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First Responder Networks 5 Years After 9/11
stinkymountain writes, "Five years after 9/11, you'd think all of the nation's first responders would be on a state-of-the-art wireless network that would enable police, fire and other emergency personnel to talk to each other in case of a disaster. But they're not -- yet. Network World ran an investigative piece sketching why progress has been so slow, and describing the progress that has been made." The article leads off with a scenario that represents the toughest possible test for a first-responder network. Even the best imaginable networked system might bog down in the midst of "fog of war" situations.
Here's a chance to bring a shit load of money to your districts WITHOUT it being considered pork! Duh!
Reading about how the radios could not communicate inside of certain buildings I wonder if it might make sense to include an "emergency" channel in wireless networking equipment. After all, many warehouses have wireless access points setup for their mobile inventory devices.
This 802.11 emergency channel that could be activated and used by emergency personell equipped with special radios - kind of a "skype-911".
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A local Fire/Police organization was recently trying to upgrade their radios to a newer system. The project failed spectacularly with huge cost overruns and was eventually cancelled. Their solution? Award a virtually identical contract to the same vendor for the same system. The problem is government...wasteful spending brought on by too many years of overfunding. Where a $5 solution would suffice, they ALWAYS spend $500. The solution? I dunno, anarchy maybe.
The department, and the concept. Unfortunately, it was just a tool for the government to pretend to do something about the problem - the illusion of safety, if you will. For all the whining Americans do about having to pay taxes, you'd think they'd demand that the department do its fucking job.
Like a lot of things, this is one problem that cries out "Something must be done! This is something; therefore, it must be done."
It's easy to look at the communication failures on 9/11 and recognize we need a better way of doing things. And it seems like a fairly simple problem that can be solved by a neat, tidy bureaucratic process. But as the example of the warehouse full of refigerators shows, it's really not that simple.
Dark Reflection
Why use broadband? I am trying to understand why the SWAT team lost communication in the building? Do they used a centralized system? It is impossible for each SWAT member to talk peer to peer with each other SWAT team member?
Come on people streaming video is nice but not at the expense of calling for help.
Maybe they should start carrying a few simple HTs as back up for their super wiz-bang system.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Probably the biggest single reason is the lack of available spectrum needed to support broadband wireless devices for public-safety radios.
That is finally about to change. The FCC has mandated that TV stations give up the 700MHz channels and that bandwidth be available for broadband public safety applications. Unfortunately, that switch wont occur until February 2009.
It strikes me that in this article, they're just using 9/11 to shock people into seeing a problem that was *already there to begin with*.
The warehouse shootout they mentioned probably would've happened the way it did, 9/11 or not, and the departments would still have complained that they needed more funding for better comms gear than they can afford.
The federal government not only should have figured out standards for first responder radios, it ought to have provided the radios to all first responders. Any time you hear a politician compare the Al Queda threat to WWII, try to remember that if President Roosevelt had responded in the slow, unfocused manner President Bush has, we would all be speaking german now. In WWII, this country completely transformed its economy in less than 2 years to rapidly produce ships, planes and tanks. In 2006, we can't even get working radios. How the mighty have fallen.
I love the picture at the bottom of Dana Hansen, manager of wireless networks for the city. She stares victoriously into the distance, hands on hips, and proudly proclaims "Our radios didn't work in the building ... The SWAT team had to do a workaround."
Way to go team!
How does a 7-person democracy cut a pie? Into 4 pieces.
Five years after 9/11, you'd think all of the nation's first responders would be on a state-of-the-art wireless network that would enable police, fire and other emergency personnel to talk to each other in case of a disaster.
Five years after 9/11 you'd think we would have reformed our INS department, so that people who pose no threat could gain citizenship with more ease, and people who might be a threat were deported.
Five years after 9/11 you'd think we would have the most secure airlines in the world, with sensible screening processes, yet we do not.
Five years after 9/11 you'd think we would have had an honest review of our interventionist foreign policies since the end of the cold war, by Bush, Clinton, and GW Bush yet this hasn't happened.
Five years after 9/11 you'd think we would have made more progress in developing our own energy, or finding alternative fuels to use.
The only conclusion we can draw is that government, especially big government moves slowly, and is not doing the will of the American public. The American public is just too distracted to care. I blame world of warcraft.
Link to printable version : http://www.networkworld.com/cgi-bin/mailto/x.cgi?p agetosend=/export/home/httpd/htdocs/research/2006/ 090406-sept11-first-responders.html
It appears the article failed to look at all 50 states and only take tidbits from different areas that have an issue. It states that DC is #1 in the nation for preparedness; however, if you check it would be the State of Ohio.
After multiple years (starting well before 9/11) and Millions of Public Dollars, Ohio offically rolled out MARCS (Multi Agency Radio Communication System)in 2004-05. The system has towers in all 88 Ohio counties and bosts coverage of 98% of the state (some of the terrain in Southeastern Ohio prevents total coverage). MARCS has enabled all agencies, whether it be the State Highway Patrol, EMA, County Sherriff's, City Police, and other responders, to communicate with each other without restrictions.
MARCS has also been studied by other states that are in the process of implementing their own first responders network. The article would have been better if it looked at all 50 states because while those mentioned might not be ready, I am sure there are others Like Ohio that have deployed or in the proccess of deploying multi-agency networks.
Stay inside your cubicles and be forwarned, the government hating trolls are at it again, and again, and again ... and I'm certian there's more to come.
Another problem is that in many cases, those who make the decisions on what to buy have no experience in using the equipment. They believe whatever the sales reps tell them and the end users get stuck with equipment that works poorly while getting told that there is nothting wrong with it. Public Safety personell are cursed with equipment that does not work as well as the equipment they used to use.
I know this because I work in public safety and we have this problem. 800 Mhz systems are being pushed heavily right now, yet nobody thinks of the problems. Sales reps gloss over problems, saying that these systems will work so much better than the VHF systems they are replacing. But these new radio systems work in the same general frequency range as the cell phones everybody has. How many times are your calls dropped because you drove into a valley or walked into a building? How would you like to be an officer searching for an armed suspect when that happens? I have had that happen, and trust me, it is not a good feeling when it does.
The sales reps will say you don't need any extra tower sites for the new system, what you have will be more than enough. But for decent coverage in the UHF band you need your antennas on the high ground so you can cover the low areas of your coverage area and you need a lot of them. Cell phone companies understand this and put their towers on the high ground near areas of heavy usage. Unfortunately, public safety does not get anywhere near as many, and those that they do have are often set up where they already have land, such as the back yard of fire stations. These are frequently not in the best location geographically for radio coverage, and money is not spent on obtaining decent transmitter locations.
Sales reps don't care about this. All they care about are sales. They know that once the sale is made, they are out of there and it is no longer their problem, but the buyer's. Sounds a lot like the IT field, doesn't it?
There are 4 types of liars (in order):
4. Liars
3. Pathalogical Liars
2. Car Salesmen
1. Sales Reps
So remember the Dispatchers saying, "Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts."
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
FTA: With IP, SWN can upgrade radio software over the network and provide mobile data support.
The state of software security being what it is, I wonder if the next major attack would not be accompanied by a day zero exploit of a bug in the radio software that renders all the radios useless because the bad guys uploads some bad software. Vendor diversity in radios may be beneficial just as it is in operating systems.
The biggest obstacles appear to be FCC inaction and DHS failure to supply funding. The problems were apparent and being widely discussed days after 9/11.
One year after 9/11, lack of progress could be fairly attributed to the complexity of the problem.
Five years after, it begins to look like incompetence... or lack of will... or both.
The Manhattan Project took four years from start to successful use of the finished product in wartime conditions.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I'll throw out my totally uninformed opinion out there, hopefully to have it quashed by someone "in the know."
Exit signs and emergency lighting that work on backup power are required by building codes. Why not require a small, adjustable, signal repeater in every large building / on every floor of a major building? Obviously I'm just pulling a solution out of thin air, but why isn't something like this pushed harder? The hardware can't be that hard to lay your hands on, and by putting the onus on the business rather than the county, it saves money. Hell, subsidize them for buildings that need a retrofit.
But then I supposed it's harder to do that than it is to suckle at the juicy tit of federal Homeland Security money. Why be practical when you can put an 11 million dollar spending bill on your re-election resume.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
Very strange, I'm not sure either. You'd think that even BEFORE 9/11 happened, NORAD would have known about the planes' diverted flight path (and if not the first plane, the second one at least..??) ...but for some reason they had no idea.
Talk about strange.
You'd think that 5 years after this horrible disaster, all of this "homeland security", increased taxpayer spending, would at least help us prepare for another homeland strike..but for some reason, most of us feel more at risk than before 9/11. Even our president tells us it could happen at any time, and the only thing to do is "fight the terrorists".
Talk about eerie...
I'm 26, young and still have a lot of fight left in me...but I'm scared for the older people that are sitting at home, watching CNN/Fox news, scared that a terrorist will blow their house up. Or the kids (the kids!) who don't understand why two huge buildings "just fell down"... For some reason, these billions and billions of taxpayer dollars that are supposed to be going toward helping us all feel better about the security of a nation...just isn't there.
Talk about a completely unbalanced proportion. 5 years later, we still don't know what happened on 9/11.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Money: there's not enough of it. There never is.
Greed: everyone from vendors to politicos wants a big piece of the pie, which just inflates the total cost
Perceived urgency: Fast, good, cheap, pick two.
This is pretty much the same as the e-voting systems and other do-it-now big-government projects.
Solution:
1) Prioritize and get a handle on what the cost of saying "no, not this year, maybe next year" is for each project. Not every police department needs the latest technology.
2) Make it clear to vendors that agencies WILL delay purchases if they believe it will save money or lives in the long run. Technology is getting cheaper by the day. If having high-tech gear today rather than 2016 saves 3 lives, but the money is pulled from another project that could have saved 4 lives, you've just killed someone.
3) Make it clear that private industry will be bidding against in-house projects, projects from other government entities, and "the clock" - the estimated cost of doing the project later + the "security/convenience" cost of delaying or canceling the project.
4) Meaningful measures to prevent or manage cost overruns and delays, particularly those the vendor could have prevented but also those caused by the client or outside forces.
#3 puts an effective cap on the cost of the project: any bid over this amount will be rejected. If no bids are below this amount, the project is delayed or canceled.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Consider that we're dealing with DHS, the largest organization within the US Gov... and they were just formed out of a bunch of large US Gov organizations that have little to no track record of playing well together. DHS is distracted by it's own internal problems and they have little energy to spend on solving the problems of local first responders. They have leadership with significant attitude as well, not to mention that they think that their authority means they know it all too... They believe they are Large and in Charge...
DHS is headed by "Big-Bang" specialists that, once they get around to it, will attempt to devise a large centralized plan that they will attempt to roll out or roll over on the first responders... some day in the far distant future. Remember the line, Hi, I'm from the Government, and I'm hear to help... Well, be afraid, be very afraid.
DHS will follow the same pattern that large Government orgs have been following for years. What they won't do is actually help to facilitate local first responders any time soon. They're just too distracted getting organized to pay too much attention to the little guys.
States and big cities are going to be on their own for some time and even with good direction, coordination, and leadership from DHS, it will still be the local governments that will have to do the heavy lifting. Local governments should realize that it's their business in the first place to protect their local populations. If your local governments are sitting around waiting for the DHS to move, I suggest that you pay close attention to this topic next time you vote for your state and local representatives. They are the ones with direct influence over the first responders that your life may depend on.
Sorry to post anon, my dept would likely dismiss me otherwise would that it appeared I spoke on anyone's behalf save my own.
The frank problem isn't technology, regardless of what the article might suggest - it's simply funds.
Let me explain:
I am fortunate in that I also work for a Govt agency in addition to a local muncipality, and in terms of COMMS, the primary difference is not our network backbone (trunked, talk grouped, encrypted 800 MHz), but our portables. My Govt radio can seemlessly go from standard Tx/Rx to peer-to-peer (5 mi) to repeater, and at $8000 each, you also so be pleased to note they work in almost from inside almost all structures. These radios (Motorola) are built like tanks, and if you can break them by anything short of running one over with a Bradley (...), I'll be impressed.
My city radio, also a Moto, can do standard Tx/Rx and peer-to-peer in a 3 mi radius - it performs admirably inside most structures, but I do note a significant amount of signal degradation inside most hospitals (which are built to isolate, so not a very surprising find). At $4000 each, they can hardly be called cheap - build quality is nearly identical to my Govt radio, and to an otherwise well meaning city comptroller, 2 radios are a better "best value to the city" than 1.
A complicating factor, which I cannot address without taking sides, is the problem of Command - **THIS IS NOT POLITICAL** - rather, it still remains unclear, even with NIMS guidance, who ultimatly should take charge of an emergency: Fire Vs. Rescue Vs. Police? Military Vs. Civ? Local Vs. State? State Vs. Federal? DHS Vs. FBI? The list goes on indefinatly, and there are strong points on each side as to whom is most qualified to assume the lead - it's unfortunatly we only engage in that debate as the emergency unravels.
Anyhow,
Will opening the 700 MHz band help? Certainly.
Will new COMM nets, meshes, and such help? Clearly.
But give me an extra $4000, and it will help me more today.
A fundamental problem with these solutions, is that they're solutions looking for a problem.
Yes, traditional radio communications for first responders don't interoperate well and aren't as 'advanced', but let's look at the solutions. They're proposing digital systems, transmitting in the 800 and 700Mhz range. In other words; microwave technology. Easily blocked by walls, not very long range.
If you wanted short range, but very advanced, digital communications, there are already solutions for that on the market. Cell-phones. 911 calls already take priority on cell networks, just tell the operators to reserve 10% bandwidth for emergency services, and you instantaneously have a huge network at your fingertips; well designed, more transmitters where there are more people, etc.
It still won't work properly in buildings. In Europe they're actually suggesting that the "next generation" system for first responders used here would mean forcing building owners to install repeaters on their sites (on their own dime, too). You just know that's going to be a success!
How to solve this? You really just need the best of both worlds. Make cell networks give you bandwidth and get some standard handsets with perhaps additional software for encryption/push-to-talk; and rely on a SECOND system (yes, I said it, a second system) for those hard to reach places where you need longer wave frequencies and more wattage to penetrate the walls. That'd be for tactical use, as a backup, etc. Good old, interoperable analogue.
Hey presto. Plenty of bandwidth, pretty good networks (which if need be, you can always spend additional tax payers' money on to upgrade in places where it's weak or to make it more disaster resistant*). Not needed; proprietory next-gen non-standard gear, extra frequencies, etc.
[*] if needed. In reality nowadays, cell networks are often up and running sooner after a disaster than other networks; just wheel in mobile base-stations with a generator and a microwave line-of-sight linkup (or even satellite) and you're golden.
Yes, you'd have to work out some issues, but overall this should be a better solution. Let's not forget that in Europe the railways have their own cell networks (GSM-R; 35 networks, all using nicely standardized off-the-shelve equipment).
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The reason why it hasn't happened is that WE DON'T WANT IT OR SEE THE NEED FOR IT.
I do NOT want cops polluting my tactical channels with their blather. Do any of you own scanners? Take a listen to EMS, Fire, Law Enforcement, and Air Traffic channels. None of these groups want anybody else to contend with when the shit is hitting the fan. The vocabulary is different. The lingo is different. The culture is different. It's hard enough at an emergency scene to keep traffic to a minimum between the various commands, let alone adding several more channels that someone has to monitor, and shout over.
This is why NIMS and Unified Command exist. The various agencies can talk to each other IN PERSON since they're face-to-face, and then relay the messages via their radio frequencies to their people.
We don't want it. We don't need it. If you want to see how we operate in an emergency, ask to be an observer at the Command Post the next time your local jurisdiction does a mass-casualty drill. Airports do them on a grand scale once per year to once every two years. The regional Counterterrorism Task Forces do them once per year. Your regional Emergency Management Agency does it once per year. Watch and learn. We don't need more crap on the radio.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
To re-phrase it so its understandable to folks who don't work government contracting -- it was Halliburton-style bidding.
It seems to me as if slow responses are the thing the US excells at. Just take a look at the way the Katrina disaster was being handled. New Orleans maybe big, but still finding bodies after one year is IMVHO purely ridiculous. Thats not even happening in poor countries when a disaster or earthquake or tsunami hits. But the mightiest country in the world however...
I think its in the nature of the way things progess there. There are just too many people who's attitude ends at the edges of their job description. The moment something occurs which is out of their contract its "I wasn't hired for that". No, gee, wouldn't you think that a little effort on your part would eventually benefit the whole company you work for? Guess not.
So far the aftermath with disasters like these have been nothing but negative. Like learning about ignored experts warning about soon to be collapsing levi's up to people at NORAD who become very excited the moment they learn that the hijacking of the plane entering the tower was actually for real ("This is no drill, we have at least 6 planes being hijacked" "No drill? Cool!" - source: NORAD tapes). About 9/11... The thought alone that several people were actually being send back up to the towers after which they eventually died totally fills me with disgust and disdain.
This isn't merely a rant about how awfull the whole situation looks when you're looking back at it. This is also not a rant about the stupidity of NORAD who actually lost the location of the White House at some point and who, if they did got clearance to take the plane down, would have attacked several totally unrelated airliners. If it wasn't for the slow wheels of bureacracy....
The bottom line of all this? I'd say that the goverment has a helluva lot more to fix, clean up and merely get back into gear before worrying about minor details like these.
Your cost-benefit formula is fine, but it is not clear to me how you estimate the cost in lives of the buy-vs-don't-buy options. The problem with terrorism is that successful attacks are largely unpredictable and any specific details warning of an attack are usually not available with sufficient lead time to respond by enhancing communications systems. (ie once you have hard info, it's too late to decide) I'm sure an actuarial approach could take a stab at estimating the cost in lives, but I expect such an approach would be limited by a serious lack of good data on the benefits of the advanced radios. Until you collect the data you are facing an unknown level of risk. At that point people just go ahead and buy the radios now...
...we have an old VHF system. The city fire department, police department and sheriff office in our area are all on digital 800 Mhz systems. In order to upgrade the county fire departments, there would have to be enough money to upgrade handheld radios of over 250 firefighters at about $800 a piece. Not to mention to repeaters and such that some departments have. Don't forget the personally owned radios that the firefighters have in their vehicles, too. Of the five volunteer departments in the county, with about 50 certified firefighters (they test and train just like the paid firefighters), new radios could break any budget unless federal grant money comes in.
Sig: I stole this sig.
A ten kiloton nuclear weapon goes off in the heart of downtown Manhattan tomorrow.
How's that for a test? Certainly Iran is doing everything in its power to make this a real possibility...
- Crow T. Trollbot
Even in the nearby city of Portland, Maine -- with less than 1/30 the population of NYC, there are fire trucks with repeaters in them which can be dispatched to locations around the city if the system is down for one reason or another.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
If we have learned ANYTHING in the last 5-10 years of trying to make wireless work it is that wireless is not reliable. It didn't work on 9/11 (ask the policemen and firemen). How are we going to make it work now? Wireless has too many issues with buildings, security, etc to be useful in another similar situation. Plus, if someone really wanted to make things messy all they would have to do is jam the emergeny frequencies being used.
Nick
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
The article didn't mention TETRA, which is an existing technology for first responder networks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_R adio.
Freevo - Linux Multimedia Jukebox
Back when I was an EMT for an ambulance company, we had 4 banks of radios we listened to. UHF, VHF, digital, and another portable digital. We talked to our dispatch ceneter on VHF, town A's fire dept on UHF, town A's police dept on digital, Town B's fire dept on VHF, Town B's police on portable digital, and then a few other agencies mixed in there as well. It was confusing at first learning which radio to talk to depending on which town's district and what type of a call you were on.
The fire dept I'm on now has been fiddling with trying to get a radio system down. They've gone from analog to digital back to analog, and now digital again. Some people say the digital signal isn't as strong as the analog. Our digital radios don't talk to our police dept. at all. The PD recently went to digital radios, but we still can't talk to them. We have to relay everything through dispatch. As an example, we were on SWAT standby a few nights ago. We staged out and saw a police officer waving his light at us, so we drove on in. As we came in, they yelled at us to get out of there because the scene wasn't safe yet. So we staged again around the corner. Break down in communications? I'd say so.
We also have Toughbook laptops and GSP tracking on all of our rigs. If the system worked reliably, it would be great. Supposedly the GPS coordinates are relayed to the dispatch computers for each call to determine who is closest. Info on each call from dispatch can be seen in the rig as it is entered in the comm center as well as real time mapping to map us into a call. Fairly often the system doesn't update fast enough or crashes and the officer has to pull out the run books to map us into the call. Not that using the old books is bad, but having to make the switch enroute to a call ain't good.
There are channels that have been set aside for interagency operations. They are labeled based on which side of the metro area the call is in. I know the fire protection district next to ours has only in the last few months gotten radios that will let them talk in that new system.
Money is a big issue. Not everyone can afford to get digital radios and antennas throughout their districts. It would be nice if everyone was on the same page. What happens for example when one of the districts that still uses analog radios responds for mutual aid to a district that is covered with digital radios?
As long as the govt has their hands in it, the problem will never get solved.
FF/EMT
Colorado
I'm an officer in a fire department. A much smaller department of course -- but we all study the same issues and see the same FEMA, NFPA, etc. bulletins.
The problems at the trade center were not so easily blamed on radios. Katrina related issues in New Orleans however, were influenced a great deal by radio communication problems.
That said, here are some things to consider:
1. Most departments are NOT like FDNY. 86% of firefighters in the USA are "on-call" not live in full timers. 96% of departments in the USA are staffed in part or in whole by on-call firefighters, and 40% of the population is protected by these "volunteers". Focusing on FDNY and their issues on 9/11 isn't doing a service to the real problem.
2. With Katrina, every cell tower, every radio repeater, and all the power for thousands of square miles was down. Trucks with portable backup repeaters couldn't operate in the deep water and muck. With no communication, fire crews are acting as islands and cut off from knowing where emergencies are or from getting help. Police had the same problem, but the added issue of a populace which would rather fight them then help them.
Now, taking that knowledge in hand, let's talk about what has happened since 9/11 in my little department. Since 9/11 here's what's changed:
1. Every member of my department has their own radio at all times. This is unusual for rural departments - or was. These radios are not cheap. They run about $1500 each. Remember, not just any radio will do -- they must be "intrinsically safe" (meaning no internal sparks) and must stand up to some fairly serious abuse.
2. Every member of my department (and most in other departments I've spoken to) has complete the now required "NIMS" (National Incident Management System) training and certification process at levels 100 and 700. Most town leaders have also completed this training. Officers such as myself also complete NIMS 300, while chiefs complete several more. This system is set up so that in an escallating emergency all responders are on the same page from a language, radio traffic, procurement, authorization, authority, and responsibility perspective as an incident grows from a single unit response to a multi-state task force. The system is patterned after a very successful program used for years by the forest service.
3. Although most towns still use their own frequencies on their radios, in our area all the towns which are adjacent and most which are one town removed are pre-programmed on our radios. There is also a statewide non-repeated frequency so that any firefighter on the fireground has a way to communicate.
4. I am told, though I have not seen, that for very large incidents equipment exists that allows high level incident management teams from the federal level to respond and "slot in" a radio from each local jurisdiction. This device acts as a switch of some kind, bridging the radio systems on the fly. I'm told a decision on how far down the chain that technology will be pushed is still in the works.
5. Even in our little town of under 10,000; we've gotten together with nearby towns and drilled at mass casualty and hazardous materials incidents.
Now, if you think there are more things we should do, consider that most "volunteers" (remember, that's 86% of firefighters) put in more than 50 hours a year of unpaid training time as it is. Where were you?
The people who understand the failings in the 911 response but are not part of the chain of command are other firefighters. All of us, around the country, can point to things the FDNY did wrong. It's easy to do after the fact. We're also the most reluctant to do so. Our brothers may have made mistakes, but they did a lot of things right in the face of terrible danger and stress. We're reluctant to point fingers. That doesn't mean we don't discuss it among ourselves and in our training.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
Five years after 9/11, you'd think all of the nation's first responders would be on a state-of-the-art wireless network that would enable police, fire and other emergency personnel to talk to each other in case of a disaster.
I almost choked reading that. I'm a volunteer fireman and know first hand what's out there, at least in rural areas. Communication is exclusively radio out where we are and you have to hope someone knows the freq for the other department or the wing if you're waiting for air lift. We don't have enough working radios for everyone in the department, our pagers don't work half the time, we have to buy our own replacement batteries and our turnout gear would have been classified unusable by most departments 10 years ago. I pulled an air mask off the truck the other day and the air hose fell off. We have a squad that leaks...something, we haven't figured out if it's brake fluid or transmission fluid. The windshield wipers will only work when the wig-wags are on and the windshield is so cracked it looks like a New Jersey road map. You can't roll the windows down, even on a hot day, cause there's only a 50-50 chance they'll go back up. We get grant money, which is supposed to replace our old gear, until the city took the funds so they could build a new community center.
State of the art communications...hahahahahaha! I'd settle for a squad that didn't feel like a death trap, some turnout gear made in the last ten years, a decent air pack and a working radio. Big city departments are far better equiped than we are but those resources would be overwhelmed in a big crisis. There's not enough decon gear and no one out away from city departments gets training on how to use it anyway. If anything, we're even more poorly prepared for a disaster than before 9/11 and definitely more poorly prepared than when Katrina struck. We're not only not making progress, in most places we're taking giant steps backwards.
But while we are struggling with Viet Nam era equipment, the richest city in the area gets themselves a brand new terrorist response vehicle. Picture an armored SUV. So we get dick and richest city in the area, the most unlikely place on the planet for a terrorist attack, gets a shiny new armored car that they'll never use. That doesn't even touch trying to figure out the chain of command in a regional disaster. FEMA has been hobbled, DHS wants to be in charge but never drills with the local departments so we all know how it's supposed to work in an emergency. If anything we're LESS prepared for a disaster nationally than ever before. And that failure is a failure of leadership.
State of the art communications....BWAHAHAHAHAHA! My sides hurt from laughing so hard.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Micahel moore told me 9/11 was caused by the cralyle group in cahoots with Gerorge Bush and the Jews, so this is not going to be a problem after 2008 when there is a democrat in power. The the only thing we have to be concrened with is a missile hitting a pentagon.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
The problem of interopperability between 1st responders suffers from insoulable technical problem in it's current form.
1) The 800MHz trunking systems rely on a limited number of high power repeaters. In Hurricane Katrina, the storm removed these towers from the face of the earth. Due to their cost and their line of site coverage, it is not possible to have enough spare units available to bring up a replacement system in short order. Furthermore, 800MHz is not suited for use in steel structures.
2) The 800 MHz trunking systems make use of the land lines to tie portions of the system together. If these lines are damaged, the system breaks down.
3) Terrain affects the trunking systems the same way it affects cell phones. In the case of the trunking system, there are fewer towers, so the possibility of not having coverage is very great in mountainous or hilly terrain. Other frequencies are not as severly affected by terrain.
4) The systems proposed since 9/11 are usually limited in the number of bands covered. This is is a technical design vs cost issue.
5) Most (almost all) 1st responders lack the technical expertise to setup or repair a system under nortmal conditions. In an emergency there is no possible way for the 1st responders are able to restore their communications. Most agencies rely on their vendor to provide service and support. These repair people are usually evacuated with the general population and are not available to provide service. They are not considered 1st responders.
A better solution would be to employ a multi-band solution that combines the trunking system as well as traditional land mobile frequencies at 150MHz and 470MHz. These additional frequencies permit operation in either simplex mode or in repeater mode whill still providing the interoperability capability provided by the trunking systems. They also work over a wider range of terrains. The addition of extra frequencies will complicate the command post. The system may also required skilled dispatchers capable of making cross band signal patches happen.
To further enhance communications, 1st responders should get as many of their people licensed as ham radio operators. Many ham radio operators practice emergency communications for disasters. This includes deploying emergency communications systems in the field. In all probability, ham radio systems will be the first communications systems restored in a disaster. This is essentially a no cost communications system enhancement that adds options not otherwise available.
The only number a user can dial is an emergency earthquake voicemail number (which is only active in the emergency situation...don't ask me how they test it). When you connect, you type in your own mobile number and you can leave a message saying where you are, that you are OK (or that you need assistance), etc.
People outside the area can call a different number (IIRC) to connect, type in your mobile number, and hear your message.
The rest of the network is exclusively for emergency personnel. Not a bad idea, IMHO...
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Been there, done that. Look up "access overload class". That's how CDMA does it. Mere mortals are 0-9, depending on the last digit of your phone number. Phone techs, emergency personnel, and government can get higher ACCOLC settings.
I'd assume other networks are similar but I don't have direct experience.
26 years as a Firefighter/Fire Engineer/EMT. The article is media politico garbage. Reporters and politicians should put on a SCBA and full turnout gear, or body armor and weapon and spend 1 day training. There is no radio/communications system that will overcome all environments. Get real. Hopefully I will never again have a building collpase on me and my company, but if it does I am going to be more concerned that those I am working with can think quickly enough to find a solution. Communications are always improving, but those who really know nothing about it should not find fault until they really examine the realities. ICS and Span of control have taught us a lot. Too many people communicating at one time leads to chaos.
If they aren't going to work in an emergency that they are theoretically present to help respond against, then aren't they worst than useless?
If they fail when people are trying desperately to use them then they are worse then never implementing that system at all. Then at least nobody would be let down by their failure and have to find alternative methods to communicate during the emergency.
Plus, how many resources does the government waste spending billions on computers systems and communication networks that fail when they are most needed?
Here is a clue. If you pay to have systems designed and people die because they didn't work, then we string up the public official who was responsible and let them slowly hang by the neck until they themselves die. Publicly. Public officials should be held to a higher standard not a lower one.
The people who fail America and get Americans killed because of those failures are guilty of being traitors and should be treated as such.
At least multipath problems won't be such an issue without so many buildings to contend with...
/window seat, please.
Fog of War == Blind as a Bat
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I was told by a friend @ sprint that once sprints walkie talkie technology is as good as the nextels click to talk sprint will be selling/leasing the nextel network entirely to the US Gov't.
While some say coverage on nextels is poor (which it is) the click to talk part is always right on. we are able to use it in the basement tunnels at our location with decent performance... phone calls are another matter.
this technology has matured over the years to almost a point of perfection according to some... once sprint gets their system up to par... the gov't will have exclusive use of nextels network.... and will be able to (hopefully) rebuild their first responder system based upon nextels technology.... once its in gov't hands I would assume coverage would improve... and by standardizing they would be able to deploy one type of antenna to a disaster area and have everybody on the same page.
this system works for an entire country full of contractors... so I'd imagine it'd have more than enough bandwith/channels for the gov'ts use.
my 2 cents
Just turn Fog of War off in the options before you start the game.
First of all I can not believe anyone would consider using the internet for something as vital as emergency response team communication.
The second thought that popped into my head was a VERY big question. "If Telcos can get people to move away from a neutral internet, will more of my tax dollars be required to insure that the Telcos do not throttle communications during an emergency?"
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Even if they tried to keep a part of the system open for users to make regular calls, it would soon be completely swamped and useless anyway. That is why they have the voicemail system set up. Also, I do believe that there is a way to contact emergency personnel through the emergency system for people who need immediate assistance. But you use the emergency voicemail system as a way of letting your family and friends know that you are OK and where they can find you.
Personally, I think it is better to pretty much garauntee that the system is open for emergency personnel to use than run the risk of having no communication at all because the system is completely flooded.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
I think that you are absolutely right. I am very concerned with the media pushing lateral communication problems. They seem concerned with a firefighter talking to a police officer way too much. In many cases these communities do not build repeater systems with a plan to cover the whole area. So how can you expect them to provide coverage in a building? My town has poor coverage in the local Wal-Mart, but they have poor handheld coverage in the whole area of the Walmart. No one in the police department has thought much about terrain and radio coverage at all. However, the real stinker is the cost. Motorola, ICOM, Vertex Standard, and others just charge TOO MUCH. I have heard many stories about pricing reasons and ham radio gear being subsidied, but really. Would you think that a VX-150 can cost $79(when I purchased two at this price) versus its commercial equivalent, which is completely the idential in the $600-$800 range? This is the real problem. The radio companies have complete control over the equipment pricing, and the procurement officers at government agencies don't know anything about the product being purchased. N1EY
... and while /.'ers spout short diatribes they delude themselves with the illusion of technology: trying to fix social problems with technology-centric solutions.
And since we are speaking about 9/11, don't forget it was probably an inside job organized by your government: http://truth.provostdesigns.com/
Every time I read another exchange about the realities (or, to some, lies) of 9/11 I'm more convinced that it would be worthwhile to watch the CNN Pipeline free re-broadcast of Septmeber 11. 2001. They're going to show it free on Monday (9/11/2006) on their CNN Pipeline website http://www.cnn.com/pipeline/index.a.html from 8:30am onward- in "real time." Maybe it can settle some of these questions -- or at least add more perspective.
Hey, a routing/communications protocol called "L2R" (Layer 2 Routing) did this over 10 years ago, and works
incredibly well, so why the hell aren't they using it?
its so pathetically sad when this technology was around 5 years before this incident,
the US DOD was demonstrated that it worked ON sept 11 (yes the very day!)
they said they "couldn't afford" it...
I guess we can afford to have some buildings blown up and things, but not work out an agreement with a small-time company huh?
sheesh!
Bridging solutions like that tend to be dangerous. The first page of the story talks about Denver and how units can't talk to each other when they are outside the system coverage area. That happens more often than you think, especially in buildings or remote rural areas. Even worse is when you lose system coverage due to the very emergency you're responding to (forest fire or building collapse).
Having radios in the same frequency band that have a common mode of operation is extremely important.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
I've been a professional communications technician for a lot of years. My experience has been extactly what they found in NYC: It isn't the technology that fails to communicate, it's the people.
We can throw billions of dollars at this problem and replace all of the technology if we want. That's what they're doing now. But you still can't get cops to agree to talk to firefighters or vice versa. Interoperability has nothing at all to do with technology.
Where I live everyone uses analog radios, the easiest type of systems to make interoperate. I already have very simple, high quality and inexpensive methods that would allow users to interoperate. They don't use interoperate, but it's not for any lack of method. Instead, because "interoperability" is the buzzword and federal cash flow requires the use of the latest buzzwords, Idaho is attempting to scrap all of its working systems and replace them with new tech. Not one discussion has ever taken place in which they addressed getting one agency to talk to another. Nobody is interested in that, they don't want it and it will never happen.
Interoperability isn't a technical problem, it's a people problem.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
http://iridium.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=press_rel eases&item=767
With VHF (not sure on 800Mhz), we can still talk to each other if we are out of the repeaters range or area, we just can't get too far from each other. This is how that works (I'm guessing a bit here). Whenever you talk to a repeater, your radio has one freq. that talks to the repeater, and one that listens for traffic. When you go into Talkaround or OPS mode, you are simply transmitting on the channel that the repeater is transmitting on so that everyone can hear you that is within the range of your radio. I have a 5 Watt handheld radio, and a 45 Watt mobile radio in my car. If I am out of range of our departments repeater, I can switch to Talkaround, and with that 45 Watt power, I can talk to anyone within about a 3 mile radius (If I am able to hit the repeater, it is about a 20 mile radius). Dispatch's repeater can be heard and transmitted to from about 100 miles away, I am guessing that it is 100 Watt, and guessing that our departments repeater is 45 or 50. On the patching to the 800 Mhz systems, we can have central dispatch patch us in to the 800Mhz so that we can talk to each other, but it is a big mess to get dispatch to do anything for the Fire Departments around here other than tell us the numerics of the house address. This crap can get expensive and confusing. My handheld has a tendency of not working at all whenever I'm in a house that is really hot. There is nothing worse than asking for more or less pressure on a line and not getting a response when you are on the second story of a house at 200-400 degrees F.
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