Domain: toyota.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to toyota.com.
Comments · 249
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Re:Umm..... right.
It's not selling that well as yet (relative to normal cars) but is at least quite practical.
Well, we had to wait 3 months for ours and our friends waited 5 months. In it's first 6 months in the US it sold 2x more than Honda Insight did over 12 months. They've throttled production but that's about to change. I've heard that Toyota has something like 4 hybrids instore for sale next year. Even with throttled production, they sold 100,000 cars as of last August 02'. Essentially, 2 years of worldwide( US/Canada ) sales.
LoB
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Toyota is selling a limited number of RAV4 EVs
See this page to reserve one. You gotta be in California to qualify
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since you're in California
You could take a look at the Rav4 EV, as well. We got to play with one a bit at a fair in Santa Monica last year, and they're really pretty impressive, and a sight bigger than the Prius as well.
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Sure they're funny-lookin'...
...but it's best to keep it simple. Try a Toyota Echo. 30-40 mpg and it runs on gas so there's no huge batteries to go sour one day and have to be chucked and pollute the environment.
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Re:Rav4 EV
Actually, there is a bit more information on the website here. The Rav4 EV has a top speed of 78 mph and a range of 126 miles. It's a bit pricey, though: over $40,000. There is a $9000 rebate, though, and the home charging station is included in that price tag (but I imagine you already have one of those for your EV-1).
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So many cars
Just a note ahead of time. Some of the cars listed below are only available in certain parts of California and are only available in relatively low numbers.
Pure Electric:
2002 The Nissan Altra EV (pilot?)
2002 Ford Thi!nk City
2002 Toyota Rav4-EV
2002 Lido Motors Lido
2002 Ford Ranger EV (fleet only?)
2002 Nissan HyperMini (pilot only?)
Selectria Force (out of production?)
Hybrids:
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
2002 Honda Insight
2002 Toyota Prius
Web Sites of Interest:
EV World
US DoE Alternative Fuel Car Buying Guide (many listed)
US DoE Alternative Fuel Vehicle Listing (many listed)
California ZEV Buyers Guide -
So many cars
Just a note ahead of time. Some of the cars listed below are only available in certain parts of California and are only available in relatively low numbers.
Pure Electric:
2002 The Nissan Altra EV (pilot?)
2002 Ford Thi!nk City
2002 Toyota Rav4-EV
2002 Lido Motors Lido
2002 Ford Ranger EV (fleet only?)
2002 Nissan HyperMini (pilot only?)
Selectria Force (out of production?)
Hybrids:
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
2002 Honda Insight
2002 Toyota Prius
Web Sites of Interest:
EV World
US DoE Alternative Fuel Car Buying Guide (many listed)
US DoE Alternative Fuel Vehicle Listing (many listed)
California ZEV Buyers Guide -
Rav4 EV
Since you're already used to electric vehicles, have you considered the Rav4 EV? The website is not very informative, and apparently the car is only available in California.
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Several options for youHere are some links for you:
Toyota RA4 EV - yes it's an SUV but the NiMH batteries are supposed to last 100,000 miles, maintenance free; and it gets 126 miles to the charge; and it has all the creature comforts. I think it's kindof ironic all this high-tech stuff is being put in an SUV. Just think how much better the range would be if they'd put the same powertrain in a sports car with good drag coefficient and low frontal area. But, as far as I can tell this is the best new EV that you can actually buy right now. Only in California, unfortunately. I presume for charging it uses the GM paddle system like your EV1 but haven't confirmed that.
You could just get a used one on ebay; I was very tempted to bid on this but decided to wait on an electric for now. Here's an electric S10 pickup. I test drove one of these once; it's a lot like an EV1, same technology in a pickup. Supposedly you can buy these in California too, but I'm not sure whether new or used. Otherwise they tend to show up as surplus from electric-company fleet programs now and then.
How has your service from GM been? I was tempted to buy one of these S10s but I figured GM has been acting like they want to forget that they ever had electric cars, so what are the chances of getting good service 5 or 10 years from now? And these things are too complicated to fix yourself, probably. Whatcha gonna do if the inverter fails? AC drives are not common in conversion EVs, and tend to be rather pricey.
Finally, if you're not on the EV mailing list, you should be. You will get a ton of good advice there; most of the subscribers are hard-core electric vehicle hobbyists who build their own conversions at home.
And congratulations on having a brain and being willing to put up with all the stupid naysayers out there, or the ones who keep repeating the same tired old objections about powerplants using fossil fuels (nevermind that they do it so much more efficiently than even the best IC engine) or "why don't you connect a generator to the wheels and make your own electricity." I'm always surprised how otherwise seemingly-smart people will laugh at you when you mention something about electric vehicles. Every new technology has to have its pioneers. And in the long term the earth isn't giving us much choice about switching away from fossil fuels anyway. This is why I do not advocate hybrid vehicles. You can conserve gas with those, but I think in any conceivable future there will always be some alternative way to generate electricity, so maybe electric cars are here to stay in one form or another.
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Toyota RAV4-EV
If you are in California, an area that was leasing EV-1's, then you can probably also find Toyota RAV4-EV's as well (I'm not so lucky).
The RAV4 is listed with a top speed of 78 mph and an average range of 126 miles per charge (although I've read a few people stating 140 - YMMV).
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Toyota Fuel Cell Vehicles
Toyota is currently working on a Fuel Cell-Electric Hybrid (FCHV) SUV.
It is based on the Highlander and will be similar to the Prius.
The main difference being that it will use a fuel cell along with the electric motor instead of a traditional combustion enigine.
You can read the news brief here -
two more carsi'm in the process of purchasing a Prius myself, but in the interest of being informative, two more vehicles are:
- Toyota RAV4 EV electric, zero-emission SUV
- Honda Civic Hybrid hybird ULEV (unlike the Prius and Insight, which are SULEVs)
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Not entirely correct.
The most fuel efficient car you can get in the US is still the Hybrid Electric Honda Insight. I have about 63 mpg average over the two years that I've had mine.
My Hybrid Electric Toyota Prius only gets 48 mpg on average, but it's a five-seater (two adults, two kids, one pet) as opposed to your two-seater Honda.
So if you are calculating based on carrying capacity you are incorrect, the Honda isn't the most fuel efficient.
If you are just going by mpg without any other caveats, the Solectrica and EV-1 have you beat because they are pure electrics and use no gas.
On the other hand, Honda's new hybrid (based on the same technology) will probably be an even better family car than the Prius because of Honda's excellent CVCC gas engine technology. Go Honda! -
Ugly eco-friendly cars
I'm currently in the market for a small car to use mainly for commuting to and from work, mostly highway driving. No public transportation system nearby, and a small motorcycle isn't pratical in Ohio. I looked into some of the so-called "eco-friendly" cars that are available today, but was turned-off by how ugly most of these are. So far I've found the Toyota Prius, Toyota RAV4-EV, Honda Civic Hybrid, and the Honda Insight. I understand that optimizing aerodynamics is important for efficient energy usage, but a few of these cars would be decent looking cars with a few minor changes. The Insight is very CRX-like if they got rid of the wheel covers, the Civic Hybrid looks very similar to the standard Civic except for the odd colors, the RAV4-EV uses an old body style rather than the sleek body of the r-estyled standard RAV4, and the Prius has a pretty decent style but is rather small. With only a couple thousand dollar difference between a standard small car and an "eco-friendly" model, I think there'd be increased consumer interest in these vehicles if the manufacturers focused a little more on giving these cars a more standard style that blends in a bit on the road rather than giving them an unattractive design just for the sake of making them stand out or having some space-age look to them.
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Ugly eco-friendly cars
I'm currently in the market for a small car to use mainly for commuting to and from work, mostly highway driving. No public transportation system nearby, and a small motorcycle isn't pratical in Ohio. I looked into some of the so-called "eco-friendly" cars that are available today, but was turned-off by how ugly most of these are. So far I've found the Toyota Prius, Toyota RAV4-EV, Honda Civic Hybrid, and the Honda Insight. I understand that optimizing aerodynamics is important for efficient energy usage, but a few of these cars would be decent looking cars with a few minor changes. The Insight is very CRX-like if they got rid of the wheel covers, the Civic Hybrid looks very similar to the standard Civic except for the odd colors, the RAV4-EV uses an old body style rather than the sleek body of the r-estyled standard RAV4, and the Prius has a pretty decent style but is rather small. With only a couple thousand dollar difference between a standard small car and an "eco-friendly" model, I think there'd be increased consumer interest in these vehicles if the manufacturers focused a little more on giving these cars a more standard style that blends in a bit on the road rather than giving them an unattractive design just for the sake of making them stand out or having some space-age look to them.
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Some more links for folks ...I own a Toyota Prius, and love every minute of driving it. I have been promoting hybrids at work and came up with this list of URLs about the various mass-produced "green"/alternate fuel vehicles available today. There are also some other links associated with these cars (fuel efficiency guides, etc.) I know it's not a complete list, but it's a decent representation of what's out there. Here you go
... :)- http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/prius/id
e x.html, Toyota Prius, currently available - http://civichybrid.honda.com/, Honda Civic Hybrid, due out RSN, starting to be available for test drives
- http://www.hondacars.com/models/insight/index.htm
l , Honda Insight, currently available - http://rav4ev.toyota.com/, Toyota RAV4 EV (it's not a hybrid, sorry), only available in CA currently
- http://uktoyotaestimasite.tripod.com/, Toyota Estima, hybrid minivan. Not currently scheduled for release in the US
- http://hybridford.com/, Ford Escape, SUV, planned to be available in 2003. Ford licensed the Toyota HEV system for this
- http://www.ucsusa.org/vehicles/0mapveh.html, http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/, The EPA's Clean Vehicle Guide
- http://carpoint.msn.com/browse/win_4018922.asp, http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=parser&
a ct=display&tf=/advice/bestworst/mileage/best_worst . mpl, 2002 overall fuel economy results - http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml, Vehicle fuel economy by class
- http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drive.shtml, Tips to improve your gas mileage
- http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/auto/cafe.html, http://www.ucsusa.org/vehicles/CAFE.html, Information about the CAFE standards
- http://www.greenercars.org/, The American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE)
- http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/prius/id
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Some more links for folks ...I own a Toyota Prius, and love every minute of driving it. I have been promoting hybrids at work and came up with this list of URLs about the various mass-produced "green"/alternate fuel vehicles available today. There are also some other links associated with these cars (fuel efficiency guides, etc.) I know it's not a complete list, but it's a decent representation of what's out there. Here you go
... :)- http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/prius/id
e x.html, Toyota Prius, currently available - http://civichybrid.honda.com/, Honda Civic Hybrid, due out RSN, starting to be available for test drives
- http://www.hondacars.com/models/insight/index.htm
l , Honda Insight, currently available - http://rav4ev.toyota.com/, Toyota RAV4 EV (it's not a hybrid, sorry), only available in CA currently
- http://uktoyotaestimasite.tripod.com/, Toyota Estima, hybrid minivan. Not currently scheduled for release in the US
- http://hybridford.com/, Ford Escape, SUV, planned to be available in 2003. Ford licensed the Toyota HEV system for this
- http://www.ucsusa.org/vehicles/0mapveh.html, http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/, The EPA's Clean Vehicle Guide
- http://carpoint.msn.com/browse/win_4018922.asp, http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=parser&
a ct=display&tf=/advice/bestworst/mileage/best_worst . mpl, 2002 overall fuel economy results - http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml, Vehicle fuel economy by class
- http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drive.shtml, Tips to improve your gas mileage
- http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/auto/cafe.html, http://www.ucsusa.org/vehicles/CAFE.html, Information about the CAFE standards
- http://www.greenercars.org/, The American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE)
- http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/prius/id
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Some more links for folks ...I own a Toyota Prius, and love every minute of driving it. I have been promoting hybrids at work and came up with this list of URLs about the various mass-produced "green"/alternate fuel vehicles available today. There are also some other links associated with these cars (fuel efficiency guides, etc.) I know it's not a complete list, but it's a decent representation of what's out there. Here you go
... :)- http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/prius/id
e x.html, Toyota Prius, currently available - http://civichybrid.honda.com/, Honda Civic Hybrid, due out RSN, starting to be available for test drives
- http://www.hondacars.com/models/insight/index.htm
l , Honda Insight, currently available - http://rav4ev.toyota.com/, Toyota RAV4 EV (it's not a hybrid, sorry), only available in CA currently
- http://uktoyotaestimasite.tripod.com/, Toyota Estima, hybrid minivan. Not currently scheduled for release in the US
- http://hybridford.com/, Ford Escape, SUV, planned to be available in 2003. Ford licensed the Toyota HEV system for this
- http://www.ucsusa.org/vehicles/0mapveh.html, http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/, The EPA's Clean Vehicle Guide
- http://carpoint.msn.com/browse/win_4018922.asp, http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=parser&
a ct=display&tf=/advice/bestworst/mileage/best_worst . mpl, 2002 overall fuel economy results - http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml, Vehicle fuel economy by class
- http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drive.shtml, Tips to improve your gas mileage
- http://www.ita.doc.gov/td/auto/cafe.html, http://www.ucsusa.org/vehicles/CAFE.html, Information about the CAFE standards
- http://www.greenercars.org/, The American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy (ACEEE)
- http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/prius/id
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Re:Honda Civic HybridWell, your local Toyota dealer is on crack. You can most certainly take a test drive in a Prius -- heck, the test drive I took before buying a 2001 was over an hour. Let them copy my driver's license, then took it out through backroads, on the highway, all around. Placed an order the next day. Best car available today IMNSHO.
As for custom ordering, that was how they were doing it -- You would order the car with the options you wanted off of their website. You then goto your local dealer and finalize the order by giving them a deposit. 3-4 months later (they can't build them fast enough to keep up with demand), your car would come off a boat from Japan.
They've changed their policy in the last few months, you can now just go to a dealership and they'll have a number of cars on the lot that you can look at. For instance, here's a very Prius-friendly dealership in CA that currently has 23 Prius available on the lot:
http://carsontoyota.com/priusorders.html
At last check, if you want to buy one of their cars, and you're not in CA, they'll ship it anywhere in the US -- you pay them the price of the car and shipping, then pay sales tax to the state you live in.
As for a tax break, yes, there is the $2000 deduction. It would be nice if the $2000 credit would be available too (it's not clear from the IRS whether or not the credit is allowed since the vehicle power must be provided by non-gas for more than 50% of the time...)
There are many good sites with information on the Prius, here are a couple of good ones:
The Toyota Prius Yahoo Group
The Prius homepage at Toyota
Statistical Information about my Prius, if you're interested -
Re:Honda Civic Hybrid
Toyota has had their Prius since 1997 in Japan, and 2000 in the US. Honda is just catching up (the Insight is more of a speciality car, I think -- only 2 seats, very cramped, so not as practical as the Prius or this Civic hybrid)
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Re:Could it be?
Hybrid Electric Vehicles are neat too:
Honda Insight: 61/68mpg manual, 57/56 automatic
Toyota Prius: 52/45mpg automatic
Honda Civic Hybrid: 48/47mpg manual, 46/51 automatic -
Re: Voting Green
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If I had mod points today...
... I'd mod you up!
I bought a Toyota Prius for world peace.
42 mpg this winter, should be better come summer.
--Charlie -
i thought electric was cool but
now I'm thinking hybrid gas-electric is more practical, at least until we get to fuel-cell cars. Not that it isn't great there are lots of options now, but I still think something like the Toyota Prius or the Honda Insight would work better for combined city/highway driving.
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Re:Heat issues
I wonder if the heat could be converted back to electricity, sorta like the Regenerative Braking of the Toyota Prius. It would be really nice to cool things and at the same time use (some of) that energy. Of course, that whole idea isn't new -- see Robert A. Heinlein's Shipstones from "Friday"...
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Slightly off topic - Hybrid CarsI'm dubious about fuel cells for the same reason electrics haven't caught on - the infastructure to refuel at a public "gas station" isn't there (as many
/.ers have pointed out). My wife and I have been looking at an alternative: A hybrid car.We were leaning towards Toyota's Prius, although Honda makes one too (the Insight, I believe). Can't speak for Honda, but Toyota is very serious about this, selling them cheap at about $25K (and you get to deduct $2000 on your Federal income taxes. Some states give you incentives, too). Obviously, they're hoping to make it up on market share (not like the dot-coms, I hope!) and maintenance. We test drove one and it was nice, with the pickup of a small V6, but it was uncanilly quiet -- your brain thinks you're coasting even when you're cruising or accelerating slightly. AT 50+ MPG and the tax deductions, we were hoping to come out ahead instead of maintaining our '94 Corolla.
...until our company laid my wife off. Damn recession. Still, the Prius is a pretty cool car.
;) -
Toyota
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Toyota
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Toyota Prius
There is another gas/electric hybrid from Toyota about the size of a camry. It seats five people (2 front, 3 rear) so it is a viable option for a family, as opposed to the 2seater honda Insight. Becuase of it's slightly larger size than the Insight, it gets a few mpg less, around 55-65 city or highway, depending on how ya drive it. This car was made available in japan a while ago at cost to Toyota to drum up support and word-of-mouth, and now they are selling it in the states for around $20k, maybe a little more, but again, at cost to them.
Check out Toyota's Prius website here -
Re:Will this be much better than current systems?Is this the one by Toyota? Toyota claims to have tested a highway system in SanDiego, which helps vehicles automatically maintain a safe distance from each other. Available here
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List of Gasoline/Electric HybridsCurrently available:
- Toyota Prius, Compact 4dr sedan.
- Honda Insight, Subcompact 2dr coupe.
Coming soon:
- Ford Escape, SUV, available in 2003.
- Toyota Estima, minivan, available in 2003, Japan only.
- Honda Civic, sedan, 2003?
- Dodge Durango, SUV, 2003, mentioned in this hybrid USA-Today news story.
There are a few others, but most currently sound like vaporware...
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Re:Toyota Prius
You're thinking of the Honda Insight. The Insight makes the trade of lower horsepower in exchange for 70MPG.
The gas engine *alone* on the Prius is 70hp @4,500rpm. The electric motor is 44hp @1,040rpm-5,600rpm. Gas engine + electric motor on the Prius is 114hp equivalent max.
Unlike the Insight, the Prius uses *both* for moving the car. I can accelerate quite well up steep hills. Have you ever test-driven one? Contrary to your thoughts about a car that you obviously don't own, the Prius is no slouch. In fact, most people who have gone for a ride in my car refer to it as the future of cars in general. Aside from it being exceptionally quiet, they are astounded to learn that it is a hybrid vehicle.
In addition, except for very short trips for which you should be walking or riding a bike anyway, diesels such as the Peugot 206 are more polluting. The Peugot 206 also does not pass California emmisions standards whereas the Prius exceeds them enough to qualify as a SULEV (Super Ultra-Low Emmisions Vehicle). As such, I can drive in the carpool lanes without a passenger (you get the sticker at the local CHP office).
Hell, don't take my word for it. Get it from the horse's mouth and stop spreading FUD. -
PriusI have just begun to consider replacing my bumperless rustbucket with a Prius. It's classified as a SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle), and it has a design that frees it from the infrastructure problems inherent in a non-gasoline-powered vehicle. The specs are pretty interesting (my favorite is the continuously-variable transmission), and the battery system has an 8-year/100Kmile warranty to back up what is probably the weak link in the chain.
I test-drove one about a week ago. When you pull up to an intersection it is dead quiet. It has plenty of passing power on the interstate, and good acceleration on the low-end. You can tell that you're sitting inside some difficult design compromises, but I think they did an excellent job. Has anybody else experience a Prius?
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Re:Insight Owner"The Insight's a good little car. Pity it hasn't got another 2 seats, but it's a good first generation product."
Try the new Toyoto Previa. It produces fewer emissions, too.
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Re:But can big folk get in?Well, I just happened to put up a story yesterday about the new Toyota Prius. It's our top story at the moment. The Prius is a four door, has a bigger interior, and produces even fewer harmful emissions than the Insight. I'm trying to get ahold of one to do a test drive.
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Prius Info
I talked to a toyota dealer 2 months ago about Prius, they didnt have a whole lot of info,
now they are bombarding my email... Text below is fairly recent from them:
Prius, the world's first mass-produced hybrid electric vehicle will begin
arriving in July at selected Toyota dealerships across America. This
exciting new vehicle has everyone talking. Its new hybrid engine technology
and fuel economy is less harmful to the environment and your pocket book!
With an MSRP of $20,450*, and EPA mileage estimates of 52 miles per gallon
in the city and 45 on the highway**, you'll generate savings you can brag
about.
Because Prius is in high demand and only a limited number will be available
in 2000, we've created an exclusive web site that is designed to give Prius
enthusiasts like you the chance to be among the first to own a Prius in
2000. By visiting this exclusive Purchase Request Web site between June 30th
and July 13th, you will be able to request your Prius before the general
public. On July 14th, the Web site becomes accessible to everyone.
Go to www.toyota.com/prius_sneakpreview to find out more about the Prius or
to fill out our simple Purchase Request Form. You can choose both the color
you prefer and the participating dealer of your choice. We've made the
request process an easy and unique experience.
If you want to check out all the latest news and reviews on Prius, but
aren't quite ready to reserve your own, go to the Prius web site now by
clicking on www.toyota.com/prius.
Sincerely,
Prius Marketing Team
*2000 Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price as of 04/18/2000, including
Delivery, Processing and Handling Fee. Excludes taxes, license, title and
available or regionally required equipment. The Delivery, Processing and
Handling Fee in AL, FL, GA, NC, SC, AR, LA, MS, OK and TX is $15 higher for
Trucks, Sienna and SUVs; and $30 higher for all other Toyota vehicles.
Actual dealer price may vary. Pricing, specifications, standard features and
available equipment are based on information available when this page was
produced and are subject to change without notice.
**See your Toyota dealer for details. -
Prius Info
I talked to a toyota dealer 2 months ago about Prius, they didnt have a whole lot of info,
now they are bombarding my email... Text below is fairly recent from them:
Prius, the world's first mass-produced hybrid electric vehicle will begin
arriving in July at selected Toyota dealerships across America. This
exciting new vehicle has everyone talking. Its new hybrid engine technology
and fuel economy is less harmful to the environment and your pocket book!
With an MSRP of $20,450*, and EPA mileage estimates of 52 miles per gallon
in the city and 45 on the highway**, you'll generate savings you can brag
about.
Because Prius is in high demand and only a limited number will be available
in 2000, we've created an exclusive web site that is designed to give Prius
enthusiasts like you the chance to be among the first to own a Prius in
2000. By visiting this exclusive Purchase Request Web site between June 30th
and July 13th, you will be able to request your Prius before the general
public. On July 14th, the Web site becomes accessible to everyone.
Go to www.toyota.com/prius_sneakpreview to find out more about the Prius or
to fill out our simple Purchase Request Form. You can choose both the color
you prefer and the participating dealer of your choice. We've made the
request process an easy and unique experience.
If you want to check out all the latest news and reviews on Prius, but
aren't quite ready to reserve your own, go to the Prius web site now by
clicking on www.toyota.com/prius.
Sincerely,
Prius Marketing Team
*2000 Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price as of 04/18/2000, including
Delivery, Processing and Handling Fee. Excludes taxes, license, title and
available or regionally required equipment. The Delivery, Processing and
Handling Fee in AL, FL, GA, NC, SC, AR, LA, MS, OK and TX is $15 higher for
Trucks, Sienna and SUVs; and $30 higher for all other Toyota vehicles.
Actual dealer price may vary. Pricing, specifications, standard features and
available equipment are based on information available when this page was
produced and are subject to change without notice.
**See your Toyota dealer for details. -
I just drove and ordered a Prius
Toyota's Prius is a real 4-door 5-passenger sedan with a good trunk, power accessories, air conditioning, etc. It drives great, with plenty of power on the freeway when you need it. A big color LCD touchscreen in the dash gives you a running display on what the hybrid system is doing, what your instantaneous mileage is, what it's been, etc. You even get little "bonus point" icons for every 50 watt-hours of energy you recapture on braking or coasting. EPA estimates are 52 city / 45 highway. That's right, it's more efficient in the city. You're going slower there, so why shouldn't all cars be like that? These numbers are lower than the Insight, but Prius is a much bigger car, one which could replace 90% of the SUVs, pickups and big cars most people drive without giving up anything but twisted ego-gratification. For me it will gratify my ego to be driving such a technically advanced and efficient car. Prius is also a SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle). The gas mileage translates directly into CO2 reduction, which is the main issue for me, plus other pollutants are 1/10 of normal new cars. The price is quite reasonable for that class of car, too. I put down my deposit and hope to take delivery in August. Excellent web site: Toyota Prius
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Honda Insight
If all you're looking for is a car and high miles per gallon, the Honda Insight is far from an ideal choice. Volkwagen's Golf, Jetta, and Beetle TDI's (diesel engines) all get excellent mileage, with the Golf TDI approaching the Insight's mpg average, for about $2 grand less. Plus you get a full size, four-door car (as opposed to the 2-seater Insight which is also quite cramped for luggage space). VW manages to make money on the sale of a Golf, while Honda is currently selling each Insight at a loss.
Even if you're looking at an Insight because you want the lowest emission vehicle possible short of a peddle bike, or you think that some people have to adopt the technology just to prove to other companies that it's the way to go, it might be a better idea to wait a few months Toyota's Prius electric-gas hybrid. It's a full-size sedan that's far less compromised than the Insight, with even higher mpg.
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Re:I'd do it
Most folks have a second car. Probably most families seldom need to cart around more than four people in more than two vehicles simultaneously.
So, keep the Yukon for major haulting purposes. Commute in the Prius, which is larger than the Insight and can fit four adults or possibly two adults and three children (see picture) in a pinch. It also is going for about 20.5K, and gets 48MPG combined city and highway mileage.
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Re:Probably Because...
There is no other explanation for 80+ MPG cars existing but not being marketed or alternative fuel vehicals existing but not being properly marketed, if at all.
Sure there is: Marginal cost to the consumer.
The US government and the Big 2.5 (Ford, General Motors, and the German subsidiary formerly known as Chrysler) have been collaborating on something called PNGV, the Partnership for the Next Generation of Vehicles (or something like that). The goal is for all three companies to eventually develop production cars that can acheive 80MPG, while matching the performance and capabilities of existing popular cars. The baseline models were, IIRC, Ford Taurus, Chevy Lumina, and Chrysler Concorde.
Check out this page on DaimlerChrysler's Dodge ESX3 concept. It's the third generation of their PNGV concept, which has typically previewed the next generation Dodge Intrepid. The first ESX was introduced in 1996. It would have retailed for about US$80,000, 4x the cost of an Intrepid. The '98 ESX2 lowered the price to about $US35,000, and the new ESX3 lowers it even more, to about US$27,500. Not unreasonable compared to the market in general, but that's still around US$7,000 more than a typical 2000 Intrepid.
Collectively, we Americans will not pay significantly more for environment-friendly options on our cars, unless there's a real fuel crisis to force us to. Nor will we sacrifice power for efficiency. Hybrids like Honda Insight or Toyota Prius are sold at a loss, in the hopes that they'll make enough inroads to justify future development. They make good city cars, but we won't buy city cars if we think we'll ever need to pull on to a freeway. We want to have our cake and eat it too.
Every day we're standing in a wind tunnel
Facing down the future coming fast - Rush -
High mileage vehicles & alternative energy sourcesThere are also other high-mileage vehicles out there. I'm waiting for the Toyota Prius to be released here in the U.S. before I decide on the new car I'm about to buy.
Yes, it's still primarily petrol-powered, but I live in an area where malls don't have electric vehicle recharge stations, and where the nearest public-accessible CNG refuel station is 40 miles away. If the car runs decently, I'll probably buy it on principle.
When you move the discussion to alternate forms of energy in general, I've been doing a bit of reading (Energyland, Home Power Magazine, and Solar Design Associates) because of my wife's and my plans to build a house sometime in the not to distant future.
It seems that solar is technologically more viable than I expected. Even up here in un-sunny New England, there are some people living comfortable lives either off the electric grid, or connected to the grid only as a backup/secondary power source.
I don't see solar becoming mass-market in the current economic environment, mind you. In the U.S., the cost per kWh for electricity from the national grid is still far cheaper than going solar.
However, if a few more people answered to their consciences in addition to their bank accounts, perhaps we would see a few more of the recent crop of McMansions sprouting solar panels.
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hybrid gasoline-electric cars
Since it's likely to be a long time before the gasoline infrastructure goes away, I recommend looking at hybrid gasoline-electric cars. These cars run entirely on regular gasoline; they don't need to be hooked up to an external electric system. They store up extra energy (that a regular car wastes) in batteries, and use this energy later to save gasoline. These cars have the range of a regular car, unlike pure electric vehicles.
Two commericially available hybrid cars are the Honda Insight, and the Toyoto Pruis.
If you get one of these cars, you'll save a fortune on gas while helping to preserve the environment.
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hybrid gasoline-electric cars
Since it's likely to be a long time before the gasoline infrastructure goes away, I recommend looking at hybrid gasoline-electric cars. These cars run entirely on regular gasoline; they don't need to be hooked up to an external electric system. They store up extra energy (that a regular car wastes) in batteries, and use this energy later to save gasoline. These cars have the range of a regular car, unlike pure electric vehicles.
Two commericially available hybrid cars are the Honda Insight, and the Toyoto Pruis.
If you get one of these cars, you'll save a fortune on gas while helping to preserve the environment.
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Re:Alternative choices won't make it anytime soon.
Honda has that new car (the Prius?) that gets ~60-70 MPG, and Toyota is going to start shipping a similar car.
Actually, the Prius is from Toyota, and Honda is soon coming out with a similar one.
The prius is really cool. It's got a small gas combustion engine (~50 h.p.) and a small electric motor (again, ~50 h.p.), which I believe runs on a fuel cell. The two work together. Then they did all kinds of stuff to make the car more efficient. They even designed special brakes which generate electricity as you slow the car down. I want one.
You can read more about it at prius.toyota.com.
Wangden -
Re:Fuel cellsIt'll be nice to see more electric-gas hybrid cars out there, but with the 3-gallons-per-mile SUV craze going on, I don't think it'll happen all that soon.
I think it'll happen sooner than you think. The advantage of the new hybrid car from Toyota is that it gets the electricity from spare kinetic energy that your car generates from going downhill or braking to a stop -- you don't need "electric fuel pumps" anywhere to make it happen.
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Co-generation designs
There are designs that include a gasoline powered generator to charge on-board batteries and/or supplement battery power --- like the toyota Prius which is available in Japan and soon in the US. There's also work being done on fuel cell powered cars, with expected introductions in four years.
From a consumer point of view, these cars look a lot like regular cars -- you put gasoline in them and they go. However, there are some real advantages. One, the generator doesn't run all the time. So,for urban dwellers who spend time waiting for lights and traffic congestion, not having the engine idle is a big win in terms of energy consumption. Also, you can use regenerative breaking to recapture lost kinetic energy that otherwise would escape as heat.
Under test track conditions, internal combustion technology is still unbeatably superior. Under real life commuting conditions, it can be improved upon. How much? With current technology, the Prius gets gas mileage in the low 50s for city driving and low 40s highway with a 600 mile cruising range and top speed of 100mph -- not bad for a car which, while on the small side by American standards, is certainly not one of the tiny little rice-cookers of yesteryear. And, according to Toyota, it puts out only 10% of the emissions that an equivalent conventional car would. A 90% emission reduction and twofold (under some conditions) mileage improvement is nothing to sneeze at. -
Done On Purpose
This kind of thing is done on purpose. The Japanese don't let us have these things until they have been in use there for several years and we are behind the curve, so to speak (and as it's their products that's their right). It's one way to keep American industry behind Japanese and was done really bad back when Japan had their economy ramped way up.
Ex: Toyota has a car that has a electric/gas hybrid engine called the Prius that gets something like 70mpg in town. This vehicle has been available in Japan for at least five years. It gets released next year in the United States. Honda is releasing the Insight which has the same tech as the Prius this year. Go here and enter a search for the Prius for information about it.Go here for information on the Insight.
In summary... this is nothing new and will continue as long as the Japanese feel that we need to be kept behind them in these things. Nothing evil about it. Just business.
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Honda Insight and Toyota Prius: Hybrid Cars...
...that are on the road now.
The Honda Insight is a 70 mpg gas/electric hybrid that has won the Sierra Club's Excellence in Environmental Engineering Award. Base model MSRP is $18,880. You can read Carpoint's review of the Insight here.
The Toyota Prius is a 66 mpg gas/electric hybrid that has received the United Nations Environmental Protection Award. It has been available in Japan for about two years now, and is scheduled to be released in the US sometime this year. Toyota's site doesn't currently list the MSRP, but it sold in Japan for about $16,500 USD. There is a review of the Prius at TopGear.