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In Bonjour, application developers describe the service used. For UPnP, The UPnP forum creates the profiles. If a profile doesn't exist, you must wait for the UPnP forum to create it. There appears to be a list of them here.

For example, there does not appear to be a profile for something like iChat (Internet Chat), Xcode (Distributed Computing), or Font Sharing. Yet Bonjour enables both of these since the standards bodies do not limit the services.

UPnP not only tracks where devices are but has sub-protocols for using various devices. One popular device is a router, and UPnP has a protocol for telling the router to map an outside port to a port on an inside machine, which can be bad. But if you want to do it (like for BitTorrent), it is so difficult that only obsessed evil hackers have been able to figure out how. Bonjour doesn't get involved with this.

UPnP uses SOAP, which is procedure calls and returns formatted in XML over HTTP over TCP, which is VERY COMPLICATED. Just to find out where your router is (e.g., 192.168.1.1), both you and the router have to talk to a central server. UPnP is a whole family of new, centralized protocols, and the only thing people use it for so far is something security experts say is risky.

For a sense of the mindsets, look at the explanation of bonjour on Apple's page
http://developer.apple.com/networking/bonjour

Then compare the description on the UPnP organization's site:
http://upnp.org/

It's not just the methods but the goals that are different. Like, er, apples and oranges.

--Steve

Can somebody explain to me what ZeroConf has got over UPnP? There is a lot of industry momentum around UPnP already (most routers ship with it for instance), it's an open standard, and there are open-source implementations of it as well. Is ZeroConf a result of Apple not-invented-here, or does it do something fundamentally different than UPnP?

It doesn't use SMB, It's probably a uPnP AV Device (Specs). Intel have a reference implementation of a server and client (can't find the link ATM).
The server will be listening on a port (it may or may not be a standard port, wither way I'm not sure what that port is) that you can point a web browser to, it should then return an xml file with other details about the content being served.

Microsoft has UPNP, which is supported by pretty much everyone who isn't Apple.

Here's the Linux UPNP stuff.

As far as I can tell, UPNP is the superior technology.

Begining to change - a number of these industries are moving into SOAP, with such niche languages as CSML (Control System ML) and legacy-extenders such as Bacnet/XML and LON/XML creeping into the market

Check out the Continental Automated Building Association (CABA) a consortium of companies now working on OBIX, (Open Building Information eXchange) whose mission is to expose the API's or Building Automation Systems (HVAC, Access Control, Security, even X10 is on board) under a common XML schema.

Somewhere out there is a White Box ML, for interfaces to Refrigerators, Washing Machines, Dryers, etc. This effort is an extension of the earlier UPNP (Universal Plug and Play) work done earlier than SOAP was around for interfaces to consumer electronics, computing, home automation, home security, appliances, printing, photography, computer networking, and mobile products.

SOAP is also creeping onto electric meters (see Power Measurement's ION line, some of the GE product lines) although these are still priced more for the industrial solution. Eaton Electric's Cutler-Hammer is even selling a SOAP-enabled Power Panel (you know, the grey box with circuit breakers in your back room)

The IAI, the engineering standards group, is working the issue from the other end, developping top-down standards drilling down to meet OBIX coming up, most notably in Green Building XML (GBXML) which has a lovely schema. Major CADD companies such as Autodesk, Bentley, and Intergraph have committed to support GBXML in their tools when modelling is used for design.

There is going to be a lot more of this in the future, and SOAP is going to be the ticket.

StrangeBerry is involved in a lot of networking projects, including UPnP and Java Port of ZeroConf.

Obviously this is going to allow for some level of interaction between your TiVo and equipment on your LAN, be it your router, your PC and/or your Mac. This could lead to an interface betweeen your TiVo and iTunes using Java. Maybe it is about pulling down content over broadband to your TiVo, though DRM concerns immediately come to mind. Maybe it is both.

Only time will tell.

There already is a whole raft of standards for home interconnection, and then home to outside world.

How does this new standard add to that?

Look at OSGi, uPnP and LonWorks just to show a few of them

Shouldn't UPnP take care of all this?

Against this, let's look at how things are done at Microsoft. I'll use as an example Universal Plug and Play, which was/is Microsoft's initiative to make your refrigerator talk to your PC.
Too many people get this wrong. UPNP is a standard that lets you transparently open up holes in your NAT. So if you want to run a game server or direct video chat behind your UPNP enabled router (many are) on WinXP, you can do so transparently. UPNP uses a protocol based on HTTP and XML to automatically configure port forwarding. It has little to do with a network enabled refrigerator.

Yes, there are solutions, but they're either rare, expensive, hacks, or a combination of the above.

UPnP's Internet Gateway Device control protocol is neither a hack nor is it expensive.

The idea is simple; your NAT firewall is UPnP enabled, and UPnP aware applications simply use the standard UPnP IGDP API to configure the firewall for it use. No work involved on the user's part at all!

And if you think this is far-fetched or won't be available, realize that many current home broadband routers already support this protocol, and applications such as Windows Messenger already make use of UPnP router features.

If you want to read all about it, go here.

What about universal plug and play?

Take a look at the MediaServer 1.0 spec.
Some audio hardware vendors are starting to support this, and it seems to be gaining steam.

Also note that MS isn't the only folks supplying UPnP, Intel also developed a lot which is now Open Sourced.

Rendevous & Zeroconf information:

• IETF Zero Configuration Networking (Zeroconf) Group
• IETF Zeroconf on Apple Rendezvous and Zeroconf
• Apple's Customer-pitch for Rendezvous
• Apple's Developer-pitch for Rendezvous

• Service Location Protocol Project
• Service Location Protocol Overview

Finally, for completeness here is UPnP:

• Universal Plug and Play Forum
• MS's Developer kit
• Intel's Developer info
• Intel-developed SDK, Open Sourced.

• IETF Zero Configuration Networking (Zeroconf) Group
• IETF Zeroconf on Apple Rendezvous and Zeroconf
• Apple's Customer-pitch for Rendezvous
• Apple's Developer-pitch for Rendezvous

• Service Location Protocol

Finally, for completeness here is UPnP:

• Universal Plug and Play Forum
• MS's Developer kit
• Intel's Developer info
• Intel-developed SDK, Open Sourced.

Microsoft has such a standard: UPnP (Universal Plug n Play). I'm not sure what other standards exist, but the point is, to add to your point that we don't need another OS, we don't even need another standard. If I am not mistaken, UPnP works over TCP among other things.

And not to burst anyone's bubble, but Microsoft partners with other companies. In fact, IBM, Sony, and Sun are all members of the Universal Plug n Play forum. See: http://www.upnp.org/membership/members.asp. The point is that you guys are missing the point. The PS3, the MS HomeStation whenever it comes to fruition, the XBox, and many consumer devices (among them Sony and IBM and Sun products) should be able to communicate over this protocol. Large corporations aren't full of dumb people who don't get it, and Large corporations need to partner with other corporations, even their competitors, to add value to their products.

Most of the posts so far in this thread are of the form: Large Corporation = Evil. Well, I work for one of those large corporations, and we're not focused on taking over the world, we're focused on delivering a product that enhances the life of people.

This is called Universal Plug-n-Play; it's already supported by Windows XP and the spec will come out in a few months. Makers of cheap NAT boxes have already pledged their support.

Depending on what your software does you might want to take a look at UPnP.org and see if their is a DSP template for your software yet. This is mostly for devices but, again, if your software can be shown as a device (might consider a streaming media server a device) this would be where you would want to go. Thanks, Kyle

I'm envisioning a unified interface for connecting these various devices...There would also be a need for a standardized, extensible, secure set of protocols for these devices to interact.

Oh, you mean Sun Microsystem's Jini(tm), or how about Microsoft's Universal Plug and Play (tm)?

As for using something other than ethernet for connectivity for consumer electronics, isn't that what Firewire / IEEE1394 was supposed to deliver on? Or, if you're talking about using the existing phone wiring in the home, how about something like this thingee from D-Link?

Now... There are a few examples of tech we have right now , basically. So why aren't we using them more? Various reasons I don't feel like going into, but basically they're being slow to adopt.

Meanwhile, more and more homes are being outfitted with Cable Modem and DSL broadband equipment, which for the most part means ethernet. Which is making it a growing defacto standard for home networking. Many of the things that the hardcore geeks are tinkering with now (home hubs and routers) will be common commodity in a few short years.

So, while there might be something more appropriate for the home than ethernet... I'd rather see internet appliances now with an ethernet module, and maybe the option for a pluggable NewHomeAutomationBusFastNetThing in the future. As for TCP/IP, again there might be something better, but that's what's showing up as the transport of choice in broadband homes across the world.

So again, great blue sky vision. But we have cable modems, DSL, ethernet, and TCP/IP in the home now. Give us more appliances ready for this growing market. (I mean, I don't have to shut off the fridge when I want to use the microwave, why should I have to shut off the IPad when I want to use my Dreamcast online?!)

UPnP has several IETF drafts, and SLP does not cover the Auto-IP solved problem.

I do like the fact that SSDP utilizes XML to encode the service data, this makes it extremely flexible.

See the announcement here, and the meeting publicity material on upnp.org.