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Teachers Fake Gunman Attack
Anti_Climax writes "Staff members of an elementary school staged a fictitious gun attack on students during a class trip, telling them it was not a drill as the children cried and hid under tables.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to these teachers after the charges brought against students in recent months."
Won't somebody please think of the children.
...this is undeniably domestic terrorism.
There's a homicidal poster on the loose here at Slashdot!!
With fear of stating the obvious I'll say this: How could teachers show such bad judgement, maybe practising for this type of situation could be a valuable experience, but with professional help and advice as well as parental consent, otherwise it seems like professional suicide and being in the states certain to cause tons of lawsuits.
Dude, this is pretty fucked up right here.
Was it really smart to say it was not a drill? It sounds, you know, like crying "wolf"...
Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
Well, at least they have started their education in not trusting authority, and learning that those in authority will lie to you. This is one of the lessons that most people don't get, until much later in life.
Assume everyone is aware of this unfortunate story from a couple weeks ago. My suggestion is that these teachers and the principle do a little time of their own. In fact their sentence should probably be much harsher than the one given to the Chicago teenager. I think most parents would agree that we do halfway expect the teachers and administrators of that school to act more or less like responsible adults.
Deja Moo: The distinct feeling that you've heard this bull before.
How can they be so stupid? These kids won't trust teachers ever again ... and they'll probably have trouble with authority figures for the rest of their lives.
I say we take the asshats responsible for this and lock them in the school's auditorium with all the angry parents and let the asshats see how it feels to fear for their lives.
We need to submit this to the Darwin awards and then wait for the children to grow up and sue the fuck out of these teachers.
There is just a line where stupidity goes from a mistake to outright malice. This crossed the line, turned round and started to pee on it while singing "it's raining men" and tap dancing.
I like muppets.
program.
If you feel so inclined, go ahead and let the school know what you think about this ...
t ml
http://www.cityschools.net/schoolsites/se/index.h
Scales Elementary Telephone (615) 895-5279
Considering how (relatively) common school shootings have become, I'm not against the idea of drilling kids on what to do in such a situation. If a set of procedures have been devised to combat the situation or at least keep it under control, then teaching it to the kids would probably be a positive thing. However, it does need to be taught to them.
You can't just spring a "real emergency" drill on them without first performing announced drills and properly training them. The result would be similar to the pandemonium that would result if it was announced that the school was really burning down every time there was a fire drill. That's no way to teach proper handling of the situation. You want everyone as calm and collected as can be.
The article is light on details, but I do hope some good comes of this. These teachers sound far too junior to be implementing this plan on their own. (Their first major mistake.) If schools take notice, however, perhaps more appropriate training and procedures can be put in place.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
While I read this article and think "Well, that was fucking stupid." I have to wonder if there needs to be a school-sanctioned version of this concept in place.
I grew up in US/USSR Cold War times and spent a few schoolday hours a year huddled in the fallout shelter basement during drills. We also had tornado, flood and fire drills. What fun.
Seems to me that as shootings get more prevalent it might be a good idea to have drills to limit deaths from mass panic.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to these teachers after the charges brought against students in recent months.
No it won't. Not much will happen to them. Unlike the student who was arrested a while ago for completing his essay assignment as sked, these teachers will not be arrested. At best they may be fired after a couple months of looking in to it. They will probably only get a slap on the wrist. Don't forget that America in not interested in protecting children. This is a perfect example. By pulling this stunt, the teachers were able to scare the kids and permanantly brand the image of terrorists into the Children's minds. It doesn't matter that the thing turned up to be a hoax, the less educated/experienced of the kids will live with fear for quite a while, perhaps their whole lives. The teachers are acting much as the rest of America acts. It more important to mold children into the "American Cog" than to treat them fairly, or to give them an education. I mean, after all, what about the terrorists?
I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
Gotta start teaching them to be scared at an early age, y'know...
This guy's the limit!
Just make them personally responsible for the mental health bills for all these children and that should be punishment enough. They'll never have another cent to their name.
Screw the mod points: A pox on all their damned houses, if it goes like I think it does.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
hope the parents have the balls to sue the school AND proceed with criminal charges against these morons.
"There is just no excuse for this type of abuse."
yes Johnnie Cochran you may use that one.
I mean seriously, what were these 'adults' trying to teach these kids? How to shit in your pants? About having a miracle moment? Sometimes it would help to consider the message towards the audience, entrusted. These adults won't be entrusted in the future as in the past, and that's probably enough. Let's all move forward, if only we can. Being a kid certinly sucks though.
You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
If all those pesky zero tolerance rules get used, there should be a lot of fired teachers. Even without the zero tolerance rules, there should be a lot of fired teachers. I'm old enough to remember the nuclear "hide under the desk" drills, but they were always clear it was a drill.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
If not for the fact that these things do happen, this un-drill would NEVER have taken place.
And honestly, this exercise could provide useful information to the faculty about what to expect if such an event occured and what preparedness training would prove most beneficial. Think of it as a pre-test, as it were.
Unfortunately, the children probably learned a lot as well - like sometimes adults will tell you lies and intentionally scare the shit out of you "for your own good."
ah learning....isn't that what school is all about?
Pandering to the lowest common denominator would be less frequent if more people were prime numbers.
Doing a drill where students are taught what to do and try to react in a controlled environment might be reasonable. Whether or not the underlying idea has merit, training has to be right to have value. Executing a drill for the purpose of finding out how kids will respond is just sick amusement.
Telling the kids that it wasn't a drill and they had to fear for their lives was counter productive at best. The teachers and administration that were involved in this should all be locked up. The purpose of this act was to terrorize the children. At a minimum, each person involved should be charged with one count of child abuse for each child affected by this incredibly retarded action. The closest any of them should be to a child for the rest of their lives is asking "do you want fries with that?"
1. Some students really scared. Parents cope.
2. Some Students really scared. Parents see dollar signs, hire lawyers.
3. Some students, this doesn't bother.
4. Lawyers sue, get settlement. Parents get small check, lawyers buy another couple of BMW's.
5. Pricipal gets talked to.
6. Teachers get fired, humiliated, and blackballed.
When an adult does it, it's "poor judgment;" when a student does it, it's "a potential threat that must be dealt with seriously."
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
I think they did the best thing they ever could have for these kids. The kids learn to deal with panic scenarios for later in life. Slightly lacking in taste. Sure!! But a good lesson none the less. For once these kids deal with reality in thier sheltered lives.
Because in about five seconds Jack Thompson will emerge from his hole and say that the teachers in question trained for this fake attack by playing Doom and Counter Strike.
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
Did anyone *ACTUALLY* think of the children before they decided this was a good idea?!?
Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?
But seriously, good think none of the students decided to jump from the window and died or badly injured themselves.
This event is no big deal, just teaching the fifth lesson.
Poor judgement perhaps, but I would stop it there. I wouldn't even go so far as to say that "drill" was inappropriate. When I was in sixth grade, we would pull pranks like this on each other all the time. In fact, at our school camp in elementary school I nearly pissed myself when our counsellors (teachers and high school students) decided it would be funny to tell us that a mad man with a gun was running around. We were all scared as hell, but it makes for a good jaugh now. I still do not understand what the huge deal is, but maybe that's because I'm still in a pre-columbine mindset. All I know is that they did this type of thing to us a few times, we didn't know they were joking at the time, and I'm not fucked up, nor are any of my former class mates (at least, not because of that).
It's not like there is much of anything a student can do in those situation. So the only thing a drill will test is the students fear reaction. Running, cowering, crying, self-defecation, etc... The ONLY outcome this exercise could ever lead to is mentally scaring the youth, and embarrassing them in front of their peers, instructors, and the public. See if these kids ever trust a teacher, or any education employee ever again.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Yep the teachers were total jobs, OK.
Kids got to learn the hard way about themselves. - almost always a good thing.
No-one got hurt, no I don't care if someone got stressed for 5 minutes. Getting stressed is an unfortunate part of life, get over it and learn to deal with it. If you don't push the human brain to go beyond it's comfort zone, it may never get out of being a whining spoiled brat that most of us are. This is probably the biggest favor some of these kids will ever have done to them.
Tomorrow most will forget.
Yep the teachers were total jobs.
Arrange for some convincing actors armed with high-quality toy weapons to threaten the idiot teachers who did this, in some time and place where they aren't expecting it. See how "educational" they find it.
You know, some decades ago... before Columbine, before the year 2000 incident when what's his name shot coworkers at Edgewater Technology, and I believe before incidents in post offices made the phrase "going postal" part of the language... on one Halloween I thought it would be funny to wear a Halloween mask at work. It was a corpse-like mask that fit over my head. Apart from the mask, I was wearing my ordinary work clothes. I sort of scrooged down behind my computer monitor. I waited for a couple of coworkers to walk buy, then slowly stood up, saying nothing.
Let me tell you, I was completely taken aback by the intensity of the moment of terror that evoked in my coworkers. The unspoken thought was that people don't wear masks unless they're robbing a bank, or something. I immediately took of the mask, apologized profusely, never did it again. I wasn't fired, lectured, or disciplined, but those coworkers were cool toward me for some time. I realized I'd made a serious goof.
They were adults. It was Halloween. I did not have any weapons. I didn't jump out. I didn't say anything: not "Boo!", not "stick 'em up," or anything suggesing violence.
And for a fraction of a second--my colleagues were in fear for their lives. Only a fraction of a second, but that's the effect of doing something like that.
I can't begin to imagine the effects of a staged mock attack by adults on eleven-year-old-kids lasting for five minutes. That's not a short period of time to be in fear for one's life.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Assume everyone is aware of this [chicagotribune.com] unfortunate story from a couple weeks ago. My suggestion is that these teachers and the principle do a little time of their own.
I'm not aware, no- and your link is registration-only.
I think we agree, though: why aren't they in jail and the local DA mulling over terrorism charges? They terrified a couple dozen students...
Please help metamoderate.
Here in Atlanta, one of our local radio talk show hosts regularly sounds off about how those who go into schools of education are usually the least-capable of any given college.
I never gave him much credence, until now. This was a shocking display of poor judgment.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
It would be nice to see these folks do the drill during a High School Rugby trip.
Teacher/Coach: "There's a gunman loose!"
Rugby team: "Yes! Let's kick his ass now!"
Teacher/Coach: "Wait! It's only a dri......."
Staff member gets his ass royally kicked. High school students' parents then sue school because their kids were terrorized.
OK, I'm dreaming again.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
And the accompanying fear-mongering only enhances the probability of such attacks in the future.
Still, in terms of number of lives saved, the resources would be better spent on educating kids about things like basic traffic safety, good nutritional habits, and not sniffing paint.
SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container
So they were telling the kids to lie on the floor like good little targets, WTF? They should be collectively attacking the ass-clown, not cowering on the ground waiting to be shot.
I'm surprised no one killed the teacher that was playing the attacker.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
XXX#######
Really.... no mention of anything using electricity, or fancy mechanics, or anything like that.
Is it ok if I rape your wife for a few minutes? I mean, it's only five minutes in a lifetime of good experiences. I won't even leave any lasting damage. You can even tell her that I'm coming, if you'd like.
Who, in their right mind, could possibly think that terrorizing SIXTH graders is a good idea? This sort of stunt would be a poor choice with teenagers but with children? Are you joking?
I hope, at the very least, that some of the teachers involved with this stunt lose their jobs, let alone face criminal charges.
did they train them what to do first or were they just thrown into panic with no guidence?
did they coordinate with local law inforcement and emergency services so they knew it was only a drill and participate in the drill?
if something like this was done right it could be a good thing, this shows none the signs of having been done right.
wonder what would have happened if someone had been seriously injured or killed in the panic?
If this shit really happened I think those involved should do some time behind the bars.
This kind of shit leaves people mentally scarred for live. Just like raping someone.
What can I say, only in Amerika...
Einstein did horribly in school... I'd argue that 'school' is just to raise the general populace - the truly gifted will find it to be more of a hindrance than a help. Nerds tend to be self-taught from what I have seen.
They could never pull that off in NY... Those kindergarteners don't play that!
Infiltrated dot Net
I think that in the context of a long series of drills and training, that it would be appropriate for a "surprise" drill of this sort, but having one out of nowhere, especially dealing with kids of that age, is just asking for a massive lawsuit.
I'm personally in favor of a more aggressive approach to school safety...Kids need to be taught to duck and cover when possible (e.g when you're in a secure room), and to mob the gunman when they're not...Hiding under desks is worthless.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
No shit, Sherlock.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"I was like, 'Oh My God,' " she said. "At first I thought I was going to die. We flipped out."
OMG, like this is the student quote they totally decided to use in the article? Cool!
Had the students been taught to fight back. Since they were not told it was a drill, it could have been quite a sight with 60 little ninjas armed with pens, rulers and flying calculators. Not a pretty sight to say the least...
You could have a plan for every high profile type disaster that could possibly happen somewhere -
1) Asteroid avoidance plan
2) Volcano escape procedure
3) Mustard gas attack escape plan
4) Aeroplane plummitting from the sky escape plan (you could even drop a real-size cardboard plane out of the sky to create the right atmosphere)
5) Alien invasion fighting back plan
6) Super-AIDS avoidance plan (don't sit on the toilet seat)
7) Cameron Diaz offering everyone a blowjob plan
Even the regular broadcast news does this.
I once actually paid attention to the locations of these "news" items one time. They were from all over the World. What's happening with the news it's being distilled. So a very rare incident looks like it happens more often than it really does for any given area. Now, the public who doesn't pay attention to the locations of these incidents or even if it's a new one and not a rehash of something happened weeks ago, perceive this incident as happening much more ofter than it does. Look at Meth labs. Because it's big news whenever one gets busted - and they are rare - folks think there's some major crisis with Meth and the easy availability of Psuedophredrine. So, the politicians get involved, and now to get cold medicine that actually works requires filling out a form with your name, address, phone number, and driver's license number - all for 10 pills that have other compounds in addition to the psuedophedrine.
And then this incident, all it's doing is perpetuating the culture of fear in the US.
I got to stop..Im starting a rant.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
http://www.cityschools.net/schoolsites/se/images/N ews%20Release.jpg - Released by the school.
Now, the only decision you have to make is do you believe the 11 year olds description of "about 20 kids started to cry" or the schools "the children remained there quietly for a short period of time"?
what the hell were they thinking???
I think it's because they use Windows at that school, which is clearly the real culprit.
Told by a person they inherently TRUST. If a person you trust completely and whose authority has been reinforced by pretty much every person you trust, your parents, your peers, the other teachers, if such a person tells you something is real, you do believe it as a kid. You don't have too many experiences to compare it to and question the judgement, so you have to believe it.
And 5 minutes in fear aren't just 5 minutes. They are 300 seconds, 300 little deaths. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Seconds turn into hours as your complete system goes into overdrive, which is actually a good thing in theory, since it would allow you to react and act faster, but when you can't do anything but sit around, panic is the usual outcome. And 5 minutes of panic are 300.000 little deaths.
And now an important question: What purpose does it serve that they "feel what it's like"? Would they have a better idea to "feel what it's like" to be, say, in Iraq, by telling them that for the next 5 minutes, you'll be walking down a road and EVERYONE you meet might have a bomb and kill you?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I was about to suggest that they played too much "Oregon Trail"
There is more to science than physics!
www.iomalfunction.blogspot.com
Keeping in mind that a Darwin Award is awarded to individuals that remove themselves from the gene pool in spectacularly stupid ways. It doesn't necessarily involve dying, but is does require that one be rendered incapable of reproducing, whether though death or sterilization.
So, who was killed or had their nuts cut off as a result of this dumb little stunt?
...when the hood came off.
Student 1: Hey! Hey folks, wait, it's our math teacher.
Student 2: I know.
Student 3: I've known from the start.
Student 4: I've seen it in the way he walked.
Student 5: Could you cut the chatter and concentrate on kicking?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Here's a statement from the school administrators from the elementary school's homepage:
http://cityschools.net/schoolsites/se/index.html
While I agree that the administrators on the field trip might have been a bit boneheaded in pulling this particular prank in light of recent events, it doesn't sound like this was any kind of "drill" at all. They also seem to have done some kind of follow-up with the students' parents after the trip.
My (catholic) high school had a set of procedures for this sort of thing. A former principal of the school was a priest named Father Schmidt, who had passed away about a decade prior. So, when they paged "Father Schmidt" to the office, it was a signal that there were hostages being taken somewhere in the building. We were to close and lock doors, kill lights, open windows, and huddle against an internal wall - presumably, so that we could be seen and counted from outside the building.
I remember one year, where they announced on Monday Morning that they would run the drill at some point on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. They paged, we hid, then police officers cleared each room and told us what a wonderful job we had done. That was that.
A planned drill is fine, these procedures should be rehearsed. But, what if one of these kids tried to be a hero? Someone really could have gotten hurt. These teachers need to be sacked, at the very lease.
Never underestimate the potential of Human stupidity. -Heinlein
Except, don't bring a real gun, but pretend that you have one. Then, after you're done, tell the clerk that it was all a drill. Hell, hand him the money back. I'm sure the police will understand.
This is a sig. It is appended to the end of comments I post.
If you read in other news sites you can see that one of the students had an iPod. :p
The level of stupidity here stuns me.
What were they going to do if one of those kids parents
had shown up during the "attack" with a shotgun? And where
did they find sadistic morons to threaten the lives of the
kids without real weapons? What were they going to do if
a Cop or an FBI agent happened to be nearby? Or what if
a random stranger had seen the "attack" and called the
SWAT team, DHS, HRT and the media? Those morons could
have gotten themselves killed, not to mention what could
have happend to the kids.
IDIOTS
Isn't it interesting that schools need parental approval for sex education but no approval for violence education?
Taking in account that it happen in Tennessee were the number of guns must be about 2 per local resident that should be pretty usual.
Told by a person they inherently TRUST.
What? Seriously? That ended for me somewhere around third grade...when I realized that my teacher had a grasp of mathematics only a few years beyond mine...which wasn't enough to answer my questions. Of course, what really destroyed it was learning that the simplifications of science we were being taught was such a simplification that the answers were actually wrong.
At what point does enough critical thinking kick in so that you don't trust what your teachers tell you anymore?
Did that not happen for you?
You could be right about the other stuff...but I don't know. 300 little deaths? Why not 20? Why not 600? They're evenly divided by the second, are they? Remember, the guy wasn't actually there. The fear of death was of the possibility of it, not eminent death.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Sadly, they didn't make themselves elligible for a Darwin award. Remember, the point of the Darwin awards isn't to name-and-shame stupid people who stayed in the gene pool, but to honour those who sacrificed themselves (preferrably in a spectacular way) to improve the species. I.e.,
1. they have to be an evolutionary dead end, without further chance to pass on whatever genes made them so stupid. I.e., they have to end up dead or at least unable to reproduce to qualify for the Darwin award.
E.g., Borston Corbett, although he never actually killed himself, would have deserved a Darwin Award (had the Darwin Awards existed at the time), for his castrating himself with a pair of scissors to avoid being tempted by prostitutes.
2. it must be obvious that it's to the good of the species that they removed themselves from the gene pool. The act by which they removed themselves from the gene pool must show remarkable stupidity and/or poor judgment. It must be blindingly obvious to someone of average intelligence that it's potentially (and very likely) fatal to do that, yet the nominee thought it would be a good idea.
E.g., someone who fell from the 20'th floor because they leaned against the bannister and it broke, doesn't qualify. Someone who fell from the 20'th floor when trying to stand on a wheelchair in their balcony to hang a bird house, that one fully quallified.
What does that mean here? A bunch of stupid teachers making kids cry isn't enough to earn them a Darwin award. Now maybe if they were trampled to death by the scared kids, then they'd qualify for a Darwin award. Though even that is debatable. It can be argued that one would more realistically expect the kids to cry and take cover than to do a stampede, and that it would take extreme bad luck for an adult to be trampled to death by a few kids.
Mind you, this whole act is such extreme stupidity (or maybe sociopathy) anyway, that it's a shame that they didn't go the extra mile to earn a Darwin award. Dunno how. Maybe climb on a house to play the gunman's role and fall over. Or something. But, alas, they stopped well short of removing themselves from the gene pool.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
when i was in school in germany, we had fire training days at irregular intervals - that is what is needed
ever saw an unorganised crowed in panic trying to evacuate a building?
so my question is, when did they do the last fire alarm training at this school?
Where did the find a gun that could make a fake attack. All the guns I'VE ever been exposed to simply lie there without moving. I have never heard of any reports of guns attacking schoolchildren, or anyone else when you get right down to it.
...they would be able to take idiots like this out of the gene pool.
There is more to science than physics!
www.iomalfunction.blogspot.com
That's because anyone really qualified to teach stays the hell away from education.
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."
This link was posted in another comment. People should read the news release at the top of the page as it offers an account of the events that contrasts starkly with the media accounts. Apparently, there was no "attack" staged; rather, the teacher told the children that there were people somewhere nearby shooting guns, though not at people. Most of the children did not seem upset by the incident. A few did, but supervisors talked to them and reported that they seemed fine afterward. But read the press release.
And the camera footage would have been hilarious :)
psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo
Or worse...What if one of the little gaffers decided to use their gun?
Levon Barker
In fact, shootings are less common now than 40 years ago. They're just bigger when they occur. But even then, total death count is lower.
Dig a little deeper Waston!!
--
In Fascist America, commerce controls YOU
Home Alone and its various sequels suggest the hilarity is quite limited.
More Twoson than Cupertino
I went through something similar to this when I was about 11 years old.
A church I went to wanted to impress upon us that there were people out there that wanted to see christianity harmed and would stop at nothing to cause its downfall.
They got the idea that on one sunday that a few members of the church would come into the church dressed as gunmen with the ploy that they were there to kill christians.
Needless to say I was terrified and will NEVER forget that experience. I don't beleive in what that church did and I strongly disagree with what this school did.
You should NEVER use scare tactics to inform children of anything. Children are brighter than people give them credit for and just talking to them would have gotten the point across better.
"Former" teachers fake gunman attack
It is as bad as you think and they really are out to get you.
If you think the current crop is bad, wait until you get the kids that came from the current crop being the next one. The current thinking is that self esteem is more important than realistic self evaluation of one's capabilities.
People have been complaining about this for 30 years. The funny thing is the people who complain about it now are in many cases the same people who went through it themselves, yet have no problem proclaiming themselves realistic about their abilities and competitive. If you came out fine, why do you think the current generation won't?
Oh Really?
I'd love to hear this explanation...
Remove all automatic or semi-automatic guns from shops. The right to bear arms was for self-defense, so use defensive weapons: small with a very limited number of bullets (like 2 or 3). NO-ONE needs an TEC-DC9, a Hi-Point model 995 carbine rifle, a Sawed-off pump-action shotgun or a Double-barrel sawed-off shotgun. a small handgun should suffice.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
I'm not condoning it but I think everyone has totally overreacted. It was only a prank and its made national news.
America is breeding a country full of paranoid parents and kids that need psychotherapy if someone says boo to them.
"Told by a person they inherently TRUST."
I question whether that -really- matters in this situation.
You're at a park, having a hamburger. A guy runs up and says 'The park rangers say there's some guys shooting guns randomly in the park!' Does it matter that you don't trust him at all? You're going to assume he's telling the truth.
Your best friend, a known prankster, does the same thing. You still assume he's telling the truth, but you question him to make sure.
Your teachers, who you KNOW have yet to play their annual prank on this year's field trip, do the same thing. Again, you STILL assume they are telling the truth, and do what they say. But a part of you knows that it could be fake.
Yes, the third one IS the case here. In another post, someone has linked to the letter the school wrote explaining the situation. Some of the more trusting children will have the walls of their bubble shaken a bit. (I'd have been one of those children. I've always been way too trusting of authority.) The rest of them will laugh it off, and wonder what they'll do next year.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Give it 2-3 weeks and this will become an episode of Southpark... We can only hope.
When did /. become geeky Drudge?
stay on target....
From the article it didn't seem like a drill. From the article it seemed like they were away at camp, my district called it outdoor school, and this was the "scary story" that they told. When I was a kid the story was very unbelievable by adult standards, but just believable enough by a child's standards to be moderately ( to sometimes very ) scary. It seems the reason they said it wasn't a drill was because they were putting on this ruse. If this is indeed the case, then this was very poor judgement. However, if it was like my outdoor school then the scary story was enacted by the high school aged counselors who were there helping to take care of the kids. Once again, poor judgement, but then it would be by the counselors and the teachers would have had to be more aware of the story that was spread. I just question everything in these stories because the truth is always colored by our own filters and the filters of the person telling the story.
Went through a similar experience when I was in high school. Was at a church camp of all places and the 'leaders' decided a mock hostage situation idea would be a good idea. One girl in the group had just recently been robbed at gunpoint and was severely traumatized by the whole thing. They set it up telling us that someone had escaped from some detention facility earlier in the day and while we were all eating a man came in with the director at gunpoint and told everyone to get down. He shot in the air and a couple of friends and myself all noticed it left no hole in the ceiling (hmmm .. blanks??). We quickly started quietly communicating to each other how to get metal chairs and grab this sob and beat the hell out of him. I guess luckily one of the leaders saw or heard us planning and stopped the whole thing. Still to this day (15 yrs later) I wish we would have gone faster and been able to abuse this guy a little. Not really sure if any of the 'leaders' ever got to do much in camps again after that and not sure many of those kids wanted to go back to camps either. What a joke ... people really are amazing.
I feel for the kids that had to go through this and hope it does not screw up any of them too bad. I am sure the parents are loving dealing with the nightmares and fears now.
I don't think he was suggesting that anyone hide under a desk, because that's equally as stupid as going after a gunman - both are only reasonable options when you have no other choice.
I think he was suggesting more to get the hell away from the area via a safe route, or otherwise get somewhere the gunman can't get to (i.e. blockade yourself into a room much like the students that survived Virginia Tech did).
Both your suggestions are prime examples of what the person you were responding to meant when he mentioned lemmings - people who just sit and die and people who, well, go and die. Both are equally stupid when there's another more blatantly sensible option - get to safety and let well trained police/soldiers wearing bulletproof vests and armed with flashbangs deal with the guy with a gun.
two words: mob rule. 60 little gremlins armed with sharp pencils or pens descend on the gunman. The gunman would not have a chance.
Think about this: if the shooter is a student, as is generally the case, then that student has been through the same situation drills as everyone else and can therefor adapt his or her plan to to take that into account. Remember that situation in Arkansas a few years ago, where the kids pulled the fire alarm then sat outside with the guns so they could shoot people as they came and stood in their pre-designated areas? Yes, just like that.
If there is to be a plan, then the students can never know about it. The teachers just need to know where to put the kids and when.
This shooter drill thing is troubling since my plan is nudity. Being a somewhat overweight, hairy guy this would serve many purposes.
1. Distraction - They are coordinating a dangerous operation and the last thing they need is to ponder is what's up with that fat, naked guy. This distraction is just what the SWAT team is looking for.
2. Not a Threat (Mostly) - Unless I'm aroused I'm not going to appear too dangerous at first but in the back of their minds they know they aren't going to want to fight a naked dude.
3. Safety Via Shame - They aren't going to shoot everyone because then no one would be left to explain the naked guy. I don't think there is anything wrong with being gay but there is a good chance that the shooters aren't going to want people to think the fat naked guy thing was their idea of sexy time. At the very least they are going to want to spare a few people to make sure everyone knows that I didn't get naked because they asked me to. My naked ass might not survive that scenario but I'd go out saving a few lives.
My home anti-invasion/burglar scheme is pretty much the same idea. I've near heard of a nudist being robbed.
If you didn't come to party don't bother knocking on my door. Prince '1999'
Fucking morons teach YOU!
wonder what if one of the students had brought a gun that day? Maybe shot the hooded teacher who rattled the door?
It would have served the fucking moron right. If you rob a liquor store with a toy gun, it's still armed robbery. If you threaten someone with a toy gun it's still assault with a deadly weapon. If you point a toy gun at a cop, he'll shoot you, and the shooting is legally justified.
Why weren't these people charged with a crime?
-mcgrew
After the Virginia Tech massacre I heard many gun advocates say that the attacker would have been stopped sooner if half of the students were armed themselves. I guess the problem of how to discipline these incompetent teachers would already be solved if these kids had real guns of their own.
Wouldn't this whole thing fall under the Brandenburg v. Ohio ruling? The ruling that free speech, which I assume the teachers might claim this was an exercise of, could only be banned when it was directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot)? Lord knows if these kids had been older they WOULD have rioted... It's like sitting in a theatre, waiting until the lights are out and the mood is right, and screaming FIRE! While fun, the chaos and carnage that follows is not. Also because of Brandenburv Vs Ohio, it's no longer legal.
Now they won't question the government's need for tough resolve when they get older.
I'm not trying to be flippant. Aside from the obvious fact that these people are morons, I can only think some half-baked concepts like that were floating around in their skulls. Now the kids will be adequately traumatized to be vigilant, they'll know terrorism is serious business that can strike anytime and anywhere and they'll realize that we are in a situation where society has to do "whatever it takes to keep us safe".
Teaching the kids pathological hysteria, basically, on the march to Christo-Fascism.
I don't know the recent numbers, but last time I checked (several years ago), more kids were killed every year by government mandated airbags than by school violence. That is, kids who would have survived the low-speed crash were killed by the airbag. Hopefully the airbags have gotten better, but the "increase" in school shootings is a media non-event. The media plays up the race to be the "largest school shooting" (vs. "school killing" since one guy w/ a gun has trouble competing with one guy w/ a bomb)
"Nothing could go wrong with this idea."
I mean in Chicago there's a substitute teacher who showed "brokeback mountain" in a school, and the same thought must have gone through her mind.
You're educators, there's millions of things that your student doesn't learn in their 4 years at your school that they should have? Why do you feel the need to push the envelope when it's already been proven that you haven't even been doing an adequate job at preparing the children for college/the next year of school/life.
Unfortunately for them, even their own version seems crazy, insane, evil, outrageous, and inexplicable. According to them, it was customary for the teachers to perform what they call "typical campfire pranks" on the children. That's no way to treat pre-teen children. So-called "pranks" from adults are absolutely unacceptable, because children do not have enough experience to judge when a situation is absurd.
Not to be rude, but why is this on slashdot?
I'm going to quote myself from another article...
And to that I'll add this example to my growing list...
faking attacks is good training in case of a real attack. when i was in the army we were the victims of mock ambushes and raids all the time in the field... often at night or when we stopped to piss. it taught us to always be on alert. my second week of basic training i learned to stop pissing mid-stream. by the 6th week my default reaction to being awakened was to choke whatever woke me up. even now that i have been out of the army for 10 years i occasionally wake up from nightmares and look around for my M16. i am sure these kids have received the same benefits, and in their formative years no less.
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
Thanks for digging a little. Hearing both sides sure puts things in perspective.
Dude, have you ever tried to pee while you're tap dancing (or tap dance while you're peeing)? You ruin your shoes long before you get to the big finish
Just leave your trousers on and fastened, and your shoes will be fine.
The disproportion between these responses and the reality of what happens every day to children in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, China, various bits of the former Soviet Union, Burma...some US inner city areas...the list is almost endless...is just stunning.
I have news for you. As far as anyone knows, the human race hasn't evolved significantly since _we_ were the subject of predation. I rather think that even small children are actually quite well equipped, for the most part, to deal with a bit of irrational fear and panic. But some of the posters on this thread need to be battered over the head with the Diaries of Anne Frank until a clue makes inroads.
Meanwhile, in the UK, some riding schools have apparently closed down because of parents getting their children to join in the hope they will fall off a horse and the school can be sued. So no, this is not an anti-US rant. It's probably an anti-lawyer rant in disguise.
Pining for the fjords
I think more schools should do drills like this, and involve local and federal law enforcement so that school administrators can find out how to increase evacuation times and decrease number of people dead. The method and planning of this was undoubtedly piss poor.
In grade 7, my teacher staged a crazy gunman attack in the classroom - mind you this was nearly 20 years ago now...
First thing in the morning, he's starting up a lesson, and some guy barges into the room ranting about how he'd been cut off in traffic, and how angry he was. After a few shouted exchanges, he pulled a cap gun out of hit pocket and "shot" my teacher - though he got excited and "shot" himself in the foot instead. Then he ran out of the room.
I think the point of the lesson was to teach us how to be good eyewitnesses or something. I don't remember if my teacher had a fake blood pack or not - could be that my memory has embellished it.
We weren't cowering under our desks, but the accuracy of our eyewitness accounts was shockingly bad even seconds after the event.
Mr. Selvig was a great teacher.
At what point does enough critical thinking kick in so that you don't trust what your teachers tell you anymore?
From my experience as a college professor, I can say: sometimes during graduate school, more often during the first "real" job.
Just fry the bastards!
"or a teacher with a concealed carry permit"
Are you suggesting that the same people who decided to pull this stunt should be armed in schools?
America, whatever you do, don't stop your crazy collapse into self-fear and psycotic rambling.... We all find it so funny to watch!
This is better than any stand-up comic. It really made my day. Complete with lunatic NRA dude! Tell you what - why not wave the constitution in front of you and arm each 11 year old with a nerve gas bomb made by the lowest bidder?
And if we mounted cheap AA weapons on the school tower, we could cover all classrooms as well as defending ourselves from the Commies and the Fedral Menace?
Can I just say, they would have gotten what they deserved. You threaten somebody's life, even if you know it's not a real threat, then whatever that person does to defend themselves is justified.
In the same way that someone can be convicted of "armed robbery" even if they just say they have a gun...
...maybe that law has to have a special amendment?
I'm not a huge fan of firearms myself, but I wouldn't consider it completely irrational that perhaps one or more well-trusted members of the faculty have training and access for firearms, which would be kept in an accessible but secure location.
According to wikipedia "Primary or elementary education consists of the first years of formal, structured education that occur during childhood.". In other words, the target group of this excercise is in the age of 5 - 11 years.
What could possibly be the reason behind something like this? Exposing little children to such a nightmare scenario is insane. I guess there will be more than just one child being left behind with psychological traumata as a result of this.
Either the teachers were completely out of mind or these teachers have the intention of inflicting fear, making the children obedient.
Yt,
Gunnar
"I love to go down to the schoolyard and watch all the little children jump up and down and run around yelling and screaming... They don't know I'm only using blanks."
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
...is that the "Director of Schools" (I live in Tennessee and thought we still called them "Superintendents", huh...) trumped the principal and stated that "prompt and appropriate discipline will be taken" -- of course, that's a potentially loaded statement, all depending on what her idea of "appropriate" discipline might be...
Personally, I say these "educators" should be given the "educational opportunity" to frequently utter the phrase "and would you like fries with that?"
This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
I'm surprised to hear people saying the teachers and school should get sued. I think felony charges and jail time would be a much better reaction to this incident.
my one nitpick with evolutionary theory:
it's NOT Darwin's work being done.
it is the natural process DESCRIBED BY Darwin.
</nitpick>
It's not stupid. It's Advanced.
This is on this particular web site WHY???
This was like 6 or 7 years ago now. I was attending a secondary ed. career center and they staged a gunman attack. It was executed very nicely; everyone knew what was going on, (well, that there would be a drill of that type on that day) and the local police department and hospital ER staff was even in on it so they could practice their skills in handling the situation.
Certain students were selected play roles. I got to play a shot guy! The police dragged me out to the ER people, who tossed me in an ambulance and I went all the way to the ER. Whee.
I'm sure it was very instructive, not so much for the students but for the faculty, local PD, and hospital, who all need to coordinate together in situations such as those. I rather miss that "tech center." Shortly after Columbine the local highschools started to go batshit crazy, expelling students and messing up their lives for the most rediculous of offenses; as I understand it this sort thing still continues. The Tech center, on the other hand, still has a rather open and friendly atmostphere. The faculty and students appreciate and respect one another, and the exercise I described actually served to strengthen that bond.
Anyway, mostly rambling now. I guess the point is, I think there is some correlation between how many schools treat their students these days (ie as dangerous criminals vs., well, people) and how these sorts of exercises are run (ie as cruel experiments vs. community oriented preparation). I would also conjecture that the behavior of the students reflects how they are treated...
The snow doesn't give a soft white damn whom it touches. -- ee cummings
The school is lying. It is right their in their own report.
"The children went to sleep and did not discuss it the following morning."
The absurdity of that statement is staggering. They are trying to convince people that in a class of over 60 students, after teachers pulled a 'prank', that not one of these ~60 students said anything about it the next day? Not one of them teased another one about falling for the 'joke'? Really? Not one?
This should send out as much of a warning to parents about the safety of their children as the original incident. This shows pretty clearly that the faculty of this school is more than willing to conspire to cover up criminal acts committed by members of the faculty. That's right. An honest to goodness conspiracy. Reporting a fake shooting threat is no different than reporting a fake bomb threat. Faculty members from this school committed a crime, and they have now committed another crime by trying to cover it up.
Remember the scary eggs in the frying pan - "Just say no." - scare tactics? The result was a lot of misinformation that made the frying pan warning ad such a cultural icon for those trying pot. In other words, once the lie was exposed that your brains actually aren't eggs the people were getting high left and right - there were more people made aware by the ads, but aware of the dangers of drugs in the wrong way. Drugs were now not taken so seriously, because if the Gov't was make these silly ads then drugs can't be all 'that' bad. Eggs. LOL!
On the gun front, if everyone would just carry a personal nuke then nobody would have been shot in VT! More guns is NOT the answer.
1) This was clearly stated as a drill.
and
2) Students were notified what the procedures were supposed to be in advance.
These clearly did not happen.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
let me get this straight then, your solution is to put a gun in teachers hands ? oh boy, you MUST be american.
Now, insurance and pooling will eventually spread the cost back to the folks that pay the premiums, and an event like this might spike up rates, but as far as that one district is concerned, it probably pays its $1 million, and its share of the next $4 million or so. There might be a short term increase in the cost of the $20 million in excess of $5 million, or there might not.
Go nuts with a hammer -- kill one-two people.
Go nuts with a gun -- kill 30 people.
See the problem with your logic?
I had a teacher do this to a class but it was college not elementary. The situation was as follows; an irate student walked in an complained loudly to the teacher in front of her class. It was loud enough that some students in the class began to remove the student from the room. After the irate student left, the teacher looked upset and asked that everyone write down what they saw. When everyone handed in their version of the events the teacher informed the class that it was a stunt; much to everyone's surprise to say the least. The purpose of the stunt was to compare everyone's recount of the events; which were quite varied. Again, this was a college course and not elementary.
A hand up and a foot on every chest...
According to some other accounts, this was not a drill at all -- after all, before a drill, you're told what to do -- that's the point of it. One article stated, "According to the school, it's tradition for the staff to play a prank on the kids during the last night of the camping trip. In this case, the teachers had hoped to use the prank as a learning tool. "We got together and discussed what we would have done in a real situation," said Assistant Principal Don Bartch."
And this is even more insidious than a "school drill" because this was a camping trip, the kids are in an unfamiliar area.
You kind of wonder if, next year, the kids might not just pull a similar prank on the teachers the night before the last night. I wonder how they would like it.
those who are incompetent, i.e. those who merely think that they're responsible and upstanding, but who in reality aren't. The tragic thing is that the more incompetent you are at something, the more likely you are to be bad at judging your own skills (a pretty famous study was done on this; can't remember the title though -- you might want to try google). That is a recipe for disaster when mistakes can have fatal consequences.
HAND.
A whole lot of realism right up front isn't always a good thing when you're training for contingencies. I could see the logic if the teachers had gone through an incremental training process with increasing realism and randomness. If their intent was to terrorize young kids while minimizing the learning value of the drill, then, Mission Accomplished!
We need to arm kids before they go to school in the morning. How would you feel as a parent, knowing that your kid is at school without his automatic weapons? As we all know, gunman attacks are ten a penny nowdays, happening up 19 times a day in each school, what if your kid was the only one who can't return fire? "Easy target!", I hear you cry!
I personally wont let little Johnny leave for school without his Heckler & Koch MP5, extra ammunition, and frag grenades. It pays to be safe.
Better yet, lets just invade another country...
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
Late 50's, early 60's, I think, my father was just starting out as a high school teacher. He taught psycology. His friend, who later became the Principal of the local middle school, helped him with a little "test" he planned - and it did involve a fake blood pack.
Actually, it was real blood. Pig's blood. Anyway....
It was test day, and on the test was a strange question, way down towards the end - "#36 What has just been released into your body?" Plan was to do something shocking and then ask them to answer question #36; correct answer is "adrenaline" of course.
So the students are quietly taking their test, my father sitting at his desk, when in walks his friend dressed as a mafia character; brim hat, dark glasses, pin stripes... He says, "You Smith?" as tho he doesn't know him, and then pulls out a (fake) gun, says, "Nobody give my kid an F and gets away with it," unloads some caps for the bang bang sound, my dad slaps his chest bursting the blood bag and falls dramatically behind his desk.
When retelling this story, my dad says that he was so nervous that he'd make a fool of himself, that his students were nearly adults (only seniors are allowed to take the psychology elective), and as he twitched a little behind his desk he thought he'd blown it because he didn't hear anything. No guffaws, no shrieking... nothing. So he jumps up expecting to tell them to answer question #36, but stops short when he sees the carnage in front of him.
Blood had splattered on three students in the front row. One girl, who caught a great deal of it, was in catatonic shock so med techs and an ambulance had to be called in. Big, bad football players had pissed their pants. Several had thrown up or passed out. Everyone, I mean *everyone* was seriously damaged. They did not complete the test, nor the rest of the school day.
He almost lost his job, but since he was new the administration chalked it up to being green and inexperienced. From then on he just uses a couple of firecrackers to get his kids to experience shock adrenaline and learn about that particular facet of psychology known as "fight or flight" - which is very different than "trauma" by any definition.
what makes it ok to hold a loaded gun to someone's head with apparent intention to shoot and then simply saying "just kidding!"? nothing, it is not ok. what separates the danger posed by a cobra without venom sacs and a "complete" cobra? it doesn't matter what the real conditions are, if the general perception is danger, the situation is dangerous. if i see someone running at me with a knife and i have a loaded gun, odds are really good that i'll shoot first and as questions later. when someone makes me decide, under duress, between two lives, i'll choose mine.
if someone had died (teacher or student), i think this would be viewed as an attack, a poorly staged and planned one, but a real threat and punishments would be doled out.
"Think of the children!" has never been more appropriate
Nuclear weapons don't kill people. People kill people.
I'm with a couple of these other posters. If a student had done this, it would have been "call the police, kick him out school, insist on psychological counseling". Teachers do this and "appropriate action will be taken". BS. Why? Just because they are teachers? Or adults? or both? Zero tolerance is stupid to begin with. It's complete BS for teachers to be permitted this type of behavior, but a kid tells a friend he wants to shoot the school bully gets interrogated like he's Osama Bin Ladin. Whether this is a good idea or not is not near the issue of the inherent unfairness in assuming a teacher is any more trustworthy than a student based on job or age...they aren't.
I'll be enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it
Why are we terrorizing students? Is this teaching them anything other than "Be scared and don't trust anyone"?
http://timcol6.freehostia.com/
How is this "News for Nerds?"
What's nerdy about it??
Contrary to what most people say, the most dangerous weather in the world is not the hurricane or the lightning or even the monsoon. It's a fire riding on a tornado's back, just burning and blowing over everything they see.
[With apologies to the pseudonymous great.
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
Sure, it was a bad idea. But the intentions were good (even if the idea itself was really bad), and nobody was actually hurt, and nobody was even really likely to be hurt. (Though no matter where done, I'd be very wary of a kid who brought a gun to school and decided to use it to defend himself and his classmates! Hopefully not in elementary school, but it does happen.)
Ok, some kids might need some therapy, and will be `scarred for life' (at least the lawyers will say so), but nobody was actually hurt, so I don't see this costing *that* much money. Though any time any of these kids acts out in the future, the lawyers will point back at this incident and say this is the cause of it ... perhaps you're more right than I give you credit for.
HOWEVER, it could be that this is small tempest in a large teapot; if the "campfire prank" version of the incident is accurate (and it does ring true, or at least true-ish), I hope that any idiot lawsuits get squashed like bugs.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
With the correct punctuation the tables are turned.
Teachers Fake. Gunmen Attack!
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
I'd think that kids who are gathered in large babysitting facilities like American public schools should be taught to be more engaged and aware of their surroundings generally -- there really ought to be more "bad event" drills, done matter-of-factly.
I don't know if this was a drill, an unexpected practical joke, an *expected* practical joke, or what -- the spin machine is still whirling, but "semi-expected practical joke" is seeming about right at this point. But let's say it was a drill, for the sake of argument (because that's the best possible scenario); in that case, it was badly done, and didn't really do much except prove that the kids were docile and compliant.
It would have been more responsible to a) prepare the kids first; a fire drill, well, done, is to reduce the stress of an actual fire, not to cause panic b) debrief them afterwards about what could or should have been done differently.
Unless someone believes we've seen the last school shooting / bombing / hostage situation worldwide, it makes sense to consider such things at least momentarily as part of a school safety plan. That doesn't mean obsessing over the things Schneier calls "movie plot scenarios" -- any more than "Backdraft" being about fires means that it's unreasonable to consider the risk of fire.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Okay how many people a year get killed by a gunman walking into a school, office, or shopping mall in the US?
How many people would drills like this save if every sixth grader did the best possible thing in that situation? And I for the life of me don't know what the best possible thing a sixth grader could do!
Now how many people a year drown in swimming pools? Die from lung cancer. Die from heart attacks and stroke. Die in car accidents?
Yes a school shooting is all very dramatic and makes the news but the threat to lives is actually very low.
The time effort and money would be better spent teaching people how to swim, eat right, not smoke, exercise, and to drive a car.
So yes this is dumb and a waste of effort on just about every level.
BTW if they really wanted to do something to prevent school shooting they should work on stopping bullying and teaching people how to be nice to one another. Again not as easy or as sexy and a mass murder drill but probably more more productive in the long run.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
In Soviet Russia, teachers shoot YOU!
"and nobody was actually hurt, and nobody was even really likely to be hurt"
Have you ever heard about psychological damage?
DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
When soldiers with years of training in an enviroment where you're taught, often even brainwashed in how to kill, still manage to freeze up when it comes to shooting the enemy what makes you think a teacher would be capable of doing it?
Please, enough with the "soldiers are brainwashed" crap. Every time there's a gun argument on this forum, someone has to throw that out there.
I was taught to respect guns and use them responsibly from a young age, and they don't bother me. I served in the military, I'm a competent shooter, and now I carry a weapon in civilian life. All of those things are / were BY CHOICE. People in the service are not mindless automatons, no matter how much it makes you feel better to paint them that way.
It's easy to be an internet hero of course, but people who truly do manage to be heroes in real life are few and far between, it's not something you can choose to be, it's a case of being in the right place at the right time, being able to overcome your instinct to escape and then finally being able to actually carry out the plan - sadly many that do get this far even end up failing, all to often making the problem worse.
I can't for the life of me remember which school it was, but there was a high school shooting a couple years back (not Columbine) in the U.S. The shooter was stopped when another student, who got shot in the process, tackled and disarmed the shooter. He stood up and DID something, rather than hide under a desk to wait for the shooter to decide his fate. That bravery saved a lot of other kids.
Now every person is entitled to decide their own course of action in that circumstance. But for me, I'd rather be proactive if the opportunity presented itself. Granted you have more options if you're armed, but I can't fathom waiting around to be executed.
It pisses me off when people absolve themselves of any personal responsibility over their own safety, citing that as a job for law enforcement. I don't advocate taking the law into your own hands, but in an emergency situation, citizens are often the fastest means of response.
You wouldn't stand around waiting for medics to arrive if your professor was having a heart attack. You'd start CPR.
But perhaps I'm just being cynical when I don't think that `thinking, for a little while, that you might die very soon' is worse than, say, losing a leg. Or an arm. Or actually dying. Yes, they're elementary kids, think of the children, etc.
But I'm sure the lawyers will have a field day with this.
"Person on person crime goes down, and the only people less safe are the criminals." I think that Scott Tenorman's parents might have had a different take on this statement if they were alive to tell us. Cheers, end15 P.S. You insensitive clod!
All glory to the Hypnotoad!
Were they bored or just like being in control?
no, the teachers are allowed to do this sort of stuff. they don't play video games.
George W. Bush, March 17, 2003
Just sayin'...
You can't take the sky from me...
If I'm not mistaken: the VT-shooter first shot a few students, then took the time to walk to somewhere else (dunno what), then HOURS LATER shot two dozen studentsmore. Wouldn't more lives be saved if everyone would've been informed after the first few killings, so that the campus could've been evacuated?! Me thinks miscommunications is here the problem, not the teachers not carrying weapons.h .campus/frameset.exclude.html cause I cannot be bothered. 'Yes, we emailed (..) a lot of students. No not immediately, that there had been a shooting, and the killer was still running free on the campus. Yes, they really should've read their mail, we might have sent it a bit late-ish. But the students should've carried weapons, that would have solved the problem, yes, that's it, it's the lack of weapons on campus. More questions?' [/sarcasm] No I don't have a fire-arm, yes I do teach. Both facts are appreciated.
copypaste the url, it's a popup, and http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/0704/popup.vtec
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
For all the discussion about Teachers or other persons being able to carry arms to prevent more school shootings, what about the teachers, or each class being equipped with a tazer. (yes, I know in the odd case they are fatal too) It doesn't hold up to a gun in a one-on-one fight, but it would provide some means to fight back that would not lead to false deaths.
Yes I know having a tazer and a room full of high-school kids is asking for a tough time for the class nerd.
I love it how alot of people on the Internet claim they will automatically go 'die hard' on the rampaging shooters if they were there. I have never served in the military, never (thankfully) have my life threatened by someone, never been in the same situation as those in VT. The question is, have you? I consider myself reasonably courageous, I know martial arts, but don't we tend to over estimate our capabilities, even if we're carrying a gun. If I was to find myself in the same situation as at the VT, I would probably piss my pants and run away if I can. I would probably put myself first and forget the others. The military takes 6 month to drill people to overcome their natural aversion to killing and to be killed. Do you think you will have the same reflexes, proficiency and tactical knowhow without the same training? So, before others like you spew out more macho talk and dream of becoming heroes, take stock of your own capabilities. Will you make the ultimate sacrifice? Will you put yourself in the line of fire to save people you barely know while equally knowing that you might leave your wife and children forever? Will you accept the responsibility if by your actions, you have made the situation worse?
BUT DAMMIT I WILL DECIDE WHEN AND HOW MY 2 CHILDREN LEARN THIS! NOT YOU! NOT SOME ROGUE TEACHER!
Preventing unconscionable acts like this is not over protecting our children. Yes, children will face times of emotional distress and
They are children -they will quickly learn and know how to react and they will become stronger and stronger (if you have a family shaping those conflicts correctly, of course)
But this atrocity is not simply emotional distress or conflict it is NOT indicative of the type of emotional distress and situations that people face regularly as a part of life. This is a cruel subjection of children to a emotionally and psychologically TRAUMATIC experience.
You want to see what kind of damage this insanity, that you seem eager to justify, can do? Go and talk to the kids that were at Columbine. For that matter, why don't you look up and see what effect any of these school shootings have had? And pay close attention to those that occurred at elementary schools. And before you go and cite some post in this thread where 'Joe Bob' says that something similar didn't have any effect on him in no way precludes it from having a dramatic effect on others. Do just a tad bit of research before you open your mouth and utter uninformed and possibly damaging opinions. Skim over this article on emotional and psychological trauma. Read the common elements of a traumatic situation: 1) it was unexpected 2)the person was unprepared 3) there was nothing the person could do to prevent it from happening. A key here is that it doesn't have to be real threat to life but is perceived to be real. Look at the table of effects that this can have.
Are you advocating subjecting children to this? Or did you just knee jerk and spew a poorly thought out opinion taking an easily agreed to premise of not sheltering children from reality and using it completely inappropriately?
And if you want to be so arrogant as to challenge this material or these concepts surrounding the impact of traumatic events I'll be happy to introduce you to a couple war buddies that will set you straight. Or a couple professors I know in the Psych department who practiced child psychology for several years prior to teaching. I'm sure they could quickly point you to plenty of sound research (i.e. not baseless opinions) on this topic in addition to their own observations.
PREPARING my child for these situations is different from intentionally CREATING a NEEDLESS traumatic experience!! Why in hell would I purposefully traumatize them in a calculated way?!?! That's just sick, wrong and stupid.
This is a SCHOOL where I expect that teachers behave ETHICALLY and follow the mandate they have been given. They are there to provide knowledge and understanding of the world around them. And at times this means teaching students to be prepared for dangerous situations. But fire drills, tornado drills (historically bomb drills) are not used to scare the sh*&t out of the kids but to give them the practice at doing the things that will redu
M. Gregory Thomas(tm), Network Redundancy Administrator;
Mundt Administration of Network Redundancy:
You want a bunch of men in their municipal-police and societal Clothing to act like saboteurs and assasins to affront and corrupt these young Students of the law that are clearly not prepared or not studied to defend from such act of legal pederasty? If so, then I'll be the first to the local high-school with my Whip and intent to correct those debilitated men of presumed Actorship from their teachers. They can learn to act like they are crying and do it well, just for the unknown day they may need to act for the police to act like terrorists -- until the terrorists act like police and reciprocate the Actorship to act like terrorists once again. The same people that advocate to be mindfully prepared, competant, and independant by such Actors, are the ones that demand submittance to the services when they prevail from what little support society pretended to offer to assist in such quick situations. I'm surprised the URL in the Slashdot article, Chicago Tribute has not disappeared or cleared yet. When things like this happens, the brave journalists are the ones to Sound the alarm by their post in the morning; but whomever waits to read it, will find the articles are destroyed or removed elsewhere by the same corruptors they spoke against.
Seatle Post-Intelligencer carried an article on Actors preying on children in the same way, scars for life, and the Article is gone (but I'll quote it {
} Even All Headline News hosted a report of the same contemptuous assault and battery of children, and now even their Article is gone.
Sure, they could be helping to *stimulate* those young minds into submittance, but they are also corrupting the public record of these events; the assault of the presumed-Actors moving to the commercial Scribes and non-commercial editors and their Book-keepers to CORRUPT the complete accounts and Rolls of those events. I find it stimulating that the only branches of society that could store, recollect, and preserve such evidence of terrorism are the same that are accused to be "schizzophrenic", "crazies", and "conspiracy theorists" yet they are not causing any tort or tresspass by their conservatorship over said records; StopTheDrugWar is one such persevered embalmer of these record of non-pretend raids on schools, having no difference between that of Actors and the 'tended drug raids. Even as far back as 2003 there was a video that gets posted with an article of same subjective pretended Raids and non-pretended Actors, but eventually is deleted. It makes its way around, here it is again of Stratford High School at Goose Creek. I have a couple more to reference of the same feet of non-pretend Actors, like this horrible creature, and yet another
without prejudice
This brings back the good old days of my youth and the nuclear bomb drills we had.. Everybody made their way, peacefully and in an orderly fashion, into the hallway, faced the inner wall and shielded their eyes against what light from the flash of the nuclear blast would have made its way there.
At first I thought they were talking about a high school. Surely no-one would do this to elementary school students. Then I realized: That school is an elementary school....IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD!!! The "teachers" were lucky none of the kids were packing. They'll be even luckier if no students (or parents) bring a gun to school in the next week or two.
Thank the gods we home school. I'm glad my immediate neighbors are zoned for the other elementary school in the neighborhood.
" Bang! You're dead, Tweek."
"You failed the test, son. Didn't I tell you not to open the door for anybody except your mother and I?"
"Alright, now go to bed and get some rest."
- Episode 611: Child Abduction is Not Funny
What happens if some kid freaks out and defends himself ? Does he get in trouble?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It's pretty sick that you seem to be trivializing scaring children half to death. How would *you* feel if you were having a family picnic (ie, in a public setting) and some pranksters decided to fake a gunman attack, and *your* children were crying and screaming for their lives?
Definitely not as bad as actually being shot, maimed, or murdered (what a stupid metric), but something that should definitely put the pranksters legally vulnerable to criminal charges and/or punitive damages.
This is one of those situations where the parents should be able to sue the offending teachers for the right to apply corporal punishment. The relevant parents should get to physically beat these idiots. Alternately, a good tarring and feathering would be a good alternate punishment.
These teachers need to directly punished. They need to stand as examples to the next idiot.
Put the tarring and feathering on youtube as a warning to the rest of them.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I say we stage a *fake* home invasion for each of the staff members involved
My friend told me that when he went to a Catholic high school, he had one teacher who was always really serious, a real hard ass who would say things like, "You kids need to know what kind of world is out there. Be serious. There's more to life than just who is going to the school dance," and such. One morning when all the students had came in he said in a really serious voice, "World War III just started this morning," and made it seem like the Soviet Union had declared war and the bombs were on their way. (This was during the Cold War.) Needless to say, after everyone was scared gutless at the prospect of nuclear annihilation, he admitted it was all a stunt to get them to think more about whether they're ready to meet the afterlife and such. It was really unexpected though, because none of the students thought that the teacher would ever be the type to pull a prank or a joke.
My friend ended up getting MAs in religion and philosophy, so I guess maybe it had an impact on him.
Someone please tag this wtf.
sometimes, nothing.
One of our local elementary schools recently did something similar. The difference - parents were made aware before hand of what was going on. Ours actually lasted hours, with the local SWAT team in on it, negotiating with the "intruder" as he slowly let students go. I am not sure if the students knew it was mock or not.
Mock drills are not a bad thing, the issue here is that the teachers did not clear this with parents or even other staff members (ie The Principal and school board) first. Probably some minor disciplanary actions should be taken. My guess is that this will be blown way out of proportion, teachers will not only be fired, but banned from ever teaching again. There should be something like a suspension of so many days without pay. While the intention was good, it was obviously very poor planning, probably a spur of the moment decision.
For all you know, those thirty-odd victims include any number of people who tried exactly that. And didn't live to tell about it.
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
With all the clout of the media and slashdoters, I find it amazing that no one is willing to identify who these staffers (idiots) were. (S'cuse me, "alledged" idiots)
I can't believe the number of Hero delusions in the thread. Everybody's a big hero. 'I'd have rushed that guy at VT'... 'I can't believe no one rushed that guy at VT'.
You're all F'n pathetic; legends in your own minds. You'd be the first ones hiding behind the women.
If a guy walks in and methodically starts shooting at everyone in a classroom, you put your head down or you get shot. This wasn't chaos, he walked in calmly and started picking people off. Throw a book at him? Give me a F'n break you morons.
The worst situtation would be that the gunman only killed some people in each class. If that was the case, and I believe it was, it was only the ones who didn't duck fast enough or hide well enough who are dead now. Maybe someone did try to attack him, I don't know that any better than any of you. I do know with some degree of certainty that if anyone did, their the ones who are dead.
Teach the kids to rush gunmen??? They're F'n KIDS!! Hey buddy, your kid or your little brother first. How's that sound? Dumbass.
I don't have children but if my kid's teachers threatend to shoot my kid while he was away from home, I'd be really torn between suing them into oblivian or showing up at school with a gun and sticking it in their mouth. I wonder what kind of lesson they'd learn from believing I was going to splatter their cherry cobbler all over the wall?
I'm not litigious or particulary violent but this story pisses me off to no end. I've got nieces and nephews. If this happened to them there'd be hell to pay. Don't mistake this as emergency training, this was threatening the children with death even if the threat was not real. It was real to those kids.. that's the way they planned it.
Go put a replica in your waist band and threaten a cop's life.. see if they laugh it off as 'preparation and training' for the police.
I'm not feeling witty so bite me
http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2 0070514/NEWS04/705140375
"Throughout the week, the students had been anticipating a typical "campfire" prank from the teachers. The children knew that this was a traditional experience from hearing about previous excursions to the same location by former sixth graders. The lead teacher made comments about this coming "prank" on several occasions that week."
The way that the American media (Fox, CNN) sensationalise events / encourage fear for the purpose of ratings really sickens me.
You've constructed a careful counterexample to the GP's point.
... it is based entirely on fear and conjecture, from both sides, with no real data. Ever. Argh.
The question is, how likely is it? If one can construct hypothetical examples and pretend they are common occurrences, then you can disprove any argument.
That's the problem with this whole argument - on both sides. When people lawfully carry guns, there are examples of both accidents (like this) and people successfully defending themselves and thus stopping rampages like the one that happened in VA.
Unless we know how *often* these things occur, we cannot do a reasonable cost-benefit analysis. And there is no good, objective research because the issue is so socially loaded that what little research exists is horrendously biased for one side or the other. This is my deepest frustration with the entire discussion of "gun control"
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
reference to the short movie says already enough about ponies ...
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
With the teacher's permission, I set a H2S generator at the front of the classroom to demonstrate diffusion to a bunch of grade 8 students. Mostly went well ... except for one kid that really took it badly and had trouble breathing etc (I suspect more panic than physical effects) and I realised that this probably wasn't a good thing to repeat, since technically H2S is a toxic gas. Sure enough, a few years later a school teacher (not the same school or teacher, just someone else trying the same dumb thing) is on the news, in trouble for 'poisoning' half her students using H2S.
Then there was the kid that scoffed a largish volume of butyric acid (think of "essence of sour milk") and went really green. His fault for not following simple directions. Now THAT was a funny one.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
The OP IS American, as far as I can tell. But you have, with your inability to either THINK or allow for the fact that possibly, just fractionally possibly, Americans (or anyone else for that matter), might be capable of viewing their own country critically.
i wonder if someone staged a "mock buglary" or a "mock mugging" on one of those teachers, under the exact same pretenses of being prepared or emergencies, i wonder if those same teachers would still think a "mock shooting" is such a really peachy idea.
serioualy tho, do those teachers even have 2 brain cells to rub together sideways? i think just about anyone knows if you lock small children in a dark room and tell them someone with a gun is after them, those kids are gonna freak the F out! heck...most adults would too....me included....
Had a student done this, there wouldn't still be a question of taking disciplinary action or not. He'd be in juvie waiting for his court date.
One wonders, what would that teacher in the black hoodie have done if one or more students decided they could take him out by surprise? (What if they DID take him out?)
Apparently, they "forgot" that if you believe it's real, it has the same lasting psychological effects as a real incident. I'd say the shcool is on the hook for a lot of therepy for PTSD.
At this point, I'd be more worried about blowing it out of porportion, and get the kids who need it some professional attention. Some teachers showed bad judgement, but they were trying to do the right thing. They're not terrorists, or murderers
The lawyers, parents, and you, apparently, on the other hand, will blow this out of porportion. It's the American way -- somebody does you (or your family) wrong, and you are entitled to be set for life. All you have to do is sue, and use terms like `psychological damage', `pain and suffering', `terrorism', `think of the children', etc.
But the lawyers, coaching the kids for what to say on the witness stand -- that's pretty much the opposite of the attention they need. But it's what makes the money.
This seems more like a prank and less of a drill...
Isn't this type of thing considered terrorism? I mean c'mon. If a couple of kids outside of school were to pull something like this, they'd be labeled terrorists and prosecuted as such. Why should this be any different for employees of a school?
The school has decided to suspend the teacher and assistant principle in charge of the "drill" were suspended. IMHO, I don't think that's any where near severe enough. And not to mention the fact that one of them was an assistant principal. You'd think he'd have slightly better judgement. Apparently that's not taught in Tennessee (I kid).
Geeks strike again 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Well this attitude pretty much sums up the problem, too many people think life is like counterstrike, or die hard or whatever.
Survival of the fittest. Kill or be killed. Always has been, always will be, and it will NEVER change. That is the natural order of things. The entire planet is practically a counterstrike field. Rats vs snakes, deer vs wolves, humans vs the planet.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I won't trust either, the stranger nor the prankster, but I will in both cases try to find out if it's real. I will stay away from people, will watch every single person for signs of being said shooter and of course of signs of panic. And I will listen for gunshots. If I can't find any indication that the information is true, I will most likely ignore it.
But that's me. A 30+ year old adult person who has memories, knowledge, experience and the ability to construct scenarious based on those. A kid has none of those and thus cannot find out whether the information is true or false. On the other hand, your parents (i.e. the people you most likely trust the most, if not something's REALLY running wrong) told you to heed your teacher's guidance and especially their warning. And those people just told you there's a gunman.
As a kid, you have no other option but to believe it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Back in my Sixth grade, at Wooddale Middle School in Memphis, about 1/4 of the students in that grade had a weapon of some sort, from tiny .22 pistols to large bowie knives. If that had happened here in my time, it'd be World War III, and I guarantee you there wouldn't be any aggressors left. Being in school that was a deadzone for Crips, Bloods, Gangsta Disciples, and Vice Lords, you came to school with something, even if it was pepper spray or a few sharpened sticks to shank someone with.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I love it when two opposing ideas finally clash, and no one has yet to point it out. Sheesh. When the demand for something (like teachers) goes sky high, the level of quality that is deemed acceptable plummets.
/rant
Allow me to expound upon my point with an outlined example of causality;
Cause: We have had an exponentially growing need for educational facilities and teachers since I was a wee lad (~1999). This results in more and more kickbacks, benefits, whatever-they-call-it for anyone willing to put up with 100+ kinder gardeners per day, but no massive increase in salary. The demand for teachers has gone up sharply and as a result, the standards for said educators have dropped.
Effect: Absolutely asinine crap like this happens, and starts to happen more frequently over and over and over and over. Let's throw out a few predictions here;
Sometime this summer, a high school volleyball coach will host a topless car wash to raise money so the girls can go to state. She will insist that all participating students were over 18, and that her intentions were good, yet she will be fired. Media will drudge up "evidence" about her sexual orientation.
There will be another school shooting, this time by a teacher/coach/superintendent trying to breakup a fight by firing into the air/crowd and maiming a student/bum/policeman. If the assailant is a middle-aged white guy, he will have enough money to bury this and fade away from the media. When he dies of old age, his memoirs will be published and he will be remembered as a hero. Teachers will finally be able to carry guns to class.
Somewhere a teacher will finally have had it with childish dress codes and zero tolerance policies in public schools. Will be arrested for giving out free condoms for every dime bag of weed sold during his classes. I'm going to guess this one will be an art/music instructor of some sort.
You may now slap me with some Matrix jokes, maybe a few dated references to actual events outlined here.
"When I am king, you will be first against the wall..."
Paranoid students smuggle concealed guns into school. ... a long time.
Teachers execute surprise 'terror drill'.
Terrified students shoot teachers.
School's out for
I couldn't have done it without Alice Cooper and Ted Nugent.
RR
Lucky one of the students did not kill an attacker. Its always dangerous to horse around like that because someone might take your serious... and kill you.
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
Once again, a completely correct response gets scored as troll. In other Slashdot news, a teacher forces student to sit in corner with dunce cap.
A single school district is very unlikely to buy the market limit. They might have half that amount, say $25 million. Claims involving kids can be extraordinarily expensive; the serious one's involving death or quadraplegia can run excess of $10 million on occasion. Class actions, particularly one's that piss off juries, could possibly (although I agree that it is not likely) aggregate up to the policy limit. Particularly in Texas, which has a bit of a reputation in this area.
If someone kicked in the door and started shooting and killing people I know I'd probably freeze up.
Freezing up is a mental reaction to an unexpected situation. It's difficult to make rational decisions under pressure, and it becomes more difficult to make rational decisions under extreme stress. Without some framework to weed out ideas, your brain has to consider everything, and chokes on the raw data. Your brain can be trained to deal more effectively with crises, but steps must be taken in advance to do it.
Establishing a mental framework to deal with any given problem is critical. Consider the difference in outcomes for an airline passenger who paid enough attention during the safety briefing to think "OK, my exit door priorities are there, three rows up-right, then there eight rows back or there left, and I'll either be going down a slide or off the wing" versus "Oh my god, the plane just crashed, what do I do?" when the plane cabin will be non-survivable ninety seconds after impact? How about with a fractured arm? Cabin filled with smoke, three foot visibility? Injured and incapacitated seatmate?
Spending five seconds to establish a default plan of action when you're not already in a stress situation frees your mind to actually respond to what's happening around you.
That's why even a modicum of forethought/training/mental preparation is literally priceless when confronted with an unexpected and potentially-lethal situation. Successful militaries have known this for a very long time.
Situational awareness and low-level crisis planning are valuable habits to acquire, and fun to practice.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
I agree with someone up above -- we're losing our survival instincts. These same instincts used to tell us when maximum survival results from a few individuals putting themselves at risk to prevent a greater risk to the whole. But if you designate people as "prey", they will behave like prey -- and will then find it difficult or impossible to fight back. Our nanny state has defined us as prey.
When I was a kid, if someone had threatened a schoolroom with a gun, the nearest dozen strapping lads would have jumped him and taken him down (and probably beaten him senseless). Yeah, maybe the first one gets shot and killed in the process. But no one else dies.
I've played live "killer games" where a few folks are designated "predators" and everyone else as "prey". When I'm among the hunted, my own first instinct is to organize an offense against the predators and take them out. The hardest part is getting anyone else to go along with it -- like I said, if you tell people they are prey, most will react accordingly. Not many have strong enough predator and pack instincts to resist the mindless fear that results from being regarded as prey.
These very same people, if told they are now predators, will react accordingly, and work cooperatively to eliminate threats.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
I wonder what my odds are of being shot and killed in school.
75,780,000 enrolled in school (U.S. census)
290,850,005 U.S. population (U.S. National Safety Council)
75,780,000 / 290,850,005 = 0.26 portion of US population in school
77.6 years life expectancy (U.S. National Safety Council)
50 murdered by gunmen while in school per year (my generous guess)
290,850,005 / 50 = 5,817,000 one year odds for US individual
(290,850,005 / 50) / 0.26 = 22,373,077 one year odds for US student
(290,850,005 / 50) / 77.6 = 74,961 lifetime odds for US individual
((290,850,005 / 50) / 77.6) / 0.26 = 288,311 lifetime odds for US individual while student
See other odds of death due to injury here:
http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm
I am not great at stats and math, but it seems that a person's odds of being killed by lightning are much better than his odds of being shot and killed in school.
Try it on my kids and see just how bad it is for you! I have had to do therapy with kids who have been traumatized. These teachers deserve to go to prison for child abuse and terrorism! You obviously do not have children, take a hint and don't! You would SUCK as a parent!
I GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE RATINGS!
I may be wrong on this, but for me it would be no matter of money. The money comes out of my taxes anyway, either in higher taxes for higher insurance or some other way.
I would want those teachers! They need to do some time behind bars! There is NO excuse for child abuse either physical OR mental abuse.
a free shot is wasted by a wimp
if you can't hit him hard enough, or don't know how hard you can hit him,
don't bother picking up the 2x4
Free clue -- I never said it was a good idea what the teachers did.
Actually, I have three. But if somebody did scare them, I wouldn't see it as an opportunity to make sure I'm `set for life'. Perhaps this makes me an inferior parent to you -- but I do think it makes me a superior human being. Are you sure you don't chase ambulances for a living?For the record, what the teachers did doesn't fit the definition of terrorism. But it doesn't surprise me one bit that you scream `terrorism'.
1) unlawful has not been proven yet.2) the intention was not to intimidate or coerce anybody
3)
I doubt anybody will even be charged for this. Teachers will probably lose their jobs (if they haven't already -- so far, a principal and teacher have been suspended), lawsuits will probably be filed, children will get therapy, children will be coached by lawyers on just what to say to the nice judges ... but I doubt anybody will go to jail for terrorism or child abuse.