Swearing at Work is Bleeping Good For You

coondoggie writes "This is the kind of news that your HR folks don't want to hear, but researchers today said letting workers swear at will in the workplace can benefit employees and employers. The study found regular use of profanity to express and reinforce solidarity among staff, enabling them to express their feelings, such as frustration, and develop social relationships, according to researchers at the University of East Anglia (UES). Researchers said their aim was to challenge leadership styles and suggest ideas for best practice. "Employees use swearing on a continuous basis, but not necessarily in a negative, abusive manner. Swearing was as a social phenomenon to reflect solidarity and enhance group cohesiveness, or as a psychological phenomenon to release stress, " the study stated." I'm sure the discussion and tags on this story will be completely G Rated ;)

Comments

It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, people can communicate withought swearing. But this limits 'how' you communicate.

Limiting vocabulary impeads what you are really trying to say.

I can appreciate that some people are offended by some words. That doesn't always mean that the words are inappropriate.

Re:It is called open communication

[Valdrax]

Limiting vocabulary impeads what you are really trying to say.

That's "impedes," d---head.

Re:It is called open communication

[cloricus]

One thing that I really cannot stand is people who self censor or are scared to swear when it is socially acceptable (they deleted two days of work, or dropped a log on their foot). If you are going to swear do it, don't cross out letters, don't imply that is what would be there (for example the way they are editing it out of songs now your brain fills it in anyway). If you are not adult enough to brush off those who are so immature that they get offended you need to go back to high school and toughen up a bit.

I'm still considering if it is wise to see if slashdot has a swear word filter. :P

Re:It is called open communication

[Valdrax]

If you are not adult enough to brush off those who are so immature that they get offended you need to go back to high school and toughen up a bit.

Like I f---ing care what you think.

Re:It is called open communication

[Purity Of Essence]

I get where you are coming from, but euphemisms can be OK. For instance, I often substitute the word "fiddlesticks" for the exclamation "fuck", or use any number of other childish words -- especially ironic given my somewhat threatening appearance. For me, it adds humor and levity to the situation and reduces stress and negativity.

I had a good friend, a military man, who absolutely refused to cuss (as he called it) on general principle. I never once heard him say a "bad word" in all the years I knew him. The twist is, he regularly made some of the most bizarre, perverted, and depraved utterances using only the most professional and clinical descriptions he could muster. Such a sicko. Again, the disparity provided a certain humorous context.

Re:It is called open communication

[Danny Rathjens]

If you are not adult enough to brush off those who are so immature that they get offended you need to go back to high school and toughen up a bit.

I don't get offended by people cursing in professional settings. It simply lowers my opinion of them. If you aren't adult enough to control yourself then perhaps *you* should go back to high school and finish maturing. ;)

As for cursing in the workplace, I think it hurts the atmosphere. It may make the guy who just got off the phone with a dumb customer feel better to vent, but the dozen people who had to listen to his vehemence have all just had their days worsened a bit and everyone is a bit more on edge. We're human; harsh words and conflict make us feel bad. It's a simple formula. There is not much we can do about that.

That being said, people experiencing bad things together often bond together. I think that is the effect the study is showing.
I prefer having nice quiet, productive days much more than having my annoying primate instincts triggered by making me feel bad so I'll bond with people that aren't my friends.

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

> he regularly made some of the most bizarre, perverted, and depraved utterances using
> only the most professional and clinical descriptions he could muster

Citation, please.

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever works for you Flanders.

Re:It is called open communication

[Das Modell]

What pisses the shit out of me is that telling someone to fuck off is considered rude and unacceptable, but offending someone without the use of swear words is totally a-ok. Someone once gravely insulted me without uttering one swear word, and in response I said "fuck you." Then she acted like I was completely out of line whereas she had done nothing wrong. WHAT THE FUCK?!

Re:It is called open communication

[h4rm0ny]

Like I f---ing care what you think.

I have tourettes, you fucking insensitive cunt!!!!

Re:It is called open communication

[s_p_oneil]

Limiting vocabulary to real words that are spelled correctly "impeads" you even more. ;-)

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

But does that particular lexicon matter? Outside of chewing someone out for coming in late or slacking off, you only get a set of meaningless adjectives, pronouns, and the original meanings. While I admit it does help communicate anger and relieve stress, I also believe that profanity cannot be seen as actual words.
For example, if I exclaimed "What the shit?" in a conversation, can you give any concrete definition for 'shit' in that context?

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd mod you up if I wasn't an anonymous coward, but eh.
So true.

Re:It is called open communication

[object88]

As for cursing in the workplace, I think it hurts the atmosphere. It may make the guy who just got off the phone with a dumb customer feel better to vent, but the dozen people who had to listen to his vehemence have all just had their days worsened a bit and everyone is a bit more on edge. We're human; harsh words and conflict make us feel bad.

When those harsh words are directed toward us, true. However, they may also give us opportunity for empathy-- if my co-worker's just let off a string of explicative that would make a dockside prostitute blush, I may get the clue that he's frusterated as all fuck, and see if there's anything that I can do to help. I'm less likely to do so if his language fails to convey the extent of his woes due to self-censorship.

That said, I also think that swearing is best in a more casual situation. I'm not keen on swearing in front of customers or during a formal presentation.

Re:It is called open communication

[bynary]

Limiting vocabulary impeads what you are really trying to say. Not being able to adequately express what you feel is far worse than letting people "vent" using expletives. I think the real problem is that very few people know how to adequately express themselves and so resort to using base words.

Re:It is called open communication

[Rallion]

I agree, the taboo on certain words is ridiculous. Once, during a short stint in a retail position, I had a customer go off on me. Crazy. Huge rant, including phrases like, "you probably can't read," "mental defective," and many others. (In case you're wondering, it ultimately turned out that she had misread a price label.) The crazy (well, craziest) thing is this: as I stood there, somewhat stunned and very much unsure of how to react, a coworker came up and said something like, "Hey, don't you think that was pretty disrespectful and rude?" She responded, "No! I kept my language clean!" I laughed a little.

Some people say that using 'bad' language is some kind of crutch. As I watch people, I see that it's more common for people use the avoidance of certain words as a justification for (sometimes intense) rudeness.

Re:It is called open communication

[m00s3m4n]

Something along the lines of, "Obscenity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers!"

Re:It is called open communication

[SIIHP]

I recently dislocated my knee (extremely, indescribably painful) and while being wheeled into the ER with my kneecap on the wrong side of my leg, a nurse's assistant actually said to me as we were approaching the door

"Ok, there are kids in here, so let's keep the language clean".

Well, apparently I had been occasionally crying out with something along the lines of "FUCK!" because of my pain, which was exacerbated by any movement of any kind in any direction.

Needless to say, I told her how I felt about that particular idea.

And just as a rule, serious injuries get a pass, no exceptions. If you're so arrogant and self-important that you have to monitor my language while I sit in excruciating pain then you are really out of touch with what matters.

Re:It is called open communication

[NatasRevol]

Screw citation, I want an example!

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

to quote Bono, that's "...fucking brillant!"

Re:It is called open communication

[coaxial]

It doesn't hurt the atmostphere becase, like it or not, swearing is pervasive in today's society. It's just background that most people don't even notice.

You're example of someone feeling bad because they heard someone swear ("Oh my freakin' ears!" as Todd Flanders said) is completely meaningless, because that's a personal problem of "Todd Flanders." If he's that emotionally fragile he should stay home, since: 1) The comments aren't directed at him; 2) Why should he even care in the first place if someone swears? He should grow up and ignore it like the rest of society. Build up some psychological calluses and move on.

And about the "professional" comment: (I also suspect that you at least agree with whoever tagged the article "unprofessional") I always think of this quote from JWZ regarding swearing and Netscape's Really Bad Attitude mailing list:

"If anyone ever refers to you or anyone you work with as 'professional', then the coolness has left the building."

Re:It is called open communication

[Beardo the Bearded]

I try my best not to swear. It's not because I'm afraid to swear or offend, but rather that I have two small children, aged 1.5 and 3.5. I'd like them to be a little older before they start dropping "motherfuckers". Thus, I try not to swear at work so I won't get into the habit and teach them words they aren't ready for. The older girl can speak rather eloquently about photosynthesis and trigonometry.

That said, my dad taught me to swear during home renovations. "Fuckbuggerdamnpoo" was my favourite of all time. I'm looking forward to being able to pass it along to my kids.

As for "things your dad should have taught you", here's Beardo's advice, son: (I might have known your mother)

A) If you're worried about deleting two days of work, you should be using backups and source control.
B) Wear steel-toed boots when there's a chance that something will drop on your foot.

It's called prevention, and can be applied to almost all situations. You should try it sometime.

Re:It is called open communication

[beckerist]

When I see a hot chick walk by me: I'd pee in her butt.

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

Its all about points for style. Or perhaps, more accurately and tellingly...

When you swear, at least in a heated sense, you're going LCD. You're basically admitting that you don't have much to contribute anymore, and are just blasting out noise now. In other words: Its weakness. And the pack always senses weakness. And the pack always exploits weakness.

That's right boys and girls, when you're reduced to swearing, believe me, the wolves are already circling.

Re:It is called open communication

[fallungus]

I too can appreciate that some people are offended by some words. That is precisely why I use them.

Re:It is called open communication

[kurzweilfreak]

Ball sweat! Scrotum licker! That's a huge bitch!

Re:It is called open communication

[XdevXnull]

If I could say "fucking insensitive cunt" at school, I would be soooo happy...

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

I have Tourette's, you fucking insensitive cunt!!!!

Fixed that for ya, you stupid, ignorant, illiterate, disrespectful cock sucker

Re:It is called open communication

[Xtravar]

I had the same thing happen to me. Except I was polite and assertive, and afterward she told her superior that I swore at her.

People are afraid of assertiveness in general, and they use swearing as a scapegoat.

Re:It is called open communication

[greenbird]

What pisses the shit out of me is that telling someone to fuck off is considered rude and unacceptable, but offending someone without the use of swear words is totally a-ok.

This is the key to swearing especially at work. Not that it was were I started, I really learned to swear in the Army. The above study should have been done on an Infantry squad. That will quickly teach you to use cuss words effectively. When I want to attack or insult some one I most assuredly don't use cuss words or even non-cussing insults or attacks. It's much more effective to use logic applied as subtly sarcastic, biting rhetoric that makes them look like a compete idiot rather than resorting to emotional attacks or name calling (whether using cuss words or not). It doesn't allow them to call out anything specific as an insult or attack which is usually more effective than the attack itself. They stand there thinking "he just made me look like a complete idiot" without being able to point to anything specific as an insult or attack. The response usually makes the person look even worse because rather than a reasoned response the subtle rhetoric attack usually evokes an unreasoned emotional response. That being said I think cussing is a very effective way of communicating when used correctly but using it to insult or attack someone is not an effective use, especially at work.

Re:It is called open communication

[happyfrogcow]

What pisses the shit out of me is that telling someone to fuck off is considered rude and unacceptable, but offending someone without the use of swear words is totally a-ok. Someone once gravely insulted me without uttering one swear word, and in response I said "fuck you." Then she acted like I was completely out of line whereas she had done nothing wrong. WHAT THE FUCK?!


Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate... bitch.

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

There's only so much shit perfume can cover.
The pack IS the weakness.

Re:It is called open communication

[Das Modell]

When you swear, at least in a heated sense, you're going LCD. You're basically admitting that you don't have much to contribute anymore, and are just blasting out noise now.

A pile of shit is a pile of shit even if you sprinkle it with roses and gift wrap it. A long-winded and proftanity-free explanation of why you think someone is an asshole still just means that you're calling someone an asshole. There's certainly no "contribution" (what?) involved in that. It's no better than simply saying "fuck you." In fact, simply saying "fuck you" is far more respectable and civilized, because you aren't pretending like you aren't really insulting someone.

In other words: Its weakness. And the pack always senses weakness. And the pack always exploits weakness. That's right boys and girls, when you're reduced to swearing, believe me, the wolves are already circling.

What wolves? What are they going to do to me? If they don't get physical, there's fuckall they can do about it, and the kind of people who are upset by swearing are unlikely to be very good at fighting. Swearing doesn't even have anything to do with fighting ability, ergo swearing doesn't mean that you're weak.

Re:It is called open communication

[h4rm0ny]

If I could say "fucking insensitive cunt" at school, I would be soooo happy...

I'll take a guess that you're american, seeing as at the schools here in the UK, it's only the word 'insensitive' that gets omitted. And as I understand it, the USA does not like the French due to opposition to the Iraq invasion, cheese-jealousy, etc. Hence 'freedom fries' and so forth. (Stick with me, I'm going somewhere with this). So if you wish to say fucking and cunt, you can justify it as resisting French oppression. You see both Fuck and Cunt are genuine English words with a long history and weren't always considered vulgar. This all changed with the Norman invasion of England, when the French speaking invaders turned everything upside down and the language of the court and nobility became French (the Lingua Franca, if you'll forgive me). Not only did the sycophantic nobility of England use French, but the aspiring well-to-do also put on airs and graces and adopted french. And the use of English words became looked down on and a sign that one was lower class. Indeed, the word vulgar is actually just Latin for common. The entire prejudice against these words is, essentially, a class thing.

As a country with a good solid founding in patriotism and Francophobia, I believe that you should embrace such words and I encourage you to boldy explain such to your tutors, denouncing them as French-loving sycophants if they disagree; and declare that all americans should be proud of their cunts and generous with their fucks. If you are criticised for use of either of these words, the correct response is not sorry, but "WHY DO YOU HATE CHAUCER?"

So good luck with the fucking and the cunt. I'm afraid I'm not much good on the insensitive, but I don't let that stop me.

Regards,
-H.

Re:It is called open communication

[TechwoIf]

Swear words are not vulgar when used as the above. But one must be careful not to be misinterpreted as being a jerk/asshole/etc. when doing that. I sometime use swear words, but at the right time or right context. I've always been of the opinion of using swear words when unnecessary is bad manners and inappropriate in most cases.

When writing/texting, using f**k instead of fuck always irks me because you really don't know what they meant. Under computers, ** is a wildcard and therefore the word has many meanings. Or did they mean literal *? Like the one slashdot articial linking a forum with the title of "F**K...". Was it "F**K.." or "FUCK..."? Most systems don't consider "*" as a wildcard for a title, but do in a search, so finding the title of "F**K..." can be daunting at best. Under search, is it "F\*\*K..." or is there a different "esc" character that must be used.

Does slashdot has a policy in place for the editors to use when a summery contains swear words?

Re:It is called open communication

[h4rm0ny]

I agree to some extent, but then any words used inappropriately are a mistake. Someone who drops words like ratiocination into a sentence for the sake of it is as bad or worse, than someone who similarly wishes to merely portray an image of themselves. But the notion that a word is inherently bad in and of itself is difficult to support. You can say that the word cunt has a harsh sound on the ear and therefore inherently has greater potential for connoting aggression than a word like boobies... but it's stretching it to say that there's anything more than that which makes cunt intrinsically an obscene word. What it does lack is the stifling, clinicality of other terms such as vagina which protect them against the sex=obscenity value-system many people have. But I, like many others, do not share that sex=obscenity value-system and do not consider cunt, fuck, cock and all their ilk to be necessarily bad. As far as I am concerned, growing up in an environment where these words are commonplace, I have come to resent other people telling me how I may or may not speak. Though I was quite jokey (and glib) in my nearby post in tracing the transformation of these words into "obscenities," I was serious when I stated that it has its origins in class prejudice (and still does, today). For any individual or section of society to thumb its nose at another and look down on them for talking differently, is rank and disgusting to me. Now I have a very good vocabulary and like Humpty Dumpty, when I use a word, it means exactly what I intend it to mean, no more or less. So in this post and in working conversations, the fucks are few and far between for they are not needed, but I have no problem with them and they colour my speech often enough.

What is reprehensible is the introduction of wildcard symbols into obvious swear words, as in f**k or c*nt. These are far worse to me because they clearly convey to the reader that regardless of any obscenity-blindness on their part, the word is intended to convey an offence. The meaning is not at all concealed and the obscenity angle is emphasized. Far better to use the word itself in the appropriate context.

The word is not the issue for me. The meaning is. To say you fucked someone sounds negative and souless to me. But to say you really fucking love someone... well, that's just great. :)

Re:It is called open communication

[Eivind]

It's a US-thing. Acting as if the words themselves are poisonus, while in reality the offensiveness is in the -meaning-.

This leads to complete nonsense such as people writint "f**k you" which avoids the taboo word, but does absolutely nothing to the meaning, since everyone above age 4 understands perfectly well what is meant.

Or TV-channels with "-BLEEP- you, you BLEEEEP piece of BLEEEEEP" which is exactly as offensive as it'd have been without the bleeps.

I don't get it either. And I agree, you can be patently offensive without using any word a distinguished gentleman wouldn't use.

Re:It is called open communication

[analogheretic]

WHOOSH!

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

We're human; harsh words and conflict make us feel bad.

I can tell by your choice of words that you still wet the bed.

Dipshit motherfucker.

Re:It is called open communication

[mark_hill97]

You think steel-toed boots make it not hurt?
hell no. it still hurts, it just doesn't break. Well at least not if your lucky, otherwise the metal can get bent and thats one fucking painful experience.

Re:It is called open communication

[Danny Rathjens]

I can tell by your choice of words that you still wet the bed. Dipshit motherfucker. You make a valid counterpoint. There are certainly people such as yourself that thrive on conflict and provoking people. But those people get jobs as car salesman or stock traders on the floor of the NYSE or they collect disability/leech from family and troll people online all day. They don't become computer programmers and work in quiet environments. :)

Re:It is called open communication

[fireforadrymouth]

Yea there's no way he was referring to this.

What is a genuine English word, again?

The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang (Random House, 1994, ISBN 0-394-54427-7) cites Middle Dutch fokken = "to thrust, copulate with"; Norwegian dialect fukka = "to copulate"; and Swedish dialect focka = "to strike, push, copulate" and fock = "penis". Although German ficken may enter the picture somehow, it is problematic in having e-grade, or umlaut, where all the others have o-grade or zero-grade of the vowel.

Re:It is called open communication

[Wolfrider]

" I'm the JUGGERNAUT, Beyotch!! "
;-)

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm surprised no one has brought up a reference of the old X-Files episode where they were using the word 'bleeping' all the 'bleeping' time. Scully: "That was Detective Manners. He said they just found your bleeping UFO." That was classic.
PS My captcha ironically reads discuss :)

Re:It is called open communication

[kklein]

I agree wholeheartedly. Profanity is a way for the speaker to let off steam. There is no semantic content to "fuck" when used as an expletive; it is just emphatic.

I used to work in tech support (for Apple, during the switch to PPC--not a fun time for that company), and the rule was that if the customer swore, we were allowed to terminate the call. I always hated that, because most reps just used that as an excuse to get rid of annoying customer service problems. But the thing is that if you disconnect someone while they're venting, they are just going to get angrier and call back. It makes the problem worse.

After noticing this trend, I stopped disconnecting customers who were screaming. As long as they weren't personally abusive to me (they almost never were--they were angry at the computer, angry at the company, angry at themselves for not backing up, angry at life, angry at a really shitty day--almost never were they angry at the person on the other end of the line), I let them just go. Just let them get it all out. I took notes whenever something emerged that was actually useful information, but mostly they just wanted to vent. And who doesn't???

I found that if you let people do this for about 2 minutes, and let them know that you empathized, as a fellow human being, with what they were going through, they would calm down and just be the easiest people to deal with all day. They felt relaxed. They felt like someone who could help them actually listened to them. They were also incredibly polite after that because they knew that the person listening had done them the human kindness of listening, when most people would have just hung up, and that they could not really be angry at them.

Profanity is very rarely about the listener; it's about the speaker. Sure, we could all walk around quantifying and qualifying our exact feelings in measured, calculated, meaningful lexical choices, but when we want to use profanity is when the idea is not really worth encoding, but we feel a need to express the emotion nonetheless. This is profanity's role in the English language, and most other languages have analogues.

People who are offended by profanity are weak, small, scheming people, IMO. They don't want to be around anyone who expresses their feelings, because feelings and human interaction embarrass them. As a general rule, I don't trust people who do not swear. They are obviously controlling their output, hiding their feelings. What else are they hiding? When I think back on the people who have been loyal coworkers who treated people with respect and fairness, they are the swearers. I have never been backstabbed by a swearer. It's always, in my experience, the people who don't. Swearing in front of someone is saying "I consider you close enough to expose this part of me." Refraining from doing so says, "You and I are wholly unrelated. You will act upon the information I impart." Granted, it's not like non-swearers are bad people. It's just that I am much more careful in dealing with them.

(Full disclosure: I swear like a motherfucker, so I may be a bit biased.)

Re:It is called open communication

[jaxtherat]

...me feel bad so I'll bond with people that aren't my friends.

That is such a snotty thing to say. You must be one of those elitist fucks who doesn't say hello to people at work because they 'aren't your friends'. You don't magically make friends appear, you become friends with a stranger through bonding, and in my profession usually by swearing our fucking heads off trying to troubleshoot a b0rked database.

Re:It is called open communication

[krayzkrok]

Context, though, is very important. If I'm talking to my boss, I'm probably not going to use much profanity. But if I want to communicate effectively to, say, a group of construction workers who know me, the right use of profanity can actually help. If you don't come across as being a stuck up wanker, you probably won't be regarded as one!

Re:It is called open communication

[Danny Rathjens]

Not saying hello to people in the workplace would be just as bad as using vulgarity, if not worse.

I know the concept is frowned upon in today's divided red vs blue world where people assume anyone that disagrees with them is an extremist at the opposite end of the spectrum from themselves -- as evidenced by your bizarre assumption that I am an "elitist fuck" -- but perhaps the best approach would be one of moderation. Find a middle ground of professional politeness somewhere between "swearing your fucking head off" and ignoring everyone.

Re:It is called open communication

[stanleypane]

Bonding together over bad experiences in the work place doesn't sound so bad. It's going to happen whether people use foul language or not.

Besides, bonding in the work place doesn't have to be some big deal. Bonding in the workplace is just getting to know someone well enough that you are comfortable speaking with them frankly. It's being able to use expletives without blushing and feeling like you've just dropped an f-bomb in front of Granny.

...making me feel bad so I'll bond with people that aren't my friends.

That line alone speaks volumes about your attitude towards work. I spend at least 9 hours a day at work during the week and I sure as hell am not isolating myself from the world while I'm there. Let the corporate world mold you any way you want, but the rest of us want to make work as comfortable as possible since it is such a large part of our lives.

Re:It is called open communication

[Danny Rathjens]

Apparently I misspoke since you are the second to take that phrase out of context and misread it that way. I often socialize with co-workers (going out to eat, playing D&D, etc.) since we are a small company with all bright people. I'm the type that actually uses words like "acquaintance" instead of lumping together all the people I ever socialize with as a "friend" which seems to be more popular usage nowadays, so not calling co-workers my friends is not as bad as it sounds. ;) I just don't want to go work someplace where managers have read studies like this and decided to try to manipulate the environment to force social bonding among the staff for some alleged gain in productivity.

Re:It is called open communication

[jaxtherat]

No, I completely agree with moderation. One thing that shits me about my current work place, is the closest thing I have to a technical co-worker is a hardcore christian, and he doesn't like swearing or other people swearing around him at all.

Which causes a lot more stress for me as I'm constantly making sure I don't accidentally blurt out something horribly offensive :)

Re:It is called open communication

[paeanblack]

And as I understand it, the USA does not like the French due to opposition to the Iraq invasion, cheese-jealousy, etc. Hence 'freedom fries' and so forth.

Remember, after 40 years of Cold War, Russian Dressing was still Russian Dressing.

It's not that Americans don't like the French; it's that they don't respect them.

Re:It is called open communication

[Mal-2]

I've used swearing in the office when appropriate -- when nothing else will serve the purpose. I wouldn't do it to a client (though I've seen "WTF" in e-mails FROM clients), but I won't hesitate to quote someone exactly if it involves profanity (for example the Bill Gates "that's the dumbest fucking idea I've ever heard" anecdote). I've also been known to give a harsh opinion -- I think it's only been a week since I said about someone's presentation "it looks like shit on a stick, but I think he'll get the account anyhow, because his facts are good". And of course, nobody bats an eyebrow at a response of "that's bullshit!" when it's clearly the case.

For those who are manipulative and political, a well-timed "accidental" swear word can make you look honest and forthcoming when you may not be. If you are willing to call bullshit on someone once, people might consider you more likely to do so in the future, for example.

Mal-2

Re:It is called open communication

[tacocat]

On the contrary. Being forced into a position where you can't use the F-bomb as your only adjective forces you to think more carefully about selecting your words and improve or refine your means of communication. Otherwise it becomes confusing if you mean it's effing good or effing bad or you're effing the secretary.

I think this is some rather flawed research. Perhaps the people who find they have to restrain their speech, because they don't know any better options, find work to be more stressful. That's a failing of the individual and not the work environment.

Re:It is called open communication

[Eunuchswear]

Nah, lack of respect wasn't the problem - it was that everybody knew the French were right.

You may dislike someone who disagrees with you.

You will hate someone who disagrees with you who you know is right.

Re:It is called open communication

[rozz]

It doesn't hurt the atmostphere becase, like it or not, swearing is pervasive in today's society. i guess by "today's society" you meant "coaxial's neighborhood" ... cause otherwise i totally disagree with the above affirmation.
and even if you were right and that was true about the entire humankind, i would still not agree or accept the situation like you seem to propose ... i mean, if the majority are idiots, it does not mean i have to be one too!

plus, you also suggest that ppl who do not accept swearing are some sort of supersensitive weaklings that should stay home ... 100% disagree with that ... i'd consider myself that kind of weakling if i accepted and embraced the swearing ... again, even if you live between pigs you dont have to be one.

Re:It is called open communication

[Bloke down the pub]

Or TV-channels with "-BLEEP- you, you BLEEEEP piece of BLEEEEEP" which is exactly as offensive as it'd have been without the bleeps.

It's also ten times as annoying, and no doubt causes the kids to be extra curious about what words the man really said, thus being self defeating too.

Re:It is called open communication

[SIIHP]

"That's right boys and girls, when you're reduced to swearing, believe me, the wolves are already circling."

That's funny, because it's exactly the opposite for me. I consider swearing a very valuable tool for telling the other sheep in the office that I'm not like them, and won't be pushed around easily.

I suspect you're one of those sheep, pretending you're cowardice is strength.

Re:It is called open communication

[ShannaraFan]

> If I'm talking to my boss, I'm probably not going to use much profanity

Ha, my previous boss couldn't complete a sentence without an effenheimer or two. "Fucking marketing wants to move the goddamn web site to some piss-ant web host down in BumFuck, Iowa."

Staff meetings were such fun...

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

They use "frack" on BattleStar Galactica. This was spoofed in an episode of Robot Chicken, where the censors are watching the BSG characters saying 'frack' and wondering aloud, "what the [bleep] are they saying?" It was hilarious! :D

Re:It is called open communication

[AgentSmith]

"Well Forget you, man! Forget you!"

This is my all-time favorite censor. You see a guy (especially Joe Pesci) who is in the throws of rage
and he utters something like this. It's a disconnect with reality.

Swearing, like anger, has an appropriate time and a place. While growing up I was told not to swear
at my folks, at my elders and in front of a lady. Which pretty much applied to everyone
expect friends at school. Do I swear now? Hell yea!

Do I swear in front of my son.? No.
Do I swear at work? You bet!
Do I swear during formal meetings. Heck no!

Are we seeing a pattern? I hate to break it to people. Unless you have money and/or power, polite society requires you to have
just a little decorum during civilized conversation.

Now, if someone at the dinner table comes at me with a knife or calls me a motherfucking wanker, it's game on!

Re:It is called open communication

[planckscale]

How the hell did you dislocate your knee? I saw a show recently where a girl dislocated her knee and she looked like she was dying. And doesn't that tear the shit out of your ACL? I agree, fuck that fucking nurse and all the fucking kids in the fucking world, get you some fucking MORPHINE!!

Re:It is called open communication

[coaxial]

I find it odd that you would disagree with the pervasiveness of swearing. Simply walk down any city street and eavesdrop on the conversations. You'll find someone swearing in no time.

There's a big difference between not swearing and getting all up in arms and your feelings hurt when someone swears, even when it is not directed at you. If you get your feelings hurt when someone says to you, "You know what Rozz? I think Jimmy is a fucking idiot." then you are a supersentive weaking that should stay home. Of course you don't agree with that statement. No one wants to consider themselves supersenstive weakings, but often one's perceptions of himself does not match that truth.

So in conclusion, while you don't have to be a pig, you don't have to say "Oh no the pigs! The pigs!" cause that's a personal problem. Deal with it.

Re:It is called open communication

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet you put on an air of superiority because of your disdain for certain words and make analogies about idiots and pigs. That makes you the fucking cunt. You are not better than any other person in any way, shape, or form because you choose or don't choose to use certain words.

Re:It is called open communication

[CopaceticOpus]

I agree with your point, but I am most distressed by the notion of pissing out one's own shit. One would hope that the shit would at least be in a thin, liquid state to make such an act possible. And yet, one must question how the vile poop did find its way to the pisshole. Something internal has gone all fucked up sideways to allow such a fecal pathway.

Re:It is called open communication

[rozz]

I find it odd that you would disagree with the pervasiveness of swearing. Simply walk down any city street and eavesdrop on the conversations. You'll find someone swearing in no time.
well, you may be surprised to hear that there are neighborhoods, cities or even entire countries where swearing is not pervasive... some languages dont even offer much support for that kind of speach ... and i'm not talking about some obscure dialect used by 5 ppl, but about a language like german.
e.g. go to switzerland and you may be surprised to spend weeks, even months without hearing any swearing.

There's a big difference between not swearing and getting all up in arms and your feelings hurt when someone swears, even when it is not directed at you. If you get your feelings hurt when someone says to you, "You know what Rozz? I think Jimmy is a fucking idiot." then you are a supersentive weaking that should stay home. Of course you don't agree with that statement. No one wants to consider themselves supersenstive weakings, but often one's perceptions of himself does not match that truth.
there diff you noted clearly exists but i wasnt talking about the "mommy, mommy, jimmy said fuck" crowd ... i wont start crying is someone swears at me, but that doesnt mean i have to accept that kind of behavior or even consider it normal.

So in conclusion, while you don't have to be a pig, you don't have to say "Oh no the pigs! The pigs!" cause that's a personal problem. Deal with it.

i hope by "deal with it" you dont mean i should start shouting "fuck off you pigs" ?! and why should i deal with it, is it my fault that they cannot express themselves without throwing mud?
anyway ... i have a better solution .... i can live between human beings and never have to lose my time "dealing with it".

Re:It is called open communication

[Eivind]

That's the thing though, the US media-taboo is largely context-free. That is, they'll strenously avoid saying the "bad" words, even when it'd perfectly apropriate, or even an understatement.

Hell, they even avoid saying "fuck" when the characters are -literally- fucking. Some avoid it in pecularily silly ways, like going to the extreme of inventing a perfectly fictious word that everyone understands within the first 3 minutes actually just means "fuck", then using that word regularily. Farscape I'm looking at you. Frell you ! (they speak perfectly normal english, but they've invented about half a dozen words to use instead of swear-words. "Frell" for "fuck", "boll-yotz" for "bull-shit", "dren" for "shit", "trelk" for "whore".

It's just silly. They use the words in a way that is perfectly apropriate for the show and the situations, I just don't get why they can't just bloody -say- "bull-shit" if that's what they mean.

It's really obvious that it's been done to avoid the "bad" words too. Because literally ALL common swear-words used in the show have alternative words for them, such as these I mention, while a miniscule portion of other (non-swearing) existing words are similarily reinvtented.

Re:It is called open communication

[tehcyder]

So good luck with the fucking and the cunt.

It's like reading Lord Chesterfield's letters to his son on here sometimes.

Re:It is called open communication

[tehcyder]

The older girl can speak rather eloquently about photosynthesis and trigonometry.

I'm impressed that my 3 1/2 year old can tie her own fucking shoelaces.

Re:It is called open communication

[Santana]

Wooosh! to you. That was funny.

Re:It is called open communication

[Beardo the Bearded]

Well, the conversations are a little limited:

Me: "What do plants eat?"

Her: "Sunlight!"

Me: "And what's that called?"

Her: "Photosynthesis."

Also:

Me: "What shapes have three sides?"

Her: "Triangles."

Me: "And how do you study triangles?"

Her: "Trigonometry."

Good for you?

[psychicsword]

I can see your point, but I still think you are full of shit
That is fucking bullshit.
They must be talking out of their ass!

Next they will be saying that Porn is good for productivity

Re:Good for you?

[Applekid]

Next they will be saying that Porn is good for productivity It is, until a little while later when all I get is sleepy.

Re:Good for you?

[Bloke down the pub]

Next they will be saying that Porn is good for productivity

I work at a sperm bank, you insensitive clod!!!!

Re:Good for you?

[Hoi Polloi]

Fuck ya! Does this research apply to jobs in daycare or elementary schools? "Ok you little shits, we're having a pop quiz."

Next they'll be saying that sex on your desk is good for productivity. And I'll keep on saying it...

Re:Good for you?

[monk.e.boy]

I work at a sperm bank, you insensitive clod!!!!

You wank off other blokes for a living?

ugh

Re:Good for you?

[Bloke down the pub]

No. Like most things these days, it's all self service apart from the paperwork.

Re:Good for you?

[MindStalker]

Umm yea, kids need to be yelled at occasionally. Yea you don't want an angry teacher. But sure, why not if the kids really deserve it, let em have it..

Re:Good for you?

[tsbiscaro]

Pics anyone?

Re:Good for you?

[butterwise]

Next they'll be saying that sex on your desk is good for productivity.

Having sex, whether on a desk or elsewhere, is typically the way people produce. Do we need to have the "birds and bees" talk?

Re:Good for you?

[arktemplar]

I thought that was how people reproduced

Re:Good for you?

[myyrk]

So you went from falling asleep on woman to falling asleep on your hand?

Re:Good for you?

[UncleTogie]

I thought that was how people reproduced.

....only if it's their second kid...

Re:Good for you?

[Anonymous Coward]

GP:
...in daycare or elementary schools? ... Next they'll be saying that sex on your desk is good for productivity.

P:
But sure, why not if the kids really deserve it, let em have it..

Yikes, is all I'm saying.

Re:Good for you?

[asretfroodle]

You should probably have made the schools remark in a different comment to the sex on desks one...

Re:Good for you?

[bleckywelcky]

If sperm banks gave out free hand jobs, imagine how good business would be. I know I'd go down there every couple of days.

Well, duh.

[EveryNickIsTaken]

No shit.

Re:Well, duh.

[sacherjj]

Actually, I'm finally at a work place where the IT department isn't F this and GD that. Frankly, I like it. You emulate those that you are around the most. I actually enjoy an environment that doesn't reward those talking like a salty sailor.

Re:Well, duh.

[EveryNickIsTaken]

I often find that people who are uptight about curse words/swearing tend to be the ones that have nervous breakdowns and quit. Swearing and free speech in general is a good thing, IMO.

Re:Well, duh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cussing and swearing at work is only an attempt at intimidation.
We're supposed to think that anyone who would take the Lord's name in vain will
think nothing of punching you in the nose. Only rarely does the lightening bolt strike as it should when someone curses.

Life in the workplace is not a Clint Eastwood movie, where the bad guys get what they deserve when they pop off at the mouth.

Since we do have to tolerate intimidation in the workplace, we do enjoy shows like Catwoman, or Walker Texas Ranger in our off-time.

'bout ****ing time

[athdemo]

I mean, ****, why am I always being ****ing censored at work. We're all ****ing adults here, right? ****.

University of East Anglia (UES)

[TheThiefMaster]

Shouldn't that be "University of East Anglia (UEA)" ?

Re:University of East Anglia (UES)

[zeromorph]

It actually is:
http://www.uea.ac.uk/

But better to miss the key, than sending a whole university to Abu Dhabi (UAE).

I have to go back to my flipping work....

Re:University of East Anglia (UES)

[Anonymous Coward]

Why have so few people picked up on this and why hasn't it been changed..? - A confused student at UEA

Re:University of East Anglia (UES)

[aproposofwhat]

A confused student at UEA

Quite.

Disclaimer - I went to a university in East Anglia, but it wasn't UEA - in fact I spent most of my time rowing and drinking Greene King IPA :P

Re:It is called FUBAR

[monk.e.boy]

fubar

Fucking Post

[Iskender]

Fucking Post!

odd...I know people who got fired..

[huckda]

for use of vulgar language in meetings...
how can getting fired be healthy for you? (unless your in a dead end job and need the catalyst to get off your duff and go get a career)

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[thegnu]

for use of vulgar language in meetings...
how can getting fired be healthy for you?

The point of the article is that being in an environment that allows greater freedom of expression is good for you. Not that swearing when it's inappropriate or against policy is good for you.

Though I've sworn at a client that was late in paying me $3000. But I was essentially in a situation where I had to demonstrate the fact that I owned (pwnd, rather) all their data before they paid me. So I felt rather justified.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Colin Smith]

unless your in a dead end job and need the catalyst to get off your duff and go get a career All jobs are "dead end". Have a look at the depth of the management hierarchy next time you're in work. The whole paradigm of "a career" is an HR idea to motivate you to work 60 hours for the price of 40.

The only sane way to "make progress" is to work as an independent.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Anonymous Coward]

God damn fired for swearing? I'm pretty fucking sure I could win that bullshit lawsuit.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Anonymous Coward]

OK.

- My boss (owner of the company)
- Me

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Colin Smith]

- My boss (owner of the company)
- Me Good luck making progress in that situation.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Cajun Hell]

Perhaps the point is that firing people for something as ridiculously trivial as vulgarity, isn't healthy for your company. Managers: Let your people harmlessly blow off steam, or be at a competitive disadvantage.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[TheSkyIsPurple]

You know what else is damaging for your company?
Getting sued into oblivion because someone on your staff was offended by something someone else said, and you did nothing to protect them.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Chrisje]

In Soviet Russia, vulgarities fire you!

Seriously, how is this news? I work for HP, and I've done nothing but swear with colleagues for the last 12 years. Not necessarily inside meetings, but sometimes definitely with customers on projects and whatnot.

I mean when you're in a data center and someone overwrites a production LUN to an Oracle Server because he took the wrong hardware path for his ignite restore, the customer won't say "Oh golly, that was rather unlucky, mate!" Shit no, we' be Fuck this and Fuck that. Or in sweden Jävla Faaaan! Hörrudu va'görru nu din dumma skit!. This is a completely normal thing if the shit hits the fan and the relationship is solid.

Most companies know this. Unless you're caught in an eternal re-run of Office Space.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Seumas]

The modern workplace is like an advanced kindergarten.

If the business world was a lot more like it was back in the day (watch Mad Men on AMC for a really accurate depiction), people would feel a lot better about themselves.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"for use of vulgar language in meetings...
how can getting fired be healthy for you? (unless your in a dead end job and need the catalyst to get off your duff and go get a career)"

Just read the fucking article and shut the fuck up.

(Actually I didn't pay a lot of attention reading your post, I've just always wanted to say that and get modded up for it.)

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[moeinvt]

" I know people who got fired for use of vulgar language in meetings ... how can getting fired be healthy for you?"

If your management is anal enough to fire a good employee because they happened to utter a few fucking expletives, I'd say leave now. Can't be a fun place to work knowing that you're a few WORDS away from losing your job at any moment.

Let me know what company fired someone for "vulgar language" so I can be damned sure that I never take a job with them.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Cajun Hell]

Asshole: "This policy is fucking stupid. We should encourage the fucking customers to read the fucking manuals before they fucking call our fucking overworked-as-fuck support line."
Bitch: "You said 'fucking' to me! That's sexual harrassment!"
Asshole: "Relax. I'm just fucking with you."
Bitch: *gasp*
Asshole: "Gasp again. You look and sound so fucking sexy when you do that."
Bitch: "Oh, you're actually coming on to me? I thought you were just using profanity to offend me, so I was going to sue. But now.. Kiss me, you fool!"

See? It all works out. Nobody gets sued.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Opportunist]

It's been said before, it depends on the context, the situation and most of all on the relationship between the people involved. If my coworker next to me tells me that my code is bullshit while taking a glance at it during a normal working day it's a completely different thing than, say, some guy from another department who has to interface with my code (but hasn't any other kind of touching points with me) saying the same about it in a meeting.

I guess the difference is clear.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[moeinvt]

The OP claimed that they knew people(more than 1?) who had been fired for using "vulgar language" in a meeting. I think that's indicative of nitpicking authoritarian business culture which I would want no part of.

In your scenario, there's a clear difference between one of your co-workers criticizing your code person to person and some guy from another group trashing it in front of a group during a meeting, regardless of word choice.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[olddotter]

I have known plenty of people in a dead end job and need the catalyst to go get a career. (Hell I might be there myself at the moment. :-)

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[kc2keo]

I worked in a IT job with a dress code that made you wear shirt, tie, and nice pants with shoes (super uncomfortable). Everyone was nice and all. But I think they were eaves dropping on me since I was a new hire. I got caught cursing at lunch for some reason. I am not afraid to curse either. However I do not curse all the time and normally when I am pissed, want to make others pissed that are offended by curse words, fuck etc...
So I was fired probably because of that and some other "indecent actions".
So fuck yeah!

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they got out from working at a shitty-ass place that restricts how people speak for no fucking reason. A place that uptight IS a dead-end job. Fuck that job, fuck the meeting, fuck you, fuck your employer, and fuck the person who did the firing right in the ear.

          If you want to learn how to swear right and proper, watch Trailer Park Boys.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[ContractualObligatio]

To contradict the article, you would have to come up with examples of people who had been fired for vulgar language where vulgarity was explicitly allowed under HR policy. Surely you only know people who got fired for vulgar language where no such policy exists?

And if you know people were fired despite having such a policy, did the individuals take the company to court for sacking them for something they'd been directly told they could do? If not, why not?

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[magical_mystery_meat]

thank you

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[popeye44]

if I've told you once I've told you a million times. Stick those fucking TPS reports up your Administrative-Ass.

I can see that getting me fired.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[thegnu]

While I overall concur, excessive swearing is an indicator of mental laziness, as is excessive use of any term (Git 'R Done!).

Inappropriate also refers to talking about anal rape and violence around someone else's daughter.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Scarletdown]

Sounds like both Asshole and Bitch in the above scenario need to be forced to watch this informative video about sexual harassment in the workplace.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[Anonymous Coward]

OK.

- My boss (owner of the company)
- Me

If (or when) your pay (or skillset) isn't making progress at an acceptable rate, bail out. As my wife says, "Renting a house is building someone else's retirement fund. Buying a house is building your own retirement fund."

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[jimmux]

Maybe it's an HP thing. That would be consistent with my experience, anyway.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[huckda]

The only sane way to "make progress" is to work as an independent. which I do ;) and I love it!

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[huckda]

perhaps if it's only to let off steam it is one thing..

but when the vulgarities outweigh the INTELLIGENT words ushered forth from your mouth there is an issue.

and perhaps I was the only one brought up this way on Slashdot...but I was taught to NEVER swear/curse/cuss in front of a woman...PERIOD.

Re:odd...I know people who got fired..

[huckda]

Uhhh...yeah....
we'll need those TPS reports by 10am...okayyy?
thanks...

FUCK YEAH!

[morari]

Take that work-based internet monitor!

Fuck yeah

[analog_line]

It's about fucking time someone fucking realized that a bit of fucking swearing is good for stress levels? Shit, how many fucking times have I told people this shit?!?!

Jackasses.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[monk.e.boy]

Oh, I did went an' fo'got: SNAFU

But comming from the UK, we tend to use "that's a bunch of turd burger" a lot

And instead of Burger King, we use Turd Burgerler King. Or Kurger Bing.

:-)

Please MOD informative. ;-)

Actual news release

[peipas]

Here's the actual release from the source, rather than a Network World recap.

Re:Actual news release

[Doctor Crumb]

How many people do you think even read the fucking article? Like hell they're going to read the actual release.

Re:Actual news release

[Anonymous Coward]

fucking network world shit recaps...

Re:Actual news release

[mapkinase]

What is the methodology of this Baruch guy? I am pretty sure they could have easily arrived to the conclusion that swearing is very healthy for the cursing individual, but how did they actually prove that it is also beneficial for those who are forced to listen to obscenities?

Our HR department...

[Jaysyn]

...doesn't care if we are swearing. As long as we aren't swearing at each other in (too much) anger.

But it's normally the customer we're swearing about.

Farscape and Galactica are great for this

[CelticWhisper]

Now where the yotz did I put that frakking driver CD? I swear, if this FRELLING printer breaks down one more time, it's getting it right in the mivonks. Useless pile of dren, I knew we should have gone with the 4250.

Of course, it does have the downside of my coworkers looking at me like I'm insane, but then that really shouldn't come as news to anyone. If they haven't figured out that I'm magra-fahrbot by now, well, I can't be blamed.

Re:Farscape and Galactica are great for this

[Constantine XVI]

You forgot the rutting Firefly swear words, you gorram insensitive clod!

Re:Farscape and Galactica are great for this

[Mercano]

Scuppering Puzzle Pirates left me swearing like some barrelstopper pirate or a cheap trollop.

Re:Farscape and Galactica are great for this

[Rary]

It's not really a nerd culture kind of thing, but I always prefer the Johnny Dangerously brand of swearing.

"You fargin' icehole!"

"That corksucking sumnabatch!"

Re:Farscape and Galactica are great for this

[WeeLad]

I like the Orbit ad. "What the French, Toast?"

Re:Farscape and Galactica are great for this

[Anonymous Coward]

smeghead. :)

Hey Boss

[Anonymous Coward]

told you so... now go blow me, like I did your wife at the xmas party

~warning: certain words may be career limiting

For what it's worth...

[TofuMatt]

... since I was sixteen (my first job), swearing has been the norm in every workplace I've been in. I used to have a bit more of a polite mouth, at least when it came to profanity, before I started working.

Sounds like reasonable points though; the people I work with closely at my job are all people I don't filter my tongue around. My bosses, yes, but even so, they often swear.

Fuck yes

[slayermet420]

It's about motherfucking time the real world caught up with the fucking military.

Re:Fuck yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to go dumbass. Now we have to sleep in the office, and if they drill me one more time on workstation disassembly-reassembly, I swear I'm gonna bring down the entire network.

Re:Fuck yes

[AaxelB]

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

The word may have been shunned in print, but it continued in conversation, especially among soldiers during WWI.

"It became so common that an effective way for the soldier to express this emotion was to omit this word. Thus if a sergeant said, 'Get your ----ing rifles!' it was understood as a matter of routine. But if he said 'Get your rifles!' there was an immediate implication of urgency and danger."

Re:Fuck yes

[flappinbooger]

This is my workstation. There are many like it but this one is mine...

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/marine.html

Re:Fuck yes

[Stray7Xi]

The military is like most jobs, it's a matter of where you are and who you're around. Profanity is not appropriate in most situations, but really what that means is its okay as long as no one complains. Remember the military also has ideas of respect (for both superiors and subordinates) and professionalism. I've seen plenty of buildings that had signs "No profanity in area". In headquarters its expected not to use profanity because high ranking people around and it'd be disrespectful and unprofessional to talk that way around them.

Ultimately it works out to it being acceptable to curse around your work section and I think thats similar with most jobs, you don't curse when management is amongst the peons and you don't curse when you're in another department. That said its a common saying of how can you handle combat if you can't handle swearwords, which helps to reinforces swearing as acceptable despite the ridiculous amount of political correctness.

Welcome news

[Anonymous Coward]

It's about fucking time.

Good

[BlowHole666]

Good now I am going to go tell my boss to @#$% off and give me a raise!

Re:Good

[Farmer Tim]

I am going to go tell my boss to @#$% off

Can I watch? I've always wanted to know how @#$% is pronounced.

Re:Good

[Opportunist]

That's still a fuckin' raise for you, young man.

My office neighbor...

[Cornflake917]

My office neighbor gets scary when he is having trouble figuring something out on his computer. He swears and bangs the table and it makes me scared. I don't think his behavior is helping anyone :-(

Re:My office neighbor...

[elrous0]

And you wouldn't be creeped the fuck out if he suddenly became very quiet instead? Would you rather him stifle it and hold it all tightly in until one very tragic day?

Re:My office neighbor...

[Cornflake917]

He has a wife and two young daughters, I doubt he is going to go Seung-Hui Cho on us any time soon. There is a pretty clear difference between people with anger management issues, and suicidal psychopaths.

Re:My office neighbor...

[moeinvt]

Is that you Sandy?

Re:My office neighbor...

[Abcd1234]

He has a wife and two young daughters, I doubt he is going to go Seung-Hui Cho on us any time soon

ROFL, actually, I suspect that makes it all the more likely.

Meanwhile, if he ain't hurting you, why scared? Or are you just a pussy? :)

Re:My office neighbor...

[Anonymous Coward]

My office neighbor gets scary when he is having trouble figuring something out on his computer. He swears and bangs the table and it makes me scared. I don't think his behavior is helping anyone :-(

It's helping him. I'd also bet dollars to doughnuts that if he knew that it made you scared, he'd feel bad about it and he'd try to stifle it. He isn't doing it for any external effect.

Working through complicated technical crud just makes some people bang stuff in frustration sometimes - sometimes a lot depending on the person - but it's important to understand that, at least for many typical geeks I've known, it's an internal process thing, not any frustration with anyone else. At the end of the day, try asking "I heard you banging like hell on a problem - any luck?" and see what you get. The answer might very well put you at ease.

Re:My office neighbor...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh noes...someone called me a pussy on the internet! Funny you call me a pussy when you are the paranoid assuming someone will go postal just because they hold in the f-bomb every once in a while.

Re:My office neighbor...

[Anonymous Coward]

My office neighbor gets scary when he is having trouble figuring something out on his computer. He swears and bangs the table and it makes me scared. I don't think his behavior is helping anyone :-(

I'm banging on my computer and swearing because I'm unit-testing this PIECE OF SHIT code you checked in, YOU FUCKING MORON!

Re:My office neighbor...

[brkello]

So, you are saying that if you held in your cursing you would kill people? I think you should probably see a therapist.

There is a lot of ways to vent frustration. If you want to be a professional, you will do it in appropriate ways or do it in private. That is just how it works. Just because doing something negative has a positive result doesn't mean that it should be encouraged. For example, they could show that people who beat their children at home will be able to focus better and be more productive at work.

Instead of doing something negative, find a positive way to release stress. Step away from the computer and go get some coffee. Talk to a team member about the problem you are having and have them take a look at it while you explain it to them (I don't know how many times I figured out a problem doing this). Get a stress ball, do push ups, take a few minutes to stretch. There are a ton of positive things you could do that will be much more beneficial. It might cause some team members to work better together, but odds are you are alienating many as well.

Pathetic that obvious common sense can't be applied by "researchers".

Re:My office neighbor...

[Anonymous Coward]

Step away from the computer ....

Anyone who uses that "Step away' pussy locution should have their nuts kicked. Multiply and vigorously. What an asshole thing to say. I used to work with a couple of guys who, when asked on the phone for a co-worker who was not present (OK, away from their desk0 used to say, "I think she's out taking a dump" or "He's busy shaving his legs."

"... stepped away from his desk." gives me a truly stupid image of some pansy mincing away from the desk, like something in the Ministry of Silly Walks skit.

Re:My office neighbor...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sandy, Sandy Vagina?

Re:My office neighbor...

[brkello]

You have serious anger issues. Maybe you should step away from the computer.

You think?

[edunbar93]

I'm sure the discussion and tags on this story will be completely G Rated ;)

Oh fuck off!

Call me sad but..

[clickclickdrone]

Whilst in the right circumstances I can swear as much as the next person, at work and out in public, I don't like hearing it especially when people use it in every sentence without it even needing to be there. I have always considered really strong language to be the 11 on the amp - it's for when you need to get over the fact that something is really extreme i.e. big, massive, humungous, **ing huge.
Personally I'd find it stress inducing if I was surrounded by people swearing non stop all day. It has it's place and I'm happy with that but I don't want to hear it non stop, it demeans the person talking like that.
That said, I was sort of impressed by the moron chav who lived in the flat below mine once who managed a 16 word sentence which was all f**k or varients apart from 4 words and it made sense.

Re:Call me sad but..

[vertinox]

It has it's place and I'm happy with that but I don't want to hear it non stop, it demeans the person talking like that.

Maybe I listed to too many explicit lyrics or watched too many R rated movies, but when someone curses (but not at me) it doesn't bother me because the words themselves have no impact on me. I might be desensitized though.

Re:Call me sad but..

[Dexx]

The way I look at it is that if you swear all the time, what do you say in those situations where you really need to let loose?

Re:Call me sad but..

[gstoddart]

That said, I was sort of impressed by the moron chav who lived in the flat below mine once who managed a 16 word sentence which was all f**k or varients apart from 4 words and it made sense.

I need closure on that fscking anecdote. ;-)

Please, tell us what the sentence was. It sounds like one of the more masterful instances of stringing together the variants of f**k.

Cheers

Re:Call me sad but..

[SIIHP]

I think that using the occasional "fuck" or "shit" to color your language does nothing to alter the response to a good old fashioned melt down.

It's not just what you say, obviously, it's also how you say it.

Re:Call me sad but..

[Wilson_6500]

The way I look at it is that if you swear all the time, what do you say in those situations where you really need to let loose?

You say it louder.

Re:Call me sad but..

[svallarian]

Throw a chair like my buddy Steve B.

Re:Call me sad but..

[yuriismaster]

I'm not the parent poster, but I think it might have gone something like this:

Fuck the fucking fucked-up $noun for fucking fucking the fucking fucked fucks that fucking fucked the fucking $noun2. OK, 7 non-fucks (I dunno if I should could articles), but 10/17 ain't bad.

Re:Call me sad but..

[l0b0]

Aaaaargh?

Re:Call me sad but..

[clickclickdrone]

>I need closure
I'll fucking, fucking, fuck you you fucking fucking fucker - fucking, fuck off fucking fucker.
OK, that's 14 words but it was something like that anyway.

Re:Call me sad but..

[Anonymous Coward]

The way I look at it is that if you swear all the time, what do you say in those situations where you really need to let loose?

Pass me the shotgun ma.

Pah, noob

[mccalli]

Belgium, man. Just Belgium.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Pah, noob

[clickclickdrone]

:-) We got fed up with our 5yo going on about bottoms and farts all the time so we told him the one thing he must never say is the rudest word in the universe i.e. Belgium and now that's all he says.

Re:Pah, noob

[hey0you0guy]

Hippopotamus that!

Re:Pah, noob

[a1englishman]

That's my response to swearing in the workplace. I have quite a liberal tongue, but I don't really want to share in the workplace. I use a dictionary of fictional swear words from HHG and Red Dwarf. I've only been spotted by one RD fan thus far. It is effective, but I'm sure my coworkers think I'm a whack job.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[clickclickdrone]

>But comming from the UK, we tend to use "that's a bunch of turd burger" a lot
I think that's just you and your friends - I've never come across (fnarr) any of those phrases except Turd Burgerler used as slang for someone of the non-hetro persuasion.

Yeah, well

[NickCatal]

Somehow I don't feel like this allows you to say 'This place is filled with fucking idiots' every 5 seconds

But at least I can think it

Re:Yeah, well

[Das Modell]

I say that quite often when I'm playing multiplayer. Then I get kicked and/or banned because the vast majority of people who run game servers or forums are puritanical prudes who start crying if they hear someone swear. Fucking cunts, all of them.

Re:Yeah, well

[resignator]

If you want your teammates to perform like a clan then join a goddamn clan and play on their servers. How stupid do you have to be to hop on a public server and expect organization. People playing on public servers are there for their own fun NOT YOURS. Most dont even give a shit about the score...it's just some time to blow off steam and have fun. I repeatedly TK and kick asshats like you as soon as you step foot on my server. Want to bitch? I will give you something to bitch about.

Re:Yeah, well

[Das Modell]

I'm not expecting clan play, I'm expecting at least a minimal amount of standards. People don't have to make a team effort (it's a public server), but the least they could do is stay out of the way and not fuck things up for everyone else. You aren't just playing for your own fun on public servers, you're playing with other people. It sounds like you're the kind of player who ruins multiplayer games for shits and giggles.

Re:Yeah, well

[resignator]

If someone is in the way, TKing, etc they will eventually get kicked as well. That is FAR more tolerable than someone screaming over a mic at his team on a public server though. Your standards are far too high and/or you are far too worried about your score. Play nice and have fun. If you dont like the server just move on. "It sounds like you're the kind of player who ruins multiplayer games for shits and giggles." ...and from the sound of it I bet you are a very angry driver, you talk about your co-workers behind their backs, and typically set yourself above the rest of humanity.

Re:Yeah, well

[Das Modell]

If someone is in the way, TKing, etc they will eventually get kicked as well. That is FAR more tolerable than someone screaming over a mic at his team on a public server though.

Except, of course, that I don't use voice comm.

Your standards are far too high and/or you are far too worried about your score. Play nice and have fun.

High standards? At the very least I expect other players to not ruin the game for everyone else. That's entirely reasonable. And no, this has nothing to do with score.

...and from the sound of it I bet you are a very angry driver, you talk about your co-workers behind their backs, and typically set yourself above the rest of humanity.

You've already said that you TK people for fun and don't give a shit about other players.

In other words...

[InlawBiker]

People are happier at work if they can act like themselves. I'm sure it's not just me - over the last 10 years it's become more and more difficult to work in an office for fear of breaking HR rules. Humor, sex and profanity have been all but eliminated from some offices - what fun is that?? Greg.

Re:In other words...

[elrous0]

Try working in an area that is almost 50/50 black and white sometime. The racial tension is so thick you can cut it with a knife. You have to be careful of every single sentence you utter. Even the most innocuous remark can get you into serious trouble. It's to the point that, if you do a collage for a bulletin board and you don't have an equal mix of black/white and male/female pictures on the board, you can get into real trouble (I bullshit you not, this has actually happened before--and not just once).

It sucks because it puts me in an awkward position of having to find racially diverse photos for every publication (since I oversee most publication design). Anyone with any experience with stock photos knows that blacks are not exactly well represented, since they're harder to light than whites and are a small minority in most states. And having to do our own photos is expensive and a huge lighting nightmare (If you don't believe it, try lighting a photo with guy whose skin is coal black standing next to a guy who looks like he just stepped off the boat from Ireland sometime). And God help me if I don't parse every sentence in every publication carefully. Someone slips in the word "Niggardly" without me catching it, and I'm out the door.

Re:In other words...

[gsslay]

People are happier at work if they can act like themselves. And what if swearing is not themselves?

This benefits and reinforces solidarity only among those who are willing to join in with the swearing. I can't imagine it does much for those who get uncomfortable around constant cursing. So really a policy of "swearing's ok" is every bit as oppressive as one that says "not ok". Either way you're cramping someone's style. Which do you think is the lesser of the two evils?

Personally I'd go with the option that's least likely to offend those in and visiting the working environment.

Also consider that swearing, by its very nature, often revolves around phrases that can very easily be used, intentionally or not, as a form of sexual harassment. You read stories all the time of cases where a company has been taken to court over sexual discrimination, and their defence is "it was only office banter". But it's often the case that "office banter" is just the excuse used to disguise real harassment. That's why your HR dept doesn't like it.

Words

[MM_LONEWOLF]

So swearing is good for you? Personally, I believe that there is nothing wrong with swearing. What are swear words but various words that people are taught to take offense to? What does "shit" mean? Excrement. But why is one way to express a bodily function more offensive that another word that means the same thing. Same story with "fuck" and "intercourse." But really, I'm just waiting for someone at a high school somewhere to sue for the right to swear at school.

Re:Words

[trongey]

I've wondered for a long time why some words are supposedly bad while other words that mean exactly the same thing are OK.
On the other hand, I suspect that a lot of people would be really mad if their ability to say words they're not supposed to say suddenly ceased to exist.

Re:Words

[Farmer Tim]

What are swear words but various words that people are taught to take offense to?

And here's how they learn.

Re:Words

[Farmer Tim]

Well, I certainly fucked that up.

Re:Words

[moeinvt]

"What are swear words but various words that people are taught to take offense to?"

+5 Insightful

Curse words, heresy, blasphemy, political correctness, etc. All arbitrary societal bullshit. Seems like certain people just aren't happy unless they have something to be offended about and they keep dreaming up new things to fulfill their needs.

Re:Words

[MM_LONEWOLF]

I know what to do about it. SUE THE BASTARDS!!!

maybe initially

[Floritard]

Wouldn't it lose it's luster if everyone were swearing all the time? I'm all for the unrestricted use of language everywhere, I think it's childish not to be, but wouldn't any positive side effects be related to the fact that being allowed to swear at work is unusual and kind of a privilege? Of course, once everyone got completely used to swearing, we'd all be better off anyway IMH fucking O.

Re:maybe initially

[aztektum]

Kind of like "I love you"? I mean that shit gets old quick.

Re:maybe initially

[Floritard]

I dunno if you were being sarcastic or not, but yes, just like that. I always try to use that phrase sparingly and with genuine feeling. It shouldn't just be an accessory or substitute for "goodbye."

Unfair!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that label on the link to the article is totally unfair!

I may not have read the article itself.

                                                  Will.

super bowl

[Aeron65432]

Reminds me of my favorite superbowl commercial, I don't know how many times this got passed around the office.

Re:super bowl

[spikedvodka]

No mod points in my jar... but "Fuckin' Awesome"

and yes, we've got a swear jar going here, not for for "Wattered down horsepiss" ^W^W^W Bud Light, but rather a bottle of good tequilla

Re:super bowl

[Anonymous Coward]

You took our goddamn 'swear jar' and fucking wasted it on a fucking case of Bud Light?

That's shit's worse then watered down horse piss. You're so fucking fired, asshole!

Re:super bowl

[stefanlasiewski]

but rather a bottle of good tequilla

Isn't that a self perpetuating swear jar.

Swear -> Swear Jar -> tequilla -> Margaritas -> Swear -> Swear Jar -> tequilla -> Margaritas

Re:super bowl

[spikedvodka]

isn't that the point?

mod parent down - RTFsummary

[kieran]

TFA about the difference between places that premit swearing and those that don't. Obviously. It's hardly "letting workers swear at will" if you fire them for it.

Mods on crack again?

[wanderingknight]

How can this be flamebait considering the fucking topic?

Long time coming

[MobyDisk]

Forcing people to behave artificially causes people to not be able to bond and communicate.

This rather obvious realization has been surfacing over the past few decades. 20 years ago professionals were expected to wear suits and ties to work. Today, most employers I've worked for only require that of sales people, or on certain ocassions. The average employee can wear jeans, at in their cube, swear, and scratch their butt. I think this leads to a more relaxed and more productive work environment.

Interestingly though, in the 80's, it was socially acceptable to have a drink during lunch. Now it is taboo to drink during work hours at all.

Re:Long time coming

[DerekLyons]

Forcing people to behave artificially causes people to not be able to bond and communicate.
 
This rather obvious realization has been surfacing over the past few decades. 20 years ago professionals were expected to wear suits and ties to work. Today, most employers I've worked for only require that of sales people, or on certain ocassions. The average employee can wear jeans, at in their cube, swear, and scratch their butt.

A nice superficial analysis - but as a counterpoint, I offer the US military. Service members communicate and bond, even without combat service, despite being restricted in dress, and hours, and behavior, and a dozen other ways that would your average individual begging to be returned to his safe and comfortable cubicle. I've also seen and read about teams from the blue suit corporate world deeply bonded.
 
Or, in short... your conclusion does not follow from your thesis.

Re:Long time coming

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly though, in the 80's, it was socially acceptable to have a drink during lunch. Now it is taboo to drink during work hours at all. WTF? A drink at lunch is quite acceptable here. Canada. Vancouver. And I know my colleagues in the UK and Germany are pretty loose about that also.

Is this an American taboo? I suppose in states that allow concealed carry, it might be good policy.

Re:Long time coming

[iminplaya]

...in the 80's, it was socially acceptable to have a drink during lunch.

Believe me, the three martini lunch goes way back before the 80s. Why, there was a time not too long ago you could light up a cigarette at the table. If you want to know what causes all the stress, it's the smoking prohibitions, and now the addiction is being fed by soda pop and coffee with all their sugar and caffeine. No wonder everybody's bouncing off the walls. Somebody needs to invent a good tasting nicotine drink. Personally, I think an LSD dispenser in the lunchroom would do wonders.

Re:Long time coming

[gangien]

I don't think it's an american taboo, we drink beer at work every friday (paid by my company even) and sometimes even scotch or liquor. I live near Seattle.

Re:Long time coming

[808140]

On the other hand, they do swear.

Re:Long time coming

[DerekLyons]

Like a sailor.

(OK, that was obvious. But as a former submariner I could not resist.)

Re:Long time coming

[magical_mystery_meat]

Interestingly though, in the 80's, it was socially acceptable to have a drink during lunch. Now it is taboo to drink during work hours at all.

Stems from liability issues (employee has a beer or three at lunch, comes back, deletes the database, the company gets sued and loses because they have drunks on the clock..)

Re:Long time coming

[h4ck7h3p14n37]

Interestingly though, in the 80's, it was socially acceptable to have a drink during lunch. Now it is taboo to drink during work hours at all.

I think this depends on whom you're working with. I have a beer or glass of wine with my lunch and dinner most days and I don't hesitate to have my usual meal even if I'm out with people from the office. It's my lunch break and I don't show up to work intoxicated, so I figure it's none of their damn business if I have an iced tea or a glass of merlot just as it's none of their business if I have a hamburger versus some chicken, or maybe skip lunch entirely to go home and fool around with my girlfriend.

I think the underlying problem is that some people don't appreciate the taste of alcoholic drinks and assume that everyone drinks for the sole reason of becoming intoxicated.

dude...

[DigitalSorceress]

Who the F*** lets pays these asshats to come up with such useless drivel. It makes me wanna $*&*#*# swear. Oh, nevermind, I feel better now.

In other news: breathing makes you live.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[ajs318]

I always refer to them as "Murder King".

Re:It is called FUBAR

[CyberLord Seven]

For those that don't know.

FUBAR

Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition. I think this is a phrase that originated in the military during WWII (The Great Patriotic War, to the Soviets). SNAFU

Situation Normal, All Fucked Up. I think this one originated in the military around the time of the Korean War or Vietnam.

Don't overdo it.

[MaWeiTao]

I think the occasional swear is perfectly fine. It doesn't bother me in the least and I've sworn myself more times than I can count. However, I also think there are many situations where it's inappropriate. I wouldn't do it in front of a client, for example.

I do believe it can be cathartic. But from personal experience once swearing gets abused, let's say when under stress, it also seems to aggravate the frustration. It's like stewing in anger.

And it's too easy for this to be turned into a habit. The last thing I need is to have every second word spoken by fuck or shit. Like it or not it makes a person seem immature and uncultured when swearing is abused.

Wish I could say not me...

[Interested Bystander]

Wish I could say I don't, but my truth switch is stuck 1 and won't let me toggle to 0. I do not think it helps lower stress and I have seen it get someone a diversity class refresher. Maybe it is like salt (a little helps and too much raises your blood pressure).

Better at work...

[The G]

I'm glad that swearing at work is good for you, because swearing at home is illegal.

Brits have known this for ages

[mihalis]

I grew up in Britain but now work in America. When I figure I can get away with it, and when the situation calls for it, I sometimes let loose with a well-timed swear word. I can sense that my fully american colleagues are always a little bit shocked, however I also feel it REALLY gets their attention, and thus can be a good thing.

For example, I told my (then current) boss that the interference from her (then) boss had gotten completely out of hand. The way I phrased it was "I have nearly gotten to the point of just telling him to fuck off". That would be such a flagrant breach of protocol that I'm glad I didn't, however just /mentioning/ the word made the situation crystal clear (mention as oppose to use - it was hypothetical swearing).

In fact, work is almost the last frontier where swearing is still effective, and so it's the only place where's really still worthwhile. I suppose if I swore at customer support from some vendor it would also have an effect, but I have too much sympathy for what those people put up with.

Out on the street, or on public transport, however, swearing is just like noise on the signal. Any ten-year old kid can be overheard using "fuck, shit, motherfucker". One of the few words that still has some kick to it, for some reason, is "cunt". I think the most memorable usage was still in the Bridget Jones movie...

Re:Brits have known this for ages

[Anonymous Coward]

>> One of the few words that still has some kick to it, for some reason, is "cunt".

The "some reason" is the fact that the oh-so-liberal-PC-police don't like this one, since one of their mantras is kissing the feminists' butts all day long, this is preciously "offensive", the same way the n-word is. But, feel free to offend conservatives and religious people all day long, that's just fine.

(To clarify, the N-word IS offensive, but the C-word is not in the same league.)

Re:Brits have known this for ages

[Anonymous Coward]

You could always use "bollocks" here in America and absolutely no one would know what you're saying or understand it. If fact, i don't even know if I'm even using it in the correct context...

Re:Brits have known this for ages

[mihalis]

You could always use "bollocks" here in America and absolutely no one would know what you're saying or understand it. If fact, i don't even know if I'm even using it in the correct context...

Yep, I still use that from time to time. It's too good a word to give up just because people don't understand it here!

Obligatory bash.org Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

<Gerard> Damn bitch fuck damn.
<Tom> PG-13 Gerard
<Gerard> Dang gosh golly dang

(http://bash.org/?230424)

Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[rbanzai]

I once worked at police department, a very swear-friendly environment. I wound up swearing ALL the time, including around my family. I had to work hard to break this new habit. In the jobs that followed (outside of emergency services) it was obvious that people who swore alot not only seemed unprofessional they appeared to be poor communicators that could not express themselves without obscenities.

It's not a prohibition on swearing that's keeping people from expressing themselves at work; it's restrictive environments created by management where one doesn't express oneself out of fear of retaliation.

I enjoy swearing when it's the right time, but work is not the place for it, and swearing is not a workplace communication enhancer; it's a tool of anger, frustration and an inability to express one's full feeling on a subject.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[Cro Magnon]

Agreed! One time at work, my boss announced the latest stupid rule from his bosses. I just said that that was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard. I didn't need to throw in any "F" words or "S" words. (BTW, my boss agreed with me but avoided actually saying so)

OTOH, I swear at my home computer frequently.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[skelly33]

I think yours is a perfect account of recognition for what may generally be perceived as poor intelligence and/or blatant disrespect on the part of the potty mouth. I swear all the time too: at home, in the office, to friends, to family, you name it. It's become ingrained in me and I'm struggling to root it out. Communication and expression are considered by many to be and art form and a flood of vulgarities just don't come off as terribly artful. Profanity is prolific right down to the lowest common denominator on the social scale; willful participation among those with more respected social standing debases them.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[kryptkpr]

I enjoy swearing when it's the right time, but work is not the place for it, and swearing is not a workplace communication enhancer; it's a tool of anger, frustration and an inability to express one's full feeling on a subject.

There is no right or wrong place to swear, but there IS a right or wrong time. Ever been angry or frustrated or unable to express a feeling on a subject, at work?

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[SIIHP]

"and swearing is not a workplace communication enhancer; it's a tool of anger, frustration and an inability to express one's full feeling on a subject."

With all due respect, and no anger at all, people like you who say this are fucking idiots.

Which, all kidding aside, is my full feeling on the subject.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[Travelsonic]

IMo, profanity and intellect is an ignorant correlation that may have some basis, but is very liited in truthfullness.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[rbanzai]

Then can you explain why you feel that way? Maybe without calling me a fucking idiot? And what does "people like you" mean? I'm curious about the assumptions you made about me.

Do you really believe that swearing enhances workplace communication? If so, how? You can't express anger or frustration without it?

Like I said, there are times when swearing seems to be appropriate. For a typical office environment I think those times are extremely limited and the more often I hear swearing in that setting the more inclined I am to question the swearer's professionalism and communication skills.

Swearing is a language tool. Used skillfully it has a place in the world. Used constantly and in place of real content words it limits communication, increases people's hostility level and takes away from a professional atmosphere.

P.S. I don't think you're a "fucking idiot" but if you made your statement during a staff meeting I would definitely wonder about your ability to conduct yourself professionally.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[SIIHP]

"Then can you explain why you feel that way?"

Of course.

"Maybe without calling me a fucking idiot?"

Easily.

"I don't think you're a "fucking idiot" but if you made your statement during a staff meeting I would definitely wonder about your ability to conduct yourself professionally."

And that illustrates my point in a nutshell.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[rk]

"an inability to express one's full feeling on a subject."

Only too true. When I cuss about (or at) something, it's because expressing my full feeling on that subject would typically involve the indiscriminate use of violence. I think I'll stick to swearing.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[rbanzai]

Your combination of smugness, hostility and an inability to express yourself leaves me with no way to continue. I'm sorry you feel the need to try and insult me.

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[rbanzai]

Heh. I just looked at your most recent posts and see they are all rated at 1. Reading closer I see that you're a troll. I'm glad I didn't spend much time trying to explore your point of view: you don't have one! :D

Re:Idiotic and out of touch with the real world

[SIIHP]

Look again, you're wrong about all of that.

As to my inability to express myself, perhaps it's actually YOUR inability to comprehend my message.

"I'm glad I didn't spend much time trying to explore your point of view: you don't have one! :D"

Not so, my fine douchebag, "YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT" Is indeed a point, so you're wrong again.

Now, because you're stupid and I want to prove it again, what function of "professionalism" requires an abstinence from profanity? Oh, there isn't one.

See now? You ARE a fucking idiot, you just hate that I showed it.

HEY!

[El Puerco Loco]

Watch your fucking language!

TFA misses the point.

[SatanicPuppy]

It's not about the profanity, it's about the freedom to express your opinion without a ton of self-censoring. If you're working in a situation where you're going to get fired for swearing in a meeting, regardless of how frustrated you are, that's going to affect your performance and it's going to add a lot of stress, because you're going to be forever worrying about what you say to whom.

I used to have a mostly-female chain of command, and it was more difficult. Had a boss who decided I was a morale problem because I was willing to say what the whole department was thinking. Got called into the HR director's office once because I snapped at a co-worker in her earshot; no profanity mind you, just frustration. Not to say that there's anything wrong with women, but you can't cut loose on a female in a corporate environment without repercussions.

In contrast I absolutely lost my shit in front of my current boss (who is a corporate VP) over a complete snafu that I'd seen coming, and warned all the responsible people about and planned against, and goddamn it if they didn't do the ONE THING, THE ONE GODDAMN THING I TOLD THEM TO NEVER DO, and he let me run down, slapped me on the back, and said, "Done is done, let's get it fixed" and we went on from there.

Just nice to be in a situation where you can express your feelings, and sometimes there is a lot of profanity-inducing anger there, and not have to worry about your job. I'm pretty low key; I can keep it bottled up if I have to, but it makes for a less pleasant environment.

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Sierpinski]

That's why I see no place for women in business. They aren't the most rational beings either...

Yes, I'll probably get "modded down" as a sexist troll, but this is the truth, plain and simple. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I'd say 75% of women act irrationally 99% of the time.

You, sir, are an inspiration to all guys. Having met three-quarters of the women on the planet, and having gotten to know them so well that you know they are almost always irrational, that gives hope to the common man.

Just remember though, 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Actually, I do RTFA]

You, sir, are an inspiration to all guys. Having met three-quarters of the women on the planet, and having gotten to know them so well that you know they are almost always irrational, that gives hope to the common man.

Just remember though, 47.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Sir, if you are going to mock his statistics, then at least do so properly. Obviously, 75% is an extrapolation from whatever sample he has. If he had met 75% of the world's women, and all the women he knew acted irrational 99% the time, the proper way to say it would be that 100% of women act irrationally 99% of the time.

However, based on GP's post, I find it amazing that the women around him are only aggrivated to irrationality by him 99% of the time. I assume that 25% of the women in his life are female relatives obliged to put up with him.

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I'll probably get "modded down" as a sexist troll

No shit?!

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Sierpinski]

I wasn't going to reply to this really useless thread (original was meant more of a joke than a mockery, but whatever), but I did feel the need to point out your mistake as well. He clearly wrote '75% of women'. If he had said '75% of women I met' it would have been a clearly legitimate statistic. You assume that he "meant" the women he met, yet I have to say, you just don't know, do you? "100% of women" is ALL women. "100% of women I have met" is a different story. If you're going to criticize, at least have a general idea of what a described sample size is.

"Obviously, 75% is an extrapolation from whatever sample he has." -- Show me proof of that, and you'll win the argument. You can base your argument off fact, or you can base your argument off assumptions. I did the former, you did the latter.

If clarifying/attacking/etc such little details are of that much importance to you, happy hunting with your grammar/stat/spelling nazi friends. I've gotten today's chuckle out of your ignorance, so I can continue with my productive day. I think this horse is sufficiently dead, and its just about time to go home, so flame away, I probably won't read the rest of it anyway. :-)

Re:TFA misses the point.

[KylePflug]

Aaaand now, a lesson in Latin!

He clearly wrote '75% of women'. If he had said '75% of women I met' it would have been a clearly legitimate statistic. You assume that he "meant" the women he met, yet I have to say, you just don't know, do you? "100% of women" is ALL women. "100% of women I have met" is a different story. If you're going to criticize, at least have a general idea of what a described sample size is.

% = percent = per centus = per/out of 100

This Is Just To Say: '75% of women' literally means 75 out of 100 women. Which is itself a sample. It is intrinsic to his statement that what he is talking about is a sample that is meant (or supposed) to be representative.

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

You bastard! If I wasn't on my period, I'd slap you instead of crying while I type this. Just wait til PMS Week arrives. You do know *I'm* the one who processes your paycheck? You remind me of my ex-boyfriend. The one who used to insult me before we had degrading sex in the basement. God, men are such jerks. I'll never let one buy dinner for me again. Ooops. I broke a nail typing! Anhhh-h-h-h. (Crying)

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I used to have a mostly-female chain of command, and it was more difficult. Had a boss who decided I was a morale problem because I was willing to say what the whole department was thinking."

Cunt.

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll probably get "modded down" as a sexist troll

Yes, but only because there's no "-1, Stupid Cunt" moderation option

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Sierpinski]

% = percent = per centus = per/out of 100

This Is Just To Say: '75% of women' literally means 75 out of 100 women. Which is itself a sample. It is intrinsic to his statement that what he is talking about is a sample that is meant (or supposed) to be representative.

Sorry, wrong again. While it literally means 75 out of 100 women, the standard accepted notion (and I bet this has been true for multiple decades) that it really means '75 out of every 100 women'. If you are referring to a sample size of 100, 75 percent of women would be 75, each woman accounting for 1% of your sample size. Now I guess if that's true then he must only KNOW exactly 100 women. I'd bet that is not true, so please continue with the argument. It's still entertaining.

You can't expect someone to assume a sample size based on a simple percentage, that is just ridiculous and no mathematician or scientist would ever do it. Just because someone says something like "17% of adult Americans can't read", do you think that there are only 100 Americans and 17 of them can't read? Apparently your statement above leads to the answer "yes".

Re:TFA misses the point.

[KylePflug]

Hunt around my post a little bit and let me know when you find where I implied his statement contained a sample size.

Bingo, I didn't. What I said is that his statement implies that what he is talking about is a sample. The statement "75 out of every 100 women" does not imply that, say, there are 4 billion women in the world and three billion were counted. It implies that a sample, hypothesized to be generalizable to a larger population, was found to have 3/4 of its members meet x criteria.

Any statistic that ever appears in communication research is based on a sample. Any percentage is derived from a sample. It's not exactly a leap to say that if someone present an anecdote with a percentage, they are merely doing what scientists do and extrapolating to larger populations from a relatively small sample.

Re:TFA misses the point.

[Sierpinski]

The statement "75 out of every 100 women" does not imply that, say, there are 4 billion women in the world and three billion were counted.

Actually it does. Watch Family Feud. They don't say that 37% of people gorge themselves on turkey on Thanksgiving. They say "Out of 100 people surveyed... 37% gorge themselves..."

Per cent, as was mentioned, is per 100. If you want to make an assumption that "per 100" has ANYTHING to do with sample size, that's just ignorant. Assuming that a statement contains a generalized sample is also an assumption. If I say '57% of women have long hair', what can you possibly infer to be a generalized sample? How can you possibly know what the author's actual sample size is? Assuming that any statistic is a generalized sample without it beign explicitly defined is just that, an assumption.

Now, this argument alone will win this debate, I'm sure of it:

Chewbacca is a Wookie from the planet Kashyyyk, but he lives on Endor. Now that does not make sense. Why would a 6 foot tall wookie live on a planet with a bunch of 3 foot tall Ewoks. If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!

Working in the Navy

[Protonk]

One of the best parts of being a sailor was, well...swearing like a sailor. But in the time that I was in, the powers that be decided that it wasn't in the best interest of the navy to have sailors acting like...well, sailors. So no carousing, smoking, swearing, etc. Swearing "wasn't professional" and it didn't reflect the best interests of the Navy. I've even seen a swear jar implemented. No joke.

And this was on a submarine. No women. Limited cases of sexual harassment.

Fuck that. You could always tell the fools in the Chief's quarters (think mid level management) by how well they hewed to these rules. If they smoked, drank and swore, they were usually good guys. If they were teetotaling pricks, then they were not to be trusted. This, more than almost any other metric, helped to determine good bosses from bad for us.

Re:Working in the Navy

[AsnFkr]

And this was on a submarine. No women. Limited cases of sexual harassment.

No women? Limited sexual harassment? As opposed to none? I suppose all the jokes about you Navy guys are true to some extent...

Re:Working in the Navy

[dr bacardi]

It's not gay if it's underway was the rule I heard ;)

Re:Working in the Navy

[Anonymous Coward]

From a submarine officer I work with:

An Officer of the Deck ordered no swearing in the control room during his watch. Sailors marched around the adjacent compartments swearing, loudly and inventively. He could order them off one at a time, but there were enough sailors to keep it going indefinitely.

Re:Working in the Navy

[BlindRobin]

I've even seen a swear jar implemented. No joke

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot ?

Re:Working in the Navy

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's not gay if the balls don't touch" was the way I always heard it.

Re:Working in the Navy

[Sponge Bath]

[Comic operetta music]

Stewie: "I'm the greatest captain of the Queen's navy."
Sailors: "And your record will stand as proof."
Stewie: "Be it galley or a freighter, I'm an expert navigator."
Sailors: "And you're also a world-class poof."
Stewie: "My manner, quite effete, is mistaken on the street. For a sailor who can pirouette on cue. Well, despite your point of view, I can thrill a girl or two... But I'd rather get it on with you."

Re:Working in the Navy

[skulgnome]

Well, if the balls ain't touching...

Re:Working in the Navy

[DerekLyons]

Lordy - I'm glad I saw the 'boy scout Navy' coming and got the hell out of Dodge when offered the chance.
 
I'll never forget the time I had screwed up in some way or another, bad enough to require Official Attention for high up but not bad enough to end up across the green table. For half an hour the XO went at me using four letter words only as attention getters and point makers while he discussed my shortcomings mental and physical, the poor quality of my ancestry and upbringing, and the chances of me retaining my fish, my rate, and that 2nd Class stripe if I ever ended up before him again. (I didn't.)

Re:Working in the Navy

[Bluesman]

That's mostly just on subs, where 100 men go down, and 50 couples come up.

profanity: sex, excrement and religion

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there other topics that profanity based other than
sex, excrement, and religion?

What is the common theme?

Re:profanity: sex, excrement and religion

[Dunbal]

Wait wait you forgot about insulting immediate relatives and casting doubts on the legitimacy of someone's birth...

Re:profanity: sex, excrement and religion

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget race and sexuality you nigger faggot.

Seemed to work...

[Deadstick]

...for a former coworker of mine. He had previously worked as a tech rep aboard an aircraft carrier, and the Navy made him leave because the sailors were picking up his language. His health was always just fine.

rj

Swearing

[Dunbal]

Fine, just make sure you don't fucking do it in Pennsylvania or you may end up in jail.

I disagree

[MikeRT]

Does it really add anything to call someone a G-D fucking moron instead of just calling them a worthless moron when they are wrecking havoc on you and your team? Personally, I don't think so. In fact, I think it can show a great deal of control over yourself that will make others look up to you at least a little as a leader in a tough environment when you aren't cussing, but others (especially managers) are cussing like sailors. I've had a manager like that before, where we'd be discussing a product or an initiative casually, and his end would be filled with profanity. Personally, it made me feel uncomfortable to have a manager who felt so free in a business environment to let it all hang out because it made me wonder how seriously things in general. I say that as someone who doesn't feel it's his place to stop others from cussing, preferring to just set a different example.

Thank fuck for that! n/t

[Nuitari The Wiz]

n/t

I must be sheltered

[ucblockhead]

I don't think I've ever worked for a company that discouraged profanity. One place I worked a decade back, the installation of a new cluster was routinely referred to as "the clusterfuck project".

Nope.

[SatanicPuppy]

There is a difference between using profanity at your customers, be they students or whatever, and using profanity among your co-workers.

Throwing down on your customers is never good. That's your job so when you start doing profanity, you're screwing up your job performance, and you deserve to be fired...unless you're in a job where the customers expect profanity (comedian, whore, phone support).

Being able to walk into the kitchen, or the breakroom, or whatever, and say, "Goddamn motherfucking asspirates should choke on a cock and die die die!" and not be fired, is therapeutic.

Re:Nope.

[Anonymous Coward]

My father was a pirate, liked anal sex with my mother, and choked on some coq au vin you insensitive clod.

Re:Nope.

[jra]

On the other hand, there are times when telling the customer "you go to hell" is justified: customers shouldn't be abusing your and your cow-orkers; you don't get paid to take that kind of abuse: that's Agnew's area.

Of course, you have to consider that you may be firing the client.

Re:Nope.

[RobertLTux]

theres a difference between telling a customer to GO TO HELL and then giving them instructions
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=hell&sll=37.0625,-95.677068
&sspn=57.510723,112.5&ie=UTF8&ll=42.436095,-83.985822&spn=0.006635,0.013733&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1

HTH HAND

Forever War

[Diakoneo]

Reminds me of Joe Haldeman's The Forever War. They made the soldiers swear at the drill sergeants thinking it would improve moral. It just became lame to them after a short while...

Re:Forever War

[kalirion]

Yup, that's what immediately popped into my head when I read the headline.

FUCK YOU, SIR!

Military Tradition

[_Sprocket_]

The study found regular use of profanity to express and reinforce solidarity among staff, enabling them to express their feelings, such as frustration, and develop social relationships, according to researchers at the University of East Anglia (UES).

Sounds very much like camaraderie and morale; old military standbys. Perhaps there is a good reason swearing seems to be ingrained in military culture.

Just be sure the customer is on hold...

[mmullings]

We recently had a CSR that was having a bad morning.
When she finally blew up with something to the effect of 'damn stupid fucking idiots', the customer on the phone asked her if she could put her on hold first before verbally assaulting her.
She was red faced once she realized that the hold light was off.
Only a couple of hours went by, then she got her walking papers.

It's not about rewards.

[SatanicPuppy]

It's about the office environment. If everyone is happy, and the bosses aren't sadists, then you don't get as much swearing. I swear when I get angry or frustrated, not when I'm hopping around, having a good day, feeling good about myself, etc.

Profanity doesn't make for a bad environment; bad environments make for profanity. And a bad environment that stifles profanity is a terrible environment.

Re:It's not about rewards.

[Anonymous Coward]

except that's the opposite of what the study found!

Yikes. Bad Idea.

[strick1226]

Uhm... I call BS on this.

Seriously, though... how could it possibly help matters?

The majority of jobs I've had in which the employees cursed incessantly were not necessarily more productive. In fact, having an angry boss is one thing--a __cursing__, angry boss is something else altogether.

Moreover, while I can understand this would make most women uncomfortable in the workplace, I can also vouch for my experience in offices staffed predominantly by females--it's very uncomfortable for the few men, at that point.

The whole thing reeks of unprofessionalism, in my opinion. I can understand the occasional pained and shouted curse in relatively unpopulated areas, such as server farms etc.--but I certainly wouldn't encourage my employees to use profanities as much as they feel like it--I see a lot of possible lost sale calls etc.

All in all, I suppose a lot of it comes down to the context of the situation--but it just sounds like a bad business strategy for HR to adopt.

fat bastard alert ...

[rs232]

"regular use of profanity .. among staff, enabling them to express their feelings .. and develop social relationships"

You mean now the workers can swear back at the managers, as distinct to being swore at. If so then why is it that when I called my 'team leader' a fat bastard, he got me fired. It was like this, I was on the call desk and he happened to cross my field of vision and I sub-vocalized the expletive. Those headphone mikes are so soo sensitive and besides he shouldn't have been listening in on my calls anyhow.

The danger with using profanity is you can't just switch it off in front of the customers, as a French/Algerian receptionist in a Hotel once put it when addressing me, ' you stupid fucking (insert nationality) bastard ' .., yes taco I mean you .. ;).

You see it was something she picked up in the back office whenever I was referred to. That was also about the time they used to send me on racial sensitivity courses :)

The only use profanity can be put to, is in places like the army, where it is used in the breakdown of recruits in furtherance of turning them into complaint automatons. It's verbally directed agression and that's all. Whether directed at you or you have to listen to it all day. I wonder does professor Baruch have any experience in the real world ... the kvetch ...

Will MS add...

[Anonymous Coward]

some sort of Windows service pack/feature with Swearing enabled? okay... not on "home edition" but for "Professional versions".

Such as:
Start > Shut down

"Why the f**k do you want to shut me down?" okay, just day dreaming.

I have a few words in response:

[Jaxoreth]

shit piss cunt fuck cocksucker motherfucker tits

Red Storm Rising

[MalleusEBHC]

One of my favorite snippets from Red Storm Rising..

"Let's have an attitude check!"
"I hate this fucking place!"

"Let's have a positive attitude check!"
"I positively hate this fucking place!"

"Let's have a negative attitude check!"
"I can't stand this fucking place!"

"Let's have a short attitude check!"
"Fuck it!"

Another thing

[suv4x4]

I found that wrecking stuff is a very good way to relieve stress.

Furthermore, I always thought of punching a client in the face, or nuts, and I think being allowed to do that would definitely help my stress, and the solidarity among me and the rest of the employees.

Re:Another thing

[neo-mkrey]

"PC Load Letter? What the fuck does that mean?"

Stupid @!@#%!#

[Anonymous Coward]

That is the dumbest !@#!@$& thing I have ever heard!

Uh no.

[SatanicPuppy]

I'm sorry you got that from my comment.

My only problem with working with females is in this particular context; if I say something off the cuff, in frustration, they'll view it as more significant than a guy would.

This is because they are, in many ways, better at communication than a guy would be, and more sensitive to nuance.

So you've got to watch what you say, because they pay attention, and they'll think about it more. A guy just hears, "wawawawa" noises contexted with a tone of voice. A female will hear what you actually say, and then think about it, then try to reconcile it with your subsequent and prior actions.

This is just a generalization. Lots of guys behave in what I'm representing as the "female" mode, and there are a lot of women who pay as little or less attention to what you're saying as a guy would.

Re:Uh no.

[Pfhorrest]

A guy just hears, "wawawawa" noises contexted with a tone of voice. A female will hear what you actually say, and then think about it, then try to reconcile it with your subsequent and prior actions.

This is just a generalization. Lots of guys behave in what I'm representing as the "female" mode, and there are a lot of women who pay as little or less attention to what you're saying as a guy would. Funny, in my experience it's exactly the opposite. Men listen to the actual words you say and take them at face value; women listen to your tone of voice and hear what they think you mean based on how you seem to feel, rather than what you literally say.

That too of course is a generalization, but it just goes to show, generalizations are like shits... anyone can make one and they usually stink.

Re:Uh no.

[Aladrin]

If they're so much better at communication, why are they reading nuances where they don't exist? I don't buy that for a minute.

No, instead, women have been taught to be dainty, and men have been taunt to treat them as such and not to use 'foul' words in front of them. They make more of it because there's a social taboo involved that is being broken. It has nothing to do with which sex communicates better.

Re:Uh no.

[archen]

Yeah, I think I'd go with you on that one. The hidden danger with women is the fact that the way a woman interprets things can vary in extremes. Generally most men I've worked with from the nicest smartest guy you'll ever know to the most idiotic asshole you'll ever meet are still going to end up getting the same message with the same words. With a woman? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes something totally way off in left field. In this way it seems that women are FAR more sensitive to their work environment in that a hostile environment can degenerate into rabid backstabbing, while in a more friendly open environment things seem to be just fine.

Re:Uh no.

[elrous0]

The harsh, politically-incorrect reality is that women are used to being indulged and sucked-up to. They get free drinks at bars and free meals on dates, men buy them jewelry/cars/houses, men tell them that they're great/not-fat/gorgeous, and they never lose an argument because their boyfriend/husband/daddy/guy-hitting-on-them always caves and agrees with them. So when they enter the workplace with other men, they expect the same treatment. When they don't get it, they raise Hell. It presents a real problem and makes many men very uncomfortable working around them.

Re:Uh no.

[NeilTheStupidHead]

The real trick is to find a job alongside a bunch of nice, retired grandmothers. If you're pleasant and polite to them, they give you cookies and talk you up to any attractive young ladies that come into the shop! :P

Re:Uh no.

[elrous0]

On one hand, I'm sad that I got modded down. But I guess I should at least be encouraged that there is at least ONE girl on /. (and with mod points, no less).

Swearing may bring a group together but...

[Anonymous Coward]

If solidarity can be built around shared emotional experience and being intimate and transparent with each other, than perhaps swearing does that to a degree.

In some weird sense, swearing around others probably involves letting your guard down, and accepting each other at a deeper level.

I don't think that means that swearing is the best way to bring about these things. To me, that's like saying that because a death in a family can bring a family together, that we need more deaths to do that.

I think that while swearing may bring some people who don't know each other a little closer together for the reasons I mentioned above, the nature of swearing simply doesn't lead towards a truly happy, contented environment where people are building each other up.

It just makes for an effective dysfunctional family.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[Anonymous Coward]

But comming from the UK, we tend to use "that's a bunch of turd burger" a lot

Now my spelling is pretty bad, but what really gets me is the number of people that cannot spell coming correctly

Not in Deadwood

[albyselkie]

I'm not sure that the constant stream of c**ks**k**r ever becomes less startling even when used as punctuation. Of course, maybe the life of a cube vole isn't quite as death-defying as that of a miner, bull driver, or pimp.

Re:Not in Deadwood

[Matt Edd]

Goddamn it. I've been reading this wonderful fucking thread about cussing and I am mother-fucking annoyed by the number of people who feel they have to censor themselves here. Cocksucker, cocksucker, cocksucker! Shit or get off the pot.

As my pappy says...

[mollog]

As my pappy says,

Profanity is the linguistic crutch of a fucking ignoramus.

Damn right!

Re:As my pappy says...

[OverlordsShadow]

Finally we workers now have ammunition against those who say its not business-like or proper to swear in a workplace like an office and such. Hell fucking ya!

Re:As my pappy says...

[Travelsonic]

As my friend once says, ignorance is as ignorance does.

Re:As my pappy says...

[paeanblack]

Profanity is the linguistic crutch of a fucking ignoramus.

Profanity is simply a communications tool used to convey emotion directly instead of relying upon the receiver to interpret the words in the appropriate context. They are analogous to smileys used in email and chat; they're an extra communications channel.

Profanity is not antisocial. The overuse of profanity is antisocial. One can use the word "fifteen" as many times as necessary without diminishing its utility. Fifteen will still equal 15, no matter how many times you say it. On the other hand, the value of the word "fuck" lies in its emotional content. Every time that word is used, that content gets diluted for both the sender and receiver. When overused, the word becomes meaningless.

Profanity is simply another linguistic tool, and not using all the tools at one's disposal to communicate concisely and precisely is foolish. However, some tools dull faster than others, and the waste of perfectly good profanity through overuse and misuse is naturally offensive.

Re:As my pappy says...

[iamwahoo2]

Swearing helps you get more hot sauce:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY5yDo4rsEk

Proof the swearing can be useful.

Re:As my pappy says...

[thedave]

I used to work in the oil industry, and one of my trademark phrases was:

If you don't like that, you can go fuck yourself.

Simple, succinct, and to the point. Not once in my entire career did anyone ever ask me to clarify what I meant.

Re:As my pappy says...

[SanityInAnarchy]

One can use the word "fifteen" as many times as necessary without diminishing its utility.

And it can also be misused and overused. Just think of the words "nine" and "eleven".

The difference is, 9/11 attaches an emotional impact to meaningless numbers, while overuse of the word "fuck" removes the emotional impact from a word.

But what does any of this have to do with it being antisocial or not? Seems to me, if it generally has a negative impact, and you reduce the emotional impact, that's a socially good thing to do...

Re:As my pappy says...

[Anonymous Coward]

Profanity is simply a communications tool used to convey emotion directly instead of relying upon the receiver to interpret the words in the appropriate context.

Thank you, captain Obvious.

Re:As my pappy says...

[paeanblack]

The difference is, 9/11 attaches an emotional impact to meaningless numbers, while overuse of the word "fuck" removes the emotional impact from a word.

You are mistaken. The phrase "9/11" does not convey any emotion; it is simply a common descriptor for an event. It may instill emotion in the receiver, but by itself conveys no more emotion than the phrase "Battle of Hastings". The phrase "9/11" may even instill a vastly different emotion in the receiver than the sender attempts to impart. No matter how many times you say "9/11", its meaning will remain unchanged; it still refers to the exact same event every time.

Unlike normal descriptors, profanity actually changes its meaning with overuse or disuse and the list of words considered profane will necessarily mutate over time.

But what does any of this have to do with it being antisocial or not? Seems to me, if it generally has a negative impact, and you reduce the emotional impact, that's a socially good thing to do...

Profanity need not have a negative impact. An email from your boss that says something like, "Your sales demo fucking rocked!", is generally a positive thing. While it is important in the workplace to demonstrate the ability to restrain and direct one's emotions, it is pointless to assume we can be totally dispassionate. At certain times it can be appropriate and beneficial to express emotions using the tools of the language. Overusing profanity diminishes its value for others, which is why the overuse of it is antisocial. It's like littering. One more piece of trash won't change much, but it's still rude.

Re:As my pappy says...

[aproposofwhat]

"Battle of Hastings"?

Those fucking French cocksuckers!

Come over here cocky as fuck, shoot our good king Hal in the fucking eye with a fucking arrow, fachrissake - William the fucking bastard indeed!

Dominate good old Anglo-Saxon with their fancy Lingua Fucking Franca, demonise the use of good English swearing in favour of 'Baise mon cul, messieur, s'il vous plait'?

There - you've provoked an emotional response in me.

9/11 on the other hand does nothing - I can't think of any noteable event that happened on November the 9th, so I am unmoved.

Re:As my pappy says...

[Anonymous Coward]

So, an overused fuck/dick/cunt is a meaningless fuck/dick/cunt ?

Re:As my pappy says...

[SanityInAnarchy]

You are mistaken. The phrase "9/11" does not convey any emotion; it is simply a common descriptor for an event. It may instill emotion in the receiver

This is, fundamentally, how language works. Every word is "simply a common descriptor" for whatever meaning we choose to attach to it.

The phrase "9/11" may even instill a vastly different emotion in the receiver than the sender attempts to impart.

So might any descriptor.

Unlike normal descriptors, profanity actually changes its meaning with overuse or disuse and the list of words considered profane will necessarily mutate over time.

How is this unlike normal descriptors?

Profanity need not have a negative impact. An email from your boss that says something like, "Your sales demo fucking rocked!", is generally a positive thing.

I'll agree with that. But also, no overuse of the word "fuck" will make that mean less for me, because my boss doesn't use that word much. Even if I was swearing like a fucking sailor all the time, he doesn't, therefore, when he says it, it means something.

I would also say that a certain amount is needed. Suppose he said: "Your sales demo rocked in a sexual way!" That would be generally disturbing, which is why the emotional impact, and the actual meaning, does need to be reduced from what it originally was.

But you touched on it when you said "it's just a descriptor". No amount of me saying "9/11" will make the actual event mean less to the people who lost someone there. And no amount of watching the South Park movie, or listening to ICP's "fuck the world", will make "Your demo fucking rocked!" mean less to me. (I'm not sales, but I do make demos.) Interpretation is ultimately up to the interpreter -- to the person who hears the word, not the person who says it.

It's like littering. One more piece of trash won't change much, but it's still rude.

When you litter, someone has to pick it up. When I say "fuck", you can simply choose not to listen.

Is this the END of the fscking PC syndrome?

[zappepcs]

God, I hope this means the end of political correctness. That guy is black, that girl is fat, that secretary is stupid as a bag of hammers, that customer is blind, and the guy who fixes computers at sales office in Jersey is a short little moron, whose dubious parentage must surely include a mongoloid.

Why yes, I do feel more free for having said that.... oh, btw, that coonass in accounting puts bourbon in his coffee.

Re:Is this the END of the fscking PC syndrome?

[Notquitecajun]

Props for not going AC. By the way, there are a ton of blind people who don't consider "blind" as a slur. Most of the ones I have met, in fact, but it was always in the same context.

"Coonass" is cool as long as it ain't Nick Saban. I am one, more or less...it's a bit like "redneck," except from Louisiana and we can cook better. No one is certain as to its origin.

Re:Yikes. Bad Idea.

[lena_10326]

Moreover, while I can understand this would make most women uncomfortable in the workplace, I can also vouch for my experience in offices staffed predominantly by females--it's very uncomfortable for the few men, at that point.

I think it would make women uncomfortable. Cursing is often associated with anger, and anger with violence. Women are not fond of hanging around cursing, angry, violent men--even if it's not an accurate portrayal of what the man is thinking. What matters is the outward expression.

It's not the swearing

[niki9]

I doubt that swearing by itself has anything to do with stress relief. I think that supressing parts of your personality in mixed company is stressful, and that the relief of that stress comes when you have a casual/friendly enough relationship with co-workers that you can be yourself. Executives use swearing language less frequently because they have less casual/friendly relationships with most staff. It's more important for them to maintain a professional demaenor, lest they lose respect as an authority figure. Try replacing the every instance of the word "swearing" in this article, perhaps even in the study itself, with terms like "dressing down," "coming out," "cracking jokes" or anything else you normally curb in mixed company & it's probably just as true.

Maybe true but sad

[dfsteen]

I find it sad that People feel that they aren't able to express their emotions properly without swearing. Swearing was (and still is by most people) considered "inappropriate" language. The fact that people swear a lot these days does not meant that they would do so in court or in a religious building. This indicates that there is something not quite respectful or respectable about swearing. By extension when one swears at work one is indicating a certain lack of respect and respectability. This is certainly true when one swears about (or about the actions) of a co-worker with whom one is offended/annoyed. One is clearly showing a lack of respect for that person. I would argue that the degradation of respect for co-workers caused by swearing in these cases FAR outways any catharatic benefit of swearing. I realize that the study was specifically referred to swearing done in non-negative fashion, but the lack of respect is still there, and causes other more negative responses to be more likely.

Bud Light figured this out long ago

[dubbayu_d_40]

youtube.com/watch?v=EJJL5dxgVaM

Finally...

[bsytko]

Samuel L Jackson can finally, finally get a corporate job!

I think it is more about cohesion

[TamMan2000]

If everyone who works in one groups swears around people who they deal with day to day, but are 'polite' to the others (higher levels of management, clients...). The swearing, and accepting of swearing becomes a subtle way of saying, that we are comfortable with each other, and when people get a long together, they usually work well together...

If that makes any fucking sense...

Re:I think it is more about cohesion

[swillden]

So what happens to the group if there are one or two members who don't swear?

Re:I think it is more about cohesion

[TamMan2000]

I suppose it would depend on why they don't swear and how they react to those who do...

Viva Variety!

[abb3w]

Johnny Blue Jeans: "Hey Mister Laupin, can I say pig[BEEP!]er?"
Mr. Laupin: "No, Johnny, you can't say pig[BEEP!]er. Even on cable."

For myself, my main objection to swearing usually hasn't been the vulgarity, but the limited imagingation too often demonstrated.

Solidarity, brother!

[angus_rg]

Fuck off! We're the People's Front of Judea

I heartily disagree.

[weeboo0104]

Most of the people I have ever worked with or for that swore regularly when trying to have a discussion struck me as unbalanced and erratic. This is not the sort of behavior that you want to display in front of a prospective client that you do business with and have them feel confident giving you money.

The behavior might be fitting in an army barracks, but it's not something that is appropriate in the office.

Department of Redundancy Department

[noidentity]

This is the kind of news that your HR folks don't want to hear, but researchers today said letting workers swear at will in the workplace can benefit employees and employers. The study found regular use of profanity to express and reinforce solidarity among staff, enabling them to express their feelings, such as frustration, and develop social relationships, according to researchers at the University of East Anglia (UES). Researchers said their aim was to challenge leadership styles and suggest ideas for best practice. "Employees use swearing on a continuous basis, but not necessarily in a negative, abusive manner. Swearing was as a social phenomenon to reflect solidarity and enhance group cohesiveness, or as a psychological phenomenon to release stress, " the study stated."

Only a thin line...

[BinaryCodedDecimal]

There's only a thin line between allowing swearing in the office, and, well... other things.

Swearing is just part of it

[Womens Shoes]

I think that in general, most negativity should be tolerated. So many managers act like negativity is poison and they try to squash it. But by squashing it you just cement in employees minds that they don't matter, and that the company isn't open to criticism and improvement. People will still have the negative feelings, and still express them when nobody is looking, it's just that the bosses won't know how serious it is until people start disappearing. Of course continuous negativity without reason (some people are just whiners) is bad. But if good people are complaining (with swears or otherwise) it's probably worth understanding why and addressing it openly. That's what I fucking think, anyway.

The secret of Clippy's failure, perhaps, ...

[Mostly a lurker]

... was that it was too polite. No doubt, instead of trying to be helpful, it should have berated you for being too fucking stupid to work out how to use MS Office correctly. At any rate, I have absolutely no doubt that many on help desks will be relieved to know that they can now react to user problems in that way. It will definitely lower their stress, though the effect on the users is less clear.

Does the swearing apply equally to women ?

[goffster]

I woman swearing is perceived differently than a man swearing.

Sure, you can use it...

[gillbates]

But I'm not going to think highly of you for doing so.

In fact, when I hear someone swearing, the first thing that comes to mind is that they're some uneducated, undisciplined ignoramus who can't be bothered to think for themselves or respect the rights of others. Overcoming this impression is often quite challenging - because more often than not - the speaker is of lax moral and intellectual growth. I've never heard a highly performing engineer or programmer swear.

However, I have heard many highly professional engineers and programmers express frustration and dissatisfaction with their employer, and do it in a manner which explains the issue at hand while proposing a workable solution.

For some reason, they get a lot more respect than the guy who goes off into a litany of profanity. That kind of behavior often gets one branded as 'uncooperative' or 'adversarial' on their performance review, should they remain employed long enough to get one.

Being professional involves learning how to work through a difference of opinion with others without making oneself look like an idiot.

Re:Sure, you can use it...

[Abcd1234]

In fact, when I hear someone swearing, the first thing that comes to mind is that they're some uneducated, undisciplined ignoramus who can't be bothered to think for themselves or respect the rights of others.

Then you're a self-important, haughty jackass who prejudges people, and I think I speak for many others when I say I'm glad I don't work with/for people such as yourself.

I've never heard a highly performing engineer or programmer swear.

Then you haven't worked in very many workplaces. I work with a number of very talented individuals, and we all swear freely when it seems appropriate.

For some reason, they get a lot more respect than the guy who goes off into a litany of profanity.

Ah, I see, you just don't understand the point of the article. Here, let me explain, since your vast sense of self-importance seems to have clouded your ability to comprehend: we're talking about occasional use of profanity to express frustration, etc. However, that does not, despite your apparent confusion, immediately translate to using "fuck" every other word. Nor does it translate to using profanity as a mechanism for dealing with interpersonal issues.

It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[javabandit]

I know people who got fired for profanity, as well. In fact, I fired one myself. But the context of the profanity was the problem and not the profanity.

In the case of the guy I fired, it was during a post-mortem review for a project. Probably 15 people in the room. He said, "I'd rather lick a dirty asshole than have to look at code." Five minutes after the meeting, the guy was fired. Although, I'd have fired him if he said, "I'd rather lick a dirty anus..."

When people create a hostile work environment through their words, they should be axed. But I don't think profanity itself is the issue.

The issue is that *a lot of times* profanity is used in conjunction with verbally creating a hostile work environment.

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[Opportunist]

I doubt you fired him for profanity. I think the outcome would have been the same if he had said "I refuse to take a single look at code". You refuse to do your work, you're out. No matter how you phrase it.

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for creating a hostile environment here.

What if instead he had said:
"This code reminds me of a discussion on Slashdot where someone said that they would rather lick a dirty..."

Nevermind. You are so fired.

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[Anonymous Coward]

He said, "I'd rather lick a dirty asshole than have to look at code."

Yeah well I've seen enough code from our silicon vendors that sometimes that stance can be justified. Seriously. Code with every variable and subroutine having a number?

Get me a whole bucket full of dirty assholes for the licking!

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[Anonymous Coward]

In the case of the guy I fired, it was during a post-mortem review for a project. Probably 15 people in the room. He said, "I'd rather lick a dirty asshole than have to look at code." Five minutes after the meeting, the guy was fired." Wow, you're a pretty lame boss, to be quite honest. I can see firing people for being disruptive constantly, for not doing the work, if they complain incessantly and it starts affecting other people. But ONE little bit of profanity and you tossed this guy out? Fuck, I'd be glad to not work for you anymore. I don't think I could EVER fire someone just because they used some dirty language. Seems a bit pedantic to me.

I think you need to go out into the real world, rub it in with the masses. Because saying you'd rather lick a dirty asshole than look at code, sounds more like a vulgar joke than it does "people creating a hostile work environment through their words". Either you aren't telling the whole story about this guy, or you need to grow up. People swear, get over it man.

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[frieza79]

I'd rather lick a dirty asshole than work for a dick like you!

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[Anonymous Coward]

I too would rather lick an asshole than look at your code.

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[KudyardRipling]

One of the partners where I work is high-strung. His source of aggravation is the HP website and the junk on his computer, namely WinXP. Everyone in the orifice knows when he's at HP. He uses MotherFluoroUracil and CopperNT so many times Eddy Murphy would blush. I suspect that he may have applied for intellectual property protection for the words. I told him to set up a Linux system for himself, but he won't listen to sense and so the expletive stream continues.

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[javabandit]

I'm in the real world. In the real world, you don't walk around saying whatever you want without consequence. In an office environment, you at least need to be courteous of the environment. The swearing wasn't the issue as much as what he was saying. I had two people hit me up afterwards about how offended they were. If you work in an environment where the overt mention of licking assholes can be tolerated -- and you like it -- then fine.

Where do you draw the line? What if the guy said, "Hey, I'd rather suck a dick than look at code." ? Would that be over the line? Hell, if you only draw the line at someone who doesn't do the work, then I'd hate to be where you work. Its probably a free-for-all where people are constantly sexually harassed, overtly offended, and complete disrespected. Sorry, but that's not the kind of environment that I want to be a part of.

Re:It depends on HOW they use profanity...

[javabandit]

I doubt you fired him for profanity. I think the outcome would have been the same if he had said "I refuse to take a single look at code". You refuse to do your work, you're out. No matter how you phrase it. As I said before. I didn't fire him solely for the profanity. It was how he used it.

Also, we should probably distinguish between vulgarity and profanity. The two are different. The guy was totally vulgar, over the line, and ultimately, that's what he got fired for.

In the end, if someone does something that has the potential to bring a sexual harassment lawsuit, is seen (or heard) by a lot of people, and is acknowledged by a couple of people on the team as being completely vulgar and offensive -- you are probably going to be fired in most circumstances. At a minimum, put on a warning with a one-strike-and-you-are-out-rule. And rightfully so, I think.

...the hell?

[Anonymous Coward]

enabling them to express their feelings, such as frustration, and develop social relationships

Since when has work been about expressing feelings and developing social relationships?!

Actually ...

[PPH]

... before I started working here, I used to drink, smoke and swear for no reason at all. Now, thanks to this job, I have a reason.

Good work environments

[bobdotorg]

So working in the office of Dick "Go Fuck Yourself" Cheney must be fanfuckingtastic.

The HR department's email address is gofuckyourself@dickcheney.com. Same address for payroll and the health center too.

Touchy-feely BULLSHIT!

[BarnabyWilde]

Touchy-feely BULLSHIT!

Re:Yikes. Bad Idea.

[dctoastman]

Unprofessional is another way to say you don't personally like something.

Depends on what part of the country.

[SatanicPuppy]

I always found it to be worse in the Northeast, because it is forever driven home that you are different different different, and you have to watch everything you say because everything that acknowledges that you are white and they are black is RACIST. You have to sit and pretend like there is no possible issue, and you worry about everything you say.

As opposed to the South. Now, don't get me wrong, there is a lot of racism in the South, but the thing is, the fact that we know it's there makes it possible to actually acknowledge it instead of just sitting around pretending there is no problem. There are things you can actually talk about without worrying that people are immediately going to be offended.

Just my opinion, but I've lived a decade in New York/New Jersey, and a decade in South Carolina/Georgia so I have a pretty deep perspective.

Re:Depends on what part of the country.

[Anonymous Coward]

As the old saw goes...

"In the South, white people don't care if black people live close to them, so long as they don't get uppity.

In the North, white people don't care if black people get uppity, so long as they don't live close."

Having said that, living in the north and working in an office that's 50/50 as far as white and black goes, while I can't deny there was some racial tension, my experience was that it was nowhere near as bad as the grandparent made it seem. Yes, there are some taboo words (nigger and slavery being the two that immediately spring to mind) but on the whole we all dealt with each other on a fairly equal basis. There was far more separation on gender lines than on racial lines.

Re:Depends on what part of the country.

[SatanicPuppy]

Southerners are weird. Lot of times you'll get hardcore racists who have really close friends of other races. They don't even see it as hypocritical, because their friend is "different" from all those other *insert racial slur here*.

I find it's different with the word "slavery" down here. People remember. It hasn't been that long, and they get pissed if you try to pretend like it didn't happen, or just avoid the whole issue.

Sometimes it's what you need

[FranTaylor]

Groups of people sometimes engage in group fantasies where they forget about inconvenient facts and build castles in the sky. A well-placed expletive as part of a well-reasoned argument can pierce the giddy atmosphere quickly and get everyone back on track.

Re:Sometimes it's what you need

[FranTaylor]

So GET THE FUCK BACK TO WORK!

Re:It is called FUBAR

[LokiSnake]

Probably from spelling the "other variant" too much.

Its not the size of the word

[techpawn]

It's how you use it. Swearing in frustration when "Gosh darn it" doesn't cut it is one thing or to create a like mindedness among a team since expletives are generally the lowest common use of language. But, as the article points out, there is a time an place for it. I might tell my direct boss the project is a steaming pile of you know what but if I had to tell it to his boss I'd phrase it far more eloquently. Also, there are other people in the office, and as much as I hate political correctness we still have to take them into account even if they are grunts like us.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[klx]

You know, I had been wondering why my coworker can't spell that word, and that is DEFINITELY a plausible explanation.

The cardinal social science error

[hey!]

Confusing correlation with causation.

It seems more plausible to me that feeling secure at work is loosely correlated to both cussing and performance. Swearing may also be a culturally accepted practice in close knit competitive teams.

Second biggest social science error: failing to recognize culturally specific results. The interpretation of data presented in TFA commits this error as well. Starting a "swearing program" in a work culsture where people are alienated and insecure seems likely to cause these problems to become worse.

Personally, I'd like to see a lot more research into what differentiates more effective organizations from less effective ones. So many things that make for effective organization come in compromise pairs, for example cohesion and efficiency. It's easy to keep everyone on the same page if they spend all their time in meetings. You can also eliminate meetings, but then the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. That said, the research would have to be a bit better designed than another correlation study. These studies have their place: they don't generate useful answers, but they do generate useful questions.

Re:The cardinal social science error

[808140]

What is up with Slashdotters these days? I hate to break it to you, but people in the social sciences are not as dumb as you think — believe it or not, elementary (and even advanced) statistics is required for most of the social sciences. While your average frat boy may not have mastered the skill (or much of anything, for that matter) the people who go on to get PhDs in psychology and sociology definitely do. These aren't beer chugging ex-jocks trying to get through their undergraduate years by doing as little work as possible — these are people who, just like physics and chemistry graduate students, spend most of their time doing research, reading journals, and working with their advisors designing experiments.

Descriptive sciences and nomothetic sciences are philosophically somewhat different; the former are quite limited in how many variables they can isolate in an experimental setting but nonetheless have made a number of startling advances and discoveries thanks to the scientific method.

The fact that correlation does not imply causation in a general sense does not mean that it never does; in particular, because the converse is true — causation does imply correlation — we know that in many cases correlation does in fact hint to a causal relationship. While having correlation is not sufficient to deductively (in the sense of abstract mathematics) prove that a causal relationship exists, in an inductive, empirical setting it can be a good starting point in the formulation of a hypothesis.

A hypothesis — in the social sciences as well as in the hard sciences — is a guess at what's going on that seems to fit the data. Researchers in both fields know that these guesses are not necessarily right, and even in a nomothetic setting have often turned out to be wrong: but falsifiability is part of what makes science science, and no one who understands the process is going to be convinced by someone criticizing it on those counts.

Outside of the nomothetic ideal, we often need to examine the data, the various correlations that exist, and use what we already know (in this case, about human behavior, psychology, and social effects) to draw a logical conclusion. It may not be correct. Everyone understands that. But what is your proposed alternative? Draw no conclusions? How does one establish causality rigorously in an empirical setting? The answer: one doesn't. There is no rigor in science. That is best left to mathematicians.

In true Slashdot tradition, I have not read the article, but your arrogant dismissal of social sciences is irksome. Assuming these people are real researchers and not just media-whores, they have probably spent most of the last several years doing this research and before that, years becoming experts in their respective fields. You, on the other hand, know next to nothing about what they do, and yet feel qualified to imply that they (and not just them, but everyone in the social sciences) have based all their work on a logical fallacy someone with an eighth grade education could be taught to understand and avoid.

I'm not going to even get into your second ridiculous assertion — that social sciences "fail to recognize culturally specific results" — as our entire awareness of these effects stems from advances in sociology, which, as you may have noticed, is the canonical example of a social science.

There's more to life than programming. Go to the library.

Re:The cardinal social science error

[jra]

Hasn't Tom Peters been walking that beat for 20 years or so?

Re:The cardinal social science error

[hey!]

In true Slashdot tradition, I have not read the article, but your arrogant dismissal of social sciences is irksome.

Well then, I suggest you read TFA, and ponder this: if social science is intellectually worthless, why would I believe there are cardinal mistakes that people make in doing it? The cardinal mistake would be doing social science research at all.

Believe me, I am far from ignorant or dismissive of social science research. I probably had over forty undergraduate credits in various social sciences to contemplate my engineering education, and more importantly I have followed social science research avidly over decades of reading Science News and other popular journals.

While I have great respect for the social sciences, that doesn't mean I think all social science research is well designed.

hese aren't beer chugging ex-jocks trying to get through their undergraduate years by doing as little work as possible these are people who, just like physics and chemistry graduate students, spend most of their time doing research, reading journals, and working with their advisors designing experiments.

I will be more liberal than you on this: nothing about being a beer chugging ex-jock prevents somebody from being a good student or a productive social scientist. And while being a professional social scientist is practically a necessary condition for producing good social science (leaving aside the possibliity of statistically rare, exceptional individuals), it is not a sufficient condition. This is true in all fields, especially where tenure track pressures sometimes produce more quantity than quality in publications.

The fact that correlation does not imply causation in a general sense does not mean that it never does; in particular, because the converse is true causation does imply correlation we know that in many cases correlation does in fact hint to a causal relationship. While having correlation is not sufficient to deductively (in the sense of abstract mathematics) prove that a causal relationship exists, in an inductive, empirical setting it can be a good starting point in the formulation of a hypothesis.

I believe I noted the value of correlative studies in my original post. I also believe qualified my original remarks with "as reported in TFA" or some such words. You can't know with any certainty what a researcher thinks by reading accounts in the popular press. However, the account itself not only made the leap to causation, it went on to endorse changes in practice based on that assumption. Wouldn't you agree that is bad social science?

But what is your proposed alternative? Draw no conclusions? How does one establish causality rigorously in an empirical setting?

You put your finger on the reason that it is so hard to do good social science. It takes a great deal of skill and imagination to develop ways of teasing out confounding factors, and to do it ethically. Social Science isn't the only field that has this problem. Evnironmental sciences also have this problem. The field has lots of correlative and metadata studies, which are interesting, but not conclusive. Sometimes, you have to make recommendations without the benefit of clear and conclusive evidence, and you make do with correlation and a model that seems convincing to you. This is not science howewver, and it's not something a responsible scientist does unless the policy maker is facing the point of no return.

I've been involved with developing disease transmission computer models. If you think about it, what can computer models tell us about the outside world? In themselves, very little. Their main use is in the generation of useful questions, and they play a part in a web of empirical and theoretical research. Correlation studies are the sam

Solidarity

[Anonymous Coward]

it's about the freedom to express your opinion without a ton of self-censoring.

I completely agree. And I will add that the use of profanity is also about solidarity and trust (at least in the case of males...I can't speak for women on this topic).

Profanity is "familiar" speech, whereas a lack of profanity is often received as "formal" speech. In many languages familiarity of tone is indicated by actually putting different letters in your words (different endings or what-have you). In English that is not so, formality vs familiarity is indicated by vocabulary choice (and perhaps emotional intonation).

When speaking formally, one percieves a bit of a barrier between the speaker...a professional barrier, but a barrier nonetheless. Speaking informally makes both people feel more open with one another, and ultimately more able to trust one another. You feel like you are getting "the real person" rather than a well-masked professional persona.

Feeling trusting, open, and authentically heard by one's coworkers is a very good way of fostering an effective team environment. You feel like an "actual" team, rather than a random assembly of interchangable units.

That is what I think, anyway.

RHPS

[Pfhorrest]

In Rocky Horror Picture Show productions, a common pre-show routine to get the audience's attention is to shout "Attitude check!", which is properly answered by a resounding "FUCK YOU!" from all the regulars. (There are also follow-ups such as "Hormone check!" - "FUCK ME!" and "Reality check!" - "WHAT THE FUCK!?", but the first is the best IMO).

Re:My favorite General Patton Quote

[vertinox]

When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag. ... As for the types of comments I make, sometimes I just, By God, get carried away with my own eloquence. -General George Smith Patton, Jr.

SLASHDOT fudgepack gay material KDAWSON

[Anonymous Coward]

lick my balls

Only employees?

[wikinerd]

CEOs, board members, middle-level managers, and supervisors swear as well, not only employees.

Re:Only employees?

[808140]

CEOs, middle-level managers, and supervisors are all employees of their respective companies. You may want to check your dictionary's definition of the term employee — you seem to be confusing it with laborer. Board members, admittedly, are not (necessarily) employees.

What the fuck does PC load letter mean?

[r_jensen11]

'Nough said

The context and situation are important

[hodet]

The words are secondary to the context.

"Fuck me!!!" "screws up and slaps forehead and laughs if off with colleagues" -- meh!

"Fuck me!!!" "makes eye contact and within earshot of cute new office receptionist" -- bad!

Quite honestly nothing is really lost by not swearing, however harmless it might be. I actually find it unoriginal.

Re:The context and situation are important

[Archon-X]

Quite honestly nothing is really lost by not swearing, however harmless it might be. I actually find it unoriginal. Congratulations. Feel free to embrace your opinion while others brace theirs.

Re:Yikes. Bad Idea.

[strick1226]

The term unprofessional can be a qualitative assessment of the ethics, policies, or working conditions of a particular business, in comparison to society's standards of a given era.

At this point in time, I think it's fairly safe to say that society, as a whole, would not approve of this--no matter how much a minority of employees think it's a great idea.

Even if a company did want to modify its policy to allow such a profane workplace it would be a very short matter of time until some lawsuit/settlement-seeking slacker managed to get himself hired, file a complaint, and use the US court system to destroy its cash reserves.

Do I care if a company wants to run this way? Not really--actually, I'm all for allowing it, and letting others work there that would like the environment. Would I want to work there? No, but that shouldn't stop others from having the freedom to run their businesses the way they see fit.

Too bad the government doesn't see it that way...

When I say *#&!@... for example.

[OldHawk777]

"AFAP" (As Fast As Possible) no problem.
"AFAFP" (pronounce afaph or afaf, not afap) no problem.
"As Fast As Possible" no problem.
"As Fast As Phriken Possible" no problem.
"As Fast As Fucking Possible" big problem in the office with male weekend-clergy intern in tears?

Expressive English (EE) is a tool, I use EE to properly convey my deep
concern when communicating importance with immediacy of action required.
I have never and will never use expressive English to insult/intimidate
or bully/tease anyone (colleague or homeless), but god fucking damn it
when you need to express yourself strongly ... only certain MFing low-life
GFD SOB word phrases/combinations will convey the proper emotional intensity
of the situation. Acronyms are just to weak. Also, there is always that one
damn person in the vicinity that interrupts a spewing forth of expressive
acronyms; whith the question, ask what a particular acronym means? I never
get interrupted when I use the proper expressive words in context to address
a serious situation.

IOW: I agree with the mother-fucking findings of the god damn stupid cock-sucking slit-slurping study.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

You forgot:
BOHICA

Bend Over Here It Comes Again

F**king glad to hear that

[unity100]

Que them f**king workplace jokes in 3, 2, 1

No selfcensoring, dickhead

[SmallFurryCreature]

I Like THIS! Even better then talking like a pirate day. About goddamned fucking time we got some countermeasures against the damned PC nutcases.

Re:No selfcensoring, dickhead

[Scarletdown]

I Like THIS! Even better then talking like a pirate day. I propose we call it Gratuitous Use of the Fuck Word day.

Re:No selfcensoring, dickhead

[Anonymous Coward]

Talk like a sailor day?

Re:No selfcensoring, dickhead

[Kadmos]

What about:
Continuous Use of Naughty Terms day?

Re:No selfcensoring, dickhead

[aproposofwhat]

Look - if I wanted to work with cunts, I'd have been a gynaecologist!

(to be used with co-workers of the salesman variety when they promise the customer something technically impossible from your product, and expect you to deliver it)

comedian, whore, phone support

[wsanders]

Sounds like my last job.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[UncleTogie]

Agreed, with one modification...

My grandfather served in the army, and relayed those same phrases to us, with "fouled" in place of "fucked". Kept everyone out of trouble if the CO's wife was around. His is actually my preferred version, as I can repeat it in polite company..

....but there are times where nothing fits but "WTF?!?"

Re:It is called FUBAR

[QuesarVII]

Where did you hear that one? As far as I know, my cousin coined that one, and it has spread like wild fire from him. I know dozens of people that now say it, having learned it from him.

He works as a flat rate auto mechanic, so anyone that's familiar with that line of work knows that BOHICA is a very appropriate term for them to use!

Depends on where you work.

[Actually, I do RTFA]

This research applies anywhere in America (Fuck Yeah!). Specific workplaces in America (Fuck Yeah!) where it is especially appropriate are: McDonalds (Fuck Yeah!), WalMart (Fuck Yeah!), the Gap (Fuck Yeah!), NFL (Fuck Yeah!), (in) Slavery (Fuck Yeah!), StarBucks (Fuck Yeah!), DisneyWorld (Fuck Yeah!), Taco Bell (Fuck Yeah!), a Rodeo (Fuck Yeah!), and Bed Bath and Beyond (Fuck Yeah!).

I totally believe this.....

[LibertineR]

Microsoft 1990 = "Dude, your code fucking sucks, your girlfriend is fucking ugly, and you fucking stink. Dump that bitch, and spend some of your money from our soaring stock on some goddamn deoderant, you fucker!"

Microsoft 2007 = "Dude, I notice that your code is lacking, your significant other is looking a bit haggard, and you are neglecting your hygiene. Since our stock hasnt moved in 5 years, I think you should seek some personal counseling through Microsoft-Cares, rather than spend your own declining income."

Re:Yikes. Bad Idea.

[dctoastman]

I don't see anything in there anywhere about swearing.

http://www.systemsguild.com/GuildSite/TDM/Professionalism.html

Old Microsoft policy

[flyingfsck]

This has been an official MS policy for several years already. If the CEO does it, then it must be OK...

Re:It is called FUBAR

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

I heard it while I was in the Army, although I actually heard it from a Navy Master Chief, some time between 1985 and 1987. We both worked part time at a local computer store while off duty.

Choice of Words

[SirGarlon]

Choose those swear words carefully, though. Certain naughty words are associated specifically with a certain gender (maybe because they are anatomically derived) and to use *them* to refer to a person would be sexual harassment, AFAIK. Only gender-neutral swear words are permitted by U.S. law.

Re:Slashdot: News Echoed From

[macabresoul]

It's seems the white house is SNAFU. Whats the fucking problem?

Oh really?

[festers]

This is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard since I've been at Microsoft.

No sh*t!

[david.emery]

I -knew- I was being productive! :-)

        dave

What managers don't want

[plopez]

reinforce solidarity among staff, enabling them to express their feelings, such as frustration, and develop social relationships

It's been my observation that manager would not want this at all:

1) Solidarity among staff. Why? So they can form unions and plot against managers? I think not.

2) Express their feeling? Feelings don't matter, we just need people to get on with it and not rock the boat.

3) Develop social relationships? See item one. Also this isn't some sort of country club (unless of course it *is* a country club you're working at). All that blathering will get in the way of import things like meeting and typing up memos.

Anyway, that's my $.02. A bit cynical but not too far-fetched.

UES...

[Anonymous Coward]

University of East Sanglia?
It's UEA, i know, i'm a fourth year there

Stock Market

[felipe171]

Wall Street firms have long ago realised the benefits of swearing - hardly a day goes by without my boss, who is an English Gentleman, screaming things I wouldn't repeat to a convicted rapist

I Got The F*** Memo about the TPS Reports

[Joe The Dragon]

I Got The F*** Memo about the TPS Reports.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[Scarletdown]

Situation Normal, All Fucked Up. I think this one originated in the military around the time of the Korean War or Vietnam. SNAFU does date back to at least WWII. Otherwise Private SNAFU would have been given a different name.

Re:Working in the Navy - VILLAGE PEOPLE REFERENCE

[Notquitecajun]

We want you, we want you, we want you as a new recruit...

It is to laugh!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I see no place for women in business. They aren't the most rational beings either...

Yes, I'll probably get "modded down" as a sexist troll, but this is the truth, plain and simple. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I'd say 75% of women act irrationally 99% of the time. So, you're a girl, right?

Re:It is called FUBAR

[bob_herrick]

The series of which this is the first book - http://www.amazon.com/Red-Cell-Rogue-Warrior-Promotion/dp/0671019775/ref=sr_1_6/105-7972575-2745241?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192650090&sr=1-6 - was written by a former Navy Seal (see other post) and is the first place I saw BOHICA in print. I don't recall if it was in the first book in the series, but it showed up by number 3. PS I am running, not walking to figure out the syntax for swapping text for the url itself. Wish me luck.

Obligatory

[Beardo the Bearded]

You forgot TARFU - Things Are Really Fucked Up.

But fuck is just such a flexible word...

[.fuckFuckFuCkFUcKFUC]

It has so many shades of meaning, so much depth.
Its a verb ("go fuck yourself"), a noun ("you fucker"), an adjective ("she's fucking hot").
A greeting ("how the fuck are you").

See here for many many more uses of this tremendous word.

Love
The fucker.

JWZ on "professionalism" in the corporate environm

[coaxial]

On Februrary 26, 2000, on a slashnet IRC interview, JWZ was asked about how swearing and flaming (specifically with respect to Netscape's Bad Attitude newsgroup and Really Bad Attitude mailing list) fit within a corporate environment.

His response has remained with me all these years:

if you have a "corporate environment", then you've already lost the battle. likewise, if anyone ever refers to you or anyone you work with as "professional", then the coolness has left the building.

Mr. Angry

[joshsnow]

I used to work in a office with a man like that. He was perpetually angry. In fact we called him Mr.Angry. He was alway shouting about something. One hot day, the secretary brought us all ice creams. She took them around giving everybody one. When she got to Mr.Angry, he looked at her and snapped, "I can't have that, it's too sweet!" and then he walked angrily away.

That's my pointless story about my Mr.Angry. Every office has one. You'll be ok.

Eh.

[SatanicPuppy]

You should still be professional. I did a brief stint in retail, and managed to end up in charge by virtue of everyone over me being fired. I was on my way out, so I didn't give a damn...If some customer got rude, I threw them out of the store.

But I never swore at them. It's not professional. Ask them politely to leave. Ask them firmly to leave. Call the cops. I never had any problems, but I'm a big guy, and most people didn't try to get in my face.

obligatory

[ModemShark]

Seems to be on-topic. But beware, it's rude :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D7rWLzloOI

The secret to Bill/Microsoft's success

[j_l_cgull]

"That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft."

Re:It is called FUBAR

[generica1]

My first internet email address was provided by a UUCP dialup usenet gateway / email provider ran by volunteers from the ham radio community in my neighborhood. Their website is still up, although hugely stale: http://www.bohica.net/

They gave me a bohica.net subdomain which I could use with UUCP to provide email addresses to all of the users from my old dialup BBS,which they could check when they logged in through their private mail on the board.

Nobody ever really asked us what bohica stood for when they saw our email addresses, but the ops from the UUCP gateway told me when I asked... I instantly felt super-leet, having such a unique domain name for email addresses back when it was actually tough to find good free e-mail access.

Not that I have a point or anything, just wanted to chime in about BOHICA.

Turret's Syndrome

[stimpy77]

Hundreds of thousands of office workers everywhere are suddenly claiming to suffer from Turrets Syndrome, a la South Park. #%&!'n @#%^%^ out my @$$!!

Take a lesson from chopper...

[Anonymous Coward]

A notable Australian is helping the masses address this problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

Obligatory Lebowski Video

[h4ck7h3p14n37]

"The Big Lebowski", the f*cking short version!

STFU Donny and watch the video.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[OakDragon]

....but there are times where nothing fits but "WTF?!?"

Unfortunately, it's a TLA that takes more syllables (and longer to say) than the actual phrase...

Unless you pronounce it "WiTiF?!?"

Penn & Teller Bullshit episode

[crocodill]

There's a good episode of 'Penn and Teller: Bullshit!' about this subject.

Season 2 episode 10: Profanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Penn_%26_Teller:_Bullshit!_episodes#Season_2:_2004

Re:JWZ on "professionalism" in the corporate envir

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello, I worked at Netscape back in the day, and as I recall there was an awful lot of talk about "coolness". Specifically, there were some rather immature hipster wannabe types who loved , loved, to blather about "coolness" and rail against various perceived manifestations of The Man. jwz was the ringleader for those types. It seemed like many (not all, but many) of them spent a hell of a lot more time fretting about "coolness" than actually doing something useful.

I certainly think much more of the last part of the statement you quoted (about "professional" being a bad word) can be attributed to jwz's own personal issues and immaturity than to anything related to "coolness".

Re:It is called FUBAR

[UncleTogie]

Unless you pronounce it "WiTiF?!?

For myself, spoken, it comes out like "WuDuFuk". Three syllables, best done in with rising or lowering pitch depending on why it's used.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[Anonymous Coward]

Post using "Plain old text" or HTML Formatted, then use a regular HTML anchor.

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/blah">some text</a>

some text

Use the word...

[RoshinAU]

Perhaps one of the most interesting and colorful words in the English language is the word "fuck". It is the one magical word, which, just by its sound, can describe pain, pleasure, love and hate. In language, "fuck" falls into many grammatical categories. It can be used as a verb, both transitive (John fucked Mary) and intransitive (Mary was fucked by John). It can be an active verb (John really gives a fuck) or a passive verb (Mary really doesn't give a fuck); or an adverb (Mary is fucking interested in John), and as a noun (Mary is a terrific fuck). It can be used as an adjective (Mary is fucking beautiful). As you can see, there are very few words with the versatility of "fuck". Besides its sexual connotations, this incredible word can be used to describe many situations: Greetings How the fuck are you? Fraud I got fucked by the car dealer. Dismay Oh, fuck it! Trouble Well, I guess I'm fucked now. Aggression Fuck you. Disgust Fuck me. Confusion What the fuck...? Difficulty I don't understand this fucking business. Despair Fucked again. Incompetence He fucks up everything. Displeasure What the fuck is going on here? Lost Where the fuck are we? Disbelief Unfuckingbelieveable. Retaliation Up your fucking ass. Telling time I have to work till 5 o-fucking-clock. It can be used in an anatomical description -- "He's a fucking asshole." It can be used to tell time -- "It's five fucking thirty." It can be used in business -- "How did I wind up with this fucking job?" It can be maternal -- as in "Motherfucker". It can be political -- "Fuck George Bush." And, never forget General Custer's last words: "Where did all them fucking Indians come from?" Or the Mayor of Hiroshima: "What the fuck was that?" And last, but not least, the immortal words of the Captain of the Titanic: "Where is all this fucking water coming from?" The mind fairly boggles at the many creative uses of the word. How can anyone be offended when you say fuck? Use it frequently in your daily speech; it adds to your prestige. Today - say to someone "Fuck You!"

Who is Will?

[jimmux]

The summary says

researchers today said letting workers swear at will in the workplace can benefit employees and employers

but it doesn't say who Will is or why he is the focus of such abuse.

Re:It is called FUBAR

[rtayek]

....but there are times where nothing fits but "WTF?!?"

in polite company, i sometimes render the f as frog.

thanks

What the fuck is UES?

[Eunuchswear]

When I went to the horrible damp spot on the plains of East Anglia it was called UEA.

Let me tell you something

[v4vijayakumar]

Don't speak bad words, you ****ers!