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Why don't those fucking commies just go to HELL where all Godless creatures belong !!!

I was just responding your your calling them "godless communists", why would you say that when yourself agree that is not their choice?

I won't even mention that yet again Rudd seems to be bringing us into line with China

Howard would do exactly the same - it's the policy of trying to impress the people with the money. Rudd would have been doing the same with the USA if they had swapped places in time - possibly even the same blank cheque of Australian support Howard promised immediately after 911. I think the trade deal would have worked out a bit differently however since more competant people would have been involved that wouldn't have fallen for the bait and switch and would have been prepared to wait for the next round of meetings. Most likely as an intelligent human being you saw that Downer was one of the shining lights of the Liberal party and voted Labour - with less factionalism they might end up with enough talent at the top instead to be worth voting for instead. Listen to parliment and you will despair at the current Liberal crop and hope there are some backbenchers that are actually prepared to do some work instead of wait for government to fall at their feet as a reward for sitting on their arses for years.

I see two major attitudes in politics, those that see leadership as a job and those that see it as a reward to relax and enjoy. The Liberals are led by the latter and would be dangerous in power until they get more of the former - more Howards, or people like Abbout except with at least some honesty. Turnbull may be trying to manipulate his way to being Australia's first President but he'll just strut about and act important if he gets that instead of actually leading the country. He was not safe to trust in business (he screwed HIH just before it collapsed) and did nothing in government apart from an over the top complete ban on light bulbs and threatening to remove states rights over Howard's water plan. If he leads he would be our Nixon except nowhere near as competant - and he would just be wasting time trying to increase his constitutional power instead of actually running the country.

Enough ranting - Australian politics is a bit of a mess and we're being led by a guy that rose to prominance via a NIMBY campaign and the policies have to be aimed at Godless "Christians" that think that God hates poor people otherwise they will not pass. The only saving grace is there is some progress in some areas instead of a decade of nothing but selling off the farm to Mexican Bandits.

Godless communists.

Seriously though, how can software be free when the people aren't?

LK

Science and Religion are different bodies of knowledge, but not mutually exclusive

So, science may be compatible with going to church, living the ten commandments, or whatever else you like to do, but it's not compatible with belief in a god that has any power in any domain covered by a scientific theory.

This distinction is fine and the original statement is still true. Not all religions make assertions about the observable world, and only those that do (specifically the parts that do) are in conflict with science (which deals exclusively with what we can observe). Discussion of metaphysical concepts is (IMHO) the primary realm of religion and is in no way at odds with science. Belief (or disbelief) in these concepts doesn't clash with rational observation of our surroundings at all. Only the dogmatic aspects of religion conflict with a scientific worldview and these are exclusively the case for religious fundamentalism.

As an aside, I'm a scientist (a chemist) and not religious, but these stupid fights coming from misunderstandings of the "opposing" side are ridiculous and I'm sick of hearing them. Pretending that every religious person is a fundamentalist lunatic is just as counterproductive as pretending that every scientist is a godless Darwinian atheist.

It only happens in elite, godless, socialist societies.

With older NVIDIA cards, I have worse performance than on my EeePC (GMA 900).

Your old cards aren't as good as your new ones? shock! horror! Say it isn't so!

The GMA 900 is slower in games than a Geforce 6200, a several generations old budget GPU from nvidia. And anyway, nvidia have recently released a driver update that to a great extent fixed the problem with KDE, which suggests (as was already known) that the performance problem was indeed a driver issue.

But don't let random facts get in the way in your holy crusade against the godless open source zealots.

Just because something is bad doesn't make it terrorism.

And just because senator McCarthy said you were a communist didn't make you a fifth columnist supporting the nefarious schemes of the godless USSR.

Except, in practical terms - such as having a job and shit like that, it did.

Your metacommunism is doomed. Have fun, hippies. The Russians tried that and it flopped big time, I'm sure you'll do much better, with your inferior Linux software and godless inter-racial society.

Yours in Christ,
Hal Turner

The problem with gravity is that it's easy to test it. Don't believe it, try it. You usually don't have that luxury with Evolution

Actually you do have that luxury with Evolution to an extent. Evolution is always twisted to whoever is talking about it at the moment. I am not accusing you personally of doing that, but you certainly are demonstrating a misconception about evolution. That's the real problem with constructive dialogue regarding this whole stupid issue.

1) The "religious nutballs and born again christian whackjobs" all object to having their kids taught that man originated in any way that deviates from the good ol' bible.

2) The "Intelligent Design Quasi-Scientists" all object to their theories not being included as it works for their more liberal interpretations of a faith based interpretation of their reality and they strongly assert that their explanations and models are just as valid as any other theory.

3) The "Heathen godless scientists that-will-burn-in-hell" all object to any thing being taught in a school that does not directly conform to the "holy" scientific method for measuring, quantifying, and verifying our reality.

The simple truth is that there are TWO SIDES to evolution.

One is that evolution is a FACT. It is an observable property of biological life in this planet that is indisputable. We have more than enough evidence to show that lifeforms have an ever continual process of adaption to their environment. That is called Evolution. DUH. You can feel that, test it, hold it, smoke it, blah blah blah.

Two is, and what everyone involved with also has to admit, is that WE HAVE NO DIRECT EVIDENCE THAT PROVES THAT MAN EVOLVED FROM ANY OTHER LIFE FORM ON THIS PLANET. We just have reasonable guesses. That's it. Therefore, in the context of explaining man's origins on earth, THE PROPERTY THAT IS EVOLUTION IS ONLY PART OF A THEORY THAT EXPLAINS OUR ORIGINS! A THEORY!

I know that is not original and I am certainly not the first person to state that evolution can be both a theory and a fact. It depends on how you are using it to explain our reality. Gravity always means gravity. Evolution however is used so vaguely that is quite frankly frustrating and more than a bit silly.

It really is two different things. The solution is so fucking simple its ridiculous. Just teach about evolution as an observable property and don't start stating it as a fact (or law) that it explains our origins. In fact, you can explicitly not talk about it at all as it clearly has too many religious overtones for EVERYONE. Or you could just simply say that we don't know how man evolved on this planet, or how anything even started the process of evolution in the first place. We could say that there are theories based on science, religion, and a mix of the two that attempt to offer an explanation and leave it at that.

Will people actually do this?

FUCKING OF COURSE NOT. Why?

It serves as a vehicle for religious zealots, the scientists that embrace faith and the unknown and like to conform science around their religious beliefs (faith) to be comfortable, and the hard core scientists that won't believe anything exists until it is peer reviewed and published in journals to continue to argue and advance their own ideologies.

Basically, everyone involved is an asshole of some degree and is bending the truth and mangling the human language to advance their own side.

It's sad and pathetic.

I already has this conversation with my sibling who is in school and I told him the same thing. He relates to me how at his school (private) there are teachers that are pushing intelligent design, bringing bible passages to school to teach history, and how some students are actively arguing with other students about how Jesus teaches that evolution is wrong in science class. He said he would be afraid to mention this to the "Jesus freaks" since he would probably get hit in the face and that the teachers bri

Does it really matter if people were "commies"?

Its just a political ideology, and just like the rest of them, it has good points and bad points. Discriminating, or ruining peoples lives in this case, against people because you don't personally like their opinion is wrong.

Communism, at the time, was equated with Nazism. The US government, driven by hysteria on the part of a few blowhards whose sole purpose is to win re-election by sowing fear (gee, that sounds familiar) worked to make belief in any political ideology short of "Democracy" (we have never had that on a national level in the United States) illegal. As a member of a union I was forced to join (by nature of my work) I had to, in the 1990s sign a paper indicating that I was not a member of the Communist Party or any organization allied with Communism. Everyone who joins a union today still has to sign such a statement.

Frankly, when I signed that statement, I realized it was a direct violation of my rights as a citizen to associate with whom I wish and to believe in what I prefer to believe in.

As a part of our "campaign against godless Communism," Congress even went as far as to have a new motto imprinted on all of our money: "In God We Trust" and they also changed the Pledge of Allegiance to include under God after "One nation" and before "Indivisible."

These latter measures, designed to oppose Communism, have been "reinterpreted" by part of he political spectrum as proof that the United States is a "Christian nation" which I understand means "theocracy."

But it did matter if people were "commies." They lost their jobs and were forced to find other work, usually for a lot less pay. The blacklist didn't end until the 1960s and was a list of people "convicted" mostly on hearsay evidence with no trial.

The creepy thing about Bush is that he was using the same techniques Nixon used against journalists and others perceived to be "enemies." Everyone knows today that Nixon was extremely paranoid. I don't think Bush is paranoid like Nixon, he is just mean, like his mother.

And, with the President of the United States allowed to incarcerate anyone who he declares to be an "enemy combatant," your hatred of Bush, his policies, wars and Constitutional abuse makes you not anti-American as much as an "enemy combatant."

And I use that term, based on the Bush Administration's definition of "returned to the battlefield" applied to released inmates of Gitmo: Anyone who wrote an article or whose lawyer wrote an article or spoke out to describe their captivity was considered having "returned to the battlefield." So, I am assuming you spoke out about your dislike of the past administration.

How does it feel to be an "enemy combatant?"

By not doing it. I'm the devils advocate here, not a proponent. But they don't bother proving that point because it is assumed that if you are aroused by 'child porn' that makes you far more likely to be a pedophile.

Kind of like how back in the Cold War era they adopted the requirement for school children to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and altered it to include a reference to "One Nation under God" because it was suppose to keep the 'godless communists' away.

There is no logic behind the argument, its pure emotion and fundamentalism.

The worm initially spread to systems unpatched against MS08-067, but has since 'evolved

It hasn't evolved. This is clearly Intelligent Design and anyone denying this is a godless heathen!

Nope it evolved from a simplier program. Anyone who believes in a flying spaghetti coder is just ignorant.

It hasn't evolved. This is clearly Intelligent Design and anyone denying this is a godless heathen!

Unlike Windows, which is clearly not Intelligent Design. (Windows 7 is not the messiah, either - it's just a naughty service pack.)

The worm initially spread to systems unpatched against MS08-067, but has since 'evolved

It hasn't evolved. This is clearly Intelligent Design and anyone denying this is a godless heathen!

troll.

The worm initially spread to systems unpatched against MS08-067, but has since 'evolved

It hasn't evolved. This is clearly Intelligent Design and anyone denying this is a godless heathen!

Trying to apply the words "intelligent" and "design" to Windows makes you the AntiChrist.

The worm initially spread to systems unpatched against MS08-067, but has since 'evolved

It hasn't evolved. This is clearly Intelligent Design and anyone denying this is a godless heathen!

I remember vividly is the story of lot, who lost his wife and gained a pillar of salt when she disobeyed god's order and looked back to see what had become of the only home she had ever known.

Their "home" was a distinctly bad place to be. Considering that Lot was the only God-fearing man in the whole city, he made a poor decision in raising his family there.

They repaired to a cave where, thinking that they were the last of their people, lot's daughters got him drunk and seduced him for the purpose of continuing their race.

Point 1: They could have stayed at Zoar, but Lot was too afraid of the people. Mind you this was after he had just seen fire rain from heaven, which he had been rescued from – and watched God blind the men of Sodom to protect him and his family! Point 2: Lot's daughters had husbands. Oh wait, they were completely godless inhabitants of Sodom and they refused to leave the city – even when Lot and his daughters left without them. In contrast, Abraham had his servant travel a long way to find a God-fearing wife for son Isaac; Lot failed to provide similarly for his daughters.

Although incest is supposedly not a good thing even by this point in history, they are lauded for doing what they think is necessary for the purpose of continuing their people, though it wasn't even necessary.

Lauded? By whom? I've never heard anyone saying that what they did was right or even that anything good came from it! Keep in mind that Lot's grandchildren were Moab and Ammon, both of whom caused problems for Abraham's descendants later.

Lot, however, is considered to be a particularly good servant of god because he grabbed up his family and fled, never looking back, as he was told.

Eh, not really. He was a notably bad servant of God. He was selfish, fought with his uncle Abraham over their water, took the most fertile land when Abraham decided they'd have to split paths, and chose to raise his family in an extremely wicked region. I don't know who you've been reading.

I'm sorry, what's this about the Northeast being Godless and atheistic? Everyone here has a religion!

If you were a religious person from that area and you go to New England you would probably be equally annoyed living an such a godless immoral area of the world, where its local laws makes it near impossible for you to speak your faith.

he religious zeal of the South vs. a world where one feels embarrassed, or it is politically incorrect to speak about their faith of the North.

bullcrap. this is where the local laws make it near impossible for you to COMPEL OTHERS to observe your faith against their will, and I do mean compel.

seems that you are confusing religious majority for a particular area with the [maturity] and intelligence of the people in the area.

I don't think there's any confusion about it.

I come from a conservative jewish family. Many members are synagogue leaders. We are a religious family. We don't feel trampled by NE laws and we are not embarrassed to express our faith. Neither are the christians. They do, however, understand the boundaries between religion and logic, and between church and state, and in so doing understand how to respect the belief of others.

is all about perspective. Saying We are Better then Them, Is very dangerous type of talk.

I consider "better" (more accurately "maturity") to be a reflection of the willingness to operate by the ideals of human decency and human rights, and barring that at least by the constitution--the capacity to sacrifice your own selfish wishes for the greater good.

Interesting factoid: people with democratic or leftist bumper stickers are 70% more likely to be pulled over, but the cops who do it, who are predominantly right-wing, are far less likely even in the northeast to be taken to account for their abuses.

I think it says a lot about who actually believes in the adult idea of "live and let live".

Just as a person without faith feels oppressed in the south. A person of faith feels equally oppressed in the north.

This is the third repetition of this blatant right-wing echo-chamber lie.

In the south they do discriminate against you on multiple levels for not being "ultra-evangelical" and compel you to observe their faith in public institutions. (Do you think I made the gym coach thing up? How would you like to be held down into a seat and compelled to engage in idolatry?)

In the north they prevent this kind of discrimination, but go no further.