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So you can't get rich on the efforts of others without giving them something back? Tough.

If you distribute a Qt application to Windows users that uses at least one GNU GPL licensed library (such as LZO, UCL, readline, and the like), you must use Qt Free Edition, and you also have to distribute the binaries and sources of Cygwin and XFree86 because Qt Free requires POSIX and X11 and cannot work with Win32. Yes, I know there's a straight Win32 version, but it requires Visual Studio 6 or later ($400), and its license does not allow developers to modify Qt and is thus incompatible with GPL'd libraries.

Although QT does not have to be licensed for 'commercial development', it does need to be licensed for non-Free (non-gpl) development. (see this link.)

On the other hand, gnome libraries are licensed under the LGPL, which allows non-gpl (closed source) development based on it.

Although I believe this was one of the deciding factors--potential software partners would not need to depend on an external company to develop, this is currently true with Motif, so it probably wasn't the only factor in their decision.
Probably Sun engineers felt Gnome was more true to unix traditions than KDE, felt more comfortable with it, and felt they would have a bigger say in the direction it ultimately took.

The closest I can find on their website is this on the downloadable evaluation version, currently based on 2.3 and soon 3.0. I think this is the same as the noncommercial, but I can't say for sure.

I couldn't find their details off-hand (eating up my bandwidth getting Enigma), however their one page does mention:

The limitations are that the product may only be used for educational purposes on school hardware, and on the schools premises.

EEEEK! If that meshes with their previous licenses and FAQ's, extreme caution might be warranted. Their whole "once touched, forever tainted" doctrine makes things very dicey

Just read their FAQs and such. It be an issue for some, but no problem for others. Just be informed so you can make informed decisions.

You know when you have to dig this deep into the site to find the pricing information, it's going to hurt when you get there.

http://www.trolltech.com/purchase/qtpricing.html

US$1550 for one professional license, US$1950 for one enterprise license?

I believe all the people that say QT3 is the bees' knees, but yikes. Guess I won't be experiencing that coolness for myself.

(Wistfully remembering the days when Think C was $99, and the early CodeWarriors were around $199)

Running Qt/Embedded has all sorts of disadvantages, however:

You can't use X11 remote display for development on/for the handheld anymore.

Use VNC instead then. VNC is also much more useful than X once the palmtop is out in the wild - palmtops don't usually have constant network access when they're in your pocket, and VNC can detach and reattach easily to existing sessions, even if you change your IP address in the mean time. X requires a constant network connection or else the app that you're running over X dies.

You can't share the handheld screen between applications written in different toolkits anymore.

And this is a bad thing? Personally I'd be very happy to see embedded Linux not making the same usability mistakes that desktop Linux has in the past, and which it is only now recovering from. Lots of toolkits == inconsistent interface == usability problems. Diversity is great, but there are places where it is inappropriate, and user interface is one of them. Not to mention the bloat aspect of having multiple toolkits...

You are tied to a single toolkit for handheld development.

See above.

Don't forget that Qt/embedded is also API-compatible with Qt/X11, which means that porting Qt apps from the Linux desktop is a cinch - and that's how Opera and Konq/e have been so rapidly successful - they are both based on Qt. Don't underestimate the importance of having a good browser for a palmtop. The only browsers I've seen for X11 that are optimized for display on a small palmtop screen are... Opera and Konq/e. You might as well run them under Qt/embedded.

How many full-blown browsers do you know written in FLTK or Java? Maybe when there's a nice tiny browser for FLTK using Gecko as a rendering engine there'll be something to talk about.

As for size, well, perhaps TinyX+FLTK+Blackbox really is no bigger than Qt/e. But think about what you get with Qt - Signals and Slots, a fast and very powerful canvas widget, full-blown Unicode support, in fact, all the nice features that have made Qt a huge success on the desktop. And, as I've said above, porting the multitude of existing Qt desktop apps is a no-brainer. Not to mention of course that the superb QPE is available, so if you want a complete environment for your users, it's just a compile away. No additional coding required.

FLTK doesn't offer any of this. In fact, no current X11 toolkit other than Qt itself offers all this. If you start adding other toolkits on top of TinyX then you can make up for some of the more important features... but oops, there goes your size, and your consistent interface.

If you have political problems with Qt, then say. You certainly seem to be short on valid technical problems.

Check QT/Palmtop and handhelds.org very cool, also check pocketlinux this is really the most beautiful PDA distro I've ever seen!!
If they can only make installation a bit easier...

Trolltech has some very interesting things like QT/Palmtop a fully fledged palmtop user interface with tools!
BTW nice restyle trolltech!

furthermore: on www.handhelds.org there are some really promising distros for ARM based PDAs

and finially a real beauty: Pocketlinux!! a verty nice distro!!!!

I really can't wait to try these distros on palm hardware!!!

Trolltech has some very interesting things like QT/Palmtop a fully fledged palmtop user interface with tools!
BTW nice restyle trolltech!

furthermore: on www.handhelds.org there are some really promising distros for ARM based PDAs

and finially a real beauty: Pocketlinux!! a verty nice distro!!!!

I really can't wait to try these distros on palm hardware!!!

It is GPL'd.

Like in-house development would require a commercial license of Qt. Look here.

This license allows for use that normally would be considered commercial, such as development of in-house applications and the like, but does not allow for the development of commercial applications or components of commercial applications or products

A non-commercial setting means that you must not use the package in the course of your employment or whilst engaged in activities that will be compensated.

The idea is that if you use Qt, you should pay back either by giving the software you make back to the free software community (the Free Edition), or contribute to the Qt development by purchasing commercial licenses from us (the Professional/Enterprise Editions).

As for which system promotes OSS better, well that's another post/debate. Personally I think the LGPL is great for getting it in the door and if a company wants to open their codebase they can do it at their discretion. But as to whether you can use the free toolkit for in-house development... I wouldn't give that a resounding yes after everything I've read.

Like in-house development would require a commercial license of Qt. Look here.

This license allows for use that normally would be considered commercial, such as development of in-house applications and the like, but does not allow for the development of commercial applications or components of commercial applications or products

A non-commercial setting means that you must not use the package in the course of your employment or whilst engaged in activities that will be compensated.

The idea is that if you use Qt, you should pay back either by giving the software you make back to the free software community (the Free Edition), or contribute to the Qt development by purchasing commercial licenses from us (the Professional/Enterprise Editions).

As for which system promotes OSS better, well that's another post/debate. Personally I think the LGPL is great for getting it in the door and if a company wants to open their codebase they can do it at their discretion. But as to whether you can use the free toolkit for in-house development... I wouldn't give that a resounding yes after everything I've read.

Like in-house development would require a commercial license of Qt. Look here.

This license allows for use that normally would be considered commercial, such as development of in-house applications and the like, but does not allow for the development of commercial applications or components of commercial applications or products

A non-commercial setting means that you must not use the package in the course of your employment or whilst engaged in activities that will be compensated.

The idea is that if you use Qt, you should pay back either by giving the software you make back to the free software community (the Free Edition), or contribute to the Qt development by purchasing commercial licenses from us (the Professional/Enterprise Editions).

As for which system promotes OSS better, well that's another post/debate. Personally I think the LGPL is great for getting it in the door and if a company wants to open their codebase they can do it at their discretion. But as to whether you can use the free toolkit for in-house development... I wouldn't give that a resounding yes after everything I've read.

• Running software developed by others (e.g. KDE)
• Development of open source/non-proprietary software

1. No source code. You're stuck with the binaries only.
2. Incompatible with GPL. It's a non-Free, 3rd party library, which is a no-no in GPL'd projects. From the README:

   If you wish to port one of the many GPL'd Qt-based Unix applications to another operating system using the Qt non-commercial edition, you need to get that application's copyright holders to add an exception to its license.

1. No source code. You're stuck with the binaries only.
2. Incompatible with GPL. It's a non-Free, 3rd party library, which is a no-no in GPL'd projects. From the README:

   If you wish to port one of the many GPL'd Qt-based Unix applications to another operating system using the Qt non-commercial edition, you need to get that application's copyright holders to add an exception to its license.

Because KDE is based on a GPLed Qt, whereas GNOME uses only LGPLed libraries.

Wait, a commercial license for Qt is not available? What are you purchasing here, then?

Take a look here [www.troll.no]. So the FAQ is outdated and Qt/Win is available for free for non commercial products (as is the case with Qt/X11).

No it won't. Qt Non Commercial Edition for Microsoft Windows.

Not that you'd ever bother checking your facts before posting. That would be a grave violation of the Slashdot code of conduct, wouldn't it?

Qt's licencing is pretty simple: GPL code? get Qt for free. Wanna charge $$$? Then pay Trolltech some. Sounds pretty fair to me.

Are you completely ignorant?? Qt/X11 is released under the GPL! Think before you post, moron!!

Qt FAQ

Qt compiles without a hitch and so does KDE. And if you want the official word, Trolltech's web site indicates that Qt will compile fine on Solaris, or pretty much any box running some form of X11. The KDE project has also made accomodations to run properly on Sun's OS. Sun doesn't have to do any work other than compilation and making packages. What's so hard about that? At the very least, they could make it an option.

Cheers,

Prolly never. They have even documented why they think the moc-way is better than templates for s&s.

http://doc.trolltech.com/3.0/templates.html

Then I realised its only free on X, you got to pay around 1500$ to get it on other platforms even if you want to write/ditribute a freeware app.

No, dude. It's free for open source software on Win32 as well:

http://www.trolltech.com/developer/download/qt-win -noncomm.html

The short answer is yes, there has been. The biggest problem has been with the C++ libraries, and g++ is finally standardising on a stable ABI.
As for Trolltech, they've always worked hard to maintain binary compatiblity (eg minor releases are binary compatible), indeed there were more
problems with binary compatiblity caused by libstdc++ issues than with Qt itself. I'm not
sure that KDE has been as stable, though this
should improve. (The move to DCOP resulted in growing pains)

To get some appreciation of how fragile binary compatibliity is, read this. Binary compatibility is fundamentally
difficult to preserve in C++, and I don't think there's any clean way around it. Fundamental
changes in interface or exposed structure
(that means anything besides opaque pointers) will break binary compatibility.

Personally, I think the fundamentals need to be
nailed down. C++ and C libraries need to preserve
binary compatiblity. On the other hand, I don't
think there's a problem with other libraries, so long as they maintain binary compatiblity across minor releases. (users could install multiple versions of the same library)

One hopes not. Trolltech have done a good job of maintaining source compatibility. Binary compatibility however is a much more fragile thing, especially in C++. It is broken by many things, some smaller than changing the interface. I recommend this link here as a good explanation of binary compatibility issues.

One of the most exciting pieces of news about Qt 3 (for me at least) is that it supports Mac OS X. And I'm not talking in X11 mode running XFree86. They have a true Quartz/Aqua implementation that runs natively, including OpenGL support.

So finally, all of those apps that use Qt to port to Windows now immediately port to Mac OS X with a recompile. Good show, Trolltech!

Read more from their press release.

Seems to be a rather developer-oriented project. The cynical among us would question the priority of moving to Qt3 with regard to the fact that TrollTech employs key developers.
>>>>>>
Actually, there is nothing to be cynical about. Qt3 is a big step up from Qt2. For example, it is finally thread-safe. Qt2 was also, in theory, but threading features were unused in KDE programs because of the immaturity of Qt's thread saftey. Check out the Qt3 features list.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

KDE Ships Alpha of Third Generation of the Leading Linux Desktop for Developers

October 5, 2001 (The INTERNET). The KDE Project today announced the immediate release of KDE 3.0alpha1, the third generation of KDE's free, powerful and easy-to-use free Internet-enabled desktop for Linux and other UNIXes. KDE 3.0 is scheduled for its first beta release this December and for final release in late February 2001.

This inaugural release of the KDE 3, which follows two weeks after the stable release of KDE 2.2.1 series, is based on TrollTech's Qt 3.0.0beta6. It ships with the core KDE libraries, the core desktop environment, and over 100 applications from the other base KDE packages (administration, multimedia, network, PIM, utilities, etc.).

The primary goal of the 3.0alpha1 release is to provide a framework for developers to start porting their KDE 2 applications to KDE 3 and to solicit developer feature contributions and feature requests before the KDE 3 API is frozen for binary compatibility. In addition, experimental KDE users who would like to try this release can set up a KDE 3 system side-by-site with a KDE 2 system. Instructions for doing so are available here.

Additional information about KDE 3 is available at the KDE website, including a tentative release plan, a KDE 3 info page, and a list of planned features.

For both developers and users, KDE 3 offers substantial improvements and additions compared to KDE 2 (the great bulk of which are, at this juncture, due to the switch to Qt 3):

For the developer:

For everyone:

Most of these improvements result directly from the switch to Qt 3, which has been the focus of KDE 3 code development so far. Improvements to the KDE libraries and applications themselves are planned for the successive beta releases leading to the first stable KDE 3. A list of these planned features is available here.

Since KDE 3 is mostly source compatible with KDE 2, porting applications from KDE 2 to KDE 3 can usually be done surprisingly quickly. The process is substantially easier than it was for porting from KDE 1 to KDE 2, and even very complicated applications can be ported in a matter of a few hours.

Instructions for porting KDE 2 applications to KDE 3 are available separately for the KDE libraries and the Qt libraries. Most of the changes required for the port applications pertain to changes in the Qt API. Although neither the KDE 3 nor the Qt 3 APIs are frozen, few changes are anticipated for the final releases of KDE 3.0 and Qt 3.0.0, respectively.

KDE and all its components (including KDevelop and KOffice) are available for free under Open Source licenses from the KDE ftp server and its mirrors and can also be obtained on CD-ROM.

Library Requirements. KDE 3.0alpha1 requires qt-3.0.0beta6, which is available in source code from Trolltech as qt-x11-3.0.0-beta6.tar.gz, as well as libxml2 >= 2.3.13, available here.

Compiler Requirements. Please note that some components of KDE 3.0alpha1 will not compile with older versions of gcc/egcs, such as egcs-1.1.2 or gcc-2.7.2. At a minimum gcc-2.95-* is required. In addition, some components of KDE 3.0alpha1 (such as the multimedia backbone of KDE, aRts) will not compile with gcc 3.0 or 3.0.1, though the forthcoming gcc 3.0.2 release will most likely work.

Source Code. The complete source code for KDE 3.0alpha1 is available for free download at http://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/kde-3.0-alpha1 /src/ http://master.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/kde-3.0-alp ha1/src/ or in the equivalent directory at one of the many KDE ftp server mirrors.

Further Information. For further instructions on compiling and installing KDE 3.0alpha1, please consult the installation instructions and, if you should encounter problems, the compilation FAQ.

KDE is an independent, collaborative project by hundreds of developers worldwide working over the Internet to create a sophisticated, customizable and stable desktop environment employing a component-based, network-transparent architecture. KDE provides a stable, mature desktop, an office suite (KOffice), a large set of networking and administration tools, and an efficient and intuitive development environment, including an excellent IDE (KDevelop). KDE is working proof of the power of the Open Source "Bazaar-style" software development model to create first-rate technologies on par with and superior to even the most complex commercial software.

Please visit the KDE family of web sites for the KDE FAQ, screenshots, KOffice information and developer information. Much more information about KDE is available from KDE's family of web sites.

Besides the valuable and excellent efforts by the KDE developers themselves, significant support for KDE development has been provided by MandrakeSoft and SuSE. Thanks!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

KDE Ships Alpha of Third Generation of the Leading Linux Desktop for Developers

October 5, 2001 (The INTERNET). The KDE Project today announced the immediate release of KDE 3.0alpha1, the third generation of KDE's free, powerful and easy-to-use free Internet-enabled desktop for Linux and other UNIXes. KDE 3.0 is scheduled for its first beta release this December and for final release in late February 2001.

This inaugural release of the KDE 3, which follows two weeks after the stable release of KDE 2.2.1 series, is based on TrollTech's Qt 3.0.0beta6. It ships with the core KDE libraries, the core desktop environment, and over 100 applications from the other base KDE packages (administration, multimedia, network, PIM, utilities, etc.).

The primary goal of the 3.0alpha1 release is to provide a framework for developers to start porting their KDE 2 applications to KDE 3 and to solicit developer feature contributions and feature requests before the KDE 3 API is frozen for binary compatibility. In addition, experimental KDE users who would like to try this release can set up a KDE 3 system side-by-site with a KDE 2 system. Instructions for doing so are available here.

Additional information about KDE 3 is available at the KDE website, including a tentative release plan, a KDE 3 info page, and a list of planned features.

For both developers and users, KDE 3 offers substantial improvements and additions compared to KDE 2 (the great bulk of which are, at this juncture, due to the switch to Qt 3):

For the developer:

For everyone:

Most of these improvements result directly from the switch to Qt 3, which has been the focus of KDE 3 code development so far. Improvements to the KDE libraries and applications themselves are planned for the successive beta releases leading to the first stable KDE 3. A list of these planned features is available here.

Since KDE 3 is mostly source compatible with KDE 2, porting applications from KDE 2 to KDE 3 can usually be done surprisingly quickly. The process is substantially easier than it was for porting from KDE 1 to KDE 2, and even very complicated applications can be ported in a matter of a few hours.

Instructions for porting KDE 2 applications to KDE 3 are available separately for the KDE libraries and the Qt libraries. Most of the changes required for the port applications pertain to changes in the Qt API. Although neither the KDE 3 nor the Qt 3 APIs are frozen, few changes are anticipated for the final releases of KDE 3.0 and Qt 3.0.0, respectively.

KDE and all its components (including KDevelop and KOffice) are available for free under Open Source licenses from the KDE ftp server and its mirrors and can also be obtained on CD-ROM.

Library Requirements. KDE 3.0alpha1 requires qt-3.0.0beta6, which is available in source code from Trolltech as qt-x11-3.0.0-beta6.tar.gz, as well as libxml2 >= 2.3.13, available here.

Compiler Requirements. Please note that some components of KDE 3.0alpha1 will not compile with older versions of gcc/egcs, such as egcs-1.1.2 or gcc-2.7.2. At a minimum gcc-2.95-* is required. In addition, some components of KDE 3.0alpha1 (such as the multimedia backbone of KDE, aRts) will not compile with gcc 3.0 or 3.0.1, though the forthcoming gcc 3.0.2 release will most likely work.

Source Code. The complete source code for KDE 3.0alpha1 is available for free download at http://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/kde-3.0-alpha1 /src/ http://master.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/kde-3.0-alp ha1/src/ or in the equivalent directory at one of the many KDE ftp server mirrors.

Further Information. For further instructions on compiling and installing KDE 3.0alpha1, please consult the installation instructions and, if you should encounter problems, the compilation FAQ.

KDE is an independent, collaborative project by hundreds of developers worldwide working over the Internet to create a sophisticated, customizable and stable desktop environment employing a component-based, network-transparent architecture. KDE provides a stable, mature desktop, an office suite (KOffice), a large set of networking and administration tools, and an efficient and intuitive development environment, including an excellent IDE (KDevelop). KDE is working proof of the power of the Open Source "Bazaar-style" software development model to create first-rate technologies on par with and superior to even the most complex commercial software.

Please visit the KDE family of web sites for the KDE FAQ, screenshots, KOffice information and developer information. Much more information about KDE is available from KDE's family of web sites.

Besides the valuable and excellent efforts by the KDE developers themselves, significant support for KDE development has been provided by MandrakeSoft and SuSE. Thanks!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

KDE Ships Alpha of Third Generation of the Leading Linux Desktop for Developers

October 5, 2001 (The INTERNET). The KDE Project today announced the immediate release of KDE 3.0alpha1, the third generation of KDE's free, powerful and easy-to-use free Internet-enabled desktop for Linux and other UNIXes. KDE 3.0 is scheduled for its first beta release this December and for final release in late February 2001.

This inaugural release of the KDE 3, which follows two weeks after the stable release of KDE 2.2.1 series, is based on TrollTech's Qt 3.0.0beta6. It ships with the core KDE libraries, the core desktop environment, and over 100 applications from the other base KDE packages (administration, multimedia, network, PIM, utilities, etc.).

The primary goal of the 3.0alpha1 release is to provide a framework for developers to start porting their KDE 2 applications to KDE 3 and to solicit developer feature contributions and feature requests before the KDE 3 API is frozen for binary compatibility. In addition, experimental KDE users who would like to try this release can set up a KDE 3 system side-by-site with a KDE 2 system. Instructions for doing so are available here.

Additional information about KDE 3 is available at the KDE website, including a tentative release plan, a KDE 3 info page, and a list of planned features.

For both developers and users, KDE 3 offers substantial improvements and additions compared to KDE 2 (the great bulk of which are, at this juncture, due to the switch to Qt 3):

For the developer:

For everyone:

Most of these improvements result directly from the switch to Qt 3, which has been the focus of KDE 3 code development so far. Improvements to the KDE libraries and applications themselves are planned for the successive beta releases leading to the first stable KDE 3. A list of these planned features is available here.

Since KDE 3 is mostly source compatible with KDE 2, porting applications from KDE 2 to KDE 3 can usually be done surprisingly quickly. The process is substantially easier than it was for porting from KDE 1 to KDE 2, and even very complicated applications can be ported in a matter of a few hours.

Instructions for porting KDE 2 applications to KDE 3 are available separately for the KDE libraries and the Qt libraries. Most of the changes required for the port applications pertain to changes in the Qt API. Although neither the KDE 3 nor the Qt 3 APIs are frozen, few changes are anticipated for the final releases of KDE 3.0 and Qt 3.0.0, respectively.

KDE and all its components (including KDevelop and KOffice) are available for free under Open Source licenses from the KDE ftp server and its mirrors and can also be obtained on CD-ROM.

Library Requirements. KDE 3.0alpha1 requires qt-3.0.0beta6, which is available in source code from Trolltech as qt-x11-3.0.0-beta6.tar.gz, as well as libxml2 >= 2.3.13, available here.

Compiler Requirements. Please note that some components of KDE 3.0alpha1 will not compile with older versions of gcc/egcs, such as egcs-1.1.2 or gcc-2.7.2. At a minimum gcc-2.95-* is required. In addition, some components of KDE 3.0alpha1 (such as the multimedia backbone of KDE, aRts) will not compile with gcc 3.0 or 3.0.1, though the forthcoming gcc 3.0.2 release will most likely work.

Source Code. The complete source code for KDE 3.0alpha1 is available for free download at http://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/kde-3.0-alpha1 /src/ http://master.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/kde-3.0-alp ha1/src/ or in the equivalent directory at one of the many KDE ftp server mirrors.

Further Information. For further instructions on compiling and installing KDE 3.0alpha1, please consult the installation instructions and, if you should encounter problems, the compilation FAQ.

KDE is an independent, collaborative project by hundreds of developers worldwide working over the Internet to create a sophisticated, customizable and stable desktop environment employing a component-based, network-transparent architecture. KDE provides a stable, mature desktop, an office suite (KOffice), a large set of networking and administration tools, and an efficient and intuitive development environment, including an excellent IDE (KDevelop). KDE is working proof of the power of the Open Source "Bazaar-style" software development model to create first-rate technologies on par with and superior to even the most complex commercial software.

Please visit the KDE family of web sites for the KDE FAQ, screenshots, KOffice information and developer information. Much more information about KDE is available from KDE's family of web sites.

Besides the valuable and excellent efforts by the KDE developers themselves, significant support for KDE development has been provided by MandrakeSoft and SuSE. Thanks!

the apple faiths would not be yelling about how M$ spent 'so much time and money' on developing the 'look and feel'

Mac users certainly wouldn't, but hardcore Windows advocates might.

If M$ copied aqua, apple would lose a lot, however in the *nix world I feel that they would ony gain.

But the law doesn't care about this. It punishes you for playing favorites.

BTW doesn't M$ own a good chunk of apple?

It's very small. They're all non-voting shares.

TrollTech would probably release OS X QT

Already done. :)

- Scott

Trolltech had to recreate the Aqua look for Qt (the GUI toolkit, not QuickTime), since Qt emulates the look of the native system rather than wrapping. Like all other QStyles, there is probably close to no platform specific code in the engine. Unfortunately, only the Qt/Mac release will feature this style, as it apparently would go against "Apple rules" to distribute this into other Qt releases, like X11. So I guess it is ok to emulate the Aqua look as long as you are going to run on the Apple platform. That or Apple specifically granted Trolltech this permission, as Trolltech has mentioned they "coordinated with Apple" to make Qt/Mac.

While I have suspected Qt/Mac will not be GPL for other reasons, I believe this is a really strong reason as to why it won't be. If it were GPL, then any coder could just snag the style and compile with X11. Why mess with pixmap styles when you have close to the real-deal as a rendering engine?

So any app that's written to Qt (and there's a lot of them out there for Linux) should require just a recompile and work perfectly fine under Quartz/Aqua.

So any app that's written to Qt (and there's a lot of them out there for Linux) should require just a recompile and work perfectly fine under Quartz/Aqua.

What we need is a cross-platform component model, not a UNIX-only affair. Something like Trolltech are doing.

I was refering to QT. Works with X11, Win32, and embedded.

According to this release plan, KDE 2.2.1 will be the last stable KDE release for quite some time. Planned for release in February is KDE3.0, which will essentially be the same 2.x architecture but based on Qt 3.0. They are going to call it KDE3.0 mainly because it will break binary compatibility with 2.x. It will not be a rewrite like KDE2 was.

Of course, KDE is notorious for frequent releases, so I would imagine there will be betas / release candidates every 6 weeks or so until the final 3.0.

Happy downloading/compiling/etc!

Why would I want to develop crossplatform applications with GNUStep, when I can use Qt 3.0? Qt supports Windows, MacOS X, Unix/X11, and Embedded. Apps have the look and feel of the native platform (unlike GTK), and no power/speed is sacrificed because the look is emulated, not wrapped (unlike wxWindows). All this using the proven C++ language. This is not vaporware folks. Each supported platform is just that: fully supported and stable.

I can't compare it to the OS X API's, since I have never programmed for a Mac, but doing Qt programming has been easier than anything else I've tried. Check out this page, where customers, some from high-profile companies, sing praise about why they prefer Qt to other alternatives / native toolkits.

Besides the obvious cost of using Qt for commercial development (which should only be a financial issue for individual developers, not companies), what good reason is there to use anything else?

Why would I want to develop crossplatform applications with GNUStep, when I can use Qt 3.0? Qt supports Windows, MacOS X, Unix/X11, and Embedded. Apps have the look and feel of the native platform (unlike GTK), and no power/speed is sacrificed because the look is emulated, not wrapped (unlike wxWindows). All this using the proven C++ language. This is not vaporware folks. Each supported platform is just that: fully supported and stable.

I can't compare it to the OS X API's, since I have never programmed for a Mac, but doing Qt programming has been easier than anything else I've tried. Check out this page, where customers, some from high-profile companies, sing praise about why they prefer Qt to other alternatives / native toolkits.

Besides the obvious cost of using Qt for commercial development (which should only be a financial issue for individual developers, not companies), what good reason is there to use anything else?

Have you looked at Qt Designer? It does exactly what I think you're talking about.

``Palm is going to be bringing out a new operating system ... the belief is they'll have it done by the end of next year,'' he said. ``But it's hard to ship those things on time. It could take years, and Palm doesn't have years.''

Ok, so the trend is overpowerful PDAs to replace your desktop? If you want to use a PDA with desktop-like applications, why not use a Linux PDA with Qt Palmtop Environment? It's GPL and you can download it from the site. "Just add Linux and stir" it says on the page. Use Konq Embedded while you're at it, which is also complete. No vaporware here! Of course, you need a capable PDA to run these on. Hehe, are those available? :) Maybe iPAQ?

Oh and...

``The thing that impressed me the most is that it's a full Outlook client,'' he said, meaning the computer can have receive e-mail without relying on a desktop or laptop computer."

Golly gee. You could've received email with other PDAs for years too, like the Psions. Too bad they never got the recognition they deserve here in the states. At least with the built-in keyboard you could actually compose meaningful replies. Now that's power.

QNX on iPAQ looks sweet...

But I don't see anything that the Qt Palmtop Environment doesn't do already, and with similar style and panache.

Not to mention that QPE has a web-browser available FAR in advance of anything on any other handheld platform - Konqueror/embedded which has the full KHTML rendering engine that normal desktop Konqueror has, but with a UI optimized for a handheld's screen.

Of course, I shouldn't have to mention that both QPE and Konq/e are fully-fledged GPL'ed projects, which I'm pretty sure QNX isn't, last time I looked...

Didn't get it? So go see QT or Kylix!

The QPL prohibits development of proprietary software. For Qt our Qt Professional Edition product is available for this.

(emphasis is mine).

If you did not interpret "Proprietary" as "Non-GPLed", then we are arguing over semantics, and you really didn't need to YELL AT ME LIKE THAT.. Anyway, what I originally said is true, and does present problems for both Sun and other vendors who don't wish to be beholding to trolltech if they want to produce and sell proprietary software. I don't think it is necessarily good that Gnome makes it easier to produce closed-source software, but it is true.

• Opera
• Konqueror
• Mozilla
• Galeon
• Skipstone
• Netscape

The article did not review a number of browsers. Here are a some more that you may want to try:

• Arena
• Amaya
• Chimera
• MMM
• Emacs/W3
• Lynx (text based)
• Links (text based)
• Debris (text based)
• w3m (text based)
• Libwww (text/line based)
• HowJava
• Express
• Armadillo (was Gzilla)
• Mnemonic
• Kde (file manager with builtin browser)
• mMosaic
• QtMozilla
• QWeb
• Mosaic
• Arachne
• Beest
• Beonex
• BrowseX
• Grail
• Dillo
• NetRaider

And how the disclaimers: The list above by no means complete. The browers above were listed in j-random order. Some browsers are in early alpha stage, some in Beta and others are in full release. Some of the browsers may suck, some are OK and some are good. Your mileage may vary. Sorry If I left out your favorite browser. IE was left off the list for obvious reasons. Good while supply lasts or until Bill Gates takes over. I'm not a member of the FCIA. Void where cast as (void).

Actually,

With the Qt libs available on Mac OS X, it wouldn't be hard for the KDE team to cut what little X dependencies they have and port KDE3 to said operating system.

On the commercial side, KDE Studio Gold from the Kompany looks to be even better, and they also have Blackadder for Python and Ruby development if you need that. And language legends Borland are in the process of bringing over most of their modern packages including Delphi (confusingly renamed Kylix), Java and C++. Right now, Kylix is available, with C++ Builder and JBuilder coming in the next few months. Again, as long as you stay away from OS specific API calls (that does for Linux and Windows), you can reuse all objects and source with a simple recompile aimed at either Windows or Linux.

--
Evan

I installed Familiar and QPE on my iPaq a couple of weeks ago. The installation was pretty easy; it took me a weekend but I was being *very* careful and eventually had to upgrade my Linksys 802.11 access point (didn't like Familiar's DHCP I guess).

I love QPE. It's very snappy and looks a whole lot better than WinCE. I must admit the lack of an email and browser app hobbles me a bit, but I'm getting the development tools online. The handwriting isn't as nice as Palm's Graffiti but is a hell of a lot better than WinCE's (IMHO).

I never was able to get my Xircom or 3Com pccard network cards to work; the Lucent Orinoco worked just fine though (after I upgraded my Linksys).

Would you buy an iPaq with Linux preinstalled? Compaq imports the iPaq from a Taiwanese company and (unconfirmed) has a exclusive contract to import the iPaq with WinCE installed (doesn't say anything about Linux, though).

With Familiar and QPE

I've been noodling with QPE on Familiar and found it to be stellar. I've shown it to some people I work with that use WinCE on the iPaq and they love the QPE look and feel. It's missing an email, web, and desktop sync app, but those can be brought over from KDE. Also needs an easy upgrade path.

What sort of market do people think there might be for iPaq with Linux preinstalled?