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Distrowatch says there are 113 alternative distros you can use without systemd

If you like Debian, you use Devuan.
If you like Arch, you use Artix.
Slackware was never tainted, etc...

What are you waiting for? The main idiot is not even Poettering, its the Distro leaders that choose to force you to use it. Of course Fedora is doomed being a Red Hat project...

Is it a coincidence that everything made by Poettering behaves more or less the same buggy and bloated way? You think pulseaudio is an example of excellence? What about avahi and the other crud he made? Just say no to his mindset and rid your system of anything made by him.

http://without-systemd.org/ Take a stand against systemd!

This website's got a pretty good list. I think it's where I found out about Devuan, which I now use.

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

So, abandon systemd? There is nearly a hundred distros NOT using it, what are you waiting for? http://without-systemd.org/

SystemD:

Linux: Why do people hate systemd? (Jan 18, 2017 )

List of articles critical of systemd

Introducing SystemD without proper extended community discussion seemed to be a way for Red Hat to make money. Problems with SystemD? Pay Red Hat to help.

IBM:

What will be the effect of SystemD on IBM's reputation? Will SystemD damage IBM's reputation? Does IBM see SystemD as a way to make money? Will IBM be as socially dis-functional as Red Hat?

KDEvuan ... in case you like your KDE without systemd.

Systemd is easily avoidable. http://without-systemd.org/wik...

I'd like to be able to cleanly install a regular Debian/Redhat/Suse system and choose at install time what sort of init I want the machine to use. Kludges like those at http://without-systemd.org/ are nice, but let's have something that doesn't require such tinkering. Is that too hard to do? If so, why?

Why does Poettering still have a job pushing systemd and pulseaudio all the discord he's sown?

Then you need this:

http://without-systemd.org/wik...

Though you can't apparently do this with anything that needs X, because of udev2 issues, it works fine for plain headless servers. I have a number of these running. Just install a standard BASE system and then do the referenced items above, before installing anything on top of the base OS. Job done!

http://without-systemd.org/wik...">Too many reasons.

Not trying to start a flame war even remotely, but nothing in your reply refutes the fact that the licensing is why these companies choose the BSDs. They don't pick BSD for superiority; Legal likes BSD license because it's compatible with IP, while GPL inherently isn't. I'll even add Netflix into the company list: they use FreeBSD on very specific back-end machines (and very few of them), but everything else is Linux (this comes from someone who actually works there).

FreeBSD was a good solid OS in the 4.x days, possibly lingering into the 9.x days. 10.x onward are pretty bad (you need to follow commits and mailing lists to understand these claims. They are not without merit). One of the worst problems introduced in 10.x is how load average is completely unreliable, which is still there as of 12.x/HEAD, despite the problem being 100% reproducible on both bare metal and VMs. DragonflyBSD is more promising in the sense that it's based on the development approach of 4.x and massively improved to work with present-day systems, hardware, and needs (Matt Dillon was one of the first people to track down the Ryzen bug); several FreeBSD committers (src and ports) switched many years ago for a multitude of reasons (some political). Instead in FreeBSD, people focus on mission-critical things like breaking ABI compatibility because the word rendezvous was spelled rendevous. There are only a couple kernel developers who remain that are of high quality: Konstantin Belousov and John Baldwin are two main ones; Warner Losh still lingers somewhere and comments on proposed the quality of proposed commits, and Alexander Motin does good work on storage subsystems and ZFS but his other stuff is questionable. Go through svn-src-all sometime and you'll see the names are few and far between compared to olden days.

Modern Linux (I am talking about the kernel/OS, not userland, and not a distribution!) is substantially better, and actually supported by device vendors for device drivers and kernel-level software. I name some names later.

GNOME and KDE and Wayland aren't relevant to any of the companies I listed and what products they make that use BSD, apparently with the exception of Citrix (I'm only familiar with their NetScaler devices, which were originally from the company of the same name (Citrix bought them in 2005)). These companies are using BSD kernel and partial userland (i.e. not ports/packages), plus their own in-house-developed binaries.

systemd isn't a requirement for Linux (though I fully agree it's a travesty and should be abolished, and am also terrified of how fast it was adopted across so many major distros), but there are distros which don't use it. I will admit that the downside to using one of these less-known distros is that their general support is worse; for example, Devuan, the Debian fork that lacks systemd, has questionable ZFS support (and its ZFS maintainer is some guy who sounds like he should be on a hacker's IRC channel). I would really love to know why so many distros switched, including some which were server-focused; OpenRC really seems like it's suitable for both servers and desktops. As someone who had to migrate EC2 servers running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS with in-house Upstart scripts to 16.04 LTS, I've really learned to hate systemd. Hours of my life and time absolutely wasted. But the kernel is still good.

ifconfig is userland, not kernel, but I agree it's "deprecation" (for the ip(8) command) is silly, but this is a per-distro thing (many distros still include it). In contrast, remember when ISC tri

There are many cancerd-free distros. http://without-systemd.org/

Oblig: Why systemd shouldn't be used

Obligatory reference

More like Ubuntu? No Thanks. What a train wreck. They're still creating login problems and crap like that. Now I'm running Debian without systemd and life is good.

Consider switching to Devuan when Devuan Ascii is released.

Debian is going to make it harder and harder to stay away from systemd as new releases come out.

For example, the Debian packaging for redis dropped support for non-systemd init systems in Debian Buster (testing).

Note: Upstream redis still ships with support for SysV.

More like Ubuntu? No Thanks. What a train wreck. They're still creating login problems and crap like that. Now I'm running Debian without systemd and life is good.

* and everyone using Slackware, Artix, Devuan, the BSDs and every other Linux distro that has chosen a different init system. Apparently Patrick Volkerding is just a "troll" and you're the real Linux expert.

Or just uninstall systemd + reinstall sysvinit. It's not miserably complicated, though there are some additional steps (and things with hard systemd requirements won't work, but I feel like that's less of an issue):

http://without-systemd.org/wik...

That being said, I'm all for Devuan as a source of attrition for Debian, until they pull their heads back out of their butts. Shame there aren't enough takers to really raise enough concern from them.

Here's a good start for you, takes 5 seconds to google it:

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

Although I'm pretty sure that you're just going to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend harder.

See:
http://without-systemd.org/wik...

--Of course, if the hardware requires custom drivers that aren't in the Linus tree, I'd look elsewhere...

but i already have slackware14.2 fixed up nice the way i like it, and i am not wiping all that off to try out a 1.0 release, but still i have to say kudos to Devuan because i am one of those hardcoded systemD haters http://without-systemd.org/wik...

Not true. Here's a distro list: https://without-systemd.org/wi...

devuan is basically a mess I think...
use old established *nix's like slack and gentoo...

or check out others on http://without-systemd.org/wik...

Running 4.9 on 4 physical machines in my home. And also running 4.9 on over a dozen VMs in a datacenter without systemd.

There are a few distributions that don't push it down your throat. There are even a few others that offer (optional) alternative kernels and init systems.

Personally I use funtoo.

Take a look at www.without-systemd.org for more.

Here's a good list: http://without-systemd.org/wik...

BTW, I'm not talking about business use. Businesses have options to mitigate this update problem while staying with Windows 10 (albeit they aren't cheap).

http://without-systemd.org/wik...
http://jrigg.co.uk/linuxaudio/...
I did it, and it works perfectly if you don't use any Gnome & co. stuff.

Primary reason *I'm* moving away from FreeBSD (been using it since 1997): https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=173541 -- issue has existed since 10.x (last version I verified was 12.x). 9.x is now officially EoL'd.

I've also begun to witness strange intermittent performance problems with ZFS and mutt: extremely slow paging through mails (the mailbox is a classic UNIX mail spool/mbox, not Maildir); the ARC is 100% primed with said contents, and the issue simply goes away randomly but will reappear at some point in the near-to-late future. A full zpool scrub passes, absolutely no anomalies with the system otherwise; all server-class hardware. It's one of those things that is infuriating because there's no real explanation for why it's happening that one can immediately discern from sysctls.

As for Linux distros that don't use systemd, http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page is a common go-to, but I imagine that list will slowly over time have fewer and fewer entries (ex: CentOS). Sad situation, really.

many of the distros that utilize systemd are excellent (even if you consider systemd to be a flaw)

Sure they are excellent, but for how much longer?

I'll stick with Mint 17.3 until Devuan Ascii comes out.

A simple Google search could have told you that you're wrong.

your a big boy now, you can do it yourself
http://without-systemd.org/wik...
This is a text of the GahNew/Leenux Operating System

No you can't. That's why some users forked Debian and created Devuan (https://devuan.org/).

You can't what?

http://without-systemd.org/wik...

https://debiantalk.wordpress.c...

Devuan is still in beta, Slackware is here now but lacks the Debian package pool (I enjoy nice recent versions of packages that are widely tested with no dependency issues, I love apt), as well as a bunch of other fringe distros...

Personally I've settled on Mint for my desktop, as it has all the software I need, as well as Cinnamon, which is important to me as it remains committed to delivering a consistent desktop UI that won't change for the sake of change, as did Gnome and KDE. If I could get my Cinnamon fix on a non-systemd distro, along with other packages I use, I would move in a heartbeat.

Rosegarden, K3B, Handbrake, Kodi, Inkscape, Gimp, LibreOffice, Cinnamon... That's all I need.

Ever since that day I have understood exactly how systemd eschews the "do one thing do it well" practice, and that even though it seems like individual components of systemd are being developed that way, they still come together as one giant integrated service where one flaw can affect/leverage its other components in attack. In other scenarios you could compromise an individual tool, but maybe SELinux granular permissions could help you, or maybe issues with that individual tool could be addressed, but if something in systemd is affected you're basically fucked top to bottom until a solution or shim is found, it is an ugly situation.

Anyone else in this position? What are you trying?

yadda yadda yadda.

Linux does not "force" you into anything: systemd is still optional and many linux distros run perfectly well without systemd (including my old friend Slackware).

And if you really don't like Linux, there is always the BSD. Nope, no systemd there, no sirree.

So anyway... yeah, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Unfortunately, they built it on a fairly new OS, making it impossible to run on many still supported (and systemd free) distros, despite there being nothing that's really needed that only the newer distros provide.

Error: Package: skypeforlinux-1.1.0.21-1.x86_64 (/skypeforlinux-64-alpha)

                      Requires: libstdc++.so.6(GLIBCXX_3.4.15)(64bit)
Error: Package: skypeforlinux-1.1.0.21-1.x86_64 (/skypeforlinux-64-alpha)

                      Requires: libstdc++.so.6(CXXABI_1.3.5)(64bit)

Have you tried it on a systemd-free install of Debian 8?

http://without-systemd.org/wik...

There are plenty of distributions that don't use systemd. See link, but quite a few of them are based on Slackware and Gentoo. I use Void Linux personally.

My main dislike is just the scope creep, lack of choice (you used to be able to choose what login manager, device manager and system logger you wanted), and the mentality of systemd developers where they believe that one solution is just "better" and everyone should go with that route.

Someone collects links here: http://without-systemd.org/wik...

One major bug affecting Debian 8 is how systemd is the default init system, and it's not at all easy to switch to another init system (like sysvinit, or OpenRC, or one of the many other alternatives).

Its very easy to remove systemd from Debian 8

http://without-systemd.org/wik...

I do this ALL the time, never have problems.

He doesn't because it would probably be futile, and alerting others of bugs that would eventually be labelled as NOTABUG / WONTFIX certainly helps them avoid the crapware and its developers.

http://www.without-systemd.org... I count 64 distributions* without systemd. Install one of those. Oh you want to run without systemd on another distribution? Then why not become a senior maintainer and actually get your voice heard in discussions on where the distribution should head or better still fork it and run it the way you want.

*I'm on a bouncy train so make that 64 +/- 5 for difficulty in counting.

Maybe you're just selectively blind?

Before dictating what a user should do, you should check whether it will be a waste of time.

The interesting thing is that, it seems that systemd developers seem more ego-centered that other FOSS developers.

Certainly useful in warning other users or user wannabes, if giving out helpful information is repeatedly shown to be futile.

This perhaps?

Not a single [operating system listed at without-systemd] is likely to be the primary OS of a *BSD user or developer, and it is unlikely any have been developed by a *BSD user or developer.

Perhaps you had to leave before reading far enough, but the UNIX-like and derivatives section lists plenty of *BSD variants as well as the Solaris-derived OpenIndiana OS. The "Debian GNU/kFreeBSD" and "ubuntuBSD" entries, which combine GNU with the kernel from FreeBSD, look interesting.

The attack attack against Linux software like systemd is manufactured controversy by a small group of BSD's dressed up like concerned Linux users.

That's patently false.

I have been using Linux since the earliest versions, and have only ever casually installed *BSD just to see what was there, and I absolutely loathe systemd. All of the distros and distro-forks that have appeared at without-systemd are maintained and used by ... wait for it ... Linux developers and Linux users. Not a single one is likely to be the primary OS of a *BSD user or developer, and it is unlikely any have been developed by a *BSD user or developer.

Trying to turn this into a BSD vs Linux thing is just pathetic.

Non-systemd linux distributions, 67 of them: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Without Systemd Wiki: http://without-systemd.org/wik...

Sure.

Free/Open Source Operating systems without systemd in the default installation

GNU/Linux distributions

4MLinux (BusyBox)
Absolute Linux
Alpine Linux
Amazon Linux AMI
antiX
AUSTRUMI (Slackware based bootable live CD, to be run from RAM)
Calculate Linux
ConnochaetOS
Crux
DeLi(cate) Linux (legacy hardware)
Devuan
Dragora GNU/Linux Libre
Exe GNU/Linux
Funtoo Linux (Using OpenRC)
Gentoo Linux
While an option is provided to install systemd for those that want it, the default init system in Gentoo Linux as of May 2015 is OpenRC. If Portage is pulling in systemd, please read this Gentoo wiki article before removing Gentoo from this list. Other suggested reading, [1]
gNewSense GNU/Linux
GNU Guix
Linux from Scratch
Manjaro OpenRC Forum Wiki
Obarun (Arch/Runit)
Openwall GNU/*/Linux (Owl)
PCLinuxOS
Pisi Linux
Porteus
Puppy Linux
Refracta
RLSD
Sabotage Linux
Salix
Slackel
Slax
Slackware
Sorcerer Linux
Source Mage GNU/Linux (beta site)
SystemRescueCd (Gentoo/OpenRC based system rescue disk)
TLD Linux
TRIOS (Serbian)
Tiny Core Linux
TTYLinux
Vector Linux
Void Linux
Zenwalk

http://without-systemd.org/wik...

sadly the problems are not just systemd.

For starters check out this list of complaints.
Some of them might not matter to you or might be already corrected but surely some of them will stick.

I was convinced I don't want systemd on my computer when I've read Poettering calling su "a really broken concept" as a a rationale for making a su-replacement a part of systemd.
Other red flags I see are the scope of what systemd and its components are responsible for, the inability to get rid of it from most distros that adopted it and sudden disappearance of distros that are not based on it.
Add to it the hostility towards anyone complaining about it and you end up with a picture of a suspicious software that you probably don't want to run on your hardware.