...
http://thehill.com/regulation/...

We are moving toward and not away from totalitarian states. Freedom is decreasing in the world, both personally and economically.

T.H. White’s totalitarian principle: “Everything not forbidden is compulsory.”
That is why stuff like this is good, even if it may be used for bad things (just like a gun, knife, rope, car, brick, rock, club, axe, or a sharp pointy stick...).

http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

I guess you remember every single law that was being enacted huh?

Big Government shill like you is the exact reason why Hitler, Mao and Stalin came to power.

Yes -- and then there is the fact that federal code base of crimes is so vast, vague, and its implementation left up to so many agencies, that even the ABA can't count all of the crimes one can commit, most of which have no element of intent.

Estimates of the number of regulations range from 10,000 to 300,000. None of the legal groups who have studied the code have a firm number.

"There is no one in the United States over the age of 18 who cannot be indicted for some federal crime," said John Baker, a retired Louisiana State University law professor who has also tried counting the number of new federal crimes created in recent years. "That is not an exaggeration."

http://online.wsj.com/news/art...

See also: Three Felonies a Day: http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

So what would you call it when there is criminal framework that is unknowable and that punishes you even if you have no ill intent? Despotic?

Did not say it was illegal, in fact they can take EVERYTHING you have for any reason. Every single US citizen is a felon. In fact you probably committed at least 3 felonies just today.

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

And I am not saying he is innocent, He's a scumbag. but they can legally do anything they want to him. They can even torture him or imprison him forever without a trial if they wanted to. It's very easy to make the small step to "enemy combatant"

Once again, Slashdot demonstrates that they are largely the same as every other group of wingnuts with their pet interest (Slashdot's being Internet/tech and often intersecting topics). You'll defend it to the hills, hypothesize about chilling effects on liberty, have Internet arguments until your fingers bleed and claim that it's important to everybody (or that it should be) Yet, when taken outside of your box, suddenly you become the same as every other idiot group demanding to sell your liberty to buy some safety.

"But it's illegal!"

Yeah, so? I thought most of us were above such petulant arguments. The CFAA practically makes surfing the web illegal and you already commit three felonies a day.

Look: just because you're a clumsy, uncoordinated, risk-averting, thrill-fearing nerd doesn't mean everyone else is. I like you guys, but when it comes to any story involving cars or driving, you show your true colors and disappoint me.

Because you most definitely did not read the article (on Slashdot? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!), I'll give you the cliff's notes. This wasn't just some unskilled lunatic pushing down the "go faster" pedal in a pickup truck, this guy is a dedicated enthusiast who spent a year and a half preparing, installing additional equipment to ensure his high-performance vehicle would be up the task, finding co and lead drivers to avoid traffic and construction zones and spending almost ten grand on maintenance. I doubt many of us have spent much more than that on an entire car.

Since Slashdot is a mainly US site, you could be forgiven for thinking that all cars are shitbuckets that spontaneously explode the second they breach 70mph. Car manufacturers from places that aren't 'Muricuh actually rework an entire vehicle -- chassis, suspension, brakes, anything that's necessary to handle additional power, and more -- when they soup up an engine because they're not for redneck motor "sports."

The car he was driving is a very German, very expensive and very performance-oriented Mercedes Benz. This is a vehicle designed to be very stable and manageable at much higher speeds than anything you've likely driven. Since I have, let me tell you what it's like: highway speed feels like walking pace. Cars like this barely need to make an effort to reach and maintain it. Even at double the speed, it's still hardly trying -- it hardly needs to. By comparison, a Ford Mustang, for example, feels pretty damn scary at half of highway speed because it's chassis, suspension and brakes are shit. Same factor, different hardware. Think of how a low-grade ARM processor would perform benchmarking AES calculation versus an i7 with an AES instruction set. Same factor, different hardware.

To everyone calling for extreme traffic laws and enforcement, try coming to Canada and see how you like it. BC is downright condescending and oppressive, Manitoba is not far behind, Ontario... I don't even want to know. In many places here, they take away your license, pile on debt for decades and destroy your life for the horrific act of ... uh, your tires chirped. I shit you not, this happens.

Oh, and I haven't even told you how many provinces have government-run insurance monopolies ("crown corporations") who are in bed with the cops. Just the other day, there was story in the paper praising how my province's auto insurance provider paid for the local police department's overtime to nail drivers doing barely over the limit. This is not an expenditure for the company, this is an investment: pay some overtime wages now, get the kickbacks in ticket amounts, obscene licensing costs and insurance rates for years to come. Yet, no one will write in to point out this blatant corruption because OMG!! Safety!!

Still not convinced? Look up "MPI VIU." This is the (government-run) insurance company colluding with the cops to

"It really feels as if the government is getting desparate to find boogymens for everything."

Not to play conspiracy theorist or anything, but history says this is (really) TYPICAL tyrannical-government strategy.

* Label things as far worse than they actually are, as long as it's only citizens being labeled.

* Label things far better than they actually are, when it's government behavior, not citizens.

* Make everything illegal. When everybody is a criminal, then you can enforce the laws arbitrarily and only against those you don't like.

(Think that is a joke? YOU are probably a felon already, many times over, and didn't even know it.)

---

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

This is what they are doing here. Trying to find dirt in everyone, so that when they want to get you, they've got a so-called valid "probable cause" for doing so. --- sez paranoid me. ;>)

Here, this book will help you feed that (rational) paranoia:
http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

You can also visit their website for some interesting examples:

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

. The best way to ensure you're not looking at jail time, long or short, is not to commit felony offences in the first place.

You can be jailed for a misdemeanor, and people frequently are. Aside from that, not committing a felony is harder then you think since the proverbial citizen commits three felonies a day .

Some examples can be found here:

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

This is just a few among many many more. Even if none of them apply to you, some other certainly will. The restaurant example is specially scary.

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/

There is a bill before the California state legislature right now that would make it a crime to offer, in a public location, to sell a dog or cat. (No actual animal need be present.) "Hey Joe," you tell your huntin' buddy as you walk from the parking lot into the bar, "my dog had pups. Still want to buy one?" Under this bill, you've just committed a crime. The penalty? Up to $20,000 fine and one year in jail.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0901-0950/sb_917_bill_20110218_introduced.html

Where is the outcry over this absurdity?

http://threefeloniesaday.com/

It's amazing the crap that's actually illegal...

Arrest as many people as possible until nearly everyone is forced to wear one of these. Given estimates that the average person unknowingly commits several technical federal crimes a day, it shouldn't be long.