Domain: volokh.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to volokh.com.
Comments · 268
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Re:First amendment
For commentary by an expert on First Amendment law, see Eugene Volokh's post.
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Re:Don't destroy the magazines
You appear to be ignorant of the principle of implied consent
It is not "Stealing" nor "Theft of services" nor "Unauthorized use of a computer" nor "Computer trespass" according to New York Law, for one example.
Perhaps you'd like a scholarly article on why we should not make your assumptions (and get indignant about it, I might add) from George Washington University - Law School
In fact, I had already given you examples of use which are not stealing, and you are choosing to ignore them so you can't redundantly say stealing is stealing. On the off chance that you blacked out, the examples were anonymous FTP and a web server sharing files. P2P is another situation where you could be sharing files by mistake, but it's reasonable to assume that it is not by mistake - and downloaders use more of your computer resources than someone sending data through your router.
It takes all of one minute to turn on security. You do *not* have to be a hacker - what a canard that is. I won't claim that there isn't anyone who wouldn't be able to do it, but society cannot always limit itself to what the least of us can do. There is no victim in this scenario, just someone who has shared their network, so deserve has nothing to do with it. I was merely suggesting that being lazy and ignorant usually means you are to blame when you do something you did not intend.
Enough of your feeble attempts to claim I will take other people's physical property if it's not bolted down. You are obviously having trouble recognizing the difference between a car parked in your garage and a service that you are broadcasting onto my property which advertises itself as non-private and explicitly authorizes me to join the network.
Is it possible that reasonable people can reach this conclusion? Or am I the only asocial moron with a toddler's mentality?
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060227-6272.html
http://www.dispatch.com/live/contentbe/dispatch/2006/02/26/20060226-H2-03.html
http://blogs.computerworld.com/why_its_ok_to_steal_wi_fi
http://zovirl.com/2006/07/27/you-cant-steal-wifi/
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1179938755.shtmlYou may not agree, but you should not continue to pretend that all people who hold this view think it's OK to steal. Try to learn that much.
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Re:It's about damn timeBefore you go about making various grammatical claimsâ¦at least first make sure to get the text of the amendment correct:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Note the first (originally missing) comma; it is important. It makes the phrase 'being necessary to the security of a free state' a dependent clause: a present participial phrase at that. This means it serves as an adjective modifying the noun, 'militia'. The next phrase is the same: âoethe right of the people to keep and bear armsâ is also a dependent clause acting as an adjective and modifying 'militia'.
As we all learned, a sentence is still complete even when all dependent clauses are removed. Thus, the thought described by the 2nd amendment can be considered to be simplyA well regulated militia shall not be infringed.
And the meaning of militia, according to the author at least, encompasses the idea of 1) being necessary for a free people, and 2) synonymous with the right to bear arms.
Now we can argue what a militia means. And what it means to be well-regulated. I would suggest, based on the amount of power Congress has squeezed out of its other Art 1, section 8 enumerated powers, quite a lot.
It's too bad the conservative 4 and the opinion by Scalia is shamefully similar to the twisted, biased logic expressed in various forms by one Eugene Volokh (well-known libertarian/conservative individual gun-rights proponent). Especially the semantic and grammatical deconstruction of the text itself, which was afforded more weight than several experts in English, Literature, and History.
PS. When did /. get overrun with gun nuts? -
Re:Am I missing something orWhy are you in the kitchen? What kitchen? What part of, "Wow....people like you are why I vote Republican. And there's much that I don't like about that party." Is supporting substantiation? Eh? That's ALL he wrote. Ok, to attempt to avoid selective quoting, YOU said "My response is all about him claiming to vote against his own principles." You already quoted above what he said...where does he say he votes against his principles? Do you 100% agree with every single policy of Obama, the Democrat Party, or whatever party or candidate you choose to vote for? I highly doubt it! If there is a candidate or party out there that I agree with 100%, I have yet to find it! That's the point. The assumption that voting for somebody or something that you don't 100% agree with means going against your principals is a rather simplistic and unrealistic view. Apparently not since a website is not a link to a specific discussion on that website. Again, if you wanted to do more than crap in public you would actually post a link to the specific discussion on the website. Why do you bother posting, TWICE now, if you can't be bothered to actually say something useful? Do you get off on playing the, "I know something you have to dig through google to find out" card? I didn't even know that was a card!! Whee, I can have fun with that
;-)
If I offended you by just giving you the main link, I apologize. The way this--and many other academic blogs [and more general blogs to for that matter]--work is that a series of bloggers will often write on similar issues. Thus there are often a number of topical frontpage stories.
It really is a very interesting blog too, if you're at all interested, but anyhow, I will gladly provide you the direct links you ask for:
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212959006.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212699333.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046433.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046814.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213047646.shtml
There's a good bit of good information in there, and a lot of the comments are also by cj experts / workers. I enjoyed it, I hope you find it at all interesting. Jeesuz chreeist! You posted a couple of words with no meaningful content, no explanation of why anyone should make the effort to check it out. Extremely solipsistic of you. hold on a second ... You mean you're more than just words on a screen? If you actually cared about posting coherently there is a lot you could learn. There's a guest blogger over on the Asimbonanga right now who has published extensively in the field (and not just as as slashdot armchair quarterback). I'd recommend you take a look. I get your attempted -- humor, whatever --but it didn't really work. If you google for "Volokh Conspiracy" (or use the link I provided at your requests) it's right there.
FWIW, I googled and was unable to find an Asimbonanga blog :-P No need to be so smug and passive aggressive. I'm really sorry my posts upset/irritate/whatevered you so much. If you don't want to go to the blog, don't! End of story, I'm happy with the thread ending at that! It hardly seems worthwhile to go profane and excoriate me over that! -
Re:Am I missing something orWhy are you in the kitchen? What kitchen? What part of, "Wow....people like you are why I vote Republican. And there's much that I don't like about that party." Is supporting substantiation? Eh? That's ALL he wrote. Ok, to attempt to avoid selective quoting, YOU said "My response is all about him claiming to vote against his own principles." You already quoted above what he said...where does he say he votes against his principles? Do you 100% agree with every single policy of Obama, the Democrat Party, or whatever party or candidate you choose to vote for? I highly doubt it! If there is a candidate or party out there that I agree with 100%, I have yet to find it! That's the point. The assumption that voting for somebody or something that you don't 100% agree with means going against your principals is a rather simplistic and unrealistic view. Apparently not since a website is not a link to a specific discussion on that website. Again, if you wanted to do more than crap in public you would actually post a link to the specific discussion on the website. Why do you bother posting, TWICE now, if you can't be bothered to actually say something useful? Do you get off on playing the, "I know something you have to dig through google to find out" card? I didn't even know that was a card!! Whee, I can have fun with that
;-)
If I offended you by just giving you the main link, I apologize. The way this--and many other academic blogs [and more general blogs to for that matter]--work is that a series of bloggers will often write on similar issues. Thus there are often a number of topical frontpage stories.
It really is a very interesting blog too, if you're at all interested, but anyhow, I will gladly provide you the direct links you ask for:
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212959006.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212699333.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046433.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046814.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213047646.shtml
There's a good bit of good information in there, and a lot of the comments are also by cj experts / workers. I enjoyed it, I hope you find it at all interesting. Jeesuz chreeist! You posted a couple of words with no meaningful content, no explanation of why anyone should make the effort to check it out. Extremely solipsistic of you. hold on a second ... You mean you're more than just words on a screen? If you actually cared about posting coherently there is a lot you could learn. There's a guest blogger over on the Asimbonanga right now who has published extensively in the field (and not just as as slashdot armchair quarterback). I'd recommend you take a look. I get your attempted -- humor, whatever --but it didn't really work. If you google for "Volokh Conspiracy" (or use the link I provided at your requests) it's right there.
FWIW, I googled and was unable to find an Asimbonanga blog :-P No need to be so smug and passive aggressive. I'm really sorry my posts upset/irritate/whatevered you so much. If you don't want to go to the blog, don't! End of story, I'm happy with the thread ending at that! It hardly seems worthwhile to go profane and excoriate me over that! -
Re:Am I missing something orWhy are you in the kitchen? What kitchen? What part of, "Wow....people like you are why I vote Republican. And there's much that I don't like about that party." Is supporting substantiation? Eh? That's ALL he wrote. Ok, to attempt to avoid selective quoting, YOU said "My response is all about him claiming to vote against his own principles." You already quoted above what he said...where does he say he votes against his principles? Do you 100% agree with every single policy of Obama, the Democrat Party, or whatever party or candidate you choose to vote for? I highly doubt it! If there is a candidate or party out there that I agree with 100%, I have yet to find it! That's the point. The assumption that voting for somebody or something that you don't 100% agree with means going against your principals is a rather simplistic and unrealistic view. Apparently not since a website is not a link to a specific discussion on that website. Again, if you wanted to do more than crap in public you would actually post a link to the specific discussion on the website. Why do you bother posting, TWICE now, if you can't be bothered to actually say something useful? Do you get off on playing the, "I know something you have to dig through google to find out" card? I didn't even know that was a card!! Whee, I can have fun with that
;-)
If I offended you by just giving you the main link, I apologize. The way this--and many other academic blogs [and more general blogs to for that matter]--work is that a series of bloggers will often write on similar issues. Thus there are often a number of topical frontpage stories.
It really is a very interesting blog too, if you're at all interested, but anyhow, I will gladly provide you the direct links you ask for:
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212959006.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212699333.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046433.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046814.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213047646.shtml
There's a good bit of good information in there, and a lot of the comments are also by cj experts / workers. I enjoyed it, I hope you find it at all interesting. Jeesuz chreeist! You posted a couple of words with no meaningful content, no explanation of why anyone should make the effort to check it out. Extremely solipsistic of you. hold on a second ... You mean you're more than just words on a screen? If you actually cared about posting coherently there is a lot you could learn. There's a guest blogger over on the Asimbonanga right now who has published extensively in the field (and not just as as slashdot armchair quarterback). I'd recommend you take a look. I get your attempted -- humor, whatever --but it didn't really work. If you google for "Volokh Conspiracy" (or use the link I provided at your requests) it's right there.
FWIW, I googled and was unable to find an Asimbonanga blog :-P No need to be so smug and passive aggressive. I'm really sorry my posts upset/irritate/whatevered you so much. If you don't want to go to the blog, don't! End of story, I'm happy with the thread ending at that! It hardly seems worthwhile to go profane and excoriate me over that! -
Re:Am I missing something orWhy are you in the kitchen? What kitchen? What part of, "Wow....people like you are why I vote Republican. And there's much that I don't like about that party." Is supporting substantiation? Eh? That's ALL he wrote. Ok, to attempt to avoid selective quoting, YOU said "My response is all about him claiming to vote against his own principles." You already quoted above what he said...where does he say he votes against his principles? Do you 100% agree with every single policy of Obama, the Democrat Party, or whatever party or candidate you choose to vote for? I highly doubt it! If there is a candidate or party out there that I agree with 100%, I have yet to find it! That's the point. The assumption that voting for somebody or something that you don't 100% agree with means going against your principals is a rather simplistic and unrealistic view. Apparently not since a website is not a link to a specific discussion on that website. Again, if you wanted to do more than crap in public you would actually post a link to the specific discussion on the website. Why do you bother posting, TWICE now, if you can't be bothered to actually say something useful? Do you get off on playing the, "I know something you have to dig through google to find out" card? I didn't even know that was a card!! Whee, I can have fun with that
;-)
If I offended you by just giving you the main link, I apologize. The way this--and many other academic blogs [and more general blogs to for that matter]--work is that a series of bloggers will often write on similar issues. Thus there are often a number of topical frontpage stories.
It really is a very interesting blog too, if you're at all interested, but anyhow, I will gladly provide you the direct links you ask for:
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212959006.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212699333.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046433.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046814.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213047646.shtml
There's a good bit of good information in there, and a lot of the comments are also by cj experts / workers. I enjoyed it, I hope you find it at all interesting. Jeesuz chreeist! You posted a couple of words with no meaningful content, no explanation of why anyone should make the effort to check it out. Extremely solipsistic of you. hold on a second ... You mean you're more than just words on a screen? If you actually cared about posting coherently there is a lot you could learn. There's a guest blogger over on the Asimbonanga right now who has published extensively in the field (and not just as as slashdot armchair quarterback). I'd recommend you take a look. I get your attempted -- humor, whatever --but it didn't really work. If you google for "Volokh Conspiracy" (or use the link I provided at your requests) it's right there.
FWIW, I googled and was unable to find an Asimbonanga blog :-P No need to be so smug and passive aggressive. I'm really sorry my posts upset/irritate/whatevered you so much. If you don't want to go to the blog, don't! End of story, I'm happy with the thread ending at that! It hardly seems worthwhile to go profane and excoriate me over that! -
Re:Am I missing something orWhy are you in the kitchen? What kitchen? What part of, "Wow....people like you are why I vote Republican. And there's much that I don't like about that party." Is supporting substantiation? Eh? That's ALL he wrote. Ok, to attempt to avoid selective quoting, YOU said "My response is all about him claiming to vote against his own principles." You already quoted above what he said...where does he say he votes against his principles? Do you 100% agree with every single policy of Obama, the Democrat Party, or whatever party or candidate you choose to vote for? I highly doubt it! If there is a candidate or party out there that I agree with 100%, I have yet to find it! That's the point. The assumption that voting for somebody or something that you don't 100% agree with means going against your principals is a rather simplistic and unrealistic view. Apparently not since a website is not a link to a specific discussion on that website. Again, if you wanted to do more than crap in public you would actually post a link to the specific discussion on the website. Why do you bother posting, TWICE now, if you can't be bothered to actually say something useful? Do you get off on playing the, "I know something you have to dig through google to find out" card? I didn't even know that was a card!! Whee, I can have fun with that
;-)
If I offended you by just giving you the main link, I apologize. The way this--and many other academic blogs [and more general blogs to for that matter]--work is that a series of bloggers will often write on similar issues. Thus there are often a number of topical frontpage stories.
It really is a very interesting blog too, if you're at all interested, but anyhow, I will gladly provide you the direct links you ask for:
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212959006.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1212699333.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046433.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213046814.shtml
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1213047646.shtml
There's a good bit of good information in there, and a lot of the comments are also by cj experts / workers. I enjoyed it, I hope you find it at all interesting. Jeesuz chreeist! You posted a couple of words with no meaningful content, no explanation of why anyone should make the effort to check it out. Extremely solipsistic of you. hold on a second ... You mean you're more than just words on a screen? If you actually cared about posting coherently there is a lot you could learn. There's a guest blogger over on the Asimbonanga right now who has published extensively in the field (and not just as as slashdot armchair quarterback). I'd recommend you take a look. I get your attempted -- humor, whatever --but it didn't really work. If you google for "Volokh Conspiracy" (or use the link I provided at your requests) it's right there.
FWIW, I googled and was unable to find an Asimbonanga blog :-P No need to be so smug and passive aggressive. I'm really sorry my posts upset/irritate/whatevered you so much. If you don't want to go to the blog, don't! End of story, I'm happy with the thread ending at that! It hardly seems worthwhile to go profane and excoriate me over that! -
Excluding Ron Paul makes perfect sense
He was probably excluded because he was a fringe candidate* whose supporters engaged in questionable internet tactics designed to undermine serious results from any search engine one cares to study. Of course including him screws up the results. That was his supporters' goal.
*Yes, he was. Get over it. He was a candidate so far to the racist, paleocon fringe that even many libertarians were troubled by him (See, e.g., The Volokh Conspiracy, and I can provide others). He's not a serious candidate now, nor was he ever. -
Excellent Legal Post
Apologies to Slashdot readers if someone else already posted the following link(s) or material, but I looked for it and related keywords over the entire thread, finding nothing. Orin S. Kerr over at The Volokh Conspiracy (a legal blog with a cool name) has posted a useful quick analysis of the matter, which I believe is more important than might appear at first glimpse. It's well worth reading in its entirety, but I'll quote a short stretch of it:
[...]
This case involves a terrible tragedy; I think what Lori Drew did is truly despicable. But the government's legal theory, based entirely on the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, 18 U.S.C. 1030, is very weak. Legally speaking, the prosecution is a real stretch. In my view, the courts should dismiss the indictment. In this post, I'll explain why.
To understand this case, you need to understand the government's theory. The indictment is not charging Drew with harassment. Nor are they charging her with homicide. Rather, the government's theory in this case is that Drew criminally trespassed onto MySpace's server by using MySpace in a way that violated MySpace's Terms of Service (TOS).
Here's the idea. The TOS required Drew to provide accurate registration information, not to harass or harm other people, and not to promote conduct that was abusive. She didn't comply with these terms, the theory goes, so she was criminally trespassing onto MySpace's computer when she was logging into her account. The indictment turns this into a federal felony conspiracy charge by arguing that she did this in concert with others to obtain information and to further tortious conduct -- intentional infliction of emotional distress -- violating the felony provisions of 18 U.S.C. 1030(a)(2).
But these arguments are a real stretch for three reasons.
Problem One: The first major hurdle is a legal question that I wrote an article on in 2003: Is it a federal crime to violate contractual limitations on use of a computer? The federal statute, 18 U.S.C. 1030, generally prohibits accessing a computer "without authorization" or "exceeding authorized access." But what makes an access "without authorization"? If the computer owner says that you can only access the computer if you are left-handed, or if you agree to be nice, are you committing a crime if you use the computer and are nasty or you are right-handed? If you violate the Terms of Service, are you committing a crime?
In my article, Cybercrime's Scope: Interpreting "Access" and "Authorization" in Computer Misuse Statutes, 78 NYU L. Rev. 1596 (2003), I argue that the answer should be "no." I won't recite the legal arguments here, as you can just read the article itself. (You can imagine the basic idea, though: Since everyone who uses computers violates dozens of different TOS every day, the theory would make everyone who uses computers a felon.) However, I will point out that the MySpace case is to my knowledge the very first federal indictment that has tried to claim that violations of Terms of Service for an Internet account amounts to a crime under Section 1030. In fact, I wrote my NYU article in part because I figured it was only a matter of time before a sympathetic case came along and some aggressive prosecutor would try the argument and see if it flew. It looks like this is the test case.
[...]
(The original post has embedded links to relevant citations).
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Excellent Legal Post
Apologies to Slashdot readers if someone else already posted the following link(s) or material, but I looked for it and related keywords over the entire thread, finding nothing. Orin S. Kerr over at The Volokh Conspiracy (a legal blog with a cool name) has posted a useful quick analysis of the matter, which I believe is more important than might appear at first glimpse. It's well worth reading in its entirety, but I'll quote a short stretch of it:
[...]
This case involves a terrible tragedy; I think what Lori Drew did is truly despicable. But the government's legal theory, based entirely on the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, 18 U.S.C. 1030, is very weak. Legally speaking, the prosecution is a real stretch. In my view, the courts should dismiss the indictment. In this post, I'll explain why.
To understand this case, you need to understand the government's theory. The indictment is not charging Drew with harassment. Nor are they charging her with homicide. Rather, the government's theory in this case is that Drew criminally trespassed onto MySpace's server by using MySpace in a way that violated MySpace's Terms of Service (TOS).
Here's the idea. The TOS required Drew to provide accurate registration information, not to harass or harm other people, and not to promote conduct that was abusive. She didn't comply with these terms, the theory goes, so she was criminally trespassing onto MySpace's computer when she was logging into her account. The indictment turns this into a federal felony conspiracy charge by arguing that she did this in concert with others to obtain information and to further tortious conduct -- intentional infliction of emotional distress -- violating the felony provisions of 18 U.S.C. 1030(a)(2).
But these arguments are a real stretch for three reasons.
Problem One: The first major hurdle is a legal question that I wrote an article on in 2003: Is it a federal crime to violate contractual limitations on use of a computer? The federal statute, 18 U.S.C. 1030, generally prohibits accessing a computer "without authorization" or "exceeding authorized access." But what makes an access "without authorization"? If the computer owner says that you can only access the computer if you are left-handed, or if you agree to be nice, are you committing a crime if you use the computer and are nasty or you are right-handed? If you violate the Terms of Service, are you committing a crime?
In my article, Cybercrime's Scope: Interpreting "Access" and "Authorization" in Computer Misuse Statutes, 78 NYU L. Rev. 1596 (2003), I argue that the answer should be "no." I won't recite the legal arguments here, as you can just read the article itself. (You can imagine the basic idea, though: Since everyone who uses computers violates dozens of different TOS every day, the theory would make everyone who uses computers a felon.) However, I will point out that the MySpace case is to my knowledge the very first federal indictment that has tried to claim that violations of Terms of Service for an Internet account amounts to a crime under Section 1030. In fact, I wrote my NYU article in part because I figured it was only a matter of time before a sympathetic case came along and some aggressive prosecutor would try the argument and see if it flew. It looks like this is the test case.
[...]
(The original post has embedded links to relevant citations).
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Re:More options are always better!
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Re:Medical 'insurance' is an extended warranty
Your framing doesn't work, in part because medical care isn't nearly the basic need that food is. I hardly ever have to go to the doctor, but I eat all the time. My mere existence doesn't reduce people's responsibility for their own well being. If I come across a crime in progress, and do nothing about it, that doesn't make me responsible for the crime occuring. If someone is starving on the street, and I'm wealthy, that doesn't mean I'm at fault for them starving.
You used a false dichotomy. The choice isn't a) property being iviolate and b) taking care of those whose basic needs are not being reasonably met. It's possible to have property be inviolate AND take care of those basic needs. It's just that you have to spend your money, not someone else's. But historically, statists are unwilling to make personal sacrifices unless they can compel everyone else to sacrifice at least as much. There's a reason conservatives in the US generally give more to private charity than liberals. For the sake of argument, take as a given the known issues with dividing people along a single axis.
At a basic level, your system isn't compatible with freedom of choice. Mine is. I suspect you place some value on freedom of choice and equal rights, but that you place them below a right to life. Unfortunately, a right to live can become self refuting if it allows you to violently rob people or compel medical care, at the risk of their life, to provide someone else with life. That's why I only concede a right not to be killed, even though I will act personally to help other people live. And at that point we have very few principles in common, probably consisting only of "Helping others is a good thing". I'm not accusing you of being fascist, I just don't see how the system of government control you seem to prefer differs from fasicsm in kind. I'm quite happy to concede that it differs in quantity. Minor government oppression is much, much preferable to total government control. Just as an organized government welfare system is preferable to being mugged. That doesn't make either one right.
I long since came to the conclusion that Godel's theorem applies to moral systems as well as mathematical ones. Consistent, complete, or finite: pick any two. I'll take consistent and finite by preference. -
Re:summary is wrong. i must be new here.
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Re:RIGHT?Apparently you don't have freedom of speech in Canada. Listen to your "human rights investigator" (PDF http://volokh.com/files/warmantranscript.pdfPDF p43):
MS KULASZKA: Mr. Steacy, you were talking before about context and how important it is when you do your investigation. What value do you give freedom of speech when you investigate one of these complaints?
MR. STEACY: Freedom of speech is an American concept, so I don't give it any value.
MS KULASZKA: Okay. That was a clear answer.
MR. STEACY: It's not my job to give value to an American concept.
Now, I'm sure that's not the view of most Canadians but idea that someone from your "human rights" commissions has such abject disregard for the universal value of free speech - a value that is by far not uniquely American. How did this person get to be in that position? So freedom and constitutional rights in the United States have eroded to the point where Freedom is now defined as the ability to play Led Zeppelin all day? While I'm generally not happy about the state of American Constituional Law (and I'm also not alarmist about it either, most of the institutions seem sound enough to survive a few bad terms), I would say that the right to play whatever music (obscenity notwithstanding) you want on your radio station constitutes a part of a fundamental right. It's not defined that way, it's just that the way it's defined necessarily includes that right (mathematically, that right is necessarily a subset of the broader right).
As far as the French policy goes, I cannot imagine any Court in the United States upholding a restraint on the ability of a citizen to freely contract with an ISP for internet access. The only way this could possibly happen is if it is proven (note: the "making available" theory no longer holds water) that the person in question distributed files in violation of someone else's rights, the DA/USA could make not touching the internet a part of a plea deal. In that case, it's voluntary and so there is no question of legality. -
Re:Pardon me saying so...
What about the best of all - Star Trek? It paints a utopian picture of Earth in the future, that picture being one where they've done away with money and capitalism, and are living in a happy world under a system of governance closer to communism than anything else.
I think Star Trek has had too many inconsistencies in its portrayal to say any particular economic model is used by the Federation. There is no money, but "gold-pressed latinum" is used widely; there are no poor on the starship, but plenty of poor worlds in the Federation; there is supposedly democratic representation, but some planets are more equal than others; it is supposedly a meritocracy, but family dynasties exist throughout StarFleet and the Federation Council.
I like the theory presented here about the structure of the Federation. -
Re:For a real discussion
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For a real discussion
I know it's not normal here, but you can find an opinion by someone who actually knows the law and read it. Look for [Orin Kerr, March 20, 2008 at 6:29pm].
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Well...
There's an interesting write-up by Orin Kerr over at Volokh Conspiracy. An important point that's lost in the hand-wringing above is that the FBI agent in question posted the link in a message board which was already known to be a distribution point for child pornography, and the link in question was clearly described as a link to child pornography. As an aside to the prefetch argument, from reading Mozilla's FAQ I'm not such a link would have been prefetched, but I'm not sure about that.
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Re:Decoy Data
It is a good thing the government would never shop around for an easily manipulated test case to undermine the Constitution and Bill of Rights:
http://volokh.com/posts/1179865714.shtml -
A potentially interesting take on this
Here's a potentially interesting take on this by an actual law professor who actually read the court's actual decision.
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Re:Really?
Which is why I included a link to the best discussion about the most current judgment that I am aware of.
Since the Bill of Rights is treated as just a scrap of paper these days, I would actually prefer that electronic (or any other) communication not be protected at all to remove the illusion that the government does not clandestinely routinely monitor it.
Oddly (or not) enough, encryption itself does not legally create a presumption of privacy. If the authorities have gathered encrypted information in an otherwise legal way (say by copying a hard drive at a border crossing for any or no reason at all), they are free to use whatever methods are at their disposal to decrypt it. Getting the password through testimony so far is another matter.
http://volokh.com/posts/1157133639.shtml -
Re:Really?
So the police don't make you reveal your password -- they just tell you to enter it into your computer and unlock the files so they can look at them. It's no different than coming to you with a search warrant for your safe and making you unlock it.
Can the government force the suspect to enter in his encryption passphrase so the government can view the decrypted files? Or does the Fifth Amendment privilege give the suspect a legal right not to enter in the passphrase? On November 29, Magistrate Judge Jerome Niedermeier in Vermont handed down the first opinion to squarely address the issue: In re Boucher. Judge Niedermeier ruled that the defendant did have a Fifth Amendment privilege in such circumstances.
. . .
The government tried to guess the password and failed, so the grand jury issued a subpoena to Boucher ordering him to disclose the password to drive Z. Boucher's counsel them moved to block the subpoena, arguing that he had a Fifth Amendment privilege not to comply. The government responded that it would be happy to just have Boucher enter in the password without the government ever seeing it. The Court thus addressed only whether Boucher had a Fifth Amendment privilege not to enter in the password.
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_12_09-2007_12_15.shtml#1197670606
Part of the reason for the 5th Amendment is to prevent abusive interrogations and false confessions by creating an unequivocal rule. Investigators have other means available when dealing with non-testimonial evidence (cut the safe open, tear apart the car, bug the keyboard) but even use of a password without disclosure could encourage the use of duress. -
Going out on a limb
Real profiling. Until grandma and grandpa with that brace on his bad knee bombs us there's no need to 'randomly' pull them aside for a more in depth search. Tips from other countries that racially profile and do it well like Israel would help point us in the right direction. It's not all about racial profiling either. Just a mix of some good questions asked to people with other real security measures would be just as good if not better than what we have now.
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Re:IRC and Windows
I think we already have that. It is the county elections registration offices.
Many dead people have a history of voting. And that history isn't all that long ago. -
Re:"behavior-detection officers"
You wish. And so do a lot of lefties here, who fantasize about rising up to smash the system that oppresses them...which never seems to actually get around to take an interest in oppressing anyone!
Tom Wolfe covers this succinctly: "The dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe."
And as they say, read the whole thing from "The Intelligent Coed's Guide to America"
I'll take my chances living in Boston before I'd take my chances east of Albion.
--AW -
Re:Apple care
As is often the case, law and ethics diverge on the question of a duty to report crime.
It is the general rule in the the US that there is no duty to report crime absent a special relationship between the people involved. Teachers and nurses have to report child abuse, but if you witness a murder there is no duty to say a word unless you are subpoenaed to testify in a court. Hint: when you are being questioned ask "am I free to go?" and then go find legal representation. You can walk right past a crime scene and never call the cops if you don't want to. Of course, that assumes you had nothing to do with the murder -- if you were part of the conspiracy to commit the murder then your legal duties change pretty dramatically.
In general Europe has stronger duties to help/report, so law there might differ.
As always, check with YOUR attorney -- IANAL, state laws may vary, and there might be specific laws covering your situation. -
Informed Commentary
For some commentary on this case by a real lawyer who has some idea of what he's talking about, see this Volokh Conspiracy posting. Note, for example, that he points out why this is far from decided, and some interesting complexities in the case because it took place at a border crossing.
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write up at Volokh, by guys who are lawyersThe blog post is here.
This case is a very interesting overlap between 4th Amendment "right to privacy" cases and 5th Amendment "right not to self-incriminate" cases. I personally think that if the government can't break the encryption to "prove" what is hidden from them, they have no right to force the owner to do their work for them. People have a right to keep stuff private, and if they've hidden it effectively, then tough shit for the cops.
I acknowledge that child porn is inherently harmful to the children involved, and that laws targeting possession of child porn are therefore valid so far as they aim to protect children by destroying the market for the exploitative and harmful material. And there is no first-amendment protection for child porn. But the cops still can't break into your house without a warrant just because they they think you have pictures of naked kids inside, and they can't wiretap your internet connection without a court order (heh, they can't LEGALLY, even though it's probably going on right now OMGHI2NSA). Those are 4th amendment rights. But the 5th amendment kicks in to say that even with a court order and a valid warrant, the cops in your house can't force you to tell them which floorboard is the loose one with the bloody knife hidden under it. If you refuse to tell them, they have to find it on their own-- and if they can't find it, they can't use it as evidence against you. That's exactly how the 5th amendment is supposed to work.
A police force with the power to compel self-incriminating testimony becomes the enemy of any citizen who wishes to lawfully express dissent with any policy of government. The 5th Amendment is the most powerful safeguard citizens have against confessions extracted via torture finding purchase in US courts.
From the decision itself (lifted from that post at Volokh Conspiracy), bolded emphasis is mine:Entering a password into the computer implicitly communicates facts. By entering the password Boucher would be disclosing the fact that he knows the password and has control over the files on drive Z. The procedure is equivalent to asking Boucher, "Do you know the password to the laptop?" If Boucher does know the password, he would be faced with the forbidden trilemma; incriminate himself, lie under oath, or find himself in contempt of court. Id . at 212.
The Supreme Court has held some acts of production are unprivileged such as providing fingerprints, blood samples, or voice recordings. Id. at 210. Production of such evidence gives no indication of a person's thoughts or knowledge because it is undeniable that a person possesses his own fingerprints, blood, and voice. Id. at 210-11. Unlike the unprivileged production of such samples, it is not without question that Boucher possesses the password or has access to the files.
In distinguishing testimonial from non-testimonial acts, the Supreme Court has compared revealing the combination to a wall safe to surrendering the key to a strongbox. See id. at 210, n. 9; see also United States v. Hubbell, 530 U.S. 27, 43 (2000). The combination conveys the contents of one's mind; the key does not and is therefore not testimonial. Doe II, 487 U.S. at 210, n. 9. A password, like a combination, is in the suspect's mind, and is therefore testimonial and beyond the reach of the grand jury subpoena.
The government has offered to restrict the entering of the password so that no one views or records the password. While this would prevent the government from knowing what the password is, it would not change the testimonial significance of the act of entering the password. Boucher would still be implicitly indicating that he knows the password and that he has access to the files. The contents of Boucher's mind would still be displayed, and therefore the testimonial nature does not change merely because no one else will disc -
Re:Is encryption private?Do we all have a right (by DMCA in US) or otherwise to the encryption we put on our data?
I presume that such a right would be unenumerated and reserved to the people by the Ninth Amendment. There is no current law forbidding the use of encryption as far as I know and any such would be quickly challenged on multiple constitutional grounds.
Does it take a court order or other legal instrument to lawfully break encryption?
No. If they already have legally seized the data or communication through a warrant or other process then they do not require anything else to attempt to break the encryption. Recovering a key on the other hand could be very difficult if the suspect was prudent.
Here is a good legal discussion about encryption and privacy including a link to a paper written by Professor Orin Kerr:
Abstract:Does encrypting Internet communications create a reasonable expectation of privacy in their contents, triggering Fourth Amendment protection? At first blush, it seems that the answer must be yes: A reasonable person would surely expect that encrypted communications will remain private. In this paper, Professor Kerr explains why this intuitive answer is entirely wrong: Encrypting communications cannot create a reasonable expectation of privacy. The reason is that the Fourth Amendment regulates access, not understanding: no matter how unlikely it is that the government will successfully decrypt ciphertext, the Fourth Amendment offers no protection if it succeeds. As a result, the government does not need a search warrant to decrypt encrypted communications. This surprising result is consistent with Fourth Amendment caselaw: it matches how courts have resolved cases involving the reassembly of shredded documents, recovery of deleted files, and the translation of foreign languages. The Fourth Amendment may regulate government access to ciphertext, but it does not regulate government efforts to translate ciphertext into plaintext.
http://volokh.com/posts/1157133639.shtml -
Mentall illness commitment rate vs. crime
Actually, I find this observation more compelling because it maps across years better. Essentially the US had higher incarceration rates in the 40's and 50's when you take mental illness hospitalization and prison rates together. In the early 60's, the mental hospitals started to empty out and it was made quite difficult to commit somebody (I know some people were committed that shouldn't have been).
Here is the article
http://volokh.com/posts/1177939981.shtml
Here is the larger version of the chart:
This chart shows mental illness hospitalization vs. prison rates over time. It is not on the graph, but the big crime spike in the 60's through the nineties lines with emptying the hospitals before they were all put in prison instead. As the incarceration rate increases in the 90's the crime rate drops.
http://volokh.com/files/bernardharcourt-volokh_graph.1.JPG -
Mentall illness commitment rate vs. crime
Actually, I find this observation more compelling because it maps across years better. Essentially the US had higher incarceration rates in the 40's and 50's when you take mental illness hospitalization and prison rates together. In the early 60's, the mental hospitals started to empty out and it was made quite difficult to commit somebody (I know some people were committed that shouldn't have been).
Here is the article
http://volokh.com/posts/1177939981.shtml
Here is the larger version of the chart:
This chart shows mental illness hospitalization vs. prison rates over time. It is not on the graph, but the big crime spike in the 60's through the nineties lines with emptying the hospitals before they were all put in prison instead. As the incarceration rate increases in the 90's the crime rate drops.
http://volokh.com/files/bernardharcourt-volokh_graph.1.JPG -
Better at work...
I'm glad that swearing at work is good for you, because swearing at home is illegal.
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Re:Upon entering the premises...
WTF do people think that entering a store makes you the ownser's slave?
Make you a slave? No. Mean you have to abide by their rules? Yes. They can detain you if they think you are stealing their goods. They can preserve evidence by taking shopping bags and bag packs and what not. What's more these people aren't police. They don't have to abide by the fourth amendment. There have been several court cases that have found this to be true. One example is sited at Volokh.com:Does a user have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their files -- including images of child pornography -- posted on a password-protected website? In a decision handed down last week, Judge Stearns of the U.S. District Court for the District of Massachusetts concluded that the answer is "yes." At the same time, Judge Stearns refused to suppress the evidence in the particular case, finding that its collection was the fruits of a private search by a tipster. The case is United States v. D'Andrea.
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Re:Unconscienable == invalid & unenforceableNow the 9th has a hard-earned reputation as avant-garde [nutjobs]. Correction: people have unfairly and incorrectly tarred them with a reputation as avant-garde [nutjobs].
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1184633750.shtml let's look at how often the Supreme Court decides that the 9th got it wrong. Last term, the Supreme Court's reversal rate for 9th Circuit cases was 90.5 percent. Yikes--that's huge! But wait, for on-the-merits cases, the Supremes reversed the 3rd and 5th Circuits all of the time last term. Cases from state appellate courts fared no better: They also had a 100 percent reversal rate. Overall, this past term the Supreme Court reversed 75.3 percent of the cases they considered on their merits. The pattern holds true for the 2004 and 2005 terms as well, when the Supremes had overall reversal rates of 76.8 percent and 75.6 percent, respectively. For those years, the 9th was reversed 84 percent and 88.9 percent of the time, or about a case or two more each year than it would have been if it had conformed to the reversal rate of the other circuits. How do one or two cases a year add up to a court run amuck? -
Re:In other news...It's a legal concept which (very) roughly corresponds to we do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children
To wit:civil law. The right of enjoying a thing, the property
of which is vested in another, and to draw from the same all the profit,
utility and advantage which it may produce, provided it be without altering the
substance of the thing.
Or to put it another way,
"Sure you can stay at my house for the summer. Just don't trash the place." -
Re:The difference
You display your ignorance. There are blogs by noted authorities which are anything but what you say. Check out The Volokh Conspiracy. Same for Dinocrat and others.
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Misleading Summary
What the ruling held was that the header information of your email (and web browsing I believe) is subject to exactly the same standards as the information about what phone numbers you dial. Mostly this seems like an appropriate and totally correct extension of offline legal standards to the online world. The only reason that it is more problematic is that an email header includes things like the subject which contains a little bit of the content.
Still all things considered this seems like the correct rule. Subject lines don't contain that much information and if you are concerned you can just use an unrevealing subject. Moreover, we already contemplate the possibility that someone who happens to glance at the recipients screen might notice the title so it really doesn't seem like we have the same expectation of privacy for the title of the message as we do for the body.
Anyway for a better more interesting discussion about this case you can check out Orin Kerr's comments over at the Volokh Conspiracy. -
Re:Huh?
(why can't I help myself?)
The freaking WP editors think it was a boneheaded move:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2007/07/02/AR2007070201611.html?hpid=opinionsbo x1
25 year diabetic vet doesn't get a lighter sentence for pretty much the same thing as libby:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=33 02407
The entire investigation is by republicans for republicans (yet it's a liberal witch hunt party!)
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_07_01-2007 _07_07.shtml#1183437010
Dick's fingers are all over this one (eww!)... Justice Department Guidelines? Go F___ yourself!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2007/07/02/AR2007070202060.html?hpid=topnews -
My journal extry 6/18
Here's how I submitted the story a few days ago:
At Volokh, Professor Orin Kerr notes a 6th circuit decision (pdf) about whether the 4th Amendment's expectation of privacy applied to Yahoo emails. Yes. Wired has more. EFF's friend of the court brief may have helped.
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Meanwhile Dr. Kerr has more on the case, here. -
My journal extry 6/18
Here's how I submitted the story a few days ago:
At Volokh, Professor Orin Kerr notes a 6th circuit decision (pdf) about whether the 4th Amendment's expectation of privacy applied to Yahoo emails. Yes. Wired has more. EFF's friend of the court brief may have helped.
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Meanwhile Dr. Kerr has more on the case, here. -
Telegraphs are the most analogous
Whatever the law is for telegraphs should be the law for emails.
It is basically the same things 1s & 0s (long & short dashes) transmitted over copper wires (or fiber now a days) relayed by a machine or person (depending on the tech).
And even when relayed by a machine the Admin of the machine can read any email on the server. Email passes through multiple servers, at least the sending SMTP and the receiving POP/IMAP machines. I have no control over my ISP's POP server or the Admin thereof.
I assume there was no expectation of privacy in a telegraph and there should be none in an email. It would be nice, but it ain't how it works.
And now for some commentary from a real lawyer.
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_06_17-2007 _06_23.shtml#1182181742
[Orin Kerr, June 18, 2007 at 11:49am] Trackbacks
Sixth Circuit Blockbuster on E-Mail Privacy: In an earlier blog post on a pending case in the Sixth Circuit, Warshak v. United States, I figured there was no way the court would get to the merits of the Fourth Amendment issue lurking in the case: there were no facts yet and no decided statutory law, and surely the panel wouldn't be so reckless as to presumptively strike down a federal statute in the absence of facts or law given the procedural problems with the case. I had a funny feeling things would turn out differently when I learned who was on the panel, though, and that funny feeling turned out to be justified: the panel just issued a blockbuster decision that tries to answer how the Fourth Amendment applies to e-mail (all without any facts, amazingly) based on arguments from amicus briefs that the government didn't address all in the context of an appeal from a preliminary injunction. Wow. More on the decision later today.
UPDATE: Here's the key part of the opinion:
[Start Quote]
[W]e have little difficulty agreeing with the district court that individuals maintain a reasonable expectation of privacy in e-mails that are stored with, or sent or received through, a commercial ISP. The content of e-mail is something that the user "seeks to preserve as private," and therefore "may be constitutionally protected." Katz, 389 U.S. at 351. It goes without saying that like the telephone earlier in our history, e-mail is an ever-increasing mode of private communication, and protecting shared communications through this medium is as important to Fourth Amendment principles today as protecting telephone conversations has been in the past. See Katz, 389 U.S. at 352 ("To read the Constitution more narrowly is to ignore the vital role that the public telephone has come to play in private communication.")
[End Quote]
Notably, the court's Fourth Amendent analysis combines aspects of the probabilistic, private facts, positive law and policy model (the above-quoted section being from the policy model section). -
Re:So now we're afraid of swearing on the internet
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SWF seeks SWF ads already illegal?At least according to the Volokh Conspiracy http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_05_13-200
7 _05_19.shtml#1179259134: But both under California law and under federal law, it's illegal to tell prospective roomates about one's roommate preference, even when it's legal to actually discriminate based on that preference. It's illegal to put out an ad saying "Single white female seeks same to share apartment" (that's expressing a preference based on race and marital status), or "lesbian pagan seeks same" (preference based on sexual orientation and religion) -- and it's illegal to say that to people in person.This does seem pretty ridiculous, and clearly not very many people get in trouble for placing such ads, but there is some case law supporting it. In the roommates.com case, since they not only encouraged placing such statements, but seemingly also more-or-less required it, they were exposing themselves to liability. Plus, since they have much deeper pockets than your typical "SWF seeks same", they were much more likely to be taken to court.
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Re:Poor judgement
Nice try, but it is a violation of federal law to bring a fire-arm onto public school property.
This is incorrect. Each State controls the legality of firearms at schools unless they are on federal property.
In the case of Virginia, state law allows CCP holders to carry at universities but Virginia Tech policy forbids carrying by students or staff. If a student were to do so, they would be subject to administrative punishment.
http://volokh.com/posts/1178639680.shtml -
Re:Interesting comparison
At least we can teach the crusades in school.
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Re:School Censorship
There is statutory law at both the state and federal level that protects certain civil rights from private party infringement but the application of constitutional rights to common law is more nebulous. A good example are the statutory protections against discrimination by race or sex.
The law blog "The Volokh Conspiracy" has a recent discussion on a court case involving an employer, United Parcel Service, firing an employee for having a firearm stored in his car which was not on company property:
http://volokh.com/posts/1172173543.shtml -
Demographics and Long-term Objectives
I really don't understand why the heck they even let someone write a software player, how big of a market slice can that be?
I believe you forget the studios' objective; they want a more pirate-resistant successor to the current standard DVD. Ergo, they must be able to displace the current DVD market. A sizable minority of college students use a Windows PC with DVD drive (and perhaps tuner card) in lieu of a TV and DVD player to conserve space in cramped dorm rooms. While there is a trend away from desktops to increased laptop usage, USB tuners and large LCD external monitors are common enough and easily available, almost all current laptops come with drives that read DVDs (at least), and (looking ahead again) LCD projectors are getting cheaper and correspondingly more common. Due to the disposable income levels, the college and immediately post-college crowd is THE target demographic to hook, and while a gaming console is a luxury, a computer is considered just short of a necessity.
The software player market is not one they can yet afford to ignore.
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Some argue that warrants aren't required, anyway
From Akhil Reed Amar's excellent book, The Bill of Rights:
"the Fourth Amendment actually contains two different commands. First, all government searches and seizures must be reasonable. Second, no warrants shall issue without probable cause. The modern Supreme Court has intentionally collapsed the two requirements, treating all unwarranted searches and seizures--with various exceptions, such as exigent circumstances--as per se unreasonable."
http://volokh.com/posts/1155973771.shtml -
Conspiracy theory
The analysis over at The Volokh Conspiracy seemed to make sense. In particular "...instead of just informally requesting information in a context that would make clear the request is voluntary, the DoD and CIA seem to be issuing their requests using letters that look a lot like "real" National Security Letters. If that's right, the government would know that the letters have no legal effect, but they would be written so as to try to trick the recipients into thinking that they do."
This looks like more bending of the current administration's penchant for the rules to the breaking point (or past), using the excuse of a drastic threat to society. While I'm slightly sympathetic to such for dire threats, there is no evidence of this being for the unimaginably rare (dinosaur killer asteroid heading for earth) or for even the horrifically unthinkable (better than 50-50 chance of a million plus deaths). Instead, it's an attempt to covertly and permanently expand domestic intelligence powers when the legislature has refused to endorse such expansion.
Everyone should remember: "defending the Constitution against all threats, foreign and domestic" can include defending against yourself and your own darker impulses, and against any of lesser honor who may come to serve after you.