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Apple's Bonjour Available for Windows
inblosam writes "Apple's Bonjour ('also known as zero-configuration networking, enables automatic discovery of computers, devices, and services on IP networks') is now available for Windows! A Bonjour icon shows up in Internet Explorer to enable Bonjour browsing, along with the Bonjour Printer Wizard. Developers can download the Bonjour SDK. The benefits would appear to be for Apple customers (more Bonjouring with more networks) and to gain Apple switchers by enticing Windows customers."
Explain to me again, what's the difference between Bonjour and Rendezvous?
I've been using 2 networked Mac's at home for 2 years now (powerbook, ibook, wlan, ethernet), but never seen this Bonjour stuff. Always connect directly to my samba server etc. Oh wait maybe my Airport talks bonjour?
The glass is half-full. With poison. And there are cracks in the glass. The dirty, dirty glass.
The americans will rename this to Freedom Discoverer anyway.
It's well and good that Apple wants to give us Windows developers something to play with, but this sounds a lot like UPnP. Anyone familiar with both care to comment on the differences?
In short, yes, it was.
We Build Beautiful Websites
iTunes, Quicktime?
N o .
The first time? No. QuickTime, for one.
Are you forgetting about Quicktime and iTunes and Rendezvous (yes i know rendezvous and bonjour are the same thing) and Airport Admin utility etc.... ?
Yes, Bonjour is Rendezvous renamed. Here's some info on that.
itunes.
quicktime.
For exempel... When you got a OSX server up and running. And you got another OSX machine in the network. Just open Server Admin. The machine find the server just when you open the program.
Or when you are sitting in a network, open itunes. suddenly all the peoples that share there music with itunes pops up in the playlist. So you can play there songs...
Great! More apple apps on Windows along the lines of quicktime and itunes. Longhorn is coming along in bytes and pieces (if we take Gates' word for it).
Am gonna put my last pennies to good use by buying shares of RAM manufactures. Mark my words, with all the ppl rushing to upgrade, there's explosive growth there!
Yes, I was forgetting about them :)
But what I meant was that this seems to be different since it is something that is apparently more tightly tied in to how the OS work, IMHO.
Don't try to fix me. I'm not broken.
Say that I'm a windows user, used to (or obliged to use) ie and windows explorer..
Say that I'm already in a network, since I`m downloading Bonjour and browsing this trashy website..
Say that at some point there is another PC in the network that I need to find..
Say that the other computer is also a windows PC, as 90% of all PC`s are..
Then what is the point?
In iTunes 4.7 Apple restricted this feature. You can only play music from 3 other playlists every 24 hours. This was in response to pressure from RIAA as university networs were becoming a smorgasbord of free-to-listen music through iTunes sharing.
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Appleworks Office suite is offered for Windows as well - Schools with mac and windows labs used it on both to guarantee cross-compatibility
(Appleworks was based on the cross-platform Claris Office which was bought up by Apple)
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
"The Bonjour Printer Wizard will only discover printers being shared by the Mac OS X "Printer Sharing" feature when the Macintosh is running Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger or later."
What happens in the evenings?!
And what about Linux?
Or is it just assumed "Zero configuration" and "linux" are inherently incompatible concepts
Apple does know that there are other browsers on Windows platforms other than MSIE, right?
I'm sure it probably works fine with Opera, Firefox, etc, but why talk about "the Internet Explorer plugin"?
And if by some chance it doesn't work with non-Microsoft browsers then what the hell is Apple thinking about? Surely further tying users to Microsoft and Microsoft's way of thinking is contrary to Apple's long-term goals?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
KDE added support with 3.4, for example the public file server advertises itself over zeroconf (same protocol, different name). So this is starting to look like a good technology for those in a heterogenous environment
I am trolling
Does this mean that Xgrid may also hit the Windows side of the moon?
I don't have too much knowledge of the nuts and bolts of Xgrid, but ZeroConf networking seems to me the first step to porting it on Windows. After all, it is not too much different than distributed number crunching projects (e.g. SETI@Home), or is it?
An "HP Mac" might have been an interesting concept, say, 6 years ago, but today it wouldn't get me expecting anything but a "me too" product.
Now, an "IBM Mac" or a "Sony Mac" just might because IBM (despite the proposed sale of the PC division) and Sony have at least shown an ability to innovate desktop and notebook design, whereas HP, Dell and the rest of the field have barely contributed anything significant in a long time, if at all.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
"Condi? Condi!!! Those damn French have invaded my computer! Look, they're saying hi right here..."
An IBM Mac would make more sense. IBM already make more-or-less Mac compatible hardware (i.e. hardware that can run OS X inside Mac-On-Linux - similar to VMWare - but not boot it natively). They also target a very different market to Apple - IBM focus on the corporate desktop and the scientific / engineering workstation, while Apple focus on the consumer and the creative / artistic workstation market. Allowing IBM to be a second-source of OS X hardware would be a huge benefit to Apple, without cutting much into their profits - particularly if IBM were selling OS X Server hardware, where Apple would be making several hundred dollars of profit on each IBM sale.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Apple wont be doing that ,The clone macs caused apple alot of problems mostly related to the fact that it cut proffits by brobdignagian ammounts.
Quite simply , apple makes a hell of alot more off of hardware and support(not so sure about support though) than they do off of software so it would not be in their best intrests.
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
It made me very happy to find that Linux has support for it and that even better support is under way. http://dot.kde.org/1114696139/
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
From TFA:
Now anyone using a Windows PC can take advantage of the effortlessness of Bonjour for free. The Bonjour Setup Wizard makes setting up a printer under Windows as easy as Mac OS X (we can't make it as beautiful, unfortunately).
Cool.
Ydco co
Au revoir?
..since all networked HP printers built in the last few years have Bonjour support built in to the JetDirect software.
A home brew nano ITX mac would be even more interesting, I wouldnt touch an HP with a barge pole in a condom.
I see increasing amount of open source project popular to BSD and Linux, yet very few Apple projects being ported to BSD or Linux.
Like most Apple technologies, Bonjour/Rendezvous kicks ass on Mac OS X because of its ubiquity on the platform. You get the odd suprise, like high end laser printers supporting it, but the only time I've ever really seen it supported and used effectivly is between two macs. IMHO, the only reason the technology is even remotely effective is that you get the 'it just works' user experience 'out of the box'. The problem with this current distribution plan seems to be that if you can download and install the software, you probably don't need it as ZeroConf is only a bonus if you don't understand networking. To be truely effective it needs to be available as standard on the platform. It would be great if it appeared in SP3.
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
"The Bonjour Printer Wizard will only discover printers being shared by the Mac OS X "Printer Sharing" feature when the Macintosh is running Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger or later."
Can you name me more than 3 people on this planet that have a Mac based printer server? And whats with the IE plug-in? why would anyone even write an IE plug-in??
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I think the control of hardware has to do with both profit and quality control. If MAC OSX was installed with any off-the-shelf hardware, I would expect to see more memory dumps/crashes at a rate unheard of before in the history of Apple.
I think Apple wants stability and reliability to be synonymous with its branding. Thus, the anal QC over hardware and software.
For the record, I'm not a Mac user and nor have I ever been. But...I have been thinking about testing the waters soon.
Life is not for the lazy.
brilliant answer! oh, i get it, someone knows how to push the right windows buttons but doesn't want to admit he's all about 'good practice' and that his MSCE barber shop diploma isn't worth the used asswipe it's printed on. go shine your $50 shoes and pick the lint of your outlet store jacket.
Isn't this some kinda psychological warfare where Apple releases apps to fill the missing functionality of Windows, only to make Windows XP look outdated and to promote Tiger? What will be their next step? Some neat windowmanagement tricks like Exposé ported to Windows?
ZeroConf is the official name, Apples used to use Rendezvous, now it's Bonjour.
You won't have seen it advertised explicitly, it simply sits and works.
It is used for sharing in the iApps:
iTunes
iPhoto
chatting in iChat
Finding servers to use in the Server Admin tools,
Transmit (the Panic FTP client) supports it,
It is used to find file shares on the network, using AFP
Anywhere networking just happens, without having to do anything more than simply turn it on chances are Bonjour is behind it.
Alex
Bonjour has invoked an illegal operation and will be shutdown. Windows needs to be rebooted.
Au revoir!
Yes.... but will it allow me to play Microsoft Freecell with others over Bonjour?
Why, in this day and age, is it necessary to 'restart' the whole friggin machine?
/user:administrator".
It's necessary when you're trying to change a file that's currently in memory. But the windows installer framework, for several years now, gives you the chance to shut down applications using locked files so you don't have to reboot. You can refuse and you'll have to reboot.
In this case I can't imagine it needs a reboot; it's probably hooking something into IE or explorer, or maybe installing a device driver or service - they're probably skimping on testing by only supporting service start-up on reboot, it's cleaner environment to work from. Even if they're hooking something deep into the IP stack they could easily restart all networking on the machine.
Is there a multi-user version of windows yet? Why do I have to log out as 'user' before I can log on as 'administrator'?
Yes, Windows XP lets you switch between users and separate desktops unless it's attached to a domain. But you can only be one user at once, and remote-desktopping in (XP Pro only) kicks off the console user.
You can always use "runas
Now the question is wether we'll eventually see Mac OS X for x86...........
Guess it will only work for the local network. Routers and switches will not forward adverts to other networks ... :(
Fedora Core 3 includes an mDNS responder, look for guides for installing itunes daap and using it to advertise to itunes
"Now the question is wether we'll eventually see Mac OS X for x86..........."
STFU dunce.
Just tried Bonjour on Windows, and it automatically detected our two network printers : one's an HP LaserJet 3030 (with a network box) and the other is a Lexmark C510N. I'm really glad I can at last uninstall all the crap that comes with the drivers to make them work... And I won't have to define network ports that crash or fail to detect network names again! Nobody will come ever again to tell me "the printer doesn't work"... I'll switch all our computers to Bonjour as soon as I can. Thanks Apple.
On my Mac, I can can browse bonjour sites on my local network in Safari. What is really cool is that my TiVo shows up. If you have the latest TiVo software (the version that added support for TiVoToGo) You can actually browse and download the .tivo files without using TiVo Desktop. If you are already doing this by http://ip/ you may like that bonjour makes it so you don't need to know the IP address, you just bookmark the *.local address. I assume that this also works with bonjour for windows. It's very useful.
If Apple were going to release a set-top box as part of a home entertainment package that needed to network with PCs, maybe this would be part of the installation.
*cough*
I've run into a few bugs with Bonjour:
I keep getting IM coupons for French Roast Coffee.
When I play German music on iTunes, all the Bonjour connections surrender and vanish.
QuickTime unexpectedly opens a connection and begins playing Jerry Lewis films.
iTunes insists that I listen to European Jazz Internet Radio at least once a day.
And Bonjour works best only in trendy art café hot-spots while the end user smokes clove cigarettes.
I'm sure Apple will correct these issues when they update OS X 'Tiger'
to
OS X 'La petite femme'.
Looks like Bonjour is patent free. In todays sue happy corporate battle ground it looks like the clear winner is the one that is quick to market and has less overhead.
I predict Bonjour will win, even though Bill Gates will throw a fit.
I also predict that a new security update will make bonjour not work or crash. We really want the Old Microsoft back, from the days of DR-DOS, WordPerfect and Lotus 123.
Your Average Joe
Would TrueType count?
quality put down!.. I havent laughed like that in a while!... mod parent up +5 belly laugh
Obviously, they want you to use IE.
... let me rethink this one.
That way, when your machine gets bogged down by using all of its disk space for IE cache, all its bandwidth to send malware spam, and all its processor power on "security" features, you'll be forced to upgrade to Linux.
Oh, wait
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Of course what you meant to say was "Bonjour halo effect". Psychological warfare is so last century, anyway, these days it's all about "market engineering".
They should concentrate on makeing their software more compatable with AD. I just spent the greater part of last week configuring an xserve to play nicely on a Windows network. PITA - you have to jump through hoops (Kerberos setup using command tools) for single sign on, Windows clients on xserve shares, etc. Next time I am buying another Windows 2000 server! I can have that running in hours, not days.
I'll give it a try, but only after they have a "Cheese Eatin' Surrender Monkeys" option...
This is some of the coolest use of the technology: SubEthaEdit lets a group of people work on a document at the same time using Bonjour. This is the way networking should work. If the boys there get their act together and create a Windows (and Linux) version, this app could be used everywhere!
It's a well known fact that Apple, since its inception, has been a haven for "free thinkers" and "progressive thought," heralded by none other than famous acid-tripping Steve Jobs and his hippy buddies from California. It was on one of the famous beach parties, notorious for getting out of hand, that Clarus was born.
It was a balmy night in August 1983 that Jobs held yet another beach party, this one with a special theme: who could come up with a mascot for the Mac development team? Of course, the Apple II team was there and tensions, as always, were high. That didn't deter the Mac team from bringing their "pet," Clara, a cow they'd been raising on the Apple campus since birth.
Clara was birthed by the Mac team when they'd held a party on the Apple campus and had hired a bull-breeder as entertainment. All night long, the bull-breeder studded Hercules, his prize bull, with an assortment of cows. As the festivities continued throughout the night, a strange moaning was coming from one of the trailers. One of the cows he'd brought with him was, unbeknownst to the bull-breeder, pregnant! The Mac development team, being the resourceful hackers they were, helped give birth to the calf, the mother losing its life in the process. The bull-breeder was so taken by the Mac dev team's efforts he let them keep the cow, which they named Clara.
Now, at the August 1983 beach party, the Mac team lobbied for Jobs to adopt Clara as the development mascot of the Macintosh. The Apple II team, spurned and bitter because of dwindling sales and neglect at the hand of Jobs, had brought their own mascot-- Cletus, a vicious Rotweiler they'd bought from a ruddy-faced street man in the ghetto of Cupertino for $25. Cletus was a frothing, flea-and-mange ridden terror that barked at the least provocation. The Apple II team fed it raw goat meat and corrupted 5.25 floppies to make it mean. They also kicked it and made sure its chain was too tight at all time. Here at the party was their chance for revenge at Jobs and his favorite Mac development team.
As the night wore on, both the Apple II and Mac teams got drunker and drunker before Jobs called for a company vote on the mascot. What met the company's faces was something none of them could have imagined, however.
In their drunken, stoned stupor, the embittered Apple II team had snuck into Clara's trailer and cut the rear end of off Clara! Drugging her with ether to staunch her cries, they had used an electric chainsaw, cut her back legs and rectum cleanly off, and taken them to the bonfire to cook and eat. They'd even fed some to the drunk Mac dev team! After they'd done this, they forced Cletus into the gaping hole in Clara's rear end. Gnawing away at his first real meal in months, Cletus lodged himself in Clara's colon and couldn't break free. So when the Mac dev team opened Clara's trailer and led their pet down the ramp, they were met with a bloody, gut-strewn mess and a weird, unnatural animal call of "moof!"
The entire company was sickened by this and soon the sand was dotted with puddles of vomit. Cries of "moof, moof!" filled the air as the joined dog-cow trundled terribly along the beach, seizuring with each step, vomiting an icky mass of hair and blood, with a glazed look in its cow eyes. With a final shudder, the dog-cow fell and died, and the partygoers surrounded the putrid mess of bovine/canine flesh. Of course, it didn't take long for the Mac dev team to discover the Apple II team's treachery and a bloody brawl ensued over the death of Clara. By the end of the night, the cow, the dog, and the Apple II team were simple piles of broken, bloody bones.
In light of the events that night, Jobs had no other choice to commemorate the tragic events that had unfurled and therefore made Apple's development mascot the dog-cow, "Clarus," a merging of the two animals names-- Cletus and Clara.
And that, for those who didn't know, is the origin of Clarus the dog-cow. Every time you click on a Mac OS Easter-egg that utters "moof," you can look back to the terrible events that August, 1983 night at the Apple beach party that brought you the Clarus, the Apple dog-cow.
bonjour bonjour bonjour...
you know when you say a word so many times that it starts to lose its meaning?
After the meal, over a delightful little bottle of 1992 Pinot Grigiot, he leaned over and said to me in a conspiratorial tone, "Hermann, for that is your true name, why do you insist on stalking me, you pompous delusional fuckwit? We're not having lunch; rather you have just prostrated yourself on the ground in front of me in an attempt to slather on my boots. As an intern in accounts receivable, you have no more right to use the royal "we" than a cockroach. Begone filth".
Jobs has a way of being tangential, elusive, not saying what he really means. I recall, back when we founded Apple in my garage in 1976, etc etc ...
As best as I can figure, Bonjour for Windows only seems to be a client. I can't tell if it has the ability to share printers yet. Anyone got info on this?
As far as this being a marketing ploy on Apple's part, let's face it, it's just as much a marketing ploy for Apple, as it was for Microsoft to start making Internet Explorer and Office for Macs. It's nothing new, just Apple's attempt to spread their technology. Everyone does it, even the FOSS guys (gVIM for Windows, MPlayer binaries for OS X and Windows, FireFox for every imaginable platform).
Rawr
That would be like when a Windows box decides it can't get an IP from a DHCP server and gives itself an APIPA address (169.254.x.x) right?
Great. Because I've always found that feature MASSIVELY FUCKING USEFUL.
"Zeroconf is designed to bring the "It Just Works" Apple swagger to IP networks."
I sense a great force disturbance around Seattle,WA.
What are you talking about... apple sales have reached an all time high
Getting Apple tools ported over to windows is a nice start. Now let's see OSX so I can dump windows but not all of my hardware.
Will this lead to a new book in the famous "Dummies" series titled Wardriving for Dummies?
Thanks.
:-)
My computer experience progressed as...
PDP8 & 11
HP MX series & TRS-80
MS-DOS & big CDC iron
SunOS & NT
Linux & NT-2000
with a smattering of other unix flavors mixed in over the years
but i've only used the 'windows' stuff for running tax prep software
So I can runas from the command line? Looks like it. Will give it a try next time 2000 is running.
It's the official name of the IETF working group that came up with the Dynamic Configuration of IPv4 Link-Local Addresses draft. www.zeroconf.org
Troller, Zeroconf is an IETF standard - http://www.zeroconf.org/.
Seems to me that this technology has been available on Windows, Linux, FreeBSD for quite some time now in the form of Howl. It's an opensource library that supports Rendezvous/Zero Conf. I've used it for a while now to do all sorts of fun stuff. In fact, the responder portion of it even runs on the WRT54G boxes.
The only difference here is that this is the blessed client by Apple.
My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
I really don't get how someone thinks this will get people to convert to apple. OK, so you port some really great app or function of the apple to windows. Why do I want to leave windows? The function is already on my native OS. It's only after I realize that something is so great isn't available for windows that I would want to switch. apple doesn't have enough market exposure to cause a serious exodus from windows.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Does this mean Del Boy can finally say Bonjour to all that poncing about with IP addresses?
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
if you would have RTFA you would see that you must have Tiger (10.4) or better.
*A* HP (Haitch Pee), not *AN* HP ('aitch Pee), please.
You can only drop the "H" in "Haitch" when it is neither the first letter in an abbreviation nor emphasised. So, HTML is Haitch-tee-em-el, but PHP is Pee-'aitch-pee.
Seems to me Apple needs to update the Cocoa frameworks for operations on the modern NT variants (2000/XP).
Seems to me they may already me doing that, what with QT7 being a Cocoa app (and I wouldn't be surprised to find iTunes is not far behind).
Seems to me we may see Apple pushing back into the cross-platform application development arena very soon, as a hook to customers to move off Carbon on the OS X platform...
???
when what they could really be doing is adding tsig-gss support to it (and while they're at it, bind), so that they can actually inter-operate with AD's DNS (and not create their own little world).
This could be very useful for mobile laptop users. Many times, I have had access to a conference network for Internet but no way to print, and no way to find out if there actually _is_ a printer. Bonjour could fix this.
I have a small mixed home network, and Windows 2000 has no trouble finding the shared directory on my Mac (OS X), but OS X is very bad at finding my Windows shares. It used to work sporadically, and after the last OS X upgrade doesn't work at all. In this (one, singular) respect Windows networking seems to work better than OS X.
"If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." -
Is this only for SOHO networks or is there a use in a massive AD deployment?
Is this like old MS NETBEUI unroutable, or does it survive beyond the first router?
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
This has already been done; it was called "NeXTStep for Intel Processors". It was essentially a flop, in large part because of lack of device drivers for the myriad of x86 hardware out there.
Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
Can somebody explain to me what ZeroConf has got over UPnP? There is a lot of industry momentum around UPnP already (most routers ship with it for instance), it's an open standard, and there are open-source implementations of it as well. Is ZeroConf a result of Apple not-invented-here, or does it do something fundamentally different than UPnP?
Why not? Sometimes the right word is just what you need to jog your thinking process in a new (insightful) way. Sometimes just writing a single number can give you insight into life, the universe, and everything:
42
There has been a Java version for a while now?
jmdns.sourceforge.net/
Why is a windows version a big deal?
A version of Xgrid for win32 and linux would be awesome.
An "HP Mac" would be an interesting concept.
I dunno... HP "anything" has ceased to be an interesting concept under any circumstances.
Yes, I'm still bitter about them gutting the RPN calculator group.
It works really well too. 127.0.0.1 is always assigned to my Ethernet card without fail and there is no DHCP server on my network.
I don't have an account.
What more confession do you want.
I had sex with a chick who has a bf (that is my friend) while I have a GF.
I fell like a piece of shit about it.
I've been asking god to help me all day.
Saw it already thanks, guess it is time to try Zeroconf again.
I haven't upgraded to Tiger yet on my macs, and Bonjour appears to still be known as Rendezvous. Does this mean I can't get my windows machines onto the mac network until a Tiger upgrade? My PC isn't seeing any Bonjour printers after installing Bonjour client.
Powerbook G4/1.5GHz 12", Toshiba Satellite 1135-S1554
iTunes for windows = SLOW BLOATED GUI
Quicktime for windows = SLOW BLOATED GUI + crashey
maybe this WILL be a first...
I don't honestly believe that any more. Sure they make a lot on iPods, but surely they make more money selling Tiger for $129 and iLife for $79 than selling a Mac mini with both included for $499.
I can't imagine theres a lot of margins on a $291 PC.
Apples major selling point is now its software, the operating systems, and professional creative software. It's the OS people are after, not the hardware.
"Taligent is still pure vapor. Maybe they'll be the last who jumps up on Openstep... "
not so much that French is hip, but "something-you're-not" is
my brother tells me the story of when bicycling through belgium, he came across a guy customizing a hod-rod car. on the side were painted the words "sweet girl." when asked, the belgian responded that he wanted something that looked/sounded exotic. A U.S. equivalent might be "cherchez le femme" (or "churchy lafemme" for you Pogo fans...)
I think that it just has to be in a different language. it promotes the need for some one to ask you what it is. makes you feel smart (though possibly only relative to the person asking... (think bad lawyers and latin.)) I suppose it helps that in the U.S. certain languages/accents have come to be hung with certain stereotypes. BBC style British accent=intelligent, French accent=sexy (or stuck-up (or both, for that matter)), Italian=short tempered gangster/lothario. But in all of these cases the primary thing that the accent or the foreign word implies is simply the sense of the exotic.
In the rest of the world, French was/is frequently considered the international language. though with the advent of airtravel, and by necessity international air-traffic control, that has been moving to english for some time. (most computer languages also have their basis in english (keywords and syntax rules for instance.) I find it fairly interesting that ruby, (developed, as far as I know) primarily in Japan, still uses english for the major keywords.)
Finding a name that is not "sue-able" or offensive is a tricky thing. Exxon spent a lot of time and money looking for a new name when Esso was broken up and managed to find that the XX was uncommon or non-existent in all known languages. The fact that Exxon itself eventually became something of an epithet is unrelated, (but pleasantly ironic.)
Rendezvous, at least, had come into relatively common english parlance.
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
This isn't exactly new. There was an SDK available for Windows more than a year ago when it was still called Rendezvous.
Thanks for my first Friday laugh!
Trolling is a art,
And Appleworks. . and oh yeah, the Macintosh operating system that was shamelessly copied.
SEE uses Bonjour to discover documents on the local network, but that's all Bonjour does for it or any other program. That's nice, but all the stuff that really makes SEE cool-- the shared buffer, user highlighting, etc-- has nothing to do with Bonjour
I usually find it to be the other way around.. also the mac osx client seems to see shares that you cannot (not supossed to see) on windows with a vpn into a windows enterprise network that shall remain nameless.
"Bonjourrr", ya cheese-eating surrender monkeys. ~ G.K. Willy
Ok, I'm sorry but that is funny. Creating a spoof ID and posting as that poor guy, just to make fun of him is a lot of work. Not nice either.
Funny, though.
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
Bonjour hooks into the TCP/IP stack -- how else do you think "ping your-stupid-macs-name.local" returns something worthwhile?
Apple has been spared the fate of PC manufacturers (reduction to comodity box assemblers,) and, Linux-like, nearly gives away the software. (Must piss off Microsoft no end. :-)
Apple has defied the tide, makes a decent buck and is out innovating the Microsoft and the box assemblers.
The market forces that permitted Microsoft to decimate the sources of hardware innovation by switching production to smaller and smaller assemblers while forcing component makers to use fewer and fewer chassis are the very same ones that have also put a limit on Microsoft's ability to respond to ANY innnovation.
They have reached their limit to growth. Their success in the x86 market has in fact limited them to the x86 market. If they hadn't been so successful at it, they wouldn't be in this pickle.
Apple will adapt because it can, as the revenue streams of iTunes and iPod prove.
Microsoft was always parasitic and its 'hosts', the supply chain of huge chassis manufacturers and of mom-n-pop box assemblers, are now weakened to the point that they can't respond to ANY threat.
Microsoft will make a fascinating business case to study in the next century.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
...because I like to be the jerk who ruins jokes with a Snopes reference.
Setting up a network takes slightly more brain power than that generated by a petri dish full of E. coli.
-rsw
Fellow slashdotters. You've been deceived again.
I've been using Bonjour/Rendezvous since about July/August of last year.
But then again... repeated articles, stale news, or advertisements... on slashdot? never...
Deja Vu
n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
that's interesting, my experience is the total opposite. My (now) tiger osx machine can always find the shares on my xp pro box, but xp doesn't like finding the osx share.
Am I the only person terrified at the thought of a comprehensive automatic network configurator that is (at least by name) French? I mean - I've been through De Gaulle airport. The thought of deploying that kind of design expertise on my network makes me somewhat apprehensive.
When next group member arrive, I don't need to type the ip and port numbers of the printers behind our jetdirect server. No matter the new guy will use Windows, Mac or Linux.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
...rebooted
Loaded up VLC (watching the latest episode of CSI download via bittorrent).
What'da know... I can get a clean playback... skips, pixlization, lost audio, etc.
uninstalled Bonjour and life is good again.
Jesus fscking christ, Apple. If you're going to release Windows software, at least make sure it's ready for prime time.
Is anyone else getting in a weird loop of web pages when they try to download? When I click the download link, it takes me to the OSX information page. I can't seem to get the actual download.
What this means is that my PC with this service installed can be hijacked by someone with proper knowledge of UPnP.
All they have to do is plug in a UPnP device with IP and routing capabilites on my very large network, give me an IP address on their logical network, and route me through their device.
Then they can do with my traffic whatever they want.
This usually happens when a UPnP WIFI AP is plugged into a LAN port by an n00b, and the DHCP server is configured and turned on.
Right? This is what this service is used for?
Or did I misunderstand?
So are these rules you just made up just now?
In standard US English speech, pronounciation of the letter 'H' is never aspirated. So HTML is 'aitch-tee-em-el' and HP is 'aitch-pee', and 'An HP' is correct.
Nope, they make very little money off of Tiger (and probably more but not much off of iLife). The software development costs eat most of those fees.
And it isn't $291. Apple goes the route of shipping a computer and including the software free. A Mac Mini with no OS and no software, if you somehow got ahold of such a thing, would be $499.
Is this the first time Apple releases software that works on Windows?
QuickTime...
iTunes...
Maybe you didn't read his question, he said WORKS on Windows, not runs on Windows.
I wouldn't define "runs & functions like shit" to be "working."
Exhibit A
Yeah, they weren't at an all-time high in 2004, although they were on an upswing in terms of raw numbers sold.
Exhibit B
But come 2005, their unit sales were up 43%. So, taking a 3500KMac as the 2004 number, that means the 2005 number is around 5000KMac, which beats the 1996 spike.
So, apparently the ad campaign is working better than you think.
That phrase and Windows are synonymous.
Then they're the same place.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
multi-messenger client for windows trillian has supported the mac rendezvous protocol since version 3 - which automatically detects other local machines, and allows you to send them instant messages over your LAN. yes, instant messages, not seconds of delay (MSN).
Tried it, and indeed they fixed it... zerconf now recognizes the shared printers, does not help with non network aware (Canon) drivers however, but that is not Apples fault.
[..]and to gain Apple switchers by enticing Windows customers."
I too am an Apple switcher. I power down every Mac I come across.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Does all name resolution go through TCP/IP? I'd be surprised. Can't you use WINS over Netbios, or is that just versions past?
In any case, I stand by what I said:Think about when you're upgrading network drivers on Windows: it just stops the driver, replaces it and restarts it. No reboot required. You haven't needed to reboot for that sort of thing since Windows 2000.
Do you honestly think Apple sells itself copies of Tiger and iLife at retail to install them on its machines?
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
or hamburger by the germans
or frankfurturs by the germans...
anybody got any more?
btw, anyone else see "better of dead" with john cusack?
"frawnch fries, frawnch toast... "etc. imdb doesn't have that quote... I kept waiting for her to serve the "frawnch tickler"
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
Although you might like to see a skinnable iTunes on WIndows, they are not providing it free just for fun - they are providing it free to further advertise Apple, and to stick a candle of GUI flame into a otherwise blackened pit of dispair.
:-) ) but it is there to give people a sense of what using Apple apps is like and to provide motivation for switchers.
Ok, perhaps that last part is a little strong (
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
With both Apple and Google adding so many enhancements to Windows, is there really a point to Microsoft even completing Longhorn development anymore?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That would be hooking into the sockets API, then, not the TCP/IP stack, and looking at my debug output in DevStudio since installing Bonjour I see it's using DLL injection to get its work done - nasty, but a long way from kernel-level work.
My assumption is it reboots so that all the applications on the machine get the new DLL, otherwise you would see some apps give Bonjour lookups and some give regular DNS lookups. It probably isn't strictly necessary given a decent ReadMe.
Confirmed by the fact that the standard Windows build of NSLOOKUP *will not* return addresses in the local. domain, but programs like PING will. This is because NSLOOKUP has its own DNS code whereas PING uses the sockets API.
No, those aren't made up rules. He's using proper grammar. Do you think it's proper to say "an house is not an home"? Of course not. The usage is based on the syllabant sound of the word, not on the convoluted example you site of phonectically spelling out each letter and basing it on that. When the word begins with a vowel sound (it's an honor have a house) you should use "an." Otherwise, use "a" with the syllabant sound.
This is the sort of thing that really grates on the ears of true GrammarNazis.
No, you're both wrong. The QJT uses the MPLE version of the EKTCL. FHD said that not only was IOR recognized as a viable JRTA but it even qualified as a TJRJA! I think that's pretty MRANB, myself.
*hiding the fact that whole conversion went over his head*
Mod this funny, not troll. I suppose it all depends on knowledge of the reference though.
There are a lot of apps that use Rendezvous (Bonjour) and it's nice to see exactly what's going on. There are a lot more things using it than you might know. Gaim uses it to chat with iChat users, most modern printers use it, sshd, ftpd, httpd servers and clients use it, etc. etc. etc.. If you'd like to see what information is being exchanged, check out Rendezvous Browser. It's lists all the Rendezvous services that are being advertised on the network.
:)
After you've dug into that you might want to check out Rendezvous Proxy which lets you create custom Rendezvous beacons, advertising services for servers which don't have native Rendezvous support and servers which aren't in your LAN (Rendezvous messages stay within subnets). The tutorial even shows how to make slashdot appear in your Rendezvous bookmarks.
Finally, an SDK to help you getting your "app" to the other 10% of the market!
but for the none-techies, 127.0.0.1 never goes to the ethernet (unless you have a screwy system). It is a Loopback.
Tinfoil hat: Off
Okay, when you read the news, you should have asked the typical questions: Why does Apple release Bonjour for Windows? What's in it for Apple? Why help your main competitor's users? There has got to be some profit in it for Apple.
Now, you asked why Apple talked about MSIE plugin. Simple.
1. Apple helps people network their computer and make people use MSIE.
2. Those people's computer will become heavily infested with worms and infected with viruses, bogging down every system performance and preventing people to do real work or have fun.
3. Look, here is a computer that is much more secure and just works. They switch.
4. Apple: marketshare is up, profit is up, mindshare is up.
Microsoft: marketshare is down, reputation is down.
All is good.
OK, so it's not your standard 3 steps to profit, but at least there is no ??? step. That answers your question and explains "what's in it for Apple?"
Tinfoil hat: On
I use this Bonjour stuff a lot at work where I test gateways and routers. Because it's instantaneous it's very convenient when switching frequently between three or four networks, and I even installed it on my windows boxen because it's more reliable than netbios for accessing shares by hostname. Usually I just use it for things like smb://computername.local/sharename. The share mounts, I use it. I never really paid attention to what was going on underneath. Yesterday though, I had just reloaded a system and I wanted to put my home folder back before logging in with my own user. I created the account, enabled sshd, then ssh'd in by using "ssh username@computername.local". When ssh asked me if I wanted to accept the fingerprint I noticed that I had connected to the remote machine via it's IPv6 address. I thought this was interesting since I may have been using IPv6 all this time and not really known it since I wasn't paying attention to the protocol. Pretty cool that it really does just work, even when you don't know that it's secretly using IPv6.
I've never used Bonjour (or a Mac since about 1993) but I don't see what problem there is in connecting to network printers on Windows. Every OS is "different" but none of them seem very "hard to do". Once the HP printer is on the LAN, at your PC just create a local printer and specify "\printserver\printername" as the port. mmmmm OK I do have a Samba print server.
Okay, go reread his post and mine. We're talking about acronyms which are pronounced spelled out ('HP' being the specific acronym with which he took issue, as well as 'HTML' and 'PHP' as examples of his crazy made up rule). I understand the difference between 'a' and 'an', I'm just saying that 'an' is always the correct one before 'H' pronounced as a letter. So, it's always 'An HP' because nobody pronounces HP as 'haitch pee'.
This is not a grammatical disagreement, this is a pronuciation disagreement.
Man, even I found this hilarious. Good job. :-D
Anyone suddenly have Princess Bride flashbacks?
"But you know that. And I know that you know that I know that.... so therefor the poison must be in this cup!"
That's exactly what I thought. A path for viruses to infect all Mac's they can find...
Tell that to the I.S. team at the place I'm working...
A 100 HP printers of the same model on my subnet, ALL WITH THE SAME "BONJOUR" NAME!
It kind of defeats the purpose...
-- p a n a p i c - panoramas des alpes: Mont-Blanc, Mont-Rose, Cervin, etc...
I like to think so...
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
XCode will work with any GCC-based cross compiler with little trouble. It can cross-compile for X86, the problem is using the system libraries (and thus, Cocoa).
Look at the XGrid "client" for linux. This could be ported to windows, and as long as you ship the proper bins to the proper clients you could use XGRid on windows, though totally unblessed.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
I can't for the life of me recall the name of the thing right now, but does this mean that really rather neat collaborative text editor somebody put together for Apple, will be replicateable/portable to Windows?
fortune -o
Funny, that's exactly what I said when I discovered Linux :
Bonjour, Apple!
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
How is that ZERO CONFIGURATION? I guess the grandparent was right.
Would it be possible for this to allow a machine to act as a file server? If it makes iTunes libraries availiable, could it also make a networked drive or folder availiable?
Just stick "file://localhost/" in Opera's address bar & one ends up with a rudimentary equilivent of Window Explorer's 'My Computer'
I assume one could do similar with Firefox too.
"what with QT7 being a Cocoa app [...]"
I hate to be snitty about this, but I you're way off.
I have an app that uses QuickTime. It is a Cocoa app. Cocoa and QuickTime are not mutually exclusive.
QuickTime is a set of APIs that sits on top of QuickDraw (Get it? QuickTime / QuickDraw) to support time-related images (ie, movies). Apple essentially ported hunks of QuickDraw (and some other stuff) to Windows in order to do QuickTime for Windows--supposedly this is all that remains of the fabled "Star Trek" project to port Mac OS to Intel.
Now that QuickDraw has been deprecated, QuickTime has been switched to use Core Video APIs. I would assume that it is Core Video which will be ported to Windows.
Whether an app to display movies is written in Carbon or Cocoa is immaterial.
"Apple pushing back into the cross-platform application development arena very soon, as a hook to customers to move off Carbon on the OS X platform"
Believe it or not, Apple doesn't have a problem with Carbon. At one of the old WWDCs--1997 I think--Apple made it's pitch to get everybody to convert their apps to NextSTEP. The developer community pretty much told Apple where they could stuff it. The general consensus was that if Apple insists we rewrite our applications in some weird language, we'll drop Apple. That's how Carbon came about.
What Apple would like developers to stop doing is to stop using QuickDraw (among other older APIs) and switch to Core Graphics. But Apple has no problem with Carbon APIs.
As for the "cross-platform" capabilities, I'm convinced that Apple isn't all that interested in that, either. How about Apple-specific technologies, such as AppleEvents, Spotlight, Accessibility, Sync Services, etc.? How would a "cross-platform" Cocoa support operating-system-specific technology?
Apple would far rather that Mac OS X developers support their latest technologies, thus adding more value to Mac OS X, than be able to conveniently port their applications to Windows.
Gingrich!!!!!!
Wait....wtf are you talking about?
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
ditto
Had I any mod points I'd give you an 'interesting'
:-)
Su Senor saving karma for more of those -1 dings
i put a network printer on my network, give it a name (for example one is called LEVIATHON) and then you just have to say on your machine... Add TCP Printer and then tell it LEVIATHON and then print a page to it.... simple.... why the need for all this discovery service crap? are people that stupid?
OK, someone really needs to lose their crush on ASOTV.
"Informative"?? Jesus. "Human finds joke funny".
No offense ASOTV, a large number of your posts are worthy of the moderations they get, but this is just modpoint-fellatio.
You must be one of those people who goes fishing with sticks of dynamite. Let me clue you in to the concept of 'using the right tool for the job':
The point of Bonjour is to make it easy to create small, ad-hoc networks (like what people would set up in their homes) without needing to dick around with network settings. It's more or less an improved and updated version of AppleTalk networking. Give two machines unique Bonjour names (which they'll already automatically have, if they're Macs), connect them with an ethernet cable, and start sharing files.
And for the record, OS X can authenticate directly to Active Directory and take advantage of a lot of what it offers, in addition to having the benefits Bonjour offers w/r/t to the devices on the local subnet. I've got a G4 running Tiger at my office, and it plays rather nicely with the Windows 2003 Server that's running the show-- it bound to AD and joined the domain without even needing a reboot. I just logged out of the local admin account and logged back in with my AD credentials. At the same time, the Bonjour component of iChat sees and talks to the machines of my Windows-using cohorts who use the ZeroConf messaging in Trillian.
Try to know WTF you're talking about next time.
I don't recall what the uPNP charter is, but it doesn't seem to support as much "zero configuration" as Bonjour does.
:)
For example does uPNP function as peer-to-peer DNS?
Before you question the value of this, know that 99% of home network users have to run around th check local IP addresses, even for their router (which is ideally positioned to say, create a local DNS record of 'router' with 192.168.1.1!)
Some of us will run internal DNS because we know how. Some of us know how to configure internal DNS, but cant be bothered for a small network.
There are probably other differences -- I hope there would be -- but maybe not. I'll know at the end of this thread.
Ahh. I'd wondered what the opposite of 'mod point sodomy' was. Now I know.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
You're a sick'un, aren't you?
Mind like that, you could probably get a job in Hollywood. Or, with the current administration, in Washington DC.
No, that was not a compliment.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
...this.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
fellatio isn't the opposite of sodomy... fellatio falls under the original definition of sodomy.
UPnP not only tracks where devices are but has sub-protocols for using various devices. One popular device is a router, and UPnP has a protocol for telling the router to map an outside port to a port on an inside machine, which can be bad. But if you want to do it (like for BitTorrent), it is so difficult that only obsessed evil hackers have been able to figure out how. Bonjour doesn't get involved with this.
UPnP uses SOAP, which is procedure calls and returns formatted in XML over HTTP over TCP, which is VERY COMPLICATED. Just to find out where your router is (e.g., 192.168.1.1), both you and the router have to talk to a central server. UPnP is a whole family of new, centralized protocols, and the only thing people use it for so far is something security experts say is risky.
For a sense of the mindsets, look at the explanation of bonjour on Apple's page
http://developer.apple.com/networking/bonjour
Then compare the description on the UPnP organization's site:
http://upnp.org/
It's not just the methods but the goals that are different. Like, er, apples and oranges.
--Steve
is this the mentospimp that went to U of I?
I'm one of those Windows users who will yank that broken bottle out of your hands and shove it up your ass if you wave it in my face. Watch it, buster!