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Especially if two planes hit by lightning dropped both towers and resulted in molten steel in the pile of rubble. Seeing as how its impossible for jet fuel to melt steel (jet fuel burns from 800F to 1500F depending on conditions) and that steel melts at 2750F. I would certainly hope it would be famous for violating the laws of physics.

..was to make sure that, no matter what the circumstances, there would be fighter jets available and put in the air to avoid any such incident.

I know that average Joe Doe may never have thought about planes flying into buildings, but apart from some 'crazy conspiracy nuts' who e.g. watched the first episode of the Lone Gunmen or those architects actually responsible for designing the WTC even the government officials must have been aware of scenarios in which hijacked planes would be flown into civilian buildings or nuclear plants.

In fact during the cold war certain government officials were even far more creative in finding ways to start a war based on false or fabricated evidence. A plan had been put forth to the government detailing how to create support for a war by laying false evidence (e.g. hijackings of civilian airplanes and attacking civilians by military aircraft). Those plans, due to Kennedy's refusal, have never been put into action, but they show what certain members of government (in this case up to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) were willing to do; imagine what might have happened if the president had instead been GW Bush back then..

The government is (or should be) concerned about and has the means to evaluate any potential thread against its citizens and act accordingly so that the citizens don't have to. Instead this administration has let four airplanes slip through that killed thousands of civilians and afterwards starts a campaign aided by the media to scare its citizens shitless as to what could happen next? (tm)

"you know I don't go for the official story because it's got so many holes. And I can't really go to much for those radical stories because they got, they're so shocking it drives me nuts. So... but I know there's grains of truth in everything there, and..."

-Rick Siegel, 9/11 Eyewitness, 48:11

00:03:12
1999. NORAD begins conducting exercises in which hijacked airliners are flown into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

00:03:20
June, 2000. The Department of Justice releases a terrorism manual, with the World Trade Center in crosshairs.

July 24th, 2001. Larry A. Silverstein, who already owned World Trade Center 7, signs a 3.2 billion dollar, 99-year lease on the entire World Trade Center complex, six weeks before 9-11. Included in the lease is a 3.5 billion dollar insurance policy specifically covering acts of terrorism.

There are also thousands of pictures and videos from the WTC site that are classified. If planes really brought down the towers, why would such classification be necessary? Also, just like in Oklahoma City, all the evidence from the WTC site was destroyed as quickly as possible. They could've saved the steel for analysis, and we'd know whether or not thermite (or some other explosive) was used to cut the core columns.

You might want to take another view on the 9/11 theories. The arguments you put forward are specious at best, mind you they are not uncommon arguments, but that does not make them correct.

A good primer can be found here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7501020220 921158523

Keep in mind that Penn and Teller use Ad Hominim attacks for 2 reasons. First, its funny, and the show has to be entertaining to some degree. Second, they can be sued for using words like: "Hoax" "Fraud" etc, but they cannot be sued for: "Bullshit" "Asshole" and "Motherfucker". So, keep that in mind.

Also, if you have had the misfortune to watch the movie "Loose Change" first or second edition, you might want to check out this link:

http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

It is "Loose Change 2nd ed." With added commentary pointing out the errors made in the movie. Keep in mind Popular Mechanics and a host of other publications have already soundly debunked these theories, and for more on loose change, a blow by blow HTML debunking can be found here:

http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/loose_change/i ntroduction.html

Remember, if you ever wonder about an issue, check out both sides and then decide for yourself. If you would like my suggestion into a few good books on how to do that (if you care) they are:

The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark - Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan
Why People Believe Wierd Things - Michael Schermer
Voodoo Science - Robert L. Park

A collection of excellent debunking links follows:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/12 27842.html
http://www.debunking911.com/
http://www.911myths.com/

Conclusion

The Murrah Federal Building was not destroyed by one sole truck bomb. The major factor in its destruction appears to have been detonation of explosives carefully placed at four critical junctures on supporting columns within the building.

The only possible reinforced concrete structural failure solely attributable to the truck bomb was the stripping out of the ceilings of the first and second floors in the "pit" area behind columns B4 and By. Even this may have been caused by a demolition charge at column B3.

It is truly unfortunate that a separate and independent bomb damage assessment was not made during the cleanup__before the building was demolished on May 23 and hundreds of truck loads of debris were hauled away, smashed down, and covered with dirt behind a security fence.

When the picture at Tab 4 was made, all evidence of demolition charges had been removed from the building site (i.e., the stubs of columns B3, A3, A5, A7 and the demolished junctures at the header with columns A3, A5 and A7.

All ambiguity with respect to the use of supplementing demolition charges and the type of truck used could be quickly resolved in the FBI were required to release the surveillance camera coverage of this terribly tragic event.

(from General Partin's conclusion at second link above, emphasis added)

Sorry - the last link was bad. it's http://911research.wtc7.net/ .

The entire structure was made of comparatively lightweight materials, and was essentially a hollow tube.

Wrong. The structure is made up of 47 box columns a yard wide, steel 4" thick at base. Look at the picture there and tell me that the building is "hollow" instead of "built with 47 incredibly dynamic, redundant supportive steel cores".

What would have been amazing would have been some sideways force that would have caused the structure(s) to do anything but move in accordance to gravity.

If you watch one of the hundreds of videos online you will see that the top of the South tower DID start to fall sideways, and then seemingly got pulverized into dust and debris, and THEN fell straight down with the rest of the building. Gravity doesn't work like that, especially when you're talking about a steel-core building. It doesn't just go straight down, not that evenly, not that precicely. And even if it did, the steel frames would have stayed up. You don't just assume that 47 steel box columns fall apart that easily. It's COMMON SENSE. You're acting like the building was made of legos.

But what the fire and stress did to the middle of the building was exactly a demolition crew would have done: weaken the centeral supporting structures all at the same time.

Wrong. Fire and stress would have weakened the central supporting structures unevenly, on those precise floors, causing random fallout and collapse. Demolition crews weaken the supporting structures precisely and evenly with cutter charges so the building falls straight down and doesn't hit much else. I'm not a demolition expert, but I do know that causing a building to fall straight down is an incredibly hard thing to do, and requires a LOT of precision, thought and research. You don't just shove a flying jet into the side of a building and expect the whole thing to fall straight down! Again, it's common sense when you think about the physics of a building.

Why is it people use the phrase "open your mind" when they mean "take what I'm saying, however ridiculous, on faith, because it makes my loony position feel better by having more people not point out how wrong I am, which takes the fun out of trying to blame my idealogical opponents for something that was done by other people entirely, whose sociopathic outlook I can't personally grasp, so I'd rather project a fictional one on my local political opponents?" Why is that, anyway?

I'm not saying "take what I'm saying" at all. I'm saying, make up your own mind. I'm not combatting your opinion. I'm speaking my own, and that is just as valid as you speaking your opinion. I'm just trying to give people a different view of what happened so they can make their own minds up, instead of hearing the SAME OLD STORIES of how it happened from the mainstream media.

Take a look at this. There is a lot of UN-BIASED, SCIENTIFIC research going on at this site. It's not done up by a bunch of whack-o conspiracy theorists, it's a place to do research and find the flaws in the NIST story based on FACT.

Like I said, open your mind instead of blindly believing the mass media and not taking anybody else's information into account. THEN make your decision.

We at the GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) would like to wish you seasons greetings on this most glorious day.

As we reach the fifth anniversary of the momentous destruction of two large ugly buildings by the highly trained agents of mossad (Israels notorious anti-gentile secret service), and the war against sandniggers everywhere that ensued, we have entered into what is widely recognised as a golden age of trolling. This could not have been possible without the assistance of YOU!

Without the glorious genocidal activites of hooknosed Jews, the gulliblity of pinko Slashbots soaking up whatever Michael Moore shits out, the whining of eurotrash clinging to the tattered remnants of Socialism, and of course, without the poorly washed Muslims who, as we speak, continue their holy and righteous Jihad against the evils of the Israeli Bus Service. Without these people, without you people, our jobs would be so much more taxing, and far less rewarding.

As your family gathers around the Osama Tree to exchange your gifts of toy Boeings and charred Firemen, we at the GNAA hope that you can all get together in celebration. To pass down your memories of the shock, awe, and arousal you felt. To recall your joy as your anti-Bush FUD was modded to +5, insightful. To remember your hilarious puns at the size of John Kerry's chin, and how they earned you +o in #politics. To giggle girlishly at how your crippling zergrush wowed all who viewed your rancidly coloured MIDI infested xanga blog.

But most importantly of all. The GNAA would also like to issue our fondest desire for world peace. And hold firm in our resolve that the bloodshed can only be resolved through the pacifying and unifying acts of male-on-male sodomy and fellatio, and through a peaceful male-only world. Can the leaders of the world put aside their differences once and for all and love their fellow man? Can we swap our rusty kalashnikovs for a warm meaty dong? Our explosive belts for exploding rectums? We can only hope.

Happy Holidays!
From The Gay Nigger Association of America

About WTC

The World Trade Center (WTC) was built in the 1960's by well-known drug-addicted architect Guy Niguere. On massive levels of barbiturates at the time, Niguere made many mistakes in the design of the building, but structurally and stylistically. This led to the towers easy destruction by the Israeli.

About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY ?
Are you a NIGGER ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

• First, you have to obtain a copy of

We at the GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) would like to wish you seasons greetings on this most glorious day.

As we reach the fifth anniversary of the momentous destruction of two large ugly buildings by the highly trained agents of mossad (Israels notorious anti-gentile secret service), and the war against sandniggers everywhere that ensued, we have entered into what is widely recognised as a golden age of trolling. This could not have been possible without the assistance of YOU!

Without the glorious genocidal activites of hooknosed Jews, the gulliblity of pinko Slashbots soaking up whatever Michael Moore shits out, the whining of eurotrash clinging to the tattered remnants of Socialism, and of course, without the poorly washed Muslims who, as we speak, continue their holy and righteous Jihad against the evils of the Israeli Bus Service. Without these people, without you people, our jobs would be so much more taxing, and far less rewarding.

As your family gathers around the Osama Tree to exchange your gifts of toy Boeings and charred Firemen, we at the GNAA hope that you can all get together in celebration. To pass down your memories of the shock, awe, and arousal you felt. To recall your joy as your anti-Bush FUD was modded to +5, insightful. To remember your hilarious puns at the size of John Kerry's chin, and how they earned you +o in #politics. To giggle girlishly at how your crippling zergrush wowed all who viewed your rancidly coloured MIDI infested xanga blog.

But most importantly of all. The GNAA would also like to issue our fondest desire for world peace. And hold firm in our resolve that the bloodshed can only be resolved through the pacifying and unifying acts of male-on-male sodomy and fellatio, and through a peaceful male-only world. Can the leaders of the world put aside their differences once and for all and love their fellow man? Can we swap our rusty kalashnikovs for a warm meaty dong? Our explosive belts for exploding rectums? We can only hope.

Happy Holidays!
From The Gay Nigger Association of America

About WTC

The World Trade Center (WTC) was built in the 1960's by well-known drug-addicted architect Guy Niguere. On massive levels of barbiturates at the time, Niguere made many mistakes in the design of the building, but structurally and stylistically. This led to the towers easy destruction by the Israeli.

About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY ?
Are you a NIGGER ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

• First, you have to obtain a copy of

Very strange, I'm not sure either. You'd think that even BEFORE 9/11 happened, NORAD would have known about the planes' diverted flight path (and if not the first plane, the second one at least..??) ...but for some reason they had no idea.

Talk about strange.

You'd think that 5 years after this horrible disaster, all of this "homeland security", increased taxpayer spending, would at least help us prepare for another homeland strike..but for some reason, most of us feel more at risk than before 9/11. Even our president tells us it could happen at any time, and the only thing to do is "fight the terrorists".

Talk about eerie...

I'm 26, young and still have a lot of fight left in me...but I'm scared for the older people that are sitting at home, watching CNN/Fox news, scared that a terrorist will blow their house up. Or the kids (the kids!) who don't understand why two huge buildings "just fell down"... For some reason, these billions and billions of taxpayer dollars that are supposed to be going toward helping us all feel better about the security of a nation...just isn't there.

Talk about a completely unbalanced proportion. 5 years later, we still don't know what happened on 9/11.

Statistics presented without any social context are meaningless.

There are a handful of cities that can absorb 3000 deaths and massive loss of infrastructure in a single incident. New Orleans is patently not one of them. The WTC at noontime held 50,000 people. Minimized Fatalities

That is the problem.

It has become possible to imagine a terrorist attack with deaths on the scale of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

As for myself, I'll not waste any sympathy on the passenger who can't live without his laptop, his hair gel, or his iPod for four to six hours.

The 23rd floor of Building 7 had received 15 million dollars' worth of renovations to create an emergency command center for then-Mayor Rudolf Giuliani. The features of the command center include:

        * Bullet- and bomb-resistant windows
        * An independent, secure air and water supply
        * The ability to withstand winds of 200 mph

These renovations were applied only to the 23rd floor. The command-center bunker was the the subject of much ridicule when it was created.

-http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/background/wtc7.h tml

• presumably, the demolition of WTC 1&2 was overseen from the 23rd floor of wtc7. Destroying wtc7 was a convenient way to get rid of any evidence.
• The SEC, with offices in WTC7, had several ongoing investigations into how investment banks dished out IPO shares during the tech bubble. Destorying wtc7 complicated those investigations (I don't know what ever happened to them, whether the SEC was able to recover, or whether they quietly closed the cases... ?)
• Silverstein (owner/leasee of WTC 1, 2 & 7) received an $861 million payment on his WTC7 insurance policy, in addition to the $3.6 billion from the WTC 1&2 policy. (source)

The 23rd floor of Building 7 had received 15 million dollars' worth of renovations to create an emergency command center for then-Mayor Rudolf Giuliani. The features of the command center include:

        * Bullet- and bomb-resistant windows
        * An independent, secure air and water supply
        * The ability to withstand winds of 200 mph

These renovations were applied only to the 23rd floor. The command-center bunker was the the subject of much ridicule when it was created.

-http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/background/wtc7.h tml

• presumably, the demolition of WTC 1&2 was overseen from the 23rd floor of wtc7. Destroying wtc7 was a convenient way to get rid of any evidence.
• The SEC, with offices in WTC7, had several ongoing investigations into how investment banks dished out IPO shares during the tech bubble. Destorying wtc7 complicated those investigations (I don't know what ever happened to them, whether the SEC was able to recover, or whether they quietly closed the cases... ?)
• Silverstein (owner/leasee of WTC 1, 2 & 7) received an $861 million payment on his WTC7 insurance policy, in addition to the $3.6 billion from the WTC 1&2 policy. (source)

The 23rd floor of Building 7 had received 15 million dollars' worth of renovations to create an emergency command center for then-Mayor Rudolf Giuliani. The features of the command center include:

        * Bullet- and bomb-resistant windows
        * An independent, secure air and water supply
        * The ability to withstand winds of 200 mph

These renovations were applied only to the 23rd floor. The command-center bunker was the the subject of much ridicule when it was created.

-http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/background/wtc7.h tml

• presumably, the demolition of WTC 1&2 was overseen from the 23rd floor of wtc7. Destroying wtc7 was a convenient way to get rid of any evidence.
• The SEC, with offices in WTC7, had several ongoing investigations into how investment banks dished out IPO shares during the tech bubble. Destorying wtc7 complicated those investigations (I don't know what ever happened to them, whether the SEC was able to recover, or whether they quietly closed the cases... ?)
• Silverstein (owner/leasee of WTC 1, 2 & 7) received an $861 million payment on his WTC7 insurance policy, in addition to the $3.6 billion from the WTC 1&2 policy. (source)

No doubt this is all false as it's a government body but why don't you read this and try to refute their claims: http://wtc.nist.gov/

I am not an engineer, nor am I a self-studied expert in the WTC clusterfuck. But it seems that someone else has already undertaken a critique of the NIST report: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/index.html .

No one's responded to my statements that it would've been nice to have had an analysis performed on the WTC steel. Maybe you can tell me why such an analysis was unnecessary.

I guess it just depends on who you'd rather believe: our loving, caring governmental overlords, or individuals who noticed discrepancies in the official fairy-tale, and have dedicated themselves to exposing massive tyranny & betrayal.

If you start with a conclusion, it's trivial to find evidence to support your intended outcome. Then you simply have to ignore everything that doesn't fit.

If you start with a conclusion, it's trivial to find evidence to support your intended outcome. Then you simply have to ignore everything that doesn't fit.

When Clinton launched rockets at Al Qaeda, August 1998, the Republicans got angry. They said that Al Qaeda was not an actual concern; That he was just trying to distract from Monika.

Good thing that the Republicans didn't get their way; It would take Republicans in office, for security to get out of hand, and then to make the decision to pin terrorism on Iraq within days.

It would be intesting to see if this guy still believes the same thing. I would think the design took into account the accidental impact of a 707, i.e. slow speed - trying to actually avoid the building, rather than a deliberate, full-speed impact.

The thinking was that a plane might get lost in teh fog, and a pilot might not notice that they were about to run into the towers, as happened with the Empire State building some years before - a bomber during WWII?

As I understand it, the towers were designed with a strong central core, and the "mosquito net" on the outside provided rigidity. In any case, Both WTC towers took their planes very well. After an initial shudder, they stood rock-solid for a time, until they just sort of liquified. Liquification is consistent with the pre-planted explosive theory of WTC collapse. Again, it would've been nice to have had a failure analysis on the WTC steel, but it was melted down and shipped off before such could be done.

You also need to explain the collapse of WTC7. No planes, minor debris (it was some distance away). There were some fires and, hours later, *pop*, it liquified too. See www.wtc7.net.

Everyone realizes eventually that beliefs they've previously held are false. I know I've had to reconsider my positions several times. On the one hand, it kinda sucks to get your worldview shaken up, but as the saying goes, "the truth shall set you free". :)

Be sure to have the 911 Research Companion to Loose Change handy when you're watching it... The filmmakers make some excellent points, but (according to wtc7.net) flub up a bit too.

Remember that we're searching for truth here. No point in believing falsehoods, and the researchers who wrote the companion help "separate the [Loose Change's] wheat from the chaff".

It would be intesting to see if this guy still believes the same thing. I would think the design took into account the accidental impact of a 707, i.e. slow speed - trying to actually avoid the building, rather than a deliberate, full-speed impact.

The thinking was that a plane might get lost in teh fog, and a pilot might not notice that they were about to run into the towers, as happened with the Empire State building some years before - a bomber during WWII?

As I understand it, the towers were designed with a strong central core, and the "mosquito net" on the outside provided rigidity. In any case, Both WTC towers took their planes very well. After an initial shudder, they stood rock-solid for a time, until they just sort of liquified. Liquification is consistent with the pre-planted explosive theory of WTC collapse. Again, it would've been nice to have had a failure analysis on the WTC steel, but it was melted down and shipped off before such could be done.

You also need to explain the collapse of WTC7. No planes, minor debris (it was some distance away). There were some fires and, hours later, *pop*, it liquified too. See www.wtc7.net.

Everyone realizes eventually that beliefs they've previously held are false. I know I've had to reconsider my positions several times. On the one hand, it kinda sucks to get your worldview shaken up, but as the saying goes, "the truth shall set you free". :)

Be sure to have the 911 Research Companion to Loose Change handy when you're watching it... The filmmakers make some excellent points, but (according to wtc7.net) flub up a bit too.

Remember that we're searching for truth here. No point in believing falsehoods, and the researchers who wrote the companion help "separate the [Loose Change's] wheat from the chaff".

...

Overall, it comes as a great surprise that the impact of a Boeing 767 bought down either tower. Indeed, many experts are on record as saying that the towers would survive the impact of the larger and faster Boeing 747. In this regard, see professor Astaneh-Asl's simulation of the crash of the much, much larger and heavier Boeing 747 with the World Trade Center. Professor Astaneh-Asl teaches at the University of California, Berkeley.

Although the jet fuel fires have been ruled out as the cause of the collapses, it should still be pointed out that the fuel capacities of the Boeing 707 and the Boeing 767 are essentially the same. And in any case, it has been estimated that both UA Flight 175 and AA Flight 11 were carrying about 10,000 gallons of fuel when they impacted. This is well below the 23,000 gallon capacity of a Boeing 707 or 767. Thus the amount of fuel that exploded and burnt on September 11 was envisaged by those who designed the towers. Consequently, the towers were designed to survive such fires. It should also be mentioned that other high-rise buildings have suffered significantly more serious fires than those of the twin towers on September 11, and did not collapse. ...
-source

I was very interested in this for a while myself. After taking an honest look at both sides to the argument I came to the conclusion that the large majority of conspiracy claims being made regarding 9/11 simply *must* be bullshit. You may want to start with these

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html
http://www.911research.wtc7.net/reviews/loose_chan ge/index.html

Think of it like this: if you just shake up and open a bottle of coke, itll spray everywhere. If you let it sit long enough for the co2 to dissolve, and open it slowly, there is no sudden shock to release the dissolved gas. Same thing with heating water in the microwave in a perfectly smooth container: you can get it hotter than 100 degrees without boiling, because there is no particular spot for the bubbles (of steam) to form.

Well people/populations are like that. First they take your guns (seems logical enough, especially on a plane, even Im not gonna argue with that) then they take your pocket knives (ok..) then they take your nail clippers and plastic cutlery.. (wha?) then they take your toothpaste (huh? what the fuck?). at every stage the pre-flight search and the screening process gets more invasive, the ID you need (papers please) get more invasive, the database kept of your personal info gets bigger, but no one step is enough to "fizz" the population into a full scale revolt (see armed guards doing body searches at footy games, people arrested and locked up for days for peacefull protests, torture sanctioned by the president, unauthorised wiretapping sanctioned by the president. etc etc

Ask yourself this. If 10 years ago, all in one day, the government was to say: no pocket knives, plastic cutlery, nail clippers, metal thingies, pointy thingies, laptops, phones (assuming you had these two items) gameboys, walkmans, toothpaste, breast milk, bottles of water, mouthwash, god knows what, on planes. Body searches at sports games, they where going to torture people openly and no-one could do a thing about it. They would wiretap whoever they want and no one could do a thing about it, they where going to invade whoever they want and no one could do a thing about it, they would arrest anyone they want as a "terrorist" and hold them without charges indeffinately (while probably torturing them for info or fun) and no one could do a thing about it etc etc WOULDNT YOU BE PISSED OFF????WOuld you rise up and protect yourself, family, friends and children from a police state/fascism?

fucken sheeple. Wake up, or it'll be too late. Anyone alarmed by the above post (ie not a sheeple) start by watching "painful deceptions" on google video, then "the money masters" "truth and lies of 9/11", "martial law 9/11" "terrorstorm" etc etc, or, if you want a more scientific/research based intro, go to here , here , here and here (by the way, why this fake terror and restrictions on flying? SO THAT ONLY THE POWERFULL CAN EASILY FLY of course. Those with private jets and helicopters, limo's waiting and entire wardrobes waiting, wont be worried about this crap. Your average family that has to put up with smelly grumpy kids with no toys to keep them occupied for a 10 hour flight, and the distinct likely hood of being stranded in their destination with NO luggage or possessions beyond what they have on their person will be...)

...

In January of 2003 FBI and CIA whistleblowers told Capitol Hill Blue that the White House was scripting phony terror alerts to maintain hysteria, upkeep President Bush's approval ratings and milk extra defense funding. The report that five Pakistani men had entered the States via Canada and were planning on carrying out a dirty bomb or biological attack was completely conjured up by the Bush administration's black propaganda office. New York Harbor was shut down to visibly pump up the fear. One of the named suspects, Mohammed Asghar (pictured left), was tracked down to Pakistan by the Associated Press. He was a fat guy running a jewellers shop and had never even been to America.

World Net Daily commented,

"Other sources within the bureau and the Central Intelligence Agency said the administration is pressuring intelligence agencies to develop "something, anything" to support an array of non-specific terrorism alerts issued by the White House and the Department of Homeland Security...CHB reported that FBI and CIA sources said a recent White House memo listing the war on terrorism as a definitive political advantage and fund-raising tool is just one of many documents discussing how to best utilize the terrorist threat."

Since those early admissions, every single major terror alert that the US, UK or Canadian government has issued has proven to be completely fraudulent and scripted. ...

-http://www.infowars.net/articles/August2006/10080 6Alert.htm(emphasis added, supporting links available in original)

We at the GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) would like to wish you seasons greetings on this most glorious day.

As we reach the third anniversary of the momentous destruction of two large ugly buildings by the highly trained agents of mossad (Israels notorious anti-gentile secret service), and the war against sandniggers everywhere that ensued, we have entered into what is widely recognised as a golden age of trolling. This could not have been possible without the assistance of YOU!

Without the glorious genocidal activites of hooknosed Jews, the gulliblity of pinko Slashbots soaking up whatever Michael Moore shits out, the whining of eurotrash clinging to the tattered remnants of Socialism, and of course, without the poorly washed Muslims who, as we speak, continue their holy and righteous Jihad against the evils of the Israeli Bus Service. Without these people, without you people, our jobs would be so much more taxing, and far less rewarding.

As your family gathers around the Osama Tree to exchange your gifts of toy Boeings and charred Firemen, we at the GNAA hope that you can all get together in celebration. To pass down your memories of the shock, awe, and arousal you felt. To recall your joy as your anti-Bush FUD was modded to +5, insightful. To remember your hilarious puns at the size of John Kerry's chin, and how they earned you +o in #politics. To giggle girlishly at how your crippling zergrush wowed all who viewed your rancidly coloured MIDI infested xanga blog.

But most importantly of all. The GNAA would also like to issue our fondest desire for world peace. And hold firm in our resolve that the bloodshed can only be resolved through the pacifying and unifying acts of male-on-male sodomy and fellatio, and through a peaceful male-only world. Can the leaders of the world put aside their differences once and for all and love their fellow man? Can we swap our rusty kalashnikovs for a warm meaty dong? Our explosive belts for exploding rectums? We can only hope.

Happy Holidays!
From The Gay Nigger Association of America

About WTC

The World Trade Center (WTC) was built in the 1960's by well-known drug-addicted architect Guy Niguere. On massive levels of barbiturates at the time, Niguere made many mistakes in the design of the building, but structurally and stylistically. This led to the towers easy destruction by the Israeli.

About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY ?
Are you a NIGGER ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

• First, you have to obtain a copy of

We at the GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) would like to wish you seasons greetings on this most glorious day.

As we reach the third anniversary of the momentous destruction of two large ugly buildings by the highly trained agents of mossad (Israels notorious anti-gentile secret service), and the war against sandniggers everywhere that ensued, we have entered into what is widely recognised as a golden age of trolling. This could not have been possible without the assistance of YOU!

Without the glorious genocidal activites of hooknosed Jews, the gulliblity of pinko Slashbots soaking up whatever Michael Moore shits out, the whining of eurotrash clinging to the tattered remnants of Socialism, and of course, without the poorly washed Muslims who, as we speak, continue their holy and righteous Jihad against the evils of the Israeli Bus Service. Without these people, without you people, our jobs would be so much more taxing, and far less rewarding.

As your family gathers around the Osama Tree to exchange your gifts of toy Boeings and charred Firemen, we at the GNAA hope that you can all get together in celebration. To pass down your memories of the shock, awe, and arousal you felt. To recall your joy as your anti-Bush FUD was modded to +5, insightful. To remember your hilarious puns at the size of John Kerry's chin, and how they earned you +o in #politics. To giggle girlishly at how your crippling zergrush wowed all who viewed your rancidly coloured MIDI infested xanga blog.

But most importantly of all. The GNAA would also like to issue our fondest desire for world peace. And hold firm in our resolve that the bloodshed can only be resolved through the pacifying and unifying acts of male-on-male sodomy and fellatio, and through a peaceful male-only world. Can the leaders of the world put aside their differences once and for all and love their fellow man? Can we swap our rusty kalashnikovs for a warm meaty dong? Our explosive belts for exploding rectums? We can only hope.

Happy Holidays!
From The Gay Nigger Association of America

About WTC

The World Trade Center (WTC) was built in the 1960's by well-known drug-addicted architect Guy Niguere. On massive levels of barbiturates at the time, Niguere made many mistakes in the design of the building, but structurally and stylistically. This led to the towers easy destruction by the Israeli.

About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY ?
Are you a NIGGER ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

• First, you have to obtain a copy of

>A couple months ago, I got into a discussion about the WTC collapse. One thing that was mentioned is that a large part of the collapse was due to the extreme temperatures of burning jet fuel weakening the elastic modulus of the steel-framed structure.

Doesn't sound like a good discussion then. Most of the jet fuel exploded outside the building. A half-hour later, there were people standing in the impact zones. Chief Palmer reached the 78th floor and reported that they could "knock it down with two lines."

The WTC collapses may be a tricky structural subject, but extreme temperatures is probably the biggest, most easily proved flaw in the argument.

We at the GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) would like to wish you seasons greetings on this most glorious day.

As we reach the third anniversary of the momentous destruction of two large ugly buildings by the highly trained agents of mossad (Israels notorious anti-gentile secret service), and the war against sandniggers everywhere that ensued, we have entered into what is widely recognised as a golden age of trolling. This could not have been possible without the assistance of YOU!

Without the glorious genocidal activites of hooknosed Jews, the gulliblity of pinko Slashbots soaking up whatever Michael Moore shits out, the whining of eurotrash clinging to the tattered remnants of Socialism, and of course, without the poorly washed Muslims who, as we speak, continue their holy and righteous Jihad against the evils of the Israeli Bus Service. Without these people, without you people, our jobs would be so much more taxing, and far less rewarding.

As your family gathers around the Osama Tree to exchange your gifts of toy Boeings and charred Firemen, we at the GNAA hope that you can all get together in celebration. To pass down your memories of the shock, awe, and arousal you felt. To recall your joy as your anti-Bush FUD was modded to +5, insightful. To remember your hilarious puns at the size of John Kerry's chin, and how they earned you +o in #politics. To giggle girlishly at how your crippling zergrush wowed all who viewed your rancidly coloured MIDI infested xanga blog.

But most importantly of all. The GNAA would also like to issue our fondest desire for world peace. And hold firm in our resolve that the bloodshed can only be resolved through the pacifying and unifying acts of male-on-male sodomy and fellatio, and through a peaceful male-only world. Can the leaders of the world put aside their differences once and for all and love their fellow man? Can we swap our rusty kalashnikovs for a warm meaty dong? Our explosive belts for exploding rectums? We can only hope.

Happy Holidays!
From The Gay Nigger Association of America

About WTC

The World Trade Center (WTC) was built in the 1960's by well-known drug-addicted architect Guy Niguere. On massive levels of barbiturates at the time, Niguere made many mistakes in the design of the building, but structurally and stylistically. This led to the towers easy destruction by the Israeli.

About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY ?
Are you a NIGGER ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

• First, you have to obtain a copy of

We at the GNAA (Gay Nigger Association of America) would like to wish you seasons greetings on this most glorious day.

As we reach the third anniversary of the momentous destruction of two large ugly buildings by the highly trained agents of mossad (Israels notorious anti-gentile secret service), and the war against sandniggers everywhere that ensued, we have entered into what is widely recognised as a golden age of trolling. This could not have been possible without the assistance of YOU!

Without the glorious genocidal activites of hooknosed Jews, the gulliblity of pinko Slashbots soaking up whatever Michael Moore shits out, the whining of eurotrash clinging to the tattered remnants of Socialism, and of course, without the poorly washed Muslims who, as we speak, continue their holy and righteous Jihad against the evils of the Israeli Bus Service. Without these people, without you people, our jobs would be so much more taxing, and far less rewarding.

As your family gathers around the Osama Tree to exchange your gifts of toy Boeings and charred Firemen, we at the GNAA hope that you can all get together in celebration. To pass down your memories of the shock, awe, and arousal you felt. To recall your joy as your anti-Bush FUD was modded to +5, insightful. To remember your hilarious puns at the size of John Kerry's chin, and how they earned you +o in #politics. To giggle girlishly at how your crippling zergrush wowed all who viewed your rancidly coloured MIDI infested xanga blog.

But most importantly of all. The GNAA would also like to issue our fondest desire for world peace. And hold firm in our resolve that the bloodshed can only be resolved through the pacifying and unifying acts of male-on-male sodomy and fellatio, and through a peaceful male-only world. Can the leaders of the world put aside their differences once and for all and love their fellow man? Can we swap our rusty kalashnikovs for a warm meaty dong? Our explosive belts for exploding rectums? We can only hope.

Happy Holidays!
From The Gay Nigger Association of America

About WTC

The World Trade Center (WTC) was built in the 1960's by well-known drug-addicted architect Guy Niguere. On massive levels of barbiturates at the time, Niguere made many mistakes in the design of the building, but structurally and stylistically. This led to the towers easy destruction by the Israeli.

About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY ?
Are you a NIGGER ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

• First, you have to obtain a copy of

"Did they also have the weight of a fully-loaded 747 sitting on one of their stress-weakened floors?"

erm.... first, they where Boeing 767-222's, not 747's. Obviously you've done plenty of research into this topic, and just forgot this.....

A 767 weighs a little over 100 tonnes. The floors of the buildings weighed around 1000-> 3000 tonnes each. so adding the entire weight of a 767 added a whopping 3 -10% extra load to the floor, assuming it managed to stop itself on just one floor rather than multiple floors and assuming none fell out of the building. (I hope Im never in a structure where the safety limits are so low that 3% extra can make it fall..) If you cant see your argument is rediculous, I'll help you out a little more:

The buildings where designed to handle impacts from "fully loaded 707's", the largest passenger aircraft at the time. (this from the WTC construction and Project manager). In fact he believes they could withstand MULTIPLE strikes due to the "intense grid" construction, with a plane being like a "pencil through a screen door". A boeing 707 weighs between 100 and 150 tonnes. This is the same or in some cases MORE than the 767's that hit.

"Geez, I'm still amazed by the fact that it didn't fall over when it was hit"

Perhaps you should consider the hundreds of firefighters, who are normally experts (or at least the people in charge are) on when a building is safe to enter or not, who died because they disagreed with your statement. Perhaps you should read some of their interesting witness statements that they where BLOCKED FROM RELEASING for years!!!

The most interesting thing about the Google Video top 100 has been Loose Change. For weeks it has been the only full length film that isn't short a very short titillation clip (eg Webcam Girls Go Wild) or dubious humour clips (eg funny clips baby fart) that has been in the top 20.

Loose Change is the most popular 9/11 "conspiracy theory" film, no doubt due to its slick graphics, soundtrack and editing -- for an amateur movie it is impressive. However it's not the most accurate movie of its type -- see the discussion on indybay and the detailed Sifting Through Loose Change The 9-11 Research Companion.

Read on for a brief guide to some better 9/11 videos that deserve more attention...

9/11 Revisited: Were explosives used to bring down the buildings? (2006)

This is currently, probably, the best 9/11 video that challenges the official conspiracy theory.

9/11 Revisited concentrates on the collapse of the three World Trade Center buildings and includes news reports from the day and interviews with experts including Steven E Jones, David Ray Griffin and Jeff King. It is available to view online and via Google Video and the Internet Archive.

9/11 Breaking the Laws of Physics (2006)

This is a lecture from 2006 by BYU Physics Professor Steven E Jones on the collapse of the WTC buildings on 9/11. It is available from the Internet Archive. The academic paper this presentation is based on is Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?.

The 9/11 Commission Report (2004)

This is a lecture by David Ray Griffin -- professor emeritus of philosophy of religion and theology, at the Claremont School of Theology in Claremont, California. He has written many books including The New Pearl Harbor and The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions on the official 9/11 Report. This lecture is available from theInternet Archive.

9-11 Open Your Eyes the War on Terror is a Lie (2004)

Filmed at the 9/11 International Inquiry (Toronto, May 2004) Open Your Eyes is available on the Internet Archive.

Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime (2006)

This new film covers the links between the US adminstration, the Republician Party and drugs running and the 9/11 hijackers, it is available on Google Video and there are higher quality versions on 911 blogger, the official film site is http://www.crisisinamerica.org/

War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11 (2003)

Politically this is the best video on 9/11.

War and Globalization is a lecture, from 2003 by Michel Chossudovsky, a professor of econom

The chance is equal to zero, he didn't reluctantly admit to be the boss of it. Terrorists don't reluctantly admit the attacks, terrorists claim their attacks, revendication is part of the purpose of an attack, terrorists don't deny their attacks, saying stuff like "as a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie", and then less than 9 days later (the interview was from the 28th september, the video was broadcasted the 7th october, you can presume it was not made on the 7th but even earlier) admit it reluctantly (btw he also denied having anything to do with the attacks earlier on al-Jazeera)

Look at it this way, he said in interviews that he didn't do it. Then he said in videos he did it. But where are these videos coming from? Al Jazeera.

It appears that a very few days before the airing of that first bin Laden tape (on the 7th october 2001) the US pressured al-Jazeera.

From the Committee to Protect Journalists : "Following a meeting yesterday (October 3, 2001, 4 days before the broadcasting) in Washington, D.C., with U.S. secretary of state Colin Powell, Qatari ruler Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani acknowledged that U.S. officials had asked him to use his influence to rein in Al-Jazeera's news coverage." (you can also find about it here). I let you make your own conclusions

You probably also have heard of how his videos are controversial, although systematically authentified by the American intelligence, maybe some site like this one will convince you that it's not him on the tape?

Perhaps future students will study the failure of WTC 7 which managed to collapse without getting hit by a plane, or how other buildings, which were designed with the possibility of a plane collision, also collapsed from small fires. Design failure? Maybe this is beyond an ordinary technical failures class, more along the lines of an Ethics class.

Every aspect of every conspiracy theory about 9/11 has been systematically debunked somewhere or another.

Right, on Popular Mechanics, Snopes, 911Myths, and the very convincing 911 Commission Report which did not even bother to investigate the WTC 7 collapse. And actually Snopes debunks most of the "rumours" by referring to the Commission report. And 911 Myths states stuff like "Our take". Yeah, very convincing, some unregistered site in the U.K.

If you actually read the research, the proponents for the "offical" conspiracy theory really end up being pretty muddled and confusing - because they have been given the conclusion, so they must build their facts & evidence based on that. That's bad science, so naturally they have a hard time. Speaking of the highly respected journal Popular Mechanics, there is an well written paper by 911 Research which points out the flaws in the article.

Since the WTC was structurally unique, comparisons to other buildings really don't have much bearing in the matter,

and while they anticipated the impact of a 707, they did not take into account the combined effect of impact and a full load of fuel;

Yep, that's the number one argument - engineers just "forgot" about the fuel? That's an interesting view of the engineering profession.

all of this, of course, assumes that the designers were correct when saying that the building could withstand a 707.

Timelines show that jets were scrambled in a timely manner when the situation was understood (within minutes of realizing the planes were hijacked and pinpointing their locations.)

Well, their story keeps changing there also. Apparently, at one point, they had the jets scrambled *away*, 150 miles out into the Atlantic!

In hearings last Friday, Sen. Dayton (D-MN) raised an obvious point: if the timeline of air defense response as promoted in the Kean Commission's best-selling book is correct, then the timeline presented repeatedly by NORAD during the last two years was completely wrong. Yet now no one at NORAD is willing to comment on their own timeline!

When the official story of 9/11 can be changed repeatedly without anyone ever being held accountable, we have no right to ever again expect honest government. Please read the following story and do your part to support Sen. Dayton for highlighting the contradiction, and to encourage the media to follow up.

You need to think a little more. They don't require many conspirators, just a few at the top, the rest obediently falling orders. The best example is the officer who was reprimanded by Cheney when he asked him, as the plane was approaching the Pentagon, whether "the orders still stood". Cheney chewed him out something to the effect that had he heard otherwise.

Also, be careful not to confuse disinformation with information. Switching planes? Red herring, like the "Arab Pilot Learns to Fly" story.

You'll never convince him otherwise, because his entire conception of self is wound up in the idea that he is the rare visionary, the one who cannot be fooled. To admit that he is wrong would require him to admit that he is profoundly wrong, not just gulled, but gullible.

Yes, so I'll stop bothering reading this thread, those stubborn folk just won't change their minds with scientific proofs under their very noses!

Every aspect of every conspiracy theory about 9/11 has been systematically debunked somewhere or another.

Right, on Popular Mechanics, Snopes, 911Myths, and the very convincing 911 Commission Report which did not even bother to investigate the WTC 7 collapse. And actually Snopes debunks most of the "rumours" by referring to the Commission report. And 911 Myths states stuff like "Our take". Yeah, very convincing, some unregistered site in the U.K.

If you actually read the research, the proponents for the "offical" conspiracy theory really end up being pretty muddled and confusing - because they have been given the conclusion, so they must build their facts & evidence based on that. That's bad science, so naturally they have a hard time. Speaking of the highly respected journal Popular Mechanics, there is an well written paper by 911 Research which points out the flaws in the article.

Since the WTC was structurally unique, comparisons to other buildings really don't have much bearing in the matter,

and while they anticipated the impact of a 707, they did not take into account the combined effect of impact and a full load of fuel;

Yep, that's the number one argument - engineers just "forgot" about the fuel? That's an interesting view of the engineering profession.

all of this, of course, assumes that the designers were correct when saying that the building could withstand a 707.

Timelines show that jets were scrambled in a timely manner when the situation was understood (within minutes of realizing the planes were hijacked and pinpointing their locations.)

Well, their story keeps changing there also. Apparently, at one point, they had the jets scrambled *away*, 150 miles out into the Atlantic!

In hearings last Friday, Sen. Dayton (D-MN) raised an obvious point: if the timeline of air defense response as promoted in the Kean Commission's best-selling book is correct, then the timeline presented repeatedly by NORAD during the last two years was completely wrong. Yet now no one at NORAD is willing to comment on their own timeline!

When the official story of 9/11 can be changed repeatedly without anyone ever being held accountable, we have no right to ever again expect honest government. Please read the following story and do your part to support Sen. Dayton for highlighting the contradiction, and to encourage the media to follow up.

You need to think a little more. They don't require many conspirators, just a few at the top, the rest obediently falling orders. The best example is the officer who was reprimanded by Cheney when he asked him, as the plane was approaching the Pentagon, whether "the orders still stood". Cheney chewed him out something to the effect that had he heard otherwise.

Also, be careful not to confuse disinformation with information. Switching planes? Red herring, like the "Arab Pilot Learns to Fly" story.

You'll never convince him otherwise, because his entire conception of self is wound up in the idea that he is the rare visionary, the one who cannot be fooled. To admit that he is wrong would require him to admit that he is profoundly wrong, not just gulled, but gullible.

Yes, so I'll stop bothering reading this thread, those stubborn folk just won't change their minds with scientific proofs under their very noses!

It's interesting whoruns security at the WTC (GW's brother Marvin Bush, working for a company backed by the Kuwaitis). It's further interesting that they have not been investigated for the any mysterious security issues at the buildings, such as the fact that the bomb-sniffing dogs had been removed 5 days before 9-11. Or what was the purpose of the evacuations in the preceding weeks? Kill two birds with one stone? But we shouldn't investigate the security, perhaps it's so we wouldn't offend the Kuwaitis, what with the ports deal they must be very upset with Americans and that we need to be nicer to them.

Are they the same? Nope.

Ah, the Sesame Street analyis.

Is the 707 as large as a 767? Nope. Does it hold as much fuel? Nope.

Gosh your right, 23,000 vs 23,980 gal. I'm sure that extra 980 gal. made the difference ;)

Which one is more massive? Not the 707...

Yeah, it probably was the 6 ft extra length and 10 ft extra wingspan that was the kicker. Now there's a good laugh!!

Since you missed one, more *important* question (probably illustrating your lack of understanding & research), I'll ask it:

Which plane had more kinetic energy?

Given the differences in cruise speeds, a 707 in normal flight would actually have more kinetic energy than a 767, despite the slightly smaller size. Note the similar fuel capacities of both aircraft. The 767s used on September 11th were estimated to be carrying about 10,000 gallons of fuel each at the time of impact, only about 40% of the capacity of a 707.

So actually, the towers were overengineered for a 767.

According to Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering professor and the World Trade Center's construction manager, 1 and 2 World Trade Center were designed to survive an impact and resulting fires from a collision by the largest commercial aircraft at the time, a Boeing 707-340. 1 Contrary to widely promoted misconceptions, the 767-200s used on 9-11 were only slightly larger than 707s.

How does it feel to make an idiotic observation with no basis in reality?

I don't know, good question for you though. You really are a little nuts. But I guess anyone who has to keep coming up with such inane, impossible "reasons" for believeing the story that was fed to them, must be.

Sadly you're incorrect. NORAD Stand Down

Since then, Silverstein, the owner, has admitted he had the building "pulled".

Ah, straw man argument. These are Silverstein's words. He's not defining the term. That's what he said. Read it again.

Additionally, Silverstein was talking to the fire commander about the firefighters around WTC7 and their effort to do whatever it was they were doing: "pull [the effort]".

Haha. Nice try. If that makes any sense at all to you, fine. Wow, you people really have to try hard don't you?

Again, think about this. These bldgs were designed this way. As someone pointed out, if you think they simply forgot about the fuel, well, you don't know much about engineering. Check out the slides on the WTC collapse - just try to understand the material and forget about grammar and spelling mistakes.

No, actually I read this. I know, how unlike Slashdot. Read the sources. Facts. Basically, to believe the approved story of how the bldgs collapsed, you would need to disregard basic scientific principles. What the heck, I'll save you the trouble, see below. The key is "asymetry". To put it in a simpler terms, think of Jenga, as someone pointed out in another comment.

Building 7 was 5 times as tall as deep.

To bring this building down into its footprint required that all 58 perimeter columns and 25 core columns be destroyed simultaneously.

Any asymmetry in damage would cause asymmetric collapse: the building would topple.

No combination of rubble impact damage, fires, or fuel tank explosions could have destroyed all columns simultaneously, as required to cause a vertical collapse.

Only controlled demolitions have achieved vertical collapses of upright steel structures.

No, actually I read this. I know, how unlike Slashdot. Read the sources. Facts. Basically, to believe the approved story of how the bldgs collapsed, you would need to disregard basic scientific principles. What the heck, I'll save you the trouble, see below. The key is "asymetry". To put it in a simpler terms, think of Jenga, as someone pointed out in another comment.

Building 7 was 5 times as tall as deep.

To bring this building down into its footprint required that all 58 perimeter columns and 25 core columns be destroyed simultaneously.

Any asymmetry in damage would cause asymmetric collapse: the building would topple.

No combination of rubble impact damage, fires, or fuel tank explosions could have destroyed all columns simultaneously, as required to cause a vertical collapse.

Only controlled demolitions have achieved vertical collapses of upright steel structures.

Like I said, some interesting flying for a bunch of beginner pilots, some who were so bad they failed their certification test (in order to rent a plane). Remember too the "story" is they trained at small schools on Cessna's and the like - not 757. There's a difference. Think of driving a MG vs. a Hummer. Just a bit of a stretch. And while you could "ease" the plane down, and I've not seen the flight path, but I'm guessing he didn't have alot of maneuvering room to "ease" down. From WTC7 Research:

The complexity and precision of the approach maneuver are nearly impossible to reconcile with the official account that the plane was piloted by Hani Hanjour, an incompetent pilot of even single-engine prop-planes.

And further as someone pointed out, he nocked over some light poles - but kept his course. The simple point is, that's some impressive flying skills, no question. It's pushing it to say a beginner could hit a tower, 100 stories up, but it's just not credible for a rookie to hit the Pentagon. One more interesting item. They happened to hit the one section of the Pentagon that had been reinforced.

The only force acting on the tower was gravity (OK, maybe a little bit of wind). Gravity pulling straight down on several hundred thousand tons of steel and concrete... where would you expect it to go, other than straight down?

Really now. Think this through a little more carefully. Then read some of the papers written about this. We expect a bldg to crumble in place under controlled demolition, that's the purpose. When a plane hits it, it explodes, and so the "story" goes, the fire weakens the building unevenly, you'd expect it too weaken and topple. [If this isn't the case, we'd be saving _alot_ of money in demolitions - just set a little fire at the top of the bldg and voila! Wouldn't that be nice.]

Also, you're completely omitting the floors underneath the floors supposedly falling down. That's called friction. These buildings collapsed in 8-15 seconds. That's the time it would take to drop a beam off the top of the building for it to hit the ground - but that's assuming there's nothing underneath to slow it down. How is that possible? One way is controlled demoliton.

Like I said, some interesting flying for a bunch of beginner pilots, some who were so bad they failed their certification test (in order to rent a plane). Remember too the "story" is they trained at small schools on Cessna's and the like - not 757. There's a difference. Think of driving a MG vs. a Hummer. Just a bit of a stretch. And while you could "ease" the plane down, and I've not seen the flight path, but I'm guessing he didn't have alot of maneuvering room to "ease" down. From WTC7 Research:

The complexity and precision of the approach maneuver are nearly impossible to reconcile with the official account that the plane was piloted by Hani Hanjour, an incompetent pilot of even single-engine prop-planes.

And further as someone pointed out, he nocked over some light poles - but kept his course. The simple point is, that's some impressive flying skills, no question. It's pushing it to say a beginner could hit a tower, 100 stories up, but it's just not credible for a rookie to hit the Pentagon. One more interesting item. They happened to hit the one section of the Pentagon that had been reinforced.

The only force acting on the tower was gravity (OK, maybe a little bit of wind). Gravity pulling straight down on several hundred thousand tons of steel and concrete... where would you expect it to go, other than straight down?

Really now. Think this through a little more carefully. Then read some of the papers written about this. We expect a bldg to crumble in place under controlled demolition, that's the purpose. When a plane hits it, it explodes, and so the "story" goes, the fire weakens the building unevenly, you'd expect it too weaken and topple. [If this isn't the case, we'd be saving _alot_ of money in demolitions - just set a little fire at the top of the bldg and voila! Wouldn't that be nice.]

Also, you're completely omitting the floors underneath the floors supposedly falling down. That's called friction. These buildings collapsed in 8-15 seconds. That's the time it would take to drop a beam off the top of the building for it to hit the ground - but that's assuming there's nothing underneath to slow it down. How is that possible? One way is controlled demoliton.

ok: Conspiracy theorist site telling that side of the story : up to 160 billion, 200 million recovered, other valuables possibly missing, trucks found loaded with gold, etc. Obviously not the best source, but you get the idea of the story. Now lets try to find the truth: from Wikipedia

"One of the world's largest gold depositories was stored underneath the World Trade Center, owned by a group of commercial banks. The 1993 bomb detonated close to the vault, but it withstood the explosion, as did the towers."

Ok one of the worlds largest, so it should be in the same league as fort knox, which according to wikipedia has 147 million ounces, at $700 an ounce, which is roughly 100 billion dollars. OK so 160 billion is not unbelievable, and any less than about 50 billion would imply it wasnt one of the biggest, so I estimate between 50 and 160 billion in gold. even going on the low side of 50 billion, we have over 49 billion dollars worth of gold missing from the WTC (not a bad take for a crime, works out to works out close to $20 million per person killed, not a bad days work for a hitman. Yes I realise how offensive that is, and apologise. I'm outraged by this crime and saddened and horrified at the poeple who where murdered that day, and am trying to make a point.) see here for interesting story of finding the truck with the gold in it

First of all, WT7 DID NOT have a plane crash into it, and yet still fell (symetrically and into its own footprint), next:

the empire state building had a plane crash into it: At 9:49 a.m. on Saturday July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber accidentally crashed into the north side between the 79th and 80th floors, where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. The fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. 14 people were killed in the accident[3].(wikipedia)

Regardless of this, the building was designed to withstand impacts by aircraft of this size, so it shouldn't (and indeed thats not the official explanation) have been the impact that caused the problem. if you think it was the fire, then compare this picture of the WTC fire towers where you can see a small area on one tower and a larger but still relatively small section on the other smoking (black indicating low oxygen therefore cooler fires) with a few visible flames, with this and thisimage of the windsor building in madrid, that was totally engulfed in flames from about halfway up the building to the top, and burned for 10 hours, yet didn't collapse, with only parts not including the inner support section collapsing after burning for hours, as you might expect. Note that the tower, while smaller, had a similar construction to the wtc, being a central support column and perimeter supports, and that the tower was "built using normal strength concrete and before modern fire proofing standards, without any sprinkler system. It was undergoing a complete refurbishment, including the installation of various active fire prevention and resistance measures, when the fire began at around 11pm on 14 February 2005." (see here and here for more pictures and (you may say biased) info and here for a case study of the construction and result of the huge fire. Many other buildings have burned for similar or longer, and not collapsed. If you still think it's reasonable to accept three world first events on the same day at face value, in your words "then you are, frankly, a fucking moron.""(in a less offensive way, if it was conspiracy theorists saying that al queda did it with planes, and the government saying that they demolished it to make room for new towers or something, then would you still think it was rediculous?)

also if you think it was "not an ordinary fire" and that the addition of the jet fuel caused the extra heat that differentiated them from every other fire in history, then, from the debunking 911 myths on popular mechanics:

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsiblefor the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

therefore apart from a hot start and some mild damage to the outer structure (which was not intended for holding up the bulk of the weight of the building but rather to resist torsional forces from wind etc, and therfore if that had failed would be much more likely to have caused an assymetrical toppling, rather than a symetrical fall), it was no different to any other fire in the history of steel/concrete buildings. So I ask again, why did three buildings fall on the same day from fire, and never before or since in history?

straw man. The steel didn't melt. It was hot enough to significantly weaken it (ask a blacksmith), but not to melt it.

"Peter Tully, presid

Before you waste your time with scholarsfor911truth goto this site and learn about the organization, members and multiple rebukings of thier "facts".
Some of the major contributers to scholarsfor911truth exist only on the internet, other real people are assosiated with sites such as Holocaust denial sites and sites that even question if man has ever landed on the moon.

[It has always claimed that 'no-707' theory is false and is a booby-trap for conspiracy theorists, and a disinformation that may have been intentionally flamed up by the government to cover-up other evidence (thus when they finally prove that a 707 indeed crashed Pentagon, they would have practically discredited all the other theories by the nature of human psychology.]

Video of the Pentagon Attack: What is the Government Hiding?
by Jim Hoffman
Version 0.9, May 16, 2006

Today, the DOD released two videos from Pentagon security cameras, through JudicialWatch.org. One of the videos includes the five frames leaked in 2002. The new frames, including several from a different camera, add almost nothing to the body of public evidence about the Pentagon attack on 9/11/01. Since the new videos don't show an airplane, they promise to fuel debates about what hit the Pentagon, rather than put them to rest.

The US government has for years refused to release video evidence that might undermine the popularity of no-Boeing theories. Today's release did not include video recordings from nearby businesses seized by the FBI within minutes of the attack.

Judicial Watch's Freedom of Information Act Request, filed on December 14, 2004, is similar to another request by different plaintifs, documented at Flight77.info. Both sought to obtain all of the camera recordings of the attack, including those from other Pentagon security cameras, ones seized from the Sheraton National Hotel and Nexcomm/Citgo gas station, and those managed by the Virginia Department of Transportation. The Pentagon had refused to release its recordings before today, claiming they were "part of an ongoing investigation involving Zacarias Moussaoui."

Most people who have heard of challenges to the official account (that cells of al Qaeda operatives were solely responsible for the attack) have heard of the theory that the Pentagon was not hit by a jetliner. The theory has been in circulation since early 2002, with the Hunt the Boeing website and Thierry Meyssan's Big Lie and Le Pentagate. The "no-Boeing" theories, which come in small-plane, missile, and truck bomb, variants, have flourished in the vacuum of video evidence, and served as a straw man with which to smear all challenges to the official account of the attack.

The refusal of authorities to release video evidence has been cited by supporters of Pentagon no-jetliner theories as evidence that Flight 77 wasn't there. If the government has proof that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, why doesn't it make it public? Perhaps because it serves the cover-up to keep the sideshow debate about what hit the Pentagon going. In 2004, I suggested that the question of what hit the Pentagon was a huge distraction. Analysis of physical evidence of the crash shows that what's known of the damage and debris fits the crash of Flight 77.

Today Mike Berger was interviewed on ABCNews.com for the story New Tape Stirs Up 9/11 Conspiracy Theories. Rather than take the opportunity point out that the no-Boeing theory is a distraction, Berger stated:

Four-and-a-half years later, we still don't have definitive proof that a plane hit that building.

Mike Berger may not have grasped the implications of saying there is not proof that a plane hit the Pentagon, but it necessarily implies the following:

1. That the scores of accounts of a large plane are either faked or coerced.
2. That the damage to the Pentagon, including an approximately 100-foot-wide expanse of punctured facade walls on the first floor, were somehow produced by a means other than a plane.
3. That fires that smelled like burning jet fuel, running about 200 feet across the facade of the Pentagon, were prod