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Where are the "Internet" Appliances with Ethernet Cards?
"I read a press release about the new IPaq information appliance. I think: well, I may get one of these for my kitchen. It'd be neat to have a good-looking appliance sitting somewhere on the counter so I could check e-mail, check CNN.com, have my daily moreover.com newsfeed, etc. But again: no ethernet -- just a crappy 56K modem. (And a $599 price tag! WTF is up with that? But again, I digress...)
Then, I start to think about the I-Opener. A modem. No ethernet.
So I start to wonder: why aren't there cheap internet appliances that simply have an ethernet card? Let me worry about the connection -- you sell me the hardware. The sort of appliance I might put in mykitchen for e-mail and casual surfing. I mean, I've got the home network up and running, got the firewall all configured, so everything is all set.
What's up with all these appliances and their built-in modems? I suspect it's because they're selling the service -- i.e. the 9.95 a month TIVO subscription or the 19.95 MSN service -- and so have no desire to support someone who already has the service.
So I gotta wonder: is the "true" internet appliance is still a long ways off? That what all these so-called 'internet appliances' -- TIVO included -- are simply companies risking losses on hardware in order to sell monthly services? Are there business models in place for internet appliance that *don't* rely on a modem and the monthly service? (I mean, I don't even mind the monthly service! I'd still pay 9.95 a month for TiVO -- but just ditch the modem and let me use my DSL!!)"
You gotta understand that most people don't have DSL. Dialup is still standard fare, even in the States.
Also, there are so many configurations for network setups that it may not always be possible to support all of them. It would be a technical support nightmare if they had to support DHCP routers, static IPs, PPPoE and so many other different kinds of logins that a network card could use.
With dialup its easy - 1 standard, 1 method for connecting - no ambiguity.
I know lots of computer geeks, but even in this group, having ethernet is not the standard.
It will take some time... years to come...
You found a sword: +4 damage, +5 moderator points
Most American's still dial up at 56K, so it wouldn't be cost effective to include an ethernet card if hardly no one used it. Plus, the kinds of people who usually use an IPaq kind of device usually connect at 56K because they don't know better.
However I do feel your pain. I have a cable modem, and I'm still waiting for an ethernet adapter to come out for the Dreamcast. Such is the hassles of being on the bleeding edge.
Maybe companies are being hesitant because they need an Appliance Over TCP/IP standard.
Somebody needs to show a secure way for a machine to be connected in an non-point-to-point environment. The TiVo is point to point, over the DSL, it would not be. Maybe some sort of VPN is needed to emulate a p2p or something secure like a ssh connection.
I know I don't want my tivo or my toaster to be "haxored"by the script kiddies.
I thought that Jini from Sun was supposed to solve some of this. Where is Jini at?
-I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
If there is ever an Lan connection on a Tvio it'd take probably less than a week for some smart arsed hack, to reverse engeneer access to those files and a means to play back and store on a PC. TViO proably doesnt want to deal with the legal implications of this, as they hinted before in there comments on the Hardware hack, they dont mind as long as no one starts poking at the propietry video file format they have.
Oblisk
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Is that they have to pitch these things where they can be used by the most people. I suspect the number of people who have a home network is relativly small. The number of people with a telephone line is significantly greater (although as it happens I have no land-line, just a mobile and ethernet :)).
:() but presumably it just dials the TiVO ISP and gets the details. Even if it gets it from centralised servers, from the way TiVO have acted so far I wouldn't be surprised if they were prepared to set up an Internet site for those with hacked ethernet TiVOs, as long as you're prepared to still pay the $9.95/month of course :)
Fortunately TiVO have already said that they have no objections to people hacking these things, and given that they run on Linux how hard can it be to put in a network card? I'm not familiar with the ins-and-outs of the TiVO (i'm in the UK and they're not out here yet
IMO we won't see devices like this with ethernet capabilities until ethernet is far more ubiquitous.
Here in the UK those that want to use the Sky Digital Television service must agree to permanently connect the box to a telephone line, so it can upload data such as which pay-for films you've been watching. At present I would expect this trend to continue..
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
The demo I saw at Mobicom 2000 was pretty convincing and they had a sleeve for compact-flash and one for PC-cards. All that's needed is drivers for the ethernet and wireless lan cards.
For that matter, why just Ethernet support, I want wireless ethernet support, I hate wires! Simon
The majority of homes don't have networks and/or high bandwidth connections yet (especially in the UK & Europe). So the market is not big enough for ethernet appliances, compared to the modem only versions, "Only a normal phoneline required for use". And why put in both and increase your costs?
Secondly they don't trust users with the data ! It becomes so much easier to break open your packet sniffer and start reverse engineering whatever protocol they are using, or redirect the communication or whatever the user feels like doing when its on a network. A phone line is so much more controlled.
Give it a while for home networks to become more popular (and standardise) and ethernet connectors may start to appear.
I know it's not a full-featured appliance, but the Kerbango internet radio offers Ethernet connections as well as landline. I think the reasoning behind that is because most of the people who would even know what to do with an internet radio are geeks with a high likelihood of owning a home network.
I agree with many posters regarding the profit motive. Although I have an ethernet home network, only 2 of my coworkers do as well. Most of my coworkers use dialup, but the cable-modem faction is definitely on the rise!
Would the current solution for we cutting-edge people to attempt to add ethernet to an existing appliance, or is it better to just buy a cheap PC, install a minimal Linux distro and leave it running?
Illegitimi non carborundum
They're launching the TIVO here in the UK in the fall (or autumn as we call it), in conjuction with a digital satellite broadcaster (Sky). Does anyone know if they are just going to rip the digital MPEG data directly from the DVB multiplex and store it? That would make sense...
...would it be to stick a modem in a networked pc, and get an appliance to "dial up" to it without going through the phone system? ie plug it striaght into the pc modem to modem. Presumably you'd need some power and some sort of "cross over"? (I would think the software would be easy)
Just my $0.02
The bastard
"Oh, I got me a helmet - I got a beauty!"
"Oh, I got me a helmet - I got a beauty!"
Jack Nicholson, Easy Rider
You'd want some kinda of inter-house broadcast protocol..
: WHO-HAS PERSON-NEAR && CAN-ALERT?
: SEND-ALERT "Toast's up!"
Those who create these devices (contrary to popular opinion) are not complete morons.
:)
In the case of the I-Opener if they gave you an ethernet socket then you would be able to connect it to the net down your cable line (and not thru their expensive service). Plus anyone knows that when it comes to making nice thin linux clients it's far more important to have an ethernet adaptor than even a hard disk.
No ethernet adaptor lessens the incentive to hack it
However my cable tv box has a serial port, ps/2 port, ethernet port, and one or two other proprietry ones that all have no documented use. Not to mention having a second smart card slot which is meant to be for Mondex electronic transactions. Although i see no reason to want to connect my cabletv box to my cable modem since i guess the tv box has a modem inside it anyway.
Do you think we could petition Microchip to make a microcontroller with built in 10mbit ethernet and tcp/ip. That way it could be made fairly trivial to built ethernet into the home appliances we already own.
On the other hand, consider this: you have your TiVO and your son has his dreamcast, now there you have a problem! Suddenly you have lack of phone lines. I bet the TiVO and the dreamcast would work normally on a shared 56K modem, but they can't because their modems are "integrated". Even if you have two lines, you double the cost for no really good reason. Perhaps an optional Ethernet-port (some cartrige-style stuff) would be a solution for this. Like pop out the modem, pop in the ethernet...
The only reason why I have an Ethernet at home is because of internet-connection-sharing. I mean, if my brother sits chatting the whole evening, there is no reason why I can't use the leftover-bandwith I'm paying for...so I download Mozilla M17 when he chats at virtually no cost since he would have been online anyway.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Just found something nice on that:
satelco e@sybox 500 it is called, basically a settop-box for surfing via your tv.
It runs netscape in some newer version, with HTML 4.0, CSS and all that. What really kicks me is that it can be had with either a 56k modem, a ISDN interface or some 2MBit via TV cable or ethernet!
look at http://www.satelco.de/ to find some rudimentary spec sheet in german. I also have a price (from a shop who sells PR presents for companies), they want DM 750 ($ 350) + VAT for that thing...
Supply and demand. Catch-22. There is a huge potential market where phone lines exist. By comparison, the number of cable modem or DSL customers is but a tiny fraction of that, now.
So, from a business perspective, where do you put your money when designing and manufacturing a product? Where the biggest market exists. Sure, they COULD add the hardware for an ethernet connection, but that costs money, and the expense would have to be paid by the consumer. A modem-only device would be less expensive to manufacture than a dual-mode model. (An ethernet-only model would have too small a market, now, to even consider.)
Herein lies an opportunity. From the start, I'll grant you that the customer would lose out on the high-speed of a cable modem/DSL connection, but it would at least free up their phone line. (As these devices become increasingly popular, I could readily imagine a dozen or so devices each trying to grab a phone-line connection.)
How about a box that interfaces with the analog modem signal on the internet appliance side (e.g. RJ11), and interfaces with the ethernet LAN (RJ-45) on the other side?
What would YOU be willing to pay for such a device?
Caveat: It might require some salesmanship to persuade the appliance vendors that there are cost-effective alternatives to purchasing and maintaining racks of modems for their clients to dial into; that these could be bypassed with a high-speed link to the ethernet direct to their routers.
Also, it is a market that would eventually disappear as high-speed access becomes pervasive and the vendors create products with the ethernet port built-in, but in the interim, I suspect a small fortune could be made.
Hmmm, anyone got $100 million to invest? (Paraphrasing an old saw: Question: How do you make a small fortune on the internet? Answer: Start with a large fortune? <grin>)
I think it would definately be powerful and useful if it were possible to connect all of these various devices together and allow them to communicate with each other. Not necessarily via TCP/IP and Ethernet, though that would certainly have advantages for connecting to computers and LANs. It could instead be some sort of new standard that would be easier for the average user to use, seeing as most people probably don't have their home wired for Ethernet already. Something that worked over existing wiring in the home, such as the phone lines, might be ideal in terms of ease of use if it were possible.
:)
If these devices could be interconnected easily, there would be lots of interesting possibilities for home automation and the like. Already one can use systems like X-10 to control devices, but this could be taken to the next level. For example, it would be useful to have a stereo that could pull MP3s from a centralized server, took audio and video from various sources (including, perhaps, a TiVo-like device, or streaming video from the internet) and distributed them to various locations around the house, and had an easy interface for controlling these features. These sort of things are indeed possible now, but they require complex enough setup and wiring that these are out of reach of the average consumer.
I'm envisioning a unified interface for connecting these various devices. It'd need both a physical means of communication - Ethernet is a possibility, and the bandwidth available with the faster variants is appealing; perhaps a wireless system would be more effective for the majority of people who don't have their homes wired for Ethernet. There would also be a need for a standardized, extensible, secure set of protocols for these devices to interact. This is a lot to hope for; perhaps I'm dreaming a bit too unrealistically - it's getting later and I'm running out of caffeine.
Life is far too important to be taken seriously.
I well i agree with the original post. Please just add some kinda slot that's all I need... No support No bullshit just a PCI slot and iwould be happY!!
Just another Jedi Knight looking for my anus...
- Not everyone has high-speed access. No point in connecting your Tivo to the 56K modem in your computer.
- Not everyone is going to have more than one device in their homes. They'll buy an iOpener and get e-mail, or they'll get Tivo and waste all their time with TV instead of WWW... at most I'd see two appliances, but not much more than that.
- I don't know anyone that has a LAN in their house, let alone hooked up to their DSL/cable connection. And I know some pretty hard-core geeks.
It boils down to "lowest common denominator". There isn't a market (a profitable one) for machines with ethernet. Unfortunately. And I guess the marketing yahoos don't think that it's worth the extra couple bucks to engineer in an optional ethernet adapter or expansion slot. Too bad.Mr. Ska
Because most (all?) of these appliances are loss leaders and they plan to make money off the service. They can still provide the service over the Internet, letting you come in any which way you can, but the logistics/infrastructure requirements of that probably is not cost effective. After all, these IA are targeted to newbies, and how many newbies do you know who can hook up such a box to their masq'd LAN (assuming they even know what it is)
According to the FAQ on the unofficial TiVo Hackers Site, adding an ethernet card to replace the modem is something they are working on or at least thinking about. Of course, you'll void your warranty . . .
I want to kit out our whole office with these and Star Portal (or some such). If they ever reach these shores... (Ireland)
http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/Forum6/HTML/000398 .html
If you do not have the serial port tied up with a satellite box, you can run ppp from the serial port to a server and set the default route. See the above link for instructions.
OTOH, it is only a short phone call every 25 hours.
Direct dial-up offers a sort of out of channel security in that you are not transmitting your data/info through the Carnivore monitored ISP networks. This way the service company does not have to worry about the encryption concerns when moving through public network segments. Also, how many denial of service attacks do you hear about against PBX/modem clusters?
that a lot of these appliances sell with an ISP contract as part of the deal, and it's a lot harder to require the buyer to use an ISP if their connecting the appliance to their existing DSL or Cable Modem.
The real kicker with the Tivo and its lack of ethernet is that it is actually making a dial-up connection with UUNET for it's nightly calls, meaning it is actually just making a PPP connection to the Internet to download the guide data.
Of course, you will still only get 56K, but those 56 Ks will probably be a lot faster than over a clogged ISP's phone line.
--
Pokéthulhu
Gotta catch you all!
I thought the TiVO wasnt updated throught the net -- IIRC, it dials in to their service to fetch updates. In this case, a DSL wouldnt help much (of course, they could always make it web-based, no comment on that). Still, I think most of the money they make is the monthly fee, not the price tag of the thing.
:)
I want tivo in iceland!
-- David S. Geirsson andmann@NO-SPAM-PLEASE.andmann.eu.org
Develop a phone Ethernet adaptor. I don't know if the phone jack would be able to scale up to anywhere near 10 mbps, much less 100 mbps, but it would be neat to see now far you get.
/.'s copies of this gadget for $5USD or less each.
;+)
By the way - When you've finished this, start selling
Thanks in advance!
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
"Is it really that hard to do?"
This is the perennial question from business and engineering newbies. Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Net payoff is the only factor.
Modems are:
-cheaper
-simpler
-more standard
Furthermore, even if Ethernet were tied on all the above it would still not have the wide adoption rate required to make a profit.
But if you are determined to not tie up a phone line you might have an option (depending on the device). Connect the device to your home server via a phone line. Just let it dial into your server and get to the Internet that way. (Clearly this doesn't work with devices that have proprietary protocols--which is another reason in favor of modems).
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
What i would imagine the major reason they are fitted with Modems are for the security reasons behind them.
You will probably be dialing in to a closed network not openly connected to the rest of the net therefor DSL would be an option anyways. This would reduce the possibilities of it being hacked, and if the number was hard coded into the TiVO software or something then it would make it much harder to dial in to this netowkr using a standard modem/pc.
I refuse to believe that it is as simple as connect to their server. etc.
Companies such as these rely on the service to make them money, if it ws being hacked or exploited every few months or whatever then this is major cause for concern and all of the services users.
Hope this will spread a bit of light!
Jobs touts the iMac as an Internet Appliance, right? And LinuxPPC + others are there...
Why don't they just have a pcmcia card or pc card, sorry forgot what they are called, but those are the things used in notebook computers, you know those credit card sized [insert generic device] cards?
That way, when you order, you can choice to get a modem for an additional $25 bucks, an ethernet card for an additiional $25 bucks or without anything. This way in [insert remainig life span of ethernet] years when ethernet is dead, you can take your favorite off the shelf pc networking card (wireless ethernet
Still an ethernet would be better by default then a 56K modem, or better yet add ethernet and stick a serial port on the back so you can terminal you way in or use it on an analog device to dialog out or even a direct connection to the host computer via serial null modem type of thing.
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
Of course then you may not be able to use the services bundled with the device, but a few scripts more, and you should have your own services up and running. Pay those $9.95 to yourself!
Could some telecom-guru explain why this modem trick does not work, or what it would take to make it work? And someone else explain how hard the scripting can be? I've never seen such a device...
In Murphy We Turst
Rocket science or breaking legs. I agree with the author. Why would it be so much harder to have an ethernet card in the machine? The manufacturer would only have to put in a $10 chip and rj45 connector. The configuration interface aould be the same - youre really only configuring the TCP/IP differently, and that would be the ISP's support problem. you need a new driver for the device...BIG fat hairy deal! youre all just pissed that some run CE and not linux, making it harder 4 u to hack. (xcept TiVo) And what REAL GEEK doesnt have ethernet (in some capacity, thinnet even) at home?
"I am a warrior, and information is my weapon..."
A similar situation is happening with USB devices: everyone knows you can daisy chain over 100 devices, but where are the devices with thru ports?? It's all about squeezing the consumer, so expect to see internet appliances with modems than can be swapped out for ethernet cards (you'll most likely have to buy both anyway). There is a simple way to get around these issues: start your own company.
"My guitar wants to kill your mamma." - Frank Zappa
Ok so dialup is standard fare. Isn't it possible to use an Airport with a modem or ethernet. I for one have a cable modem with linux as my firewall and bunches of ethernet ports to connect multiple machines. My problem is running the cables since I live in an apartment. Why not put some sort of wireless connection in these devices and then let the box (airport for example) it talks to determine whether or not to use dialup or ethernet. Most of these machines don't need kick ass bandwith so even slow 2mb wireless should be sufficient. Just my 2c. -- Bill
Pick up a flat panel LCD at an online auction and you'll get more than an appliance, you'll get half a PC!
I just gave away a Diamond Rio mp3 player because serial transfers are such a pain in the butt. My dad and brother both have digital cameras and both complain about slow xfers. I have a Bose Wave stereo and would *love* to be able to send it a few hours of mp3's via ethernet.
We are a team of Linux developers working on products to meet this need. We plan to have the products available by the beginning of 2001. For a preview see:
http://www.linuxbx.net or
http://www.linuxappliance.net
Regards,
Stephen Nodvin
Are you using in-line filters? If not, these are essential to keep DSL from interfering with regular modem activity.
I'm envisioning a unified interface for connecting these various devices...There would also be a need for a standardized, extensible, secure set of protocols for these devices to interact.
Oh, you mean Sun Microsystem's Jini(tm), or how about Microsoft's Universal Plug and Play (tm)?
As for using something other than ethernet for connectivity for consumer electronics, isn't that what Firewire / IEEE1394 was supposed to deliver on? Or, if you're talking about using the existing phone wiring in the home, how about something like this thingee from D-Link?
Now... There are a few examples of tech we have right now , basically. So why aren't we using them more? Various reasons I don't feel like going into, but basically they're being slow to adopt.
Meanwhile, more and more homes are being outfitted with Cable Modem and DSL broadband equipment, which for the most part means ethernet. Which is making it a growing defacto standard for home networking. Many of the things that the hardcore geeks are tinkering with now (home hubs and routers) will be common commodity in a few short years.
So, while there might be something more appropriate for the home than ethernet... I'd rather see internet appliances now with an ethernet module, and maybe the option for a pluggable NewHomeAutomationBusFastNetThing in the future. As for TCP/IP, again there might be something better, but that's what's showing up as the transport of choice in broadband homes across the world.
So again, great blue sky vision. But we have cable modems, DSL, ethernet, and TCP/IP in the home now. Give us more appliances ready for this growing market. (I mean, I don't have to shut off the fridge when I want to use the microwave, why should I have to shut off the IPad when I want to use my Dreamcast online?!)
That sounds a lot like Sun's vision for its Jini technology.It is an interesting idea, if nothing else.It is inevitable that some technology of this sort will find its way into modern households.
The New Internet Computer seems to have what you're looking for.
Look at the Mobicom 2000 website to see what kind of subjects were presented and discussed there....
A lot of these research projects are funded by the millitary, because ad-hoc networks are an obvious solution for situations where you don't have or cannot trust the infrastructured networks (be they wireless or wired).
Both wireless LAN and Bluetooth are capable of ad-hoc networks, but higher layers (the IP layer) must have some form of configuration to talk to each other. This is being developed in the IETF in the MANET and ZeroConf working groups.
Speed of these networks will improve over time, the other developments are at least as important and they will take some more years to mature I believe, so when it all comes together, heaven is upon us ;-)
Another interesting subject is ubiquitos or pervasive Internet. Meaning the accessibility of Internet in all (reasonably capable) devices and in all physical locations.
One complication is that Internet should not just be accessible to the rich, but also the poor and the people in the developing countries (this is important for a lot of reasons, but I digress...)
Check out Bob Metcalfe's column this week on Ucentric. If they can deliver, it's sure what I want. http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/00/08/14/ 000814opmetcalfe.xml
M.
About a year ago I started badgering our electricians at work, who do all our data wiring, if they had any partial CAT5 spools they wanted to sell. I had just moved into a new house and wanted to be able to pull 3 x CAT5 runs per room and having to rewind wire from a 1000' pull-box onto spools was a pain in the ass, hence the desire to buy the 1000' as 3 x 350' boxes.
Anyway, one of the electricians stopped me in the hall and said "you were ahead of your time. They just made CAT5 wiring code-required for all new construction, both voice and data." So Ethernet may not be everywhere, but the demand is great enough that the electrical code now mandates CAT5 wiring. I even saw Joanne Liebler pulling CAT5 during a Hometime episode.
The question I have, has anybody committed to fiber? When I say committed, I mean pulled into walls and part of the infrastructure, not just using 1M drops between FO tranceivers. How many pairs did you pull per room? Does it just serve as a replacement for 100M copper ethernet or are you running gigabit/ATM over it?
Your WAN router could dial out via good old analog, the connection is completely immaterial. It would be fairly trivial for the vendors to provide for two scenarios:
1. Internal modem with vendor's dial-up server
OR
2. Internal Ethernet card, with options for:
a. DHCP/BOOTP OR static IP
b. default gateway
c. optional proxy server
d. optional POP3 server
e. any other device-specific features
Setting up for these two scenarios could be easily accomplished with a simple wizard that makes it idiot-proof. The initial choice between vendor's ISP and Ethernet could be labeled in colorful ways such as EASY SETUP and ADVANCED.
Eventually vendors WILL have to take this approach, as appliances get more and more popular. Once you have a few appliances, say one in the kitchen, one in the living room (maybe set-top box), one in the bedroom/can/den/torture chamber, vendors will have to provide for the possibility of all/some of these devices being used simultaneously. With a single phone line that just ain't possible, guv.
Besides, as appliances become more popular, smaller and smaller vendors will start offering them, and many of them simply won't have the capital to set up their own ISPs. Including just Ethernet is an easy way for them to cheapen out, and still address a large audience. Home LANs are becoming a lot more popular than large companies are willing to concede (there are stats on that, I couldn't be bothered to look them up now), and sooner or later they'll wake up and smell the coffee and realize the money they could save.
Overall, though, I think the main reason there will be a move away from modems is the multiple appliance simultaneous access problem.
Uwe Wolfgang Radu
Whatever it may seem like for "we're all standardizing on Ethernet," it simply is not true.
The entire POINT of selling "Internet Appliances" is to provide low-cost alternatives to PCs. Anybody who's seriously in the market for an IA as a primary access tool (not just geek/cool points!) is probably not yet a prime candidate for broadband. People who aren't totally geeked out still exist-- strange but true, no? But forecasts say that through 2003 at least, the overwhelming majority of Americans will still be connecting to the Internet through dialup. (Sorry, I forgot the source where I read that.) The IA market exists to service them, not us.
Whether an Ethernet card is cheaper than a modem or not, the development, production, and support costs all increase quickly with a modem/Ethernet option added to an IA. I think what it comes down to is, it's just plain not feasible.
Have a look at the Scovery 211 mentioned here:1 232
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/08/03/175
Egghead is still running auctions selling them.
-- Kevin G. Austin || kaustin@sffan.net || http://sffan.net/kaustin/
For now, most of the homes that buy "internet appliances" only have one, or maybe two, the market is just starting, and it's slow. To have to buy an "internet appliance multiplexor" that can share your phone line with many home internet appliances would be an excessive burden, if all you have is an iVCR. However, the manufacturers are going to have to get their heads together and come up with a standard for home internet connectivity, and then you'll have a $50 box that plugs into the phone line, and all your household devices (including your Windows PC, then 1-6 months later your Linux PC) will connect to it via ethernet, USB, power lines, radio, or whatever, and it'll dial up the internet on demand. https should cover the manufacturers' security concerns. I'm looking forward to it.
Or even better, someone finds a way to make the TIVO stream television over your home network. Using quicktime or real media (it has the hardware encoders) or just plain mpeg with some modifications. I would want something to do that.
wasn't this what sun's jini was for? connecting every device in you're house/car/space station and having them talk to eachother.
Maybe you should have a look at the IPC@Chip. It's a 80186 @ 20MHz with built-in FLASH, SRAM and Ethernet. The address is: www.beck-ipc.com
Consider some alternative networking technology to tie in remote clusters of machine, like wireless, or phone line networking. So if you have a bunch of machines at one end of the house, and a bunch at the other, network just one machine from each cluster together via phone line or wireless. Phone line is becoming very viable because of phone line/ethernet bridges that are becoming available. Within the clusters though definitely use 100M, don't want to slow down EVERYBODY. So accessing machines from the other cluster will be slow(er), but also much less hassle. And chances are that you just need to tie them together for WAN access anyway, so the cluster link won't be the bottleneck anyway.
Uwe Wolfgang Radu
I can only give the possible UK perspective.
It is most likley that a UK TiVo would dial an '0845' number - a premium service line, charged at
the local rate wherever you call from. I'm sure the US has an equivalent.
Using this number, TiVo would generate extra cash on top of the subscription fee because a cut of
the call charges go to them.
If you're looking to surf the web while cooking, why not just buy a bunch of used Xterminals from a local college and put them on a home network? Serve the X sessions from your Linux box and you're good to go.
- No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades really cramps his style.
Does anyone know of a hardrive that has ethernet that runs NFS? I need some dumb little drive that I can put on the network and configure either through telnet or www.
TIA
Modems aren't fast and they aren't cool. I don't even own one anymore since I have Roadrunner. From Tivo's point of view, though, support issues make a modem much more attractive. Most peoples telephone wiring works pretty well, but they don't know what to expect with people's network connections, between Internet outages, misconfigured proxies and IP masquerading, and who knows what else. The term appliance should help explain this; the goal is a device that you just plug in and use.
its a fancy VCR. The modem is so the thing can dial up at specifiec times, to the tivo service 800 number and download the latest tv schedules.
Then, I start to think about the I-Opener. A modem. No ethernet.
I-Opener has one USB port (contrary to a false rumour, you can add another if you like surface mount soldering). The USB can be adapted to ethernet if you like. The caviat here is that Netpliance does not support any of the above, even thought the hardware does (kinda).
You can check the latest progress on I-Opener hacking here, including the processor upgrades up to K6-III 333 AFK (it is an OEM chip, Fry's has tham all).
The point is well taken that it does not seem like the manufacturers want to enable this capability, even if it is sitting there waiting to be activated. Kinda disappointing.
Visit DC2600
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
I agree with the article 100%. It's sad (and expensive!) to keep making these nifty little gadgets with redundant dialup hardware.
I propose that a manufacturer produce a little PPPD-and-modem in a box, with 1-4 ethernet jacks, and a minimal configuration system. Then, even the most un-savvy user can have their own home network, while the rest of us aren't made to buy multiple losey modems.
Buy an iPaq? Buy a dialer box! Want another for the bathroom? You've already got connectivity, so the next one is cheaper!
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I wrote them late last year regarding an ethernet interface. I was curious about when they would add one, being careful to politely explain the benefits. They indicated that they had no current plans to incorporate ethernet, but that they were keeping the option open for future development. Please e-mail them regarding your desire for ethernet. Hopefully they can be persuaded to incorporate it.
Soder a ethernet card on the motherboard, tweak the system a bit and sell them!
If you know what is so good for consumers, and there is a demand for it, it is simply foolish for companies *not* to try to fill the market.
You seem to be up on what is hot, only thing left for you to do is sell them.
Buying an appliance that only works with one service provider (that will be out of business a year from now) is throwing money away.
There are many posts in this discussion arguing that no one has Ethernet at home... I agree, that is the situation today. But everyday more and more Internet appliances are created, and yes, I would definitively like to have more than one of them online at once... In Mexico there is no high-speed Internet access for public use (the highest offering is 128K ISDN), but many people do buy a secon phone line to be online as much time as possible. Well, if I'm online... I think I would like to share my connection between my main computer and all my little appliances!
:)
Once again, think about the future - You *will* want to know how many cans of soda are there at the fridge before moving from your TV-watching couch!
Fast internet connections are not the norm. They are the minority. probably over 95% of the commercial internet space (a/k/a not colleges) still run at 42000bps.
Why would you spend that much time enginnering a box that only, at best, 5% of the population will buy?
It still comes down to the all-mighty $$.
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
Here's one you didn't mention: The ZapStation.
ZapMedia is coming out with an internet appliance called a ZapStation. It is more of a digital entertainment device/MP3 jukebox/DVD player and doesn't have DVR capabilities, but it plays mp3s, CDs, DVDs, and online movies and music. Of course, you can also browse the web or send/receive email with it.
It comes with an ethernet jack in the back--it would plug right in to a home network without trouble.
It is also Linux based and due out later this year.
--Michael
Though I'm still worried that technical details might keep it from being widely accepted.
Jini can run on top of Bluetooth. TCP/IP is optional for Bluetooth. Theoretical bandwidth of 720kbps. Range of 30 feet, so would need repeaters throughout the house.
I think we're right to ask why we can't get simple x-terminals (or equivelents) to buy. But I'm going to stop thinking from my angle and start thinking from the angle of the service providers.
Ultimately, what they're selling is a content delivery service. They give you the "node" at the end of the line and they hope to sell you stuff to go on it. This holds true for all Internet appliances with the "sell the blades" model, whether it's a simple surfing device or a TiVO. They want to sell you content, and in order to reach a wider audience they give you the node to sweeten the deal.
This raises a fundamental question. Will we have to pay to get content delivered to every last device in our home?
I think we all know the answer: none of us would. By definition, then, we don't have to - I don't think any consumers would do that.
So here's how the internet appliance companies are going to adapt their content delivery service once A) broadband becomes more common and B) they get their software and hardware established:
The appliance companies are going to give away servers. After a time, when Joe-consumer begins to want more than two or three ways to access the internet, he'll begin to balk at paying for all this. And the appliance companies will build server appliances: instead of delivering content to the individual devices that we use, they'll deliver it to servers owned by consumers (and given away/sold very cheaply by the service providers). Once the content is on the server (thinking especially music and video here) then we can plug in as many devices as we own via ethernet.
-Merlyn42
The audience doesn't care if it's hard.
Excellent, a new excuse for the next time I fail to set up the vid properly - someone hacked it...
Look, many users couldn't tell the difference between a phone line and an ethernet jack if both had neon signs.
I've helped new students get their spiffy new machines setup in the dorms at my university, and, belive me, people plugged phone cables into their modem and then wanted to know why the ethernet connection wasn't working.
Imagine your typical AOLer. Yeah. They know the difference.
But there are issues. In some cases, we are bundling services with the system -- these are not yet something you would likely buy for home use if you already had a PC. In some installations, you're getting our box via another service provider, such as a cable TV company, and may very well be able to share the connection with a PC.
TiVo and more specific purpose units are, and sure, there's no really reason no to allow alternate hookups even there, except perhaps the support issue. They want to sell an appliance -- every unit is basically the same unit, and not offering an Ethernet hookup may save on the support side without really hurting their acceptance among advanced users. After all, I bought my TiVo anyway; I would have preferred an ethernet hookup.
Of course, TiVo may also be taking a shortcut and not running over a full TCP/IP link, which is another issue.
In time, this will change. The phone thing works for the first appliance, gets annoying for the second (I also have a satellite box in the same room), unmanageable much beyond that. As connected appliances grow, they will at first support and later demand some kind of home network. Hopefully, that'll be IP6 based with some choice in options, though there's certainly a chance the consumer electronics giants will embrace one thing (maybe bluetooth, maybe not) so completely that computer users and smaller manufacturers like me will have not choice but to follow suit.
We're entering the transition phase now -- give it a few years.
-Dave Haynie
Oracle's New Internet Computer (http://www.thinknic.com), a Linux-based thin client, has an Ethernet connection.
Get a Qubit, out 4th quarter: http://www.qubit.net/index.html
Those lovely people over at the Dallas Semiconductor toyshop make a gadget that's just the job for this, the TINI board.
Size of a DIMM module, built-in 10baseT, a Dallas one-wire interface, runs Java and costs $50. What more could you want ?
..the hardware may be cheaper. But that's not the only cost. With a networking device you also have to have a networking subsystem. With a modem you just write to a serial port. Then there's configuration (modem=phone#; network=IP, mask, gateway, dns, etc), support (modem=normal phone problems; network=normal network problems which are more numerous and less easy for Joe Blow).
Well, that's totally unreadable. Oh well.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
I agree most people do not have DSL or any other high speed connection at home including my self.
But I do have a network at home so that all my machines at home can have equal access to the internet over my 28.8 connection through a masq Linux box. I may not be able to do everything at one time, but I do not have to make sure I dropped my connection a one device so I can dial out w/ another. This is the main reason I haven't even bothered w/ any of these internet appliances.
And talking about having to set-up all kinds of different types of ethernet connections, there is only static or DHCP/bootp. PPPoE, at least the only way I have seen it down, is only been used when the DSL modem is located inside the PC w/o an ethernet card.
Cybrhippy - "It all makes sense... Well, To me anyway." The Maxx
It was just yesterday that I was looking at a Compaq IPAQ. I just want something small and pretty to sit in my living room for quick internet access. But, the IPAQ only comes with a modem....didn't see anywhere to upgrade it with ethernet. I guess I won't be buying myself one of those.
ÕÕ
Oh, you beat me. I've only had it for 7 years, the last 3 of which has been at 100 mbps.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Your high speed provider doesn't want you to hook up your Tivo (or Kerbango or I-opener) to your LAN which you have connected to your line to the outside. In fact, if you have a firewall and hub set up, you are probably violating your terms of service. These guys want you to pay extra for every machine you have hooked up to their service. Of course, this is rediculous and impossible to police.
In Germany:
www.tvtv.de
Allows you to select your programs on the internet and your DVR gets the instructions from the Internet server. The instructions are broadcast in the broadcast signal where the DVR can sort them out for download. They have 8 or 9 countries using this system.
Dumb Americans they are waiting of TVGuide monopoly to cram some remote schedule into a handheld or somesuch. It'll never fly but TVGuide has the US market all to itself.
Another dumb ass implementation mistake along the lines of mobile phones in the US.
The Axis webcam (which is Linux based -- see http://www.axis.com/ ) has both RS232, 10baseT and digital I/O lines.
I think that's sort of beside the point. Even though dialup is standard, most homes have a very limited number of phone lines. Usually one, sometimes two. If you start hooking every appliance up to a phone line, the appliances are going to have the same problem that Homer has when he can't order a pizza because Bart has the phone tied up with a call to Seymore Butts at the bar.
Multiplexing is better.
I use dialup to get to the Internet too, but there's three computers here. If one computer wants to get something from the 'Net, it would be silly to make another computer hang up so the first one can dial. So I just etherneted 'em all, and have one computer (currently an Amiga running Miami Deluxe) handle the dialup PPP. So even though I use dialup internet access, it would still be vastly more convenient (for me) to have appliances that use ethernet instead of modem.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
The first Network computers were produced by Acorn and were equiped with either a modem or a network card.
They were booting amazingly quickly, provided perfect television display (with the nicest anti-aliasing ever) and were damn quick at displaying HTML (NCFresco).
If you can still buy a cheap one on the Net, there are other alternatives still being produced and featuring lots of goodies like a RiscStation or some Oregan product.
The latter supports lots of features includinf Java, but no CSS, though.
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
The reason that these types of devices are still standardizing on a 56K modem, rather than ethernet is because of the target audience of these devices. Everyone (well.. most everyone) has a phone line - but not everyone has ethernet at home. So you make a device for the masses and give it the ability to be used on a phone line.
What I'd like to see is the wiring of a home get cheap enough for the average person to afford, or as was mentioned before, some kind of either wireless or other type of standard, to make these devices work nicely, but not tie up a phone line. There was talk over the last couple of years that the local bells want to get a dedicated line to each address in the US, for high speed access for the common man. I've not yet seen it done on a mass-standard scale, just those that ask for it (cable modem or DSL). I do think that with the advent of both cable modems and dsl that we're going to get to the point where everyone will at least have non-async access to the internet.. but we're not quite there yet. Cable access was only available to where I live this past month, and I live right outside a semi-major city (Green Bay, WI)
Alternatively, I'd like to at least see these new devices have the option when you buy them, to offer ethernet or async, and for very little price difference. That way the average user who has no plans to wire their house up will be able to use the device if he/she wishes, and for those of us who tend to leave networked houses in our wake (I'll be wiring the duplex that I live in with Cat6 shortly), will have the ability to use them at our convenience as well.
{} ------ When I think of a good sig, I'll put it here
its the bridge bit between all your wireless connections and the internet -> and BIF! its got a 56k modem - its got Ethernet.
there has never been a macintosh manufactured which didn't include a networking connection built-in. there has never been a powerPC macintosh manufactured which didn't come with ethernet.
- unix - ready for the year 2020 since 1972.
- macOS - ready for the year 29,950 since 1984.
- windows 98 - not ready for y2k in 1998.
I've only had it for 7 as well, but for at least 4 of those years it left my apartment and travelled underground to my friends apartments, so we had 3 apartments on a 10-base-2 backbone. LAN gaming is much better when you don't have to take your machine anywhere!
- You know what an ethernet card is
- You would know how to set up TCP/IP
Then are the companies really trying to sell their product to you?--Dave
is exactly the reason. Remember, the i-Opener fiasco? The reason those things are so cheap, is the hardware is sold at a loss, and they make it up on the service. Same with TiVo. The TiVo company actually pays Sony, Panasonic, et al, to sell their hardware at a loss, so TiVo can make it back in subscription fees (and kickback some of it to the hardware companies.) The reason most don't have Ethernet is because they can control the service better if you dial directly in to them, instead of going through such an odd medium as the internet.
I recently ran into that dilemma. I signed up for a wireless internet access (long-range derivative of 802.11b) and cancelled my home phone service, leaving only my cell phone as my telephone. Now, on a sunny day (solar panels on my house,) I am drawing absolutely nothing from the local grid. No power, no water (well,) no phone (cell,) no TV (old-fasioned antenna,) and no internet... But, I decided that while I may get a great reception of the broadcast networks, I wanted some better TV (I miss the Discovery Channel.) So, I went off to my local A/V store, and looked around.
We've got DirecTV, Dish, Primestar, and a few others. They all sounded good (Dish has my local channels, DirecTV gets them at the end of this month, so my search focused on those two,) except that they require a POTS line to dial in to their server. Not only once on initial configuration, but also if I ever want to watch pay-per-view. Darn.
Then, there's TiVo. GREAT idea. I went out to pick up the Sony model as soon as it came out. But... That darned modem again. I could still use the hardware as an overpriced VCR, but I'd lose all scheduling capabilities, plus the (in my opinion) best feature, taste matching. Come on, how hard would it have been to ALSO include a $10 NIC chip on there, add on a $0.25 RJ-45 port, and let those of us with broadband connections use them!
But, that brings us back to control... Do you know that TiVo collects the info on every show you watch? I'm sure you've thought about it, but read your contract. It says that they have the right to use any information they collect for aggregate statistical analysis, and targeted promotions. This means that sooner or later, you'll start getting ads that are being sent not by the network, or the cable provider, but by TiVo. TiVo will have such good tracking of your taste (after all, you've been telling them exactly what you do and don't like...) that every ad will be tailor-made for you. So, of course they want to keep control of the transfer medium. They don't want that pesky internet getting in the way of their data mining...
Or, I could be wrong, and they're just too cheap to put $15 of extra hardware on there....
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
It's the iMac. Just pop an AirPort card in there and connect to your home's IEEE 802.11 wireless LAN. Unfortunately, someone at Apple is a moron and you can't get the $799 iMac because it isn't AirPort ready. You have to buy at least the $999 iMac DV to use AirPort. And, even more unfortunate for me is the fact that in order to get an iMac in a color that would look nice in my kitchen I'd have to pay $1,299 for a Sage iMac DV+ or $1,499 for a Graphite iMac DV Special Edition.
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
DSL or Cable Modem or POTS Modem to your LAN connection.
Connects to your LAN, TV, phone, Stereo System, etc...
Typical "Portal-type" applications (email, calendar, news ticker, etc...)
Simultaneous TV & Web surfing
And the kicker...
IM/Chat overlaid onto live TV
But hey, don't take just MY word for it.
Check out what Bob Metcalfe has to say about the Ucentric's System.
--tribs
Apple's AirPort comes closest to this, the only "catch" being that the devices it connects to the network must support wireless networking. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because I would prefer a network appliance that I could put in the kitchen or bathroom without having to drag a lot of wiring around.
I have digital cable at home, and a cable modem. According to the cable company, they plan to one day do everything through the set-top device for digital cable, which does have an ethernet cable so you can connect it to your home network. Of course, this feature still isn't available, but the hardware is already there.
Karma: Non-existant. Due mostly to the fact that you smell funny and nobody likes you.
They're here. See the NIC. We just ordered a second unit. My kids like it better than their somewhat slower PCs and you just can't beat the price.
According to their web page, their internet appliances will have modems and ethernet ports. They say their wireless WebTablet will come out Q4. (I've heard THAT before :P )
They just figured out how to get the Tivo's daily phone call to route itself over a serial PPP link instead of using the modem. Just tie the PPP link into you computer and forward the packets. No more phone line.
but i've heard that sony plans on adding an add-on to the ps2 (optional) to support broadband gaming. They are quite serious about the money to be mad in broadband gaming with the ps2, i think they just want to get people to buy the box first.
The Modem is undeniably the simplest solution for Joe Normal... just plug it in to the wall.
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exception of handg
I wouldn't mind using my Dreamcast to access the web from my living room recliner, but I don't want to pay for a dial-up ISP in addition to my cable modem account.
Has anyone used their Linux box as a PPP server for a Dreamcast, along with some sort of phone system emulator to avoid requiring the use of 2 phone lines? What about one of the free ISPs?
I agree without a doubt that so called "Internet Appliances" should have a ethernet connection. Yes, of course I realize that most americans do not have a ethernet network inside the home. However we need to use technology to help progress the state of networked america. I say follow the Audiotron's (http://www.audiotron.net) exampe, it not only has HPNA2 for people in homes without ethernet AND ethernet for homes that do. Providing this sort of option will not only satisy the needs of everyone but it will help set ethernet networks as the standard in homes across america as well as raising demand for quality broadband connections. With demand we will see higher saturation and lower prices. For a company to impliement ethernet is easy, the APIs are widely avaliable and the hardware is dirt cheap. I beleive that playing to the lowest common denominator is a good thing but I also beleive providing next level options is the key to the future.
I was thinking along these same lines yesterday, and spent some time searching for internet appliances.
what I'm envisioning is a wireless webpad (maybe built with a transmeta chip), talking (bluetooth, perhaps) to a hub connected to my lan, which is connected to cable/dsl.
I know I've seen this somewhere online, I think it was a transmeta demo, but I can't find it anywhere now. am I alone in thinking that this would be a killer device?
If you would configure one of your Linux boxes as an dial-in server then your TiVO could dial into this box and connect to the outside world thru your network setup, Could that you have posted this article cause I really think that manufactures should make more use of cheap standard (pcmcia. usb) etc..
I've been keeping my eye on the Qubit , which is a wireless web tablet that talks to a local base like a cordless phone. They say it includes both dialup and ethernet out of the box and will sell for 300ish. It runs the Be OS and seems to do pretty much everything you could ask in a handheld couch-surfing device. They originally promised it in early 2000, but now they're saying Q4. Joel Risberg
http://www.geektv.net/
These things have flat panel displays. That's why the price is so high.
It's very simple folks. If you want an internet appliance with Ethernet, go to http://www.thinknic.com. $200, all the browsing you want, and 10/100 for those with real connections. We support Real, mp3, ogg vorbis, flash, .doc, and mucho other web content.
I'm surprised nobody has flamed you yet. If you had read the article(s) he is talking about, then you wouldn't be so stupid to say such things.
cos then you could dial your own pc for free and use it as a gateway
.oO0Oo.
even if the number is fixed or some such shit. Sniff it and find what it's looking for
heck use your soundcard to fool it
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Of course a better idea is to just attach it to a home LAN, which would have to be on just about 100% of the time. Of course, if you already have a computer, and enough computers to necessitate a LAN, why the information appliance? Why not just use Google? That, aside from the fact that most ISPs have TOS that forbid home LANs and anything more than one computer from accessing the internet.
In short, internet access technology has to advance by leaps and bounds before information appliances can be really useful.
icqqm [ICQ:11952102]
It simply makes no economic sense, at this time, to offer ethernet on TiVo. When DSL has a larger market penetration, this will change.
--
It's a
-- Danny Vermin
The Sega Dreamcast ships with a modem module. Anyone know of an ethernet card module for the Dreamcast? It would be cool to do networked games over DSL than dialup...
-core
Cost is a big factor. Broadband isn't even available in most households. Thus, putting in ethernet where it would benefit relatively few people would make it cost more for everyone else. In a price-sensitive market, this would be a Bad Thing.
Even if a person does have broadband, not everyone is set up to have either multiple IPs or a router and private IPs to internal networks or any of the other geek things we all have at home. Right?
Tell me you want to explain to your grandma how she has to set up DHCP on this shiny new router connected to a lame-ass PPPoE consumer-grade DSL line so that she can get her TiVo working.
Tell me that the average consumer knows the difference between a Cat-5 connector and a phone jack.
Security is also a factor. If the box was on the net 24/7, someone could conceivably hack info about your viewing habits. For example.
_Deirdre (engineer at TiVo, but speaking for herself)
My question is why hasn't someone turned a linux box into a tivo. I know tivo runs linux in the first place so this shouldn't be impossible. Then you could put whatever type of network connection you wanted on it. Does the supported hardware (ie third party) exist using linux to capture video?
--
Bill
Doesnt the TiVO have a 6 gig HD or something? Maybe the space you dont use you could maybe upload all your MP3's that wont fit on your HD to the TiVO =) Dont know what kind of tcp/ip stack the tivo uses, if any, let alone if it even has filesharing abilities. But that would be pretty cool, almost like to those "Network harddrive" that only have a NIC and a HD.. the tivo could be the first multi-purpose LAN storage device !!!!!
Systems Administrator
Servu Networks
http://www.servuhome.net
Brent Jones
I speculate that this might, possibly, be a minor point of contention with broadcasters (which is to say, their heads would all explode and lawsuits would rain from the heavens like holy fire).
Amazingly the gaming consoles are going to start containing LAN possibilities, Xbox, psx2 (with a USB i think.. but that's 12 mb we can work with that), and maybe the dreamcast. I don't know for sure what this means, but the modem on the dreamcast I have is a module that clips on to the system. If it has an interface, there should be a way to get a NIC on there.
Hey now! all of you are talking about the Need for Standards hell, there's already an RFC for internet connected appliances! RFC2324! (http://sunsite.auc.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc2324.ht ml) the HTCPCP method even handles multiple languages..
My roomate and I got lazy. We ran all the cat5 in the attic then put all the jacks on the ceiling so we wouldn't have to fish them down the walls. Doesn't look too bad that way.
Ahh, A nice legally binding electronic signature...
I read this on tivocommunity.com a few days ago.
Bascially you start a ppp connection over the TiVo's serial port and this allows it to download programming information wihout using the phone line. You can read the whole message here. Very cool stuff.
Gorkman
I have a friend that had gone all cellular. No phone lines at home. He's using digital satellite. He can't buy pay-per-view movies because the thing wants a phone line to pay for them. It's sad that TiVo and satellite receivers are so high-tech, yet depend on such low-tech stuff.
aem
Asoki Total System Care
Inicom, Inc.
-a.e.mossberg
I thought the phone company required those filters to be installed when the DSL was hooked up... and even now that some of them are letting people hook up their own DSL from the home end, they still provide you with filters to install? *shrug*
Default gateways, ARP entries, DHCP, NAT, firewalls, proxys ... it's all a bit much for an "appliance" company to support. Would you like to explain to your dishwasher company what version of ipfwadm you have?
OTOH, anyone with a dial tone can use a modem.
www.qubit.com. Supposed to have ethernet in the base station.
I'm sure the last thing any of these companies wants is to have businesses, who normally foprk over way too much money for PCs to begin with, to start using these appliances. By only including a modem, they're sending the message that this is an at-home only product. Assholes.
I myself have a dedicated phone line just to my computer room, even though I also have a cable modem.
::shudders:: )
The reason? Simple, I don't like cell phones! I honestly can't stand the damn things (being antisocial and all, I see no reason to own one, and since I don't go outside much I have no reason to think that I will be stuck in an avalanch soon!)
I really would perfer a device with a ethernet port on it, @Home rents out Static IP's at the ridiculasly low price of $5.95 a month (upto a max of three, and I have 2 in use already, so I might have to setup a proxy, ugh.) but there is one thing that people are managing to forget here:
If the gaming service ISP is good (for dreamcast and such) then whether its modem or broadband doesn't really matter. In all honesty after awhile your KP/S becomes irrelivent (28.8 is actualy fast enough, believe it or not!) but rather your latency/ping time becomes far more important (not going to bother to differiate between latency and ping, it has already been done WAY better then I could ever hope to define it.)
If I am getting a ping of 60-100 to a local server, but I am only connected at 33.6 (my lines can to 56k, but with all of the backround interference in my computer room, even sheilded twisted pair cables get really f-ed up, can we say florecent lights?
The basic point I am trying to make, is that what I want is a good gaming service, and if I am going to have to pay my $9.95 a month either way (fat chance, I'll find some way around the fee!) I mine as well take the easiest to use rout. If that means an auto-config ethernet card (why can't somebody get those working? Auto-config servers exist, but are never used by ISPs, pisses me off!) or a good ol' analog modem, then so be it.
In other words;
just make the damn things work! (which would be a first for the entertainment industry!)
*cough* x-band *cough*
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Karma gets frozen when you have more then 50, you moron
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Actully, no. My parents have DSS through Echostar, and you don't have to connect it to the phone line unless you want to watch the pay per view channels. I know this because they never had thier recievers connected to the phone line, and have never had any problems caused by that.
I don't know if Primestar and Dircet TV require a phone connection at all, but if they do, you might look at Echostar, usaily you just pop in the smart card they give you and you're all set.
BTW you can also get your local channels through them, too, but you may want to keep your antenna. Usailly, DSS providers pick local stations that are local to them, but may not be local to you. For example, one provider that offers local stations might pick a local station (more likely a network affileate station nowadays) located someware in Gaorga. This is fine if you're in Gaorga, but a real PTA if you live elseware. Also, your antanna could come in handy if the satallite signal gets scrambled, which often happens during major storms and harsh weather.
DHCP is really an easy enough protocol for most any device. There are already quite a few "Broadband switches" that act as a DHCP client and server as well as a firewall. (As a bad firewall)
With the advent of ethernet available appliances we will most likely see the next version of ethernet/internet access support much of this in the providers interface. (Not the monkey boy cable modems of today, but the internet pipe to your futurehome.) The technologies are still in their infancies. Over the next 20 years we will see the PC as we know it become obsolete in favor of appliances. As this trend begins the market leaders will be those that bring this to someone other than the geeks and the freaks.
All you need is 172.16 class addresses beyond the firewall anyway. DHCP will do a fine job of this. The last thing we need is a new protocol to muck things up. (Although for the rest of the world a new protocol will need to come and soon...)
The only reason to go with another protocol would be that it would work better on a chip level, hence would integrate better in smaller appliances. The one that shall rule them all is the one that is the easiest to use and the most difficult to hack. *SIGH*
~Hammy
"I did not have sex with that woman..." B.C.
People have slowly jumped on the web, now it is time for you appliances to. At this time the only people who are going to jump on the net are going to get their kitchen online are going to be those who are a little more techincally savvy then your average consumer. Hell you average consumer is having enough trouble trying to figure out why his isp is giving him a 650 no dial tone error. The argument that most consumers are still using dial up isn't really valid. The ones that are going to buy products like this are computers junkies. These people are going to have dsl or cable. They are going to have firwall to protect their information. Because right now only these linux admins and netscape activist has the know how and money to buy and use these devices. They should come with an ethernet because it is going to be a little while before john doe jumps on the band wagon of internet appliances. And by then dsl will be the standard, and something else will be on the horizon. Not to mention the fact that if these device had ether you could setup a network and dial out from your computer anyway to get you tvio on the inernet. Exchange info with your devices. Watch dvd movies from other monitors around the house, allow you toaster to schedule with your alarm clock ... things like that.
If you can't fix it ask the 3 year old down the street.
I am just getting caught up on two-day-old stories as I write this and see that no one who posted a highly rated response knew about the NIC (www.thinknic.com.)
It has ethernet and sells for under $400 delivered, complete with monitor and speakers. It even runs Linux.
Of course, the Slashdot train has long since moved on, so no one who wants the information will ever see this.
There must be a better way.
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Warning: It is a federal offense to impersonate The President.
sega is coming out with an ethernet card for their dreamcast - this module simply replaces the included modem. http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/19906.html i know i would have already purchased a tivo as well as a kitchen email/news reading appliance had their been optional ethernet modules for them.