Cuba Launches Own Linux Variation

willclem writes "According to Reuters, it seems that Cuba has launched its own variation of Linux in order to fulfill its government's desire to replace Microsoft operating systems. 'Getting greater control over the informatic process is an important issue,' said Communications Minister Ramiro Valdes, who heads a commission pushing Cuba's migration to free software."

Comments

Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow I have a hard time picturing penguins in Cuba.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[pushing-robot]

Somehow I have a hard time picturing penguins in Cuba.

I don't.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[buswolley]

While I support adoption of open source, I am starting to get worries that it will get strongly labeled as Communist/Socialist.. now that China,Russia,and Cuba have all officially adopted it. Do you actually think that America would join them, even if it is in America's best interest?

It is kind of sad.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[GodKingAmit]

Since when is russia a communist or socialist country?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Zencyde]

Shit, you're worried? A friend of mine has been saying Linux is Communist for aeons.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just communists though. Adopting Linux is now just the cool thing to do. The linux effect is finally taking hold!

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[nawcom]

Somehow I have a hard time picturing penguins in Cuba.

Unfortunately you fail, for not all penguins live life on a frozen continent.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[zorkerz]

I agree that the connection of open source with Socialism in peoples minds and the negative effect this could have on its adoption worries me.

Beyond this though I am sick and tired of the irrational fear of socialism in the United States. Im not saying lets become the USSR that obviously did not work out so well but we are still stuck at a point were it is impossible to have rational discussion about anything that gets labeled as socialist. Its a giant hypocritical mess. Look at public roads thats a beautiful example of socialism central to our society.

I think generations of Americans have been conditioned/brainwashed to attack at the first mention of the word socialism before considering what is being proposed. The irony of it all is that public schools the major institution doing this brainwashing is a socialist model.

I don't believe that socialist systems work everywhere. I am a fervent capitalist and believe in designing free markets with appropriate incentives. All I want to do is be able to have a rational debate about plans that might contain socialist components without people freaking out.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[greenguy]

In Soviet Russia, Russia is a Soviet country!

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[VisceralLogic]

Bill Gates??? Is that you?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

While I support adoption of open source, I am starting to get worries that it will get strongly labeled as Communist/Socialist.. now that China,Russia,and Cuba have all officially adopted it. Do you actually think that America would join them, even if it is in America's best interest?

It is kind of sad.

You forgot Vietnam.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Zencyde]

Emphasis on "a friend of mine". :P If I were Billy I wouldn't be typing this from a Linux box... or maybe I would? Hmm....

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Who Is The Drizzle]

How long have you been friends with Ballmer?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Ian Alexander]

Hey, Americans are dumb (and really, the only place where being "socialist" is something you have to worry about really would be the US). Many probably still associate Russia with communism, even though it was socialist when it was Soviet and hasn't been Soviet for ~20ish years now.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[50_1337]

Public schools are a socialist model, as are the police, the justice system, the libraries, the firemen or the free-health-for-all (at least in Europe).

I don't see what's wrong with this "socialism" me neither!

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[wmac]

I always said that, I do not understand US citizens complaining of microsoft and calling it names.

Microsoft is like Coca-Cola for US (or even better. Coca Cola does not cover 90% of drink market). Microsft brings hundreds of billion dollars to US and generates jobs for tens of thousands people in US.

Now, as a non-US user I like to see Microsoft loses all its market in my country to Linux, solaris etc but why the hell an American might want that ?!!!

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Cymurgh]

The point here is not really about socialism or communism, but about countries that are neither free nor open embracing software that is.

(Imagine explaining 'Free as in speech, not free as in beer' in Cuba or China. Or Russia, for that matter, with its open season on investigative journalists.)

People strongly committed to the idea that there is some kind of intrinsic link between FOSS and political freedom might want to chew this over.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Hurricane78]

(Imagine explaining 'Free as in speech, not free as in beer' in Cuba or China. Or Russia, for that matter, with its open season on investigative journalists.)

Or in the USA for that matter... where you can put away without any trial, any right to contact anyone or even ask them why you were put away... just because someone did not like your name or something. You/We're not that much better. They can only hide it better here. No need for censorship, if you have FOX news.
I just hope they don't close that gap in difference soon. Because they work very hard on it.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Squeeonline]

/facepalm

There have been atleast 2 car companies who've called their cars "Nova", 'cos it sounds new and hip. But it means "doesnt go" in Spanish. (technically "no va" is "doesnt go") see Chevrolet Nova for more details.

Raul, obviously, didnt think this one through properly.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[boredhacker]

I am a fervent capitalist

Sorry, I just have to contribute my 2 cents regarding this statement.

In the old days, capitalists were the people who owned the means of production and simply profited from this ownership. The Forbes richest people in the world are the people we're talking about. In fact, these capitalists don't even need to actually support capitalism as a great ideal.

Now-a-days every layman who supports capitalism calls himself a capitalist. We lose an important distinction here, and I really think you might be better off by understanding this. Perhaps it will give you some more insight into each system and help you further refine your values.

In a very real sense, you are probably a socialist who happens to support capitalism. For example, do you pay Geico for car insurance (socialist) or do you own Berkshire-Hathaway (capitalist)? Do you invest in a 401k (socialist) or do you own your own investment firm (capitalist)? Do you fly commercial or in a private Lear jet? Do you go to work in the morning or do workers come to your building? I think you see where I'm going.

Anyway, I think it's an important distinction... more details here:

Capital

and here:

Capitalist

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[dmlr3d]

Thank you. This is one of the more insightful posts I've read lately. Unfortunately if you try to defend anything remotely socialistic in this country, you will probably just be labeled a socialist and promptly ignored.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[jabithew]

But not owning capital doesn't ipso facto make you a socialist. Buying car insurance is a capitalist, free-market transaction.

Besides, most people in the West are capitalists, as they own part of all of either a house or a car. A 'socialist' investing in a 401K with a stock aspect may become a part owner of Berkshire-Hathaway, which is a publicly listed firm.

By your definition, almost nobody is a capitalist as most firms are publicly listed and hence socially owned.

In short, I think the reason the distinction has blurred in usage is because it has genuinely blurred in reality. And a socialist is certainly not the same thing as someone with no money. Just see Polly Toynbee.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Tellarin]

If a Galapagos Penguin ever reaches Cuba by itself that would be major news as Galapagos is in the Pacific and Cuba in the Atlantic.

And if you mean they would travel through the Panama Canal... man, I really wish I could see that migration live. :-)

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. We're not immune in Europe, though. Here it's "racism". The next Hitler will not be caused by neonazis. He will be caused by the rabid bleeding hearts who stifle all conversation about trying to solve refugee problems. Anyone who doesn't agree that it's 100% the white man's fault and that the only solution is even more taxpayer money is mercilessly labeled a racist.

At some point, people are going to wake up and vote for the worst racist they can find in retaliation. I really hope rational debate makes a comeback before then.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[dotancohen]

Somehow I have a hard time picturing penguins in Cuba.

I don't.

Those penguins depend upon the unusual cool currents welling up from under the ocean. Cuba does not have such currents.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[dotancohen]

Since when is russia a communist or socialist country?

1917. Just wait a few weeks, I'm sure that kdawson will post it.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[hcpxvi]

"no va" is "doesnt go") see Chevrolet Nova for more details.

You could for example look here
http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp
and discover that the whole "Nova == doesn't go" thing is an urban legend.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[zwei2stein]

Likely, decision to use open systems is security one rather that any other.

Government computers running on closed source OS that is basically made by enemies is huge security risk. It is nothing you just ignore. Your own OS on the other hand ...

USA has no reason to pursue "usaOS" - MS must play nice with them, so they have usaOS by default (It is Windows.)

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you explain it to me why building public roads is socialist?

Then the Roman empire should be considered socialist for building public aqueducts and theatres and fixing upper limits in essential goods.

This is not socialist, it's common sense, created long long ago, before Marx and company ever were born.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Eternauta3k]

Raul, obviously, didnt think this one through properly

Or... the whole nova thing is a myth and this just proves it.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

That is called Godwin's law, you know? It specifically mentions Nazis but refers to the specific type of Ad Hominem: Bringing up "You are like [group we all hate] when you suggest that!".

But well, I am quite far left politically. Imagine what I face if I participate in any political discussion.

Have you seen the Southpark episode with KKK and changing the flag? They decide to officially support the idea they disagree with because everyone will try to choose the side they don't support. It's like that.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[pmarini]

the countires adopting Linux in the first place are rthose where people cannot afford the price of retail Microsoft software - due to much lower wages in terms of PPP - and find a good opportunity in other software that is (mostly) free-to-download and incidentally, open to have a look at...
Microsoft is "fighting" this back with giveaway deals with these countries (the list is too long to be included here, and the ones that you mention are simply those which didn't come to an agreement (yet?)
whether you want to label anything non-american as anti-capitalistic, it's your freedom, and let me remind you how corporations deal with (unimportant) customers: "please hold, your call is important to us"
having a community out there ready to help (I agree that "you must ask the right question" to it) is nothing less than helping the old lady with her VCR (ehm, DVR these days...) so surely Open Source mustn't be compared to a dangerous gang of mutants (TECH: unless you think that "forking" a project is a mutation...)

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[boredhacker]

Let me address some of your points...

But not owning capital doesn't ipso facto make you a socialist. Buying car insurance is a capitalist, free-market transaction.

True, being broke does not (in and of itself) make you a socialist. I don't think I said it does, my apologies if I did. However, you could be considered a socialist (albeit an unknowing or reluctant one) if you need to participate in these co-operative organizations (like an insurance policy holder or 401k investor or job holder) because you don't profit enough from your capital to cover your costs.

Besides, most people in the West are capitalists, as they own part of all of either a house or a car. A 'socialist' investing in a 401K with a stock aspect may become a part owner of Berkshire-Hathaway, which is a publicly listed firm.

This is where the distinction is important IMHO. Simply owning some small part of a company or a house or a car doesn't make you a capitalist (given the distinction). You must own enough capital where you can profit without exchanging your time and labor for money. So, I may own my house and my car and even have some money in the bank... but if I need to go to work in the morning in order to pay for my mortgage, the car loan and my meals... then I'm not a capitalist (even if I subscribe to the ideal).

By your definition, almost nobody is a capitalist as most firms are publicly listed and hence socially owned.

Correct. By the definition I've chosen to adopt, very few people are truly capitalists. I would say you need at a bare minimum of 1/2 million dollars without having any debt in order to remotely qualify as a capitalist in my world. Relatively speaking, not many people have this kind of money. Most people need to trade their time and labor in order to pay for the things that they require to live. I.E. the interest from their investments alone is not enough to survive. Naturally, I'm not a final authority by any means so feel free to disagree.

In short, I think the reason the distinction has blurred in usage is because it has genuinely blurred in reality.

The above is a good point, and I won't argue either way. I think it may just be a matter of how deep we want the analysis to be. My point was simply that if we choose to re-focus the blurred image we may become more enlightened.

And a socialist is certainly not the same thing as someone with no money.

Again, I don't remember making this claim. If anything, I wanted some people to consider the possibility that (after some critical thought) what works best for them may actually be socialism, not capitalism. By no means do I think it should become a holy war. After all, we are each entitled to our own beliefs. Invoking the critical thought process is what I believe to be truly important.

Just see Polly Toynbee

I'll check it out, thanks for the recommendation ;-)

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[jlar]

"While I support adoption of open source, I am starting to get worries that it will get strongly labeled as Communist/Socialist.. now that China,Russia,and Cuba have all officially adopted it. Do you actually think that America would join them, even if it is in America's best interest?"

Why not just a commercial or volunteer Linux distribution? I don't see more need for a state run Linux distribution than for state run car factories.

Btw. the Chinese Red Flag distribution is AFAIK now a commercial distribution focusing on the Chinese market (and maybe getting some preferential treatment by the government). The Russian national OS is still vapourware and so is the Cuban.

So the bottom line is: There are no successful government developed operating systems. And there are perfectly good reasons for that. No reason to walk that path for America. Regarding use of Linux in public institutions I am all for it (although I think the decision is best taken at a local level).

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[es0vyr4fVY9LD8ub]

That's is because you perceive 'Communist/Socialist' as an insult.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or the US or UK, which has just ploughed billions into the private sector, essentially making it into the public sector!

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[kayditty]

I think he meant that he doesn't have a hard time IMAGINING the possibility of penguins existing at such a latitude.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[jandersen]

... strongly labeled as Communist/Socialist...

First the lecture: Communism and Socialism are ideologies - that is, ideas about how society should be run. The may or may not be good ideas, but that is all they are, and as such neither good nor bad. There are two groups of people in particular that insist that those ideologies can never, ever change: one is the wild-eyed reactionaries who use "communism" as another word for "evil", to whom any for of dissent is simply "communism". The other group consists of those that believe, or rather Believe, in One True Communist Ideology as written in the Holy Scriptures of Marx, Engels and Lenin, to whom "capitalism is another word for "evil"; they view any form of dissent as "capitalism". Both of those groups are enemies of common people.

And then of course there is everybody else, who realises that the world changes as time passes, and that our world view has to change with it. Some of them are Communists, some think Capitalism is best, but they all know that something in the middle, with elements from both is what makes real society work; we have to take care of the weak and protect them from harm to some extent, and we have to allow some degree of free trade and what have you. Politics in the real world is simply about figuring out what the balance should be.

So much for the lecture - so why would it be of any significance whether communists of one sort or the other use Linux? Are we suddenly going to see the Red Screen Of Death a lot? I think we should be generous enough to be glad that our favourite OS is a success everywhere.

Do you actually think that America would join them, even if it is in America's best interest?

I certainly expect so - Americans are no dumber than the rest of us, and I doubt Americans in general are going to let their misgivings about other world-views keep them from doing the right thing. I mean, would you stop eating beef if you found out that people in Cuba just love a good steak?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[scjohnno]

The Romans implemented some socialist policies. I don't think that's an entirely controversial statement. Rome was also an oligarchy. Not everything fits into neat little boxes.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[silanea]

the countires adopting Linux in the first place are rthose where people cannot afford the price of retail Microsoft software [...]

You don't read much news, do you?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Jurily]

I am starting to get worries that it will get strongly labeled as Communist/Socialist.. now that China,Russia,and Cuba have all officially adopted it.

Since when do americans care what the rest of the world does?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[silanea]

[...] I don't see more need for a state run Linux distribution than for state run car factories. [...]

A state-run distro does make sense for certain types of users, namely those within the state's institutions. In many countries software that is, for example, used to access personal data on citizens (tax records, registration offices' data...) has to be certified for compliance with regulations and legal requirements. Here it is perfectly sensible to put together a well-defined distro under supervision of an official state body. Though that distro may of course be based on something like Debian.

But a general-purpose state distro for businesses and individuals is not really sensible, that's right.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[irae]

No need for censorship, if you have FOX news.
</p></quote>

But in US you have also other news to choose from, that's the difference.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well also other evil countries like France, Germany, Austria, and South Africa are adopting open standards and open source. But, you shouldn't forget the idea OS was developed in the US now other countries are using this to get their independence from a monopoly. However, it might need some time until the prophet is heard in his own country ;-)

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well OS is a social thing and is therefore very close to Socialism or socialistic ideas. However, most people think Socialism includes a dictatorship as government and no freedom. This is real problem in here. To correct this you have to advocate social ideas. A good point to start this advocating is Europe. Especially Scandinavia. These countries have many socialistic ideas incorporated without loosing freedom (And remember freedom and an empty stomach is worth the empty stomach).

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Curtman]

and really, the only place where being "socialist" is something you have to worry about really would be the US

And being "a liberal". Apparently in the U.S. it's best to be a selfish extremist. No room for moderation, tolerance or love for your community.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[PinkyDead]

That says more about those doing the labelling than it does about the labels themselves.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Hurricane78]

Yes. thatâs the gap I talked about.

Censorship might close them. And I do not trust CNN or MicrosoftNBC much more than FOX already.
The only alternative is the NET. And even in China, you can get full access to the net if you find the right proxy (not that hard)
But where do I find a complete âoedrop-in replacementâ news source that is investigating all by itself (and not using the press releases of big press companies)?

P.S.: Thereâ(TM)s a bug in the comment system. When you select HTML you get plain text, and when you select plain text, you get HTML. Thatâ(TM)s why the tags are visible in your comment.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[CarpetShark]

Somehow I have a hard time picturing penguins in Cuba.

I don't.

And what do galapagos penguins have to to with Cuba?

Or, indeed, picturing things in Cuba? Sounds like some sort of vitamin/imagination deficiency to me.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

The old labels of communism and capitalism are getting dated and we need to redefine the way we apply political judgment to everyday things. Linux and open source software are not either communist nor an attach to capitalism, but simply the living prove of the sift we are living in our paradigm about what is good and useful for society and the way for the world for tools people can use and enjoy.
The way Steve Ballmer talked about linux is a living prove of how detached of reality they are on what soceity demand. If they made good profit on shaping the Information society as we know it up to now, good for them, but their time is gone, and they better get used to it.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[rastos1]

Somehow I have a hard time picturing penguins in Cuba.

I don't.

From your link:
"It is the only penguin to live on the equator and can survive due to the cool temperatures resulting from the Humboldt Current and cool waters from great depths brought up by the Cromwell Current."

I don't think that Humboldt Current brings cold water to Cuba.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

As someone who hates all human kind I like your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

-Megatron

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[iNaya]

I trust anything more than FOX. I would trust a bible bashing, gun toting, right wing, 5000 year old Earth creationist's views on evolution more than I would ever trust FOX.

I switched to FOX by accident the other day, and there was this guy interviewing someone by phone. The interviewer looked like a weasel, the way he grinned and shook his head disbelievingly as the person being interviewed answered really intelligently and politely. I thought, what a bloody twerp! The daily show treats George Bush better than that!

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Garabito]

This is particularly funny because Putin just warned the U.S. against socialism..

I don't think many people ever thought that could happen one day....

(Disclaimer: I don't think that the current U.S. administration is socialist/communist.)

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Elektroschock]

I don't know if you read what Putin told Michael Dell in Davos?

You are probably also aware of the plans in Russia and Uzbekistan for a National Operating System. Cuba now joins the club.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Elektroschock]

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/01/29/michael_dell_0_vladimir_putin_1/

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

(Imagine explaining 'Free as in speech, not free as in beer' in Cuba or China. Or Russia, for that matter, with its open season on investigative journalists.)

I imagine you would just use Gratis and Libre, or whatever the Cubish versions are. It's a problem pretty unique to English.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[MrRobahtsu]

Do you invest in a 401k (socialist) or do you own your own investment firm (capitalist)?

So you're saying investing in the stock market is socialist? And you're claiming the previous poster has his definition wrong?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[cHALiTO]

That is probably a myth, but this one is real:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Montero

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[hengdi]

I live in China - this place is more capitalist than the U.S.A!

I've only ever met one communist here, and he was a teacher from Canada

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[cynical kane]

How many people who would be called capitalists profit without exchanging time and labor for money? Does John Stumpf kick back and smoke pot all day? Does John Thain spend his time playing volleyball at the beach? He may have gotten (stolen) more money than he deserves, but let's not pretend that he does no "work". Those capitalists got where they are by exchanging their time and labor for money, just like the rest of us.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[diegocgteleline.es]

"Socialism" is an european thing. Americans have been living in democracy more than 230 years (in all that time Europe has had to live with kings, coups d'etat, endless local wars, communism, nazism...)

America have been using their taxes to provide public services even before Marx and "socialism" were born, and it always was completely different of what we the europeans understand by "socialism".

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[BitZtream]

agree that the connection of open source with Socialism in peoples minds and the negative effect this could have on its adoption worries me.

Then stop supporting GPL. OSS in and of itself doesn't do it. GPL on the other hand is obviously a work of socialism by the definitions that seem to be going around on here.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[BitZtream]

For example, do you pay Geico for car insurance (socialist) or do you own Berkshire-Hathaway (capitalist)? Do you invest in a 401k (socialist) or do you own your own investment firm (capitalist)? Do you fly commercial or in a private Lear jet? Do you go to work in the morning or do workers come to your building? I think you see where I'm going.

I see where you're going. Drawing conclusions from comparisons that have absolutely nothing to do with socialism by trying to make it seem like they do based on some minor detail thats more related to the way it has to work. Your calling Geico socialist, but one of the companies with a large interest in Geico (Berkshire) is capatilist? Reallly? Do you think before you write?

A 401k is socialist? Why because there is a group involved? Theses slightly more to socialism than doing a few things in a group, and its retarded to try and pretend that we're all a bunch of socialists because you can use fouled logic to make bad comparisons between a couple of things.

Just because you don't own everything doesn't make you a socialist, nor does it make you not a capitalist. Get in touch with reality there partner.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Democratic or Republic or Communist or Socialist or Lord Dumpling or whatever ... All these forms of government have good points to them, otherwise they wouldn't have been dreamed up to begin with. The problem is not government but greed and temptation in the hands of someone who finds themselves in a tempting situation and also a government official. As soon as the first lie is cast, the remaining truth has to be colluded to work with the lie, thus starting the chain that ends in governmental collapse.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[trewornan]

The romans had one of the first social security systems ever and handed out bread and olive oil to roman citizens (as well as providing free entertainments).

As Juvenal lamented:

Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions -- everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses

Some things never change.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[trewornan]

Oh yes, all us Europeans would very much like to thank you Americans for inventing democracy for us.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Koreantoast]

I think the issue isn't a label of Communist or Socialist but association with authoritarianism and anti-Western alignment. Then again, while it may be offensive to Americans and perhaps some members of the Western-bloc, on the flip side, it may become the label of choice for those who seek an alternative to the West.

My concern isn't that these governments are using this software but what they'll require packaged with the distribution.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cuba invaded the Galapagos Islands? Or did you spot the word incubation in that article?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[swordfishtrombones]

If open source software is socialist, that means the UK Conservative Party has taken a very sharp turn to the left. Or maybe they've just realised it makes good sense?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[ttigue]

Maybe you are right - http://www.conservativenannystate.org/cns.html#5 I suppose only proper western states would understand that speech.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[russotto]

From the same article:

Putin also cautioned the US against using military Keynesianism to lift its economy out of recession, saying, "in the longer run, militarization won't solve the problem but will rather quell it temporarily.

He's either a complete hypocrite or has a finely honed sense of irony.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[gnud]

It's also not funny to be a socialist in some US-backed regimes like for example Colombia [1]

[1] http://www.nupge.ca/news_2006/n27jn06b.htm

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[JesseMcDonald]

You really should learn to separate what should be imposed on others (legality) from how should I live my own life (morality). The opposite of the political liberal is not the "selfish extremist", but rather the person who seeks to apply these principles in their own life without employing force (via legislation) to make everyone else do the same. Liberals are not despised for their "moderation, tolerance or love for [their] community", but rather for their attempts to codify these principles as legal obligations.

Casting your opponent as some ridiculously amoral caricature is an example of the strawman fallacy, and undermines your own side of the debate. Conservatives are not "selfish extremists" -- and liberals at least have good intentions, for the most part, however much I may disagree with their methods.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[buswolley]

Europe has been a smelly pile of shit for the last 2000 years.

Perhaps you have worked things out well since WWII, but remember..That continent has caused more pain and suffering than any other... And American's saved your asses twice, and kicked your asses more.

Yes I like some of the ideals that Europe has implemented in the last 50 years, but seriously, you forget your history.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[buswolley]

Nice lecture, and I agree with you. My point was simple though. It is one of perception. What will the perception be. This point has a certain weight regardless of the truth value of that perception.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[lag00natic]

I believe most Americans don't fear Socialism. Obama getting elected proves this point.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Pictish Prince]

Still "Cubix" is so much cooler.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[fudoniten]

Well, first, "conservative" in the US doesn't seem to mean what it did before. It's not about taxation and political freedoms, it's about religion, moral righteousness, 'security', etc. I think the GP likely just meant that no position that is not extreme is allowed. I think you're being a little touchy. It's hard to object you you libertarians (or old-school liberals) these days; you're such a minority.

Second, the USA wasn't founded on avoiding taxes, it was founded on avoiding unfair taxes without representation. There's a big difference. "No citizen will be required to pay tax" appears nowhere in the declaration.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Pictish Prince]

Toi thic Tux!

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Lumpy]

HUH???

Nobody in the United states owns a house or a car.

The State owns your home, you are a name on the title, but they can take it from you at any time if you dont meet their demands. They can control fully how you use your home and land.

the State can also take your car from you at ANY TIME if you dont meet their demands. They control FULLY how and WHEN you can use your car.

Where did you get this disillusionment that you actually own your car and home in the United states?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Descalzo]

I would trust a bible bashing, gun toting, right wing, 5000 year old Earth creationist's views on evolution more than I would ever trust FOX.

If the creationist is 5000 years old, I'd probably value his opinion, too. He'd have lots of good wisdom.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[bzipitidoo]

I hope you are not implying conservatives don't do it too. The conservatives are worse than the liberals about imposing their views by force of legislation, or more like, force of deregulation. And worse also in not seeing that about themselves-- they think removing legislation is an unalloyed benefit to all. Everyone is freer? No. The "freedom" to be irresponsible just burdens everyone else. Such "freed" entities make messes and stick the public with the costs, deny that there are problems, and when that won't fly, shift to denying that they contributed. They scramble to strip resources as fast as possible before competitors can, leading to the famous "Tragedy of the Commons". They even go so far as to waste resources on abuses of science to make blatantly biased and unsound favorable cases. "Doubt is our product." And the costs would have been far lower if addressed earlier, as soon as it was known there was a problem worth addressing. Those are huge impositions.

Certainly, the government should stay out of as much as possible, and there are plenty of petty useless rules that should be repealed. The trouble is, if the government is too starved to guide or police, other things will. The government is at least answerable to the voters and generally more impartial.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[r1_97]

If you want a rational debate, don't use broad labels like socialism. Look at specific issues of what government should do - public education, consumer protection, bank regulation, health care, social security etc.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

No they didn't. That is the big fallacy of "the american dream" that somehow you can be one of "them." By them I mean the capitalists.

Those capitalists got where they are by robbing, stealing and exploiting society. They didn't start in the mail room and through hard work and labor rise to CEO. They come from rich families, whose connections put them in places of power, from elite schools to their golfing pals who broker deals that affect millions of lives.

You have more of a chance of winning the lottery then you ever have to rising to a position of power in a capitalist society, as an owner of production for that society. John Thain, John Stumpf, etc. are not from the same society the rest of us are from. There is a sharp and hard delimiter between us and them, institutionalized wealth.

If you are "working" then then you are a worker. I don't care if you make a million dollars a year, you are still a worker. Do you consider sitting around catered conference rooms "working"? Some people would call beach volleyball "working" BTW. Just because you show up to "work" does not make you a worker. You have a lot to learn about the many-layered obfuscation that is capitalist society.

Those capitalists got where they are by being born, and having decades upon decades of others exchanged labor handed to them, either via the market or simply from powerful families. They exist due to vast military complexes, and faulty educational systems.

You are a cog in the machine, as much so as any worker in the soviet union or owner of any small business. The USA is full of these petit-bourgeois who think they are capitalists. BTW, that is the definition of petit-bourgeois, is someone who profits from others labor yet still labors themselves (well part of the definition.)

It amazes me when americans try to talk socio-economics, you simply have idea what you are talking about. It sounds rational, it sounds nice and clean because you have been told time and again what "socialism", "communism" and "capitalism" are, yet you know nothing about them because you have been told bullshit. Then mix in a bunch of hogwash about "democracy" and what not, and you have total ignorance being portrayed as truth, because we "beat" communism.

BTW, I think most americans would be quite shocked to read the constitution of the USSR. Since they were communist and all, you know, and we are a democracy. Hint: capitalist is capitalist, no matter what you call it. And voting for leadership is democracy, no matter what you call it.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, the TV says so. So it must be true.

American's love the idea of "ownership" so much so, that it is the greatest fear of "communism" because of the concept of no private property. Forget that "property" in this sense means the devices of production necessary for a society to exist. They just want to "own" their car and "own" their house.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Curtman]

The opposite of the political liberal is not the "selfish extremist"

No, I was thinking more along the lines of the opposite of "socialist liberal".

but rather the person who seeks to apply these principles in their own life without employing force (via legislation) to make everyone else do the same.

You mean like how the selfish extremists advocate capitol punishment? They would never think of employing force (via legislation)?

Liberals are not despised for their "moderation, tolerance or love for [their] community", but rather for their attempts to codify these principles as legal obligations.

Liberals are not despised anywhere except in your country.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Tetsujin]

I would trust a bible bashing, gun toting, right wing, 5000 year old Earth creationist's views on evolution more than I would ever trust FOX.

If the creationist is 5000 years old, I'd probably value his opinion, too. He'd have lots of good wisdom.

Nah, nah, I talked to one of these guys once, it didn't go real well.

Me: So I hear you were one of the first generations descended from the children of Adam. Were you around before they were cast out?
5000 year old creationist: Uh-huh
Me: Really? What was that like?
5000 year old creationist: Nope
Me: ...Huh... I don't really understand what you're saying here... could you elaborate?
5000 year old creationist: ...

Wisdom doesn't always last, I guess.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Tetsujin]

Shit, you're worried? A friend of mine has been saying Linux is Communist for aeons.

Yeah, probably one of your Monican friends gadding about in skimpy leather outfits...

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Ian Alexander]

Doing something socialist-ish (Developing an OS with government resources I would hesitate to call socialist: if they nationalized the Russian OS industry, that'd look more socialist to me) doesn't make you a socialist in my book. Russia is still a market economy.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[pushing-robot]

No, but Cuba doesn't get significantly warmer than the Galapagos islands. Cuba is 20 degrees farther north.

And coastal regions never get as hot (or as cold) as more land-locked areas; Cuban summers are mild compared to inland parts of the southwestern US, Africa, Australia, etc.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Zencyde]

I had to look up the reference. I guess I have to turn my geek card in, eh? Never seen anything regarding that series; save the movie. I just think "aeon" looks nicer than "eon".

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[jo42]

"Soviet Russia" ceased to exist last century. The meme also died back then.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

"A figurative Big Brother fondly on you look, and a real Big Brother ally with you do,, so filled with hatred you are. Fear leads to hatred. Hatred leads to anger. Anger leads to violence."

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Elektroschock]

No, you have actually no clue about the dividing line between socialism and other systems.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[extrasolar]

Are we suddenly going to see the Red Screen Of Death a lot?

Indeed we will. The only difference is that, in Soviet Russia, the Red Screen of Death crashes into you!

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Eternauta3k]

Or Arubix, if we were talking about another tropical island...

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

About 40% of the US population are socialist. Anyone who is a member of a credit union or co-op (eg. REI) is technically a socialist.

Unfortunately most Americans equate "socialism" with central planning or authoritarian governments. The actual definition of socialism refers to economic ownership and does not have to involve the government at all.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Pictish Prince]

Or Arubix, if we were talking about another tropical island...

Then later they could merge the distros into Arubix Cubix.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Ian Alexander]

So where is it?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[SergioB]

So how you'll explain Serge Grin, whos parents migrated from Soviet Union and had not generation after generation of wealth?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, but that's because the US is becoming a fascist country.

Read the wikipedia article and replace the word "fascism" with "patrotism"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even the term `Soviet Union' is ridiculous. The soviets, as envisioned by Lenin (as the representatives of the _will_ of the workers), didn't have any say in the `Union' just right from the start of the civil war after the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. And let's not even get started on Stalin.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[BoothbyTCD]

They even have a name for it: 'Libertarian'

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Curtman]

Which is one of those oxy-moron names, like the "war on terror" which only increases the sum total of terror.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Elektroschock]

Our economies are all mixed economies, some goods are provided by the government, some goods by diverse private players. US military spending is a perfect example where the public takes a strong role.

Socialism relates to control/ownership of production facility, so in a radical socialist nation all production is a public monopoly.

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[giantweevil]

>all production is a public monopoly

Wouldn't that be, say... communism?

Re:Tux cant handle the Cuban heat.

[Elektroschock]

You mean the US moon landing was communism? ;-)

Communism is an utopian state to which Communists believe our societies converge, this is a final state as a determinist transition. Maybe that is a true positive analysis but what makes communists annoying is the normative party idea: To totally break free you need to believe in X and do like the Y and combat Z.

Strong Governmental planning is just one parameter that characterises state socialism but you also find it in the visions of the classic industrialists and mostly put into pratice into the military etc. It is strongly influenced by the military moder of operations.

The reason why the libertarian vision became popular was the cold war.

I share the position that modern production should not be controlled by technocratic monsters, whether governments or large corporations. The open source model shows what efficiency gains you get when you let the professionals do what should be done. The role of a government is to support this infrastructure, in particular to help to overcome monolithic structures.

Countries and open source

[Anonymous Coward]

Countries developing their own open source software? How about open source software developing its own countries?

Re:Countries and open source

[buswolley]

Let's fly to Mars where we will make sweet revolutionary love baby! C'mon fly with me!!!

Re:Countries and open source

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the scariest thing I've seen all morning.

Their website even *looks* like Stalin-pedia.

Brown-cloaked apparachik-puppetmasters are already gathering in dark street corners, dreaming up positions of unaccountable behind-the-scenes power such as "moderator", "administrator" and "chief architect's fiencee's best friend".

Re:Countries and open source

[shutdown -p now]

How about open source software developing its own countries?

I'm afraid, so far this has less chance of anything practical ever coming out of it than GNU/Hurd.

Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[Jane Q. Public]

That is to say, that's one of the smarter things I have heard about a government lately.

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[jc42]

That is to say, that's one of the smarter things I have heard about a government lately.

But it doesn't really require any special smarts to understand that if you buy a "black box" computer whose innards are all binary blobs that your people can't take apart and study, the computer can do anything at all with your data, and you have no defense. In particular, if you plug it into a network, it can be sending all your data off to anywhere in the world.

If someone doesn't understand this, the reason isn't usually stupidity. It's because they have some ulterior motive to not understand it. In the case of politicians, the reason is generally because they're "on the take", known in the US as "campaign contributions". This is likely to be the case with non-governmental organizations, too. After all, it has become common for organizations to let vendors know that they're looking at linux and other "free" software. The response from Microsoft and other vendors is to (publicly) offer their software at a much lower price, and (privately) offer kickback to the administrators.

You don't need to attribute great intelligence to someone who understands this. It's the way that much of the world has always worked. We can expect to read of some vaguely-specified special agreements between Microsoft and the Cuban government, and we'll know what has gone on behind the scenes.

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[Anonymous Coward]

Viva La Cubuntu!

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[Jane Q. Public]

Yes, but my point is: if it doesn't take special smarts, then why does OUR government use Windows in so many applications, including (in some cases) military and security?

Stupidity is a relative thing.

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[BuisyBizz]

I don't comment too much on ./, but I keep hearing this and it makes me wonder...If you see large amounts of data being sent out from your network, and you're a gov't official (smart enough to consider switching to linux), would that not throw up some red flags? I'm not commenting about the switch itself, just wondering.

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[jc42]

If you see large amounts of data being sent out from your network, and you're a gov't official (smart enough to consider switching to linux), would that not throw up some red flags?

Indeed. And that's not a hypothetical scenario. Back in the early 1990s, soon after Microsoft first started supplying Internet connectivity, there were numerous reports of people noticing that the modem lights were flickering when the system was supposedly idle. Some people who noticed this had line monitors, which they plugged in between the computer and the modem. They reported that the traffic consisted of lists of the contents of the disk, and the destination address was owned by Microsoft. The reason for this was left to the reader's imagination.

Nowadays this isn't reported as much, but it's mostly because people have gotten accustomed to the idea that the modem's lights flicker at random times, even when "nothing should be happening". Also, investigating such activity is a bit more difficult these days, because the packets' contents are often encoded or encrypted, and you don't see the plain text scrolling by on the monitor's screen.

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[jc42]

[I]f it doesn't take special smarts, then why does OUR government use Windows in so many applications, including (in some cases) military and security?

Good point. What would you think is the explanation? ;-)

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[MBGMorden]

I don't know. Why are all these countries investing so much in their own one-off distros? I can totally see the benefit to going open source, and certainly they'll need some custom applications for government use that they might develop in-house, but why not just use something like Ubuntu rather than placing yet another variant out there that the the community needs to take into account?

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[jonaskoelker]

But it doesn't really require any special smarts to understand that if you buy a "black box" computer [...]

Really? Does your mother know this? Do you think she would understand if you explained it to her?

I won't make any claims as to exactly what brings that understanding about, but I will say that having written code definitely makes it a lot easier to get, and I know (or at least am of the opinion) that it's really hard to get, on a gut level, that not everybody knows what you know.

Re:Well, I guess this means they aren't stupid.

[Jane Q. Public]

I did not want to "say it out loud", as it were. :o)

In Soviet Cuba..

[Anonymous Coward]

source opens YOU!

CigarOS

[russlar]

Gives new meaning to the term patch rollup.

Re:CigarOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Che-buntu is the name.

Re:CigarOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Viva Cuba LIbre!

Coño!!

Re:CigarOS

[uberjack]

I vote for 'CommUnix'

Re:CigarOS

[woof69]

cubix?

Re:CigarOS

[Anonymous Coward]

GitMoLinux?

Re:CigarOS

[Anonymous Coward]

GitMoLinux?

No, That's an American version discouraged for human use.

Re:CigarOS

[Tellarin]

I was going to vote for Castrix or Fidelix, but your suggestion is so much better! :)

Re:CigarOS

[nog_lorp]

I like that idea. Lightweight / fast booting versions can be called CigarillOS.

Re:CigarOS

[Anonymous Coward]

actually CigarrOS, with a double R

Re:CigarOS

[Kildjean]

yeah but che-buntu would be for the linux distro in argentina...

Re:CigarOS

[Culture20]

It uses Sugar for its GUI?

Re:CigarOS

[Hansgrin]

I vote for 'CommUnix'

You are made of win, sir.

Re:CigarOS

[daem0n1x]

That one already exists in my country, Portugal. It's distributed by our local Communist Party.

Re:CigarOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoaaaahaha, that's great :)

How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[TinBromide]

Seeing as you have to go through great hoops, (most of them not legal), to get anything Cuban around here, how is the Cuban government running american products? I suppose they purchased from south american, european or asian retailers, but one has to wonder, how many legit copies of windows are in Cuba? Can Microsoft go in to sue the Cuban government about illegal copies? What jurisdiction would Microsoft have to keep Cuba from enjoying their cracked copies until communism dies?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[zxjio]

It seems likely that their government would just buy from ISVs in another country. Microsoft can't see it, can't stop it, can't be held liable. Remember the recent case of HP selling a significant amount of printers to Iran in just such a way?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[b4upoo]

I'll bet money that our government has spying code built into official Windows copies as well as pirated versions. It was actually to our strategic benefit that Cuba continued to use proprietary software.
        Hiding spy like code within Linux distros will be far more difficult as the OS is transparent.
        We can only hope that people are running a lot of proprietary games or other software in which our codes can do their thing in Cuba. We do know that in the past some very good espionage materials have been hidden within printers.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[xPsi]

How did microsoft get around the embargo?

They aren't a company, man. They're their own frickn' weather system. They just need the coriolis force the tell them which way to spin.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am from Finland so I think I dont have your mindset. Could you explain to me, why exactly would we ever want to hope that. Cuba isnt any threat to the safety of the world or anything...

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would guess that Cuba A) pirate them all and/or B) buys them from an ISV in a country that doesn't care about the embargo.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[plasticsquirrel]

The embargo is only between the U.S. and Cuba. They no doubt buy from another country, and there's no real reason Microsoft would want to lose them as customers. Corporations aren't really moral entities with benevolent scruples about freedom of the press, good vs. evil, etc.

Looking at the record of foreign policy, privacy, and civil liberties in this country, we also have to ask ourselves if we really have the moral high ground to make judgments about other countries like this, as well. When was the last time Cuba started an international conflict? The expression "Physician, heal thyself" springs to mind.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Still the same AC here... I hope you arent referring to Cuba Missile Crisis, because that indeed was very long ago. Even if you arent and there has been something later than that, it is hardly a valid argument. Doesnt USA target numerous countries with nuclear missiles? And support more countries that have those?

I can tell that there are a lot of people who are more worried about Israel than Cuba, seeing Cuba isnt even very militaristic country. Why in hell would they fire a missile to a country they cant invade? Just because they are (nearly) communists and thus evil?

If you wish to not answer because of it would take this too far offtopic, I can understand that and not automatically assume that you somehow lost. Just felt the need to mention that at least over here, I have never heard that Cuba would have somehow threatening imago.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[jrumney]

The embargo stared in February 1962, 8 months before the Cuban missile crisis.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[QuantumRiff]

Why did this post get labeled troll? Honestly? The US has admitted to sneaking code into valve controllers made by a company that the US knew that the russians were discreetely and secretly buying, that would cause them to go wonky when certain circumstances happened, leading to a huge explosion on one of their main siberian gas pipelines. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1455559/CIA-plot-led-to-huge-blast-in-Siberian-gas-pipeline.html Why would it be different for cuba?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[DiegoBravo]

The CIA is a worldwide agency, and collects information from most (or all) the countries. Getting information from non too friendly countries is obviously more interesting (for example, emails sent from Venezuela, Russia, etc.) And locally, what about preventing another of nuke-crisis, or some action over Guantanamo?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most Americans don't have a very strong opinion about Cuba. However, the Cuban-American community has traditionally opposed Castro's regime, and has gained the political influence necessary to maintain pressure. After all, nobody else really cares.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[ElectricRook]

Cuba openly supports a violent over-throw of Capitalist economies, and vows to not rest until world wide communism has been achieved.
http://www.newworker.org/athens.htm

In the 1970's, the popular thing for upwardly mobile Communists was to hijack US airliners and divert them to Cuba.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cuba-US_aircraft_hijackings

In Cuba, attempting to flee to the US is a crime punishable by death.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=cuba+escape+execute&btnG=Search

Cuban refugees living in the US charter small air-craft to fly between Cuba and the US, for the purpose of finding/assisting refugees fleeing Cuba in small boats. These flights have been shot down in international airspace.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E03E5DF1139F936A15751C0A960958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

So ask your self where you stand... People should be allowed to leave at their own will, or held in the workers paradise for their own good.

Holding people in a country against their will, is that kind of like slavery?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[enrevanche]

The U.S. was the aggressor. If it hadn't tried to invade Cuba, this crisis would have never happened. Cuba's decision to allow the Soviets to put a missile base in Cuba was a result from the Kennedy administrations attempt to destabilize them. The Soviets were putting missiles in Cuba because we had them next door to them in Turkey.

The "grudge" the US right holds towards Cuba has to do with the fact that they hold the belief that because Cuba is next door the US has the right to determine the type of government in Cuba. This is the same "problem" they now have with Venezuela and Bolivia.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cuba openly supports a violent over-throw of Capitalist economies, and vows to not rest until world wide communism has been achieved.
http://www.newworker.org/athens.htm

USA openly or subtterly support a violent over-throw of democratic elected regimes. (Venezuela, Iran, Nicaragua, Chile, ...)

In the 1970's, the popular thing for upwardly mobile Communists was to hijack US airliners and divert them to Cuba.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cuba-US_aircraft_hijackings

In the 70's the CIA supported terrorists shot down an civil airplane flying from Caracas to Cuba. The prominent leader is in the USA free.

In Cuba, attempting to flee to the US is a crime punishable by death.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=cuba+escape+execute&btnG=Search

In USA, attempting to flee to Cuba without permision is a crime punishable with prison ( well at least USA don't kill them).

So ask your self where you stand... People should be allowed to leave at their own will, or held in the workers paradise for their own good.

So all the world should ask, why do we didn't make complete blockage of USA too.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[soundguy]

The "grudge" has a lot to do with the millions of dollars worth of private assets that were nationalized and confiscated when Castro's communist regime came to power. The Cuban exiles living in Florida who USED to be successful businessmen and landowners in Cuba are especially pissy about it.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[mikael_j]

Cuba openly supports a violent over-throw of Capitalist economies, and vows to not rest until world wide communism has been achieved.

Yeah, that kind of comes with revolutionary communism, kind of like how some people consider it perfectly justified to kill hundreds of thousands or even millions of people in order to "free" them from "communism", drugs or "terrorists".

In the 1970's, the popular thing for upwardly mobile Communists was to hijack US airliners and divert them to Cuba.

Indeed, but note how most of these hijackings were quite non-violent, some guy pulls a gun, demands to be flown to Cuba and either gets arrested or makes it to Cuba. Also, note how there were more than a couple of hijackers who were in fact mentally ill, I don't think you can blame that on communism (although from the tone of your post I'm sure you'd love to).

Cuban refugees living in the US charter small air-craft to fly between Cuba and the US, for the purpose of finding/assisting refugees fleeing Cuba in small boats. These flights have been shot down in international airspace.

You're talking about the pro-Batista crackpots in Florida, right? The ones who constantly scream about the horrible horrible evils of the Cuban government since Batista and his cronies were thrown out. Yeah, no bias or wishes to make the Cuban government look evil (not saying the Cuban government is a bunch of pink fluffy kittens but if everything that these Cubans living in Florida are screaming about was true then Fidel Castro would be a 40ft cyborg with eyes that shoot lasers, gigantic chainsaws for fingers and he'd have a large amount of ICBMs mounted to his head).

/Mikael

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[ketilwaa]

I keep forgetting, what's the name of that country who has actually used nuclear weapons in an act of war? If I rememember correctly, it's the same country which is an aggressor in practically every corner of the world. If you say Cuba is a very serious threat, that country must be Cuba, or?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Tellarin]

Wrong, the USSR targeted the US with missiles in Cuba. As the US targeted USSR and other with missiles elsewhere.

And most importantly, this happened a long time ago.

If Cuba was regarded as any threat by the "status quo" the US would not be the only country applying an economic embargo on the country (and one which started because of sugar, not security or anything else).

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[dotancohen]

I can tell that there are a lot of people who are more worried about Israel than Cuba, seeing Cuba isnt even very militaristic country.

Maybe I missed something, but isn't it usually other countries, such as Iraq, Lebanon, or even Hamastan, that shoot missiles and rockets at Israel?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[dotancohen]

The "grudge" the US right holds towards Cuba has to do with the fact that they hold the belief that because Cuba is next door the US has the right to determine the type of government in Cuba. This is the same "problem" they now have with Venezuela and Bolivia.

The phenomenon is called "sphere of influence" and it actually helps stabilize areas of the world because it helps ensure that conflicting mindsets and governments do not border each other. Not that I think it's right, especially in this case where there are some good tens of kilometers of ocean between Cuba and the US. But think of Eastern Russia, circa 1950-1970.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Tellarin]

I'm in no way defending Cuba's government acts here, but I really don't get this "Cuba is evil" mindset that people in the US always state and that always only shows one side.

One need to remember that besides what Cuba did, the US supported a dictator in Cuba (Batista) before the was overthrown by the "revolution", supported a tentative to invade Cuba (Bay of Pigs), and supported terrorist and sabotage acts in Cuba.

The US (biggest economy and military in the world) also imposes an economic embargo in Cuba (very small country) for some 40 years. And at the same time the US has a law that allows any Cubans who reach the US to become a US citizen. Do you want any bigger incentive than these two for people to live a country with a struggling economy?

And then they claim that people just want to run away from the bad bad Castro because he is the devil or something. :-/

Let's at least present both sides.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft? Sue the Cuban government?

Being a sovereign nation, Cuba would essentially have to consent to it. I don't see that happening.

I mean, how would that conversation go? "Let us sue you!" "Or what, you'll get your government to embargo us?"

I really can't think of any sort of leverage the US government, let alone Microsoft, could bring to bear on Cuba in this context. Short of bribing them with an end to the embargo or a teturn of Gitmo, anyway.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to work with a Cuban comp sci graduate.

Lets just say he was surprised to discover that you needed things like install keys and licences for Windows...

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you serious???

I mean , what if all copies are pirated, it could still be legal in Cuba.

What are they gonna do about it, start an embargo on them??

Come on the Cuban Government could pirate everything and they still have nothing to lose.

Switching to Linux is not an economic decision but rather a matter of having actual control of the software they use. And if you look at cases like Extremadura it is a development strategy.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

The stationing of Soviet SRBMs, IRBMs, Lunas, and other nuclear weapons in Cuba actually had very little to do with the American Jupiters in Turkey.

The chief issue was actually that Cuba was the first successful Communist revolution in the Western Hemisphere accomplished without Soviet intervention.

It wasn't a tit-for-tat over Turkey, it was Khrushchev's sentimentality. He wanted to protect the first New World communist state, and put it in an unassailable position from which to export the revolution to the rest of Latin America.

The primary role of the Turkish missiles was to convince Khrushchev the Americans wouldn't put up too much of a fuss---both nations' nuclear policies were based to some degree on parity. Disparity was seen by both sides as giving the weaker side a compelling motive for a preemptive strike, which is precisely the reason behind the ban on ballistic missile defenses. Khrushchev assumed that logic would hold.

Kennedy tacitly admitted the hyprocrisy of the Turkish Jupiters by quietly, and without fanfare, agreeing to their removal in exchange for removal of the Cuban nukes.

So while the Turkish nukes were indeed important in both the origins of the Crisis and in its conclusion, it's not quite accurate to suggest that they were the reason for it.

I do, however, agree fully that the Americans were the aggressors. I'll even take it a step father and say it was Khrushchev, and not Kennedy, who was the hero of the crisis. I don't give Kennedy much credit for having won at a game of chicken he shouldn't have been playing in the first place.

When the guy who backed down announced his plans to put nukes in Cuba with the phrase, "Now we shall truly throw a hedgehog at Uncle Sam's trousers," the guy who didn't probably isn't the bigger man.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Cuba, attempting to flee to the US is a crime punishable by death.
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&q=cuba+escape+execute&btnG=Search

In USA, attempting to flee to Cuba without permision is a crime punishable with prison ( well at least USA don't kill them).

In 1972 a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit..

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[phosphorylate this]

Kennedy went through with the bay of pigs invasion but he didn't really orchestrate it did he? It had been planned for some time before he took office.

The fact it wasn't his idea or something he really agreed with was probably a major reason for its failure. If Eisenhower had the time to implement it agressively perhaps it would have worked, or if Kennedy had the guts to back out maybe the missile crisis could have been prevented by other means. Instead...

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Those people worried about Israel should be really worried about Iran.

Iran is sponsoring terror and Islamic Jihad extreamests and will soon have atomic war heads. I hope Obama will make them turn away from terror and if that doesn't work he'll kick them in the ... and I hope we don't need another 9-11 to understand who these people are.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[gRa]

If Cuba were neutral as Finland was during the cold war, it would not pose any threat to the world peace or safety. As a Soviet base it was threatening USA and so it was a threat. Finland would be a similar threat to Russia, if your government invited the USA to have its bases in your country.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Asic Eng]

Doesn't happen in a vaccum, does it? I suspect children killed by Israeli cluster bombs are just as dead as those killed by Palestinian suicide attacks or Palestinian rockets. Sure one site starts, then the other side "responds", the there is retaliation to the responsce and so on. After a while it's just a continuous stream of mutual violence.

Israel will not get peace unless it's stops it's policy of stealing Palestinian land. Steadily expanding settlements, "security areas" and the like is just stealing by another name.

On the other hand Palestinians will not get peace unless they stop being the world's biggest morons. Shooting rockets at someone a thousand times more powerful gets you invaded and your infrastructure destroyed? Huh, imagine that.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[houghi]

Yeah, but you forget that Cuba hosts a camp where people are tortured called "Guantanamo Bay". UH, oh, never mind.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[stimpleton]

Its an ego thing. Kennedy was absolutley embarrased by the bay of pigs invasion. That cuba repulsed it so easily. "Cuba is evil" was just a massive example of the US throwing its toys.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[InsurrctionConsltant]

Not very long ago, Cuba targeted the United States with armed nuclear missiles.

Erm, yeaaaaahhhh....

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[infinitelink]

Back in the Cold war Cuba was directed troops in communist insurrections around the world: everything from Asian countries to former British colonies had U.S. troops inside trying to halt the advance of that ideology, and Castro often directed the troops personally that were trying to overthrow these governments.

He also helped set-up the elements in South American that are, today, destabilizing it: in the U.S. we're getting immigrants from South America who are WALKING through Mexico (entering Mexico illegally is an automatic felony, and police and populace alike there are known to commonly just beat, rob, and rape anyone who does so, and leave them for dead) if they have to, and these aren't poor people down on their luck, they're lower to upper middle class affluents escaping places like Venezuela, which have put a lot of propaganda about how all is great, but which have made anyone who isn't dirt-poor into their national scapegoats to legislate tyranny in the name of "the people". (And note, this is the great thing about the U.S., I was privelaged to get great learning about Mexico because my instructor in Spanish was Mexican: and I'm around Mexicans all the time!!)

Castro is just nuts in the eyes of the U.S.: the Russia has declassified that they removed the nukes because Fidel is such an extremist that he actually wanted to use them!

At any rate, the U.S. gets all those fleeing Cuba because of how horrid it is for the good dirty internal information that Castro & Co. don't want to get out: so it has its reasons for fully disliking that horrible government. Unfortunately there are elements here who think it's great, and actually believe that the staged-for-propaganda high-end hospitals that only rich Americans, Europeans, and favored Cubans get to use are actually the norm of their supposedly wonderful and enlightened universal system of healthcare (yeah right), among other propaganda.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[GreatBunzinni]

The phenomenon is called "sphere of influence" and it actually helps stabilize areas of the world because it helps ensure that conflicting mindsets and governments do not border each other.

It helps stabilize regions in the same way the mafia helps stabilize neighbourhoods. The "sphere of influence" euphemism is only applied to regions after all governments in a region are obedient and submissive to a oppressive government and somehow ignores the aggressions and subversive campaigns that the oppressive government carries in order to dominate that said region.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[analyst-cz]

I am from the Czech republic, the country (and me myself) less than 20 years ago under the communistic Russia occupation. Reading other comments to this I have to protest:
1) The respective comment writers did evidently never experience living in the totalitarian communistic society.
2) Russia and communists were allways and are still exploiting the worse and lowest human feelings and motives.
3) They are skilled in using the propaganda based on that any points of view, that people living in the democracy can believe (or even imagine), are terribly improper when applied to the totalitary ruled society and its rulers acts. I ensure you from my own experience, that applying democratic rights to the totalitarian rulers is just supporting of the evil, believe it or not.
4) Many crisis in the past (Cuban one being just the one most sound to the West) shows, that any single concession to the Russian threats just leads to making them more and more aggressive and expansive, while they never fullfilled their threats face to face someone, who simply said "I will no way retreat, so do what you intend to." (Again, Cuban crisis is just one of such events. It is not occasional, that destruction of USSR and Warsaw pact (what was really the big world's peace threat) began after Ronald Reagan's ruling, many years told to be the one who's non-compromising will launch the WW III.)

So conclusions:
1) Please do not let to get foxed by democratic retoric of rulers, who have no connection to democracy at all (as in Berliner crisis, Vietnam and Corean war you did (I am not accusing, just commenting), what lead to literary milions of deaths in our countires).
2) Do never step back before Russian threats, as in fact only showing the weakness is what can lead them to some aggressive and destructive actions, not showing the morale and strength. Take this as the long history (longer then just the last century) approved fact.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[cloakable]

Indeed.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not true. The embargo includes sanctions against any company from anywhere in the world. You can't have business with Cuba and have business or money in the US.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you missed Israel becoming a nuclear power - despite the non-proliferation treaty etc. - effectively they became a 'rogue nuclear state', ya know what I mean, like we're all afraid Iran is going to be ^^

But don't sorry, what the GP doesn't realise is that civilized countries like Israel don't take unilateral, disproportionate action against weaker neighbors....

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[bit01]

Corporations aren't really moral entities with benevolent scruples about freedom of the press, good vs. evil, etc.

Yes they are.

Companies are nothing more than collections of individuals working together and being an employee, director or shareholder of a company doesn't mystically give those people a get-out-of-jail-free card to act unethically or immorally.

Some sociopaths try to use the companies as an excuse to act immorally/unethically but then, they're sociopaths, and should be dealt with accordingly.

---

Adopt an astroturfer. Make their life hell.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Monroe Doctrine - ever hear of it? It's my hemisphere, bitches!!!!!

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[ketilwaa]

Flogging the dead horse here: How am I trolling in this parent? The moderator function is not a discussion tool. If you disagree with any of the two stated facts, say so. It'd be a learning experience for us all.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also nowadays the only torture taking place on Cuban soil is done by American hands.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cuba is a threat to the collective ego of the United States.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

While we are on the topic of common sense, rather than American propagandist, it's also worth pointing out that the Cuban revolution was a nationalist revolution not a communism one. The whole 'communist Cuba' idea just comes from the fact that they traded with the Russia, which the USA labelled as the 'bad guys'

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[LingNoi]

I'm pretty sure if any of those boats make it from Cuba to Florida that the Coast guard machine guns the people to death, so I really don't see any difference.

The US and Cuba both kill refugees.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[kilgortrout]

Cuba is a communist dictatorship from the old school. If Fidel says Microsoft's copyrights and patents are null and void in Cuba, that's the law in Cuba. If Fidel says your an enemy of the people, you're going to die or spend a long time in a Cuban prison. That's the way dictatorships work.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[YourExperiment]

If they're unsure of the details, I'd be happy to tell them to spin.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[elrous0]

I'm pretty sure that doesn't (and, in fact, couldn't) apply to resale. MS licenses Windows to European computer companies, but that does not give them the right to then tell those companies who they can and can't sell their computers to. In fact, considering how much hot water MS is ALREADY in with the EU over monopolistic practices, that kind of heavy handedness would almost certainly result in huge fines for them if they even tried.

Non-American companies are free to sell their computers to whoever they damn well please. Not every country still holds onto an ancient Cold War-era grudge against a guy who refused to kneel down to the mighty U.S. and let himself be assassinated.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[elrous0]

"In the 1970's, the popular thing for upwardly mobile Communists was to hijack US airliners and divert them to Cuba."

If they were true supporters of liberty I guess they would have blown them up instead, like this upstanding U.S. resident did to Cubana Flight 455 in 1976.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not just the immigration of Cubans that speaks poorly of Cuba/Castro. Cuban immigrants to the US are some of the most vocal opponents of the Castro Regime. They (as a group) oppose lifting the embargo and normalizing relations with Cuba.

Personally I think we should drop the embargo, its done nothing for decades but worsen the lives of Cubans by stifling their economy.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "grudge" has a lot to do with the millions of dollars worth of private assets that were nationalized and confiscated when Castro's communist regime came to power. The Cuban exiles living in Florida who USED to be successful businessmen and landowners in Cuba are especially pissy about it.

Of course, a large portion of those assets belonged to members of international criminal organizations, and the abuses of these organizations did a lot to foster support for the revolution that resulted in the property being nationalized.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

The embargo is only between the U.S. and Cuba. They no doubt buy from another country, and there's no real reason Microsoft would want to lose them as customers. Corporations aren't really moral entities with benevolent scruples about freedom of the press, good vs. evil, etc.

Looking at the record of foreign policy, privacy, and civil liberties in this country, we also have to ask ourselves if we really have the moral high ground to make judgments about other countries like this, as well. When was the last time Cuba started an international conflict? The expression "Physician, heal thyself" springs to mind.

I recall the Cuban invasion of Grenada, so yes they have started international conflicts and they have been a threat to others, including the Cuban people.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are from Finland so you can't understand the American mindset.
Let me explain to you, it is all about the penis size. We in the US used to have the world's hegemony over the gigantic penises in the world. We were the powerful cowboys with our gigantic penises just screwing the whole world in their butts. But, then the Cubans showed up.
Cuban women have the most perfect, round and big butts in the whole planet, and they enjoy greatly the form of sexual intercourse that uses this part of the anatomy. So, as natural selection explains, Cuban men were forced to develop bigger penises, generation after generation, so they could keep the ability to satisfy their women.
So, what happened then? Americans were going after those callipygian goddesses and they were sleeping with us just because of our almighty greenback, as we couldn't possible compare to the endowment of their local "papis".
Then Fidel Castro came in the picture (no pun intended...) and blocked our access to those "mamis" and, worse, opened that access (again, no pun intended...) to the Russians!
So, that is the main reason for the economic embargo, and also the main reason why white Anglo-Saxon Americans hate Miami, Florida as that city is pretty much a Cuban city since the 80's.
We can't compete with their penises sizes, so we going to starve them to death.
If the Brazilians didn't keep the steady supply of their big-butt "mamacitas" coming to the US, we would probably do the same against the Brazilians.
Death to the Brazilians and death to the Cubans! No other people can have the penises size hegemony in the world! America! Fuck yeah!

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[psych0sis]

I'm in no way defending Cuba's government acts here, but I really don't get this "Cuba is evil" mindset that people in the US always state and that always only shows one side.

Well...us Yanks have this odd tendency to fall for propaganda long after the government has stopped pushing it.

Cubans? They're all communist. Just like Russia, China, Korea, Vietnam...

While we're at it, all Arabs are terrorists and pot makes 'Negros' rape and murder white women.

The only comfort I have is knowing that at least *some* people aren't totally close-minded and ignorant. South Park said it best: At least 25% of the country is retarded.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[sesshomaru]

Hmm, it sounds like someone doesn't believe in the Monroe Doctrine.

Pumpkin Segregation Forever!

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[BitZtream]

Doesnt USA target numerous countries with nuclear missiles?

Being targeted by nukes isn't all that scary when you know the guy with his finger on the launch button realizes that pushing it will do almost as much damage to himself if not more. A sane man with a nuke in his pocket is a threat to know one, he's not going to launch it. A man who takes over a country and then refuses to step down even though it results in his country being poverty stricken for 50 years is a slightly different kind of person to have nukes. Not that Russia was giving him the nukes any more than we gave them Gitmo.

I can tell that there are a lot of people who are more worried about Israel than Cuba, seeing Cuba isnt even very militaristic country. Why in hell would they fire a missile to a country they cant invade? Just because they are (nearly) communists and thus evil?

The communism part isn't scare. The fear is that the madman in charge would do something completely irrational like attack the US given the opportunity. Had Russia left him sitting on top of a bunch of nukes. If you think 'he wouldn't do that because it doesn't make sense', then you're an idiot and hopefully not a political leader in your country. When Castro took over Cuba he was not predictable or stable, he was a man who wanted to be in power. You have to be afraid of that, and you'd be stupid to think the size of his country is all that matter when it comes to battles. Little countries can still do massive damage, just ask Japan.

A military leader took over the country, right or wrong thats something to be concerned with. Then when faced with years of hardship for his country he held his ground and gave America the finger. Good for him, he stood up for himself. Now for the last 50 years his people have been suffering, again, making it obvious being a leader to help his people isn't his first priority and giving others something to worry about. When Russia starts bringing over some nukes to sit on Cubian soil, which could pretty easily be overrun and taken control of by the relatively new Cuban dictator, things started to get a little scary.

Cuba is not a major threat now to any one for multiple reasons, perhaps not entirely, but certainly in part due to the embargo the US has against them. The whole Cuban missle crisis was more about the cold war, American and Russia, than Cuba.

You can't compare that to Israel. They are rather predictable. Someone from Gaza launches a rocket into Israel, Israel drives a tank over them. This continues until Israel gets pissed off and starts to finally fix the problem. Then a bunch of leaders of other countries jump in to get a cease fire, which eventually Israel agrees to. A few weeks goes by, the Palistiniens launch some more rockets and the cycle repeats. The names and types of stones they are throwing has changed, but otherwise this is a 2000 year old fight. The only unpredictable part of that equation is how long there will be enough bodies on the Gaza strip to launch the rockets. Israel is actually rather restrained considering what people do to them first. The are restrained because they ARE concerned with the response from the rest of the world, otherwise they would have done the intelligent thing and wiped Gaza out a long time ago to stop that crap. Very few countries want the middle east to actually be peaceful. Keeping the middle east destabilized helps ensure they don't combine to become a superpower as well as making it easy for us to get our way on certain things we need from them. America isn't the only one playing this game, they couldn't do it without the rest of the world contributing to their respective 'sides'.

You've not heard of Cuba probably because you're young. You, like most of us need to pay much better attention to World history so we don't repeat it.

Now its a completely different argument as to if we should continue to embargo against Cuba or not.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[BitZtream]

Really, if you pay closer attention, it Palestine would stop attacking Israel it would be over.

Everything happens after a Palestinian attack.
1) Palestine attacks
2) Israel responds, possible few weeks of battle, tanks rolling over kids throwing rocks and such
3) UN 'works out a cease fire'
4) Israel says OK, but we want more buffer zone since they can obviously not be trusted, THEY broke the last cease fire!
5) A month of peace while Palestine regroups its resources to try again

I don't really know which side is 'right' or 'wrong' as this really is a war from biblical times and it doesn't REALLY matter any more. I can say that the Palestinians don't deserve to win. They have the absolute worst strategy I have ever seen. They don't even have the presence of mind to wait, gather forces and let someone else start fighting with Israel and attack at the same time.

We need to stop with this mentality that everything on the Earth deserves to live. It doesn't. Evolution is far better at making these choices than we are, stop trying to protect people who are too stupid to protect themselves. If you let Israel wipe out Gaza and kill everyone on it tomorrow, you're going to have less suffering than letting this retarded conflict carry on for another 50 years and indoctrinate another couple of generations into a lifetime of nothing but fighting.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[BitZtream]

And then they claim that people just want to run away from the bad bad Castro because he is the devil or something. :-/

He is. He could have ended the economic sanctions and hardship of his people 50 years ago, but he didn't.

You can argue it however you'd like, and talk about how bad America was in this deal, but he could have solved the problem simply by stepping down. HE made the choice not to, HE made the choice to continue to let his country suffer. America may be wrong, but Castro could have righted it by simply removing himself from the equation. His need to power/pride/whatever was more important than having his people and country prosper, so yes, that makes him the devil doesn't it.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[BitZtream]

What do you call Castro not giving up power for 50 years when thats all that would have been needed to end the conflict?

The ego thing died on this side with a gunshot to Kennedy's head.

Castro is STILL in control of the country and he and his supporters still refuse to make a simple sacrifice that would make all of their peoples lives better.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[BitZtream]

Stop spreading bullshit. The US doesn't go killing people in the middle of the ocean contrary to what your post would imply.

They (all branches of the US military, coast gaurd included) have a standing order to rescue vessels in trouble and see that the people aboard are taken care of.

Firing a shot across someones bow is the warning shot of the seas, sometimes people don't get the point and you have to fire closer, and sometimes accidents just happen. Its a risk those people take when they get on the raft/boat/whatever with the hope of reaching America.

You are about 10,000 more likely to die at sea without ever seeing a US boat than you are of seeing one on that trip. So while accidents and mistakes happen, the fear of getting shot by the US military is laughable for these people, thats almost a 'good' death as its likely to be quick rather than slow and painful, which dying due to dehydration and/or sunburn tends to be.

Not sure why you feel the need to inject some bullshit into the conversation, but if you're going to do it on slashdot, you need to know that your bullshit will be called.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I think we should drop the embargo, its done nothing for decades but worsen the lives of Cubans by stifling their economy.

With the embargo, Cubans are united against the gringos. But lifting the embargo the government will have not excuse for the economics struggles and the Cubans will overtrought the communist government.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Hal_Porter]

I hope you arent referring to Cuba Missile Crisis, because that indeed was very long ago. Even if you arent and there has been something later than that, it is hardly a valid argument. Doesnt USA target numerous countries with nuclear missiles? And support more countries that have those?

I can tell that there are a lot of people who are more worried about Israel than Cuba, seeing Cuba isnt even very militaristic country. Why in hell would they fire a missile to a country they cant invade? Just because they are (nearly) communists and thus evil?

Che Guevara was very much in favour of nuclear attack on the US.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/this-endless-myth-making_b_151217.html

When Che and Fidel Castro's guerrilla army seized power in Cuba, he was immediately - and to his delight - put in charge of the firing squads. He instituted a system of 'trials' that lasted just a few hours, with himself as sole judge. They invariably ended with the low-level functionaries of the Batista regime being lined up and shot. Che's public declarations from that time are blunt. "All right, it is dictatorship," he shouted at one point. "It's criminal to think of the needs of the individual." He even banned Santa Claus, saying he was an "American imperialist import."

The friend who had traveled with Che on the famous motorcycle journeys, David Mitrani, was shocked when they met up in Havana after the revolution. He could not understand how Che's compassionate response to poverty all those years ago had led him to announce he now wanted to become an " effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machine".

Che's fanaticism reached its peak in October 1963, when he seriously advocated a course of action that would immediately end life on earth. Che had implored the Soviet Union to place nuclear missiles on Cuba. He knew the US would interpret this as an act of aggression and probably retaliate with nuclear weapons - but he said that "the people [of Cuba] you see today tell you that even if they should disappear from the face if the earth because an atomic war is unleashed in their names... they will feel completely happy and fulfilled" knowing the revolution had inspired people for a while. Che did not say how he knew the Cuban people would be delighted to die of radiation sickness, their hair burning on their heads and their skin slopping from their faces.

The Soviet Union followed Che's advice - and the world came closer to nuclear annihilation than at any point before or since. On the American side, maniacs like General Curtis LeMay implored Jack Kennedy to nuke Moscow immediately. On the Soviet side, Che Guevara played exactly the same role. He urged Khrushchev to launch a nuclear strike, now, against US cities. For the rest of his life, he declared that if his finger had been on the button, he would have pushed it. When Khrushchev backed down and literally saved the world, Che was furious at the "betrayal". If Che's recommendations had been followed, you would not be reading this newspaper now.

None of these facts are seriously disputed by historians; they are simply skidded over by Che's Soderberg-style defenders, who stick to romantic generalities about how he stood for "honesty" and "revolution". But Che Guevara is not a free-floating icon of rebellion. He was an actual person who supported an actual system of tyranny, one that murdered millions more actual people.

If the small lingering band of communo-nostalgists who still revere Che were honest about continuing his life's work, they would have to form a group called "Left-Wingers for Creating a Universal North Korea, Prior to Universal Death in a Nuclear Winter." I don't think they would find many recruits.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[isilrion]

Easy:

Purchased copies: almost zero. Legit copies: exactly zero, tanking into account that Microsoft's EULAs explicitly forbid their use in Cuba. I'm yet to see an official (or unofficial, for that matter) Cuban facility where copyrights are respected. Even the TV shows and movies of our national TV channels come from there.

I'm a Cuban Free Software advocate, and that is the single reason why the migration path has been so hard in this country. Btw, in some instances, not even the GPL was respected. I know some members of the Nova team (the Cuban distro mentioned on the article - not the only one, btw), and they had to fight a lot to get permission from they university to publish Nova as free software... and they belong to the "free software faculty" of their university.

(In my opinion, in some cases, our disregard for foreign copyrights, specially American copyrights, would be the right thing to do... if it were done consistently and publicly.)

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[oogoliegoogolie]

The embargo affects more than just the US.
Foreign companies that do business in Cuba are forbidden to do business in the U.S.
Any ship carrying goods to Cuba cannot dock in a U.S. controlled port for a period of something like 6 months.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[isilrion]

What do you call Castro not giving up power for 50 years when thats all that would have been needed to end the conflict?

And what right do you, or your country, has to chose our leaders, and to demand Castro to be removed from power? Regardless of my own feelings on the matter, why do you care so much about it, that to achieve your goals, you are willing to torture the entire Cuban population? And what makes your wishes more important than ours?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[daem0n1x]

I guess they do it ilegally. Pirating Windows is less illegal than the embargo, anyway.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Abreu]

Because Cuban Americans were wealthy landowners and beneficiaries of the corrupt banana-republic-goverment of Batista, which was overthrown by the Cuban revolution.

Really guys, its not very difficult to see who were the good guys and the bad in this

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Abreu]

Mod Parent "+1 All True"

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[maxume]

Gently?

I mean, you are implying that they are defective...

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a dirtly little secret that Microsoft doesn't actually sell software. They don't even license it to end users.

Microsoft licenses the software to a 3rd party, who in turn licenses it to you. So in this case, Microsoft had "nothing" to do with Cuba obtaining software.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Lumpy]

It's because the rich people that had all their money taken from them by the revolution are still very pissy about it.

They have a very strong lobby in the Florida government and they threaten the Feds regular if the leave of hate for cuba and Castro is not at 100%.

What was going on in Cuba pre-castro was really bad. Yet nobody talks about that.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can tell that there are a lot of people who are more worried about Israel than Cuba, seeing Cuba isnt even very militaristic country.

Maybe I missed something, but isn't it usually other countries, such as Iraq, Lebanon, or even Hamastan, that shoot missiles and rockets at Israel?

No, it's Mossad agents dressed as Arabs that shoot missles and rockets at Israel. It's good for the war business.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[dwye]

Regardless of my own feelings on the matter, why do you care so much about it, that to achieve your goals, you are willing to torture the entire Cuban population? And what makes your wishes more important than ours?

Torture? We prevent Britney Spears from inflicting herself on you, and this is the thanks we get? :-)

More seriously, the USA was embargoed by the British Empire after of Revolution (more precisely, we could only trade in certain English ports, rather than any other closer or richer possession like e.g., Jamaica when it still had a GNP almost equal to the entire USA, or any of India where they had control), and it was the best thing that happened to US trade. Cuba can trade with the rest of the world (Mexico and Canada, as well as France via Martinique, and all South America, are within easy shipping distance) without our let, since no one else but Liberia pays any attention to the US embargo. If that is torture, so is Ferrari not making a car in my price range, forcing me to settle for Hondas.

That you haven't used the embargo to widen your trade beyond places willing to subsidize you for cheap sugar (mostly countries not much better than you, economically) is not our fault nor our problem.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[dotancohen]

You've seen Spies Like Us, right?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[dotancohen]

This is true, I don't dispute it for a minute.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Pictish Prince]

...

And most importantly, this happened a long time ago.

Not for me, you insensitive clod!

And BTW, get off my lawn!

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Shual]

I don't think this is correct. I work for a major telecoms equipment vendor. We definitely do sell into Cuba, and have billions of business in the US.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not a war from biblical times, unless WWII is biblical times. Isreal has always been inhabited by the natives, until european jews moved in and took over after WWII because the rest of the world didn't want them.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[isilrion]

Torture? We prevent Britney Spears from inflicting herself on you, and this is the thanks we get? :-)

Unfortunately, you have not been successful in that :(

That you haven't used the embargo to widen your trade beyond places willing to subsidize you for cheap sugar (mostly countries not much better than you, economically) is not our fault nor our problem.

That wasn't my point here (although it seems silly to dismiss so easily the embargo itself, if it were so harmless as you seem to claim, the US wouldn't be using it as a threat to force us to complain with their wishes). Regardless of my feelings and of the harmfulness of the embargo, the question stands: What right does BitZtream, or you, or the US Goverment has to interfere in our very internal decision of who is our leader? What moral high ground allows you to justify that interference?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Tetsujin]

Not very long ago, Cuba targeted the United States with armed nuclear missiles.

Erm, yeaaaaahhhh....

No, really! Watch Red Zone Cuba sometime. It'll explain everything.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Ardipithecus]

"how many legit copies of windows are in Cuba?"

One

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[MBGMorden]

But what about countries that deal with countries that will deal with Cuba? Selling a physical good (which software, once burned to CD, becomes) is not really a problem in that regard.

And in reality, given that we're not trading with them anyways - why wouldn't Cuba just pirate their MS software anyways?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[ElectricRook]

Oh no, Cuban refugees are granted legal residence in the US upon arriving on US soil.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cuban+refugee+policy&btnG=Google+Search&aq=5&oq=cuban+ref

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[fishbowl]

>I hope you arent referring to Cuba Missile Crisis, because that indeed was very long ago.

It was not "very long ago." The same government is ruling Cuba today, and plenty of us personally remember.

They did what they did, and people who are in power in the USA, haven't excused them just yet. It's not *my* position, so don't complain to me about it.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[shutdown -p now]

Do never step back before Russian threats, as in fact only showing the weakness is what can lead them to some aggressive and destructive actions, not showing the morale and strength. Take this as the long history (longer then just the last century) approved fact.

As a Russian citizen disillusioned in my country and its people, and currently seeking for a more sane place to live without unfounded delusions of grandeur, I can testify to the above points. The real problem, I think, is that true democracy has never got stronghold in Russia (and I don't think it will in the nearest century at the very least; we had our chance in the 90s, and we willfully blew it); and during rule of conservative populist rulers, jingoism always was and remains a powerful playing card, used at every opportunity.

This isn't to say that Russia is the only country to which such a description applies... *glances in the general direction of the smoking ruins in Iraq and coughs*

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Asic Eng]

Really, if you pay closer attention, it Palestine would stop attacking Israel it would be over.

Israeli "settlers" would still continue to expand into Palestinian territory.

If you let Israel wipe out Gaza and kill everyone on it tomorrow

It never ceases to amaze me, how some people are able to casually advocate genocide. Personally I'm not a psychopath.

Looking at the logistics of it: killing 1.5 million requires considerable infrastructure. You'd need to construct some death camps to conduct industrial-scale murder (area bombing only goes so far), maintain a strong military regime which can round-up the victims and force them into the death camps. The death toll would of course be order of magnitudes higher than 50 years of conflict. It would be more efficient just to drive out the population the way Israel is doing it now. In any case - the conflict would not stop no matter which method of genocide was used in Gaza. There are plenty of refugees in countries around Israel, there is no apparent reason why they would stop attacking Israel. The Hezbollah in Lebanon have already shown that they are able to withstand Israel with guerrilla tactics, so there is no reason to assume they would stop.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[joe74]

We all know who in the hell is a threat to whole humanity... Cuba has learned to survive to the threat I'm refering about. North-americans have always been taught to see socialism/communism as a threat in fact has never existed. They should be ashamed to support a system which enforces fear in people minds. In Cuba you are free to think different, as long as you respect other people's mind, and just as fair as you can be a natural born communist in USA. Free and Open Source Software have nothing to do with political conceptions as soon as you respect FOSS philosophy and legal framework... c'mon... freaking for that issue is just ridiculous.

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[joe74]

whose camp is it?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[galanom]

It doesn't host it, americans builit it far before Castro came to power, and they refuse to abandon it

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[analyst-cz]

As a Russian citizen disillusioned in my country and its people, and currently seeking for a more sane place to live without unfounded delusions of grandeur, I can testify to the above points.

Nice to hear such people did not die in Russia still. (I knew there are such since Moscow protestants in 1968.) Crossing fingers for you to get to some sane country (hint: travel west direction ;-) ).

This isn't to say that Russia is the only country to which such a description applies... *glances in the general direction of the smoking ruins in Iraq and coughs*

And some more... *looking towards Tiananmen Square direction, which is the same as direction to Tibet from my house*

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[Tellarin]

So every time the US don't like somebody, that person should decide to go away because the US is always right and the disliked person in question is always wrong?

Re:How did microsoft get around the embargo?

[shutdown -p now]

Nice to hear such people did not die in Russia still. (I knew there are such since Moscow protestants in 1968.)

It is a tiny minority in Russia, and not at all organized these days. Meanwhile... I don't know if you've heard, but during the recent TV poll for "The greatest Russians in history", at one point they've managed to get Stalin to #1. Gah!

(That was quite an eye opener for me; until then, I could always say that everything would be fine if the people weren't oppressed by evil rulers, etc... but in that case, it was people speaking, not the rulers; and people spoke clear enough. That's when I figured that there's no hope to actually do anything to make things better, at least in my lifetime, and the only reasonable thing to do is to leave for one's own safety.)

Replace Microsoft?

[magarity]

US companies aren't supposed to be doing business with Cuba in the first place; shouldn't their computers not even have MS products? And what make are these machines they have? Given other recent news, I assume they're HPs...

Re:Replace Microsoft?

[Bert64]

Considering most hardware is made in asia anyway, i doubt cuba has much of a problem obtaining computers...

Re:Replace Microsoft?

[Hal_Porter]

I know people who grew up in Eastern Europe. They had home computers, mostly C64s and the like imported at vast expense from the West. Apparently in Russia a few people had cloned machines, mostly from designs from Sinclair in the UK.

On the other hand I met someone who worked in a chip factory in East Germany. Everyone knew what they were doing was very far behind the west. In fact there was a joke that the first 1Mhz processor in the Eastern Bloc would fly in on a cruise missile.

This page reckons that the Soviet Block was 10-12 years behind the West at chip production.

http://www.cpushack.net/soviet-cpus.html

There were also CoCom restrictions on selling technology. You can see how this worked with this example

http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/C=Hacking/C-Hacking13/os.html

Bootstrapping was the first major problem. How do you start a new computer and debug its OS if don't have an OS on the computer? From earlier systems I already had a small monitor program - directly burned into an EPROM - able to load binaries through a serial line. Getting the MMU (74ls610) was the second problem, because it was on the CoCom list, and it was not allowed to export to eastern countries. (Although I don't live in an eastern country, this posed some difficulties...)

So if you were an Eastern Block engineer you'd have to get someone to buy this MMU on the black market somehow which cost precious hard currency. Or you could get some local factory to make a clone. Obviously either are harder than buying it from a mailorder shop.

My guess is that the Cubans set up a front company and buy PCs somewhere in the West and then probably pirate the software.

Re:Replace Microsoft?

[wmac]

You download Windows from torrent, copy it on 1000 CDs and sell them $2 each. Then 1000 people can use it :)

In Iran for example at least 10-20 million copies of windows are used this way. Not even 0.5% of the copies are legal.

Re:Replace Microsoft?

[Jaysyn]

Then why don't they have newer cars there? From everything I've read & seen they are still driving around patchwork American antiques.

Genuine Advantage

[unlametheweak]

Since Microsoft isn't allowed to sell (and presumably license) its software to Cuba or Cuban companies, then it would appear that Cuba would have illegal copies of Microsoft Windows that would fail the Genuine Advantage checks.

Re:Genuine Advantage

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft obeys laws that limit its profitability?

I am sure that there is some middle man between Microsoft and the Cuban government, but I cannot see Microsoft passing up even one country, especially one as educated as Cuba.

My understanding is that buying from Cuba is much harder than selling to Cuba, as overselling to a Venezuelan distributer is pretty much guaranteed to result in Cuban sales. However if the Cuban products are not stamped made in Venezuela, they won't make it through US customs.

Insane import-export duties and artificial exchange rates are as close as a government can come to passing a law requiring an underground smuggling network for their intelligence agencies to use for moving contraband around.

Re:Genuine Advantage

[ChunderDownunder]

It would be quite simple, really, for Cuba to go 100% legit.

Instead of an entry tax, every foreign national must declare on arrival a boxed copy of Windows. I'm not sure how many visitors Cuba receives a year but if that happened for a year, the rate of adoption for Windows 7 would be higher than most western countries.

Whether the MS EULA has explicit clauses on "this software may not be installed in regions for which the US has an embargo", I dunno.

Now if, instead of Windows, they modified that scheme to OLPC (One Laptop Per Cubano), every Cuban could legitimately have a netbook. The benefit for the tourist? Uncle Raul could drop the dual economy that sees Westerners being fleeced wherever they pay for goods and services in dollars instead of pesos. Plus, the goodwill of knowing they were improving the lot of the average Cuban in a material way.

Re:Genuine Advantage

[enrevanche]

It would be Cuban law that determined the legitimacy of the copyright. Since the U.S. does not have formal diplomatic relations with Cuba, then probably is no way of determining this.

Vive Cuba ! Linux?

[WiiVault]

or just Fuck Capitalists Linux? So many choices!

linux == commie

[timmarhy]

I knew it.

I heard..

[Anonymous Coward]

the default WM is the new 'Commiz'?

Not that I had used those... *cough*

[Anonymous Coward]

...but many pirated copies can pass those checks. Have been able to do that for a long time.

And they could have bought computers from some European retailer with pre-installed Windows.

What I am impressed with is a country that just made having personal computers legal is developping Linux distro.

Ever since hearing that, I have been aspiring to move to Cuba after getting my degree in CS. It will be pretty rapidly growing market there in a while.

Re:Not that I had used those... *cough*

[unlametheweak]

...but many pirated copies can pass those checks

I would think Microsoft would get suspicious of IP addresses coming from Cuba, or maybe I'm making the wrong assumptions on how the Genuine Advantage cracking is done.

At any rate I'd be interested in knowing if all these Linux operating systems that are coming out of politically dubious countries (Russia, China, and now Cuba) will be completely open source, or if there will be any proprietary back-doors, etc.

Re:Not that I had used those... *cough*

[setagllib]

Yes, in stark contrast to the politically flawless United States, having no record of any government involvement with production of open source or proprietary software. Pleeeeeaaaaassssssssseeeee.

Re:Not that I had used those... *cough*

[TwilightXaos]

While the above post may be "Interesting" to some, it is a blatant example of a Tu Quoque Fallacy. Ignoring that the GP did not seek to praise the US government for its actions, the US government's involvement in any software production is not relevant.

Re:Not that I had used those... *cough*

[setagllib]

That's not true. OP questions whether software from Cuba, Russia, China, etc. can be trusted, and I imply that there is no reason to trust software from the USA either. Windows and Linux have both had contributions from the NSA, for instance, and while the contributions to Linux have been widely audited, Windows clearly has not.

If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[tlambert]

If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

-- Terry

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[sapphire wyvern]

Castrix does seem to go well with Unix...

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[Anonymous Coward]

Oddly enough, "Castrix" has been used as a trade name for a particularly nasty rat poison.

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[Anonymous Coward]

That's good!!!

I was thinking Cubuntu.

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[Anonymous Coward]

Thankfully trademarks are industry-specific, but more to the point if the Cuba government want to call it "Microsoft Diet NikeCoke Levis" in Cuba then who's going to stop them?

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[UnixUnix]

Infidelcastrix?

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[jejones]

I watched too much I Love Lucy when I was a kid; I was thinking Babalubuntu.

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[gringer]

I thought Castrix came before Unix

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[ei4anb]

no, it just has to be Cuba Libre !

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[Goenk]

"Fidel Distro" would get my vote for sure!

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[greebowarrior]

Somehow I get the feeling there won't be a public vote on this...

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[IAmNotBillGates]

Castrix does seem to go well with Unix...

However, it's a Cobelix' best friend.

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[zbharucha]

I go for "Cubix".

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[Anonymous Coward]

you mean GNU/Castrix

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[TractorBarry]

But it would make a great Slashdot poll.

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[psych0sis]

Yea, I'll give Castrix a vote. I wonder if you get on "the list" for installing a Cuban OS.

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[mschoolbus]

Retarded Hat Linux

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[molecular]

If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

-- Terry

fidex

fidelix

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[Abreu]

"Software Libre de codigo abierto para una Cuba Libre"

And for what its worth, I download my Ubuntu updates from the National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM), long believed by the CIA to be a bastion of communist thinking

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[Lumpy]

Why not...

Revolution' OS?

Viva Le Revolution' OS!

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

[Tetsujin]

Counter-Revolution OS...

Cuban Linux distro name

[Aranwe Haldaloke]

Tell me I'm not the only one who expected its name to be Cubuntu.

Re:Cuban Linux distro name

[caustin_sd]

I've been reading slashdot since it started. I registered today just to say that's f*cking hilarious.

Re:Cuban Linux distro name

[Anonymous Coward]

You are aware that you can make posts without registering, right?

Re:Cuban Linux distro name

[Anonymous Coward]

Another innocent Internet user falls prey to the temptations and lures of Slashdot.

Say goodbye to your time!

Re:Cuban Linux distro name

[Rikiji7]

this rocks

Re:Cuban Linux distro name

[Trashman]

Throw this Cuban Linux Distro on an ePC and Whenever you pull it out: "Say hello to my little Friend."

I hate this mentality

[Coder4Life]

From the article: "Private software can have black holes and malicious codes that one doesn't know about," Rodriguez said. "That doesn't happen with free software." While i'm not backing M$ here by any means, this type of thinking is dangerous. Both proprietary and open source software are going to have "black holes" and "malicious codes", it's naive to think otherwise. It should have read: "When black holes and malicious codes that one doesn't know about appear in software, the open source community is going to be more aware and quicker to patch said vulnerabilities"

Re:I hate this mentality

[nsaneinside]

I don't know (but I suspect) that we'd be quicker, but at least we have the option to look without being accused of paranoia.

Or perversion.

Re:I hate this mentality

[QuantumG]

Gah. Are you retarded or what? The whole fucking point of the article is that the Cuban government wants to be able to look for back doors in the software. They're not relying on the open source community being "more aware and quicker to patch said vulnerabilities", at all. This is simply a case of Cubans saying "why are we running software we can't even inspect?"

Re:I hate this mentality

[timmarhy]

you sir are the retarded one. there are better ways to protect and detect against backdoors than viewing the source.

name me one case of a trojan being detected via open source.

Re:I hate this mentality

[The End Of Days]

I imagine adding back doors might be more their aim, actually.

This quote from the summary:

Getting greater control over the informatic process is an important issue

certainly doesn't sound to me like concern over inspection so much as the ability to add surveillance. Control over information isn't exactly a goal you can label "open."

Re:I hate this mentality

[QuantumG]

Bwahaha.. that'd be all of them.

Please, do tell us these other ways of discovering back doors, we'll wait.

Re:I hate this mentality

[Bert64]

By "black hole" i think he means "something unknown", like a black box... Which you don't have if you are in possession of the source.

Re:I hate this mentality

[wmac]

It might alternatively mean using computers independent from evil US microsoft!

Detecting backdoors is possible even by moderately professional people.

Re:I hate this mentality

[Clarious]

I don't think there are many people who is retarded enough to contribute code that contain backdoor to a FOSS project. And even if they do, most won't be accepted.

And yeah, tell us other ways to detect the backdoor that are better than viewing the source.

Re:I hate this mentality

[ais523]

name me one case of a trojan being detected via open source.

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/linux-backdoor-attempt-thwarted (admittedly, that's giving a URL not naming, but I think it was defeated so quickly it wasn't even given a name).

Now, name me one case of a trojan that wasn't created because the source code was closed.

Re:I hate this mentality

[Coder4Life]

!drinkKoolAid... Did you even read the article before you started spewing? Even if you didn't, I linked the exact quote I was referencing. How do you get :"the Cuban government wants to be able to look for back doors in the software." out of "Private software can have black holes and malicious codes that one doesn't know about," Rodriguez said. "That doesn't happen with free software"? You sir, have had a context fail...

Re:I hate this mentality

[gtall]

More to the point, it is Cuban Government wanting to put in their own back doors for their National OS. Did you just fall off the turnip truck or simply put your head in the sand for fun?

Red (Castro) Hat Linux?

[kkrajewski]

(that is all.)

Ramiro Valdes for President of Cuba

[digitaltraveller]

Sounds like the smartest Cuban leader I've heard about in awhile...

Re:Ramiro Valdes for President of Cuba

[Antique Geekmeister]

Well, don't underestimate Castro himself. This looks like just the sort of thing he'd have enjoyed, when active, to stick it to those American capitalist pig-dogs and actually have something working that can be done locally. Cuba's big problem is lack of connectivity: their biggest Internet neighbors do _not_ want to share bandwidth with them.

I vote for..

[doomicon]

Castrate Linux

Re:I vote for..

[Anonymous Coward]

NOOOooo! Not the penguin balls!

Re:I vote for..

[jc42]

Castrate Linux

Nah; too unsubtle. It should be Castrix. That provides the requisite word-play, and hides the true meaning.

The big deal

[moniker127]

I dont see the big deal here. Governments would love to have direct control of operating systems, so that they can place undocumented "features" inside them. Even if they release the source code (which I suppose they have to, theoretically), 99.99% of the users who will be employing their distro will not be able to understand what source code even is, or how to interpret it.
Well, I guess there are still people (the people who are reading this message) who will be able to report any backdoors/home phoning they notice placed into the source, but that will only make a difference provided:
1- Cuba releases the source
2- The distro is popular enough to have people using it
3- People carefully examine the source code
4- Said examiners are able to spot a problem
5- Said problem is heard by the end users of the distro
6- End users of the distro have options as to what operating system they are able to use, if it is mandated by the government, they pretty much have to live with it.

Re:The big deal

[The End Of Days]

Why would they have to release the source code, exactly? Is Stallman going to march the GNU army into Havana and depose the government for ignoring his manifesto?

Re:The big deal

[wmac]

- You set a firewall or sniffer and investigate the traffic and you see socket connections to strange destinations.

- You post your discovery on forums and websites

- Others confirm the thing

- people stop using the distro and move to other distros

Re:The big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

And this scenario differs from MS's NSA-backdoors how exactly?

Oh, right, we can't get the source..

Re:The big deal

[howlingmadhowie]

basically, yes.

if cuba tried to distribute gpl software without source, i'm sure the fsf could get ibm and google to go ape-shit about it.

Re:The big deal

[Jaysyn]

Which makes me wonder what happens when a government willfully violates the GPL. How do you sue Cuba or South Korea for violations?

Fidel Penguin?

[jtara]

I'd love to see the logo be an image of Fidel dressed-up as a penguin.

I'm pretty sure the guy has a sense of humor. When I was a kid, I was a "shortwave listener" (before I got my ham license) and sent of to Radio Havana (among others) for a "QSL" card, confirming that I had heard their station.

Besides the card, I got other periodic mailings, including a Christmxxxx New Year card one year, bearing the cartoon likeness of Fidel Castro, laid-out on the dining-room table as a pig, complete with an apple in his mouth. I kid you not. I'll bet he had a big laugh.

Wish I still had it - could probably sell it for a bundle on eBay!

(Other "interesting" material I received included a copy of the Little Red Book from Radio Peking, and a subscription to China Pictorial - a beautifully-printed bled-to-edge full color magazine with gorgeous pictures of fields and tractors...)

Re:Fidel Penguin?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey is any of that still going on? I never did get a sw radio but I spent a few months studying attempting to get my tech license (Missed by like 3 questions and was too lazy to get back around for a retest.) Anyways it's so rare to see anything of interest like that nowadays, be cool to find out it still happened.

Re:Fidel Penguin?

[Anonymous Coward]

And a file at the FBI as a bonus ;)

Re:Fidel Penguin?

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides the card, I got other periodic mailings, including a Christmxxxx New Year card one year, bearing the cartoon likeness of Fidel Castro, laid-out on the dining-room table as a pig, complete with an apple in his mouth. I kid you not. I'll bet he had a big laugh.

If i remember well the documentaries, "The Pig" was Che's nickname.

Re:Fidel Penguin?

[pev]

Well, I think the image of Tux smoking a big Cuban cigar could look superb, despite being a bit like waving a red cloak at the health fascists who'd take offence...

Re:Fidel Penguin?

[Hal_Porter]

I'd love to see the logo be an image of Fidel dressed-up as a penguin.

I'm pretty sure the guy has a sense of humor. When I was a kid, I was a "shortwave listener" (before I got my ham license) and sent of to Radio Havana (among others) for a "QSL" card, confirming that I had heard their station.

Besides the card, I got other periodic mailings, including a Christmxxxx New Year card one year, bearing the cartoon likeness of Fidel Castro, laid-out on the dining-room table as a pig, complete with an apple in his mouth. I kid you not. I'll bet he had a big laugh.

Yeah, good old Castro.

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y07/sep07/28e2.htm

Berks County, PA - Fidel Castro's daughter has a sense of humor.

Addressing a virtually full house Tuesday night in the Perkins Student Center Auditorium at Penn State Berks, Alina Fernandez Revuelta entertained and informed the audience with humorous stories and facts about her Cuban homeland.

She also spoke of Castro, whom she described as a tall, hairy man wreathed in cigar smoke and dressed in green fatigues who visited the home where she lived with her mother, Nati Revuelta.

Fernandez described her mother as striking: tan and blonde, "with a voluptuous criolla figure like a Coca Cola bottle."

Nati married Orlando Fernandez, a doctor who had operated on her ruptured appendix and fell in love with her, Fernandez said.

They had one child, Fernandez's older sister, but then Fulgencio Batista overthrew the government.

The struggle against Batista brought together Nati and Fidel Castro, then an opposition candidate.

Nati and Fidel wrote to each other when he was imprisoned, Fernandez said, and she believes it was through those letters that they fell in love.

Fernandez told of watching cartoons on television one day in 1959, when she was 3 years old. Suddenly the images showed triumphant men marching through the streets.

"The cartoons were replaced by hairy men - for 50 years," she said.

Shouts of "Viva Cuba libre!" (Long live free Cuba!) were soon replaced by shouts of "Paredon!" (To the wall!), as the revolution ensured its permanence by brutally annihilating the opposition, Fernandez said.

Orlando had to abandon the country, taking his daughter with him, because his clinic was an example of free enterprise. Street vendors were prohibited for the same reason.

"They even took out the parking meters," she said. "Well, maybe that was a good thing."

At age 10, she learned who her biological father was.

At first she enjoyed the freedom from having to write essays at school about her counterrevolutionary father and older sister, but then people started bringing petitions to her, hoping to catch Castro's ear.

But for all its rhetoric, the regime could never answer her questions about social issues.

Discontented, Fernandez studied medicine and later diplomacy but did not finish her degrees.

She became a model and later a public-relations director for a Cuban fashion company.

She also became a dissident.

Friends in the United States sent her enough money to engineer her escape to Madrid, disguised as a Spanish tourist, in December 1993.

Two weeks later her teenage daughter was allowed to leave.

Does she miss anything from Cuba?

"I miss the dancing," she said, describing how a record player and a place to dance were all the entertainment people needed.

Would she go back to a post-Castro Cuba?

"It's not a place I want to go back to," she said, "but maybe, if I could feel useful."

Re:Fidel Penguin?

[BitZtream]

WTF is Christmxxxx?

Re:Fidel Penguin?

[badkarmadayaccount]

Castro running Slackware? *head explodes*

Not if it's Red Hat based

[russlar]

If it's Red Hat based, I say Sombrero!

Re:Not if it's Red Hat based

[surman]

If it's Red Hat based, I say SombrerOS!

There, fixed it for you.

Re:Not if it's Red Hat based

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and it's meant to replace Buena Vista

Re:Not if it's Red Hat based

[prograde]

You seem to have confused Cuba with Mexico. Try this.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you are a product of the American educational system.

Re:Not if it's Red Hat based

[Anonymous Coward]

Cuba isn't Mexic

Re:Not if it's Red Hat based

[Anonymous Coward]

Sombrojo? just sayin'

Re:Not if it's Red Hat based

[Tiger4]

No, call it Red Beret. Finally that picture of Che can be put somewhere that makes sense.

Re:Not if it's Red Hat based

[Anonymous Coward]

How about Chebian

Re:Not if it's Red Hat based

[Anonymous Coward]

This name is pathetically stupid

Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[WindBourne]

There market is about to shrink in a BIG way. If they were smart, they would jump on a couple of distros of linux and make sure that they are the standards. Adobe, Intuit, AutoCad all have programs that are in demand. If they port to this, they can quit having to compete against MS on MS's turf. More importantly, they would get a WHOLE NEW market with minimal competition.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[zappepcs]

I said something similar regarding the Russian decision to use Linux. It wasn't received too well. I think that this sort of event truly does mean trouble for MS and proprietary software in a rather large way.

I think that it is more likely that F/OSS developers will beat large proprietary vendors to the punch though. There will be a new market for proprietary Linux software though. When Adobe does port to Linux it doesn't have to be Free or Open Source to run on Linux, but it will be hard to sell software to people that are happy to use the F/OSS alternatives.

It should be interesting times.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[spandex_panda]

There market is about to shrink...

err... Sorry to be a grammar Nazi, but... since your sig is:

I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

It seems timely to let you know that you should have used "their".

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[WindBourne]

hehehe. Hangs head in shame. It is late.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[WindBourne]

You are Right. You have red flag in China; The new one in Russia; Various South American states are talking about doing more. Funny thing is, NOW is the time to fire up new apps on Linux. The other companies like Adobe, Intuit, etc are NOT there. A start-up can make a killing by not having commercial competition. As to FOSS beating them to the punch, FOSS works GREAT for OSs and MAJOR apps. But when you have SPECIALIZED apps, like say design a deck for a house, or design your yard, etc. than Commercial really shines; Service, Market or Trade Data, etc. I would not be surprised to see a number of new start up companies around the world taking on these companies because they have the Windows system locked up. That is how it happened on the move from mainframe to DOS and then Windows. The companies that had the mainframe locked up did not move until new and better competition came along.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[Anonymous Coward]

commercial =/= proprietary

commercial is ok, proprietary is not ok

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[Jafafa Hots]

But some large company probably has a patent for "designing a deck using a computer."

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[RAMMS EIN]

All commercial software I have ever written runs on Linux. Almost all companies I've worked for ran Linux on some or all of their computers. All customers I've worked with ran Linux on some or all of their computers. And most of these computers running Linux ran commercial software.

Linux is already big. Linux is already receiving major commercial support.

The only reason people think Linux isn't big is that it isn't big on the desktop.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[Tubal-Cain]

A start-up can make a killing by not having commercial competition.

One thing I am concerned about is that Linux is a moving target. Will an app developed today work on a distro 10 years from now, without having to rewrite it to match the modern libraries? (Wouldn't that lead to linux dll's?) Something like Gentoo's ability to have multiple versions of the same package would be useful...

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[Jedi Alec]

I said something similar [slashdot.org] regarding the Russian decision to use Linux. It wasn't received too well. I think that this sort of event truly does mean trouble for MS and proprietary software in a rather large way.

Nah, it's a conspiracy by Microsoft. By associating Linux with (former) communists at least they make sure never to lose their marketshare in the USA.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[dbcad7]

I don't think that software for designing a deck is the type of specialty software that concerns businesses.. It is more likely something like apps for medical records, point of sale, accounting, and cad/cam..Many done by people selling equipment with this custom software as part of a package.

All of these can be done in Linux, and some have but are either flaky in their free versions, or fairly expensive in pay versions. Cad programs in particular made for Linux, suffer from the same overpricing as Windows IMHO... For some reasons, the makers of CAD software have decided that people who draw things in CAD programs make a lot of money off using their product to draw things, and that means they deserve a larger piece of the pie, than someone who makes say a photo editor.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[Tranzistors]

One thing I am concerned about is that Linux is a moving target

Surely, all apps written for XP works on Vista.
If you want standing targets, take Solaris :)

Also, if you don't trust libraries not to have regressions, pack your software with them, look at XAMMP for example

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[Jaysyn]

Well AutoDesk *used* to make a version of AutoCAD for Unix, so I'm sure it wouldn't take a whole lot for them to get rolling on that ball again if it was worth it to them.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[WindBourne]

Yes, but what you just listed are MAJOR apps. There are FOSS apps in these lines. Some are competing, others are not. You can bet on it, that some unemployed ppl are going to get the bright idea of providing support AND data on these and selling them.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[WindBourne]

The only reason people think Linux isn't big is that it isn't big on the desktop. Exactly. That is why MS fears Linux, not Apple. Apple has a chunk of desktop and a big lead in mp3 players and very small lead in SINGLE phone (and shrinking). They are pretty much locked in because they are just an appliance group. Linux is an OS that others can play and sell with.
But Linux on the desktop is about to take off. And when it does, all the other types of areas (servers, large embedded, small embedded, even hard real times), will expand greatly as the world learns about little bitty tux.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[Anonymous Coward]

OSS shines when you are using it as a toy or in an environment that is separate from the rest of the world, or in the limited cases where you can use a truly open protocol for accomplishing your goal (protocol could be a file format too you know).

OSS sucks for forward/backwards compatibility which tend to be slightly important to goverments. You think Office is bad NOW? You have absolutely no idea how bad it would have been had the US government not bought Microsoft products and required compatibility.

What will happen is will have a goverment distro for linux or something like that, and then 600 splinter distros that were 'based on it' but are pretty much incompatible in a bunch of stupid ways so software written for gov distro won't work.

Really, Linux and the number of distros it has is like watching software move backwards in time. Kind of like moving between Office 2003 and 2007. Take a fine working product and shoot yourself in the foot by making more variations for no real reason.

Linux won't be the OSS that governments will settle on. At least not the way it is managed today. Decentralized development is nice and all when you're a bunch of geeks who all think you are doing it the right way and no one else can do it better.

Governments on the other hand tend to tell you what the right way is and don't give a fuck if it really is the right way or you know something better.

Expect to see something like one of the BSDs or the project will fail as the government won't be able to manage differences between all the computers they deal with.

If Linux wants to take off it needs to stop being a moving target. Unfortunately no one involved, right down to Linus himself wants to do what needs to be done. They are HAPPY with it being a moving target that no one wants to target a real app for. And thats fine of course. But the fanboys really need to get over this crap of trying to shoehorn Linux into everything when the people who write it OBVIOUSLY don't want that to happen.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[domatic]

I have a copy of Unreal Tournament from 2000 or 2001. It was originally installed on Mandrake and has been through a number of Debian and Ubuntu installs. I fired it up last week just fine. The main reason it continues to work without tweakage on my part is that it appears to be linked with it's own versions of critical libraries like SDL that were supplied with the game. So if an app developer knows what they are doing then yes you can supply a binary-that-will-run-for-damn-near-ever for Linux systems as well.

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot India. They have BOSS Linux. http://bosslinux.in/

Re:Commercial apps are in for REAL trouble.

[dbcad7]

The applications I mentioned,, may be "major", but they are specialty apps because the vast majority of users don't require things like business accounting software. Something like a deck designing program is also a specialty program, and I imagine there are individual instances of such "subset" applications that would hinder a business from switching.. but I think it is mainly the "major specialty" applications that are causing the problems.

I know (and I said) that there are apps already out there for these things..I hope that people do get entrepreneurial, and that some of these projects are worked on and improved.. I am all for it.

Where do you get the parts?

[Steauengeglase]

Lunix can run on a '59 Eldorado? Impressive.

Re:Where do you get the parts?

[Dahamma]

Yeah, but the newest version they could get was 0.98. They are still maintaining it, though!

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix...

[davidsyes]

I vote "Fidelity" or "Fidelix" (Raulix doesn't sound quite right....) ... in honor of the Regime outlasting multiple US administrations...

Re:Terrible News! Please read!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I am. What does that have to do with anything?

I can hear the cries now...

[Lord Kano]

Godless communists.

Seriously though, how can software be free when the people aren't?

LK

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[kcbanner]

Well, if they aren't worshipping a god, looks like they are free already.

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[ElectricRook]

They aren't worshipping God because they are under restrictions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Cuba

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[entgod]

So they are free but they are not free to not be free?

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perfect definition of freedom.

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[Anonymous Coward]

So you don't have any restrictions at all regarding the way you think or believe?

There's no single thought that if made public, could land you in a secret or otherwise prison? I live in Europe and I can't think of any country here that cold truly claim that - hate crime laws alone rule it out. I severely doubt that even the land of the Free has escaped this.

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[ElectricRook]

It's not the thoughts, but the actions...

And plotting violence is in fact a crime.

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[Lord Kano]

Well, if they aren't worshipping a god, looks like they are free already.

Atheism by choice is freedom. Atheism at the end of an AK-47 is no better than any other form of religious oppression.

In case you were unaware, the Cubans don't have the first one.

LK

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[kcbanner]

I was just responding your your calling them "godless communists", why would you say that when yourself agree that is not their choice?

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[Lord Kano]

~~~~~~~~~JOKE>
  O
-+- YOU
/\

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[kcbanner]

Well played. We shall do battle again. /me cape flourish

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just keep telling yourself that.

Little old, but the folks are still in jail:
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/defenders/hrd_cuba/alert_031507_biscet.htm

Re:I can hear the cries now...

[Lord Kano]

/me runs fingers through beard

I look forward to it.

LK

You forgot your hat

[iminplaya]

The whole thing has been cleverly orchestrated by Microsoft. And when they defeat the red menace, they shall be seen as heroes.Beautiful plan. I wish I thought of it myself.

Re:You forgot your hat

[Anonymous Coward]

Beautiful plan. I wish I thought of it myself.

Ballmer, is that you??

Its! Its! Not it's!

[DaveBarr]

If only we could invent a version of Linux that had a spellchecker which would shoot the user in the head for not one but two typos of "it's". Jesus Christ folks, YOU CAN'T EVEN FUCKING CUT AND PASTE THE CORRECT SPELLING FROM THE ORIGINAL FUCKING ARTICLE!?

Copyleft

[Anonymous Coward]

What makes anyone here think Cuba will honor the GPL copyleft license? They're packaging this shit to spy on the populace, plain and simple ... any source code you get is not what people will be running.

Re:Copyleft

[Anonymous Coward]

Any proof for this is or is it just more rantings of an Ameriturd talking out of his ass? You Ameriturds don't really have much to gloat over considering how widely your own government was spying on your fellow Ameriturds with the help of the Ameriturd telecoms.

Nova, eh?

[photomonkey]

Chevy had some trouble in Mexico and South America with it's 'Nova,' because the name is a play on no va, or it doesn't go.

Funny that Cuba would pick such a name for their new OS.

Re:Nova, eh?

[dido]

Apparently that old story just isn't true.

Re:Nova, eh?

[canIgetadamnickname]

It's true enough that no va means "no go" in Spanish, but not beleivable that the name would retard sales of a car. In fact, unleaded gasoline from Mexico's state petrol monopoly is called "Nova". Nescafe is one of the largest selling coffees in Mexico (especially instant and decaf Nescafe) even though most people call it "Noescafe", meaning, "It's not coffee".

Re:Nova, eh?

[Bonobo_Unknown]

The Daewoo "espero" is though...

Re:Nova, eh?

[z0idberg]

I dont know about the Nova, but I do remember seeing a Cuban guy laughing hysterically after just arriving at Sydney airport and seeing a Mitsubishi Pajero parked outside.

Re:Nova, eh?

[Tubal-Cain]

I think this part is especially concise:

Assuming that Spanish speakers would naturally see the word "nova" as equivalent to the phrase "no va" and think "Hey, this car doesn't go!" is akin to assuming that English speakers woud spurn a dinette set sold under the name Notable because nobody wants a dinette set that doesn't include a table.

Re:Nova, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Was he laughing at the name, or the car though? :D

Re:Nova, eh?

[orzetto]

"Nova" is a perfectly fine word in Spanish, meaning "new" in the feminine gender. It is also pronounced /'nova/, while "No va" would be /'no 'va/, with accent on both words; it is therefore written and spoken differently. Obviously if they end up with a crappy distro, people will start making that sort of puns.

Re:Nova, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it would be pronounced /'noba/. There is no /v/ sound in Spanish; the letter V is pronounced the same as the letter B.

Re:Nova, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

At least Honda Fitta, translates to Honda Cunt in some Nordic languages. Even "The (male) dogs cunt" in some dialects (roughly, can't be fully translated to English, because of the simplistic grammar in English).

Re:Nova, eh?

[jc42]

That "Notable" dinette set is a good illustration. In the case of the old myth about "nova" meaning "no va" in Spanish, there's a more direct way of debunking it. Most native speakers of Spanish are Catholics, and even if they aren't, any minimally-educated Spanish speaker will know enough basic Latin to understand that "nova" is Latin for "nueva". So even if they see the "nova/no va" pun (and most would), it would hardly be worth even a grin.

Another variant of the myth would be to claim that English-speaking people didn't buy Chevy Novas because they were afraid it would explode.

Re:Nova, eh?

[photomonkey]

According to this site, nova isn't a perfectly acceptable word.

I can't pretend to know every word in every language, but my extensive travels in Mexico have not exposed me to nova at all, let alone meaning new.

In Latin, nova is a first declension feminine meaning 'new' (where 'novus' is the masculine'). In Spanish, the most common word for new is 'nuevo/a' depending on the gender of the word it modifies.

In what countries is 'nova' new? I'm genuinely interested.

Re:Nova, eh?

[Abreu]

Just to clarify, "Nova" gasoline was the last brand of leaded gasoline sold by Pemex, and it was discontinued at least 10 years ago.

Asi que la gasolina Nova ya no va...

Re:Nova, eh?

[Abreu]

"Pajero" means someone who masturbates in some countries spanish slang

I probably earned a "whoosh!"

Five Year Plan

[LuYu]

How is Linux supposed to shed its very undeserved "communist" image if these commie countries keep using it? ;-P

Seriously, though, it is nice to know that even communist countries are starting to avoid the old MS 5 Year Plan.

Oblig. Strongbad

[nonpareility]

If you want it to be possessive, it's just I-T-S.
But if it's supposed to be a contraction, then it's I-T-apostrophe-S.
Scallywag.

Linuba

[Anonymous Coward]

Linuba sounds cubanish

Re:Its! Its! Not it's!

[bcrowell]

Aw, come on. Sure, there were two "it's" mistakes in the article, but they both occurred in one sentence. The entire second sentence was completely free of "it's" mistakes. That represents real progress for slashdot. Actually, I believe slashdot's Central Committee For the Eradication of "It's" Mistakes (also known as COMINITS) has set a goal of reducing the average rate of "it's" mistakes to no more than three per sentence by the end of the current five-year plan. That means that production of "it's"-mistake-free sentences is actually 783% ahead of last year's production!

CUBIX

[Tablizer]

"Cubix"? Isn't that the name of Palin's new kid?

lowering the expectations

[JoeZ99]

I've been living in cuba for the last 6 years. I've been using linux since the slackware 100 diskettes era (about 12 years ago).

• cuba is absolutely windows friendly. everybody in everywhere uses windows. The goverment itself announced a few years ago it was going to migrate to linux. So far nothing yet.
• cuba works around the embargo thing by means of massive pirate copies (I'm perfectly OK with that).
• it's a usual thing to announce something with great fireworks that ends up in nothing, so I would have not so many expectations on this .

Re:lowering the expectations

[nog_lorp]

What? You live in Cuba, I live in the USA! How did your post reach me!?!?

Re:lowering the expectations

[Kildjean]

Diablos... yo usaba ese mismo Slackware, eran 100 floppies de 1.44mb Espero que algun dia tu pais lo liberen... --- So cuba is microsoft friendly... do you guys play world of warcraft too and have playestation 3 or xbox360?

Re:lowering the expectations

[Anonymous Coward]

• it's a usual thing to announce something with great fireworks that ends up in nothing, so I would have not so many expectations on this.

Very interesting. In Cuba-friendly Venezuela, a few years ago, much ado was made of "Decree 3390" which aimed to have the government replace M$ software with FOSS. The people responsible for this have all moved onto "greener" pastures and those at ground level that agreed with this decree have been left behind in the dust, hoping for the day ...

Sounds like more of the same.

Re:lowering the expectations

[SolitaryMan]

Sorry, I live in Russia and I'm afraid I have something to do with it...

Re:lowering the expectations

[slygrayling]

To be honest i dont think they will have their thumb out their ass in a long long time.

Re:lowering the expectations

[Anonymous Coward]

"it's a usual thing to announce something with great fireworks that ends up in nothing, so I would have not so many expectations on this ."

Typical of these so called revolutionary countries, like Venezuela. They also have announced a local distro based on Debian I think to replace Windows as well as a law obliging government offices to use Linux. That was around 5 years ago...Still lots of government offices use Windows.

Re:Its! Its! Not it's!

[Chonnawonga]

"According to Reuters, it seems that Cuba has launched it's own variation of grammar in order to fulfill it's government's desire to replace Microsoft operating systems. "Getting greater control over the idiomatic process is an important issue..."

Free people

[tsa]

So now Cuba has free software but not free people? It's a strange world we live in.

Re:Free people

[Anonymous Coward]

You think the US (or any other country) has "free people"?

Re:Free people

[pipingguy]

I sorta like the concept of free people too, I just don't know where I'd put them all.

Re:Free people

[Anonymous Coward]

You think the US (or any other country) has "free people"?

To begin any war there is no much difference between "free people" and "cheap people".

Re:Free people

[jamesmcm]

Funny that the comment above you is JoeZ99 talking about living in Cuba. I don't think it's as bad as people make out, but my cousin is going there next week so I'll ask him when he returns.

Re:Free people

[Anonymous Coward]

Open Source is based on free speech. Think what could happen if this idea spreads through the country. BTW when the US would really like to change the regime on Cuba, they should drop the embargo. This would also weakening the plans to form an anti-US economy alliance in Latin-America. However, the US is on some sort of McCarthy trip when it comes to Cuba. They are more relaxed when it comes to China.

Re:Free people

[Antique Geekmeister]

I hear they're emptying out Guantanamo. I'm sure there'll be one empty cell that can hold them all.

Re:Free people

[joe74]

You shoulda started defining "free people", as guy like me know only . It's kind of a relative term that I could use against people self-called free.

Re:Free people

[tsa]

Free as in speech, of course.

Two-sided coin

[canIgetadamnickname]

It's a smart move. And ironically, it plays into the hands of the young underground there, who use flash drives to get around internet repression. When I'm there I ususally try to take a few drives to hand out, and everybody wants them with linux on them. The cool thing is, free systems might be good for fighting MS/US hegemony... but they are also just the thing for dealing with a repressive local government.

Obviously it was

[Anonymous Coward]

Only Built 4 Cuban Lin(u)x

http://www.amazon.com/Only-Built-4-Cuban-Linx/dp/B000002WU9

2 years on...

[ChunderDownunder]

CowboyNeal (former poll option) announced back in Feb 2007 that Nova was on the way.

So, as far as the GNU army marching into Havana, they're already there. Cuba and RMS are old pals.

Finally

[RAMMS EIN]

Finally, this confirms it.

2009 will be the Year of Linux on the Desktop.

Viva la revolución!

Rather Ironic Considering their Previous Stances

[CodeBuster]

I find this rather ironic considering that up until May of 2008 it was illegal to own a personal computer in Cuba and even now, almost a year later, the prices remain out of reach for ordinary Cubans. This excerpt from a CNet article at the subject really sums it up nicely:

"don't expect to start surfing Cubans' blogs about what it's like to collect a state monthly salary of about $20 anytime soon; most of these PCs will not be allowed connections to the Internet, according to the report. Only trusted officials and state journalists are allowed access to the Web."

What good does it do to have the opportunity to purchase a PC that costs a several times your annual salary and has no Internet access? The only Internet access available to most Cubans will probably be through government controlled public Internet cafes which require ID, have round the clock surveillance, and heavily filtered access at high (although perhaps barely affordable) prices on public PCs. If the failure of socialism ever needed an example then Cuba would be it. I would rather take my chances with expensive health care (thank you very much Michael Moore) then live in ass backwards country like that.

M$ violation of the trade embargo

[SgtChaireBourne]

And what kind of fines and penalties must now be levied against the management of MS for apparently having violated the long standing, but now defunct, trade embargoes?

Re:M$ violation of the trade embargo

[Asic Eng]

According to the article [...] the long-standing U.S. trade embargo against the island makes it difficult for Cubans to get Microsoft software legally and to update it. So in other words: it doesn't look like MS has violated the embargo.

Wait, wait.

[Arancaytar]

If you try to "control ... the informatic process", then it's not really "free software" as such, is it?

Video

[orzetto]

Here is a video of Nova Linux. For the most part it shows the installation process for the GIMP with a package manager that looks like Synaptic. From what I could see in the video, the package repository is hosted by the Cuban IT university. The desktop seems to be Gnome, with some graphical branding here and there.

Any idea of which distro it is based on? It looks like it is Debian-based, possibly Ubuntu-based.

Re:Video

[prograde]

This article indicates that it's based on Gentoo.

Google cache of the uci.cu site, which isn't responding.

Something brewing

[Anonymous Coward]

These are economies that have been ticking along OK and now they have mellowed a little, are starting to take their place on the world's economic and political stages. These governments have been looking for a way to not only save much needed money but find a way to "stick" it to those who hold the keys to their information.

To put it bluntly, with huge organisations like the Chinese and Russian, education and government depts, these could be interesting times for the arguments between OSS and prop software. Face it, if entire governments are willing to stake the running of their local infrastructure on OSS, it might make few more pig-headed westerners think twice before they spout the tired old "if it's free, it's rubbish" claptrap!

How are they using MS?

[SupremoMan]

Doesn't the embargo prohibit MS from selling them software? Unless they pirate it, in which case I can understand why CIA would want a backdoor in Windows.

Re:How are they using MS?

[Kildjean]

please this is american propaganda... they are prolly using windows 2.0, or maybe windows 3.1 and they are tired of not being able to multitask...

Re:Rather Ironic Considering their Previous Stance

[RudeIota]

"I would rather take my chances with expensive health care..." "...then live in ass backwards country..."

While I share the sentiment, I think it is important to point out that neither are mutually exclusive; we in fact can have affordable health care AND live in a democratic, free society. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

What you speak is the truth though -- A prohibitively expensive, typewriting solitaire machine does little good to anyone without a decent connection to the Internet.

If the failure of socialism ever needed an example then Cuba would be it.

Maybe Cuba's failing is not providing enough? I completely disagree with communism, but if a country is going to do it, how about "free" PCs and Internet for everyone? At least people would at least get something from the stripping of their liberty and reward. Heh. :) Then again, Cuba is hardly communist despite being controlled by the PCC...

Re:Rather Ironic Considering their Previous Stance

[orzetto]

[...] even now, almost a year later, the prices remain out of reach for ordinary Cubans.

I would rather take my chances with expensive health care [...]

Criticising "freedom for those who can afford it" as no actual freedom is a well founded criticism. Funny that you would use that one to criticise Cuba, but not your own country—if you had been consistent, you should also have supported socialised health care. Unless you are one of those self-deluding libertarians who actually think that getting rich in a capitalist country is somehow correlated to working hard or being useful to the community, rather than being greedy, being born in the right social environment, and having the right connections.

watch out also for Routers and Switches

[kubitus]

common sense says US intelligence needs to place spyware into items to be found in any network. placing a Trojan Boot Loader in every Router- or Switch Box allows a far cheaper and more directed spying than Echelon. Traffic to and from the spyware will be well hidden in the Internet-traffic to Search engines.

Otherwise: Tierra Y Libertad Y Confidentialitad

Re:Freedom in Cuba

[Anonymous Coward]

So, how much did it cost to have your brain replaced with a pile of rabid hamsters on crack?

Ha

[Anonymous Coward]

Always knew linux was for commies!

redhat

[sluggie]

first russia, now cuba.. linux seem pretty popular among communists...

Re:redhat

[SupremoMan]

I don't think Russia can be considered communist anymore.

Called Nova!

[Chrisq]

It's called Nova! Isn't that Spanish for "doesn't work"

Re:Called Nova!

[Canazza]

actually, one translation of "No Va" is "No Will" (No = no/not/non, Va = will)

How about che...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.imagebucket.org/image-227D_4993ED3A.jpg

First fast draft.. :)

Re:Terrible News! Please read!

[Anonymous Coward]

Female, of the badly drawn hentai style

This isn't offtopic

[Anonymous Coward]

"Babalu is the title of a Cuban song..."

Re:This isn't offtopic

[Petrushka]

... and Desi Arnaz was Cuban. Certainly not off-topic.

Re:This isn't offtopic

[commodoresloat]

Hank Hill: Dale, there are no robots and there are no Cubans.

Dale Gribble: If there are no Cubans, how do you account for Desi Arnaz?

They don't have corporate masters

[Colin Smith]

Our politicians aren't stupid either. The simply can't afford to piss off their backers, so they end up making all kinds of bizarre and unhelpful decisions in order to please them.

I mean... Fuck. We're well into the trillions now. How big is a trillion? 1,000,000,000,000 dollars. It's a lot of paper.

Here's a question for you... How much capital does a well run bank need?

Answer: SFA.

Under the existing fractional reserve system, banks don't need much money, as bizarre as that sounds. With 700 billion dollars and the existing 10% reserve ratio in the US, the American government could have entirely replaced the existing fucked up banks with clean banks able to lend, and the problem would largely have been solved by now. Instead, of allowing them to fail, they are propping up a bunch of what are effectively zombie banks, as the Japanese government also did. I assume they'll continue to prop them up until they can unload their toxic crap on the government.

Why? Well, have a look at the campaign contributions for that answer. I mean, jesus. Geithner; New York Fed. Do you really expect anything to change?

Oh, btw, you and your children are paying for the privilege.
 

Re:They don't have corporate masters

[jez9999]

With 700 billion dollars and the existing 10% reserve ratio in the US, the American government could have entirely replaced the existing fucked up banks with clean banks able to lend, and the problem would largely have been solved by now.

What would happen to the money owed to people who'd been paid with money lent by the existing banks? Or the people who have savings with the existing banks?

Re:They don't have corporate masters

[aoteoroa]

How much is a trillion dollars? According to the CIA world fact book the US Population is 303,824,640 So a trillion dollars is $3291 for every man, woman, child, senior citizen in the country.

Re: Cuba Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

They can call it Cubix!

Re:Its! Its! Not it's!

[Panaphonix]

Thank you!

Not to worry

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has no need to worry. They can claim that the communist country never really paid for the software in the first place, and that as long as they can keep Americans on the hook for billions every year, losing a little island country is no biggie. Mind you, Brazil did the same thing a few years ago, and Russia announced something similar only a few months ago. Not that its a trend mind you, and as I mentioned earlier, so long as the good ole U.S. of A. keeps ponying up billions to the beast, they will be happy.

"launches own linux variation"

[pev]

You could say that "own version of linux is a variation from the standard distribution" or that Cuba "launches own linux variant" but I'm not sure that the combination of the two is quite correct...

Plug : I don't normally like starting grammatical debates as that's a job for people with nothing better in their lives but right now I don't have anything better in my life! If anyone is looking to hire a shit-hot embedded systems engineer, send me an email to ask for my CV...

More diversity at the distro level too.

[DrYak]

One thing I am concerned about is that Linux is a moving target. Will an app developed today work on a distro 10 years from now, without having to rewrite it to match the modern libraries?

The good thing it that nothing will stop distro-makers from packaging several libraries or several generations of them.

In fact most installed Linux around have both QT and GTK2 installed, because these are use by lot of software. As a similar example, during the KDE3-4 transition you're bound to find both QT3 and QT4 installed on lots of machines. Up until recently you had GTK1 and GTK2 installed together because lots of legacy application didn't make the move.

Also if some legacy interface is *that much* popular, newer version will include wrapper code :
- pulse-audio has lot of interface plugins to communicate with applications targeting only ALSA or ESD or ARTSD.
- latest GTK2 version has a GTK1 wrapper for legacy applications
- etc.

So even if Linux is a moving target, its modularity gives you a lot of room for maneuvering.

(Even if I personally think that, once in a while, restarting a project a fresh and including latest input between the original version and now isn't bad. As long as you make your users aware that the new version won't be as good as the old one for the first duration. cf. KDE3 vs KDE4).

The only point where Linux is a moving target is when writting driver code, because you can only have 1 single kernel to target and thus only 1 single API (mostly). For example, you can't (easily) mix 1.x, 2.x and 2.6 driver models.

But that's not what most applications developpers have to worry about.

Cuba Libre?

[denzacar]

Hmm... Cuba Libre seems like a logical choice for this distros name.

Re:Its! Its! Not it's!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come on, you're just being rediculous.

And these sucessful businessmen

[Anonymous Coward]

were sucking at the teat of the US backed president whose wholesale corruption caused the people (the ones whom the government are supposed to be working for) to revolt and throw them out.

When these thieves stole from the public, the public became thieves stealing it back. But it doesn't mean the thieves who stole it in the first place should get it back.

Insurance contracts

[Anonymous Coward]

are not free market assurances. Rather like Free Health Care, they are enforced and enacted by the government as an arbiter.

You aren't free to scream abuse at people

[Anonymous Coward]

so you're not free to be free.

ANYWHERE.

without constraints, freedom is just another word. It is defined by where it is restricted.

Viva la revolucion !!!

[yvesdandoy]

Viva la revolucion !!!

Someone should give Raul Castro a medal...

[Kildjean]

someone should give this guy (Raul Castro) a medal: 1st he brings Cellular use the masses (at $400/usd a month) but hey its progress, before that cubans had to lift a seashelll to simulate talking over the phone or use two cans and a string... 2nd he brings the internet over... Cuba has been in the information age using BBS's till now... using a couple of Galacticomm's Digiboards and Major BBS and a couple of CDTowers, some pr0n cd's you get the idea... And now he is ridding the country of Microsoft Software... I wish Obama did that... ban microsoft and let apple take over... sigh...

Re:Someone should give Raul Castro a medal...

[prefec2]

Ehm, you won't be free when switching from a Microsoft monopoly to an Apple monopoly. So I hope Obama will support free software.

Gentoo-based Linux for Cuba

[prefec2]

There is a nice video on nova on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTXIzaxfox4 It looks like the Cubix is a Gentoo clone. This is really a strange choice for a end-user Linux. While Gentoo might be fun to play with, it is definitely not designed for every tom, dick and harry. However, when all Cubans now start to play with Linux on this level, they will become the future hacker, cracker, and sysadmin elite, while in other countries people get stuck with their toasters and the cryptic toast manual.

Re:Freedom in Cuba

[Kildjean]

yeah i can see where you go with that... Listen bub, when i was 13 yrs old, my best friend's dad managed to bring his old man to Puerto Rico for 2 weeks... I remember he paid a fortune... anyways, when we drove by our largest shopping mall, the old man asked if those cars were for sale, and my friends father explained to him that people could go there and buy whatever they wanted... That old man cried... that is how broken your "shinning star" of government had this old man... I abhor war, and violence, but if the US invaded cuba and took every single castroist from power that and shot them in the head like dogs.. i would support that... that wuld be the shortest war in history, it would prolly last half a day. SO i seriously hope someone hacks your country and fucks it up, so people there can be free.

Re:Freedom in Cuba

[Kildjean]

he is Castro propagadist mostlikely... i would throw him in miami, he wouldnt last 1hr alive.

Re:Its! Its! Not it's!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmmm...had too much coffee this morning?

Chill out. It's a typical typo, probably.
Did you ever even think to consider other possibilities, other than the one that instantly popped into your overloaded brain circuits? :-)
It's not a nuclear launch code or something...

Geez, talk about an out of control control freak...:-)

in communist cuba..

[reed]

In Communist Cuba, *you* control operating system!

Future news . . . Cuba gets a donation

[walterbyrd]

Future News: Msft, along with Bill and Melinda Fund, charitably donate thousands of windows PCs to Cuban schools, and Cuban government offices. Shortly after that, Cuba decides that the Linux plan was un-workable.

My vote goes to...

[Ratface]

Cuba librux

Re:If we are voting, I vote for Castrix...

[Elektroschock]

cool

coherence?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is curious to see the word "free" associated with "Cuba".

difficult != impossible

[SgtChaireBourne]

[...] the long-standing U.S. trade embargo against the island makes it difficult for Cubans to get Microsoft software legally

difficult is not quite the same as making it impossible or nearly impossible to get the software legally, nor does it have any mention of who is breaking the embargo. IIRC, M$ has tended to go via intermediaries in cases like that.

So, no, the article does not clear up the question of how M$ violated the embargo.

I bet Stallman is so proud

[MrRobahtsu]

Freedom (his idea of it anyway) will finally be getting proper enforcement.

So, it's called...

[russotto]

...Red Cigar Linux And given Cuba's respect for intellectual property, I assume that Tux wearing a green cap and smoking a Havana would be a perfectly acceptable logo.

Hypocrits

[Fdisk81]

It wasn't until just a couple of years ago that computers and other electronics were banned from the island; regular citizens have no access to the Internet to begin with and nearly every computer in that whole country is running a pirated copy of Windows to begin with. Even though it's not necessarily a negative thing to make this type advance in technology for any country, this is little more than another publicity stunt by the Cuban government to get on its soviet era soap box and talk smack about the United States. Reuters keeps falling for it, like it has been since the 70s. I'm Cuban; unless you've lived there, you can't have an idea of how Machiavellian they are.

CubanOS

[Anonymous Coward]

How about CubanOS?

All they need now is...

[XB-70]

Having been there a number of times, I can vouch when I say that all the Cubans need now are electricity and computers...

On a side note, in my last trip there (fall 2007), I noticed a HUGE Chinese presence. There are Chinese flags flying at major infrastructure projects (power generation and oil refineries). As I was boarding my aircraft, a whole contingent of Chinese Military & Diplomatic personnel were disembarking from an Air Canada flight and were greeted by Cuban Military brass. The Chinese are heavily involved in a number of aspects of the regime. It's not a wonder that the Cuban have copied the Chinese approach to operating systems.

Kinda a good argument against free trade.

[tjstork]

If every country is actually capable of building and maintaining their own operating systems, with all of their complexity, I would tend to think that it is probably safe from a consumer perspective to dispatch with the idea that some countries can make some consumer goods more than others, and let every nation make its own manufactured goods. Cuba with its own Linux? Why not. Viva la Fidel at boot time, but I don't want any cars, toys or consumer goods imported into the USA.

Before Cubuntu and Castrix

[aquatone282]

. . . there was Marxix and Lenix.

names

[Anonymous Coward]

Cherix or Librix

You got that right...

[gosand]

I remember when Farenheit 9/11 came out .... I was in a video store renting something, and two guys in line were talking about it. One of them said "I wouldn't watch that commie bastard's movie!"

I really wanted to tell him that I saw it and it had nothing to do with Communism... but if someone is stupid enough to make that statement, there isn't much I can say to convince them. I am sure he wasn't referring to ACTUAL communism, or even had any idea what that is. He was being a a good little jingoist.

Re:You got that right...

[badkarmadayaccount]

I though paper ignited at 451 F, not ~1 F. *shrug*

From a Linux guy from Cuba....

[oriolcuba]

Three years a go, i was between the few appointed to the "National Free-Software Transition Technical Group". Its all about politics in the end.. nothing about the software, NOVA is a lab experiment, a toy, never tested/ just ripped from ubuntu / knoopix a couple of cosmetics changes like a star screen and here we go..!! lets move the world and the news with lies.. (again). In a country with NO free internet access, (we had a huge squid denying almost everything...) what is this all about? there are other stolen_distros inside Cuba, like caiman (1) The whole point is "we did something!!!" by the way... ALL the software INSIDE nova is Gentoo based... just copied / compiled / served from UNITED STATES!!! not a single line of "local_code"... I voted for DEBIAN when the debate was a about choosing a distro, but the government prefer to tell the lie.. make the story .. so decide to go for Gentoo, copying from other wana_be_communist distros like UTUTO from argentina. Just another castro-style lie to enforce the moral and achievements of the jail island. Here is the link to LINUX CUBA... here is what people and Linux users in Cuba really think about "nova".. ;) (1)http://listas.softwarelibre.cu/pipermail/linux-l/2009-February/thread.html#102887

Re:Rather Ironic Considering their Previous Stance

[joedoc]

What makes the entire story laughable is the fact that the Cuban people are far too busy trying to simply survive in Castro's "worker's paradise." The idea that using Linux on the few available computers on the island is some kind of advancement means nothing when eating is your primary daily goal.

You also mentioned their "health care." All one has to do is spend five minutes here to see what the average Cuban's medical care consists of.

There isn't a single person posting here would would find this life acceptable. Yet people continue to worship Castro and Che as visionaries except for the murderers and thugs that they are.

Cuba Libre Re:....I vote for Castrix

[Geste]

If we are voting, I vote for Castrix

-- Terry

try "Cuba Libre"

Social != Socialism

[geoffrobinson]

There is usually a difference between and -ism.

Just because you do something communally or socially doesn't make you a socialist. That requires coercion.

In Soviet Cuba...

[nsteinme]

...Linux makes variations of you!

Only in the US socialism is a term of abuse.

[jotaeleemeese]

The rest of the world is far more cool headed about the term.

Even countries like Chile and Spain, where the Socialist party was actually made illegal, can deal with the "misfortune" of being governed by socialists.

Cuba didn't targetted the US, the USSR did.

[jotaeleemeese]

Kennedy dealt directly with the Russians, not with Fidel Castro, during the missile crisis.

This was akin to the US placing missiles in Turkey (a move that was stopped in reciprocation). Nobody was claiming that Turkey was threatening the USSR...

Re:Cuba didn't targetted the US, the USSR did.

[Ardipithecus]

Castro wanted the Russians to shoot, at which point they realized he was crazy.

The refugees are all Palestinian

[jotaeleemeese]

That says pretty clearly who removed people from where ....

Re:The refugees are all Palestinian

[shutdown -p now]

No, that only says who is stronger in the conflict, not who is right. The same thing goes for casualty figures - that more Palestinians die in the war than Israelis are a testament to how efficient IDF is, and how disorganized the Palestinian militias are - not an indicator that one side is in the moral right somehow.

If a weak guy tries to punch a strong guy without much effect, and gets a thorough thrashing in return, it doesn't mean that the strong guy is wrong, and the weak guy is right. For all we know, the weak guy is just a racist asshole. At worst, you could complain about "disproportionate response"; but even then some would say that a good thrashing is more educational, and sets an example for all other racist assholes out there, preventing more violence in the end.

And how is the US going to enforce that?

[jotaeleemeese]

I know for certain that companies with headquarters in the US deal with Cuba.

But since their branches in other countries don't have a legal responsibility to report these transactions to the local government (and obviously don't believe in US extraterritorial laws) they do business with Cuba, they just keep quiet about it.

Height of irony

[WebCowboy]

...that the worlds most repressive governments are the ones most receptive to using Free/Open Source Software.

Of course, as nice as it would be to think these regimes are adopting Linux because of their new-found interest in freedom and openness, it has more to do with sticking it to the USA. They don't want their "glorious fatherlands" to depend so heavily on a product from those evil capitalists.

I think its great to see an increased adoption of Linux and other Free software, but when it comes to adoption of such technologies by China and Cuba I have some concern. Neither regime has shown any serious concern for the preservation of freedoms and rights, so what makes anyone think they would show any healthy respect for the GPL or any other Free license?

For all the innovation and technology they will freely receive in the creation of their own Linux-based OSes will there always be willingness for them to contribute back any innovations they make themselves? If a popular feature or enhancement is developed in China or Cuba will the source be withheld by their dictatorships due to "security reasons", causing a "communist fork"?

Furthermore, what if closed source material is introduced by communist government developers in blatant disregard of the rules, and the now-tainted source is the subject of a SCO-like lawsuit? Given the track record of them ripping off proprietary western designs in the past, I wouldn't be surprised. I know that there are probably a lot of Free software developers that reside in China and maybe even Cuba and it hasn't yet been a problem...but now Linux is "Official" and the governments will be involved in developments more significant than before.

Software piracy is rampant in Communist countries, and Free software like Linux can be pirated too you know--it's just that its license and copyrights are violated in a different way than for closed software like MSFT Windows. I hope the FSF is as vigilant in keeping these new fans of Linux in line as the BSA is in trying to combat piracy of commercial software like Windows.

as if internationalization wasn't hard enough

[ILongForDarkness]

Do we really need another distro for each country? I tried to send you the file but my France OS doesn't have the same patch levels as your Russian OS, or better yet, why does my France OS have support for Czech characters, or if it doesn't why do Czech people send me files using their character codes in them ... I hate to say it but there is something to be said for a lack of choice. People complain MS has 6 versions of Win 7, well how many versions of Linux are there?

Re: SiG

[maxume]

That xkcd doesn't have all that much to do with privacy, it is about security.

Really, encryption is a great way to increase privacy, as there aren't a lot of people that are going to beat you with a wrench to find out what kind of sex you like to have, or to steal your credit card info (because there are easier, cheaper ways). But if you lose your laptop (theft, stupid, etc.), your info stays private.

It's like most other security, the costs need to be weighed against the benefits (most people lock their homes, but not with locks that will stop a sledge (and they have unbarred windows)).

Free people? I'll take five.

[Anonymous Coward]

What? Free people? I'll take five.

Where do I sign up?

Nope.

[jotaeleemeese]

Nova is not a common Spanish word (the word you mean is "nueva", the masculine would be "nuevo").

Nevertheless Nova is latin, so it is widely understood anyway. In this case the accent is in the first syllable ("nO-va" ), while in the sentence "no va" you have 2 accents, one on each word.

You can play with both, but no Spanish speaker would confuse one with each other.

In communist cuba...

[w0mprat]

the source opens YOU....

Examples to follow...

[Anonymous Coward]

In more ways than one...

I do believe that the US should do this too. However, I'm no fool. I know why China, Russia, and now Cuba is doing this...

"Getting greater CONTROL over the informatic process is an important issue"

Daemons

[linuxpyro]

So you think FreeBSD would work better for them?

May I suggest a name?

[MagusSlurpy]

How about Commix?

Re:May I suggest a name?

[galanom]

or Cubix ?

Cuba Libre!

[foregather]

It's perfect! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba_libre

Re:Tux cant handle GOD!

[aqk]

Simple test:
If you can get access to them, ask the following -

1. Bill Gates: Do you believe in God?
save answer.

2. Linus Torvalds: Do you believe in God?
save answer.
..
3. You patriotic Americans, check your answers and do you govern yourselves accordingly.

-

Re:Tux cant handle GOD

[aqk]

I agree.
Linux is essentially atheist and un-American.
If you can manage to buttonhole them, ask these two charming chaps:
- Bill Gates: Do you believe in God?

- Linus Torvalds: Do you believe in God?

Then, Patriotic Americans, check your answers. And do you govern yourselves accordingly.

As a Canadian, I'm now planning a 2-week vacation to Cuba next month. I hope to see some Brits and Europeans there...
Enjoy your Evil-Empire Windows, Gringos. Mwahaaa haa haa!
..

-

It's Castro

[Anonymous Coward]

Ask someone who came from Cuba what a neat guy Castro is, then you will understand why the U.S. doesn't like the Cuban government. If living under Castro is not so bad, why are so many people desperately leaving Cuba to come live in the U.S.? Go to Miami and talk to the ex-Cubans about the Cuban government.

It;s a Gentoo based distro.

[Anonymous Coward]

The distribution is called Nova, it's Gentoo based but has a binary repository. The project site is www.nova.uci.cu (Spanish)