Slashdot Mirror

You might want to save that facepalm for yourself: there's a difference between vegetarian and vegan. Vegan's don't consume any animal products, where eggs and dairy are consumed by vegetarians and contain B12 (and some even consider sea life 'vegetarian'.) There is zero 'controversy' on the recommendations for vegans to supplement B12. There's a handful of individuals who dispute it, and zero have a degree in nutrition, where 100% of vegan dieticians (people who went to school and studied nutrition) agree on supplementation. You might be interested in sites like https://veganhealth.org/vitamin-b12/.

I've only been vegan for 28yrs, and I've only read half a dozen or so books on the subject, so I know there's still a lot I can learn about vegan nutrition, especially from non-vegans like yourself, so thanks for the tip!

"There's no single plant that will provide you will all of them". There are many plant based foods which provide all of them. Off the top of my head soya beans, lentils, kidney beans, tempeh and tofu. http://jacknorrisrd.com/comple... http://www.veganhealth.org/art...

"I'd like to find a person that adheres to a strict vegan diet devoid of GMOs (corn being the primary offender) that suffers from diabetes. I doubt such a person exists, but I'm willing to entertain the idea of a 300+ lb. diabetic vegan if anyone can provide evidence to the contrary."

BTW, a lot of vegans eat terrible. Too much processed vegan junk foods, too many carbs, not enough vegetables, nutritional deficiencies relating to B, D, Iodine, Omega 3s/DHA, etc.. Dr. Fuhrman talks about this.
https://www.drfuhrman.com/libr...
http://www.drfuhrman.com/libra...
"What You Need to Know About Vegetarian or Vegan Diets; Following a strict vegetarian diet is not as important as eating a diet rich in fruits and vegetables. ... A vegetarian whose diet is mainly refined grains, cold breakfast cereals, processed health food store products, vegetarian fast foods, white rice, and pasta will be worse off than a person who eats a little turkey, chicken, fish, or eggs but consumes large volumes of fruits, vegetables, and beans. That combination of little or no animal products with a higher consumption of fresh produce is the crucial factor that makes a vegetarian diet healthful."

Personally, considering even Gorillas get about 5% of their calories from termites and such, I don't think any primate is adapted to be totally vegan. Maybe it is possible, but it is really pushing it. In the West, we just don't eat many insects or enough dirt (yes, I mean that, about gut bacteria and vitamin B12, although dirt today is probably not what it used to be like with lead and mercury contamination and e coli contamination and such).

However, there are lots of people for whom turning vegan improved their health for a couple years until various deficiencies set in. And I think those deficiencies could be managed for people who are aware of them or do various tests. A big thing is to eat a larger variety of foods than most people in Western society on a SAD diet are used to eating. I'd guess iodine deficiency is a big issue for many Western vegans, since some soils are depleted and sea vegetables are not common in a Western diet, and now that much bread has bromine in it instead of iodine as a dough conditioner, the situation is even worse. I also think there may be vitamins in various animal fats that we may not get enough of easily on a vegan diet for some people, especially those whose genetics are more adapted to some situations (same as lactose intolerance, but in reverse, like they are not as good at making vitamin A from plants compared to absorbing it from animal products...)

Still, in general, vegans tend to be more health conscious, so:
http://www.veganhealth.org/art...
"The only prospective study measuring rates of diabetes in vegans, the Adventist Health Study 2, found them to have a 60% less chance of developing the disease than non-vegetarians after two years of follow-up. Previously, a cross-sectional report from the Adventist Health Study-2 showed vegans to have a 68% lower rate of diabetes than non-vegetarians. A number of clinical trials have now shown that a vegan, or mostly vegan, diet can lower body weight, reduce blood sugar, and improve other parameters for type 2 diabetes."

Corn syrup manufacturers used to (maybe some still do?) clean their equipment with a mercury-based cleaning agent, and so some batches of high fructose corn syrup were contaminated with higher levels of mercury that would have contributed to ill health. Also, in any society with a dominant food (like corn in the USA) more people tend to get allergic to it. An undiagnosed food allergy is going to cause all sorts of problems including stress, which might contribute to obesity. Few people in the USA are probably allergic to rice since the US does not eat so much of it, but a rice or soy allerg

There is so much in your post that's incorrect that it's hard to know where to start making corrections. I'll just choose a few items.

As to the idea that a vegan eschewing supplements would "[die] from the most basic of food diseases, scurvy, after 2-3 months" -- scurvy a deficiency of vitamin C which is abundant in certain fruits and vegetables. Someone eating a plant-based diet would be pretty much the last person to get scurvy.

...plants do not contain all 9 of the essential amino acids

That's false. Quoth Wikipedia, "Nearly all foods contain all twenty amino acids in some quantity." Plant foods often don't supply a lot of the essential amino acids (esp. lysine) but they provide some. Citing Wikipedia again, "...amaranth,...buckwheat, hempseed, meat, poultry, Salvia hispanica, soybeans, quinoa, seafood, and spirulina also are complete protein foods".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_protein

In fact, tempeh (soybeans + mushroom) does pretty well at supplying essential amino acids.

There is one substance that contains all required nutrients for a human being : meat (raw meat).

This dramatically oversimplifies human nutritional requirements. You get to work on that 100% raw meat diet and let us know how that works for you.

But B12 can be obtained from pills - which are still vegan since they are produced by microbes. http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan/

  Avian flu is dangerous because people get if from eating livestock and then spread it to other people.

It is also starting to be believed that mad cow can be spread to people without the victim having to eat diseased meat. "Prions" which can give you the disease are near indestructible. Mad Cow has been found in the US though the media has played it down.

Neither of these diseases would be a problem if so much livestock was not raised, and if people did not eat meat.

People may like meat, but most people do need it to live or even to make interesting tasty meals.

So, human beings are going to risk creating a world wide, deadly, flu epidemic ala Stephen King all for the sake of one choice for dinner over another.

That does not sound very rational.

If you want to reduce your risk of these diseases, these links can help you reduce the amount of meat you eat:

http://tryveg.com/cfi/toc/ [tryveg.com]

http://www.veganhealth.org/sh/ [veganhealth.org]

Avian flu is dangerous because people get if from eating livestock and then spread it to other people.

It is also starting to be believed that mad cow can be spread to people without the victim having to eat diseased meat. "Prions" which can give you the disease are near indestructible. Mad Cow has been found in the US though the media has played it down.

Neither of these diseases would be a problem if so much livestock was not raised, and if people did not eat meat.

People may like meat, but most people do need it to live or even to make interesting tasty meals.

So, human beings are going to risk creating a world wide, deadly, flu epidemic ala Stephen King all for the sake of one choice for dinner over another.

That does not sound very rational.

If you want to reduce your risk of these diseases, these links can help you reduce the amount of meat you eat:

http://tryveg.com/cfi/toc/

http://www.veganhealth.org/sh/